Criminal Minds spoiler thread for "With Friends Like These..." starring Joe Mantegna, Thomas Gibson, Shemar Moore, Matthew Gray Gubler and Kirsten Vangsness.
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507 comments:
1 – 200 of 507 Newer› Newest»considering they will be dealing with an illness so near to reid's fear (relating to his headaches etc) I am wondering if this will be the culmination of reid's "secret" arc. Or perhaps just the peak.
Can't wait to see how the team coups without Emily.
This isn't about the episode, but who voted yes for the polls? Come on! We can't lose another beloved character!! Neither Thomas Gibson nor Shemar Moore should leave the show. It's bad enough that AJ and Paget left, come on now!!
Will be interested if there is a tie- in to what Reid is currently going through and the apparent illness of the unsub. Maybe it might deepen his fears, although, I'm thinking that there won't be much time spent on that being that they have to get to the unsub story which seems to be the main focus.
acriminalmind, has there been anymore word on the contracts for Gibson and Moore? If they lose anymore people, I think it will be a wrap for this show.
I am sick about losing AJ and Paget. I'm thinking this will be my last season watching Criminal Minds.
Take a look at the press release for "Hanley Waters" posted here; that is the official press release for CBS and RN is listed. Would be helpful if people could distinguish between the two before posting such questions.
There are more people than Rachel Nichols on the show, thank the good Lord above.
Whether she is listed here or not doesn't matter. Also, like Mirtha said, digging a little before jumping to ask would have shown that one is an official press release, the other not.
Going to be super weird and difficult not having Paget on the show. Don't know how many episodes I will be able to watch without her; she brought something unique and special to the show. I can't believe the crazy and sexist decision making at CBS.
I'm curious to see if there is any follow up with Hotch possibly knowing that Prentiss is alive. I know there was a little debate as to whether Hotch knows. I think he knows. Sadly, I don't believe Paget will return to the show, so any further follow up will have to be done without her on the show.
I too want to say that the sexist decision making at CBS is incredible considering that the President of Entertainment is a woman, Nina Tassler. I'll finishing watching until the end of this season but if things don't drastically change back to the way the show used to be, then this will be my final season watching Criminal Minds.
I hope the MGG radio interview comes to light and that AJ returns to the show. I doubt Paget will return, but would be great if she did. If she doesn't, I hope the network has enough sense to write in a female character that is representative of the BAU and the strength of women.
Can I just say -- I totally love this picture of Reid. Thank you!
If you take Spencer away, I am done.
MGG will be there for season 7, so will KV and JM. As for TG and SM, that is still up in the air and I'm personally hoping (praying) that RN doesn't return for season 7 and that maybe AJ will come back. PB, would love to see her return, but I think her pilot will probably get picked up. We'll all find out May 25th when NBC says what their Fall lineup will be.
Does anyone know if that will be announced in the am or pm? I think someone said that PB has to let CBS know by May 28th if she is returning to CM. But I think that even if her pilot doesn't get picked up, she is not coming back to CM :( Thanks a lot CBS and CM, ARGH!
I'm excited to be seeing a new Criminal Minds episode after two weeks. The unsub/subject matter would seem like a perfect fit to address Reid's ongoing headaches and his probable fear it is schizophrenia. It would feel weird to me if the episode DIDN'T address it in some way. I too am very curious what the show/team will be like in the wake of Emily's "death."
Thank God! Thank you Criminal Minds Fan! A place to talk! Just when I thought I would go thru withdrawal...I'm with you, Lin from Ohio, that picture of MGG in one of my very faves, if not the most fave: he looks older, less baby-faced, and so handsome. But somehow, more confident, mature...maybe it is his recent directing experience?! Whatever, I want it to stay up there a LONG time for us to admire.
The write-up in the cable guide mentions how the team copes with the loss of Prentiss NEXT wk 4/06) but not this wk. Any idea why? And the TV Guide for next week that arrived today has a kudo to CM in the "Cheers & Jeers" section: "Cheers to Criminal Minds for giving Paget Brewster a fine farewell. Dispensing with its psycho-of-the-week format, CBS' hit delved into Prentiss' past undercover work in the IRA and left the door open for a welcome return to the scene of the crime."
I love it! Features a pic of Paget with the cable kniw V-neck she wore in a flashback of one the final epis about her past life.
Love that they are giving credence to the poss that she will return and that it is written somewhere as bold as the TV Guide. Gives me hope.
Let us think positive about such things and talk about the upcoming epi (s) the team dealing with their loss, being short-staffed, etc. and pls, no whining, ranting or cranking about you know what - we are so done with that.
Thanking you in advance for more enjoyable convos!
Agreed on all points gubegirl!!! Is that a recent issue of TV Guide or is that something we can find online?
i am looking forward to this episode seems from the previews to be a very good one.
Tia how can you wish for someone that seems to be such a lovely person to lose her job. That is simply not a cool thing to do.
sameera: this was the hard copy rec'd in today's mail for w/e 4/4-4/10. Last mo. I cited another such write-up before it was on-line - if it ever was at all. But that is it, word for word. I think still avail at the groc store ckout!
I am also excited because this wk's epi takes place in San Diego - where I live and am eager to see if there's anything familiar. A couple seasons back they had the epi about the fa-daughter in the witness protection program took lace in San Diego county, a city named Chula Vista and it looked familiar and they named local streets, etc. Kinda cool.
Lo-Fi is on ion tonite - lovin' it! JJ is announcing her pregnancy to Hotch and Prentiss...ah-h-h...
Carlos, pls try and locate Ben, Mikey and Kenneth: they are hard at work building a fan club where you can address such issues and invest your energies. We are CM Fanatics and are using this thread to talk about the show. Thanks.
Respectfully,
anonymous 44
@Vicky. So why aren't you telling that to Tia also?
PLEASE USE THIS THREAD FOR DISCUSSION OF THE EPISODE OR THE SHOW IN GENERAL AND PLEASE BE RESPECTFUL TO EACH OTHER AND KIND.
You're right,Carlos, it would be realy nice if all these posts were about the show. But at least Tia spoke of other issues as well. Let's just all make every attempt to be respectful to ea other, the show and its future. Don't you like to discuss other material as well? I would love to hear what you think about MGG's poss illness, PB's and AJ' poss return, how the team is missing them and wil express it, etc. It is not my place to shut anyone down, but unfortunately the administrator has had to do that in prev threads where all the negativity has gotten out of hand sn I would really like us all to act like adults,to mind our manners and use this forum to the purpose it is intended. I know this cn be done because it has in the past and I found it to be very enjoyable. anonymous 44
anonymous44 I love you.
