Criminal Mind discussion thread. Discuss Criminal Minds episodes or anything Criminal Minds related but please be respectful of each other. :)
Subscribe to:
Post Comments (Atom)
skip to main |
skip to sidebar
Discussion Threads
To talk about your favorite TV show "Criminal Minds" please join our CMF Message Board. Please read the instructions in this post carefully so we can approve your registration as soon as possible.
Twitter: http://twitter.com/criminalminds
All content is copyrighted by Criminal Minds Fanatic Blogspot.
Criminal Minds
Blog Archive
-
▼
2011
(290)
-
▼
April
(32)
- CRIMINAL MINDS: JOE MANTEGNA'S STAR
- CRIMINAL MINDS: MATTHEW GRAY GUBLER INTERVIEW
- CRIMINAL MINDS PRESS RELEASE FOR "SUPPLY AND DEMAND"
- KIRSTEN VANGSNESS SHARES EXCITING NEWS!
- CRIMINAL MINDS: DISCUSSION THREAD FOR SEASON SIX
- CRIMINAL MINDS: MESSAGE FROM ERICA MESSER
- CRIMINAL MINDS: MATTHEW GRAY GUBLER & MAGIC VALLEY
- CRIMINAL MINDS: JOE MANTEGNA GOLFING FOR CHARITY
- CRIMINAL MINDS: MIA MANTEGNA INTERVIEWS HER DAD
- CRIMINAL MINDS: TV GUIDE INTERVIEW WITH AJ COOK
- CRIMINAL MINDS: BEST NEWS EVER!
- CRIMINAL MINDS PRESS RELEASE FOR "BIG SEA"
- CRIMINAL MINDS PROMO PIC FOR "BIG SEA"
- CRIMINAL MINDS PROMO PIC FOR "BIG SEA"
- CRIMINAL MINDS PROMO PIC FOR "BIG SEA"
- CRIMINAL MINDS EXCLUSIVE CHAT WITH SHOWRUNNER ERIC...
- CRIMINAL MINDS EXCLUSIVE CHAT WITH THOMAS GIBSON
- CRIMINAL MINDS CHAT WITH ERICA MESSER: CHANGE OF DATE
- CRIMINAL MINDS CHAT WITH ERICA MESSER
- CRIMINAL MINDS DISCUSSION THREAD
- CRIMINAL MINDS: AJ COOK SIGNS TWO YEAR CONTRACT
- CRIMINAL MINDS PRESS RELEASE FOR "OUT OF THE LIGHT"
- CRIMINAL MINDS CHAT WITH THOMAS GIBSON
- CRIMINAL MINDS QUOTE & SONG INFO FOR "THE STRANGER"
- CRIMINAL MINDS SPOILER THREAD FOR "THE STRANGER"
- CRIMINAL MINDS: KIRSTEN VANGSNESS INTERVIEW
- CRIMINAL MINDS REBROADCAST OF "WHAT HAPPENS AT HOM...
- Criminal Minds: "The Stranger" --Hotchner (Thomas ...
- CRIMINAL MINDS QUOTE & SONG INFO FOR "HANLEY WATERS"
- CRIMINAL MINDS SPOILER THREAD FOR "HANLEY WATERS"
- CRIMINAL MINDS: JOE MANTEGNA ON PETROS & MONEY
- Criminal Minds: Matthew Gray Gubler arriving at th...
-
▼
April
(32)
644 comments:
1 – 200 of 644 Newer› Newest»Am I the first to post?
:)
Amazing!
I <3 CM with a burning passion!
Well, first and foremost, AJ IS BACK!!!
I cannot even begin to describe how happy I am. I never realized just how big her role was: she was the maternal, loving and caring person of the group and that is SO necessary on a show like this. So happy!!!
Paget, Shemar and Thomas, of course, need to come back as well. I'm hopeful they will because I'm an optimist, at least Shemar and Thomas anyway. As for Paget, I really hope she comes back, but I don't wish anything ill on her pilot. May the best thing for Paget happen, whether that's the pilot or CM.
As for Rachel, while I don't think she'll be staying because JJ is coming back, if she does, I will probably be a little less distracted by her but my opinion stands: her character doesn't fit. Still, I would be more accepting I think.
Aaaaand, yes! I'm excited to see what happens, though neverous still.
Oh!!! And I just transfered jobs (I work at Disney World and transferred from the parks to resorts) and my new coworkers are CM fans! I about died of relief.
Hah okay time to sleep!
To be honest, I have just recently discovered Criminal Minds. I had to catch up with the past seasons and I fell in love with the show.
i was heartbroken when JJ and Emily left the show, but when it was recently announced that JJ will be back, like Loren - I am really happy.
About Seaver, I think, it is best to develop her character. She's not as memorable as the others but I like Rachel Nichols because she seems to be a genuinely nice person. I hope they keep her but give her a little more spice.
I am hopeful that Mr. Gibson and Mr. Moore stays. My favorite characters are Reid and Garcia but it would not be the same without Hotch and Morgan around. Besides, I really think it's cute when Morgan exchanges flirty messages with Garcia. Hotch's occasional deadpan humor is also nice.
Anyway, I hope the cable channels here in Asia speed up the showing of CM. As of now, we are just in the 3rd episode of the sixth season and I can't get enough. =)
Am excited that JJ is coming back but i will be even more excited if Emily should come back. like Loren am trying to be optimistic about all this hassle and am sorry if it makes me selfish but i wish ill on Pagets pilot....lol i love her so much but i love her character Emily even more......
And am pretty sure Thomas and Moore will come back, thou i wont be that bombed if Moore doesn't but i will get rid of everything i own of CM if both Hotch and Emily leave, and trust me its a lot things!!!1
I am delighted with AJ Cook's return, expecting that Thomas Gibson & Shemar Moore will be re-signed without further ado, & still holding onto hope that Paget will return to the show as well. I wish her success, though, whichever she decides.
To the writers: If the Seaver character won't be let go of for S7 & you intend to still have her work as a profiler on the team, PLEASE make her a credible one by writing her as having gotten the requisite credentials/expertise to belong on the BAU. For me both the unpleasantness that the fans & the criticism that the character had to go through was unnecessary & could have been avoided, had you written the character with better qualifications & arguably more gumption. As the writers through the seasons have themselves emphasized on the show, the BAU is not a training ground & should not be portrayed as such again.
I have a sense that mistakes that were committed are being sought to be rectified with the comeback of JJ. I hope the correction encompasses acting with greater respect toward the cast members; having the writers be more familiar with the characters so that there will be no more out-of-character portrayals; having better consideration of the viewers' intelligence & discrimination (i.e., no more sympathy ploys to gain acceptance for main characters; we want to be able to respect them); & basically not messing with something that works fine. Maybe having one of the cast as exec producer, as has been suggested, would ensure that TPTB will desist from any further attempts at tinkering & steer clear of the show.
OMG JJ is back... I am beside myself with joy. <3 CM.
Ok, wrote this on a different thread, but guess I'll write it here as this seems like the bes place to write it, expanding and revising some thoughts...... I am sooooo happy that AJ is coming back to the show. I can't wait to see her in the opening credits again!!!!!! I am curious how she will be integrated into the season finale; it is being stated that AJ will make a guest appearance in the season finale.
I'll say that I agree that it is unfortunate that Nichols got mixed up ein such a highly charged AJ/PB nightmare that the network created. It is a reality that perhaps any actress would have run into coming into that position. That being said, I do think that the best thing to do is to move on from the Seaver character and try and get the show back to some sense of normalcy after such a challenging season. Not a challenging season ratings wise, no, the ratings have remained steady, normalcy in the sense of characters for the show; I really miss that!!!. For various reasons, the Seaver character hasn't fit into the show and to try to keep making that work, I think, would be a mistake. This is aside from the whole people thinking that JJ and Seaver are basically twins and not desiring to see that play itself on screen. If this character had been written in a Prentiss or Rossi type way, I believe that this transition would have been smoother which is perhaps something to think about if Paget chooses not to come back; creating an alternate character to take over the Seaver character if JJ is not coming back as a profiler. If anything, I think the Seaver character has illustrated what most fans will react positively and negatively to and despite which side one falls on that spectrum I think that is something hat has proven itself to be true throughout these months.
On some level, I think Nichols must have expected the resistance to her character and I don't think can be terribly shocked that the Seaver character has not been well received by a large portion of the fan base. Of course, she must have been holding out hope, but I think she must have to admit that by and large it is not working. Unless there is some contractual constraint, honestly, I would not understand the motivation of the network and show to continue on with this character given everything that has been discussed at length here and at different forums for what seems like ages. Given the background of that character, even with the JJ character back on the show, I don't anticipate that would change and I'd personally like to enter into season 7 with characters that maybe not everyone will like, but whose background, experience, and qualifications fit with the BAU. Starting from that base, I think, would give any potential replacement for the Seaver character (if Paget does not return) a chance for growth, development and general acceptance from fans, at least on an experience and qualifications level.
Continued....
I truly do not have anything against Nichols and really do wish her the best in her future endeavors, but I feel that this is an experiment, well intentioned as it may have been, that just hasn't worked. Thread after thread here has painfully shown that to be true. Season 7 should start off with a fresh move back to the type of team members that a team like the BAU demands and has previously always fulfilled with its characters.
I am desperate for Paget to return. I would so love to see the season 7 opening credits with the originals. With that said, I too do not want to wish bad vibes on her pilot. Paget has expressed excitement over her pilot project and so if it is something that she is still excited about, gets picked up, and she wants to pursue, then I will make sure to tune in. I want what she wants. Lastly, I hope the Gibson and Moore contract situations will be resolved soon!!! How terrible would it be for them, the show, and the fandom to enter into another summer of discontent. Please CBS, ABC Studios, please work on a swift resolution to these gentlemen's contracts. CM needs them just as the fans need them.
Part 1:
Asian Fan, once again, you have beautifully captured so many points. To start, yes, if for whatever reason the Seaver character is brought into season 7 then please write this character in a more credible way. I don't know how that could be done given the type and level of experience and expertise that this type of specialized team requires, leading right back into the discussion that has been going on since this character has arrived on the CM scene. While the whole newbie, rookie thing could have worked for maybe the spin- off whose characters I've read are a bit on the unconventional side, or a show with a team that is not as specialzied like the BAU, I simply do not see how that will ever work with the BAU. To quote Asian Fan, "For me both the unpleasantness that the fans & the criticism that the character had to go through was unnecessary & could have been avoided, had you written the character with better qualifications & arguably more gumption. As the writers through the seasons have themselves emphasized on the show, the BAU is not a training ground & should not be portrayed as such again." This is key for me and for many fans, the fact that a character is written into the show that falls in line with what has always been stressed throughout the seasons on the show. The BAU is indeed not a training ground and should not be portrayed as such, there is no need for it to be. The oomf behind the BAU is that it can boast and take pride in its elite and specialized status. This is not something that someone picks up along the way there, this is something that should have already been estabished and earned prior to stepping one foot onto the team.
The reason why a character like Reid who was given special permission to join the team fits despite having the years of experience needed is because he is so out of the norm intelligence wise that it makes the BAU stand out even more as a place that demands that level of specialness to get permission to join if lacking the experience. The BAU is something extraordinary and I long for the days when it can go back to being written as such, supported by characters that can add into that. I agree with Asian Fan that getting the JJ character back on the show (WOOHOOO! Hope Paget returns too!) is recognition of the mistakes that have been made. I'll quote Asian Fan again as Asian Fan stated it better than I could have "I have a sense that mistakes that were committed are being sought to be rectified with the comeback of JJ. I hope the correction encompasses acting with greater respect toward the cast members; having the writers be more familiar with the characters so that there will be no more out-of-character portrayals; having better consideration of the viewers' intelligence & discrimination (i.e., no more sympathy ploys to gain acceptance for main characters; we want to be able to respect them); & basically not messing with something that works fine. Maybe having one of the cast as exec producer, as has been suggested, would ensure that TPTB will desist from any further attempts at tinkering & steer clear of the show."
