Criminal Minds spoiler thread for "Lauren" starring Joe Mantegna, Thomas Gibson, Paget Brewster, Shemar Moore, Matthew Gray Gubler and Kirsten Vangsness.
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804 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 601 – 800 of 804 Newer› Newest»Something that bewildered me about this episode.
This team of profilers, who so often knew what was going on at their teammates minds, concluding this knowledge out of minimal details, all see JJ and Hotch behaving strange in the hospital waiting room and at the funeral - and none of them is realising what is going on? Not even Rossi or Morgan?
Sorry, but this is really hard for me to swallow. Am I the only one?
But Emily playing with the boy - absolutely CUTE :)
Natbe they were too greif stricken??
Ashley and Rossi were not conducting a "skilled" interrogation; Reid and Rossi did a much better job pushing Fahey's buttons, interrogating, and getting him to talk. Ashley seemed way out of her depth. Just because she has dated narcissists does not mean she is in any way qualified to interrogate them yet. If that is her "sexy cop" routine, she definitely needs to practice that in advance. She seemed way too tentative to be "sexy cop". Or I should say, I certainly wasn't buying it, and it didn't seem like Fahey was either. And besides her "skill" was completely undermined in the next scene when Rossi literally had to hold her hand to get her to talk.
The secrets thing- is that only to do with the team? They've just aired 25 to life in the UK and the secret in that is that a congress man got away with murder for 25 years and would do anything for the secret not to get out. Just a thought.
Anyone had any thoughts on the Emily, interpol, almost 10 years experience in the FBI when she joined the BAU yet was in Ireland with Doyle 8 years ago which is about 3 years before joining the BAU question? Would love to have it explained - the numbers dont add up. Cheers Ta
This episode was really good. Good that prentiss didn't kill a kid i was scared there for a minute. Seaver was also great last night.
She showed that she can be tough as nails when she is pushed.
Good for her when emotions get in she is a top agent
Just a small comment but this isn't the first time the "hand holding" device has been used, not litarally but Gideon did it quite a bit with reid in the beginning, and it took me a while to understand that he wasn't trying to get reid to reach the same conclusion he did but just that he understood reid would be able to see something he didn't. Just finished rewatching Seasons 1 and 2 recently so maybe thats why I interpreted it that way. Don't get me wrong my favourite Rossi moments are when he's being a hardass, but the team Mom moments are enjoyable as well.
I hope we can get a few episodes that are about the cases and the profiling before we have to delve into what is wrong with Reids head, but I'm not holding my breath.
I think based on Emily's new backstory, much of her time in the FBI is made up. The operation to take down Doyle ended in 2004, and she joined the BAU in late 2006. So it sounds like she finished with the CIA/Interpol, and then got a job with the FBI. It also sounds like Clyde's writeup about her helped her secure her position in the FBI, thus possibly circumventing the normal ways of recruitment. Strauss described Emily as possibly too reckless, so maybe it will come to light at some point that she knew the full story of Emily's background. None of it sounds really realistic, but now that her previous time in the CIA is known, somehow that will have to jive with her previously stated background.
Gideon did push Reid a lot, and could be rather impatient with him at times (that's ultimately why I think Hotch was a better mentor for Reid than Gideon). He went about it differently, particularly by playing chess with Reid all the time to get him to think outside of the box. It's not necessarily that Rossi was mentoring Ashley that's the problem for me; but the literal hand holding thing came across to me as over the top, unnecessary, and frankly patronizing. If he really thinks she has that much potential, he needs to find a better way to mentor her than being her "daddy".
You know what i find funny is you are eating up the whole doyle storyline, with prentiss and thinks it is realistic that the BAU would accept someone like prentiss on the team without really checking her out.
But you say Seaver is unrealistic. Which really shows you got no real bases on your dislike for seaver when you think it is OK Prentisss could be accepted with her background. I find it odd as hell
There wasnt an opinion in there, just a possibility as to why the maths doesnt add up but I didnt see an opinion expressed or even implied - but that is a good point if anyone does draw that conclusion.
Thanks LaShawna I missed that part. Whether it becomes a plausibility thread or not that could be how the writers tried to make the math work
Having read lots of Seaver-Reid-comparision until here. Think it won't mind if I point out my two cents about that theme.
I think Reid and Seaver both have a special "something" the team can profit of. Out of their childhood they own an ability, others have to study years for.
But also they both have an special kind of mental skill, their minds are working in opposite ways.
Reid is a genius, but he lacks some social skills. Based on the crime scene and facts his mind is running down all available information, which lead him to conclusions which finally lead him to the state of the unsubs mind. The difficult point for him is to empathize.
Seaver goes the other way around. She empathizes/gets the unsubs emotional pattern, which need her to search for conclusions, which make her able to get the facts. The difficult thing for her ist to break down her "feeling of the scene" into a rational train of thoughts.
Two different access-points to the same scenery - quite an interessting aspect for me.
Wasn't part of the point that Interpol gave her the background that could be checked during those years. The dialogue between Hotch and Easter in this episode seemed to suggest that.
How in the heck are you getting that Seaver getting the emotional pattern of the unsub thing? Sorry, but that is just as laughable as the character. LaShawna is correct, the roof scene with Fahey just proved that she was way out of her depth, followed by the undermining of anything that could be considered a "skill" when it comes to this most stupid of characters. The character is a total flatline. May watch the remaining 6 episodes to see how the season ends, but if this stupid character is back season 7, I'm done. Hell, I may be done after watching a couple of more episodes with this flatline.
Why did you have to wreck a perfectly good team!!!!!!!!!!
I do think that when she joined the FBI from the CIA, she was probably given a whole career timeline so she didn't come in as a rookie agent, but had some sort of paperwork to back up her supposed FBI career. Now of course this was not the original intent when Emily was introduced back in 2006, but when they decided to write her out in a spectacular sendoff, the writers now had to make this new twist fit into what they've written for her in the past. It certainly isn't an easy fit, though the fact that Emily just mysteriously showed up on the team and was ready to contribute from day one with profiling, languages and culture skill, blends quite nicely into her now known CIA background. She was ready to be a profiler, because that is what she did for the CIA/Interpol and JTF-12: profile terrorists. We've never really seen much of Emily's professional life before this, so it was easier (though not wholly realistic) to introduce this new storyline.
However even with this somewhat unrealistic turn of events for Emily, at least there was never a question of her qualifications and fitness for the team.
This episode was great! PB acting was superb
Im glad they gave Emily a very interesting background (sad they did it 'cause they fired PB, hope she will come back, but, if she finds a new show hope her the best and I will be watching and supoorting her)
Is interesting how they write the character: very much like the fans have written her in the fanfiction world: a woman with secrets, but with a very good reason to keep them, a big heart, contradictory decisions (is great, meaning, things in real life are not black or white, things are gray, just the way Emily/Lauren is)
Also, interesting, that just two characters: JJ and Hotch, knew what really happened to Emily...they are the most "shipper" characters she is with...isnt she?
is it just me or the episode was a big tribute to Paget Brewster, Emily and the fans???
sorry if this is written weird, English is not my first language
I was just wondering: is Hotch's secret the fact that he's keeping Emily's secret--sort of the secret within the secret.
It is a huge secret to keep; but it's one Hotch is forced to maintain because it could be tragic for Emily, his team and his son. But if it becomes "the secret" for Hotch, then it would strike me as odd that he had no secrets, nothing in his closet prior to Emily's forced exit.
There must have been something previously that kept him up at night, before making the pact to keep the fact that Emily's alive from the rest of the team.
This could be compelling television if the writers don't get lazy and give the material the short shrift.
Just a thought...
I really hope Hotch has a secret of his own independent of the Emily fake death thing. He's hardly had anything to do this season and if they don't give him a secret of his own I will be feel cheated. Although my favourite character is Reid, I admire Hotch too, and I'm hoping to see more Hotch involvement in the future episodes(if I continue watching..)
To the anonymous who said it is difficult for Reid to empathize. Well, I disagree. To me, Reid is by nature very compassionate and empathetic, especially when it comes to young unsubs. Remember how amazing he was in "Sex, Birth, and Death", "Seven Seconds", "Elephant's Memory", and "Conflicted"? His empathetic nature shown through in those episodes. Even in "Tabula Rasa" he was very gentle and empathetic with once of the victim's father, granted he wasn't the unsub but still.
As far as Seaver being more emotional/empathetic is concerned, some people already said that Rossi and Morgan are that way too. So do we really need someone else like that on the team? I don't know. What the team needs is a media liaison. Watching Garcia present cases is painful. Watching JJ back presenting the case last week was like music to my ears. She just belonged. To me, Seaver just comes across as an inexperienced, unqualified person who has no business being in the team. Sorry, I think she should come back after she has finished reading all the "textbooks" which should ideally be after 8 to 10 years.
Well count me in as one who has not given up on Seaver. she really showed she got alot of potential as a future agent after the roof scene. She got way more tough which really suited her.
Thank you for the text of the scripted dialogue, Kris. Although, to me personally, it seems a bit inconclusive. "We did everything/all we could" could also be said in consolation to a grieving Hotch who might ask himself if there could have been done more to save Emily's life. At the moment I'm starting to think Hotch might not even know for sure that Emily's alive but only guess due to AJ's reaction. The look he gave AJ at the funeral indicates he at least suspects what went on. But maybe I just think too much sometimes. The majority of fans seem to think Hotch knows and participated and that was my first impression when viewing the episode, so maybe I should just go with that. LoL.
sdwally: "I was just wondering: is Hotch's secret the fact that he's keeping Emily's secret--sort of the secret within the secret."
That was exactly my thought right after the episode ended. Well, right after my tears had dried and I had calmed down a bit. I thought to myself "now we know Hotch's secret". But then again, nothing will likely follow up on that. I think Paget isn't coming back. I have a hunch she'd already decided that before she even got that pilot. And everyone involved with the show knows, but they can't say anything because the producers and the network want us fans keep on guessing (and hoping).
I do remember TG's preseason interviews and those of the other cast members and little of that has ever come to pass. Hotch/Morgan bonding over the Ellie-storyline - zilch. Hotch follow up on his reaper-trauma - zilch. Secrets for Morgan, Rossi and Hotch - zilch. Follow-up on the Reid headaches - zilch.
By the way, I double checked the dialogue when I got home.
JJ: "We did the best we could."
Hotch: "I know."
I knew it was something like that but I couldn't remember the exact exchange.
Hotch does know (at least that's what I've been told). Nothing says they can't change that because there is no actual confirmation that he does. The only one we know for sure is in on it is JJ.
Someone earlier mentioned that they were surprised that no one else on team picked up on the exchanges between Hotch and JJ. There isn't any reason for them not to believe that Emily is dead. Morgan saw how gravely injured Emily was. There were too busy consoling each other that I would think that profiling was the furthest thing from their minds. When there is no suspicion, there is not need to doubt.
So JJ and Hotch have to keep this secret to protect not only Emily but the rest of the team and, more importantly, their families.
I've said other places that I think it would be so interesting for Paget to come back (not just because I'll miss the hell out of her on CM) because there is still a lot of storyline left here. Doyle is still alive (and making DirectTV commercials) and looking for Declan I'm sure. How relieved and then massively betrayed would the rest of the team be to find out that Emily is still alive...and that Hotch and JJ were complicit in keeping this from them.
LunaM said...
"But then again, nothing will likely follow up on that. I think Paget isn't coming back. I have a hunch she'd already decided that before she even got that pilot. And everyone involved with the show knows, but they can't say anything because the producers and the network want us fans keep on guessing (and hoping)."
I agree with this point. I believe that long before we heard anything about the pilot option out that Paget requested, and the fact that Paget wanted to shop around for a comedy pilot, she had already come to the decision that season 6 would be her last season on the show. The season 7 contract offered to her by the network was, in part, a last ditch effort for them to get her back and also something to have fans sitting back hoping that Paget would accept. Not to mention that despite everyting they had done to set up the scenario for her opting to leave, offering her the season 7 contract is a way for them to absolve themselves of any blame should she decline the contract; pretty low. I am certain that both CBS and CM know that her decision is final but they are not about to say that officially.
It is unfortunate that things got to the point that they have on this show with respect different factors. Firing integral writers, firing and pushing out integral cast, and decisions to add a weak limb to an already injured body. I amm not sure what the impacyy of these decisions will be, to what level, if at all. I have grown weary and must admit that personally I do not believe that I will be watching CM for much longer, and this makes me very sad. All of the injuries CM has received have been so unfair and in no way deserved.
Anyone else notice the "Idiots Guide" book on the shelf when Morgan and Rossi are in Emilys apartment? Can't see what its a guide to tho.
lol
Anonymous, it was probably a cleverly placed homage to the powers that be at CBS and CM. Except, they are so dense, they didn't get it.
Thank you powers that be at CBS and CM for ruining this show for me leading to the end of my viewership of CM.
Just occurs to me that I haven't read anyone here commenting on the thing Seaver says when pressed by (the beautiful) Rossi. I can't remember the exact words but the thing that seems finally to get her riled is when she says that for Doyle Emily is the stressor -- he wants revenge against the person who took away his freedom for all those years, 'And I understand that', she says with feeling.
I should watch this scene again rather than trusting to memory because there's bound to be someone here who remembers it properly. But if that is what she says it's hugely important. It's not the insight itself (no great shakes) but the route towards it that is important. She gets her understanding from the perspective of still-simmering anger against the people or the system that put her father away...