I also love Criminal Minds.
Agreed. Lets all discuss the episodes
Reids ilness. Really hope its not serious. Hope he can be treated. But what if it is cancer and he has to go through treatments and such. If it is i have no doubt he will be cured. But the show would become a little different and Matthew is gonna play the role different really curious how this goes.
Whoops.. just logged back on. Sorry, I was trying to address the post that someone put about if Reid was gone they'd be done with the show. I just wanted them to know that MGG's contract was not up yet (up next season). Also, just shared my feelings about what I would like to see season 7 being wherre the show is now. It is not a personal thing about someone losing their job. I don't know the person personally just what I've seen character wise on the show and I personally feel it is not a fit for the show, not good for the show moving forward. I always put what I feel is best for the show as a whole first, not any one individual person. But enough of that.
I think it would be such a missed opportunity if Reid's experience with (through his mom) and fear of becoming schizophrenic is not in some way touched upon in this episode. I know that it can't be the focus of the episode but at least some sort of segway for possible future episodes. If Reid's headaches are being caused by stress and maybe intensified by a combination of his fear of becoming schizophrenic, then I'm thinking how could this not be a some sort of segway as he believes Prentiss is dead and the unsub has schizophrenia. However, it seems like there will be a lot of different characters to focus on that are related to the unsub so I don't know how much time will be focused to that connection. Also, Prentiss will e gone, so that is another thing that will, I hope, be addressed on some level. I wonder if Reid will play a big role in apprehending this unsub. I imagine that it will be tough to get through to the unsub because of his mental state.
I also want to see what Hotch's reaction will be when addressing the Prentiss being gone issue. I fall on the side of him knowing. That is an awfully big thing to keep hidden and I so wish that it were written in a way that he knew about it. Since the JJ character is no longer on the show (but I hope that AJ can become a series regular again) her knowing doesn't disrupt anything now. Of course, if she came back to be a part of the team (oh please, I hope she does) then that is going to be tough, especially between her and Reid. I would have preferred that it were written a different way but maybe there was a reason that it wasn't. I hope there is and that it is a good one.
I don't think that Reid could have cancer (which would be what? a brain tumor?) which started as horrific headaches and then have seemed to have subsided for some time (weeks? months?) because brain tumors generally grow, cause increasing pressure (when there is no treatment which he told Prentiss they did not even know the cause, thus, I doubt any treatment so I doubt he would have been able to work. I still think that they are dangling the schizoid theory but am hoping there will be some other source which is finally determined and of course, stress will exacerbate it and already has. And will cause it to rear its ugly head again soon, at the stress of losing Prentiss just a it did after he lost JJ. But maybe they will play it for all its worth, lots of Reid-and-Reid-fans angst - always makes for good
"copy." Then there is always that little bit of a stomach thing - taking antacids, "loves dairy" feels sick on the plane: does that tie in, or coincidence and they are just messing with us? Msybe something MGG has in real life like his coffee addiction and his acid stomach from excessive coffee is what the antacid deal is. Hmmm. Can hardly wait to find out!
What do you think?
My Source is on direct orders to provide the goods by Thursday afternoon (BST) as there's nothing good on TV on this side of the Pond on Thursday night, other than Crimewatch.
Apart from hoping for a well-written episode with a gripping storyline, I'm looking forward (hoping?!) to see how the team deal with Prentiss' "death" - both as a whole (e.g. will it affect their focus on the case?) and as individuals.
I assume Hotch knows she's alive, which if that's the case could lead to feelings of guilt that he's keeping something from the team AND feels he should have noticed something was going on with Prentiss earlier.
Naturally I'm interested (read "chewing the walls") to see how what's happened with Prentiss affects Reid. They always seemed to have this (purely platonic) bond and he confided in her about his headaches. These things, coupled with the schizophrenia theme of the episode, have the potential for "interesting viewing".
Sorry if anything doesn't make sense here - it's obscenely early and I'm off to work shortly!
Pour yourself a cuppa joe into travel mug (forget the tea! and grab a scone and you're out the door, Blimey Limey! Have a great day, hope your source comes thru for you(but you can always count on us!) Talk to you later, GF!
I hope they don't go down the schziophrenia route with Reid. I think that not only would that be so obvious, but what a waste for that character. It is one thing to have demons about becoming mentally ill, quite another to then turn out to be mentally ill. I think the headaches are more job and stress related.
Tia said...
I think it would be such a missed opportunity if Reid's experience with (through his mom) and fear of becoming schizophrenic is not in some way touched upon in this episode.
Eh, they cut all the scenes directly connecting Reid with Sammy in "Coda" so I'm not holding out much hope here. They've been doing a ton of fake-outs for Reid this season, what with "Reflection of Desire" (schizophrenia); "The Thirteenth Step" (drug use); and "Coda" (ASD).
Also, I think MGG isn't really going to be in the episode a lot. He just got off producing "Lauren" and IIRC, they usually give him a lighter load in the pre- and post-episodes.
I'm doubting that Reid's headaches would be something like cancer. From the way he spoke to Emily it sounds like he's seen more than one doctor and he did have an MRI. A tumor would likely have shown up and he would have likely had some evidence in his bloodwork, like an elevated CEA.
Simon Mirren said it had something to do with his genetic past and one's mind would automatically jump to schizophrenia, but if that were the case, Reid would no longer be able to be an agent so I don't think it can be that, and everyone knows about his mother's schizophrenia and it's something that he's almost been expecting for years so that wouldn't be much of a big surprise secret. I think perhaps it's something else familial that maybe Reid's not aware of. How good a medical history does he have on his father, I wonder?
I'm sure Reid dealing with an unsub with the disease he so fears will be hard for him.
It will be interesting, and disheartening to see the team without Prentiss.
Reid: could just be complex migraine syndrome. Migraines can be pretty darn inventive and scary with their roving neurological symptoms. Plus there is a genetic component. You can lose memory, speech, mental coherence, body recognition etc along with the usual raft of optical and auditory impairments during aura. Some of this stuff is interpretable as hallucinatory. Famously, Hildgegaard von Bingen thought she was seeing angels. And the state can go on and on and on with shifting symptoms over a long period. Pretty miserable.
This to me would be a more interesting play out for Reid than schizophrenia. The character gets to fear schizophrenia, but without the whole gloomy prognosis that would have long-term plot consequences.
UK viewer
Thank God! Thank you Criminal Minds Fan! A place to talk! Just when I thought I would go thru withdrawal
There's a forum connected to this blog where people can talk 24/7 about anything they want. I've often wondered why you guys never use it.
