Photos: Vivian Zink/ABC Studios ©2009 ABC Studios.
Criminal Minds spoiler thread for "To Hell and Back" starring Joe Mantegna, Thomas Gibson, Paget Brewster, Shemar Moore, A.J. Cook, Matthew Gray Gubler and Kirsten Vangsness.
** Beware! Comments will contain spoilers. **
*** This is the original spoiler thread from when the episode first aired. Feel free to add additional comments after rewatching it tonight ***
309 comments:
1 – 200 of 309 Newer› Newest»I'm usually looking forward to the finales... but I'm not sure if I'll be watching to be honest!...
I'm really looking forward to these 2 episodes. A GOOD season finally. I'm a bit worried has to find out who his the agent that his in peril... Hope it's not my favorite character... Rossy
Season four was the best season yet (the character of Hotch has especially developed superbly) ... until the news of our greatest writers leaving and then the fear that one of our main characters may not be asked to return. The last two episodes have been already bittersweet and just like BlueCurl I'm not sure if I want to watch the season finale. It sounds and looks really good but ... frankly I don't want to see one of our beloved cast members being killed off. The departure of Mandy/Gideon was sad enough but Mandy wanted to leave. None of our current cast members wants to leave. They all stand 100% behind the show and so do we, the Criminal Minds fans on this board. This show has turned into a big success. The ratings are consistently high and the quality of the show is second to none other crime show on TV. Definitely no need to change anything or jeopardize the recipe (which includes the cast, the whole cast, as one of the main ingredients. I am waiting for some good news so I can truly enjoy the season finale, buy the Season 4 DVD set (as done before with Season 1,2 & 3) and look forward to Season 5.
Thank you CM producers, writers, ACTORS, other cast, and staff for a wonderful Season 4 and PLEASE don't take anything or anyone away.
While I absolutely hate cliffhangers and cannot stand the thought of anyone leaving the show - it's perfect now, I still "need" to see the show tonight. It will be very hard to watch the end.
This show his THE BEST I've seen so far on TV and to know that there might be one of are favorite character leaving the show makes me worry. But I think we have to be as many watchers tonight has possible to watch this season finally so CBS won't get another excuse to cut again on the cast, writers or the tv show itself. I love criminal minds and I shure WANT IT TO RUN FOR MANY YEARS.
Amen on that Vali!
I just don't want to see one actor in particulair go! It just won't cut it for me anymore and I won't hang on hoping for another "fix" from an episode in the future. I have watched many shows before and I never got that fix back again after they changed the concept or after a leaving character that I liked most! And I stopped watching them all. The first 4 seasons of CM are all a highlight and I don't want to ruin that by hanging on to long!
I am so lost here....I haven't even had a chance to even watch last week's episode yet. I am really in the dark about the upcoming cliffhanger.
I agree with the post that this past season really was the best yet. I was one of the fans that swore that the show's days were numbered when MP left.
I just wanted to THANK YOU for that handsome pix of yummy JM!! That man really is take your breath away, strikingly handsome. Wow! In the few interviews I've seen, he seems incredibly sweet. He has been the best part of the show for me. I disliked his character at first. (Watching the rerun last week on A&E reminded me why). But the writers have brought his character a long way. Although he could be a serial killer in an episode and I'd still be thrilled!
I can't wait to watch this. I'm really worried who the victim's going to be. I really hope it's not Reid(not because I'm tired of Reid angst,I'm not.)But I don't want that maniac to get anywhere near him. I feel sorry for anybody that gets in that creeps way.
This was a great season and I hope that it's just a bad rumor that one of the cast members is leaving. This is one of the few shows that I love the entire cast.
I still keep wondering why the critics hate a wonderful show like this.
I can't wait for this episode but unfortunately I can't see it till fri so gonna have to avoid this thread so I won't get spoiled even though its gonna be impossible!!!
I will watch the finale because all the team will be there...I love CM and my favorite character is Hotch although I also like ALL the rest of the team. I am sure the finale is going to be great and we will have a great season 5 ! (as long as all ALL the team is back!!!!!!)
CM rocks, happy viewing tonight to everyone!
Where does the rumor come from??? it will be so bad if one characters leaves now...
first of all, i'm 99.9% confident that no one's leaving, unless they've managed to keep it on the extreme D.L. if anyone were even thinking of thinking of leaving, we'd be the first to know. it's probably just a rumor that's sprung up due to this whole agent-in-peril ploy, which i am also very skeptical of. i don't mean to be a kill-joy, but after all the hype they gave to mayhem and the possibility of one of our beloved team dying, and it ended up turning out to be kate joyner, and hotch's ear ringing for two epidoes, well, i don't think i'm putting much weight on that. but don't get me wrong, i'm PUMPED for this one :)
I agree with my fellow sisters and am feeling bitter sweet about the season finale. The episode looks amazing...but I am afraid of the outcome of the rumored leaving cast memeber..and not by there will! This show has encountered many changes...but they have been postive changes because the family dynamic is so strong. So even with the two cast members leaving and two new ones coming in...the show still maintains its greatness. Plus those two cast members left on there own terms....they were not forced out! This show is a rare gem, so please let it be...please god do not let anyone die off tonight!!! Again...this is going to be one hell of an episode....but if they make someone leave the show aaginst there will...thenit shall be my last show. I don't want that, and neither does anyone else on this blog and in the entire cast of CM! We all stick together...and it should always be that way!
So I pray that tonight will shock the hell out of us all....but we will see all our beloved characters for the next season!! Oh, and I definatly want to see Hotch kick some Unsub ass tonight!!
Pray with me all xoxo!
I hope the finale is great, but I hope the show isn't ruined by a cheap ratings stunt and the loss of a major character.
I can't believe it's finally Wednesday!
I'm a little anxious over tonight's episode, what with all the other CBS shows basically having one or more characters being killed off or disappearing...
I hope everyone who is on this show stays on, because I don't think I could handle another show cutting someone out.
::sigh:: 3 more hours to go.
i can't wait.
I can't wait to see the finale, we better not lose anyone! I want them all back next season especially my fav Hotch and Garcia!
Abby
I DONT WANT TO WORK TONIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! GRRRRRRRR
Unlike last week, I am NOT coming on here and reading a thing before I can watch the finale! I don't want anything spoiled! I am watching it as soon as I get home before sleep!
Lose any cast member and it will be the last CM episode I ever watch. The fans have made it perfectly clear they love ALL seven characters. Let's hope the episode gives us what we want: great script, great acting and action and we can look forward to Season 5.
OMG! Its starting!!!! Two hours of the best show EVER! Holy crap! it's Dr Gallant from Er! AWESOME!
Reid: The Royal Canadian Mounted Police......
*Sighs* Who knew saying "The RCMP" could sound so sexy! lol!
Okay, totally grossed out already! I still wan't to keep watching, but so far, it's pretty sick!...
Ok Chris, you have cured me from ever eating pork products again. And that was the only meat I ate. Thanks a lot.
1/2 hour in and I am NOT loving it at all. There is no clever subtlety that we are used to on this show, Just gratuitous ookiness.
i have 2and half hours tell it comes on. i will watch first hour of american idal. then flip back and forth when they break. i am more a criminal mind fan then american idal fan. i just watch it when it gets to the final.
so far I'm pretty disappointed. I feel like I'm being treated as a dense audience member who needs everything spelled out multiple times.
we aren't idiots. we understood the first time the pigs were shown what was happening. Hell, we understood it from the promo's.
eh.... maybe it's just because I am just catching bits and pieces (no pun intended) between work, but not impressed so far
Hmmm,WOAH! Interesting turn of events..... I wonder how this is going to work out. Who they found, isn't the unsub, probably the unsub's relative or something...Wait! OMG! remember in the beginning, when the unsub removed something from the victims neck.... I am pretty sure there is something to do with it. I learned about something similar in biology, I can't remember it for the life of me!
Yay! Hotch said RCMP!, sorry, it's the canadian in me! lol!
I can't believe Chris Mundy wrote the first part of the two parter. It was horrible. I know we are supposed to say what we didn't like about it but I didn't like any of it. It just was really bad.
Whoa! Holocaust flashbacks anyone! Leave it to Reid to figure out why there are no bodies!
I think I'm gonna like the second part better! The first part was a little off. The storyline was good, but something was just off. I can't put my finger on it!
I get what you are saying about it being off. It is not that it was terrible but it was missing something. Ed's episode started so lets see if he bails it out.
Holy Mother of Bluff!
is anyone else having a black screen and terrible siren-like sounds???
No, what station are you watching it on?
Hahahaha! I just saw the RCMP!
Never eating pork or pork products again. No swine flu for me thanks to Chris.
How does Reid know so much about the digestion timetables of pigs eating people!!
Enough of the pigs already. This episode has not captured my attention as it should have and as I expected it to. It seems disjointed. I also didn't like the photography in the interrogation between Hotch and Hightower.
I think it's feels disjointed because they used a different writer for each episode. They should have just stuck with one or collaberated on the whole thing entirley.