That's different, isn't it? It's a distinct thing. There's something there for the writers to get their teeth into. And to my mind it would explain the interest of (the beautiful) Rossi.
UK viewer
PS thanks Kris for sharing those scripted words between JJ and Hotch. Very interesting. Clever buggers, aren't they?
To English CM Fan: The episode you refer to was a particularly painful example of the sloppy writing of this season.
The District of Columbia doesn't have Congressional representation; it is not a state. Not remotely credible that the BAU team wouldn't know this even before their jobs brought them to DC, whose local residents complain about this nonstop and vociferously.
The next painful part was that the brilliant profilers of the BAU concluded that the Unsub was a serial killer because he'd been a successful business person who'd downsized a company: clearly a sociopath!
That and some of the other S6 eps would have been laughable if we weren't all die-hard fans who get really depressed watching blatant factual errors and leaps of logic that leave our beloved BAU team dropping headlong into an abyss.
Uk viewer, forgive me, but you seem awfully fixated on the Seaver character whom I consider to be a complete waste of space, dialogue, and effort on this show. A grand majority of your comments seem targeted to pinpointing these "pearls of great wisdom" from Seaver when, at least for me, it is largely drivel regurgitated by a character that is just ridiculous for CM. I'm not implying that it is incorrect for you to do this, nor that you should stop. It is just something that I have been noticing with great frequency in your posts.
For me, nothing that she says is anything that these profilers couldn't come up for themselves, excluding the inane comments that come out of her mouth. Quite frankly, it is embarrasing that they are scripting these elite profilers to be so out of touch that they can no longer come up with the basic conclusions that this rookie comes up with. It is a real degradation of the individual characters, the team, and the show.
Belinda, hullo. I own up. There is a degree of devil's advocacy about my stance with regard to Seaver, and I'm sorry if I'm annoying. But I'm going to argue her case as long as she's got so many MANY people arguing against her. I'm sorry that the actor's work is being received so negatively, and I suspect that there is a degree of prejudice in the general fan reaction that's making whatever faults there have been in the writing show up worse. I like her well enough so far.
She's not the main reason I watch the show of course, but fair play to her. And to be strictly fair to myself in the comments I've made about her, I'm not ever saying (just) 'Give her a chance', I'm trying to think about how she fits in and what the writers have got in mind for the character.
UK viewer
PS if I were honest, I"d be yammering on about Rossi and Mantegna all the time. If I thought there was someone here who'd yammer back to me about his involvement with Mamet, I'd be in seventh heaven. But in lieu of that, stirring things up about the new guy is a sport I'm happy to find diverting (and worth doing).
UK bugger
Uk viewer, I hope you didn't take my comment as one that you should stop doing that. That wasn't at all my intention. I just feel like for me, the character has no value on the show and to be fair I don't think that this greatly has to do with the whole AJ and now Paget situation.
The average viewer knows nothing of these situations. I have seen many comments from people who don't know why AJ is no longer on the show and why Paget was written out who point out the same things that people here have pointed out repeatedly about this character. Again, these are people who do not have the background that we do with regard to the AJ and Paget situations. Also, I don't think it is fair to say that the resistance to this character is based on the AJ and Paget situations for people who have commented here. Might that be the case for some, yes, but I don't think that is the case for many based on the detailed comments they have posted here about the issues with that character. These are not insignificant, throw away issues, these are glaring character issues that no swipe at a computer keyboard are going to make go away no matter how long the character appears on the show in my estimation.
Belinda, I didn't think for a moment that you were saying I should stop. No! I can feel the fairness in your comment. And thank you for it.
I do understand that when people are attached to JJ and Emily it's galling to have a new character that (in addition to being new) has issues that mark her out as being something other than standard FBI issue. But sometimes, just sometimes, it feels that she can't do a thing right. If she's knowledgeable, she's too good. If she asks a question, she's wet behind the ears. If she leans on a table for a moment, she's lazy.
The writers have been understandably absorbed in finding how to make Prentiss's departure a big splash and a great send off. Maybe we'll see a different level of attention for the new character now. With luck, she will start to earn support from dedicated CM watchers.
You're right though. I have been going on a bit, I'll tone it down for a bit but 'I've got her back'.
:o)
UK viewer
Anonymous (UK viewer)
couldn't agree more with you. i also see that Seaver could become a great vallue to this show once she is fully developed as a character.
Uk viewer, I am glad that you didn't take my comment that way. With respect to your latest comment, I think the fact that you may feel that this character is "damned if she does, damned if she doesn't" goes to the fact that the nature of this character is one that cannot be reconciled with may people being that this show is about an elite an specialized unit. On the one hand, if she is making inane comments and observations, that goes to the fact that she is not experienced or qualifed enough to be on the team; those comments given that background are to be expected, but they are not in line with the show being that this team represents the complete opposite of that type of "contribution." On the other hand, if she is written as having knowledge that someone at her level just simply cannot have being that she is so green, well, that is a problem too because then that undermines the team on the opposite end of the spectrum to when she is making inane comments and observations. By this I mean that someone coming with such a low level of experience and qualifications being written as contributing things that the show has always, always, stressed was unique and special to these team members because of their expertise (expertise that was developed with years of experience and training in their respective fields, or with Reid because of his genius) undermines that foundation if now a cadet, about to be junior agent, can come in and do what the show has asserted only a handful of people can do.
I don't think that the thought process behind this character being added to the show was a complete one and has led to the character being boxed in, but boxed in a bad way, as either way they go will just not work in the grand scheme of the show.
To Annonymous re 25 to life - I know, I read the posts about the episode and the majority of people didn't feel it was well written - but thank you. To be honest, I don't really have an opinion. As episodes go I was okay with it.
I was actually just raising the question about secrets and wondering if the thread of secrets was supposed to be only about the main characters. There's no hook or advertising to reel us into watching the next season of CM in the UK. We just know the new season is aobut to air - thats it. I only know about the secrets thing (or the lack of them) from this blog and after 25 to life was aired last night wondered whose the secrets were supposed to be? In the bonnie and clyde style episode the unsubs sort have had secrets about their childhood which put them in AA. I'm not giving an opinion, just asking the question if it's feasible that that perhaps the secrets aren't all about the team - again, I don't know what the pre season advertising was as we dont get that. Cheers ta.
Belinda, I hope she's gone come season7. I'm still hoping that CBS listen to the overwhelming majority of their fans and season7 we get the cast of Hotch, Morgan, Garcia, JJ, Reid, Emily, and Rossi.
We can all pretend like season6 was a horrible nightmare that never happened. I know it's wishful thinking but CBS really screwed up with the cast decisions, I hope they have the guts to own up and make amends, although being the morons that they are, I guess my hoping is totally worthless.
English CM fan, I believe that the secrets are the secrets pertaining to the main characters, not the unsubs. That's what Ed Bernero and Simon Mirren said in a few interviews. Thus far, we only know Garcia, Emily, and JJ's secrets. I think the cause of Reid's headaches will be his secret, or are the headaches supposed to be his secret? I really don't know.
JJ's secret?? Was that secret that she was being transferred, or is there something else that I missed? I haven't watched all of the season 6 episodes which back in the day would have been an unthinkable thing for me :(
LunaM and Shannon, I think you are both right about Paget :(
Another Seaver post...please skip if you are tired of this subject!
Besides the fact that the character should never be in this position in the BAU there are other reasons why I dislike the character:
I think the writers originally were trying to meld the characters of Emily and JJ into Seaver. The intelligent contributing profiler and the sensitive media liaison and instead of being one or the other make her an itelligent sensitive rookie profiler. Maybe good on paper but it failed majorly with the writing.
Intelligent --(the writers have tried 2 different approaches) since she is not a profiler she can only ask dumb questions which really brings down the flow and dynamics of the team or she can use her life experiences (like cutting, dating narcissists or fresh eyes)to add to the profile which makes the elite profilers seem like they are idiots and are clueless without her. Information they should alread know as someone else put it profiling 101 info. Dumbing down the other characters if you will.
Which brings us to sensitive. The writers, in an effort to make her likable went way overboard with the sensitive part. She is either flat and bland when asking questions or insecure, scared or weepy the rest of the time. The character is not balanced at all. JJ was strong yet sensitive. Her personality had more than a one dimentional trait. Both JJ and Emily had multiple layers. There are so many great adjectives that you could use for both of them. There is nothing to really sink your teeth into or enjoy with the Seaver character. Scared and insecure doesnt not fit well within the BAU - even Penelope who does have these traits (amoung her other eccentric and endearing ones)was kept inside the safe and secure walls of the BAU. Once let out to give the cases showing the murdered victims and travel with the team has had a negative reaction because it just doesnt fit.
Which leaves us with physical. The one place where she could have contributed would to have made her a marksman, a quick on her toes dont mess with me kind of girl. It was believable since at the academy she excelled at obstacle course. Something unique. Instead the writers chose her to be soft and girly. Its to late now because theyve already shown her to not be so. when the bullet was fired on the roof she freeze like a dear caught in headlights and Rossi had to pull her down. They should have had her pull Rossi down -- quick reaction/thinking. Or instead of Rossi having to hold her hand and goad her she should have grabbed him and said you guys are too close you are not thinking clearly...give her something more than a wimpering scared insecure little girl.
The father/daughter mentoring isnt working. Its is too dramatic for this type of show which is based more on intellectual stimulation.
Its too late now to fix this character...the writer cannot just do a complete turnaround. She cannt be strong when she has been so incredibly weak. She cannot be a qualified contributing profiler when she hasnt even read all the books, lol couldnt resist that one!
"Anonymous said...
To English CM Fan: The episode you refer to was a particularly painful example of the sloppy writing of this season.
The District of Columbia doesn't have Congressional representation; it is not a state. Not remotely credible that the BAU team wouldn't know this even before their jobs brought them to DC, whose local residents complain about this nonstop and vociferously."
You are correct, DC doesn't have a vote in Congress; and the residents have been vocal and actively fighting for that vote for some time. But it does have a "Shadow Senator" in Congress, which is something of an anomaly, because she's a part of the process, but has no real say or any power to enact legislation.
The writers should have known this and presented the unsub as representing the state of Virginia. And correct me if I'm wrong, I believe the unsub lived in Virginia, which would have invalidated him as a District representative. He should have been written as a Virginia Congressman.
I deleted this episode from my DVR immediately after it aired because it had no Hotch in it; and I found it ridiculously written and not credible; so I may be remembering some of the fact incorrectly.
Raine,
If they had Seaver pull Rossi down on the roof, people would have been complaining about Super Seaver the rookie having to save a veteran agent. We are at the point where literally EVERY single thing she does is ripped to shreds by some of the fans on here.
While I was not a huge fan of the handholding scene, I really liked the rooftop scene. Interrogations themselves require a good deal of profiling. Rossi and Seaver went in with a very clear plan of attack to loosen up a nicotine-addicted narcissist, and it was working pretty well up until Fahey got shot. I actually loved Seaver's reaction. I thought it was perfect for someone who wouldn't have heard any gunshots, so it would have just looked like blood appearing out of nowhere. It took even Fahey and Rossi a few seconds to realize what was going on, and Fahey was the one who got shot!
UK Viewer,
Please don't stop posting, because I really enjoy reading your insights. Even if they are all about Seaver, they always add new depth to the discussion. I get really tired of reading the same old "she's not qualified!" refrain over and over. I think a lot of the Seaver fans have basically been driven out of this particular forum, so it's good to see SOMEONE standing up for her in a rational manner.
How have they been driven out of this forum? If they have, it sure doesn't seem so to me. Moreover, I take great offence to that type of statement. There are debates here all of the time regarding characters, episodes, etc., so to say that now that is happening is just not credible. If you have a strong argument and can present that in a clear and precise way, great. However, no matter how strong or weak your argument is, it will probably be addressed and coming here or anywhere where things are discussed that should be known and expected. Now, it should be addressed in a respectful way, and for the most part I have seen that here so there shouldn't be an issue with that regardless of where your chips may fall.
I have seen various posts that basically say you should go elsewhere if you have a pro-Seaver opinion because the majority here is anti-Seaver.
Or, when people post pro-Seaver things, others will say "you seem awfully fixated on Seaver" or "maybe you should go start an RN fanclub but not here."
Agreed Anonymous, if you comment in a public space, chances are you are going to get a reply. Could be that someone agrees, could be that someone disagrees. As long as there is respect, there shouldn't be an issue and it certainly shouldn't be something that stops people from commenting. If that is the case, then they can't really comment in most open, public forums because people are going to put what is written to a challenge.
Thanks for pointing out those issues about the 25 to Life episode. I did not care for that episode at all and so mid-point through I mentally checked out.
And.... that comment was targeted towards a specific set of commenters who basically have nothing to say other than people are "haters." The awfully fixated, yes, that was an observation that I too had because it seems that the individual, who by the way said that they were a bit fixated on the character, seems to ever write about. If you notice, their were people who said that no that everyone should comment here but that it should be done in a respectful way, not a way that calls people names. Also, the person that brought up the fixated thing with the commenter said a couple of times that it was not her intention to say that UK viewer should stop commenting about the Seaver character or that it is wrong to do so. Uk viewer even said that he or she could see the fairness in her comment to him or her. Please look over their back and forth and you will see that the way you are trying to paint that exchange is simply not the case.