Part 2:
I sincerely hope that the return of AJ signals a move to show this cast greater respect, that the OOC writing issue will be a thing of the past, and that greater respect for viewers intelligence and discrimination are shown by ending sympathy ploys, and I'd add using characters to validate other characters. I too do not have anything against Rachel Nichols who seems like a nice woman. From day one, my issue has always been the Seaver character and its illogical fit in the world of the BAU. I don't know when the line between the character and the actress got blurred for some, but keeping it on track, it is about the character.
I hope that AJ's comeback is symbolic of a return to the BAU that captured my love and respect. The BAU that the show's creator and past writers have so painstankingly worked to cement and build up. Please return that to us with the writing and characters that work with that framework, then kindly step away and leave the show alone.
AJ coming back, yes, oh YES!!!!! Finally, someone over at the network had an Ah Ha moment and woke the hell up to the reality that she NEVER should have been booted off of the show in the first place. I'm tired of network execs who sit in offices all day dictating and shoving stuff at viewers that suck especially when nothing should have caused that to happen in the first place. The Hotch, Reid, Rossi, Morgan, Prentiss, JJ and Garcia team was perfection and why anybody thought that was good to mess with is crazy. Just thinking about how badly the team has been decimated fills me with anger but JJ is coming back so that is one step in the right direction. I hope that it is not too late to get Paget back on the show. I am totally onboard with her pilot if it gets picked up but damn I want Prentiss back on the show too. She is a BIG part of the show and it would be a shame if it continued on without her. However, I will manage to move on from that IF a suitable character is put in her place. Getting AJ back is terrific but that will not close my eyes to or make it any less real to me that there is a character on the show that does not fit. This must be a slogan of sorts by now but it is the truth, the Seaver character does not fit; attempts made, attempts failed. Moving on much further with this character makes absolutely no sense to me, unless you guys are afraid of being "Sheened" by this woman in court, then the time to stop the insanity is now. I have no doubt this actress will move onto projects that will be bigger and better for her because they will be a fit for her.
Do I even need to add that this contract situation with Thomas Gibson and Shemar Moore is ridiculous? Bringing AJ back shows me that there is some capacity to realize mistakes and correct them, don't make another mistake by not stepping up with these guys contract.
After the chat with Thomas yesterday and his comment eloquently asking the fans to show more support of Rachel Nichols - I hope that is exactly what happens.
Did TG say that Anon? Good for him. Nice chap. Rachel Nichols deserves respect, and a little kindness by now I should imagine. I'd hate to think the cast and crew are starting to feel frustrated or disappointed with CM fans. She does good work on the show IMO, and the character as conceived has got potential. Be interesting to see how the show manages its very big cast next year.
UK viewer
I`m happy for AJ Cook, I`m not trilled that JJ is back . I did not miss the character even though I wanted to miss her. I hope her being back does not mean that we again get lots of episodes with children and parents like "Public Enemy", "Mosley Lane" and "Solitary Man" in season 5. Children are not really my favorite subject in a crime show and the episodes reduced JJ to her being a mother.
I hope Thomas Gibson , Shemar Moore and maybe even Paget are back in season 7. Getting JJ back does not make up for losing Hotch or Morgan (or Paget). And I hope they keep Nichols/Seaver. I made my peace with the character.
And no endlessly ongoing personal drama story arcs please. They take away too much time from the cases and leave not enough room for profiling scenes.
:)
I am so so pleased that AJ is coming back! It will be so good to have JJ back. I can't wait!
And it's sorta OT, but -- my daughter told me yesterday, with great excitement, that Disney is starting a new show "about Reid in high school". Ummm ... what?
Turns out they have a new show called "The ANT Farm". ANT = Advanced Natural Talent, and it's about three very gifted pre-teens trying to survive as high school students. The most interesting kid has an eidetic memory. I'm giving credit to CM and MGG for making "smart" = "cool". Also for teaching my 9 year-old the meaning of eidetic. (We won't discuss the other words I've had to explain. Oi!)
I was in that chat as well and appreciate that TG came out and asked people to give RN some support. I don't doubt that he and the rest of the cast and crew like who she is as a person, however, I wouldn't expect him to say anything different with respect to RN. I'm sure that he, the rest of the cast and the network have caught wind of the reaction of fans towards that character, and maybe I am a little jaded, I wouldn't doubt that he received a little nudge or somehow knew he was to say something along those lines. Don't doubt that he was sincere, just that there are things that I am sure the actors, writers, etc. at CM are expected, if not encouraged to say. Yet, that does not take away from the flaws inherent in the character that she plays on the show. And while I have nothing personal against RN, I will not simply overlook issues in the character that she plays, issues I believe are hindering the quality of the show as well as the other characters (out of character writing). Moreover, if one takes a look outside of this forum, the issue with that character is one that stretches far and deep, and this is not including those people who do not participate on forums but who have commented briefly in different areas. The character is not being well- received across the board and I suspect that may rise with AJ coming back to the show.
I am excited that AJ is coming back, and like others have stated, I hope that it is a sign of a committment to return this show to the caliber of characters (and writing) that it once pumped out in a consistent basis. The key to that is to have characters that will allow the writers to write in a way that that will flow through. The Seaver character does not achieve that because it is so outside of the realm of the show that was created that it will inspire more out of character writing, etc. What was trying to be achieved with that character was not achieved which is an opinion I am making based not only on what has been written here and elsewhere, as well as my own viewing experience, but also on the fact that an actor is coming out, what is it 3 or 4 episodes until the end of the season, to ask that people give support. Something is wrong here and to continue to believe for whatever reason that it will work is not wise in my opinion. There is no need to carry this character into season 7, whether or not Prentiss returns and based on what has happened so far I strongly feel that would be best for the show.
I think RN does merit a chance but a chance in a different project where hopefully her character will fit with the project.
Just to calrify, I made the comment that it may get worse if the Seaver character is still on when JJ arrives full time is not because of AJ the actress. AJ is professional and cordigal, as I expect RN is too. I was pointing to the comments I've seen that have said things like "Now that JJ is coming back, no need for the clone to be there," etc. Some have even gotten angry at the possibility that the network may request that RN dye her hair (or worse that AJ would dye her hair- please based on the comments I've seen that would be an epic bad idea) to another color just to try and "fool" the audience into thinking she is not a clone. That is what I was referring to, not the actresses themselves.
Happy that JJ returns to the BAU. Her character brought another dimension to the team just as Garcia does in her role.
As for Seaver...I find the character stilted and very difficult to get a "feel" for. However, it's best to remember that (a) she is reading lines prepared for her and (b) she is working at the hands of directors -- who will tell her what he/she wants of the character.
I see the Seaver character as a novice, one who is learning to use the skills taught in being a profiler. It has given us an insight to the fact that they don't just "show up" and know everything.
And I feel for the actress who portrays Seaver. Can't have been easy to come in on the heels of the departure of a beloved cast favourite.
The most important thing to remember -- it's a television programme. It isn't real. These aren't real people. It's entertainment which we choose or reject. And life goes on, right?
I’m so thankful for the fact that we have some place to talk about this show and that, surprise, TPTB may actually listen. So for that, thanks Jill.
And thanks for the chat last night, as always, Thomas was wonderful.
Now, how happy am I that JJ is coming back? I'm so happy, I'm giddy, and all hopeful again.
The fact that this is the first good news that CM fans have gotten this whole season, says a lot too. It's good to know things may be going back to normal.
Now, all I need is Paget back, and I'll be a happy girl. Even if her pilot gets pick up, because I love her in comedy, I'd still love if Paget could at least show up to wrap her open storyline, in one episode or two or 20. I just don't want the team thinking she is dead forever.
Seaver: what can I say, I like Rachel. Really liked her on The Inside, and even though I've gotten used to her character, meaning Seaver doesn't annoy me as much, I still have to be honest and say her character may be a lost cause.
And no one here is blaming Rachel for this.
Blame it on the initial situation.
Blame it on the fact that even stating for 5 seasons that the BAU was an elite team, the writers still thought the fanbase would accept a cadet joining it.
Blame it on the fact that her becoming a regular was announced the same day AJ was having her last episode. And blame it on the fact that she became a regular, even though her character haven’t even been introduced yet.
Or you could blame it all on the simple fact that maybe, instead of introducing a new character in a season with so many actor complications already, maybe TPTB could’ve just waited for AJ and Paget to leave and then introduce someone new.
If it’s one thing or the other or all together, the situation still is what it is. The character has been received very badly by most and is still on the bubble after 10 episodes, that says a lot.
So question is, what do you do now?
That is not up to us, fans, but it says a lot when CBS, who started this whole mess, is actually able to admit their mistake and re-hire both actresses back, but the producers and writers on criminal minds aren’t willing to admit that the character they created doesn’t fit the show they created. How much more can you push for a character to be accepted?
Honestly, even if Paget doesn’t come back, I’ll be fine with just Garcia and JJ, especially because JJ is always working in the field and, in case we can’t get Prentiss back, I actually think the show would work just fine with 6 regulars instead of 7.
We’ll see.
I’m still watching and I’ll still be watching next season.
That is, if CBS brings Gibson and Shemar back.
I know what you mean "peace", I do, but I think it is an odd thing to have to say about a character on a show, especially one that is not integral to the show, or worse yet, one that is bringing down the foundation and premise of the show (elite and specialized unit). I'll say it too, I don't have a problem with the actress, don't particularly care for her portrayl of the character, but that is not something I do hold personally against the actress. My issue is with the character and that is not going to change. This is not the end all be all of characters for CM. My hope is that one will be created that will replace the Seaver characater if Paget does not return. Who knows, depending on how JJ comes back, maybe there won't even be a need for an additional character beyond JJ, Garcia, Hotch, Morgan, Rossi, and Reid. If there will be a need, then please I am begging that it be a character that doesn't invalidate the experience and expertise of the team due to its inexperience; this is what this character does because it is just not at the level of the others and should not be putting the other characters in the position of training agents. A suitable character can be created and inserted into the show, again, if Paget does not return. I don't want to make "peace" with a character like I make "peace" with things that cannot be changed in my life, this situation, character, can be and should be changed. There is no reason that has been reported why that cannot be. It has been done on other shows on CBS and I don't see why that wouldn't be the case here.
I want to enjoy a character and be able to respect what that character brings to the BAU. I hope season 7 can begin with a fresh start back to that.
Again, I understand what the previous commenter meant by "peace" and am not trying to mix my definition with that commenters.
SO SO SO excited that "JJ" is coming back to us. Finally starting to feel optimistic about CM's future again. Can't wait to see her "re-entry" episode. Love you, AJ!
On a side note, anyone see the two cute pix of MGG in the May issue of Vogue? Check it out: http://www.vogue.com/magazine/article/natalia-vodianova-chateau-california/#/magazine-gallery/chateau-california/5 (advance slide show to see the second pic)
Alana said,
"And no one here is blaming Rachel for this.
Blame it on the initial situation.
Blame it on the fact that even stating for 5 seasons that the BAU was an elite team, the writers still thought the fanbase would accept a cadet joining it.
Blame it on the fact that her becoming a regular was announced the same day AJ was having her last episode. And blame it on the fact that she became a regular, even though her character haven’t even been introduced yet.
Or you could blame it all on the simple fact that maybe, instead of introducing a new character in a season with so many actor complications already, maybe TPTB could’ve just waited for AJ and Paget to leave and then introduce someone new.
If it’s one thing or the other or all together, the situation still is what it is. The character has been received very badly by most and is still on the bubble after 10 episodes, that says a lot.
So question is, what do you do now?
That is not up to us, fans, but it says a lot when CBS, who started this whole mess, is actually able to admit their mistake and re-hire both actresses back, but the producers and writers on criminal minds aren’t willing to admit that the character they created doesn’t fit the show they created. How much more can you push for a character to be accepted?
Honestly, even if Paget doesn’t come back, I’ll be fine with just Garcia and JJ, especially because JJ is always working in the field and, in case we can’t get Prentiss back, I actually think the show would work just fine with 6 regulars instead of 7.
We’ll see.
I’m still watching and I’ll still be watching next season.
That is, if CBS brings Gibson and Shemar back."