I think this one is enough for me. Then when I max out from too many digressing to unpleasant subjects, I just stay away and watch more re-runs or read a magazine. But a couple weeks without talking to others that love what I love....well, that was tough.
anonymous 44
Anonymous 44, I'm with you on that. Although, I did find it a bit refreshing not to have this closed down a bit because of a certain subject matter. I hope that the time away gave people time to pause and reflect about the meaning of opinions and how each one of us is entitled to them regardless of whether they mix with what another person or persons think. Most importantly, I hope that people have reflected about the importance of respect in all things, oh do I hope that is the case.
I am sort of ambivalent about this episode tonight as Prentiss (Paget) will not be there. I am heartbroken and angry about that :( I am going to try and hang on until the end of the season, let's see. Like others, I hope that in some way tonight's episodes links in with Reid's headaches, although, I think Blue Sunflower touched on how that may be a futile considering all of the other times the ball was dropped with that story.
I don't really get where they are trying to go with this story line. I'd hate to think that this will be the carrot they will constantly dangle in front of the audience to have them keep tuning in. That would really anger me and would almost assuredly make me stop watching the show as I don't appreciate those types of cheap tactics. However, I am getting ahead of myself and I am going to give them the benefit of the doubt for now in believing that this is not what they are doing with that story line. Also, I am curious to see how Hotch deals with his knowledge that Prentiss is still alive, I think he knows too.
I cant wait for tonight! I am still reeling from last week. The show will not be the same without Emily or JJ and it wont get any better without them. And Hotch needs his role back!
MGG is adorable, no question or debate about it. I love him like everyone else with good taste!
Excited for tonight's show.
Btw, I was finally able to watch AJ in Bringing Ashley Home. I loved it! The story was abit slow but AJ's brilliant performance was breathtaking, heartbreaking and oscar worthy!
Has anyone else noticed how in the diversity of roles AJ has had, she has done a lot of stuff that kind of spreads a social message or a PSA type of vibe? FOr instance, Bringing Ashley Home, Criminal Minds especially episodes Legace from season 2 and Risky Business from season 5, Higher Ground, even Misconceptions in a way.
Hoping for a Hotch centric ep tonight. There hasnt really been one this season.
@ Gubegirl. It takes three cuppas (tea) before I can even string a sentence together in the morning, so that post didn't turn out too badly! My Source always delivers, btw (they wouldn't dare not...).
I think the writers et al. have been trying to drop in red herrings about Reid's secret for most of the season. First it seemed like he had gastric problems, which can be caused by stress and excessive caffeine consumption. Then the headaches started, which again can be caused by stress. However, by dropping in cases which feature autism and schizophrenia we're going to go "Oooooh, could that be it?". Hopefully it'll be cleared up soon so we can find out the remaining secrets. Hotch's is next on my wish list.
Like it's already been said, they'd better not keep it dangling like the proverbial carrot to keep us tuning in regardless (which, I confess, I probably would). That would be really cheap. CM is better than that.
I'm now avoiding this thread for ~24 hours until I've seen the episode. Hope you all enjoy it...
I'll be depending on your comments - I'm not watching until we see what happens for Season 7 with the cast (Paget / AJ.... and getting rid of Seaver)
I can't wait for Criminal Minds tonight! Love MGG and i have been a fan of criminal minds for like forever! I hope Reid is okay, but i wanna see how they're gonna bring in the headache storyline. Please let it be tonight, can't wait :D
I don't think I saw anything about the headache story line being officially in this episode. Right now, I think it is just people assuming that it will be part of the episode. However, since I will not be watching, please keep up the good work with detailing the episode peeps! I know that I am not going to be able to make it through the episode being that the team is what it is now, but if there is significant Reid headache story line placed in the episode based on what I see people comment on here I will download the episode when it becomes available on iTunes. Thanks :)
Sorry, but I have to comment on the article that was just posted on the blog. I read the article prior to it being posted on the blog. I want to know exactly what in the hell is CBS' issue with Criminal Minds. It has never fully supported this show, it takes away some of the show's strongest writers, takes away AJ, pushes out Paget, and leaves us with a joke of a replacement for these women characters. Now, Thomas Gibson is saying that he is still in talks and "hopes" to be back on the show next season. What the hell! This show has completely derailed thanks to CBS' insane decision making. I just don't get any of this craziness.
If Gibson's talks aren't shored up, I don't even want to know where Moore may be in his talks.
This is truly ridiculous!!!!
Lydia why do you see the need to diss mrs. Nichols.
There is no need for that. When there is infact people that also like her addition.
Granted it sucks that AJ and Paget is gone, but it is not her fault. I don't like what this blog has come to. It is just wrong.
This is for discussing the episodes
Everyone finding this thread needs to go to the TG interview with EW at the beginning of this blog and read not just the excerpt but actually TYPE in the address and read both articles: the first on TG and the 2nd on Paget. I am hanging on to TG's words that they "are ready for the next transition and that the next transition could be the re-addition" of former cast members. I don't want to be naive but I really don't think even he knows much more than his is saying but at least IT SOUNDS like he hoping for that, so I say, so should we!
Verbalizing the necessity of changing locations for occas shoots sounds like a positive thing, too, altho' that could mean more $. Something to explore which would freshen up the job for the on-going cast members who have come to know all of L.A. County better than they prob'ly ever wanted to...
I'm not going to say more at this point because I need to digest this; I am not surprised but it leaves me feeling unsettled.
How 'bout the rest of you?
First of all I absolutely LOVE that pic of Reid. GUH....just flipping gorgeous.
I am really looking forward to this episode. MGG in one of his Lauren interviews said Reid's headache storyline would be touched upon in this episode plus the episode appears to be dealing with a schizophrenic unsub which, surely, has to lead to some connection with Reid's fears of developing schizophrenia. Then there's Emily's 'death'. The potential for Reid angst is awesome and, as a fan of Reid!Angst, it has me positively giddy with anticipation. Hopefully I won't end up disapointed.
Plus I am really looking forward to seeing how Prentiss's 'death' has affected everyone. I'm going to miss Paget/Emily so much though, just like I still miss AJ/JJ. I'd dearly love to see both Emily and JJ back in the BAU next season.