The drawing Reid is holding has the same eye on it in red that the unsub in Omnivore used. The eye!
Holy crap. It is Hotch in danger
Foyett is back.
HOLY CRAP! I think you might be right!
does anyone know where the episode "to hell and back" was filmed? the farm looks like a place where I did an independant film two years ago. please let me know at sandee_rager@yahoo.com
if anyone knows
Sandee
Chills when Reid said: "Do you ever get the feeling a case isnt going to end well?"
Considering C. Thomas Howell is listed in the credits I would guess the ending is not going to please me at all!
I am not watching right now... but if you are right and it is Hotch in danger that is going to freak me out until the S5! (since he seems to be the one TPTB have been gunning for).
LEAVE HOTCH ALONE :(
Omg experiments using people to try to cure that scum. Poor Garcia crying. Horrible. This just sucks on so many levels.
Kelly, the victim, is so smart the way she is trying to connect with the mentally challenged brother. She is really strong and smart. Hope it keeps her alive.
Reid really does sense mending doom. Morgan couldn't take being on the farm anymore. This hit him hard.
The second part is definately more engaging than the first hour.
I thought Morgan's need to leave the farm and go help search the woods to be really out of character for him. And he skimped on comforting the man. Just seemed to give him the dog tags and a brief acknoledgement. That isn't like him.
Rossi is upset that since the para is incapable of actually committing the crimes himself that he might not be prosecuted.
OH MY GOD. NO.
Foyett comes back and shoots Hotch while Hotch says the end!
I will never watch this show again!
EVER
OMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMG! I thought the ending wasn't going to be that eventful, but then....... ARRGGGHHHHHHHH! I'll be very pissed if He is killed! I though he was going to go home to see Jack! Boy was I wrong!
That was stupid. Sorry but it was slow mostly boring and the end wasn't really that edgy. Stupid and they should kinda be ashamed. :done:
Lee
that was the worst thing EVER
Nooooooooooo!
Nooooooo1
NOOOO. no no no no no no nonononono NO! this is NOT happening. when hotch first started monologuing it made it seem like he was going to pull a gideon, but then that freak from omnivore showed up! oh nooo i KNEW it! hotch is my favorite :( ohhh i cant wait until next season... this is not good. :( i REALLY hope they're just messing with us... this time looked convince though, not like mayhem. ohhh. i need to go try and not have a heart attack. :(
I am going to come visit this comment chain after all the negativity is gone. If you could do better, be my guest!
Insensitive to sensationalize the Robert Pickton pig farm murders on a fictional show.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Pickton
noooo....this can't be true...if it is then CM just ended for me tonight.
I have nothing else to say about this.
"Oh. NO! Crap."
that was basically my reaction at the end... but we all knew that the omnivore would come back.
OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG!!!!!!!!! I CANNOT HANDLE THIS.....NO NO NO NO!!! I'M CRYING....is that normal?
If Hotch goes....I go too:( But there is a light at the end of the tunnle.....Foyett only kills if the person speaks....Hotch didn't say anything!! PLEASE let him be ok...PLEASE!!!!
Holy crap.....I need more tissues and a chill pill!!!!
I liked this episode! I don't know what was so bad about it, as far as being choppy or whatever. I thought they did a good job especially showing how, once there was a connection made w/ Lucas, the victim wanted to protect him. It didn't seem Stockholm syndromy at all, just... And the ending, Oh My Heck! Makes me sad, but the blackscreen means there's the possibility he'll be okay. Wow.
But, I must've missed last week - who was the guy at the end???
To all of you Hotch lovers...I'm so so sorry...I would have never guessed that Hotch was the one in danger...and it didn't come until the very end too. I was screaming my head off...I literally was having an apoplectic seizure in my room. I totally missed the first half of the two hour season finale...so can't compare.
Hotchner, not like this. I'm going to be bummed for a very long time.
I just want to come back and make something clear. I don't think this episode was "stupid" because I'm unhappy about Hotch possibly being killed off. I think this episode is stupid because it was POORLY written, didn't capture my attention in any way shape or form, the acting was "ok" it was just bad. I'm so disappointed in Criminal Minds right now. As you know I couldn't stop watching because I love Reid so much, but it's going to become Baywatch for me...just watching for the eye candy.
Dumb,
Lee
I want to become a vegetarian after this. I am STILLLLLLLL NAUSEOUS. I felt bad for everyone all around, EXCEPT that evil brother.
And I may say? Hotch SO KNEW that the guy was coming.
He was not even shocked, and even had a small smirk.
I just recently started watching this series again. I stopped watching it after Gideon left. I didn't care for Hotch and now that I finally get back into it, they gotta ruin it for me again.
Why?? C'mon they gotta do better than that.
I keep thinking of Hotch pounding the table in "Seven Seconds" and glaring down Unsubs... smiling on the phone with Jack.... complimenting Reid on his "physics magic"... protecting the team....
S5 is either going to be a very infuriating or very relieving Season Premiere!
I thought it was very well written. And remember, Elle got shot at the end of the season 1 finale, and she survived. Granted, the Omnivore is very adept at what he does, but I have faith that Hotch will survive this. And if he doesn't, I will be heartbroken because I feel like he is the backbone of the team. Still, the show is amazing. We didn't think it could survive Mandy Patinkin's exodus, and it has done more than just survive. Season 4 was, without a doubt, the best season yet. The writing was superb, and the acting was great. The only episode I felt was a throwaway was Demonology ... and that one wasn't horrible. Sharif Atkins showed how amazing an actor he is, by the way. I love his work! I will be a nail-biting summer as we await word of Hotch's condition. I expected the Omnivore to go after Morgan - this was totally unexpected.
It's obvious the production company runs this blog (I mean seriously, everybody knows this isn't your typical "fan" blog)...With that in mind, it's important to take what they post and 'hint' at seriously. With their asking people to write CBS in the CM writers blog and the hints that writers and a major character is getting the axe, we should pay attention. Even the "suggested" letter to CBS says, "ESPECIALLY Thomas Gibson,"....so yeah....something is up....looks like TG is gone. What a damn shame.
Write! Send to Les Moonves on down. This show must NOT be screwed around with. Why mess with success? Leave it to corporate television.
wow.
Whoo on Garcia's cape and the Wizard of Oz login on Mason's comp. Whoo on Prentiss' quips.
as for the rest?
color me disappointed.
one of the reasons that I've been such a huge supporter of this show has been the writing. I've always said that this show had a talent for making it tough to predict what will happen, throwing in twists that were both inspired and imaginative.
As soon as we met Mason, I had predicted to some of my fellow fanatics exactly how the people died and why.
Around 10.30 it was plain as day that Mason was going to die by Hightower's hand.
and with all the hoopla surrounding this season ender, along with C Thomas Howell being in the credits, it was pretty obvious that Hotch's life would be on the line in some shape or form. (there was a slight chance Morgan's badge would be used to garner more victims type plot-line)
Really? After a season of mostly awesome episodes, how could you give us this craptastic piece of trash?
the season cliffhangers have always been superb in the past.
this time? not so much
major thumbs down.
I think it shows how much the producers and CBS "value" their fans ... Some stuff just isn't entertaining but plain tasteless. It was a great season but the end killed it. Not the show I wanna watch.
personally, i loved the episode. i cried at the end, and truly thought it was fabulously done.
Is there any confirmation Thomas Gibson is leaving? or are they trying to trick us?
OMG!!!!!!!!!! HOTCH GOT SHOT!!!!!!
I hope he survives because I would hate for the show to lose a character.
As a Detroiter, I think the writers did a good job and did their research at looked at the maps when writing this episode. A lot of actual Detroit streets were named.
Cass Ave.
Third
Martin Luther King Jr. Blvd
West Grand Blvd.
Hancock
So, yes, these streets actually exsist. They mentioned the Blue Water Bridge, the boarder crossing between Port Huron, MI and Sarnia, Ontario, Canada.
The part where Reid says that pigs will eat anything is going to make me think twice about eating ribs for Memorial Day.
But this is the CM season finale and CM season finales don't end peacefully so we will be wondering for the next three months if Hotch survives.
I would just like to say, at this juncture, that the women on this show could not possibly be made of more awesome. The girls (and Rossi) don't get enough love.
And somewhat randomly, Morgan should be eating Jello always.
One other thing.....I thought the writing was okay, but the acting was uninspired. They all, as in every one of them, phoned this one in. BUT, maybe now we all know why. A pissed off cast and crew leaves a show all dull and blue.
OMG! What an ending.! Poor Hotch. He should have heeded Reid's feeling that it wasn't going to end well. I'm not going to believe Hotch is gone. It faded to black with the gunshot,unlike on CSI when Warrick died, because they showed it and how brutal it was. So I won't believe until I see. The case was so gruesome. I'm glad I wasn't eating at the time!
LOL while I agree if Hotch is dead / TG tossed, I will quit watching CM (this goes way beyond Mandy leaving - he volunteered to go) ; I must say it is a little premature to say the producers don't value the fans simply because a favorite character is put in danger.