This continual pushing, and pushing, and pushing, and pushing, and you have to accept and we're creating scenarios and episodes so that you can accept, accept, accept, is just out of touch already. There has to come a point like the network where the reality of the issue is seen and steps are taken to remedy it instead of pushing forward with the same issue, in this case, a character. CBS seeking AJ out IS a sign that they know it was a mistake to fire her and that mistakes were made with Paget. To their credit, they are taking responsibility for this and are taking active steps to correct it.
I too would be fine with 6 instead of 7 if Paget did not return to the show.
Just checking in and copying & pasting a comment I made on the thread us "geeks" (I'll take that as a compliment, gubegirl!) were loitering on at the weekend.
As an aside from that thread, I found Patrón for sale online over here - muchos £££. With the way things seem to be looking up on the show, it may not be necessary now?
**********
Ooooooh! AJ Cook returns!! Fabulous news. I really hope Paget Brewster also returns, but don't want to send bad vibes to her new show. *Dilemma*
Wonder that the future holds for the Seaver character? While I certainly wouldn't miss Seaver, I'd feel bad for Rachel Nichols if she's given the boot - it's not her fault she got caught up in CBS's pathetic little games. *Another dilemma*
**********
Yeah, the nice room with the rubber wallpaper looks enticing...
The thing to with push, push, accept, accept that Alana and Ely point out is that this never had to be done on this scale for Prentiss and Rossi. Why, because regardless of whether people accepted them back then or accept them now, their characters were so well conceived and fit within the show that something like them not having the validity to be there following the way the show was created, stressed, and written is not something that compounded an already difficult situation. This is not the case with this character which has been dragged out here and will continue into season 7 if the character returns, it will and I think there needs to be honesty about that above all.
I am glad that TG is saying that to the fans that don't like seaver. They have to respect her.
I have no doubt in my mind in season 7 she will be developed to a great character.
And now when JJ is back the hate for her will eventually mostly die off it has already begun to die off i think with the episode last week where she did really good.
Also from the chat it really seems like he is in no danger not being in season 7.
Michael,
HOW did you get that TG is not in danger of not getting a contract when he clearly stated he has been negotiating for several months, wants to come back and still has NO contract?
the way he joked around and all i think he is in no danger not to mention the show would be dead without him and CBS or ABC knows that
I think it is interesting now that Seaver has graduated from the academy Hotch has taken more of an interest in her experiencing life as a profiler. It was like when she was a cadet she wasn't worth his time to train as a profiler. Hotch is an excellent profiler trainer, he is patient, tolerant and very open to helping his rookie and newbie agents gain experience under his watchful eye. It was good of him to take Seaver into the house and give her the opportunity to gain experience. He did that with Reid, he did that with Prentiss, and I am sure that when Morgan first joined the team he did that with him. None of our current profilers began in the BAU with nothing more than knowledge, no experience as profilers. They gained that experience in the BAU under the watchful eye of Hotch or in Rossi's case Hotch gained it under him. I like that there is a newbie and rookie profiler needing experience to become a profiler.
I respect the hell out of TG and all of the actors on CM, including RN, but TG can't speak toward my liking and/or acceptance of a character. He said what anyone in his position would have said being that he may have anticipated that question coming up, not that he would have answered any differently, but that is not something that is now going to make me instantly throw out the flawed and ill-conceived character that is Seaver. MGG could come out saying something and that would not have changed my mind in the slighest about the Seaver character and I adore MGG.
Hotch taking Seaver in with him to speak to the unsub, I am just going to point people back to what sdwally said in the other thread, hint, out of character completely for Hotch. Understand where they were trying to go with that, but just out of sorts being that it was Hotch, something that this character inspires.
I don't have any ill- will towards this actress but this character was doomed out of the gate, something that points directly back to CBS and CM. AJ coming back is not something that I see will temper feelings about the Seaver character, I don't see that at all. What I see AJ coming back as is an opportunity to steer CM back on course. I really hope that CBS, ABC Studios, and Messer do that and if Paget comes back, great, if not, please create a character up to snuff for the BAU, or depending on how JJ comes back, leave it at 6.
The fact that there is still this swirl around this character is a glaring red light that should not be ignored. It is time to move on from this character. AJ is coming back, hopefully Paget will follow suit, her choice.
Did you guys also see that AJ will be appearing in the season finale?
I am thrilled and so very happy that AJ/JJ will be back. But all of that would be worth nothing should Thomas or Shemar not return, IMO.
As for Seaver: It's so sweet of TG to speak up on Rachel's behalf. She clearly is a sweet person and well liked among her cast and crew mates. And why shouldn't she? But I also can't lie. I gave Seaver a chance, but I just can't warm up to her. I am the end-consumer of a product called CM. And if this product or certain aspects of it are not to my liking, I think I have a right to put my finger on it and name it. Like, when I love a special brand of chocolate and suddenly they change the recipe and add raisins to it. And I don't like raisins, so I would complain. Same with the Seaver character. To me, she just doesn't fit in.
Nonetheless, I am looking forward to the last three episodes of the season and hopefully the season-finale won't have a cliff-hange that makes me lose my sleep to much. :)
lauren J., I've heard that, but I don't know if it is true or not. Has that been confirmed that AJ will be appearing in the season finale episode? Does anybody know when that episode will appear?
The season finale is May 18. That news has appeared in several media sources, but you're right, they only have 4 days of shooting left and I haven't seen any tweets about AJ on set. Maybe it'll be a small cameo.
They are also re-running "JJ" on April 27.
I respect the hell out of TG and all of the actors on CM, including RN, but TG can't speak toward my liking and/or acceptance of a character.
He never asked anyone to like or accept the character. All he asked was that fans try to be more supportive of the actress because unfortunately there are many who can't seem to differentiate between the character and the actress. Fans can hate the character all they want, but it's never an excuse to direct hateful comments toward the actress. As TG said, all she's done is come into a difficult situation and handle it with the utmost professionalism. She doesnt deserve the treatment she's gotten from some and if you're not guilty then don't include yourself.
We've all seen it and the cast has seen it too and if the level of nastiness that's been directed at the actress hasn't bothered you then maybe you enjoy kicking puppies for grins too. I'm guessing that the tweets the cast and crew get that include nasty comments about Rachel Nichols surely make them wish the internet came with an idiot filter.
sf81387, I know that is what TG said, I was directing that more towards Michael, not at precisely what TG said because I think that is where Michael was headed based on his previous comments here. But thank you for clarifying those points, and yes your right feelings about a character should never extend themselves towards the actor or actress playing that character. They are two distinct things.
sf81387,
I'm sure RN does get some nasty tweets, but I think Twitter is probably a lot more of a respectful environment than the forums. It's a lot easier for people to be nasty behind the actors' backs than it is to be nasty to their faces. I've noticed that Seaver actually has quite a bit of support on Twitter. So if everyone's wondering where all the Seaver fans are, well, they're not here, but they do exist.
Aishah, I agree with you 100%. If there is this much back-lash on any particular character, then the PTD really should take heed.
RN will find her niche somewhere else - the character she portrays here has never been well received. I don't believe it's because of AJ and PB's situation, I believe it's in spite of that situation. I don't think RN/AS would have been well-received had the girls stayed on the show. She just doesn't fit - either personally or professionally (her character as written) - just my thoughts....
Side Note: Yeah - it seems like they're putting our show back together - can't wait and thank you!
No one is debating whether they exist or not, what is at debate, what should be at debate, is the character that RN plays, not RN. The problem comes when that line is blurred on either side.
I'm glad AJ/JJ is coming back to CM. I've always felt bad for RN because not matter what, she was going to get the short end of the stick. Maybe if she had been a brunette, redhead or of a different ethnicity, there MIGHT have been a bit less resistance to her addition to the cast.
I realize the writers have really fleshed the character out, but considering everything else that's been thrown at them this season, I almost find it understandable. I don't know how far in advance scripts are written/selected for the next season, but I don't think they had AJ/PB departure in mind. It seemed they had to scramble to make everything work, especially when they weren't sure about Paget. Under the circumstances I think they did better than I could have done.
As far as TG & SM are concerned, their contracts were up for negotiation this year anyway. And these things always take time. I hope the PTB have learned their lesson and give both actors whatever they want on a silver platter. They also need to give MGG the paybump he wants AND richly deserves.
The official word about next season's renewal will come out around the 3rd week in May. This is from our Twitter sources on the set. He can't comment on contracts, since he's not privy to that information. However, since we got the news about AJ/PB in June of last year, I'm sure we'll know about TM & SM about the same time.
All we can do at this point is keep our fingers crossed!
I'm so happy AJ Cook's coming back, she's one of my favourites and I'm looking forward to more JJ/Hotch scenes.
I just hope the good writing comes back too. Not that there hasn't been any good season 6 episodes, I loved the first two episodes especially, I just don't think season 6 has felt like Criminal Minds since then.
As for the Seaver character, I put that down to the behind the scenes crap and the writing. It was obvious from the start that those in charge wanted us to love Seaver as much as the other characters but they handled her coming on board all wrong and now it just feels like we're supposed to accept her character as she is.
I've got nothing against the actress it was predictable that she wasn't going to be received well with everything that as going on with AJ and Paget. And although she was one of my favourites on Alais, I just think the concept of Seaver and how she's portraying Seaver, is not meshing with Criminal Minds atm.
Anyway, I just want my old Criminal Minds back with intersting stories, actual profiling and the season 5 cast back and without the network or whoever it was screwing with the show.
I wouldn't mind seeing some tension especially with the whole Prentiss not being actually dead thing, I don't want it to be swept under the rug (eventhough I have to admit as much as I like Prentiss I really didn't like the whole superspy storyline) and more character development if the writers can remember continuity.
I'm sick of ranting now, but those are my thoughts!
Grace
Does anyone have any guesses how AJ will be scripted back on the show? I am sooooooooo excited that AJ is coming back!!!!!!!! All we need now is Paget to make it complete :)
I guess we should find out in the season finale. I read an interview somewhere with a couple of the writers and it said... possible little spoilers so apologies in advance if this isn't allowed
............................................................................................................................................ The season finale focus will be on the team and there will be a lot of uncertainty.
Thank TPTB for doing the right thing and getting AJ back. She must be somewhat satisfied at their apology/explanation/offer to sign back on for 2 more years.
Still unknown what her role will be? Part of the finale: She's BACK! But not saying for sure that it will be in her former role?
I am not surprised that TG would make such a request during the chat about supporting Seaver. The bad press that anyone would be picking up here would be enuf to turn anyone off and I'm sure that the other cast members can't help but be affected by it. It's the writers, etc. that must deal with it, and it is so far gone, I can't quite imagine how to make this situ right. It will remain a sore thumb and there is no ignoring that. It goes against all that we ever thought we knew about what it takes to be a member of the BAU.
That is all I care to say because I have grown very weary of the subject.
They have taken a big step by re-hiring AJ so maybe other errors and omissions will be addressed also. We can only hope.
Anonymous re: Vogue. Very cute pics of MGG. Will be headed to the CVS to snatch this off the stands for a better look:)
Since AJ isn't back yet, maybe we can at least look forward to some memorable music this epi? We need more than we got last week.
Nice hangin' with you over the wkend, GFs (you know who you are!) and BL: just leave the Patron alone for now. We'll see what the shipping is but it was only 14.99 at Trader Joe's yesterday...LOL
YES!!! J.J. is coming home! (Clearly, I am very excited.)
I'm not going to go on about the Seaver character except to say that I agree with those that say the character is not a fit and that I have nothing persoanl against the actress, it is the character I have serious issues with. Also, I am thrilled about the fact that AJ is coming back and I am crossing everything that can be crossed on my body that Paget returns. But what has me deeply concerned right now is Thomas and Shemar's contract. Thomas made clear in the chat that he definitely wants to return and that these types of delays for contracts are not uncommon, but that still does not make me any less worried. Shemar hasn't said word one regarding his contract status and that has me more concerned than Thomas, although Shemar seems like a more quiet person when it comes to topics like that. Does anyone have any information regarding Shemar's contract status?