Some are wondering the timeline of Emily's ability to work in Interpol and then be an FBI agent. I looked up Interpol and it said a third of the staff were seconded or detached by their national law enforcement administration to work at Interpol. So Emily could have been in the FBI when she was chosen for the post in Interpol. It also says it operates in four languages Arabic, English, French and Spanish, and we know Emily is fluent in all of these. It would make choosing her for Interpol to be a no brainer. Hotch also seemed to know about her work at Interpol so that may have been considered part of her time in the FBI.
UK viewer, I admit to being one of the CM fans that feels that Seaver just does not fit, but I don't think of myself as being overcritical. I never minded that she had her knee on a desk, but when she comes out with questions like could a ten year old autistic boy shoot his father, abduct both his parents and be on time for school, her credibility as any kind of profiler goes way down in my book. I don't care if she's a cadet or not, a moron wouldn't ask that type of question.
But, like Belinda, I totally respect your right to like Seaver and it's nice to see someone, although I might not agree with them, putting forward reasons why you feel Seaver is a good fit. That's something we haven't seen from the Seaver supporters so far.
I've seen their back and forth, and UK Viewer was being incredibly gracious. To me, it seemed like "Oh hey, not that I'm trying to quash your opinion, but you seem AWFULLY FIXATED" (like you're obsessed and there's something wrong with you). If there's nothing wrong with it then why bring it up at all? There are more subtly insulting ways of getting someone to stop doing something than coming right out and saying it.
And in terms of the other exchange, the poster was not in fact referring to "disrespectful" comments, but rather pro-Seaver remarks in general that they deemed to be "knee-jerk reactions" that were "useless" on this forum.
Where are you getting your conclusions from? I am going based on what I have read, the exchange. If that is not what UK viewer meant, what he or she said in their reply to Belinda, then he or she should have stated what you think he or she meant from the get go. There was no reason not to.
So, you don't consider comments that basically just call people haters other than a knee jerk reaction? Sorry, but to me an argument is one that outlines opinions and facts, not one that is just saying haters. You don't need to use those types of terms, if you have an argument, present it.
To UK viewer, I don't like Seaver, and I still don't think she really fits on the team, but I do agree with your insights on her in this episode. Thanks for posting what you think, even though some people are bound to react negatively to it.
Actually when I was watching the scene between her and Rossi, I felt Rossi's lines were rather ironic - especially when he said, "You want me to hold your hand?"; I almost burst out laughing cos it sounded like a rabid anti-Seaver person had written it. That scene made me (rather grudgingly) begin to relax my dislike for Seaver, and it's largely due to (the beautiful) Joe Mantegna's acting. I just love the way he shouts at people. And I don't know why no one else seems to see the whole exchange as being sarcastic, because it seemed that way to me. People comment that they were wasting time asking Seaver for her 'fresh eyes', but I think at that point they must have been totally desperate - they love Emily and the only clue to her whereabouts had just been taken out - why not just squeeze every channel available for possible leads? I don't think Seaver took over the investigation or "saved" it in any way - in another less emotionally-charged case there would have been someone else being this channel. It just so happens in this episode, and in this context, that channel became Seaver. And while I still think she was as entertaining as a floormat in her other scenes, this scene with Rossi actually evoked some interest in me. (So I put it down to JM. Because he rocks.)
I loved this episode. It made me feel like I had my favourite team back together. Paget is a goddess, and I am heartbroken to think there will be no more CM with her in it - I get depressed watching the reruns and seeing her being her usual self - but I guess in life, with everything, things change and you have to move on. Some people choose not to watch anymore, and that's their call, but I guess I'm not giving up just yet.
Here's to more healthy and insightful discussions among us all!
Anon said:
If they had Seaver pull Rossi down on the roof, people would have been complaining about Super Seaver the rookie having to save a veteran agent. We are at the point where literally EVERY single thing she does is ripped to shreds by some of the fans on here.
I actually kind of agree with you but thats why the character is a complete fail and cannot be redeemed. Nothing she will ever do will be credible as there is nothing to work with. The writers chose to not give her any quality suitable for being a member of the BAU. Her father was a serial killer but the only insight she could think of to being different from any other man was that he wouldnt allow a dog into the family. Which by the way didnt even help the profile so the writer doomed that aspect of her. After this many episodes you should see where her contribution or fit lies. But the writers really seem like they have no concept of what to do with her. Right down to what makes her special or different that will really add to the dynamics of the team...asking questions or being insecure/unsure of herself may work in a different TV series one where the whole premise is emotional and not intellectual. But it isnt working where the premise is high speed intellectual profiling. It just slows down the show and fans get frustrated. The sexy cop on the roof routine...did you really find it sexy? So much so that this guy is going to be twisted around her little finger. The writers again missed the boat. With each episode they have ruled out personality traits that would make her interesting til there is nothing left. I can understand why posters keep saying to give her a chance (because the writers having giving her anything to work with)but with each episode the chance has come and gone along with any type of redeeming quality to make her an asset and whats left is a character that will never fit IMO.
To UK Fan. I came across this blog by accident after regularly searching for CM stuff to read for years. I loved this website. I love the way its presented it has intimacy with the cast and writers, I loved the posts of fans like gubegirl and Optika and a couple of others. It gave me somewhere to lament the loss of JJ and Emily because i found (I don't know if you have) that most people this side of the pond arent overly bothered so long as they can still watch and enjoy the show, My first post was on Corazon - which I loved. And I felt so guilty for enjoying it because so many people didn't and I got corrected for an opinion I had apparently misintrepreted on a post I hadn't even read that I was a bit surprised and regretted adding my post. I think I may also have said that my only difficulty with Seaver was that she replaced two characters I didn't want to leave - I can't even remember my own words and am not going back to look. But boy did I feel uncomfortable with some posts after my post and being defensive and having no backbone of my own felt the need to keep apologising until someone told me not to feel guilty for saying I enjoyed an episode - they don't. The posts in response to mine probably weren't all that bad but I interpreted them that way.
There have been some venomous back and forths over Seaver and the show going or not going down hill but when you look at the posts it's only a couple of people doing it a and the administrator is very good at stepping in where it is needed and does it firmly and graciously.
It is good to have a balance and 99% of the people who I think have blogged for years here are extremely accommodating of difference in opinion and do seem to enjoy the challenge and the banter behind a good argument that is not explosive or unpleasant. Don't stop posting. Different fans from different countries see different things. CM is popular in the UK for different reasons to America and most of us wont understand the rules and regulations of FBI. CIA / Local law enforcement whether rangers or police or sheriffs or whatever so we look at other things.
PAT - Thanks - that's good enough for me. I like the math to add up - don't mind how.
English CM Fan, thank you for saying that. Back and forth over opinions is not something unusual in this context, but the majority of the people here are very accomodating of others people's views and opinions and address their difference of opinion in a respectful way. It is always interesting to see how people's views differ from mine and other people. Like Belinda and Pat, I don't think that the Seaver character is a fit, but respect UK viewer for presenting his or her rationale for this character even though I don't personally agree with them.
Another Limey here! I loved CM from the start because it's a different type of crime show. I like how the team unravel the mind(s) of the unsub(s) in order to catch them as I find psychology fascinating. I also liked the way the team gelled (whatever the character combination) - they were distinctly different people (and still are) but worked well together; each member brought their own area of talent to the table. Also, the UK wouldn't be able to make decent crime drama if the survival of the nation depended on it!
I don't know a huge amount about US law enforcement and certainly not enough to realise if the writers have made some huge geographical or juristictional stuff up. I've seen it done on TV over here and it's really annoying. However, in one episode (can't remember which one) Garcia said a phone number was from some city (can't remember where) but it was actually a Denver dialling code. I've been there and recognised the code from when I had to make a few pre-holiday phone calls from here. Damn, I'm too good!
Right, I'm off to drink tea from my fine bone china cup whilst nibbling delicately on a lightly toasted crumpet. ;-)))
Over & out...
Seaver a "great value". LOL!! Sorry I just don't see it. Seems likes the only purpose people keep hoping she has is a romantic relationship with Reid. I for one hopes that never happens. Didn't want it with Hotch/Prentiss, Reid/JJ or even Morgan/Garcia. Don't want it here either.
I have seen various posts that basically say you should go elsewhere if you have a pro-Seaver opinion because the majority here is anti-Seaver.
Or, when people post pro-Seaver things, others will say "you seem awfully fixated on Seaver" or "maybe you should go start an RN fanclub but not here."
Just like when you are anti-Seaver people call you a "hater". Right?
At least most anti-Seaver posters justify their reasoning. She is a poorly created Mary Sue that was inserted as a last minute and unnecessary replacement for a much better character. There isn't a single solid justifiable reason for Seaver. All of this arguing about her kind of proves that she needs to be replaced and quickly. It is a shame that her presence has taken away from Paget's swan song.
Let's just please talk about Paget/Prentiss. I am so unbelievably sad that she is no longer going to be on the show which is something that I will never forgive CBS for. Sadly, like some other people have said, I think that Paget made the decision to step away from CM long before there was any talk about her looking for a comedy pilot. The axe fell on that character as soon as CBS meddled into the show and eliminated two of its most prized possessions.
I loved the Prentiss character from the first moment she stepped onto the scene. Instantly, I knew that there was something special about this character. She was experienced, tough, poised, funny, compassionate and just all around lovely. From the moment she sat at the BAU table, she began proving her worth and value to the team. She was definitely one of the most wonderful female characters to date and CM will not be the same without her as it hasn't been the same without JJ.
CBS I want you to know and don't care if it makes any difference to you or not that I am not only erasing CM from my DVR, but every single CBS show that is cued. You have not only ruined what was once a phenomenal show, but you ruined any chance that I will ever again watch anything aired on your network.
I started to watch Criminal Minds becuase I am a huge fan of AJ Cook, but she wasnt in the first epeisode. However, I really liked the show and continued to watch the next week becuase then JJ showed up. At first I only liked the show, but then I began to love the show beauce of all the characters, especially when JJ became more layered and Emily came on board and when TG as Htoch became the lead of the great ensemble show.
Personally, I dont think Jeff Davis should've fully left the show beause there would have been more consistency in the writing if he was still there, but Ed Bernero has done some great things with the show as well. up until the 6th season. Its been an ok season.
But with the departures of two beloved and central, vital characters and Hotch fading into the backgorund ever since Seaver showed up... many fans are seeing red.
Emily is gone and now we are stuck with Garcia, who I love but cant take much more of, and seaver as the only female characters and where is Hotch?
Raine, I agree with all your comments about Seaver, how the writers tried to make her a combination of JJ and Emily and failed miserably.
I wont be able to take this character seriously ever, especially since Today I do. The character is not knowledgable, she was wrong about cutting, she was introduced as one of the best trainees off the obstacle course in the first five minutes, yet when she is actually in the field she is held at knifepoint or freezes until a veteran agent has tp put his hand on her head and literally pull her down!?
In Revelations, when JJ was attacked by the dogs, she screamed but she was still alert, ok...hypervigilant, but she was stable enough to not get killed and to protect herself and to do her job effectively. Seaver acts like a teenager almost. SHe annoys me to no end! I just want her off the show and I want JJ and/or Emily to come back, but no Seaver.
I hate that Hotch is now a background character now. Its been happening since Seaver showed up. There are many correlations and causes, many negative one, of Seaver. I see nothing that she contributes.
The potential that the character had, in theory, has been killed by what the character actually does and says.
It was natural that JJ and Hotch would conceal Emily who live:
They know better than any team the scope and consequences behind such cases, disappearance of the agent was killed to stop the chain. Emily it would investigate when everything is cool. Keep off the radar of Doyle to the team. And JJ and Hotch are the only ones with children who depend on them. Have much to lose if they continue to Doyle on the map.
Is that most do not want to continue watching Criminal Minds, for support Paget and AJ. However, lowering the hearing will lead to cancellation. Moreover, as it turned out to "Lauren" and Thomas Gibson interview, I think the next chapters will be interesting, as it has taken a big turn to the argument of the show. It is in tough times, it feels real family support, and now more than ever on any season of Criminal Minds, team unity will be evident. So I'm anxious to see the last chapters of this season, in the end, though six episodes were boring, I feel that after "Corazon", the scripts have been good, and CM production gradually has been washing face.
Even if JJ and Emily dont come back, or come back for recurring roles only, the show will fare better without Seaver. SHe does not belong on this show and never will. There are too mnay big and little things that cancel her out as an interesting or appropriate character for the show. Even if this character was on another show, Seaver still wouldnt make ssense becuase she is so badly wirtten, but she should get off CM.
I will always want JJ and EMily back!
In my opinion, regardless of whether the stories will improve, or if Seaver improves (which is unlikely), I think the ratings are going to plunge drastically. Over the course of this season, people have had it with disappointment fulfillment of expectations and they are going to abandon the show. How low could the show go, I don't know, but I'll get worried if the ratings fall below 10 million.
yes anonymous i think seaver can bring great value on this show once she is fully developed as a character.
What is it to you what i think, you got your opinion and i got mine.