If he is dead - I will agree with you that they are jerks, etc. But let's give them until S5 before we condemn them to being fed to the pigs, shall we?
So who was it that shot Hodge?
My head is reeling... and not in the heart-pounding, breath-stopping, thrill-ride way that it usually is when CM ends.
I don't know what to think or what to say...well, actually...I do.
BRING HOTCH BACK
Hotch put his gun down and walked away from it to pour his drink. It was obvious that it wasn't him that fired the shot.
Foyet told him that he should have made a deal and then shot him. We knew we would be losing an actor this season by I was hoping that it wasn't Thomas Gibson.
OK, THAT WAS A SEASON FINALLY. Those of you who were deceived, look at it this way, can't please everyone ;o). I really loved it and thought it was well written and the actors did a WONDERFULL job. Now, I'm feeling all twisted inside because of the end. IF THOMAS GIBSON DOESN'T SHOW UP FOR NEXT SEASON CBS HIS MAKING A BIG MISTAKE. LETTERS WILL START DROPING. STOP CHANGING THINGS THAT WORK WELL. All these actors play very well together. I've been a Joe Mantegna fan for a very long long time and will always be, but on this show I love ALL THE ACTORS. This show needs his whole team. Also, has a canadian I was flattered by the way the writters thought about us. Thank you to Ed Bernero & Chris Mundy for the great scripts.
Who shot Hotch?
what was that?!!!??? You can't be serious??!!!? CM is killing of its main character??!!? Who lost it on CM??!!!?
Will not be back next season! Worse season ending!
Abby
Okay I saw the Foyet thing coming when Omnivore ended and he escaped. I told my mom "watch at the end of the season they will bring him back have him attack Hotch in some way and then pull another cliffhanger on us" and as soon as Hotch walked into his house I went "Oh here comes Foyet!!" and what do you know...
The episode overall was one of the weakest of this season. I think this would mark the first time this season I didn't go "wow...what an amazing episode I must watch it again" once it was over. I really don't feel like going to watch it over again
The writing was terrible...I hope this is not the calibre of writers we are left with next season as they seemed to have fired a crap load of writers already. If so whatever redemption work they did this season, after the crap they threw our way in season 3, will all be washed away.
But to be fair I think maybe this was just a way to get a bit more ratings by doing a 2 hour finale when this show could've easily been condensed into 1 hour or maybe even 1.5 hour would've worked better
Not because a fav character was put in danger but because it was stated that we'd lose one of the top cast members. Just like several great writers (who have given us the best episodes) have been canned now one of the main characters has to leave (or at least that has been seriously considered). Since the show has been doing so well (with high ratings) and none of the writers or cast members have voiced the wish to leave I wonder whether those decisions have been motivated by greed. It certainly doesn't strike me as a wise decision.
One question: why using "anonymous?"
Ed Bernero is a big old SOB. This makes me so very happy that Washington Field didn't get picked up. It's what he deserves for killing Hotch. (I'm not blaming the network, to me this stinks of coming from the man in charge of the show--after all, he cut five writers, including the BEST WRITER CM HAS EVER HAD--Andrew Wilder.)
Plus, all the hints we had on the blog? Can mean only one thing--TG isn't coming back and it's obviously not of his choosing. He wants to stay on the show and do the job he loves doing and that, I must say, he does a damned fine job on. He's the best actor they have on the show. (Okay, yes, he's my fave and I'm biased. But it's true!)
This was a fairly good ep--nothing overly special (okay, other than it was set in Canada. *G*). And thank you for not having the RCMP in red serge.
However that ending? Was the cheapest of cheap tricks--the sign of somebody who can't write without using cliches. It's an insutlt to every single Criminal Minds fan out there.
How could anyone even THINK of killing Hotch--he is the heart and soul of the team.
I can damn well guarantee you that if Hotch doesn't make it, then I will no longer watch the show. I can't. And if he's no longer on the show, I hope it tanks after next season. (Some small part of me hopes that TPTB will wise the hell up and not do the stupidest thing ever in the history of CM.)
I'm so angry right now, I can barely bloody type...and it's probably a really GOOD thing that I can't be in the chat tomorrow because I'd be very tempted to give Bernero (he doesn't deserve to be called "Mister"--treating the fans like this is inexcusable) another few pieces of my mind.
And to have this as a cliffhanger? Another cheap trick. Apparently that's all that Bernero has left--cheap tricks.
I love this show and it will not be the same show without TG/Hotch...and it saddens me that we even had to see that scene tonight.
I really hope I'm wrong and that we don't lose TG. That would be epic fail.
I agree with Mike Donovan above. Corporate television has become a garbage can of reality TV that may save lots of $$$$ but offers up cheap, embarrassing television. CRIMINAL MINDS is obviously not an inexpensive show to make, but it's doing well against tough competition. A great show with great writers like Bernero, Mundy; great actors like Mantegna, Gibson, on and on...hell...it's the ensemble cast that makes CM the show that it is. If Thomas Gibson is gone - scream, LOUDLY. He is understated, to be sure, but make no mistake, he is an integral part of CM. Period.
The finale? OK, but I agree, again, that there are factors possibly working against the best chemistry right now. They are professionals, but they are also human.
The first hour was just a total rip off of the Canada Pig Case and the last scene with Hotch getting shot was just bad writing. It wasn't a cliffhanger. Hotch had no gun and Foyet did. It was a cheap way of axing a main character and Thomas Gibson deserved better than this crap and I am not a Hotch fan.
Can someone summarize the last hour of the show for me? Half way through the TV froze and the cable company said they were having "intermittent problems" and I missed the whole last half of the show.
I'm trying to calm down enough to make this post somewhat presentable. Of course I'm absolutley sickened that my fav character seems to be on the way out, just like the writers and against fan wishes, but this goes beyond that.
I simply thought it was a poor episode. The camera work in Hotch's interrogation was brutal and the storyline too predictable.
I watch this show for 2 reasons:
1) Hotch: character and actor are superb week in, week out
2) storylines that make me think and are NOT obvious after the first 10mins.
Sorry CM, but you failed to deliver on pt.2 and if Hotch has been killed off you can find yourself another fan after failing on pt1.
Boo. If they don't bring Hotch back, I'm done with the show.
Will someone please remind me who had a grudge against Hotch? Who was the shooter-from previous episode? Reading his note to fans on this blog, Thomas Gibson says he looks forward to many episodes. What's going on?
I love Hotch. And Thomas Gibson. *sniffle*
OKay, I have now seen the whole thing and I have to say, if Hotch/Thomas Gibson doesn't return next season, I will seriuosly think about not watching the show.
The Garcia moments were wonderful. Reid's comment about getting the feeling that a case wouldn't turn out okay prophetic.
Mason, the unsub was super creepy, especially since he used his poor, mentally challenged brother in his sick, disgusting game.
All those lives lost and ruined. Terrible.
And the end, EDWARD ALLAN BERNERO HOW COULD YOU DO THAT TO US!
I'm not going to lie, I was shaking and at the verge of tears at the end. During the show I was happy and pleased with it. Being a Canadian I was extremely happy we were included in this episode, and I recognized that the case was loosely based on the Pickton Case from BC (Loosely only on the pig farm put, but still). It seemed pretty good, until the end.
There is no show without TG/Hotch. Honestly. He's what keeps it together, and one of the main reasons I watch. He is an amazing actor, which should leave on his own terms, not the show's.
I'm /very/ /very/ disappointed. It just took a turn for the worst :(
I really doubt TPTB are that stupid. The character of Hotch is the solidifying agent of the team, and getting rid of him would be a big mistake. Let's do a rundown here. How many people have been shot on the show and not died? Gideon got grazed in the freaking piolet, Elle got shot and survived (although she left), and Garcia even got shot and was fine, and she's still around.
There have been rumors, but no solid proof, of someone leaving. I would assume the first to leave would be Rossi, as he's the newest back and JM probably gets paid more (or so I would assume).
Seriously, guys. Calm down.
Also, I actually liked the finale. It wasn't nearly as bad as you all are making it out to be.
Overall, a gripping two hours. Hightower was intense and sympathetic. Kelly was far from a passive victim; she was smart and actively tried to facilitate her own escape/rescue. Lucas was menacing, yet ultimately pitiful. His brother was pure evil. They drew me into the story. Then, the last minute was shocking. I didn't know what was going on until I came here, but wow -- that's sure ending the season with a bang!
My major complaint about the episode comes from the few minutes before the very end. I love the team, but really, they kind of screwed up. Throughout the second hour I kept thinking that they weren't paying sufficient attention to Hightower's whereabouts. He's a good guy at heart, but he's not exactly emotionally stable, and he's in their custody -- something they had to argue strenuously with the Canadians for. And yet they let him wander pretty much unsupervised around the place where his sister likely died. After all those comments within his earshot about how Mason might escape prosecution, was anybody surprised that he took things into his own hands?