I would be sick to hear that one or both of these men were not returning to the show. This simply shouldn't happen but I know that it can. Please don't let it happen, these men must return to the show!
You can't have people bypass Patron gubegirl :)
Someone mentioned Kate Bush a while ago when it came to the music, I think "This Woman's Work" would be great, but just about anything with Kate Bush would be great, she has such a haunting voice, very unique.
Contracts..... they need to get signed, sealed, and delivered for Thomas and Shemar!!!!
You know, with all the suspense being created with JJ's return, the hinted at uncertainty in the finale, contract negotiations... it wouldn't surprise me if the contracts weren't already done and that they not saying just to draw out the suspense, etc.
Not saying that's the case, but it does make one wonder.
Will someone please post a link of the Thomas Gibson chat trasncript? Please, I missed it.
Highly excited that AJ is back!
Optika, they don't post transcripts of the chat. People are allowed to paraphrase certain parts the chat here, I think.
Cindy: THAT was the song by Kate Bush that I always loved and had not heard in YEARS. When I found an old CD, Hounds of Love, was not on there and I set it aside and forgot about it again til you mentioned it. What a song...what a voice! If anyone ever starts talking music again, we'll get back to the plans for the soundtrack; ITMW, I will add it to the "Futures" list. Thanks!
Wish someone could have asked TG what the cast might think of a CM soundtrack or if they have any favorites of their own...or how the music affects their performance...Sigh...wasn't there, damn...
Let's all start planning for the finale now: we'll get our Patron, mix our fave drink (margaritas, of course!) and we can all dring together and celebrate AJ's homecoming! (BlimeyL, LMK, in case you need a care pkg to come your way LOL)
WE WILL BE POSTING A TRANSCRIPT THAT IS COPYRIGHTED TO THE BLOG. IT WILL BE LATER TODAY.
Oh, wonderful!! Thanks Criminal Minds Fan for everything you do here at the blog :)
I, for one, feel absolutely terrible for the reception Ashley Seaver has received from the Criminal Minds fanbase. Sure, she's a replacement character, but so was Emily Prentiss, and David Rossi. We warmed up to them pretty fast. Seaver is warm, friendly, open to everyone's opinions and she's willing to learn from them. She's not arrogant, and I'm sure that she'll develop personality... given time. =)
No, but seriously folks. Keep an open mind as to what she can bring to Criminal Minds, and her potential as a character.
So who's with me for giving the girl a chance... and if not, why not?
Sweet Carolina...? Really? You need to know 'why not'? After ALL the debate back and forth -
Ashley Seaver is not a credible character, plain and simple. On any and all levels, she is not what a BAU team member is/should be. If she had about 10-15 years of experience, then MAYBE she would qualify.
Come on - I appreciate you wanting to promote giving her a chance but she's been involved in about 9-10 episodes so far and it's just not working.
Thanks Criminal Minds Fan,
Now that at least one wrong has been righted... and after seeing Rachel Nichols other performances in movies and in ALias, I can be a bit more open to Seaver staying, however, she needs to be in the show in small doses if she stays. ANd she should be written more like the way she was written in The Stranger, not annoying, bearable to watch and deal with.
Rachel is very pretty and whatever happens, all the best to her as a person and on her career. I just dont like her on The Inside and on CM but if she stays then please, change her character a little bit, wnough to rectify and redeem her but hopefully not retconned or whatever.
I hope Paget comes back too. Or I hope that she is able to do both shows becuase My Life as An Experiment does sound very interesting. I just dont want another replacement on the show. And I think that TG and SM will both come back and that its just a matter of time. What is wrong with CBS anyway? Nina Tassler should be replaced and see how it feels. It could happen. John Galliano got fired from his own brand, though that may not be the best example especially since I dont really know the stiuation there. I am ecstatic that AJ is back and cant wait to see whats in store for JJ starting in the season finale. I wonder if the writers will tie in an Emily storyline somehow.
Criminal Minds Fan. so great you will post a transcript of Gibson's chat will you also do that with Messer's?
Just read someone's twitter account, wont say who just in case.
Apparently there is no word on Paget or Rachel, just AJ. TO me, this measn that they want Paget back and are waiting for her. Hopefully Paget comes back and Seaver gets a good sendoff.
Seriously? A transcript?
What made you change your minds?
Either way, GREAT, can you post the one from Paget's last chat?
Sweet carolina, how long have you been reading posts on this blog? I ask not as a snark but your question totally perplexes me given the amount of discussion based on the question you posted. I would highly recommend you starting on the threads from the beginning of that character until today. I think that will more than answer your question instead of delving back into that whole issue again. I don't think continually rehashing is needed given the amount of discussion already.
A transcript of Paget's chat would be lovely if that is possible.
Hey! They just broadcast the "JJ" episode on wednesday here in Poland and it was so sad to see JJ/AJ leave. But now I hear that she'll be back next season and that's the best possible news ever! I'm so happy.
Just wish Paget, Thomas and Shemar were back and Rachel gone or removed to the spin-off - I don't watch it anyway. :)
All the best to the whole CM cast!
Barbara from Poland
So said...
It would be the right thing, to let Rachel remain on the show. considering all the drama, that went on behind the scenes. Firing another actress, would look really bad by CBS. She should be here to stay, let us see this new character develop and surprise us.
Since there is no Birthday thread up for Shemar Moore and his Birthday is already on Wednesday, I might as well wish him a Happy Birthday in this thread.
Happy Birthday Shemar ! ! ! I hope you have a great day (even though you have to work at your Birthday ;)I hope to see you back as Derek Morgan in season 7 of Criminal Minds. No Morgan-no CM!
Anonymous siad...
"It would be the right thing, to let Rachel remain on the show. considering all the drama, that went on behind the scenes. Firing another actress, would look really bad by CBS. She should be here to stay, let us see this new character develop and surprise us."
Been in Hollywood much.. how about network TV much. Firing people from movies and shows is par for the course in those neck of the woods. I'm not trying to be disrespectful, but I hardly think that the Seaver character being removed would rise to the level of drama for CM as that when they fired AJ and messed with Paget. Certainly nothing close to what would happen if Thomas and Shemar were cut from the show. People are let go all of the time for different reasons, that would be no different here if that is indeed what is (and I think should) going to happen. That was outlined in the last thread, the precedence for that from other CBS shows.
Zagi, thanks for that information. I had no idea it was Shemar's birthday on Wednesday. I hope a thread is created. Happy Birthday Shemar!!!! Definitely must have you back for season 7!!!!
well it would look really bad, if they fired her, right when the actress she was supposed to replace came back.
Yes it will look bad to any new actress, that want to work with CBS. Why should any new actress even want to work with such dishonest people, that just cast you out like a lepper.
It will look really bad, no matter what the people that don't like seaver say.
Anonymous, if that were the case, actresses would have stoped working at CBS a long time ago. They don't have a good history with actresses over at that network. Just look at CSI for just one example. That is simply not a reason to keep a character that by and large has not been well received, not well conceived and just not a fit for the BAU/CM, in my opinion.
YAY, there is a thread up for Shemar's birthday. Come on everyone, let's go over there and make sure to wish him a happy birthday. Going over there now :)
well it would look really bad, if they fired her, right when the actress she was supposed to replace came back.
Yes it will look bad to any new actress, that want to work with CBS. Why should any new actress even want to work with such dishonest people, that just cast you out like a lepper.
It will look really bad, no matter what the people that don't like seaver say.
I don't think it'll look bad. Television is a business just like any other business and sometimes they have to make unpopular decisions and sometimes they make mistakes with those decisions. Regardless, whatever happens, just as it wasn't personal when they parted ways with AJ and Paget, it won't be personal if they part ways with Rachel.
It's business and it sucks to lose your job no matter what it is you do for a living especially in this economy, but she's young and pretty and I can't really speak for her talent because I'm not qualified to judge that sort of thing, but I'm guessing she'll land on her feet if she's let go, just as Thomas and Shemar will no doubt land on their feet if they have to find new jobs.
None of it makes the networks evil, dishonest people IMO. It's just business.
Tamara there is a growing trend now that people are beginning to like her
Anonymous - I seriously doubt that trend is going to grow much, if at all. The backlash has been too long and too severe. Not saying that things can't change but I think the writing is on the wall.
Could be wrong, but I doubt it.
Tamara there is a growing trend now that people are beginning to like her
I don't know if I'd go all the way to "like", but I think the news that AJ is coming back and the hope that Paget will too has made her more tolerable to some. I'm happily staying on my fence on the issue. Keep the character or don't, I don't care. : )
Anonymous, I don't doubt what you are saying, but he fact remains that it has been well over what like 9 episodes, I have lost count, and there is still this conversation going on. I really don't have an issue with the actress, she seems like a lovely person, it is the character that is at hand and I don't think it is a good one for the show and should not be continued for the aforementioned reasons. I am not going to go over them here because they have been beaten to death here and at other forums. I could recite them in my sleep by now and the reasons are reflected in every episode the character has been in for me so I just don't know what else to say. What will happen is up to the network, but I think there is much for them to consider, things that should not be ignored, moving into season 7, just as they have done with other shows.
Nanci, I agree with you, and sf81387 you made some good points in both of your posts.
Just curious, is there any significance in your screen name sf81387? :)
There was nothing wrong with her in "The Stranger" She was perfectly professional
Again, what I am saying is based on the characer itself and its collective showing on the show- everything that has been discussed at length here for months. Like I said, what will happen is up to the network, but I think there is much for them to consider, things that should not be ignored, moving into season 7, just as they have done with other shows.
It's not about whether she's professional, perfectly sweet, a nice person, etc...it's about the fit for the show - she is not! It's been hashed and re-hashed a million different ways and times.
Rachel Nichols might be a perfectly fine actress, but she is not now or ever will be a good fit for this series. Too many fans have stated too many reasons and that is not going to change in one short week.
As far as the backlash dying down, it might just be we are so overjoyed to have news of AJ coming back that RN/AS is not important to us anymore. After this week's episode, I can almost guarantee another round of 'what in the world' regarding this character. Having AJ back is not going to change the fact that RN/AS is not right for this show.
Have people started to receive their password for tonight's chat? I haven't received mine yet and I am wonedering at what point I should contact someone if I don't get it. I am in the Eastern time zone.
I got my password.
Yeah haven't recieved mine either. Really don't know why
Seconding Stacy - still a few hours to go but it's down to the wire for the password this time...
ah, I'm the third. that makes me feel better at least
Should we resend our initial request for a password again?
Just curious, is there any significance in your screen name sf81387?
Only to me. : )
I really hope they don't go with the idea that JJ has been taking the profiling classes while at the State Department. That would be absurd, especially since nothing of the sort was even mentioned during "Lauren." While they're at it they might as well say that Seaver gained 5 years of experience over the summer.
My guess is that JJ will continue to be the exposition character extraordinaire that she always was. Maybe some extra State Dept-ish abilities thrown in the mix.
I'd wait another hour or two, want to avoid pestering as long as possible. but your concern is understandable, it's never taken this long before.
let's keep each other posted if we hear
Thanks Jill. Definitely, let's keep each other posted.
I would go ahead and email now if I were you. I got my password at 8am this morning. If it hasn't come by now there's been a mix-up and you should start the process of correcting it. The same thing happened with the Paget chat and people had to email again for the password.
8am EST? If so, agreed - Stacy, let's just e-mail now
Okay, will do that.
AJ is back baby!!!
All I need is Paget....=(
FYI: Saw the pics of MGG in Vogue's May issue - currently on the stands but in only 1 out of 3 stores. Passed on the temptation to buy a copy just for the 2 pics ($8.49??!! when did mags get so expensive?) It's not Patron, ya know..LOL
On-line article allowed me to print them OK. The small one with whatever it is in his mouth is the best. Hope I am not the only OCD geek who feels the compulsion to have some of these specially cute pics of our guys:)
Since I will off to yoga tonite, pls, somebody ask Erica what the staff might think of the idea of a CM soundtrack. Puh-lease! Before we put much more effort into it! I hope to continue to discuss music used in the upcoming epi's because I think it adds tremendously as far as setting the mood, tempo; increases intensity of whatever's on the screen at that time; can take you where maybe pictures don't or can't, instead, the music leads your imagination; gets the heart going...makes us get more into the show, etc...It's hard for me now to hear a song without considering if it might "fit" on CM!