I agree with (UK Viewer)
Hi Gloria,
For me, the decision to no longer watch was a painful one but one that TPTB at CBS and CM have made easier as season 6 has progressed. I agree that there have been some good episodes this season, none as good as prior seasons, but good in their own right. I simply cannot go along with the direction this show has been headed down for quite some time. It started with the loss of individuals such as Andrew Wilder at the end of season 4 and has only been worsened by the firing of AJ Cook and the complete mess that was made with Paget and the new character on the show. All of these actions and decisions highlight the complete lack of focus, direction, and respect for the writing on the show as well as the viewers. TPTB in their lust to propel another project on the back of CM cared little about the people it mowed over, including part of its viewing audience. I do not believe that their reign of destruction at CM is over. I do not have any faith, trust, or confidence that CBS or CM will do anything to repair the fences I believe they've torn dowm. I cannot support those kinds of actions. I love MGG, TG, SM, KV, JM and have no doubt that they will be successful, they are too talented not to. It is just that my time has come to move on from the show. I can no longer lament on the what should have been and the why, I simply must just move on. Criminal Minds will always hold a special place in my heart.
To dissapointedly confused - (blimey limey...so sorry, couldn't resist) what about cracker??? That was profiling under a different name - wasn't he a criminal psychologist? There was an Amercian spin off but I can't rember what it was called I didn't really watch it. We do some good crime shows here - just different. I would list them but htis is a CM forum and it wouldn't be appropriate. I do agree that a show like CM could only come from America. America has given us some top shows, this is one.
If the next six episodes are as good as Lauren the all is redeemed for me and I will look forward to season 7 - although still lamenting the loss of Paget and AJ.
Out of interest - does anyone know the viewing figures for the spin off?
Connie- JJ's secret was that she had turned down an offer from the Pentagon twice before being pushed out by Strauss, or the higher powers or the execs or whatever.
Optika- to date I don't think I've disagreed with any of your posts, you hit the nail on the head every time. I love reading your posts :)
The Seaver talk is getting tiring. You are all saying the same things over and over and over and over again. Can we just ignore her until she goes away, hopefully at the end of this season.
English CM Fan, someone posted the latest ratings earlier in the thread. They haven't been abysmal but nowhere near CM. The only time it cracked a 3.0, slightly above 3.0, was the premiere episode. By the second week, it lost 3 million viewers, it had a 15% drop in viewership, sorry, can't remember exactly when. This past week, it went up a bit but nothing at or over a 3.0. 3.0 and above is the benchmark to set. It definitely hasn't been the hit that CBS envisioned for it as I am convinced that it hoped that SB would surpass CM, in my opinion.
This is to the blog owner:
Are you gonna interview CM newest cast member Rachel Nichols on this blog soon?
Annoyed totally agree with you. Tired of the Seaver talk and really hope she goes away soon.
To the person asking for the Nichols interview....LOL!
English CM Fan,
The spinoff has been doing OK if it has a new episode of CM to lead into it. It's not a shoe-in for renewal but I think it will get another season.
Also, CM is the #4 television show, if you don't count American Idol. That's also boosted by the fact that it has to go up AGAINST AI, which 2 of the top 3 shows do not. I would say CM is doing fantastically right now, and ratings would have to seriously tank for it to be in any danger.
Ratings have had a bit of a boost with all the Prentiss drama lately, and my guess is they will decline slightly (back to normal) the last couple weeks of the season. Not enough to endanger it though.
"To the person asking for the Nichols interview....LOL!"
Didn't you know? Criminal Minds is now The Rachel Nichols show!
Lauren J., for sure CM is on the track for renewal it is just that no one knows now at least what it will look cast wise going into season 7. By May, there should be definitive word I think.
Cindy,
I agree. Paget has to give the word by May 28 I believe. However, I would bet serious money that her pilot gets picked up.
Honestly...I would not hold our breaths for a JJ return.
In terms of Seaver, I think she will probably return. Keep in mind that opinions on fan forums don't necessarily reflect the wider viewership. I have several friends and family members who are casual CM viewers, and their opinions of Seaver range from neutral to intrigued. None of them have any idea that she is controversial amongst the fans.
Crap that was the 666th comment! Let's keep commenting so I can be the 777th and offset it!
Unfortunately, I too believe there is no real hope of a Paget return. The previous posts on that topic I think are right. Plus, I think there is a strong chance her pilot will be picked up. Regarding cast, I was thinking specifically of TG and SM. There has been word regarding that and while I think it would be crazy for CBS to give whatever it is TG and SM are asking for within reason, I would really put nothing past CBS. As far as Nichols, don't know what her contract terms are but there have been characters on other shows, notably CSI Miami and I think someone mentioned Lost where people were signed as regulars but then dropped after one season because of negative fan reaction. I don't know what the networks used to come to that consenus nor am I saying that is what will happen here, just saying it is not uncommon. Again, not saying that will happen here.
I was waiting for someone to be 666. But I think you will be able to offset it :)
huh what is LOL about that i don't get it, there has been plenty of cast interviews here, so why not Rachel Nichols since she is the new addition?
BECAUSE SHE HAS NOT DONE ANY INTERVIEWS THAT AREN'T POSTED HERE.
I don't think there is any doubt that Paget's pilot will be picked up, plus, I think she is resigned to having season 6 be her final season :( Cast, I meant more TG and SM because of the contract situation. Hopefully, CBS will do them right, but I would not be surprised if they didn't. I think, to some extent, fan reaction is considered. It has been considered with characters on other shows that have been signed as regulars. Don't know how they go about gauging fan reaction, but again, that has played a role in other situations. We will all just have to wait and see.
Criminal Minds Fan do you know if there will be any auction stuff for the efforts in Japan
We run all our auctions right now for the ACS.
Thanks for the reply Criminal Minds Fan
Oh, okay. Thanks for the reply. Will look out for the next ACS auction item.
Auctions are running now with more items to be added in a few days.
If I didn't have better things to do I'd count the number of posts that don't include Ashley Seaver or Rachel Nichols somewhere in them. I bet we'd be suprised by the small percentage.
It really is too bad that we can't focus more on losing the talented Paget Brewster from our cast or even the episode itself rather on this polarizing character.
Can't we all just move on. If you don't like her, you don't like her and if you do, you do. Nothing that anyone from either camp says is going to change anyone's mind so why don't we all just stop trying. If you don't like her trust me, you are not a hater. And if you do like her, it doesn't mean you are more mature or above anybody else. We all have our own opinions and are entitled to state them. But at this point, I don't think anyone has anything fresh to say so let's just move on.
The interesting things that some people are saying about the actual episode itself are getting lost in the fray.
And oh well, I guess I wouldn't be able to count my post either.
Does someone have the transcript of Paget's chat last Wednesday?? I heard she was still considering returning to CM.
Paget/Emily is my favorite character! The word BADASS goes hand in hand with Agent Prentiss!! I do hope she comes back, however Paget belongs in comedy!
anne,
no transcripts allowed.
Paget has the option of coming back to CM. She has to let them know shortly after she finds out whether NBC will pick up her pilot. At this point, her pilot is looking very promising.
I agree though, Paget fits better in comedy.
Thanks for the information Anonymous! I think Paget fits in anything. She is a fantastic actress!!
The pilot looks like it is picking up steam casting wise- Donald Sutherland. I'm sure Jack Black will be quite the picth man too. I can't imagine he will not be part of the team to pitch the pilot to NBC.
There are a lot of factors to consider when determining whether a pilot will be picked up, not just cast. The network has to view the pilot episode that is produced, give feedback, and then see if it is something that is going to fit into what they are planning for their Fall line- up, along with whether it will sell ad space. This is put up against what may be potentially running against the pilot at the time they are thinking and if there is a strong lead in and lead out for the pilot.
Many pilots are being produced now, its a crazy time, so let's see how things turn out in May.
Strong lead in or strong lead out. The way I wrote that made it seem like it had to be both, that is incorrect. Sorry.
Thought this may be of interest pilot wise, there are currently 12 comedy pilots vying for a spot on NBC's fall line up, including one with Chelsea Handler. LOL.. The title is called "Are you there Vodka? It's me Chelsea." Why do I get hints of another comedy actor... lol... One of the other pilots has Christina Applegate.
It is hard to tell how many of the 12 comedy pilots will be picked up by the network, if any. Again, it depends on what the network is planning on their fall line-up will look like, what it will be running against from the other networks, if it is something that will have a strong lead in or lead out for the available time slot, and the advertising dollars. It could be that NBC is leaning towards being more comedy focused, or maybe crime drama focused, etc. But one of the key things is whether the pilot can attract advertising dollars, if it can't no dice.
I am sure they are furiously working on the script for the pilot for the network. No matter what, I know Paget is going to do a great job!!! Love her!!
Thank you - Anonymous.
This is a bit selfish for me to say, but I do hope she ends up coming back to her "family" as much as I want her to have her own show.
Watching CM without her is just too weird!! It's like drinking rum and coke without the rum!!!!!!!
If she ends up leaving, I do see her coming back for an episode or two. Doyle is still out there and I believe she's the only one who can kill him!!!
Do you guys think she went into hiding away from Doyle?? I think she's looking for him without the knowledge of her team to keep them safe. And her CIA friends are prob helping her.
A part of me thinks that she may be looking for him, but then, I think that may be a foolish thing for her to do on her own. I'm assuming that not many people outside of Hotch and JJ know that she is alive and that is probably best. It seems like Doyle can assemble a team of psycho's in an instant. Anyone going up against him had better not only have a plan, but a team backing them up. I think this is one of the mistakes Prentiss made, going it alone. Doyle is too connected and dangerous for anyone to go up against alone.
Of course, nothing can, I think, be fleshed out story wise without the return of Prentiss. Unless, they do something where the team goes in search of Doyle, or maybe Doyle comes seeking one of the team.
To Annoyed and Kris: I'm with you. So tired of it; it is so boring not to mention negative.
At least Ben, Mikey and Kenneth haven't reared their heads in a while - maybe they are off forming the much-awaited RN Fan Club?:)
English CM Fan and Diasappointedly Confused (can I call you d.c.?:) May I join you for tea: I have homemade French bread that's hours old and makes wonderful toast or maybe I should whip up a batch of flaxseed scones (that would be pronounced "sconns" NOT scones..I put currants or cranberries in them...then we shall proceed to sit down and watch CM re-runs or DVR'd season 6 epis...whichever you choose. I could go for another sit-thru of "Lauren"; twice rarely cuts it for a really intense epi like this one was.
And BTW, the guy who played Doyle was doing a commercial for DirecTV here on ion last nite in between CM reruns! He was speaking with an authentic foreign accent while pumping iron and being waited on by hot waitresses -how in character of him, don't you think? For an older man, he a handsome dude, esp those gorgeous blue eyes, but the thought of our Emily smooching on him when we already knew what an insidious
ba---rd he was, well, that was hard to take. Prefer him in the DirecTV ad, actually and will try not to forget my aversion to him in case he should show up on some future epi.
Emily was SO-O good Wed. nite. Loved seeing JJ again. Wished there could have been a Hotch-Prentiss moment and am shaking my head at why there wasn't. Matthew, you are almost as good a director as you are an actor but I need you to continue to be IN FRONT of the camera, sweetheart because I need to watch that wonderfully expressive face of yours rambling rapidly the way only Reid can rant. Ah-h-h, I think I shall watch Lauren again tonite, you talked me onto it. What else is there to do on a Saturday nite when you are a Fanatic and have no life, right?:)
Love you guys,
Sure they can wrap up the storyline without Prentiss returning- she winds up in a body bag.
That's my theory as to why they showed Doyle branding her with a cloverleaf- if the time comes when they need to write her off for good, they can use the cloverleaf to identify her body to the viewers without showing her face.
The whole fake death story was an interesting way to go, not only because the team has to deal with her "death," but if/when they find out she didn't die, they'll have to deal with those emotions.
I had a friend who thought one of her friends had died. It was a bizarre situation where they had a funeral and everything- and then it turned out the person was actually alive. This situation results in some seriously complex emotions for the friends and family who have gone through various stages of grief, only to have it mean nothing. Lots of anger, confusion, and joy all bundled up into one.
It could be fodder for some great writing and acting on CM if properly handled.
Anonymous, that is a good point about the cloverleaf, hadn't thought about that. It is something that they can definitely pick up on in the future.
BTW...
Is Emily SSA or just SA? Everyone on the original team is SSA, including Reid.
She is an SSA
lauren j. said...
In terms of Seaver, I think she will probably return. Keep in mind that opinions on fan forums don't necessarily reflect the wider viewership. I have several friends and family members who are casual CM viewers, and their opinions of Seaver range from neutral to intrigued. None of them have any idea that she is controversial amongst the fans.
I would actually say the closest "pulse" on what the general audience is probably thinking are the comments left on the news articles (like E!Online, TVGuide, etc) - by far and away negative about Seaver. Most people go the news articles, and not many are "diehard" enough to find a fanforum to comment in.
I used to be a huge Charlie fan from Lost, and if you went to any of the Lost forums you'd think he was the most hated character on the show, when in fact according to the news, producers, etc, he was one of the most beloved. The comments at the articles backed that up.
What I find amusing/interesting is when I go to to CM articles posted on non-fan forum sites, not only are the majority of the comments about Ashley negative, most commenters can't even be bothered to write the character's name, because she's made so little positive impression on them, they either don't know it or care to know it. She's usually referred to her as "new girl", "new blonde" "JJ replacement", etc. Since many people posting on those sites aren't as plugged into the reality of what is going on with CM as diehard fans in fan forums, they don't fully understand why JJ and Emily are gone, and they don't know why Ashley is there or what purpose she serves. Many people where shocked that JJ and Emily were fired, and there is still a drumbeat of anger wanting them back and Ashley to go away.