And then there was Lucas. Kelly did her best to prep him for a safe arrest. He was huddled whimpering, unarmed, against the wall. Morgan and Hotch had him cornered. The Ontario cops opened fire anyway. I guess that wasn't directly our guys' fault, but somebody -- either them or the commanding officer -- lost control of the scene.
Well, there was a comment in this thread that's now gone (or I can't find it anyway) saying that Thomas Gibson's name was not mentioned in the suggested letter. Not true. Or, we're talking about different letters. At the sister blog:
"I wanted to let you know that if any of the actors from Criminal Minds, especially Thomas Gibson, do not return for season 5 then I will no longer be watching the show."
http://criminalmindstvtidbits.blogspot.com/2009/04/criminal-minds-fans-start-call-in.html
What a slap in the face of all the Criminal Minds fans! What the hell was that?! Killing off the best character on the show!
I'm done with that show. So Long CM!
Dawn
I, for one, enjoyed the finale.
I felt terrible for Lucas.
The entire ending sequence was superb. I applaud not only Mr. Gibson for his stellar delivery, but the entire cast on their conveying of emotion.
The monologue, the delivery, the sequence...it really just got to me. I loved it. I found it oddly poetic, in a way.
Those last 30 seconds?
Absolutely chilling.
Congrats cast, crew, writers, producers, EVERYONE. It was an excellent season and you did, in fact, go out with a bang.
Keep the faith, everyone. They're called cliffhangers for a reason: You don't know what's going to happen.
You all have to know that there is no way Hotch died. Seriously injured maybe but this was just another in a series of putting the characters in mortal danger and it has always meant nothing before and nothing now. My complaint is that this is getting old. How many times can you take a character to the brink of life before it just becomes boring?!?!?!?
I thought Rossi was great. He really focused and I found his interactions with the local police and the brother to be very interesting. The rest was pretty boring.
I have to say, congratulations
Criminal Minds. You managed to
top last seasons cliff hanger,
by leaving us wondering if Hotch
was actually shot by Foyett
from Omnivore. The slow motion
scenes during the last 5 minutes,
let you know that the inevitable
was coming. I have to say, that
the whole episode was great.
I missed the first 30 min, due
to work, but it didn't matter,
because i was able to pick up
immediately when i turned on
the tv.
I couldn't believe these guys
were using these poor people
for experimentation to help
treat mason for his paralasys.
Stem cell research was what it
was to be exact.
Poor Garcia. The look on her
face, when she saw on the lap
top just what they had been
doing, and then the tears.
I also couldn't believe that
they actually cut up these
poor people and then fed them
to the pigs.
You could tell, that this case
hit each team member in a
different way. They are all
going to be scarred from this
case for a long time to come.
Hotch at the end in his office
telling/wondering about how his team would be able to come back
from this, and function for
who knows how long, was true
Hotch.
He cares very deeply for each
member, and shows it in his
own way.
I was on the edge of my seat
the entire time this aired,
and i lost count on the number
of times i got goose bumps,
and the hair raised up on my
arms.
The biggest shock of all, was
watching Hotch as he walked
into his apartment, poured
himself a drink, and then
slowly turning around to find
Foyett standing there behind
him wearing his signature mask
saying,"You should have made
the deal"!
Then it went to black, and you
hear the gun shot.
Leaves us all wondering now,
was he shot or wasn't he?
I guess we'll find out in the
next 3 1/2 months.
I was left in tears, wondering
if he is truly hurt.
Thank you Chris Mundy and
Ed Bernero for this awesome
episode/cliff hanger.
Can't waite to see what
season 5 has in store for us.
Please let Thomas Gibson(Hotch)
return next season. It just
won't be the same without him.
There were pics of eyes all over the place. It totally foreshadowed Foyet showing up and I knew when Hotch entered his home and put down his gun that things were going to get ugly.
Great episode!! I really loved thought the case was awesome the brother killing dr psycho was great! Wonderful cliffhanger! Looking forward to next season. With or without Hotch.
The episodes are starting to really lose production value. The writing isn't as sharp as it was in previous seasons and where did all the character development go!!? If they're going to start minimizing the cases, they should at least compensate by focusing on the characters.
Hopefully Hotch/Thomas Gibson isn't really gone because I don't see the show holding up after that.
ADMINISTRATIVE BLOG NOTE!
OPINIONS ARE WELCOME. RANTING AT EACH OTHER IS NOT WELCOME. EVERYONE HAS THE RIGHT TO THEIR OWN OPINION SO PLEASE DO NOT DIRECT YOUR RANTS AT OTHER POSTERS.
After considerable thought, and much violent rants with my wife who agreed that this ending sucked the fat one, I can only see that they're going to open season 5 in one of two ways. Either the cliffhanger was a bad dream sequence and the writing staff needs to be fired in place of someone better, or they're going to have Hotch in ICU with the team trying to figure out who did it. Which that will pretty damn obvious. Further more, they could have Hotch awaken from his 'coma' with a vengeance, to lay an beating down the likes of which haven't been seen in centuries.
You can see that the only obvious choice is number 2. That or the show will tank.
I would just like to say that I'm shocked. At this time, I will not state my full opinion due to the fact some haven't seen this episode. ARG!
I use "anonymous" because I don't have one of the other sign-ins. Give me a break, if you want my name, email, phone #, address, just ask....
I think there is a LOT of dramatics going on here..... shooting Ed B and the others down because of the way a season finale ended?? seriously?
At least give them until the season premiere... don't be so quick to threaten and blame. If TG is gone, then fine, I will revolt with you (not because he is my favorite - he isn't) but because TPTB will be to blame. It is a totally different scenario than when Gideon / MP left, or even Elle- those were voluntary. If we lose ANY of our actors / actresses because of corporate greed, I am gone.
But until I see something official, I am anxiously awaiting the premiere.
The politics of television. A lot of you are blaming the wrong people for what might/has happened to Thomas Gibson. You've got networks at the top of the chain - they do the buying, they pay for the shows and they have, obviously, enormous influence over budgets, casting and just about everything. Please keep that in mind. The key people to write and call are Nina Tassler who is President of CBS/Paramount Entertainment Group and Leslie Moonves who is the President and CEO of CBS. The politics of television in the 21st century.
I'm so excited to watch!
I liked the whole two hours until the last few minutes. I love episodes that involve the whole BAU working in the field and we even had Garcia out there working. The case was very interesting. I didn't know anything about the real case so this was new to me.
Of course it concerns me that Hotch may have been killed but I am going to put my faith in Ed and CBS to know that this just wouldn't be cool with the fans.
Looking forward to S-5!
Just watched the season finale. I DID NOT LIKE THE ENDING. Thomas Gibson is the star of the show. The cliffhanger leads one to believe he was shot by an intruder in his home. Hope the intruder was shot instead. One of the greatest things about this show is the chemistry of the cast. I fervently hope they did not kill off Gibson's charactor.
Did I miss the memo that said dead Hotch is a done deal? Because it is a season finale, and they tend not to have the happiest or most clear-cut of endings. I seem to recall Elle being shot from not so very far away, and she lived, yeah?
I have seven reasons for watching. If one of them is gone, I'll miss him. Hotch is and always has been a wonderful character, and Thomas Gibson plays him brilliantly.
But Rossi, Prentiss, Morgan, JJ, Garcia & Reid are equally wonderful characters, and every bit as important to the makeup of the show -- and each one of them is portrayed just as brilliantly by incredibly gifted actors.
The show has always been about a team; until it ceases to live up to its history of good writing & awesome acting, I'll keep watching.
I've always felt that Andrew Wilder was the voice of Hotch and Wilder was fired. I guess if you are going to kill off Hotch then you don't need his main writer.
When I saw the Chicago Tribune question the whole Thomas situation I knew there was more to this than a rumor.
About the episode, it was okay minus the ending. I also noticed the eyes from Omnivore. I noticed them but didn't really connect the dots until the ending.
The epi was so-so until the ending, when it took a nose dive. Hotch is the most underrated lead character ever and deserves better. I know his fate is up in the air, so will bite my tongue except to say that if he doesn't return next year, nor will I. CM is not the same without him and not a show I want to support.
Geez, what an awful episode and the worse ending in a long time. killing off Hotch? That better not be true or the season 5 opener will be a serie final for me!
On this good night!
Great performance, Thomas Gibson! I just pray it is not your last as Hotchner. Loved the way Hotch's expression went from shock to resignation to defiance at the end. The true hero, turn to face fate, not take it in the back. CM would be stupid to get rid of this wonderful character and actor.
Hated that episode. Killing off Hotch is the worse idea someone had since having the cast guests stars in one of their own episode!
Will not watch that episode again!
Amy Dobson
I too am mad that they left it on that note. I am going to school for criminal psychology and would very much like to work with the BAU in real life someday.
TG/A. Hotchner is a valuable asset to the BAU team. Without him and his vast knowledge the team will not be led to their many conclusions anymore. I really hope that do not kill him off because CM is a very good show and I love Dr. Spencer Reid as a character(I Have a soft spot for nerds) But I don't think I will be watching the show anymore regardless of my love for Reid. Hotch is a staple in the show and I think that it wouldn't be as successful without him.