Just got the e-mail yes!
Haven't gotten mine yet :-(
You have to be a member of this blogs forum right?
Not a member of anything special, just posting here. I think this links to gmail accounts. Plenty of time left it turns out, saw on the blog chat moved to Wed. Disappointed we have to wait for the BIG news promised, hopefully will brighten an otherwise dismal Wednesday (other things besides the lack of a new episode).
damn i sent with hotmail. maybe that is why
Just got home and saw that I got my password but didn't realize that the chat was moved. Did this just happen now?
yea, I only saw a new post on the blog a little while ago. password's kept the same so we're all set Stacy
Okay, thanks Jill! It is going to kill me to have to wait, :)
Regardless of how TG sounded in the chat, I'm still really worried. I know HE wants to come back but after all the stunts cbs pulled this year, I don't trust them one bit.
There hasn't been a lot of Hotch this year or even in the last half of last season and that sucks since he is my favorite character. I feel the show is so much better when he is there in teh forefront. If tptb are reading this, pleeeeeease sign his contract soon and make sure we get more of him next year! :)
Amy, count me in as one who wishes there was more Hotch and a TG contract renewal SOON!!! Without him, CM will be banished from my TV.
If you needed many years of experience to be on the BAU, then the only profiler on the team would be Rossi. None of them started on the BAU team with any experience as profilers. They all started in a similar fashion to Seaver, except for Prentiss who claimed to have ten years of working for the agency but we know that was a lie, she worked for another agency. None of the current agents had experience or many years of time for the agency. Like many elite groups - Red Berets, Blue Angels, SWAT - there are those with experience and there are new people with knowledge but no experience. The BAU is like that.
One thing I remember about the chat (I hope it's ok to comment about it here) is that TG doesn't know why they have utilized Hotch so little this season.
Why, PTB, why?
We want more Hotch, always more Hotch!
Get it together, writers!
And CBS, get it together also and renew TG and Shemar's contract already.
I know, I know, they aren't drug addicts and women abusers like you'd prefer to use it as the face of your network, but why can't you just be happy with the fact that they are WONDERFUL actors who help make a great show successful?
Amy, I agree. Hotchner is so integral to the team and the show. CBS, sign TG to a nice big contract. Insist on some decent screen-time. I miss him so much this year. :( He's supposed to be the lead but was pushed into the back. I get it that each character needs a turn but this has been more than that and CM isn't as good this way. I hope we get lots more of him for the rest of this season and next year.
Christy, what???? Hotch had years of experience in different posts before coming to the BAU; Morgan was a cop for a few years I believe and I think he may have had a stint at the ATF, Elle was a detective at the Sex crimes Unit in Seattle prior to joining the FBI, Gideon had years of experience at the FBI, Rossi as you already stated was one of the founders of the BAU, Prentiss, we know now was at Interpol for several years prior to joining the FBI, Reid was exempted into the BAU because of his brilliance. The bottom line is that all of the profilers had the type of experience and expertise in certain areas that allowed them to join the BAU. You don't have to have been profiling per se to get into the BAU, but you do have to have professional experience and/or degrees coupled with experience to get into the BAU, experience and knowledge that lends itself to profiling. Seaver barely graduated from the FBI Academy, she is a probationary agent. She doesn't have the years of experience, doesn't have an expertise, she doesn' have anything- she is starting from zero. The others didn't start at zero again with the exception of Reid. What type of elite and specialized team is filled with novices? It wouldn't be elite and specialized if that were the case. You have to have something of an elite and specialized nature to be able to join an elite and specialized team.
They did not have an excessive amount of years of experience and none of them came as profilers, only with the knowledge. Yes, they had experience in other fields but not in profiling. In order to attend the FBI academy, you must have three years of work experience is some field, you must have a bachelors degree or better and you must be twenty three years old. This is knowledge from the FBI website. So Seaver has experience of some type, a college degree and is in her mid-twenties. Reid was only exempted for his age and until he was twenty-three, he was considered an agent but a intern. He mentioned that in an episode earlier this year (I don't remember which one, but he stated that he had only been an agent for five years) In Tabula Rasa which indicated that the crime was in 2004 and the scene that Hotch took Reid to, Hotch said that Reid was their newest agent. It was his first crime scene and Hotch asked what he saw.
Hotch is currently about forty-two years old and he mentioned that his first case as lead profiler was Foyet in 1998, thirteen years ago. He could not have had ten years or more experience in 1998.
Morgan was 33 years old in 2006 during Profiler, Profiled which makes him about thirty-eight now. He said that he had been a member of the team for seven years at the pig farm (end of season four) which makes it nine years now. He could not have five years of experience when he joined the team.
Prentiss was forty when she died and had been a member of the team for five years, we now know that she was a member of the CIA before coming to the team and had no experience in the FBI. It is unknown how long she was with the CIA.
Elle, we don't what her age was but we know that she had experience in the sex crimes unit in Washington State. But she did have experience because Hotch trained and mentored her less than others (she was given the opportunity to interview a criminal shortly after joining the unit) This leads me to believe that she had some experience as a profiler. (But I doubt it was five years or more).
JJ is only about three years older than Reid, her experience is only in communications no knowledge or experience as a profiler except what Hotch has given her as the BAU liaison.
Christy, elite and specialized units require a certain degree of education, work experience and knowledge that warrant that elite and specialized title- not a college degree and pre- FBI work experience (Rossi said that one had to be placed in a field office for about three years). Seaver simply does not have what rises to the level of elite and specialized, you can't compare her to any of the others on the team. Does she have some sort of education like a college degree, okay, yes, but this is not enough for the BAU that is the point. If it were, it would be no big deal that she is there, not just for the viewers but the show itself who tried to set her up as special in some way because her dad is a serial killer, this was supposed to be her in because she didn't have any other in. Never mind that she had no knowledge of her dad being a serial killer until after he was arrested.
If Reid weren't an uber genius, he would not have gotten on the team. Gideon brought him on because he is intelligent on levels unseen.
The way some of us choose to see it is this:
The BAU as portrayed on CM has never articulated specific experience or educational requirements for entry. Most of the team members have had some ambiguous experience. Almost none of them have the education. We know from Reid that they can pretty much let in whomever they please if that person has a unique perspective that will be of value to the team. The writers of the show have articulated that Seaver's unique perspective that makes her an exception is that she actually lived a good portion of her life with a serial killer, rather than just having studied serial killers in books.
A lot of you don't agree with that logic: fine. Just saying there's a way to make it work if you so choose.
I agree Carmen and Seaver was brought in before she graduated the academy because Rossi thought that she could give insight into serial killers as parents. He knew who she was and who her father was because he caught the man and possibly met her as a child. That is why he brought into the unit, he chose to do so and he had the political clout to do so, just as Gideon had the clout to bring in Reid at an early age. We don't know what her college degree is or what type of experiences she has had, this knowledge has not been given out. Yes, to join an elite team a person does need to have been a probationary agent for the FBI for two years in a field office unless exceptions are made. Rossi seems to have made an exception for her.
Okay, but, she didn't contribute anything except the bit about the dog that went nowhere. Also, since then, nothing honey. If your life was not at all effected during the time you lived with this person to the point where you said that you lived a pretty ideal childhood, what are you contributing, the fact that you were clueless about living with a serial killer? Not saying she should have known because it seems like she was young when this was happening, finding out in her teens. But she doesn't even have basic information that she had to ask Reid about. It doesn't gel.
According to the FBI website.
Behavioral Analysis
The mission of the Behavioral Analysis Units (BAU) is to provide operational support for complex and time-sensitive cases and other matters through the application of investigative case experience, education, specialized training, and research. Each unit has distinct responsibilities:
Behavioral Analysis Unit 1 (counterterrorism and threat assessment): Resources are focused on matters involving terrorism, threats, arson, bombings, stalking, cyber-related violations, and anticipated or active crisis situations.
Behavioral Analysis Unit 2 (crimes against adults): Resources are primarily focused on serial, spree, mass, and other murders; sexual assaults; kidnappings; missing person cases; and other violent crimes targeting adult victims. BAU 2 also provides assistance in potentially non-violent investigations, such as white-collar crime, public corruption, organized crime, and civil rights matters.
Behavioral Analysis Unit 3 (crimes against children): Resources are focused on crimes perpetrated against child victims, including abductions, mysterious disappearances of children, homicides, and sexual victimization.
Services provided by the behavioral analysis units include:
Crime analysis;
Profiles of unknown offenders;
Linkage analysis;
Investigative suggestions;
Threat assessment;
Interview strategies;
Media strategies;
Search warrant affidavit assistance;
Prosecution and trial strategies;
Expert testimony;
Critical incident analysis; and
Geographic profiling (provided through an agreement with the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives).
It doesn't matter that she didn't have any information about her father as a serial killer. It matters that she has serious, in-depth experience and knowledge about the actions of serial killers in their daily lives.
I agree that "What Happens at Home" could have been written better to include a more significant contribution from Seaver. I wonder if something got cut from that episode.
Not enough Hotch this year!
Enuff said. Solve it for S7!
If you try to age crunch with this show you will go mad. There has never been any consitency with the characters ages relative to their experience. What was stressed is their experience, knowledge and expertise. This was their in, again, with the exception of Reid who is all types of genius.
There has never been anything shown that has been unique about this character; she's basically trotted behind the profilers asking questions at times, stating the obvious and sometimes ridiculous, unlike Reid who people got right away was someone whose uniqueness, his intelligence, is something that people would fight to get on their team. A geniune benefit that one can see why should be allowed in without what is needed.
Atticus said....
"It doesn't matter that she didn't have any information about her father as a serial killer. It matters that she has serious, in-depth experience and knowledge about the actions of serial killers in their daily lives."
What serious and in-depth experience???? She's never shown that, not in that episode or in any other episode. It isn't there. The seaon is almost gone; shouldn't take more than an episode for this to come out.
I agree that with you Carmen that she hasn't really been a great asset of knowledge about being the daughter of a serial killer but that doesn't mean that she can't learn about profiling from the finest profilers in the agency. It is a television show and because of that there is some 'artistic' leeway. It is like when people want to change history or books written about a historical time period because it has what we would consider offensive material in it. 'Artistic' license gives way to lies and misconceptions of truth.
Ugh, I agree that this character has got to go, but please, let's not twist ourselves up again in knots with this subject. People can feel free to peruse the blog and get their fill of this. I just want the team back which I know depends on whether Paget wants to return and I'll definitely respect her decision. She is great and truly missed! If she can't come back, leave it at 6 or please let's get going with a new character. Also, more Hotch in season 7 would be greatly appreciated! Give Gibson and Moore a good deal PTB! Can't lose these guys!
OOOH super excited that you'll be posting the transcript of TG's chat. You know, nothing has got me to open an account on facebook but TG was the reason i signed up on twitter - such a breath of fresh. I still don't have my first tweet, but anyway i enjoy seeing his really funny and cute little tweets.
About Season 7, i don't know what i'm going to do if Shemar and/or TG don't come back. Seaver is completely secondary to me...a blip at the corner of my thoughts.
Need more "Hotchflips" - my word for how in so many convos with the other characters, they flip the switch on boss man and ask him about what's bugging him - Morgan's done it (eg, Scared to Death and Hanley Waters), Rossi's done it, Prentiss, and oh that beautiful plane scene with JJ breaks my heart.
Gubegirl - i was listening to Cash's 'Sunday morning coming down" -- Holy Hotch, that's perfick for Hotch.
There is no such thing as the Behavioral Analysis Unit. In the FBI it is called the Behavioral Science Unit. The unit close to having profilers is call The National Center for the Analysis of Violent Crime (NCAVC).
What serious and in-depth experience???? She's never shown that, not in that episode or in any other episode. It isn't there. The seaon is almost gone; shouldn't take more than an episode for this to come out.