I finally managed to watch "Lauren" for the second time last night and was in shambles again. Knowing that Emily is alive doesn't help me all that much because for us viewers the outcome is the same as if she's dead. She won't be around any longer. :(
But I actually have a question, something I didn't understand or might have missed. When Morgen talks to Emily in the warehouse, he tells her they know what she's done for Declan and how he's proud of her. How did they find out? Garcia found out about the boy, but he had vanished 7 years ago and bodies were never found. Last thing we saw was Garcia shouting "OMG" when they realised the hand holding the gun at the boy and his "mother" was Prentiss'. So how did they find out that all of this was staged? We don't see any of that and I doubt they overheard Prentiss conversation with Doyle while they were fighting.
I hope, should Paget not return (which I think she won't), we will see her in one or two episodes to wrap up the whole story. At the moment, Doyle is on the run and Emily in hiding with everyone except Hotch and JJ thinking she's dead. There is no resolution to this situation and, at least to me, it's frustrating. They have a history of just dropping storylines they've began or hinted at, but I hope it won't be the case here.
The team has to come across Doyle again to do away with him forever. Either in a prison or in a coffin. As for Emily, she might be killed off in the end if Doyle gets to her first. Or she makes a reappearance, helps catch Doyle, and then decides that she has moved on from the BAU because she has made a new life for herself in the meantime. I agree that it would make for a very interesting and emotional storyline to see the repercussions of the team finding out that Emily was alive all the time and Hotch knew it!
LaShawna said...
Many people where shocked that JJ and Emily were fired, and there is still a drumbeat of anger wanting them back and Ashley to go away.
Yeah, and the thing is, I'm pretty sure that's not mutually exclusive. I get the feeling if CBS somehow managed to fix its horrendous mistakes and JJ/Prentiss were to come back, people *still* want Seaver gone.
I do understand the overwhelming opinion seems to be she needs to go, whether JJ/Prentiss come back or not.
LunaM said...
But I actually have a question, something I didn't understand or might have missed. When Morgen talks to Emily in the warehouse, he tells her they know what she's done for Declan and how he's proud of her. How did they find out? Garcia found out about the boy, but he had vanished 7 years ago and bodies were never found. Last thing we saw was Garcia shouting "OMG" when they realised the hand holding the gun at the boy and his "mother" was Prentiss'. So how did they find out that all of this was staged? We don't see any of that and I doubt they overheard Prentiss conversation with Doyle while they were fighting.
Somebody may have to correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Reid figured out it was Emily's hand holding the gun on Declan (her fingernails?). I think it'd be a logical step for them to assume Prentiss really wouldn't have killed the boy, but was merely staging his death.
I think it was Reid, well, don't remember if it was him alone or maybe collectively, that figured out that it was Prentiss because of her fingernails.
It would be great if they could wrap up the story with an episode or two with Prentiss, but I also don't think Paget is coming back. Melinda, the information you gave about pilots was great, thank you. They are a ton of pilots made for the networks and only a small, very small, percentage of the many pilots that get shot for the networks get ordered to series. I think that if Paget's weren't ordered to series that still wouldn't cause her to come back to CM. I think she would just look for another project.
Damn you CBS!!!!!
I got a theory. I actually know Seaver got a good amount of supporters.
But the supporters are to affraid to bother writing anything because when they do they are getting trashed. And that is not right.
If you don't like her stop watching the show, no need to everytime ruining a forum with seaver bashing. it is really getting freaking old now. Also because in the latest episode she really showed character growth after the roof scene.
Walter, you may not be wanting people who don't like that character to stop watching the show being that a lot of the general viewers are Nielsen and DVR watchers (they can now get ratings from DVR's). By general viewers I mean the ones that don't know the information that diehard fans do about AJ and Paget.
The general vibe I've seen on both forum and non- forum things is that this character is not being well- received. I've actually seen comments where people say stuff like, "The blonde chick they put in there, I don't even know her name that is how much I think about her." I read a lot and if by any chance the network is reading any of the things I've seen since Seaver has been on, trust me, it is not good. I'm not trying to start anything, truly I am not. I am tired of all this here, but just stating what I've seen since that character has arrived on the scene in different areas.
lets just see how she is in season 7. I can see she is getting way more developed soon
I think the people that don't liker made up their minds right before she even came and that is not fair in my book.
I'll add this to, aside from Seaver, the vibe that I am getting in both areas are that people are upset that yet another character is leaving the show for reasons they may, or may not know about.
One sure way to set up a show for failure is to get rid of key cast in such a short period of time. The general viewer is fickle and typically doesn't form the type of bonds with characters that people do on this forum. If they start to see too many changes, they get bored and/or upset and switch the channel. Of course, this doesn't happen with every show, there have been some that have successfully weathered this types of changes. The ideal thing, however, is to not stir in ingredients that can make the whole receipe turn out bad.
I've been watching a lot of older CM episodes lately, and by chance have caught some of the early Prentiss episodes and the early Rossi ones. What strikes me is that in both cases, the original cast characters didn't really like or get along with the new folks at first. Gideon is downright hostile to Prentiss at first. It takes at least a couple episodes in both cases for things to click -- you know, how things would actually be in the real world.
I'm assuming it's a deliberate way to acknowledge the fans' uneasiness about the new character. In "Lessons Learned", we don't have to like Prentiss just yet, since Gideon doesn't -- and as he warms up to her, so do we. (He invites her to play chess at the end -- still grudgingly.)
I hope when they bring in the next new character, they'll use the same approach.
Lin, I remember Gideon's reaction to Prentiss when he first met her. He was downright incensed that Hotch asked him to take Prentiss along with him and Reid to Guantamo Bay. He was trying what he could not to take her along, even bringing up the fact that she probably didn't have a "to go" bag to which Hotch replied "I don't think there is much this woman is unprepared for," may not be word for word, but along those lines. I loved how after Hotch said that the camera pans to Prentiss taking out her "to go" bag, :)
I got a theory. I actually know Seaver got a good amount of supporters.
But the supporters are to affraid to bother writing anything because when they do they are getting trashed. And that is not right.
If you don't like her stop watching the show, no need to everytime ruining a forum with seaver bashing. it is really getting freaking old now. Also because in the latest episode she really showed character growth after the roof scene.
I've waited until now to post anything because I just prefer to read this forum. Until now, I just let everyone's opinion just be their own. But I needed to comment after this post.
I think that if everyone did as this post suggested that he would find out that Seaver doesn't have as many supporters as he thinks he "knows" she has. Ratings would plummet. Yes let's all abandon a show for one character. Right. I think I'll just record and fast forward through the annoying blandness that is Seaver.
I'm a Reid fan. Next to him, I like Garcia and Hotch next so I wasn't as devastated as the JJ and Emily fans. Yes I think they are great and will miss them but I am still happy that my favourites are still on the show.
So I watched the Seaver character with "fresh eyes" and with no taint. She is not a good character. I've given her a lot of time to develope. Even this last episode didn't do anything for me. She doesn't provide a new spark to the team. She is by far the weakest character this show has ever had. I don't think someone with zero profiling experience belongs on this team. It isn't a hands-on training course and if this were real-life (which I know it isn't)and I were a fellow agent with years more experience, I'd be very resentful that after all my years on the job, this blonde took a job I coveted. Because you would think that the BAU is a goal for a lot of agents and here this girl just appears out of nowhere and lands on this elite team.
Sorry, she could be on this team for years to come but I'll never feel she earned her spot. If we can't have Emily and JJ back, the show needs to replaced Seaver with someone that makes a little more sense. And besides that, Rachel Nichols is just not a good actress. She sticks out like a sore thumb amoungst the great actors we have on this show.
Sorry to the moderators to keep talking about Seaver but I just had to say something about this post that I personally found ridiculous.
I have a question. Hypothetically: if the spinoff got cancelled because ratings were not good do you think they'd ask a.j. back? because they would again have the financial resources that they said caused the problem in the first place.
Walter said.
I got a theory. I actually know Seaver got a good amount of supporters.
But the supporters are to affraid to bother writing anything because when they do they are getting trashed. And that is not right.
If you don't like her stop watching the show, no need to everytime ruining a forum with seaver bashing. it is really getting freaking old now. Also because in the latest episode she really showed character growth after the roof scene.
I think the reason you feel Seaver supporters get bashed is because all those who dislike the character or can see that she definitely does not belong in the BAU give their reasons for feeling as they do. Seaver supporters, however, rarely give reasons why they are so supportive of her and why they feel she belongs in the unit. They continue to say wait and see. I’ve never had to give any other character half a season to prove their worth. I think this may be because there aren’t a lot of reasons out there why a cadet would be accepted into an elite team where members are normally required to have seven to ten years of experience. Seaver supporters shouldn’t be afraid of being trashed when they write what they feel if they supply good evidence to back up their feelings. Their feelings may be challenged, but that’s part of a good give and take exchange. Those of us who do feel slighted are the ones being labeled “haters” by the Seaver supporters. Name calling is uncalled for.
I think I might have accepted Seaver better if she’d worked with Hotch and Garcia in the beginning, where they showed her how they choose the cases, why one case takes precedence over another. Maybe after a few cases Hotch could ask for her input. Which of these would you choose? Something like that. I might have accepted it better than she stepped off the elevator on the sixth floor ready to be a profiler. I personally don’t think she showed a lot of character growth after the roof scene, I thought the hand holding was a little melodramatic and, usually, unless it’s really important, when I rewatch an episode I skip over Seaver completely but I will not stop watching the show because I am invested in the other characters who have proven they belong and made CM the great show that it is.
No matter how low the ratings for the spin-off get by the end of its 13 episode run this season, I don't think that TPTB will cancel it. They have put in way too many resources, most of which were stolen from CM, into creating the spin-off. Yes, it has proven to be a dud, a dud that the network will try to breathe life back into by maybe switching up the dynamic on the show, getting new writers, maybe switching it to a new day and time. There are different things they can try, and will try to strengthen that show. Too bad for them that they have picked CM nearly dry. Instead of extracting so much from CM, they should have made sure that some of the old CM writers were still there and that the strong CM cast they had was the same. You want a strong original to help a spin-off, not a bruised one, which is why I believe like others do that it was their intention to have the spin-off surpass CM, or maybe they were that stupid to believe that all of the changes they made to CM were going to help CM, let alone the spin-off. However, the spin-off has not been able to surpass the original, so now they are left with a bruised original and a bruised spin-off.
By bruised for CM I mean bruised cast and writing wise, not ratings wise. So far, the ratings have remained pretty consistent for CM. It is my opinion that the brusing to CM is in the form of cast and writing.
ya i deff agree with you there. they shouldnt have messed with something good. i also think that instead of bringing in a new character they should have just kept either aj or paget or both. it seems really unfair that paget and aj had to go for financial reasons when they suddenly had enough money to bring in a new regular cast member. i actually think i could learn to deal with seaver if they brought emily and/or jj back into the show. i cant help but have hope based on the way their exits were written.
I'll never understand why they messed with the team they had for this show. The team was great, perfectly fit together.
Personally, I think that if they bring back JJ, well, I am not sure how that will translate having Seaver and JJ on screen. I was reading on a different forum where a commenter said how the fact that many people believe that Seaver is an interloper, a JJ look alike, that having them both on screen may be a bit jaring for some people, which come to think about it, maybe that is why there weren't many scenes with JJ and Seaver both in the same shot. Although, I don't think JJ was featured enough in this episode which is a shame. Also, this person said how now Seaver being there is highlighting for some that JJ is gone, if JJ and Seaver were be together on the show that could possibly highlight to some that Prentiss is not there. Opening up a "Bring Prentiss back" where now there is still a "Bring JJ back."
Still taking in this comment. One thing I do agree with is that now this character is going to have to carry the weight of not only JJ still being gone, but now Prentiss being gone, and in my opinion I don't think this character is strong enough to carry that weight. It is a lot of weight to carry. But again, that is just my opinion.
that is a very good point i didnt even think about how it looked having both jj and seaver on screen. i really don't think shes been as well received as they thought she would be. maybe if they brought her in starting in season 7 it would have been different because everyone is still pissed about emily and jj leaving. I also think jj should have been shown more in this episode but the fact that she had such an important role in emilys exit makes it a little better. i'm glad that emily isn't dead though because i wouldnt have thrown a fit. i think this is going to be an interesting story line on the show though. with them having to deal with emilys "death" or if in the future they reveal that she isn't really dead. but i don't see them addressing the ian doyle case or emily really being alive unless paget does come back to the show. they have a history lately with leaving story lines unfinished. i know this is going to sound kind of bad but i hope her new show doesn't get picked up so shell come back to CM. i know shes probably still hurt and pissed with cbs but CM isn't the same without her. and aj for that matter.
The CM Spin-off's ratings average between 9-10 million--that is considerably lower than its parent show of 12-14 million, but is that really bad overall if you compare it to other shows' ratings? The spin-off still wins its 10 O'clock slot, sometimes, so perhaps different expectations?
Looking at the final season ratings for now-canceled CBS shows, Ghost Whisperer averaged 6-8 million, Numb3rs 7-8 million (with a couple of 9 million), Cold Case 9-10 million, Medium 5-6-7 million, The New Adventures of Old Christine 5-7 million.
When they were successful, they all averaged over 10 million, up to about 16 million.
What does this tell us? From this, I think that any show that falls at or below 9-10 million is at risk for cancellation. This is what I'm afraid of for Criminal Minds-- if its ratings start to slipping down below 10 million, that could cause several things--a reduced episode count, change of time slot, or all-out cancellation (not this year, but in the future).