Maybe we are jumping to conclusions about his death and all. On IMDb on the trivia page for the show it tells what kinds of weapons each team member uses and his states that Hotch keeps and ankle gun, maybe that is the gun we saw him putting on the table. Or maybe I am just being hopeful. It will be hard waiting until the show comes back in the fall to know what happened.
I guess for now we can just hope that he wasn't killed off.
It was a great finale though. They made us feel bad for the autistic/mentally retarded brother, with the way that Kelly was able to interact with her. I think that had they not have had him shot he would have just wound up in a mental institution because of his diminished capacity.
I liked it except for the last 5 minutes. You always know something is going to happen when they show scenes in slow motion. Especially when they narrow the focus down to one cast member in particular!
But who knows, maybe all of our whining will get him back if they did truly intend for him to die. If not then good bye CM.
Can't speak for anyone else but I dug this one...great case (Mason Turner reminded me of, well, Mason Verger a'la Hannibal but in a good way), great performances by the cast and guests, and the ending made me jump!
Now here's my tiny critique...Why is it always either Reid or Hotch? Haha! Seriously though, Reid had the Henkel kidnapping/torture and, most recently, the anthrax scare. Hotch got blown up and now (seemingly ) shot in the face. Yes the others have been through their own ordeals but never to the same extent (aside maybe Garcia when she was shot).
And now, my analysis: I think the writers here are playing with fans a bit maybe - Reid and Hotch have a large, strong, very passionate fanbase and they must know that by now so putting another agent in distress won't get the same "OMG WTF?!?!" reaction. Putting either of these agents in mortal danger (esp at the end of a season) ensures their fans will return for, at least, the next seaon's opener where, so far, the character is alive and with a built in Recovery Arch for the remainder of the season. (Even Elle returned to try and recover; it was the actress herself who choose to leave, not the writers/creators bouncing her. I haven't heard of Gibson saying he'd wished to leave, I've heard only how much he loves being on the show).
Maybe I'm wrong, maybe I'm right, but either way I know that I've been hooked into worrying for the next few months before I inevitably scramble to my couch to watch next season's opener so I can find out what happened to dear Hotch! :D
Sorry Ed and Chris. I am just used to getting so much more out of CM. The pigs were way overdone. The plot was predictable. I just didn't enjoy watching it like I normally do. And, if you have indeed killed off Hotch, you will not have me watching the show next year. What a disappointing season finale. Not at all like last year.
Since the start they showed C Thomas Howell name so I new for sure Foyet was back. I kept wanting the pig case to be over to see what was up with Foyet,but the case kept dragging...I found it slow and boring. The ending was just sad and plain, if they trully kill Hotch this is not a deservinig way for his character to go. By the way if Hotch dies I wont be watching anymore CM, it is not really CM without Thomas Gibson.
"You should've made a Deal" was from Omnivore. The man in the mask was a killer in Boston. Now we have to wait to see if Hotch is dead, injured or alright. Maybe the guy missed with his shot.
First we lost Lola then Mandy. I think we traded up by getting Paget and Joe but I don't see how we could trade up by getting rid of Thomas.
The episode was meh. Not the best and not the worst. Actually it felt like filler episodes which is alright but only the last few minutes really screamed finale.
Admin, you should put up a new poll entited:
"Did you hate this episode because of Hotch or the writing?"
I am really curious to see how that would go. I'm trying to weed through these and decide if people thought it was a poor episode altogether, or if they are just mad that a great character could be lost.
Ed,
"You should have made a deal"
okay! Can we make a deal with you?
You spare Hotch's life and we continue watching the show.
Fair?
i'm new to criminal minds...i don't know all the "ins & outs" of the characters, but i like the show & the actors/characters.
what i don't understand about the 2009 season finale (to hell...and back) is why didn't they make a bigger deal out of the hunter in the woods? remember the scene where we see a rabbit and then a hunter steps on a tree branch, and then they come across a hunter? to me, he was up to something...not just hunting rabbits!
if mason was REALLY a quadraplegic, and his poor brother lucas was moderately retarded, then HOW did lucas manage to handle a needle and extract the correct amount of fluid from the victim's neck for the stem cell research?
i don't know who foyet is...at the end, where someone is masked & at hotch's house, saying something like "you should have taken the deal"...
i think it's a shame that they shot mason & lucas because now we'll never have the answers as to what really went on...
i still say that hunter in the woods had SOMETHING to do with it.
maybe just a naive opinion of a new fan of criminal minds.
i'll watch the show next season because i'm really getting into it.
i've seen bits & pieces of the show (i usually walk in on the middle of it and then get drawn in to watching the rest of it.)
thanks for the info! until next season...
I knew that we would have at least one death when Mason told Rossi that his brother Lucas was crazy and basically telling them to kill him.
Kelly really was the strongest victim ever on the show. She really kept herself together and used her brain and in the end she really felt sorry for Lucas.
When Garcia figured out that they were killing the victims so they could do experiments in spinal regeneration, I thought I would puke. Made me think of the Nazi experiments. I loved Kirsten's performance tonight.
No ending quote. Just Hotch's thoughts leading us to his being shot.
What an episode!
What was the point of the hunter? That didn't seem to go anywhere. Did I miss something?
I have to admit - I was disappointed. I'm used to so much bigger and better from this writing team. To be fair, this was an adequate ep for a middle of the season, but for a finale? Underwhelming.
I get weary of JJ just disappearing for entire scenes. She should have been with Hightower the entire time. What the hell was he doing alone?
All of that aside, I am going to assume that Hotch will eventually be just fine. Killing him off - the heart and soul of this show even if not my fave character - would just be, well unthinkable. I'm not able to think it.
On the plus side? The female victim? Always nice to see a strong and intelligent woman who doesn't lose her wits and yet retains her compassion. Nice touch.
i thought it was little to graphic and just kind of grossed me out when they feeding the parts to the pigs. Aren't you ever worried that these are going to happen it real life. I turned it off at 10:30 so I could sleep tonight.
This episode had an awful lot of foreshadowing, much more than your average CM devotee requires - otherwise I thought it was good.
I've been watching since Season 1 - that's when our son was diagnosed with Asperger's and Reid seemed a good model for him since he's obviously an aspie (and has been a great inspiration, my son and I watch CM together religiously and Reid helped expand his view of what he could be).
With all the foreshadowing, how obvious was it that they'd bring back from Omnivore? As Reid said, pigs are omnivores, they'll eat anything.
I'm sitting tight waiting to see what season 5 brings (with or without Hotch or other members) to decide if the show is still worth watching. I can't imagine it won't be.
I liked the overall episode, until the end. (It reminded me of "Hannibal" a little.) The ending with Hotch was really NOT good though. I'm just hoping that Hotch got to his gun and shot "The Reaper" first. Hopefully, it was Hotch's gun we heard and not "Reaper's". But, I will be wondering all summer if we will see Thomas Gibson back on CM. If he does leave, it will be hard for me to watch...and I've been a loyal viewer since the pilot. Hotch is my favorite character and he always has been. I'm still so flustered I can barely think of anything to write in this post. If we lose a character, all I can ask is WHY? Criminal Minds is a "CASH COW" for CBS...why would they get rid of "The Man"? He's the glue that holds the whole team together. Criminal Minds is always at the top in the ratings. Why would CBS risk messing with that?
*sigh*
Ripley
in reality, there is no way for them to keep TG leaving a secret for the entire summer. we will know something long before the premiere
I think this eppy was really good am extremely shocked at how many disagree. I read someone said that they stole this right from a Canada case. Where do you think they get ideas??
The ending? Exactly what I would expect. Foyet was unhappy with Hotch so he goes after Hotch. Duh. If you don't understand it rewatch previous eppys. And guys it's a season finale it's SUPPOSED to have a cliffhanger. They want you to be aching to see next season.
Okay I love CM but I have to say I was expecting ALOT more from the writers. The whole thing was just disgusting and too easily laid out for us....as someone mentioned we aren't morons we don't need it spelled out. I've been kind of disappointed with this season. I'm not sure why the interaction between Morgan/Garcia was like no exsistant this season but I didn't find the episodes as interesting without that. Now let me clarify M/G aren't the only reason I watch but I really enjoy their "comedic relief" for lack of a better phrase. If Hotch dies [which I don't think he will] I will be very angry the show won't be the same. Morgan is my all time favorite besides Garcia but I really love the whole cast so to lose one of them would suck. Let's just hope it all works out!
Good and bad. There were parts of the finale I didn't like and thought weren't very well done. The whole pig thing was carried a bit too far, imo - but hey, look at all the strong performances in part two. Mason and Lucas were great unsubs, the victim (Kelly) played by Lily Kershaw did a brilliant job, and Mantegna (Rossi) brought home a strong performance. It was creepy and meant to walk the fine line of taste, but the show wasn't near the disaster some are portraying. If anything, the comments about uninspired acting might be true due to possible bad news they were coping with in real time during filming. Which brings me to...