That's a flaw with the show, not this specific character. The CM writers write plots; they do not really write characters. The characters are more or less there to deliver exposition. If you pay attention, almost all of the characters' lines, with the exceptions of Reid and Garcia, are interchangeable. Seaver has basically been getting Prentiss' lines, because the writers don't know how to incorporate personality and backstory into a specific characters' dialogue concerning a case. They introduce a background story, then forget about it for the rest of the show only to dredge it up for one Very Special Episode per season. Like, Prentiss speaks several languages? Great, because we never saw that utilized on the show between her introduction and her exit.
Def can't lose TG! Bad enough we haven't had much of him this season; it sure shows. Bring back both TG and PB. The show wasn't broken before. Now fix it. Original cast back. Thats my wish for Season7.
Steph said...
"Def can't lose TG! Bad enough we haven't had much of him this season; it sure shows. Bring back both TG and PB. The show wasn't broken before. Now fix it. Original cast back. Thats my wish for Season7."
Yes, oh God yes Steph!!!
and oh that beautiful plane scene with JJ breaks my heart.
Truly one of the best moments on TV. When JJ and Hotch are on screen together, magic happens. Not of the romantic variety, just that they have great chemistry togethr. I am so very happy to have my JJ back. Please CBS, please get TG on board for Season 7 too!!!
It goes beyond that Atticus, but honestly, but ahhh, it has been said so many damn times here. I shouldn't have responded in the first place, my bad. I'll just point people to every thread here since this character has been on the show as my answer. Thankfully, they are archived here.
Which plane scene Jessica? What episode? I am going to scroll up.
Carmen, the one that Jim Clemente wrote. The teens playing the self asphyxiation game. I'm talking about the plane scene at the end with JJ and Hotch. Really beautiful and heartwrenching. AJ Cook and Thomas Gibson are masters at their craft. I'm glad CBS realized this with AJ. Thank you CBS!! But now they need to realize the same with TG!!!!
Carmen, sorry i am really bad with names - but the one with the suicides. ughhh, i'll look it up for you, promise, unless someone less forgetful pips me to the post. GREAT Hotchflip :0)
Eleven, Hotchflip! I love it!! I need to think of a saying for JJ too now!! As for music, I think "Are you gonna go my way" is fitting for badass Hotch. I am blanking on a song for JJ. Ugh, shame on me!
Yes, I know which one you are talking about now. That was a wonderful scene between TG and AJ. Looking forward to more of those types of scenes provided TPTB get on it with TG (and SM's) contracts. Really, what is going on there? Why is this taking so much time?
I got it! JJ's song: These boots were made for walking by Nancy Sinatra. Fun and flirty, but she won't hesitate to pistol-whip you or shoot you through a pane of glass if the need arises. Yeah JJ!!
Carmen, totally agree. I really hope TPTB don't make the same mistake twice. TG and SM are integral to the show. They are must-haves for Season 7 IMHO.
Yay to Hotchflips while TG flips his orage and choc chip pancakes! i don't know what's going on with the contracts - maybe it always takes this long and maybe we have too much time on our hands to brood about such things now when there is newsflow all day, every day.
I'm not sure i agree with the poster above about character development. i think they do a fab job with balancing so many characters and the crime story all in 42 minutes. Didn't happen so much in Season 1 and part of the reason I love the characters is that i sort of grew with them. Didn't happen so much with Gideon; he was already developed, rounded and fleshed out. brill actor, though.
Seriously, just the thought of JJ and Hotch exchanging furtive, knowing glances about their secret. And then their secret being revealed should Prentiss/Paget decide to return. Oh, the plot bunnies that ensue just tickle me pink and thrill me to pieces!! Seal the deal with TG please and let the writers breed their plot bunnies over the summer!!!
christyzachman, Carmem and Atticus.
Let's please agree to disagree and not turn this into another 400 repetitive comments thread.
You think one way, she thinks the other and he thinks different.
You all won't change your minds, some people don't care about canon and are able do enjoy the show just the way it is now; some people do care about canon but not enough to affect their viewing pleasure and some want a consisting show. Some like Seaver, some don't.
That's all fine, but you stated, she stated, he stated, but everyone is still on ground zero, so let it be.
Sorry, just don't want this thread closed too. I like having this space to comment.
Oh the plot bunnies....yum yum (reaches for inhaler and chocolate). Anyway, i really have to get to work (wrong timezone). if i don't i will be at the business end of a hotchflip meself. Later, peeps! gah, and i don't want this thread closed either :-( don't have too much fun!
Why would the thread be closed? Everyone was being respectful.
Agreed Laura! The wheels have been spun on that car way too much and it has not moved. I realized that when I was about to answer again and just left it at see other threads.
Jessica: are you speaking of the Lenny Kravitz tune? Pretty old, like early 90's; with lyrics something like...I am the chosen one...I won't leave til I'm done...really rockin' song! Like it alot. I will add it to the "Future Use" list. Yeah, let's talk tuneage instead of the controversial subjects that will get this thread shut down again.
gubegirl, yes that's the one :-)
1) As alot of posters here, I too am excited about AJ's return.
2) I was also in on TG's chat on Sunday. That said, I shouted a big "heck yes" when he made his comments about Rachel. It's very obvious by the various things I've seen online that she has fitted into the CM family. Please, don't hammer me over the head about the character discussion. That's been done here to infinity. It was just really great to see this wonderful man stand up for a castmate. And IMHO, he did with a, for lack of better words, without a gun to his head. I felt it was very genuine.
3) The contract situation. I thought TG was also very articulate with this. Yes, he stated that he wants to come back. He also stated he knows that negotiations are an ongoing and long process. My take is, TG is the man with a wife and three kids. I got the sense that he isn't worried about this. I'll take that and sleep very well.
Yes it was very kind of TG to make a stand for Rachel. It was clearly very important to him to stand up for her. And yes, he does have a wife and three kids to provide for. So I think his kindness, professionalism, hard work, and talent should be rewarded with a generous contract renewal from TPTB. TG for S7!! This message approved by TG fans everywhere.
Thrilled AJ will be back. Am seriously excited for the team's reactions when they find out about her and Hotch's lies. Particularly Reid (and Garcia to a lesser extent), since they're so close.
Now all the show needs is Paget back, and Seaver given the boot.
christyzachman said...
I like that there is a newbie and rookie profiler needing experience to become a profiler.
IMO, the last thing the show needs is a newbie profiler that needs everyone to stop the plot action because they need to explain to her that yes, that *is* blood she's looking at. CM does not need someone with "fresh eyes" to look at the cases. If the BAU needs Newbie Know Nothing in order to solve cases because the others are too jaded to see squat, that doesn't say much for the team as a whole, particularly the experienced profilers.
Now, if people were excited the new character was going to give them "fresh eyes" on the OLD characters, I'd consider this a valid point. It'd be fairly interesting to see an outsider's view of the team's interactions. Why do they let Reid get away with so much; wondering how Hotch can handle all the pressure he's under, especially since his wife died; in awe at the chance to work with Rossi - a founder of the BAU no less.
But they've squandered that opportunity with Seaver. She's written as so much a part of the team, not only do they act like they've known her for years, but she gets to be all pissy with Reid, all knowing with Hotch, etc etc. It's ridiculous.
Just have her go. Leave and never return. Get a newbie that not only makes sense, but an actress who can bring the character to life.
Anonymous said...
If you try to age crunch with this show you will go mad. There has never been any consitency with the characters ages relative to their experience. What was stressed is their experience, knowledge and expertise. This was their in, again, with the exception of Reid who is all types of genius.
Yeah, I'm still shaking my head at Christy's attempts to use timeline continuity errors as evidence Seaver somehow belongs on the team and that her pre-BAU experience is somehow equal to the others. Because really, it's age that matters, and not the years of experience. ;)
I'm also fairly stumped by the argument that none of the characters were Profilers before they became Profilers, which seems fairly obvious to me. I can't be a Teacher until someone actually hires me to teach somebody. However, I can have trained enough so that the moment I step into my job I fully earn the title of Teacher. Which Hotch, Reid, Morgan, Elle, and Emily have all done as Profilers given their experiences and prior knowledge, but Seaver has not.
And ugh, I hate having no edit button.
Hi, found this article from back in Season 3 on this very blog - http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/22769554
Good to re-read and rethink, especially re character development! and no, i'm not trying to rekindle discussions on Seaver (oh god, no), just why we perhaps still love our team to pieces.
Someone invited speculation regarding JJ's role upon her return. At the risk of repeating myself: I'm guessing she's going to become a profiler (remember when Hotch recommended she take the test?). She has the experience, and would plug a big hole.
This is a respectful request to my fellow "threaders" to drop the topic of RN/Seaver. I've had the same negative reaction to the Seaver character as most everyone else but it seems that the topic is beyond exhausted. What more can be said?
How 'bout we instead speculate about the direction the show might take in S7...and maybe offer up creative ideas? So much more fun and interesting...
It was so great to see Thomas stick up for Rachel about this unjustified hate. hell yeah!
Seaver will develop just fine
Someone invited speculation regarding JJ's role upon her return. At the risk of repeating myself: I'm guessing she's going to become a profiler (remember when Hotch recommended she take the test?). She has the experience, and would plug a big hole.
I'm guessing she's going to come back into the same role she played before as well as help Hotch tackle some of the new responsbilities that have just been dumped on him. This may even be the reasoning he uses to get her back. : )
I've been going back and forth about how JJ will reenter the team. At first, I thought it may be as a profiler, but then that scene with Hotch and Strauss made me think maybe she will come back to assist him with those new responibilities. On the other hand, if she were to come back as a profiler this would free up Hotch to be more able to fulfill the duties that Strauss gave him while still leading the team. I wish the episode were here already :) I am dying for JJ to get back!!! I am so happy she is coming back :) If Paget were to come back also that would make everything complete to be fantastic again!! The whole team back :)
Does anyone know what position/duties JJ currently has at the State Department?
Does anyone know what position/duties JJ currently has at the State Department?
I'm still confused as to how she left in episode 2 to work for the DoD and by episode 18 she was working for the State Department. ; )
I might be confused about JJ's original job profile. Wasn't she a journalist by training? How is she going to be a profiler now? Just *Pouf!*
It always seemed a tad risky to me that she was the one to sift the incoming cases to the BAU, rather than someone versed in behavioural analysis, for example. Lord knows what she let through the net. But I guess this illustrates that fans will accept the unlikely if it's embedded sufficiently early. Kind of like a kid absorbs the apparent normality of family life even if that family is über crazy/psychotic-killer-creepy. All that latent stuff. See where I'm headed? I'm not even subtle!!
UK viewer
Uk viewer what she chose for the team insofar as cases whas something that the team, led by Hotch, had to agree was worthy of taking on (more so Hotch because he is the Unit Chief). If she had been letting things fall through the cracks as you suggest, it would have been made known sooner rather than later as the cases that she may have let go would have potentially grown to include more bodies. Also, JJ, in more than one instance, chose cases that the team at first were not to thrilled about taking (at least some of the team members). Hotch, because he trusted in JJ's ability to pick the cases, went on JJ's advice to follow those cases through, and they ended up being viable cases for them to take. At the end of one of those sorts of cases, Hotch asked JJ if she wanted to take the classes to become a profiler.
JJ had skill sets in play to do her job, she came in with the experience to do so and built upon that experience, not the other way around.
Oh, that's an interesting angle, Fedra. What makes a case viable for BAU assistance -- is it body count or the nature of the crime? They're the opposite of the closed-world, tick-off-your-suspect-one-by-one Agatha Christie type crimes, where motive is king. It's almost the motivelessness or apparent randomness of the killings that marks out the crimes they investigate. Motive is more like pathology. So perhaps it wouldn't be body count but the brain of the unsub that would call for BAU involvement.
UK viewer
Is the chat trasncript up yet somewhere else? I thought it was going to be posted tomorrow and i really want to know what Thomas Gibson said about everything!
Darn, I meant to hit Preview and hit Publish instead.
ctd...