There's no doubt that Criminal Minds will be renewed for season 7--ratings are still healthy despite a slight drop--but if ratings are drastically lower for the rest of the season, what would happen to it?
I know, it is a tough position for fans to be in because you want Paget to be happy and if that means a new show, then great. Yet, there is this part in some fans that just want her to come back and for all to be fixed. I just wish none of this would have happened. There was no need for all of this messing with the show.
May is still a way's off, I think a lot of people are not going to exhale until May rolls around and a decision is made about whether the pilot will be picked up by NBC or not. Seems like there are a lot of comedy pilots in the NBC pool, so we'll have to wait and see which pilots (comedy and non- comedy) NBC decides to pick up.
Yes, for the time slot that it is in the spin-off is okay. I think it is a situation of expectations, not viewer expectation, but network expectation. The network pulled out all the stops with the spin-off bringing in an Oscar winner which I'm sure isn't cheap. Plus, they cut many things from CM to get the spin-off rolling. I can't imagine that they were expecting that the spin-off would not be in the 12 to 14 million viewer bench of CM.
CBS and CM have got to be strategic about how they enter into season 7. No doubt the show will be picked up for saeson 7, but if it wants to make it to a season 8, they have got to get strategic and stop with the half-baked decision making we've been seeing for far too long now.
ya it does seem like there are alot of comedy pilots. maybe thats hinting at the fact that they want more comedy in the line up? because they recently just added a few drama shows with harry's law and the cape. Even if paget returns though i dont think all will be fixed. there's probably still going to be alot of hostility by the fans for even messing with the show in the first place. but it will make me really happy if she comes back because emily is my favorite character. they need her character to balance out the show. they can't just have the boys breaking down the doors that would be a bit sexist. they need paget's badass character. and i think if they try and make seaver that character they're going to get even more heat than they already are.
Somebody put up a link on the other forum I go to where you can check what is currently been ordered to pilot for the different networks. NBC has 10 drama's that have been ordered to pilot. Will be interesting to see how many of the 10 drama's and 12 comedies get slots.
I don't watch NBC. I'll definitely start watching if Paget's pilot gets picked up. Does anyone here watch shows on that network? Is it more drama saturated or comedy saturated?
I watch nbc and the only shows that i watch are dramas. i think it has about 7 comedies, but this is the last season of the office so itll be down to 6 if im right. most of its shows are dramas though. It's just my opinion but nbc seems like a drama network because i personally don't find a majority of their comedy shows funny.
Oh wow, the Office is ending. I used to watch that show before, but stopped watching it a couple of seasons back.
actually i could be wrong on that one, i know for sure that it's steve carrell's last season. i'll look that one up though and see what i can find.
sorry i was wrong on that. the office isn't ending steve carrell is just leaving the show...someone told me false information lol.
heyya,
thank you. I enjoy reading your posts as well.
I'm just suggesting it.
CRIMINAL MINDS FAN, will you do a thread where the fans cans write down their ideas on what they would like to see in season 7. WHether or not AJ or Paget come back, and I really want them to, I still want to ssee some more character development and layers and I am sure that many fans have unanswered questions. It could be an idea suggestion post. After all, many fans do know the charaters better than some of the new writers.
@ English CM fan.
Hiya! Yeah, I remember Cracker from back in the day. I bought the box set from Amazon recently but I've not had the chance to watch it yet (looking forward to it; it was filmed in Manchester not long before I went to university there). However, there's not much comparison between Robbie Coltrane and Thomas Gibson is there?! They did a US version but it was rubbish by all accounts - like Law & Order: UK which is so cringeworthy I can't watch it.
@ Gubegirl - you supply the cakes and we'll supply the tea (can't be doing with foreign stuff - sorry!). We say "sconns" in the north btw, it's those southern types who can't talk properly (I used to live near London) who say "scones"... ;-)))
As for the spin-off, I got my Source to provide me with the first two episodes (out of curiousity) but have sacked it. It's the televisual equivalent of BrennivÃn; an Icelandic schnapps drink with a vile taste (a metaphor for the spin-off) which is consumed to mask another vile taste (can't believe I'm using putrifying shark meat as a metaphor for the AJ & Paget fiasco!). I was given a bottle as a gift - nice eh? - and despite it being nasty stuff (how I perceived the spin-off) I may go back from time to time - if it's set somewhere in the US I've visited. Hopefully it'll get pulled before then though! I loved the original show's team from the pilot episode, but this new lot just do my head in (especially the Welsh bloke doing a terrible English accent).
With regard to my new identity, I'm liking "Blimey Limey" (ta for that English CM fan) so I'll give it a go...
Just testing...
Aww.. I'm going to miss the Disappointedly Confused persona... but Blimey Limey it is , LOL...
Does anybody know what the significance, if any, there was to JJ meeting Prentiss in Paris?
@ Fedra
If we start getting episodes like "The Thirteenth Step" again, Disappointedly Confused will be BACK!
the thirteenth step was just horrible. The worst episode to date for CM
To Blimey Limey - ha ha....no really, my sides hurt.
Matthew did a fantastic job...he's very talented director and I hope he gets more opportunities.
As for the episode...powerful and beautiful!! I loved it!!
I was so glad to see AJ back even though she was underused, as always. But then she left us again!
I'm so utterly proud of Paget and Emily! Both of them make me happy! It was unbelievable what Emily had to go through to protect Declan and her team. It's sad that now she needs to live apart from them.
Paget is a godness! She's is divine and there are no enough words to describe her. I don't care what people need to do do bring her back...she has to get back because she has to.
The end was beautiful!!
Prentiss and JJ will always have Paris!!
I have to say my all-time UN-FAVORITE CM epi was "Honor Among Thieves" about the Russian mob. Cutting off of body parts, etc. one vic's daughter was involved (sick) and Prentiss' mom got them involved in the case. Really bad; I cannot sit thru a rerun of of despite there being NOTHING else on TV where I have seen some old epi's 6 and 7 times and still enjoy them.
Now "The Thirteenth Step": that was just so NOT CM. That was like the writers, directors and producers from one of the CSI's with prev action movie experience came over to the CM set, took the cast hostage and basically, shot the h--- out of everything.
Not boring, and the unsubs acting was good, altho' everything from their dress, sex and gun use was WAY over the top and there wasn't much "meat" to the story: i.e., why these two were so screwed up, how did they get this far and what could have been done to prevent all the carnage they caused? They were WAY more out of control than most unsubs we have seen and I think a few of us were more than taken aback. Let's not go there, guys, OK?
Adrienne Palicki, sweetie, go back to Friday Nite Lites - you were so damn good as the slutty but likeable Tara and I appreciated you much more.
I am praying for the return of some good former writers (puh-lease?) and will bake them homemade bread, fresh scones (sconns as we proper ones say) whatever and will around to pour you fresh coffee or dangle grapes, whatever it takes to help you get the job done. Just think about it, OK? I'm sure there are many serious fans to help with the "proof-reading" of scripts for character accuracy, as well, which is SO very necessary to regain the credibility of the show.
Aa-h-h I am so rambling, must go and fetch myself a crumpet to go wiht my coffee and get on with some real work instead of visiting with y'all...tho' that is ever so much more fun. And Blimey Limey: glad I am pronouncing "scone" correctly, altho' not a Brit and only married to a Canadian, everytime people here in the U.S. say "scone" I feel the need to correct them...
BTW, watched "Lauren" again last nite and am still not understanding the details of it all - so intense, confusing and maybe meant to be. Esp the whole Declan storyline and questions about Prentiss' role in protecting him, he and his mother getting killed despite her efforts, her appearing to have been the killer but our team knowing that was not true. A bit much for me to digest it all - quite mind-boggling actually. Prob'ly need to have Reid explain it to me and then play his rant back on 33 rpm to have a shot at getting it:)
Any of you feeling the same??
Thought this might be useful information for people about pilots from an article:
"Pilot Season
Every year right around the same time (dubbed "pilot season" , all television networks commission several dozen speculative television series to go into production. These are called "pilots." A pilot is intended to be the first episode of a show should it get turned into a series. The process starts early in the year when the network looks at a variety of factors, including shows it's had success with in the past, current trends, their upcoming fall schedule and determines the kinds of shows that they feel they need to run. Pitches and presentations are then made by creators hoping for their show to get a greenlight to film a pilot.
The Selection Process
After the pilots are filmed for that particular year, each network gets their top executives together and they go through and view each individual pilot with the creator of the show. They discuss their weaknesses and strengths, as well as any ideas the creator may have for the show if it is turned into a series. Everything is considered from the intended age bracket of potential viewers to how many ads could potentially be sold for that particular show. After the creator makes one final presentation, the executives deliberate and begin to fill out their fall schedule. They look at what they specifically need as a network, but also what other networks will be programming that they will need to compete against. After the schedule is finalized by the executives at a network, the order for production is given. The pilots that were not picked up are rarely seen by anyone after that point."
I think with all the info they had to give us in order to tie up loose ends, they used the visual cues to clue the audience in and keep the story going, without keeping track of where the characters themselves were in terms of understanding what was happening. I spent the first 10 minutes wondering how they had realised Emily was even missing. Or maybe that was just me not paying attention.
If I were allowed to write an episode for CM, I would make an unsub kidnap Seaver, and then give her a psychotic break and kill the unsub, and have everybody go, oh the unsub's going to kill her, but actually Seaver's become the unsub after all. Muahaha. Oh well.
Haha...adrift that is a brilliant episode idea ;) someone needs to email it to the CM writers asap.
If we're talking horrible CM episodes, mine all time "unfavourite" episode has to be a toss up between "What Happens At Home" and "25 to Life." The former was a sobfest, it was boring, and senseless. The latter was just ridiculous and the absence of Hotch made me dislike it even more :P
'25 to Life' was a really interesting episode, I thought. I'm surprised that no one else seems to have appreciated the writing. I liked Morgan's independence of mind in trusting his instincts, followed by his recoil into doubt and anger at being tricked. And then the courage to come back again to the original trust. The whole interchange between Strauss, Rossi and Morgan in that episode was compelling, the way sympathies ran and didn't run.
Kyle Secour was great in the role of the innocent man. It wasn't the average CM episode and I always like it when they try something new.
Of course, I loved Rossi's reply to Strauss's 'You don't get the politics, do you?' 'Yes, I get it; I just don't care.' Lovely delivery and good characterisation. Love that go-it-alone ballsiness and fight that Rossi is always able to bring -- and in that same vein, the way that he trusts Morgan's instincts too. It was a really interesting episode in those terms.
Being a Brit, I didn't get the thing about the representation which a lot of folk seem to demur at, but I wonder in a way if that wasn't a canny decision on behalf of the writers. It's easier to avoid annoying the incumbent politician if you're creating a constituency that doesn't exist. Here we might create 'The Rt Honourable Member for Little Sheephampton' or something. It doesn't exist. You make your point. You don't get a political backlash.
It's possible.
UK viewer
I admit I did like the Rossi/Strauss/Morgan exchange. It was one of the better parts of that eppy(for me), another thing I appreciated was that Emily got some good screen time. I loved her bits and the slow motion wiping the blood off of her hands. But the ending was just too ridiculous and over-dramatic for me. It just felt off. "What Happens At Home" and "25 to Life" are the only episodes I've seen only once. I keep rewatching old eppys but I just can't bring myself to watch these two. Watching them is like torture. "What Happens At Home" moreso. I'm alarmed that my most hated episodes are all season6 episodes. I think it has by far been the weakest season :(
i was left underwhelmed by this episode, to be honest. I recall Revelations, Minimal Loss, Omnivore and (of course) 100 (and a ton of other episodes that i have watched and rewatched and watched again, discovering something new every time). In this episode, something was missing - for me it was a sort of 'disconnect' between the actors and the emotions their characters were 'supposed' (which is the operative word here) to feel. The acting felt forced to me. It was almost as if they were saying the appropriate things with the appropriate gestures but without the heart. TG seems the most jaded to me these days and i love him to bits. Where is the brilliance of the past 5 seasons? It breaks my heart, really, because the Hotch character is monumental and TG owns it. I'm sad to see PB go. Good luck to her in whatever she does, but i'm just not feeling it these days.
The episode of CM that I dislike the most and refuse to rewatch again is "Memoriam". I hope I never have to watch an entire episode where one of the characters acts like a pathetic little bitch because of their daddy issues again. Ugh. Awful, just awful. I loved the episode before it with the kidnapped little boy and Reid dreaming about leeches, but the follow-up was just brutal IMO.
I really didn't care for the Prentiss arc either. It wasn't Criminal Minds. It was some far-fetched, poorly contructed spy drama and I'm glad it's over. I wish PB all the luck in the world with her new spin-off and I'd like to see her come back to CM if that doesn't pan out, but wow that whole spy story was just lame and how awkward will it be for the team if she does come back.
For me the worst episodes are those of the Foyet arc -- so I have a whole load of can't-bear-to-watch-'ems. IMO it was self-indulgent and not terribly convincing story-telling. I almost gave up the series. Or rather, I did give it up and found my way back by lucky accident when the coast was clear.
It's like they identified the fans' favourite character (for the most part), and then wrote rather lazily to fit the market without paying attention to consistency of character or to good taste (I'm sorry to say). There were a few good episodes along the way (the ones that were most independent of the arc, eg the construction worker eppy) but there were some right stinkers too. The bizarre thing was that it was all about Hotch so you might think it would be good for Gibson but (for me) he didn't come out of the arc any better than his neglected fellow cast-members. It wasn't playing to the actor's strengths is my feeling.