We won't have to wait until the season opener to know if Thomas Gibson returns as Hotch on Criminal Minds. If it is confirmed that he won't be on the show, we'll know soon (this summer) and it will be all over the entertainment news. I just setup a Google News Alert for "Thomas Gibson". Of course, I'll also be checking this blog and keep my ear to the ground. Corporate greed is the only thing that could write Gibson off the show. CBS is pulling the strings, make no mistake. I will be faxing CBS executives tomorrow.
Keep your heads up, Criminal Minds fans! It's a great show with great talent (on screen and off) and good things happen when fans of a top 10 show get a bit rowdy due to stupidity in the executive suites.
My wife said, "They could always fall back on the oldest device of all in screenwriting - THE DREAM!"
In other words, there ARE ways CBS can back down.
I love CM and I want to continue to show my support to them... but I really can't imagine a show without Hotchner.
I can't imagine watching it without him. There was an episode where he wasn't with the team and I just didn't like it.
I am shocked and dissapointed at the CM writers. To kill off the main character of the show, one that many fans loves is like a slap in the face of the fans. Let's hope CBS and TPTB are not that stupid by letting go of Thomas Gibson. I hope they will look at what is happening on CSI after Pettersen left, not even Lawrence Fishburne can save that show from losing so many viewers after Pettersen left.
btw I sure will not be back for season 5 if TG isn't back on CM next season.
I just have to say something else...
I lost my Father last year and it has broken our whole family apart. We didn't realize that he was the rock that held us together.
That is how I think of Hotch. I think that losing his character would make this whole show fall apart.
(PS... this doesn't mean that I think of Hotch as a father figure, although I wouldn't mind a little spanking.)
;o)
I read as much as I could of your comments. I think this episode could have been done in one hour show. As far as Hotch being killed, I don't think so. But if he is, it will be a great lost. but I don't think he will die. remember in the show with Howe, the unsub needed for his victims to be in agonizing before he kills them. and even though hotch is alert, hotch doesn't scare easily. So I think he will live.
I LOVE this show! I am so horrified at the thought of Hotchner gone. I hope that this cliff hanger is the lead in for some Hotchner angst. I can live with angst, I just can't live with anyone leaving.
I also think it's time for some Prentis, or JJ angst, but like I said if this so Hotch has more angst, then I'm open to it.
As a Detroiter, I think the writers did a good job and did their research at looked at the maps when writing this episode. A lot of actual Detroit streets were named.The street names were accurate, but the Cass Corridor is not crawling with prostitutes and addicts during the day. For all I know it might be at night, because we've got a 5-year-old and haven't been out since 9 in a long time, but I've driven down the Cass Corridor many times during the day and while there might sometimes be a group of people waiting outside one of the clinics or shelters, it's definitely mainly desolate.
Overall, though, I enjoyed this episode. I wouldn't assume Thomas Gibson isn't come back unless there's an official announcement that he isn't.
It's going to drive me cray, anyone know what episode the masked kid is from? Going to miss his stern look....
I haven't seen the finale season yet because in France I have to wait for the streaming version :(. But... it's the job of writers to create suspense, isn't it? that doesn't mean a character will actually die...
I like Hotch's character et he's so important to the show they can't just make him disapear It would be a mistake Definitely
Seriously guys--THEY ARE NOT GOING TO KILL OFF HOTCH!! For crying out loud I think they are smarter than that! Come one! While it was a cheapo thing to do, they are not going to do that. Seriously. Besides--I think all the actors would have something to say about that, be they their boss or not. Let's be rational.
As for the episode(s), I'll admit it wasn't the best of the season, but it was still pretty good and there was some great acting. I really liked how the girl befriended Lucas and didn't sit there crying. Lucas did a great job at being a mentally retarded and emotionally distressed person.
My opinion? Hotch is just going to be severely injured. That comment he made at the end about the team staring into the dark abyss(sp?) was a perfect set-up for major angst as they fight to catch the bad guy while Hotch is barely making it at the hospital. I'll say it again---
HOTCH WON'T DIE!!
Suzieb,
Are you talking about the one who shot Hotch? It was C Thomas Howell from Omnivore. Played back in March and he got away at the end.
it's weird I was convinced that Foyet will come after Morgan after all...
I don't view this as a cliffhanger. I view this as a cop out. The episodes tonight were good episodes and then they slammed in that last little bit and POOF we have a cliffhanger.
I didn't really care for the episodes as much as I normally do....however I was suprised by the ending....could it be possible since Spencer noticed the Eye carving and he made that comment about the case not ending well, that he maybe warned Hotch and someone else was in Hotch's apartment and shot the guy? I know it's probably far fetched but hoping that Hotch wasn't killed....
Toss up on whether I believe TG is going or not. The timing of his letter on this blog falling during the same week that the writers were canned was curious. CBS not defending him when the mags ragged on him and said that he was difficult on the set was curious as well. I guess we have to wait and see.
The two episodes were okay. I didn't like the first hour as much as the second hour. It was flat. The parts that I did like:
I could have lived a lifetime without seeing a pig chewing on a human arm.
The 100 pairs of shoes was ubber creepy.
Garcia was fantastic in this episode.
Kelly was amazing. Great job by the actress that played her. She managed to not only calm down Lucas but she gets him to think they are friends which gave her time to grab the phone and turn it on long enough for Garcia to trace her location. Such quick thinking under such intense circumstances. Kudos to the cast.
Between this episode and Lucky I'm thinking of becoming a vegetarian.
I don't think they vote Hotch off the island. It would be too stupid a move. He'll be back next season.
Evie, what letter are you talking about? :-ss
I don't usually comment here, but as I understand it, people who have says in what goes on reads here, so:
If you kill Hotch, that's show suicide. That simple.
I'm still not convinced they actually have - My Show Always Has Something Up Its Sleeve. But yanno. In case.
The mirrors hanging up all over Mason's room so he can keep tabs on his brother Lucas was weird. So it turns out that Lucas pushed Mason down some stairs or something and he ended up paralyzed. So you have a pair of unsubs consisting of a paralyzed man and a retarded man who are working together to torture and mutilate people so they can conduct experiments with stem cells on muscle regeneration. What a pair these two are! I found this pretty interesting. It was a good storyline.
I liked the episode/episodes except for the ending.
Irene, I don't want to speak for Evie but I would assume it is the letter from TG to this blog. I think there is still a link to it on the front page. If not it is probably in the archives.
Didn't like the episodes and not just because Hotch got maybe shot. I just found it dull. Not much of a cliff hanger.
Sweden here, just watch the episode and... O MY GOD.
Totally, yes, i've managed to find the letter. And i've also found the letter from the writer who was fired. And something he said hinted at the fact that he is the only one fired. Or...maybe that's what i wanted to read into it.
At first, i was intrigued about the ending. I thought it will make for a very interesting season premiere, but after reading all of this, i'm scared and heartbroken.
Us, the fans of Criminal Minds, have taken too many blows to the heart from the cast changes. I'm not sure we can handle another one. I love all of them...and this hurts :(
I thought this season was really great. There were a couple of rough spots and bad writings, but all in all, it was a great season, fantastic even.
And tonight's episode was very creepy, but the end pissed me off!!
Shooting Hotch?? Nooooo. Seriously you can't kill off a vital part to the team. Hotch is their fearless leader. To kill him is practically destroying the team.
So this makes me think that MAYBE Hotch didn't really die, MAYBE he's only heavily injured.
Hopefully the writers and producers and the whole Criminal Minds/CBS team knows that if they kill off Hotch, they would be losing a lot of viewers.
come on! let's be serious and rationnal one minute You have a great show ; you have just fired some writers. You don't jeopardize more the show by firing an actor like TG, whose role is one of the most important in the team. it's suicidal The loss is due to be bigger than the gain... it makes no sense
I have seen the finale season It was not that bad, i think... too disturbing, for sure But it's true it's not what you expect from a finale season of such a TV show
We will have a season 5 with Hotch, I have no doubt!!
Although I seriously doubt they'll kill of Hotch, cuz they'd be just plain stupid if they did that AND they'd definitely lose the majority of the fanbase, too. But I'm sure I speak for millions of others that if they killed off Hotch, I would not watch criminal minds anymore for sure.
Oh my good gravy!!!! Finally after all of the dramatics here I was able to watch the epi...... !
It is hard to know... with all of the rumors flying around about losing a primary cast member.... but that look on Hotchner's face? Even the stoic hero would have had some measure of fear in his eyes.
I think.
Some really good points... Garcia's tears were precious and tender
Kelly a strong woman, but not obnoxious (like the lady in the epi where the guys hunted with bows)
Hotchner's monologue at the end...... that better not have been THE END
Love CM- but gotta have my occasional Hotchalanche!