I guess what I'm saying is that the person doing the initial sifting of cases should be able to take account of that psychological aspect. (The presence of pattern behind what looks like chaos.) Clearly JJ has been able to take decent hold of this angle, but how likely is it that (in real life) she would have been able to do that with her background/experience coming fresh to the BAU? It's another of those instances that watchers of CM have been happy to accept without demure from the beginning of the programme -- until latterly
;o)
UK viewer
Yes, it is more than the body count, all I meant to say with the body count is that an increased body count in more than one case that may have been potentially left to fall through the cracks by JJ is one way that the team, Hotch, would have known that JJ was overlooking things that shouldn't have been overlooked. I thought that is what you meant in your post. Sorry if I am wrong about that. WhaT I was trying to stress is that JJ had exoerience coming into the team, she built upon that experience. With regard to the cases, Hotch definitely had the final say in the case selection which would go to the aspects you mentioned that would make it a viable csae for the team to take. There was I think one instance when Hotch was away to spend time with Jack during the time that his divorce was going through that someone other than him chose to run with the case, Rossi. At that time, Rossi chose to move forward with the case. I think it was the one where the unsub was making it look like people were committing suicide.
Did anyone notice that Paget just started following Rachel Nichols on her twitter account?
I wonder what happened?
Also, I read that Paget's show My life as and Experiemnt wasnt picked up. Is that true?
Right, but all of the cases that she sifted through had to go through the gaze of Hotch and the team. When Jordan was there while JJ was out on maternity leave, it was stressed that JJ gets many cases for her to sift through, too many for the team to possibly take on. This was a stressful component of her job; it was something that Hotch too mentioned to Strauss, the fact that he knows JJ worries about. She did say to Jordan that her job required a little bit of an ability to be able to ascertain which of the cases she received should be of high importance. But again, these were not cases that she brought and told the team they had to take, no, Hotch, along with the team, talked the case through and decided whether or not it was a viable case to take as they were the most qualified and trained to be able to do that. Hotch having the final say.
Fedra, I'd forgotten that second-tier. You're right. The accepted cases are overlooked by a profiler. Hotch or R.
My point was not really about JJ as such but my very unsubtle plea for tolerance for the equally unlikely role of a new member of the team. Unlikeliness has not been an obstacle for loyal CM fans in the past...
:o)
But I got diverted and more interested in the other thing. It is really fascinating at some level that it's the brain's disposition rather than the bodies that matters in BAU terms. I can't think - has there ever been an episode without multiple victims? Just a pathology spotted really really early.
UK viewer
I like CM where did you read that? I thought word wasn't coming down until May 25th with regard to pilots on NBC.
http://www.rttnews.com/ArticleView.aspx?Id=1600150
is where I read it. It may be just speculation. I am satisfied that AJ is back, if Paget doesnt come back then whatever. I did really like Emily but I can live with it and I still think Seaver should be gonzo as well.
Yes, I think that the pathology is definitely key as that I think goes to the likelihood of more victims, and maybe the escalation of the violence associated with each potential new victim. I saw a documentary once where a profiler, I think Robert Ressler, talked about a case of some hookers that were being killed. There were some bodies, not many, but what they feared was that based on the way the killer killed, the segment of the population that was being targeted, and the way in which the bodies were being disposed, that it would continue and get far worse. Also, with cases involving children, there is heightened concern because these are the types of cases where the offender is likely to committ the crime again. Possibly not a great number killed, but disturbing because children are being targeted.
Yeah Optika. Would also like to see a transcript
Oh yes, they said that a transcript was supposed to be up, right? I think they may be working on some other stuff now, I wouldn't worry, I am sure that they will put it up soon :)
I'm just shocked they are now putting up transcripts which is cool :) I hope they continue putting up transcripts :)
yeah me to Fedra
How old would JJ's son be now? She didn't marry Will, right? She was wearing a ring, but I think she said that her and Will were wearing a ring with the baby's birth stone, not that it was an engagement ring, right?
I like CM said...
http://www.rttnews.com/ArticleView.aspx?Id=1600150
I don't know, especially this part:
"Various sources also report that Cook's former co-star Paget Brewster may also return to the show. Brewster recently appeared in an NBC network pilot titled "My Life As An Experiment," although the series was reportedly cut loose due to budgetary cuts at CBS."
My Life As An Experiment is from NBC
I gotta say that I am a bit surprised that its taken this long for any of the cast members to defned Rachel Nichols. There have been a few other oppurtunities but no one said anything.
Also, Rick Dunkle also defended her in the chat when asked,was Thomas asked about it or did her just bring it up? Really want to see that chat transcript!
I'm not saying anything bad, I am just curious. While I dont like Seaver at all, most people seem to like Rachel, so...
I am a bit curious about why Paget is suddenly following Rachel on twitter as well, practically at the end of the season too. But apparently, Shemar Moore was the last to tweet on her twitter account so maybe he added her on Paget's. I dont think that Paget has anything against Rachel or anything, just kindof strange.
Thomas wasn't asked about Rachel, he brought it up on his own.
I love Tweet the Feet Tuesday!
http://twitpic.com/4mwbui
"But apparently, Shemar Moore was the last to tweet on her twitter account so maybe he added her on Paget's."
That's not really Shemar, that's Paget pretending to be him. Something I think, MGG started as a joke.
No idea why the change of heart. AJ is still not following her.
Honestly, I can't follow her either, 4000 twits is too much for me to handle. Even MGG only has 1.100.
Not to start up another barrage of posts, but if the cast is starting to (just now) get behind RN, it might be a mandate from above if they've decided to keep the character....perish the thought! I just think the timing is suspect.
Again, just my opinion and I don't want to start an avalanche of posts re: Seaver....my opinion will always be that she needs to go.
Julia, don't know if that was a typo, which is quite common for internet articles, or if this is pure speculation/misinformation. Deadline has made some typos in the past and has had to correct some stuff in articles, so I wouldn't be surprised if that is what happened there (Deadline is a very trusted site). However, I'm not familiar with this news outlet, unlike Deadline, so I am not sure what to make of it. If Deadline comes out with this, then I'd take it as practically set in stone, as far as what is being stated about the pilot.
Anonymous, the cast is generally quiet about things like this. This is a very heated and controversial thing that is going on and I think that maybe some may just prefer to stay out of it publically, but maybe saying things among each other and to RN in private. That is my guess anyway.
Nanci, as far as I know, it has only been Thomas (in that kind of forum) and it would make sense for him to do so given the platform that he was speaking in. Not saying that he was directed to say that, but I would have been shocked had he not said anything about it being that it has been so heated, not to mention, that I believe that the network keeps a close eye on those chats. This is not to say that what he said isnt something he feels, just that I would have been surprised had he not started off with that given the nature of this situation.
The same thing with Dunkle. It was a chat where I am positive he and, I think Kim Harrison, right, knew that the question of that character was going to be brought up. I'm not saying that what he said isn't what he felt, just that agian in that forum those answers are to be expected.
I think Thomas spoke up because he's a nice guy who hates seeing a fellow cast member attacked so ruthlessly. I'm sure it makes the rest of the cast pretty angry to see how patheticly mean fans can be and over what....a television show. I've seen Joe M. come to her defense when people were actually stupid enough to tweet something hateful about her to him.
Well, they're all professionals and co-workers, they're not going to say anything negative about one of their own. I totally respect that.
However, I don't think that they are the ones to make the decision on whether or not to keep a character. If the fan outrage isn't addressed by someone who CAN make that decision, then the network really needs to consider what it's doing.
There's just been too much for too long not to address it to the fans and I don't think that using (and I don't mean that literally) fellow castmates is the way to go. They (if they all have or not) have probably just done the 'professional courtesy' thing and expressed their support of a fellow castmate. I don't see it as a clear indication that they absolutely love working with her and that she needs to be there. That may be a whole other story altogether.
Anyway, I'm rambling and I didn't mean to....sorry!
I agree that Rachel should not be personally attacked for doing her job. And Thomas was right to tell fans to stop harassing Rachel. That is not the same as telling us to support the character of Ashley if we don't already like her. . The two issues are completely separate things. Just because Rachel is a nice, sweet person, that doesn't mean the Ashley detractors think she's a good fit for the show.
LaShawna, agreed, well said.
sf81387, yes, Thomas seems like a very nice guy who would say something like that. I wasn't trying to imply that he wasn't geniune or that he doesn't feel that way, only that I would expect that the issue be addressed in that type of forum because of the level it has reached in some circles. Oh, and whomever tweeted something negative to Joe about a fellow cast member is dumb. Sorry, but that is the one word that comes to mind, dumb.
Nanci, no, they aren't the ones who decide who stay on or not. If they were, AJ would still be there. I do think they are gracious, professional and caring people that I wouldn't doubt enjoy their work and whom they are working with. The one consistent thing that has been said about that cast and crew is how wonderful they are to work with.
LaShawna said...
"I agree that Rachel should not be personally attacked for doing her job. And Thomas was right to tell fans to stop harassing Rachel. That is not the same as telling us to support the character of Ashley if we don't already like her. . The two issues are completely separate things. Just because Rachel is a nice, sweet person, that doesn't mean the Ashley detractors think she's a good fit for the show."
Correct and very well said LaShawna.
If Paget's pilot gets picked up, can she refuse to act in the series? Does anyone know it?
Hi Chris, yes, if it gets picked up she doesn't have to sign on. The show would just have to recast the lead with another actress.
Thank you A.! I hope she can come back to CM!
From the Twitter interactions and behind-the-scenes videos that I have seen, Rachel has clearly won over the entire cast. To imply that TG's defense of her was just "professional courtesy" or that he was "put up to it" is just ridiculous.
With perhaps the exception of one person, no one has said that he was put up to it, just that it was something that some expected for him to say because of the forum, the level it has reached, and because TG is a great guy. The cast is great and I am sure open to all that work there. But I think LaShawna makes a valid point when she says,
"I agree that Rachel should not be personally attacked for doing her job. And Thomas was right to tell fans to stop harassing Rachel. That is not the same as telling us to support the character of Ashley if we don't already like her. . The two issues are completely separate things. Just because Rachel is a nice, sweet person, that doesn't mean the Ashley detractors think she's a good fit for the show."
I wholeheartedly agree that people should not be personally attacking this woman for doing her job, but that is not the same with supporting the character she plays on the show. Those are two distinct things. I would never personally attack the actress, I think that is low and nasty, but I do not at all agree with the Seaver character being on CM, not one bit.
Well, count me in as one who thinks TG said it out of the kindness of his heart. He just seems like a nice guy.
And may I add that I think it is rude for people to imply that TG is disingenuine.
Yes Jessica, now that contract situation just needs to get cleared up for him and Shemar. ASAP! CM without them, I don't think so!
A.,
Yes. I think that TG and Shemar are necessary components to the show. If CBS thought the uprising/backlash for AJ and Paget were troublesome, IMHO it would pale in comparison to the uproar if they did not renew TG and Shemar. Just get it over with - early enough so that the writers have time over the summer to think of development. If they do it last minute, they will only end up with more shoddy, last-minute writing and ideas.
Yes, I think it seriously hinders the ability of the writers and producers to properly plan out what they want to possibly develop come season 7. It is so frustrating because it stops a lot of things in there tracks.
And to the people who were implying that TG was not sincere about Rachel at his chat, just look at the tweets they send each other back and forth. It is obvious that he and Rachel genuinely like each other. (Not romantically of course - don't want to get him in trouble with his wife!)
Anyway, I am taking a break from this board. So please be nice to one another. and at the risk of sounding like a broken record, CBS please get it together and renew TG and Shemar.
I am thinking more about TG and his request for Seaver support. He and the other cast members have to be in a thankless position with this blog, and poss others: the team is so well-loved and has been for so long and now here they are, with this newbie in their midst who has not been well-received, let alone be well-loved. They are not the writers, directors or the producers and must do their jobs regardless.
So what can they do but make the best of it? Here's hoping the TPTB get if fixed before S7 starts but I think in the meanwhile, it's best to lay off completely.