I guess this is one of the reasons I'm enjoying this season so much more. Feels back on track. And I appreciate the lack of populism. It's reassuring at some level because it says someone's owning the show rather than writing just to please an audience. It feels like CM has come back to what it's good at and I can't help but feel optimistic. The TG and MGG interviews we've had lately add to my hopes. Particularly TG saying that it's time for Hotch to be happy. True. I think they pushed him to tragedy because they lost the dynamic of happy home life / stressful work life. Character needs some kind of dynamic, a direction of sorts. So make him happy again. Give him a reason to bring home a self unharmed by his work. It'll be good for the show.
Can I add my voice to back up whoever made the call for a thread to talk about what we'd like to see for Season 7? Risky business, I know, but it would be a great discussion to have.
UK viewer
My least favorite episode was Legacy - where they were going after a "street sweeper" who was killing homeless and prostitutes. The episode was almost reminiscent of "Saw," with sort of a warehouse of torture for the victims.
I think that episode marked a turning point on the show, where they stopped using violence and gore as an incidental necessity of the subject matter, but rather lingering on it with the methods of a B-grade grindhouse movie.
The first two seasons there was a lot of profiling, but there's only so much the writers could do with that before they started repeating themselves. So they began to fill in the time by focusing less on the team and more on the unsubs. This served a double purpose where they didn't have to do so much exposition and could get away with more action, violence, and gore, and that I am sure helped with the ratings initially.
I stopped watching CM regularly last season because it had gotten so...just gory for the sake of being gory. On top of that, I just plain got bored with it.
I tuned in to one of the episodes earlier this season, "Middle Man," to see if it had changed at all. When I saw the combine run over the body in the field, I changed the channel.
I tuned in AGAIN to see if the new girl changed anything...and I was pleasantly surprised. (THIS IS NOT ABOUT SEAVER THE CHARACTER SO PLEASE DON'T START THAT UP AGAIN.) I don't know whether it was having a new team dynamic, or whether it was because of the whole Prentiss storyline, or a combination of factors, but the episodes seemed more like the good old days. If you want my personal opinion, I think having the "new girl" has forced the team to start profiling again, and because of that the camera has less time to linger on gory images. "Coda," for instance, was one of my favorite episodes of all time. But again, this is not a debate about the Seaver character and whether you like her or not, but rather how the screen time has been more allocated to the team and profiling since her arrival. (and yet I think people will still start complaining about Seaver in response to this post)
I know a lot of people think the writing has gone downhill lately, but I personally think it has improved. "Internal logic" and continuity aside because frankly, this show has always required major suspension of disbelief so why stop now? For all the people who said they will STOP watching, count me in as someone who has BEGUN watching more regularly because of the changes that were made.
I could not more strongly disagree with regard to the Foyet comment and the fact that season 6 has signaled the return to anything remotely resembling the brilliance that was once Criminal Minds.
The Foyet arc, if you will, included some of the most strongest, cleverly wriiten work the show has ever produced. I'm not saying this because of Thomas Gibson, I love him and think he is great, but it is the way that they incorporated that storyline with the rest of the team and the show. Today, we have lazy to non- existent profiling, more bang bang shoot em'up scenes and a complete disconnect between characters that were completely in sync with one another before. I like writing that engages me and makes me think, not sensationalism and increased violence for the sake of increased violence. There will be an element of both of these in Criminal Minds, sure, but it is like they have become the default and the intelligent writing has taken a back seat. I'm not even going to waste my internet connection to talk about the latest failure they have chosen to insert into the show.
The season 7 thread idea is a nice one but I would prefer not see it because I know that it will just turn into what we have been seeing here for weeks. A back and forth about a character that again I don't want to waste my internet connection typing about.
Atticus, I love your post. In fact, except for the fact that it's well-argued, and all that, I could have written the same thing. I'm right back in trust with CM this season, and hoping for good things in the future.
UK viewer
PS I should think it's important for the writers occasionally to read supportive posts, if they pay attention to any of this stuff. It could get to be discouraging otherwise and we don't want 'em to give up altogether. On the other hand it is of course a great sign for the show that everyone cares enough to squabble over its direction.
CBS and TPTB gave up on the show when they fired the show's strongest writer's. Look, I get that the writer's strike did a number on many TV shows, but there should have been some effort made by the show to keep at least a couple of those writers, chief being Andrew Wilder. To date, I will say that the loss of Andrew Wilder is one of the greatest for the show and it is what has ushered in what we have been seeing since mid season 5. If they don't invest in the writing staff and start making wise casting choices, then I don't know what else to say.
sf81387 , I agree wholeheartedly with you . Memoriam is one of my least favorite CM episodes and I didn`t care about the over the top Prentiss super spy story arc. I have loved and adored the Emily I have known before the spy story. Now I don`t know what to think about her. They turned her into a female Jason Bourne or Jack Bauer. Which is kinda sad for me.
uk viewer , I agree with you about the Foyet story arc and about season 6. You are courageous to voice that opinion on this board LOL.
The Foyet arc is the worst CM has to offer? Now I completely understand how you can like Seaver. Makes total sense to me now.
zagi, if I'd known it was courageous to say it here, you can bet I wouldn't have said it!
UK viewer
Not just here UK viewer almost anywhere. The Foyet arc is classic CM for many people on the forums I go to. Of course, you can disagree with that and share it here or anywhere, but nothing close to the writing I've seen in that time period has been matched today. I fear that with the loss of so many essential writing staff, along with the loss of AJ, Paget, and now the addition of, OYE, Seaver, that type of writing is in the past.
Why am I not surprised by the not liking the Foyet arc = loving Seaver post LOL.
I want to clarify my previous post. I like season 6 , but I don`t like the Spy story arc. The spy story , while "Valhalla" had nice Emily/team moments and "Lauren" was great as a thriller was just not Criminal Minds for me.
I just saw there was a 25 to life discussion. I liked the episode very much. I liked the scenes between Morgan and Sanderson. I loved how Rossi always trusted Morgan`s instincts. Great Morgan and Rossi scenes. I agree though that the confrontation scene near the end was a little over the top. That was to me typical Erica Messer too much drama writing.
What has gotten me in the last couple of seasons is the whole lack of any continuity in the writing. This tends to make the episodes look stupid.
In one episode Garcia had four brothers who all had tadpole shirts, in another she was an only child.
Hotch was a prosecutor, worked SWAT at some point and then the FBI where one of his first posts was Elizabeth Prentiss' security detail while Emily was away at Yale. Emily is not that much younger than Hotch.
Reid's eidetic memory has gone from remembering what he read to remembering everything.
And in this latest episode, the funeral for Emily, nice casket, but she explicetly expressed in Cold Comfort that embalmed bodies were merely painted and polished and that she just wanted to be cremated. Someone on the team would have remembered that, at least Reid who remembers everything suddenly.
Getting rid of writers who knew the characters was a huge mistake because now what some of them write is merely laughable due to its incongruity to the characters we've grown used to.
Don't want to speak for the Anonymous but for me I took that as more to do with the writing lately, writing that was, in my opinion, wonderful during the Foyet and pre- Foyet time versus what most of season 6 has produced. In my opinion, Seaver is just a byproduct of just how much the writing has gone astray versus that time period, the character is a symptom of a larger problem. Again, my opinion, don't want to start any more craziness here.
Ok here goes last weeks episode really sealed it for me. Yes i am really beginning to like Seaver now.
She was great at the bulletin with the other guys.
I'm glad for you gubler my man because it made me dislike the character even more, something I didn't think was possible, but apparently is. Now it is becoming clear to me how much that character will pull down the rest of them. It has mostly been Rossi now due to the Prentiss arc, but now it will infect the rest of the characters.
I think I am just about done with Criminal Minds.
This has been going on for days. Now we have people listing their least favorite episodes.I was hoping that in honor of Paget, Matthew, A.J. and all the cast this thread could have returned, just for a while, to its original purpose, dicussing the episode. Perhaps even taking this time to wish Paget well and to congratulate Matthew on a job well done. This episode is being very well received out there.
So congratulations to all involved in this episode, it must have been difficult and emotional for all of you. Thank you for you continued hard work.
(I know this comment does not refer to everyone and you will know who you are.)
did anyone watch AJ Cook's Brining Ashley Home laast night? I am trying to find it online so if you know where let me know please.
Perhaps Emily's mother picked the casket burial route. When you are dead your family members get to decide no matter what you wanted. Most respect your wishes but not everybody does.
Of course we know it was really bad continuity!
I apologize if somebody already covered this but I don't have time to go back and read all the messages between Fri. and #601! I suspect that CBS was going to kill Emily off and only the fan backlash prompted them to tag in the Paris scene (without Paget since we only see her from behind). I think they underestimated how popular she was with the fans. (Duh!) I mean why show her from behind, it isn't like anyone didn't KNOW who that was even without the fingernails.
But at least now the door is open for her to return at anytime. Which I sure hope she does. Even if she films the pilot and it got picked up she could still choose CM if the deal was good enough. They reshoot pilots all the time. I'm not a big comedy person so I would prefer her in a drama! In fact she was great in Huff (and allowed to be so much prettier!) and got to be funny and dramatic.
They (BAU and/or Emily or all of them) will have to go after Doyle because as long as he is alive she will never be able to live a normal life. Never have a family or settle down and always be looking over her shoulder. So I think after some healing time and grieving time (for the life she lost) will come the PO'ed time where she hunts him down and kills him! Slowly! With a stake!
=)
Unless Hotch and Morgan get him first! Then she can come home and only have to worry about normal psychos! All that could drag on (on or offscreen) for up to half next season! Or more!
Ugh. Next season of course I want Emily back and JJ back and even if they do not come back I want Seaver gone. Her character doesn't fit and there are tons of potential candidates to play a real profiler out there.
SUMMERHORSE
To the last "Anonymous" comment...
I agree that the thread has gone off track but we all have such strong feelings for this show, it's hard to not get involved in other discussions.
I thought the episode, while intense and maybe a bit off-line than other eps, was very well done. MGG did an excellent job, he's very talented and apparently not just in his acting!
It was great to see AJ back and while I wish her and PB well in whatever they do from here, they will be sorely missed.
I watched past eps on ION and A&E over the weekend and there is really just a difference in those seasons compared to this last one. It's very disappointing.
That said, I love CM, will watch the rest of this season to see where things are with the show and am happy that there will always been re-runs and DVDs to watch the best cast/show ever!
did anyone watch AJ Cook's Brining Ashley Home laast night? I am trying to find it online so if you know where let me know please.
I watched the first 45 minutes of it and turned the channel. AJ looked beautiful with the darker hair and played her role well, but it was pretty boring and I couldn't stay interested. Unless someone records it and puts it on Youtube I don't imagine it will be available online any time soon, but they are showing the movie again on LMN (Lifetime Movie Network) on March 24th, March 25th and April 16th.
You might try the LMN website. Maybe they have movies available online there.
Just a possible fyi with regard to when to expect news about whether NBC will pick up Paget's pilot. If the pilot gets what's called an early pilot pick-up, then it is possible that we may hear news of it being picked up prior to May. Early pilot pick- ups are the ones that not only have received network approval, but that have already gotten advertisers to sign on board to buy spots prior to the May upfronts.
The Lifetime movie site shows the movies online for free for a limited time. You should keep checking the site to see when they will upload her movie and then watch it as soon as you can as they will only keep it there for a limited time.
I would love to see Paget do both shows actually. It might be a shorter episode run for My Life as an Experiment and Emily could come back to CM as well.
I also think that with JJ's minimal, underused but still fantastic performance in Lauren showcased a more mature, confident, sophisticated and poised side of JJ. JJ can even come back as a replacement for Strauss and have Strauss sent to some other promotion.
Seaver should just be gone.
Hotch should be back as the full time leader, Morgon his second in command, Rossi back to his dramatic but legendary ways, and Garcia back to normal. And Reid, well there are so many possibilities with. him. I think he has the potential to be a really dark character as does JJ, considering what we know about their past. With JJ, I am referring to her sister committing suicide and how that may have influenced her career path. Definielty more Hotch please!
Paget...will not do both shows. She will hear from NBC by May 25 whether MLAAE has been picked up, and she must notify CBS of her status by May 28.
sf81387 said...
The episode of CM that I dislike the most and refuse to rewatch again is "Memoriam". I hope I never have to watch an entire episode where one of the characters acts like a pathetic little bitch because of their daddy issues again. Ugh. Awful, just awful. I loved the episode before it with the kidnapped little boy and Reid dreaming about leeches, but the follow-up was just brutal IMO.
Haha...I've seen "Memoriam" so many times I've actually lost count! It's amongst one of my favourite episodes. Of course I'm biased here because Reid played an integral role in this one and to this day there hasn't been a single Reid episode I have not loved. I know many people disliked "Corazon" but I really loved it, it's amongst my top season6 eppys. I thought "Memoriam" was a really sweet episode, and I particularly liked the team interactions in this one, but that's just me. I'm a sucker for inter team "family moments" they make me smile and fill me with warmth. Oh man I sound so lame. I'm sorry, that's just how I feel :P
I still think that season3 has been the best season so far. The team was perfect in season3. The episodes were fantastic. The writing was wonderful. There was a nice balance of character development and profiling. All the main characters had their moments in season3. I just love it. The season3 finale was the best too.