Really looking forward to this episode its gonna be interesting seeing the team without Prentiss. I welcome Rachel Nichols its gonna be interesting to see her on CM once she is put really into the teams dynamic.
gubegirl, I don't really know what to make of any of this, excpet that these contract talks have been going on for quite some time now and from the sound of it, there is no sort of resolution. My biggest concern is that TG's family lives in Texas. He travels out there every weekend to see them, basically, he sees them only on the weekends. At this point, he may be ready to step away from CM if CBS isn't willing to give hime whatever it is that he is asking for because the truth is if he doesn't get what he is asking for now he will never get it. It sounds like he definitely doesn't want to leave CM, but CBS needs to give him the respect that comes with being a lead in a show, in other words $$$$ Will CBS do this? I hope so, but honestly, I would put nothing past CBS, including allowing something as stupid as allowing TG and/or SM to walk away from CM. Examining the crappy decisions that they have made concerning the show thus far, well, nothing would surprise me.
CBS has made a killing off of this show in syndication, just like they did with other CBS shows, so, losing this show may not be that great of a loss to the network in the grand scheme of things. Granted, their spin-off project hasn't worked to their satisifaction/expectations (I hope that spin-off explodes into a ball of flames) so they may want to hold on to CM a bit longer. As for the cast re-additions, I hope that this is more than just wishful "saying" on his part and that he truly knows something about a deal maybe being struck for AJ to come back, and maybe Paget. How wonderful would it be to start next season with the BAU team the way it was, the way it should have been kept.
The traveling to other locations, that is very expensive and if they were crying broke when they fired AJ and reduced Paget's appearances, I doubt that they will be taking the show on the road unless they find cheaper costing replacements for TG and/or SM if they leave the show like they didwhen they fired AJ and pushed out PB.
I think you all should be relieved, not worried by TG's comments. CM wants TG, and now we know TG wants CM, so really it's just a matter of hashing out the details. I have NEVER seen a contract fail for want of hashing the details. It will happen.
he ONLY read five books last week??? ONLY five??? How many does he normally read in one week? I'm lucky with school and work to get one read in a week!
so does that conversation that rossi and hotch had at the start saying they need someone with more experience, meaning we are getting someone else new? Unless Prentiss comes back from being "dead"? I mean they can bring back JJ, but JJ isn't a profiler and laready stated she didn't want to be one one before
Bring back JJ and Prentiss!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sorry, but the new character has the personality of a sponge cake.. Please bring back JJ and Prentiss. Also, some of the old writers please. I love CM, but c'mon!
Not that I am totally ready to get "spoiler'd" OTOH, YES, I am!
I'm leaving for yoga soon and will come streaking in at 9:05, backpedaling my DVR as fast as it can go...damn, damn, hecky darn I do hate to miss even a minute...it is so hard to catch up!
Anyway, is NO ONE watching this epi? I am on the west coast and you guys on the east coast should be almost done! Have you not found this thread to post on yet? Is the epi so thrilling you cannot stop long enuf to post? (y'all have never have done that before...) or are you all suffering a major power outage?
I am Bummed! I wanted some juicy stuff to get me thru my final meditation which I am certain will include envisioning that oh-so-fine face of MGG's at the top of this thread. (How can you slow down your breathing while imagining that, I ask you Reid luv'rs???)
I will ck ONE MORE TIME at 7:10 before I run out the door: write fast!
Soooo... that ending was oddly vague. Clearly, we will be seeing this character again and it's looking like he'll be going after Reid. (May I add that "Stab me in the neck" bit was delightfully creepy and I definitely saw more MGG than Reid in it.) It certainly adds a new level to the Reid schizo storyline, but seeing as how they already brought up the heachaches and all that, it would seem to be a bit much to add a person targeting him, even if the schizophenia was a common factor.
Of course, I could be reading too much into the ending, but that was really interesting.
Still, I was expecting the ending to involve Reid (and of course got Good Two-Shoes instead, surprise, surprise) so the fact that it shoes him sleeping then cut to the unsub, to me, implies that Reid isn't schizo, but he will have this schizophrenic guy trying to kill him.
Okay, apart from those happy thoughts, it was interesting. Someone a while back mentioned the transition into letting the audience know who the unsubs are throughout the episode instead of the trying to find who it is and that certainly has been the case recently. I'm not entirely sure if I love it, but honestly a little mixing it up would be nice. I guess it does set CM apart from the other crime dramas (CSI, NCIS...) so that works.
About Prentiss: Well, there was some emotions, but not a whole lot. It didn't take away from me but I honestly didn't see this episode as the first post-Prentiss episode. I mean, for goodness sake the biggest thing was Garcia in the beginning and that quickly moved right into, you guessed it, Miss Perfect!!! Yaaaaaay... :/ Ugh, I just need to get over her already but they certainly make it hard.
Anyway, overall a nice little episode that definitely could lead into some pretty dramatic things. We shall see...
It's been what, like 7 episodes already. There is no Prentiss in this episode so I don't want to hear "the give Seaver a chance" garbage. Bottom line, this character is boring, doesn't fit, and the actress can't act, at least not half as well as the others. CBS, what have you done here? Plus, don't get me going on Morgan's line to Garcia about Prentiss hoping that they would accept Seaver. Really, seriously, CBS and CM. You are so desperate to push this character that you have to insert such a blatant line like that. I hope that Hotch saying that they need an experienced profiler means that this Seaver character will be unloaded after this season or will you pull 25 to life stunt where Hotch approves of her being there over e-mail. Hotch said it.. they need an experienced profiler, straight from the Unit Chief's mouth.
The only things I liked about this episode were the Reid and Morgan moments. I was glad to see that come back after so long. It is good that Reid opened up to Morgan and I hope Morgan will continue to be there for Reid. Reid is going to need all of the support that he can get and I think this will be a good opportunity for him and Morgan to reconnect. I have really missed that between those two. Garcia looking at Prentiss' picture broke my heart as well as no longer seeing Prentiss in the opening credits.
Damn CBS, you really screwed up here with AJ, Paget and the writing.
heyya,
wanted to congratualte you on your english major and all!
This episode was ok. Loved Hotch's first scene, first true indication that he doesnt really want Seaver on the team and him basically getting back to his true character. More of Hotch tonight but still not enough.
More continuity with Reid's headaches stryline, really wondering whats in store for him. Only five books? If only I could get through 5 books in one week. He is something to aspire to, our lovely Dr. Reid!
The "stab me in the neck and it'll all go away" scene was scary though. Thankfully Hotch shot him before the unsub could harm Reid.
The show is even more off without Emily on it and its formula is going to hell! Please writers fix it!
No ripoffs, no contrived plotlines. Tonight still felt like a movie ripoff.
Also, Seaver is not welcome. What the hell is up with her giving Hotch an order, "WE need to find...". I wish they filmed TG's face because I would have loved to see his expression.