There cannot be ANYTHING left to say about qualifications, acting, hair color, etc. that has not already been said. I hardly think that this late in the game when filming for this season is all but over that if we have not yet made our desires known, that we are going to get anywhere by continuing to repeat ourselves. Plus, I see this entire subject causing dissension amongst the serious CMFanatics and for what purpose? It's not fun and as TG must be thinking, it is downright unkind at this point. I do not care to be any part of it. He thanked us for our continued support so let us show some respect and do as he asked.
It makes this forum less desirable to spend time on when there is so much negativity and disagreement that is going on, not to mention, I feel that we are beating a dead horse here.
Looking forward to the next new epi and let's plan of talking about it after. What do you say, people?
gubegirl, yes, I think both you and LaShawna have a point. First, I think it is wise to out TG's statement in perspective as LaShawan said when she wrote:
"I agree that Rachel should not be personally attacked for doing her job. And Thomas was right to tell fans to stop harassing Rachel. That is not the same as telling us to support the character of Ashley if we don't already like her. . The two issues are completely separate things. Just because Rachel is a nice, sweet person, that doesn't mean the Ashley detractors think she's a good fit for the show."
I really think it is important to make that distinction. I could not agree more that the actress should not be harrassed, that is completely uncalled for. However, as LaShawna pointed out, this is not the same as supporting a character that you may not like and do not feel is a fit for the show. In that regard, I believe you have point gubegirl in that this endless back and forth about the same thing is leading nowhere. For whatever reason, when things are pointed out about this character in the context of an episode or in context of the show, it goes all haywire and then the whole dialogue starts all over again. I wish people could just make their point and move on. The character is currently on the show so to not make an assessment of their role in an episode, or for that matter on the show period, is a little far fethched as one would either have to completely omit the character from their review, or say nothing at all if they don't agree with the caharcters performance in the episode and/or in the show. The key is I think in not only how the review is worded, but also how it is received. If I say that I don't like, for instance, that Hotch requested that Seaver go in with Hotch to speak with the unsub because I believe that is OOC for Hotch, then that is where it should rest. If others disagree, okay, but what happens far too often is that type of statement becomes the catalyst for an endless negative banter (this goes the other way around too).
I appreciate that TG said what he did because it shows what a wonderful guy he is. Now it is up to the people who post here to understand that this is a place where people have different opinions, not all of which agree, but getting nasty is not the way to put your point across. It does turn this blog into some sort of Fight Club and that needn't be the case.
Agreed, beating a dead horse is not going to get anywhere. The actress should definitely not be harrassed. It is one thing to make a point about the characters performance and credibility to be on the team given the characters green status (for those who believe the character is an ill fit for the show/BAU), it is quite another to make ill remarks about the actress herself that have nothing to do with the character.
TPTB I'm sure at this point know what some people's issues and concerns are and it is they who are going to make the decision what to do about it. I've said what I have to say on the matter and all I can do now is personally hope that things will get fixed by season 7.
I think Thomas was talking more about the actress not the character. If you don't agree with the character being on the show, you don't agree. What should not be done is take that disapproval of a fictional character and twist it to the actress playing the character. That is not proper.
AJ is coming back to the show and I think that is wonderful. Would love to see Paget come back to the show to make the team complete. I don't agree with the Seaver character being on the show for reasons I've said before. If my message hasn't been received about that matter by now, it won't be, but I am sure that it has. The season is wrapping up and all any of us can do now is wait and see what happens.
I appreciate when Jill has “open-mike” threads to give CM fans the opportunity for free-for-all discussions about all things CM.
I’d also like to thank Jill and her great cast of moderators for providing access to chat opportunities with our fantastic cast, writers and producers. This is a unique opportunity for fans; and we have Jill to thank for creating this wonderful forum that affords fans an immediate avenue for communicating and interacting with each other about our favorite show.
Add me to the extensive list of those ecstatic about AJ Cook’s return. Her rejoining CM signifies a return to normalcy. I’m anxiously waiting to hear news of Paget Brewster’s return so that we will have the original team post season 2 back in place. My comments are made with the assumption that Paget will return for season 7. I do understand that decision is still up in the air.
I’m not yet concerned about Thomas Gibson and Shemar Moore not returning because I don’t believe CBS is that moronic to step into another public fray with fans as they are weaving their way out of the one created with the ouster of AJ and Paget. I believe they recognize the error of their ways and will not engage in continued pillaging of our beloved cast.
I’m am interested in what will happen with the Seaver character for all the issues that have been raised before: lack of credibility with original CM concept, likeness too similar to JJ, and basically not really a good fit; but Rachel Nichols is not the blame for how the character was conceived and the storyline executed. TG’s defense of her is understandable and expected; but I still wonder how CBS can now justify carrying 8 fulltime regulars, when 7 caused a budget crisis that necessitated the firing of AJ and later Paget. The whole matter reeks of hypocrisy to me.
I also am concerned about how the writers will balance writing for 8 regulars, when we felt cheated by how some of the existing cast have been marginalized during season 6. Many of us have bitterly complained all season that Hotch/TG has been pushed to the background and has barely been seen in Season 6. Gibson said during his chat that he was surprised that there’s been less Hotch. If CM has a cast of 8 in Season 7, I hope this madness does not continue.
Some argue that the Seaver’s character has yet to be developed. I would argue that the Seaver’s character has been developed more than most of the other CM character whose pasts have been alluded to but not fully explored. And we’re still waiting for Hotch to deal with being blown up, stabbed nine times by Foyet, the death of his ex-wife, and now the “death” of Prentiss. Will this be wrapped up in an episode? I hope we will not be expected to get “it” and move on much like the Reid headache blip. I feel the continued development of the Seaver character is required until we accept/buy into the character and storyline, or the noise dies down, whichever comes first.
Since CM doesn’t really make character development a priority, is it fair to invest so much time into the development of a new character, when there is so much left to be explored with the older characters. Prentiss’ background was created on the fly simply because the writers had to hurriedly show her the door.
If CBS and CM decide to keep the Seaver character I just hope it’s not at the expense of more airtime for Hotch/TG. The writers have managed to push him into a corner with a cast of 6 or 7; and frankly, I don’t want another season where there is very little Hotch. We all have voiced concern about the lack of screen time for our favorite characters, a crowded roundtable means your starters will never see much playing time.
cont...
Frankly, I don’t want another season of frustration, aggravation, annoyance and complaints. I would love Season 7 to be a return to when CM was an enjoyable experience, where we raved about the episodes and complaints were few. If the writers can make it work with 8 and Hotch is in the forefront, you won’t get any grumbling from me; but I’m sure the complaints about lack of screen time will increase rather than diminish.
My thought of Criminal Minds
What I love about Criminal Minds and what had got me hooked to the show in the first place is the method they you to proceed the crime investigation and to catch the killers. Most of the Crime show investigate the physical and material and historical and behavioral facts and throw them to suspects to arrest or to get confession during interrogation.
In Criminal Minds, they see under the fact to understand criminal minds. Of course, all procedural dramas see under the fact at some point, but most of the time it's spark of genius type of thing. Difference in Criminal Minds is, they use it as scientific method and we can see the process of how they reach these conclusions through profiling. And they use these methods to break through the unsub in interrogation and nagotiation. It's like a psychological battle between them.
That's what I love about Criminal Minds and makes this show very different from others.
So I love to see criminal minds through investigation and profile, not from criminal him/herself, although it's nice to have criminal point of view once in a while like "True Night", but not all the time.
Other part which make this show special is the way they treat/interact with victims, victim's families, suspect's families, local officers with respect and compassion. How they interact with people is carefully describe based on psychology with respect and compassion. I think this aspect is integral to the show and one of the reason makes this show special. And they don't describe locals as dumb to make BAU shine even there are some conflict between them time to time.
I think Hotch's subtle, calm, strong and respectful presence is very important to these aspects and to not make this show all cheesy and too "America hero drama".
And there is media liaison. I always thought her presence in the BAU is very important to the show especially after JJ left. Control of media is very important aspect of crime investigation not only for investigation itself but also for protecting victims and families and not to create panic among citizens. With media liaison's presence I feel this show (BAU) cares all of people who related to the crime. So I really, really want JJ to come back as Liaison not as a profiler. We need Liaison.
And of course there is team. I love the character differences between four male members. I think they are perfectly balanced. I love Hotch and Morgan dynamic, it's very interesting I think, but I want Hotch to stay as leader and I want to see his strong presence as leader in each episode. I love Garcia as bright tech servie. Although I think Seaver's introduction was weak, but I love to see her development as profiler in the BAU. And welcome back JJ!!
Although I love to see characters development, I don't want episodes to be like, this week is Reid centric and next week is Hotch centric and next..... kind of thing.
I rather have thick, decent case story and some character development time to time, and I want consistency!!
For me, Criminal Minds is not the Unsub of the Week drama, but the story of the people who go into criminal minds to catch them, and drama of how they handle other people's minds (victims, families, locals, and citizens though media) and how they handle their own minds.
I hope Season 7 to be wonderful season for the casts and crew and fans, and I hope to see more great episodes in Season 7.
I have never been one to actually harass Rachel on her twitter account. I have always been opposed to that and I think that I may have stated that in some other posts.
It was great of Thomas Gibson to stand up for Rachel, she does seem like an interesting enough person in real life.
I think that she's a good actress, can be better but she's good enough in most of her other roles, except for The Inside and Criminal Minds. Clarice Starling types dont suit her. Her Alias role was perfect for her. TOo bad it got cancelled. Watched some eps with her in it, and I think that she could have been a lot more interesting than Jennifer Garner actually. As for Criminal Minds...
Sorry but Seaver does not belong for all the aforementioned reasons and onscreen, Rachel's chemsitry is off and her acting style does not mesh well with others on the show. SHe was ok in the Stranger ep. Only ep where she wasnt annoying, Seaver I mean.
Whatever happens, Rachel will have a great career but not while she's on CM, especially with AJ coming back. I have always been able to tell them apart and stuff and I dont think its too much of a big deal, their likeness, but I've never seen 2 blondes with similar looks on the same show unless they are playing sorority sisters or something.
I wonder about the whole Paget following Rachel on twitter thing too but...
I hope that now that the fans are being listened too, next season shows more consistency and character development.
I think that aside from advocating a soundtrack, we should post our ideas of what we would like to see in season 7.
I am going to post some of mine tomorrow hopefully.
sdwally, I don't think there would be any move to carry the show with 8 full time cast members assuming Paget returns. For one, as you stated, the expense of carrying that amount of cast over and above the production costs is a bit too much. It would also run counter to what TPTB have said were the reasons for eliminating AJ and Paget in the first place. I also don't doubt that the budget is also coming into play in Thomas and Shemar's contracts. 8 full time cast members would also cut into the budget for any potential guest stars they may want to book. This would not even be touching on your point about screen time for the characters. It is challenging to get 7 members time on screen in 42 or 43 minutes, 8, plus the unsub and any other extras, I just don't see where this would be wise or beneficial to the show. For that matter, where it can be executed well.
I think you make excellent points with regard to the matters left untapped with the other characters. There is more than enough there to tap into. You are also right that until people buy into the Seaver character (I personally never will) there will have to be some heavy, fancy foot work being done that I think will be done at the expense of the other characters. Not to mention that I feel that may lead to more resistance as some may feel like they are having a character continually forced upon them. I'm not saying this is the case with everyone.
I'm hoping like nobody's business that Paget returns to the show. Without a doubt, I wish nothing but the best for her on her pilot. Paget is wonderful and deserves the best. If she doesn't return, I think that it would be best to leave the cast at 6 or create a character to replace the Seaver character who can come in like Prentiss and Rossi did, ready to go and not in need of so much emphasis to get people to buy into. One of the brilliant thing about those characters was exactly that they fit right into the team and the story lines picked up with them roaring to go and where some may not have liked them at first (some still don't), at least they did not question their validity and credibility to be on the team. I think that is the number one sticking sore thumb with the Seaver character, but of course, as you said that is not the actresses fault and she should not get pounded for that. That being said, I think there is a time when as a few posters earlier on in this thread said that you sit down and assess just how much more pushing you are going to do to sell a character.
Post a Comment