Thanks for clearing up those dates Anonymous. I've seen both dates floating around but didn't know which tied to which. But I guess if the pilot gets picked up earlier than that like the other Anonymous wrote, the early pilot pick-up, then maybe wwe might hear news before.
Paget could come back as recurring though. SO may AJ. I would rather have them as recurring than have Seaver on the show at all, and just have the Bau boys club as it is without Seaver. It wont be a suasage fest becuase garcia will still be there being rammed down our throats with her comic relief and whatnot but its better than watching Seaver ask stupid questions, diss Reid, state the obvious, deliver profiles when she cant profile, take away from Hotch's leadership role and general characteristics, do I really need to go on? The list goes on and on...
God i miss Emily and JJ so much!
Paget could come back as recurring though. SO may AJ. I would rather have them as recurring than have Seaver on the show at all, and just have the Bau boys club as it is without Seaver. It wont be a suasage fest becuase garcia will still be there being rammed down our throats with her comic relief and whatnot but its better than watching Seaver ask stupid questions, diss Reid, state the obvious, deliver profiles when she cant profile, take away from Hotch's leadership role and general characteristics, do I really need to go on? The list goes on and on...
God i miss Emily and JJ so much!
THIS. Everything.
No thanks to boys club - boys tv show
This show needs a female cast member and finally seaver showed some real promise in last weeks episode she could become really great. Along with the boys. They also need a new press liason. If AJ could come back it would be cool.
"Could become great," no thanks. I don't want to continue watching what was once one of the best shows on television keep getting ripped open and gutted for a character will just "become more terrible." JJ and Seaver together on air, nope, don't want to see the "Doublemint Twins" either.
Get AJ back, make Paget all sorts of offers to come back, get some of the old writers on board and let's do this for season 7! Enough of this stupid "creatively refreshing" routine.
Paget stated in the chat (and if I'm not suppose to talk about the chat here,please let me know..I don't want to be kicked out) that the final scene (ending) wanted to be changed by the network, but everyone stuck to their guns (so to speak) and it was Paget at the end with A.J.; it was important to have JJ & Emily together at the end per Paget. To understand how hard actors work on series, Paget & Timothy (Doyle) worked from 10AM to 2AM doing their scene.
I am curious ( and I apologize if its been mentioned earlier in post) but does Hotch really know Emily is dead or does it appear that he may suspect something based on JJ's reaction (or lack of a strong one) and his look at her during the funeral. I know at the end she said "we did the best we could," but I guess they can play it anyway they choose. Maybe some clarity at seasons end. I just see him figuring it out overtime versus knowing for sure right of the bat....
Also, in an earlier post someone mentioned the Idiots book on "Emily's shelf...it was an Idiots on Baseball book. I don't recall any reference to Baseball in episodes, just Morgan's reference to playing strong safety (football) and she didn't know what that was. Maybe an inside joke?
Sorry for rambling...
Deb
I was wondering about that too. I couldn't find any indication that he for sure knew prentiss is alive. the silent scene made me think that he did but now that i know what was said it seems like he doesn't. maybe they'll address it in the future?
I hope Hotch doesn't know. It would be a terrible thing for him to have to keep under wraps. Since JJ is not there, the fact that she knows won't factor in as much, but Hotch knowing will.
dcardi20, did she say anything with regard to the last scene taking place in Paris? Was there any significane to that location?
I really dont get why some people see promise in Seaver becuase of the last few weeks. She hasnt done anything that truly contributes! I was starting to change my mind about her in Today I do but then she went on about the cutting being about having no control.WRONG! cutting is about control and while she was explaining it, she couldn't keep her voice from cracking, now could she? In the past weeks, she is getting more unbearable to watch onscreen. I tried to be indifferent but...no can do.
Seeing JJ and Seaver in the same scenes in Lauren only highlighted how vital and still needed JJ was, and how much stronger, better and more interesting AJ's acting was compared to RN, but then again, everyone's acting is amazing on CM except for RN.
Also, I just watched Reckoner again from the fifth season. Ashley Seaver's blood splatter scene was reminiscent of J being splattered with blood in the end of Reckoner. But instead of freezing and needing Rossi to physically grab her by the head and pull her down, JJ got over her one second of panic and told everyone to get down while remaining calm and pulling out her gun, looking for the shooter. Ok, Seaver doesnt have a gun, but...she should've still ducked.
Seaver does not work!
Also, how did they want to change the ending of Lauren?
the ending scene withh JJ meeting Emily in France was my second fave scene after Emily throwing the flash grenade and shooting up with the rifle and my thrid fave scene of the ep is JJ and Spence's hug. Fourth fave was Emily beating up Doyle until she got staked.
Nancy said :
dcardi20, did she say anything with regard to the last scene taking place in Paris? Was there any significane to that location?
Nancy, no she didn't mention anthing about the location, just about how importnat it was for her (and to the fans) to have them together - a "hug" of sorts (even though it wasn't a physical hug). I guess fans can speculate about the location. I know "Emily" talked about her Grandfather living on the mountain in France, living off the land...so maybe sentimental for her..(I'm all guessing of course in my fantasy world).
Paget didn't go into detail about the network ending change or what "they" wanted - just that they didn't want what was written.
Deb
Thanks for the reply dcardi20!
rewatching Cold Comfort of season 4. Emily says she wants to be cremated. That didnt happen thankfully, otherwise the ending would be less open ended!
She looks so pretty though! Emily was so funny at the beginning of the episode!
Initially AJ/JJ was not in the last scene but it did take place in Paris.
wait so who was supposed to be in the scene with emily/paget?
JJ and Seaver in the same scene was awkward in last ep. Get rid of Seaver. Bring back JJ.
Optika i really don't get why you want to convince us who like seaver to get why you don't like her.
Because we don't get it. We see that she can become a great addition to the team.
Besides she haven'ty even been developed yet she is still very new on the show.
And it was only last weeks episode she finaly stepped into gear.
So we don't get why you are so against her when she haven't even been developed yet.
are you kidding. there was nothing awkward about that at all. They played their characters
You only find it awkward because you think what went on behind the scenes
It really was strange to see AJ and RN in the same scene, or rather JJ and Seaver. Emily and JJ have a great contrast, visually and emotionally and they have a great commonality as well. The team doesnt need anyone learning the ropes of profiling with someone like Ashley who doesnt have an actual function, doesnt know anything and is plain boring and annoying and badly written. JJ as the team liason was a great character to have on the show as someone who is not a profiler or techie and she learnined alot about profiling along the way. Plus, JJ was essential to the team.
Emily and JJ both need to come back, or at least one of them. Seaver doesnt fill the void, she tortures the sudience with her redundancy. Please kill her off.
Paget is such a brilliant actress! She had such a great blend of empathy, sympathy and sarcasm and compassion, plus she was intelligent and witty. She was a rare television actress becuase she made you feel with her and with the storyline, even if its a badly wirtten episode. She is brilliant and she owns the screen!
The same can be said about AJ as Jj, but in different terms.
Dude, it will not play well if they are on the same team. You could like her, but trust me, it will not play well. For better or worse, the JJ look alike title is going to stick with that character. It is here now and JJ is not on the show, if JJ were on the show with her as a team member, it would be relentless.
reidforever,
I was pointing out that I dont understand becuase to me and to many others who have posted there is nothing interesting about her. I plan to be a writer and major in English, plus I read a lot and have seen episdoes of CM multiple times. She doesnt fit at all. SHe has nothing to contribute and she cant be developed as a character successfully becuase her first few episodes cancel that out and several instances in her recent episodes. Her presence is taking away from other characters and she adds nothing to the show. She is just a realistic and horribly written and played character. Too derivative and...if you like her, fine, I tried to like her. I gave her four chances and am now stuck with her for the rest of the season for her to play out. She wont work for the show.
are you kidding and reidforever,
I believe it was wierd for the fans to finally see them onscreen together, not becuase of the actual context of the scene. Its just weird becuase they are both blonde and blue eyed and also, sidenote, its a bit strange seeing Rossi acting fatherly towards Seaver when he was fatherly but not overtly so towards JJ and Emily. Its like they are transferring that particular aspect to Seaver and its just awkward. Seaver is a bad character for the show, for any show with the way she's written. Nothing good about her.
Speaking of redundancy....Optika we have heard your anti-Seaver refrain again and again. Nothing new is being said here. Don't you think it's time to give it a rest?
I know it's hard to believe that there is more than one person out there with opinions different than yours, but that doesn't mean it is one person masquerading as different people.
PLEASE GO BACK TO TALKING ABOUT THE EPISODE. THANKS!
anonymous,
whoever you are. Own up to a name please and as for me being redundant, what about everyone else? Seaver talk is littering all forums so clearly,whatever else that says, at the least it has a high GET SEAVER OFF THE SHOW vibe to it.
Anyway, she is never going to be a true cm family member. On to something else, did anyone see Bringing Ashley Home? I've heard mixed reviews but still want to see it. Aj is agrea actress no matter what she does and she tweeted that she loved this rolse, plus its based on a true story. I really hope to see her back on tv again. hopefully on CM.
And I agree that people are using different names to say the same thing. I think Ben and Mikey are the sameperson actually. Either that or brothers who have nothing more to say than "that is YOUR opinion".
I think the fact that Hotch called in JJ maybe a sign that maybe he knew it would have to get down to getting Prentiss out of the country; Witness Proctection or something like that. I think he would know that JJ possibly had the type of connections to make that happen.
I don't know how this is all going to play out though because it is something that I don't think Rossi, Morgan, Garcia or Reid will get over being that they were all like a family for so many years.
sorry Criminal Minds Fan
i think this episode was great but not as promising as it appeared. I wish that Emily wasnt tiesd to a chair for the majority of it. But MGG did a great job of directing, especially whenever Emily and Aj were on scene. No bad angles, no unflattering angles for anyone and he handled the action greatly.
I hope to see some more spy and espionage stuff every once in a while though. If done right, it can be very intersting.
I have a question...did they actually show the team figuring out that emily was protecting declan? they just showed reid, garcia, and morgan noticing that it was emily's fingernails, right? just trying to make sure i didn't miss anything.
I had thought they might have discovered the Declan is still alive (though much older now).
You know the one thing that has been bugging me about this episode--where did Doyle go? One minute he's standing over an impaled Prentiss, but the next minute, when Morgan gets to Prentiss, the Irish man's gone. Where and how did he Disapperate (sorry, Harry Potter joke)? He's not mentioned for the rest of the episode, whether he's been caught or not.
That tells me something--did Doyle escape, and if he did, will he be brought back in the future? I don't know. What do you think?
haha i actually thoroughly enjoyed that harry potter joke...but ya i was wondering the same thing. i guess when he heard the gun shots he ran...which i don't understand how he made it out of a building being swarmed by the fbi. but unless paget/emily comes back i don't see them going to much into the doyle part of the story. i'd like to see it addressed but it just seems doubtful. this episode was a tad bit choppy but overall i loved it! i think paget did a fantastic job. and MGG as well. i hope he directs more episodes in the future.
Declan doesn't know that Doyle is his father, right?
Declan knows that Doyle is his dad. There's a scene in "Lauren" in which Emily says to him, "go to your father." So he knows.
Optika, I'm planning to major in English too! My English majors start this June and I'm psyched for it :)
I agree MGG did a great job directing this eppy. I think the script could have been better but he did a fab job with what he got. I still think "Mosley Lane" was better, it's my all time favourite CM episode.
JJ's entry scene was done very
well. As soon as we saw her, my heart did a little flutter and I was like yay! JJ's back. She was awesome. I'm hoping to see AJ back on my TV screen too. She's gorgeous and supremely talented. Too bad the people at CBS didn't appreciate her, I hope someone does and gives her a show. I'll definitely watch it.
I do agree with the people who think Seaver and JJ look alike. That Paris scene in "Lauren" was the best scene. But when JJ was walking towards Emily's table, at first glance I thought it was Seaver, and my blood boiled and I thought I was seeing things. When she came closer I realized it was JJ and breathed a sigh of relief.
So yeah I don't think having JJ and Seaver on the same team will work as they are splitting images of each other.
OK, I"ve got one more thing to say about the developing character of Ashley in this episode -- not a repetition -- and then I've run out of things to say on the subject.
If, as I suggested earlier, it is significant that Seaver's sense of contact with the Doyle profile came via a thought about her imprisoned father (Doyle wants revenge against the woman who took away his liberty: 'And I can understand that'), not only does this go some way to explain Rossi's particular interest in her character/past/state of mind, but it also explains why she herself might feel a reluctance to really engage in a profile. Do you see what I'm getting at? Her energy is coming from an area that must be troubling for her.
The other little thing I wanted to add is about Rachel Nichols rather than the character. Rossi is 'the beautiful Rossi', that's for sure, but he's not pretty. Nichols is very pretty. It was intriguing to see on her face the Nichols' version of the Mantegna stare. There was a high degree of mirroring between Nichols and JM in that scene -- and that is both fine strong work from them both and revealing of what's going on at the physiological/psychological levels for the two characters.
Now I have done.
I will try to say only welcome things on this forum for my next three posts! It won't last cos I'm afraid I am a bit mischievous but I'm calling armistice.
UK viewer
PS -- an important PS. I just read back through the posts above and want to say again to Belinda if you're reading -- I honestly didn't feel you were being dismissive or unfair in any way in our earlier exchange. We were getting on all right, I thought! Not to worry
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