EMily and JJ better comeback. I havent heard anything about AJ's potential projects or if she has any pilots but "fingers crossed".
Seaver is just a pretty face and even the writers have voiced it, whether it was intentional or not. It showed in the first episode when Garcia said Reid thinks she's pretty, even in Lauren she is treated like a piece of ass by Fahey.
its never been this outrageously obvious that Seaver was just a pretty blonde eye candy showpiece. JJ and Emily were not just centrefolds for the show. She doesnt fit. Its not just her chemistry with the rest of the cast, her acting style doesnt mesh with the others acting styles and characterizations either. And she's broken beyond fixing so ther's really no point. Her amount of screentime was annoying.
please bring JJ and Emil and Hotch back fulltime!
Best of luck to TG becuase her is why I continue to watch!
Ely said...
Sorry, but the new character has the personality of a sponge cake..
Yeah, and now she's got a gun!!
Well Reid has shared his bad news about his headaches, loss of concentration, and the most significant of all, that he only read five books last week, with Morgan. That made me giggle. How Reid to include that as a symptom!
I hope Hotch's conversation with Rossi means we are going to get someone with some sense joining the team although I wish it was JJ, even though she's not a profiler, I don't think Seaver has taken the courses either, that's likely something you do after becoming an agent, but they seem to have no qualms about her jumping right in. It'll never make sense to me.
Of course it'll never make sense to me why they got rid of two such wonderful characters in the first place.
I thought the case was really interesting and there was a good deal of profiling. Although the case was violent they didn't show all the gory details. Another stunning performance by Matthew tonight. Morgan was back to the Morgan I love and Shemar was terrific. Like everyone, I would love to see more Hotch. It feels like both Hotch and Reid are wound so tight it is a toss up who blows first. For me, the tension is really building and I love that.
Great episode. More and more of the episodes this season feel like a return to the original series that we all love so much.
It's great to see Reid doing more now too.
I terribly missed Emily...the show isn't the same without her.
I'm just going to get this out first off..I ADORE this new pic of MGG! So adult not kiddie. Lovely ;) I really liked this show. The script did a great job entwining Reid's fear of mental illness with the Unsubs. I'll tell you, I made a little gasp when the unsub thought Reid said to stab him in the head and attacked. I appreciate that it was Morgan now who sees a different and more pensive Reid. We're seeing that bond which was prevalent in earlier seasons. Our writers are listening to us and I for one appreciate it. So nice to be able to chat without dodging negative bullets that inundated this site before. Hello everyone!
Reid was not saying "stab me in the neck" The unsub was hallucinating that part.
Carlos.. she can't act and is playing the most awesomely horrible character ever!! I would rather watch a slug crawl on the floor than watch this Seaver character. Personally, I mentioned AJ and Paget because those women can act, their characters fit and they played them well.
sorry criminal minds, I just couldn't go through with it, No Paget, no show for me...the opening, and the opening credits hurt without Paget...the show without Emily, not as good.
I want to be able to support the show I loved, but its just not the same
Sorry Coadygirl, I didn't see your comment before I commented on the "stab me in the neck" line.
I never knew how much I would miss JJ and Emily until I saw Seaver. The woman bugs me. She acts like she has been there for years with the way she seems to give the profiles and gives orders to Hotch.
The case was really creepy. I could just imagine what it must be like to be tormented by the neverending voices. I loved the stuff with Reid and Morgan. I liked how the moment they knew that the unsub had mental problems,Morgan looked at Reid with worry. Reid really wasn't acting like himself when he barely could add to the profile. I love how he confided in Morgan about his fears and Emily. It was nice to hear Morgan call Reid "Pretty Boy" again. Maybe some people think that it's an insult,but it reminds me of the old days. It was creepy seeing Reid keep on making the stabbing motions in his leg whe he discovered the unsub was an insomniac,as was the part where Reid was saying "stab me in the neck".
I was disappointed that blondie got the end scene,but Reid looked so beautiful getting his much needed sleep that I ignored her.
I really hope Emily and JJ come back. Reid's the only one keeping me here now.
DoctaJ, I think I am going to be right there with you.
CBS and CM, you are a bunch of bleeping bleeps for letting go of two great actresses and writers who knew how to knock it out. I liked the Reid and Morgan moments. Hotch had some lines here and there, but you can't run a show on that. This was a terrific cast and terrific writing staff. What the "F." CBS you win the award for the bleeping bleeps of the century!
I hope your network rots along with your new android answer to a female character and spin-off!
Brutal and unimaginative. We've seen the opening scene before, with shadows and the eye. We've been there and done that with fabricated unsubs. Surely there is enough material without recycling old episodes?
Poor Emily. She 'dies' and very little on behalf of the team, except for the all-too-obvious ploy of the writers and Ed to get us to accept Seaver. Whatever. Prentiss, I miss you!
I had hopes we were in for a good ol' fashioned CM epi when the first 15mins were pretty balanced amongst all the characters but alas, it didn't take long to revert to the Morgan show. Apparently Rossi and Hotch aren't talented enough to notice Reid struggling. *rolls eyes*
I used to like Morgan. Now I'm saturated. Not nearly enough of the other characters, especially the Unit Chief. I sure hope that CBS sorts TG's contract soon b/c without him, I will be out. Not nearly enough of him this season and it shows.
Please at least try to retain your veteran writers... and bring back Andrew Wilder! He wrote amazing stories and cared about the characters.
No Hotch/TG, no S7 CM.
How old is Reid anyway? Isn't he way too old for schizophrenia? Why is this even an issue?
Anonymous, that is what I thought too about Reid. I thought he was past the age where that would be an issue.
I really liked the unsub part of the episode. It was creepy and reminiscent of past creepy unsubs. I thought that part was really well written and there was some great effects. Good job to the director. If it had the old cast I would have loved it.
I felt like the comment to Garcia that Prentiss would have wanted HER to embrace Seaver was really aimed at the fan audience. It rubbed me the wrong way. Its like saying they know she is not liked but they still think its because of AJ and Prentiss...when will they realize that most fans dislike her for a multitude of reasons most of which are not because of prentiss and jj. Even if they bring in an experienced profiler like Hotch said I still cannot embrace the seaver character. Which brings me to the point of why get an experienced profiler? Seaver seems to be as experienced as it gets - there is nothing in her lines that make you think she is less than an experienced profiler. She is not "learning" she is an actual contributing profiler - it just really cheapens the rest of the cast as they arent as special as I once thought they were since it seems anyone off the street can do the job. This is the part of the episode that i just cant wrap myself around. It really makes me go from thinking it was a great episode to oe that was ok...