No no. No no no! That cannot happen! The show needs Hotch! Honestly, if they do kill Hotch off, I think they are killing something off of the show. I loved this episode, but the ending seemed a bit deja vuish of when Elle got shot at the end of The Fisher King: Part 1. Plus, Hotch the one in danger again?
Hmm. I did like the episode, it was great, but not the ending so much. Argh!
CBS, bigshots, and all involved, do not do something stupid and ruin your show by killing off one of (if not the) main character of the show. Like was said, it is HIS team!
I don`t believe one minute they are killing Hotch off the show. To me it looks like the whole rumors about Thomas Gibson leaving (or having to leave) the show are just staged and fueled and hyped. I am pretty sure he will be back next season.
And so I was not surprised or shocked about the end of last nights episode because I was expecting something like that. Actually I found it a little boring.
The writers would have surprised me if not Hotch but one of the other agents would have been the one in danger. But maybe they manage to surprise me after all in the season 5 premiere.
Anyway I hope everybody is save back in season 5 and there are exciting storylines for each member of our beloved BAU team because I love them ALL !!!
^ all cbs shows have some character missing in all of a sudden... CBS needs to make budget cuts... do the math!
from all fans are 45% Hotch fans, 45% reid fans... what will kiling Hotch do for the show! Maybe not in the first few episodes of Season 5.. but surely later on..
Do you want to keep your rating CBS... be wise...
Actually, I liked most of the double episode. It wasn’t the best one ever, but it had enough good stuff in it.
I liked the slower pace of this episode. They had double their usual time and they took their time, no need to put us on a two-hour roller coaster. Garcia was shining today. The pigs didn’t gross me out, they just made me think of my own dinner. It’s almost philosophical: Pig eats man, man eats pig. What DID gross me out was performing ‘medical’ experiments on human beings and Lucas treating his victims with that hammer. When he marked their necks and being on a farm I really expected him to pull out a captive-bolt pistol, but the hammer and syringe were even worse. It doesn’t make sense to me though how Lucas could have carried out those experiments seeing how severely retarded he was in those scenes with the female victim. And it was the second time they had a big, violent, mentally challenged unsub on this show. I don’t think they’re doing handicapped people a favor with that though it was unusual (in a positive way) to show Hightower taking off his prosthesis.
What I hated was the end of the finale. Not only because Hotch is in danger and we just can’t loose our team leader. But it felt forced and ridiculous to me, totally unconnected to the rest of the episode. If I wasn’t a die-hard CM fan, I wouldn’t have understood it. How should anybody who hasn’t seen Omnivore, or isn’t so fanatic to remember it instantly, make any sense of the last scene? My guess would be that the ‘average’ viewer went WTF. It really felt like the cliffhanger was put there just for the shock effect and an end in itself. And please: Hotch comes home only to pour himself a drink first thing, and the booze is placed conveniently in the entrance hall? Our stern leader isn’t an alcoholic! That was just BS and not even necessary for the cliffhanger.
Okay, so we had two hours of TV entertainment that I enjoyed, and about two minutes that were just crap. Unfortunately, these were the last two minutes, so I wonder what will stick in my mind in the long run. Probably the very impressive image with all those shoes. That’s what got to me most of it.
You know, CM better make up for the weak last minutes of this season’s finale with a mind-blowing season premiere in fall. But as they let go of five brilliant writers, I somehow have my doubts about that.
"The street names were accurate, but the Cass Corridor is not crawling with prostitutes and addicts during the day"
Lori,
I don't see many prostitutes or addicts on Cass itself. Most of the transient population seem to be on Third between MLK Bvld and Temple.
I hope that Thomas Gibson isn't leaving. Until I hear an official announcement, I won't believe it. If Criminal Minds loses a team member, this show will have jumped the shark.
Yeah, i feel the exact same way. I have to study for an exam, and i keep thinking about the show. It ruined my day. We're going to go crazy until september.
I am very curious on how they will make the season 5 premiere teaser/preview. Will they show Hotch in the hospital? Will they just show the others angry/sad? I remember last year, not only did they not make us feel better with the teaser, they made it worse.
*sighs*....too long to wait.
Seriously, was Pt. 1 written by the same man who wrote "Demonology"? I just did not see the same caliber of writing I am used to seeing on CM. I usually really enjoy Mundy eps, but I did not care for this one. Too much with the pigs. I could not stomach it. I'm an EMT and I can take a lot, but the pigs were just too much. I would like to give kudos to Sharif Atkins who did a wonderful job, especially in the opening scene.
I love CM and I watch the eps over and over and over again. There are very, very few episodes that don't grab my attention and keep it for the entire ep. Last night, I got my nails painted, caught up on e-mails, etc. I did not enjoy Pt. 1, therefore I had little interest in Pt. 2. The group I was watching with commented that Pt. 2 had better writing....I didn't notice because by that point you had lost my attention. Sorry, but I would have rather watched an episode of Harper's Island...at least it is entertaining.
As for the Hotch ending....that really sucked. Why must you put a team member in jeopardy at the end of each season? How about just having an awesome episode? I'm a Reid fan personally, but without Hotch, I am afraid I will not continue to watch CM. What makes this show (or made, rather) so great is the team interaction and the writing. Without Hotch and some of the writers that were let go, CM will not be the same. Killing off Hotch is just wrong. Do you have ANY idea what that will do to your ratings? Hello???
Well, thankfully we have some awesome episodes from S4 to fall back on, like "Mayhem", "Normal", "Bloodline", "Minimal Loss", "Omnivore", "52 Pick-up", "Demonology" and "Pleasure is My Business". Unfortunately, I will not be watching "To Hell...And Back" again.
Well... I've read the comments and I've seen the finale... I think it could have been a one hour episode... honestly...OK.. he used pigs... we got that in the promo.
It wasn't my favorite and it wasn't the worst on my list. I was waiting for the cliffhanger and it was stressful. I don't know how Hotch will get out of this but I hope he does. I agree with one of the other comments... Andrew Wilder was the voice of Hotch...it will be very sad to lose both. I also agree that it will be hard to keep this secret all summer so maybe we will hear something.
I'm really not sure how I feel about CM right now... it has a very loyal fan base and I think CBS/ABC is playing with fire while trying to save a few dollars.
I'm really not sure if I will be watching next season...
FYI ANONYMOUS: it's easy to have some kind of identity here even without a sign-in: click on name/URL and put in whatever you like to be identified as. Easy as pie. It's nice sometimes to be able to refer to someone else's post. "Anonymous" makes it difficult because there are often several people posting as such. Of course if you prefer to remain anonymous for a certain reason ...
And no, I don't care about anyone's phone # or address except for those of my friends.
And to sound like an old record: I want Hotch BACK next season. He truly is Mr. FBI and the way an agent should be. Love his integrity, courage, compassion, high moral & values, and superb leadership qualities. It's nice to have a true role model for once. I couldn't imagine CM without Morgan, JJ, Garcia, Reid, Prentiss & Rossi. If you must get rid of someone I suggest Strauss ...
Again, thank you for a wonderful season. Just wish it had ended without the rumors of TG not returning.
P.S.: I really, REALLY miss Andrew Wilder
I thought this was a great episode!! The pigs on the previews were definitely freaking me out a bit!
I was honestly speechless at the final sounds. All the comments between Jill and I started to make sense!!!
I especially loved having (Kirsten)Penelope on the set with the rest of the cast. I did worry that (Matthew)Reid was going to be the victim twice in two weeks though... so glad he wasn't, but I don't know if I'm going to be able to contain myself until September.
And Best.Emotional.Response. from Shemar. My roommate and I were both moved by his emotion!!!
One of my favorite 5 episodes of the 91 to date!!! The writers never cease to amaze me with what they can come up with.
Umm...how about we not kill Agent Hotchner? Please?
I mean, I understand injuring him. But I really really really don't want him to die.
I spent the whole episode wondering and watching to see if something bad was going to happen to one of the BAU since the CBS hype said that one of the agents would be in danger. I was lulled into a false sense of security by the case they were working on and the seemingly lack of danger that any of them seemed to be in and then it was almost like the episode was over. I rewatched it. The 'real' episode was over and it was like they attached a few minutes of unrelated footage. Do I think they killed Hotch? Would I still watch the show if they did kill Hotch?
I don't know if they killed or hurt him but it was clear that Hotch had put his gun down and walked away from it and since this is just a tv show I am okay with all of this but..
it felt like a cheap season finale trick to me. Not like any of our other season cliffhangers at all. This one just felt forced and cheap.
Wow, great to see so many comments here. The CMF family is alive and active. CM has a very loyal and intelligent fan-base and I hope the people in charge will remember that when deciding how to continue with season 5 (hint: keep Hotch!!!).
Glad to hear that some of you enjoyed the episode. I usually enjoy all CM episodes, some more-some less, but this one is different. Obviously because of the rumors that TG hasn't been asked to return to the set for the next season. Then I have a limit to how much graphic violence and sick crime I can stomach. Is it really a good idea to desensitize the audience to brutality, torture, and unimaginable cruelty? It is harder than ever to get reactions from jurors to crime scene pictures. If it's not absolutely disgusting it's just "not that bad" anymore.