I liked the fact that Hotch seemed more in character this week. And Reid/Morgan were great.
I guess the fact that for 6 years I envisioned the BAU as being this elite, best of the best unit made up of incredible minds made the viewing of this show quite entertaining...the fact that it has been reduced to that of anyone off the streets can profile makes it a real let down. Even when the ubsub part is really good. You need the elite with the great storyline to make a fantastic show.
Fantastic episode!!!
Not only did the mentally ill unsub pave the way for a lot of profiling, but I LOVED that this episode had a few different moments that brought a smile to my face.
Morgan/Garcia with the cupcakes = seriously one of the most well-written scenes, bittersweet I've ever seen on this show.
Morgan/Seaver with the crazy neighbor lady = rare humor. I would love to see some more "witness interviews" like this. I'm sure the FBI comes across a lot of harmless crazies so why not put that on the show more?
Reid "stab me in the neck" hallucination = creepily funny. I too wonder if this unsub will be making a return...
I thought this was great episode. The writing was balanced between the characters (although there could have been a bit more Hotch). We got see Morgan be his "big brother" with Reid again, which has be badly missing for a while. And I didn't interpet Seaver's comment to Hotch as on order, but I'm trying to give her a chance. I felt that they covered why Seaver is still with the unit. And it showed how close Hotch and Rossi are because I doubt that Hotch would talk about Strauss that way to any of the rest of team. Bottom line, I really enjoyed the ep.
I liked the episode but did not love it. Nice that they indeed mention Emily a couple of times. Loved the tiny Rossi-Hotch moment at the start. The case was interesting but it had TOO much blood, there is no need to show that much....sometimes is better to leave it to the imagination of the viewers. Liked Reid on this one, nice of him to confide in Morgan.
I must confess I tried to give Seaver a chance but it is just not happening....just do not like her character.
Another thing that I did not like is that we aré not getting enough Hotch....maybe next time!
I think alot of people forget that MGG is now 31 yrs old. Dr. Reid is 31 yrs old. MGG is so eternally young at heart that he comes off as a perpetual teenager. By this time we should be seeing a much more mature Dr. Reid...and I think we are in some aspects. He now dresses much more stylish and isn't visually presented to us a ubergeek who cant dress himself. Now I want to see some sort of reference to dating or interest in dating. (*that* would be some funky conversation btwn DM and the Dr.)Dr.Reid needs to complete his evolution but I'm in agreement that the mental illness train should be derailed in awhile. It's making for great Reid angst but by now he'd be manifesting and not just with migraines. Just my opinion. ROSSI Oh ROSSI..wherefore art thou ROSSI!
I haven't written here, but I have to tonight.
I don't even know what to say about this episode because I am annoyed right now, really annoyed. When Prentiss was alive on the show you tried using her to get people to accept Seaver, then it went to Rossi, now it is Morgan. I suspect soon it will be Reid and then Hotch. But no, you didn't stop there, you added the line that "dead" Prentiss would want them (which was really the auidence) to accept Seaver. That was low! What the eff, is this character so damn effing pathetic that you have to dig up a "dead" character to get the viewers to accept her. CBS and CM, I would ask you if you think a good portion of the viewers can't see through that low and cheap trick, but the fact that you put it in the episode answers my question.
Also, just where is Hotch hiding out nowadays? Must be someplace with Rossi because the only time you bring Hotch out is to say a few lines and Rossi apparently can only come out to play if he is playing daddy to Seaver. Morgan and Reid moments, they were nice, but the ending scene with Morgan and Seaver, hell, it was like he was talking to a dead fish. This is character just doesn't gel on the show no matter how many "dearly departed" characters you want to drag up to give some sort of endorsement.
CBS and CM, you need to check yourselves and get this connection back on line.
Mods can you please delete Carlos' comments? He has taken to personally attacking other posters by calling them immature and childish. Thank you.
Actually, in season 4 Reid was 27 (had a birthday on October), so he is 29 in season 6.
Carlos, the only person stirring hate here is you and your name-calling and your need to call everybody who doesn't like Seaver or Nichols' portrait of Seaver a hater.
Please, give your opinion in a polite manner and move on.
Loved this episode..very original..
however, and let's get to the however, bring prentiss back NOW....
MGG....I LOVE YOU 4-EVA. THE SCENE WITH MORGAN AND REID WAS GREAT.
Clever episode considering there was no Prentiss.
I loved Hotch talking down the UnSub. Finally Hotch was leading the team. What hell it must be to have that many voices in your head. Reid was amazing, the hallucinations were really clever.
Garcia with the cupcakes in front of Prentiss picture was super sweet. Nice twist that unsub hallucinations were induced by insomnia instead of schizophrenia. Finally Hotch gets out of the police station. Too much Morgan and Seaver. Especially since I think RN is a bad actress. If they are going to continue not utilizing Thomas Gibson and keep shoving Seaver down our throats then I am no longer tuning in.
Loved this episode. I miss Prentiss but this was a really good one. Everyone seemed more in character and eventhough there is no Prentiss or JJ, it had that old CM feel.
I loved the Morgan/Reid scene. It was like the old days and I loved it.
I liked Hotch's conversation with Rossi about how Seaver is not experienced enough to be the kind of profiler they need.
I didn't mind Seaver as much in this episode - don't get me wrong, I'm still not a fan but I didn't find her character as annoying.
Really well done overall.
Now I want to know, is this it for Reid's headaches or will there be more?
Oh and I also have to add that MGG's performance was excellent. Loved it!
What is getting old is the way that people can't accept the opinions of others. If you disagree, fine, but there is no need to try and inflict what you think about a situation onto others. Making those kind of statements are not going to change anyone's minds and opinions about specific issues and characters.
Please have some respect for the opinions of others.
Wow - I'm impressed. I feel like some of what we have been asking for has been answered: finally, more follow-up on Reid/headaches/mental condition, all in a natural way, following the loss of Prentiss. I think the writers and TPTB are trying to give us SOME of what we have been clamoring for and that is not just quality storylines but ones that make sense of our character as we know them. Loved the parallels between that poor sick unsub and Reid's own (I believe unfounded) fears for himself. I don't think it matters that Reid is actually too old to finally be manifesting these signs of his mother's illness; it is so real to him and he has worried about it for so long, he now thinks it's happening to him. I think it is psychosomatic and that the stress of losing JJ and Prentiss, two strong female figures in his poor lonesome life are causing him to crack. Not in a schizophrenic break, but the writers want us to see and feel Reid's fears and angst right along with him. Which we do: Wholeheartedly - whatever it takes to get some more background/resolution of his medical issues, I'll take it. The unsub was played extremely well as were his hallucinatory characters - the young woman was especially cruel and devilish.
It was so good to see Morgan being the big brother again to Reid, who so needs a family to lean on and Morgan was especially sensitive to him tonite. Also liked the refs to Prentiss and how much they both missed her.
Much as I disdain doing it I must say something I thought last epi but had confirmed tonite: it isn't just the character RN plays that doesn't fit. And I think it's more than just her acting "style." She is just wooden. Her lines and expressions are so forced and unnatural, that up against such great actors as we are used to (even the guests) she is lacking. Please do not call me a hater, esp. you Carlos, but I cannot help myself: when the camera pans to her, I want to cover my eyes and ears because it spoils the rest of the show and I can't let that happen. I try very hard not to focus on her and to even look away but it's very difficult. She is not getting any better. And it doesn't matter that they are giving her lines that make her seem more experienced as a profiler because she comes across so badly, that I want to jump up and down and yell "imposter!"
Seriously, Carlos. Ben. Mikey. Kenneth and a few anonymous: this woman may be the sweetest lady in the world but she does not belong on Criminal Minds. Period. I won't say anything more. And those of you tempted to jump on the bandwagon, please do do quietly and respectfully and do not use strong negative words such as hate. Please. I don't think the people I have just named have watched and loved this show as much as mosts of the rest of us and they cannot feel our distress over this. Totally apart from losing AJ and Paget and the good writers: those were travesties unto themselves.
But this one: it is an easy fix. Please, CBC, Ed, anyone with any power left there, do what needs to be done ASAP. Certainly before S7
Keep listening. Do what needs to be done. Thanks for listening..
I liked Hotch's conversation with Rossi about how Seaver is not experienced enough to be the kind of profiler they need.
I think a lot of people liked that scene. I know I did. CBS bring AJ back please.
Oh. Look. It's another Reid fake-out episode. And a sucky one at that. Also, STFU Seaver. I absolutely cannot take either your character newbie-ness ("aw shucks, do we ever get over it???"), or your purpose to provide the audience with information THEY'VE NEVER NEEDED IN THE LAST 5 SEASONS BEFORE YOU. She f-ed up even my Reid scenes! I can't even take her voice anymore. The second I see her in a scene I know to automatically put it on mute. I think it's saying something that I can actually live without Prentiss and JJ, but CANNOT live with Seaver.
Only good part: Morgan's "The day you start wandering aimlessly around the streets is the day I'll start worrying about you." Didn't really like, however, that in that scene he was basically used as an Afterschool Exposition Man on the Effects of Schizophrenia.
Gubegirl
I think it is wrong of you to want an actress off the show just because she doesn't irks you the right way
It is not your right to want an actress to become unemployed do you know what a knock this actress will get. Look at Lindsay lohan, Britney spears they got hate from selfish internet posters and they almost committed suicide because of all the unjustful hate they got.
i hate to see this happen again just because some people don't like her or thinks she isn't a good actress. Because she is a good actress you just can't see that because your mind is still on AJ and Paget and it is wrong to diss an actress like you do just because you don't like her.
I hate how the influence from the internet can wreck a person. Just give her a break i really don't think she likes all the hate just because your beloved characters got written out. And it isn't even her fault.
Lots of Morgan tonight. Loved it!
I'm glad to see them somewhat making up for all the Hotch they shoved down some of our throats over the years, and are now giving other characters more screen time.
I love Rossi, and Seaver, and Morgan and Garcia are my two top favorites.
The opening scene was a treat, and made me smile, which I haven't done in a while, while watching 'Minds.
I'll miss Prentiss, but not that much. I do miss JJ though.
Give me more Morgan and Garcia, and It will make up for it. lol.
Can't wait for the Morgan episode coming up soon! =D
Great to see a fellow Seaver fan here :-)
I thought the episode was really good very surprising ending
blue sunflower: your post was short-lived but I saw, read and appreciated it.
Maybe no hints at strong 4 letter words and a tad bit less snarkeyness - and hey, it may have passed muster.
Anyway, wanted to let you know that you made some good points. Don't be afraid to try again, just bite your tongue a teensy bit:)
Manners, people, they go a long way, and as Criminal Minds Fan said just today: Kindness does, too. We can do this; we can be adults and be nice ones to boot.
Think before you type. It's hard, I know, but worth doing to have this forum.
gubegirl said...
Think before you type. It's hard, I know, but worth doing to have this forum.
And yet, you'll note my last post stayed up with no problem, so there was nothing wrong with my language. Sorry, but I don't really do hypocrisy.
I don't know what's up with you people not standing Seaver, I confess i have had a hard time swallowing her presence, it really annoyed me at first but then i figured the writers won't kick her out and complaing about it won't change a thing i might as well accept her being there, now that i did, i see her as another team member who is there to do a job and is still learning. I'm not saying accept her, i'm telling you to deal with the writers' choice and suck it up like i have. I gotta say i'm disappointed by many choices they're making like hinting to the fact that Lynch is still around, that drove me nuts. it makes no sense to give so many hints of M/G romance since epi 8 to crush it down like this...anyway, i'm keeping some hope here that maybe they'll fix things up someway soon.
Loved this episode and really thought everyone in the show did a great job.
Morgan and Reid- Fantastic, in the bathroom. MGG rocks.
Hotch- with UnSub great.
Seaver- Sorry guys I thought she was endearing on the jet. I'm warming up to her. Yes, I miss Prentiss but
Seaver was really good
Rossi - always the man
Garcia - with the cupcakes...oh i cried
It's hard with Prentiss leaving but this was excellent.
To the previous Anonymous who wrote:
"I confess i have had a hard time swallowing her presence, it really annoyed me at first but then i figured the writers won't kick her out and complaing about it won't change a thing i might as well accept her being there...
i'm telling you to deal with the writers' choice and suck it up like i have...
anyway, i'm keeping some hope here that maybe they'll fix things up someway soon"
I'd think the only way you or anyone here can hope things will be "fixed up" is if the viewers care enough to keep voicing their opinions, even complaints about aspects of the show they don't appreciate, esp if they believe such wrongheaded changes are steering the show toward disaster. That's the reason for having a forum such as this, & it's extremely fortunate that (per CMF moderator) TPTB at CBS, CM, ABC etc. actually do look at the comments here. It's thus possible to hope that they may actually be heard & taken into consideration, & apparently some already have been (previous commenters have mentioned the ff. as good signs: the upgrade in Gina La Salle's qualifications for the spinoff, more family-like interactions among the team members, some follow-up on Reid's headaches, Hotch being more front & center...). I for one am thankful for those indications; I hope they lead up to the bigger, most-hoped for changes/re-additions for the next season, if not for the remainder of S6.