I have always liked the episodes that focus on investigation, developing profile, and interrogations most. Good detective and forensic work trumps graphic violence in my book. Yes, there are serial killers but the majority of them do not commit such unimaginable sick acts. Do we now diminish their blameworthiness because those murders aren't just as sick as the ones we see on TV? Just something to think about. That's all.
My favorite character is Reid but Thomas Gibson deserves an Emmy award for his performance last night. I think he is toast on the show but that happens on shows all the time. Actors come and go. If Thomas Gibson wants to leave then lets at least be grateful that he isn't puling a Mandy on us.
Criminal Minds is on against SVU next season so the show is going to suffer in the ratings. Maybe this is just a way for CBS to save some money.
I liked the guest stars last night and thought they were just awesome.
The signs of Foyet being back in this episode were there almost immediately. So many eyes. And the actor was in the credits but the eyes were like everywhere.
My boyfriend and I are done watching the show but it has more to do with being tired of the agent in danger being played out over and over again than Hotch being hurt (if he is even hurt).
We're being treated like stupid viewers and that is really a first for the show. I expected more than that. So what chilled me on watching the show again is the stunt and has nothing to do with TG.
I agree with you, Vali. One of the things I like about CM is that they don't have to use bloody, disgusting things for shock value. Just the mentions of the crime and the attitude of the Unsub is shocking.
It wasn't too terrible in the episode though. Some shows will spend 10 straight minutes of blood and guts just to get a response. I don't think they realize that the response is "hire a new writer".
So I'm ok with the light bit of gore in this episode but hope they don't get carried away with it next season.
(PS...bring Hotch back. Did I say that already?)
There is a ton of emotion on this board right now and for good reason.
The last month of rumors and now the last minutes of the finale. Wow...
Very creepy, disturbing, icky ... won't eat pork again anytime soon... the emotion of the actors was amazing. Morgan's reactions...really well done.
The mentally challenged unsub and the victim ... it was all about survival. Kelly was very strong and Lucus was caught between guilt and an evil brother. Great development.
Thanks for several amazing episodes this season: Omnivore, Memorium (sp sorry), Zoe's Reprise, Mayham, Normal, Minimal Loss... great stuff.
I'm hoping Hotch dodges the bullet somehow, but if he doesn't come back... sadly, I won't be back either.
April
is there anything we can actually do to save Hotch's character? even if we don't really know he's really in trouble or not...
I personally liked the ep, although I saw the ending coming roughly mid-season, but so did a lot of people.
As for all the people going "NO HOTCH IS DEAD!", where have you been for pretty much the last twenty years of movies, television and even comic books?
Haven't we learned by now that an off-camera death is always questionable? Whenever you don't see the actual death, it usually means that it hasn't happened.
I can't actually remember a single main character off-camera death since they killed off Henry Blake in M*A*S*H, and that was after the actor had left the show anyway.
Look, Hotch is a main character, a fan favourite and a pivotal role, they can't just kill him off without a sizable build-up. If he had some big dramatic death scene, I'd say the jig was most certainly up, but as it stands, they're not going to leave him with a 30 second farewell scene.
I enjoyed this episode (except the end of course) because its criminal minds and Im a huge fan. I think it made a good finale just because of the huge numbers of victims. This is no ordinary serial killer.
With that said, I am with Shadow when she says how could a mentally retarded brother do these horrible things? That's hard to believe, but I'm sure its possible.
The case was written well, kind of slow though (but then they had two hours to drag it out) but it still kept my interest. I'm glad Hightower shot Mason, I would have been upset if no one had.
My favourite moments were Morgan's quips and honestly at getting out of the pig farm. Garcia's 'Wizard of Oz' was cute. I loved JJ's hair, that style really suits her.
Also I have to say that the actors who played Hightower and Kelly; were awesome! I totally believed 'Kelly's' character. That was excellent casting. Kudos to that actress.
Now about the ending; doesn't it remind you of kind 'deus ex machina' (sorry if I spelt it wrong)? All of a sudden there Foyet! BANG! I understand they wanted a cliffhanger but it seemed kinda forced. Plus Hotch is a FBI Unit chief, shouldn't he know if someone broke into his house? Does he not have some type of alarm?
I really hope they don't kill him off; and if they don't I'm sure it will be a great story line for next season. I'm with those who say Foyet just shot him to hurt him; not to kill.
Overall I think season 3's finale was better. That is a real cliffhanger. But its CM I'll take what I can get.
I loved Hotch's monologue at the end and I think the reason they faded to black was because he DOESN'T get shot.
Reid foreshadowed that the case wasn't going to end well and he held the first drawing with the eye on it in his own hands!
Reid knows what the eye means. He knows it is the sign of the Reaper.
I believe he saves Hotch like Hotch saved him from Dawson!
Don't underestimate Reid
I totally agree with MCU : everything is possible If TG really leaves the show, i'm pretty sure the writers won't let him go like this
but once again, Hotch may not be dead! and i hope so!
for the finale episode, i think i can't give a correct opinion I spend the whole time asking myself : who is gonna be in danger? Not Hotch again, please... I think I can't be objective
Not sure how I felt about the two hours of CM last night. I really liked several parts of both episodes but it had some really long lulls. Hotch getting shot was a done deal. You knew as soon as he entered his apt that something would happen to him. I guess that all we can do is wonder and wait. Hopefully they aren't using this time to negotiate the end of Gibson's contract. That would totally suck!
hey i have read all the comments... I hope like everyone that Hotch is not dead
for the finale scene, let's not forget that Hotch usually carries a second gun
He's "Captain America", remember?
I'm sorry for asking, i think i'm too tired, but did the eye have something to do with the reaper? I don't remember that in the omnivore episode. I thought it was just something that had special significance to Lucas
yes Irene There was an eye on the deal letter that the Reaper sent
Oh wow, i can't believe i forgot about that. :-o
Then it's seriously freaky. I was honestly hoping that the shot we heard was somebody else shooting the reaper, not the reaper shooting Hotch. That seems a lot more plausible now.
I loved both episodes...everything was great, what I didnt get was how they left Hightower alone but I think this one of the worst cases they ever had, so much so that Morgan couldnt even take being present on the farm and the whole place was buzzing everyone was too busy trying to figure out what was really happening on that farm...I honestly thought the unsub was going to get his hands on one of the team members...Didn't see the end coming at all...But I'm sure Hotch will be back next season thats the way season finales are...
we don't really know the reaper's strategy... I'm convinced it's more complicated than him shooting/killing Hotch ... we, as fans, deserve better!!!
I can't believe I forgot about the second gun! There is hope...
April
Like other people said.. Elle got shot from up close and lived, so he's got a good shot at coming back.
Plus, to me it doesn't make sense for The Reaper to just shoot him like that. He likes playing with the Police/FBI way too much to just off his main target. He didn't kill Morgan but wanted to let him know he could have. He only executed the people on the bus to get to Hotch. And his other victims we know he took his time stabbing many times over.
Sure this would hurt the team but it still doesn't seem his signature to kill him off just like that with the gun unless it was to get to someone else specifically.
Let's cross our fingers that this is the case and he just wounds Hotch to show him he's not even safe in his own home and that they can't control him.
Chris Mundy usually does better than what we got in part 1. I love Demonology but didn't like part 1 of to hell and back. Way too much on the pigs and way too disturbing.
As for Part 2, I may have loved Mayhem which was written by Ed Bernero but I hated part 2 which was written by Ed too. That ending is way too much. How can you even do that to the fans? You seriously cannot kill off Hotch!
Beside, it makes no sense at all! Go back to Andrew Wilder's script and read AGAIN, The Reaper offert a deal to the old cop 'You stop hunting me, I stop hunting them' his thing is control, not just of the people he kills but the cops who work the case, he likes to feel superior. So what would have made sense was to have the Reaper go after Morgan afterall the Reaper takes something from his last victim and then leave it on the next. The Reaper does have Morgan's Id and badge, by killing Morgan and dumping Morgan's Id on another victim and then offert Hotch the deal would have made sense, the Reaper stop killing Hotch team if he takes the deal....that would have been a great moral dillema for Hotch....now with the Reaper having (I sure hope NOT!!!!) maybe killed Hotch, what does it do for him? Nothing, he can no longer control Hotch.
No, I really, REALLY hated that episode. Lets hope Hotch will survive and be back at the BAU next season if not then I sure will not be back.
Diane V
What the....CM/CBS are you all trying to make us flee next season?!?!
Hotchner better not be dead because I will be watching Law & Order SUV instead of CM next September!
Piss off CM fans!
I didn't like the episode. I thought the plot was really obvious from the very beginning and they treated their viewers like idiots. I also thought it dragged, a lot. There was no need for that to be a 2-hour finale.
With regards to TG/Hotch's apparent death, I will watch the season 5 premiere, but like a lot of you, if he's really gone, so am I. Whether they kill him or whether he's just injured and resigns to go spend time with his son.
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