S6 is just starting to be shown in Asia so I try to keep up via online episodes when I can find them. I'm not sure whether I'll care to watch after Prentiss has gone. How "With Friends" plays out could decide that for me. I wish the best for the remaining, original cast (for Ms. Nichols, my wish is that her character could perhaps take a leave & then come back written better, with better qualifications, if she has to) & for all the viewers who care about CM. I really hope the bits that are truly broken will indeed be fixed & the show will find its strength once more.
I liked this episode, Garcia and Morgan, Hotch and Rossi, Reid and Morgan scenes were all terrific. I like many others was thrilled that Hotch expressed a concern to the addition of Seaver on the team. The unsub and his hallucination characters all did a great job.
It’s good to see that the writers/producers are listening to what the fans are expressing here and elsewhere. This episode was one of the better ones for S6.
I miss JJ and Prentiss and have no attraction to Seaver’s character; here’s hoping that S7 includes the team we’ve come to love as family…Hotch, Morgan, Reid, Garcia, JJ, Prentiss and Rossi.
Quick note, I was fortunate to see Kirsten read/perform a short story at the Dallas Museum of Arts and she was delightful both on stage and with the many fans whom she spoke with, signed autographs for and took pictures with. Thanks Kirsten!!!
Good basic episode. Liked the staging of the hallucinations -- nicely done. Liked having a Reid episode. Enjoyed better integration of Seaver who is starting to become more definite as character. It was OK.
Oi, when are we having some Rossi?!
UK viewer
To the other Anonymous who responded to Gubegirl thus:
"It is not your right to want an actress to become unemployed do you know what a knock this actress will get"
My apologies to both for butting in, & to CMFan for reverting to this topic (can't speak much abt the ep bec haven't seen it), but since I have also suggested that Ms. Nichols' character take a leave first before coming back written better, I figure I may speak for myself, & only for myself, regarding this. An actress does not have security of tenure in the work that she does, not even for the specific role that she plays. She can be fired for many reasons, & one of them can be that the character needed to be written out due to audience dislike. (Hell, AJ & Paget didn't even have that "justification" but their characters were still felt to be dispensable.) For viewers to stifle their dislike for an unbelievable & unrespected character just so the actress who plays her can continue to have a job is to place the actress' welfare above the show's, & I don't see CM fans agreeing to that. The character was written badly, & the viewers are naturally reacting to that. RN fans should perhaps direct their indignation (bec of most CM fans' lack of sympathy for the character she plays & desire to see such character off the show) to the show's writers/producers who have written her so weakly & still seem determined to forcefeed her to the viewers. For myself, if that character disappears for a while & then reappears armed with experience & credentials, I wouldn't mind having her back & seeing what she can, at last, actually & credibly contribute to the team.
"With Friends Like These..." was a good episode. It started off a bit slow, and I honestly wasn't feeling it but it as it progressed it really picked up and was quite intriguing. I loved all the Reid bits. I think MGG was amazing. He has been fabulous this entire season. CBS better give him the payrise he wants. No one deserves it more than him. Reid and Morgan were great, their scenes together were wonderful, especially the bathroom scene. Poor Reid. I felt so bad for him. I kind of freaked out when he started doing the stabbing action on his leg. It was scary! I felt bad for the unsub too. I think too much screen time was wasted on him though. They could have given Hotch some more screen time. I wasn't satisfied with the part he got. He's the leader for god's sake..they better start paying more attention to him.
With everything we saw in this episode, I hope I'm wrong but I think they may go the schizophrenia route with Reid. That's the only thing that makes sense given what they've shown us. I will be livid if they give him schizophrenia because that will mean his days on the show are numbered. I can't imagine CM without him. Maybe they'll surprise us all and it will turn out to be something totally different. I'm hoping for the latter.
I'm still not feeling Ashley Seaver. And I don't think I ever will. Her questions are distracting and slow down the pace of the show. They have to stop and explain every little thing to her. After watching the show incessantly for almost six years, I don't know about others, but I definitely don't need a lesson in profiling. It even takes away from the case at hand. First she asks rookie questions and then she turns around and profiles like an expert? This is unbelievable even for a fictional TV show. After the first 10-15minutes, I enjoyed the show a lot more because she was hardly there. Hotch said that they were looking for another agent with experience. This fills me with hope. Maybe Seaver is only there temporarily to give the writers time to flesh out a better, experienced character for season7. Either way I'm hoping she doesn't return next season. Not as a regular at least. And I have to say this- the actress is not good. If you look into her eyes, there's always this same, blank expression, no emotion, no nothing, she is like wood. Her acting does not allow me to feel a connection to the character. She's been there for quite a few episodes and if some viewers have not been able to connect with her till now, I'm afraid they never will. It took me only one episode to warm up to Emily. That's the mark of a good performer. They always make their characters more endearing and believable. Rachel Nichols sadly doesn't have that ability.
But to be fair, last anonymous (above), the way you describe RN is exactly how I feel (and a lot of my friends feel) about TG's acting. But that's just how it is. He does a good enough job and the actor himself seems like a really sweet chap. So I accept the character and concentrate on the other members of the team who hold much more impact for me. Truth is, TG ain't that bad. And RN is starting to fill out her character too. (As well as being given a bit of a boost by the writers building in support for her. Good on them for backing their girl -- right professional and kind thing to do.)
Mantegna, I should mention him here. The most bizarrely underused and genuinely talented actor on any show at the present moment in the known universe. Did I forget to say sexy? Where the hell is Rossi? I'm starting my own campaign. Where's the writer who can give us a terrific Rossi episode? On the other hand, I strongly value that he's just about the only member of the team who hasn't been stabbed/shot/molested/abducted/tortured etc. Perhaps we should be glad the writers don't want to give the guy something to do.
In any case, it was refreshing to have a proper CM case that wasn't abbreviated by the needs of the exit arc. That extra time made a strong difference to the pace. Loved the scene with the soft-spoken birdy old lady on the doorstep. Just those details of characterisation made a real difference to the episode.
UK viewer
Sorry, not an 'anonymous' but Asian fan. That's whose post I was replying to.
UK viewer
Gah! Not Asian fan either, but Heyya. It was your post I read. Doh. It was your comments about wood.
Shoot me now,
UK viewer
Mostly I loved this episode, it was very interesting and had my attention gripped from start to finish.
I absolutely adored the bathroom scene between Reid and Morgan. I've missed their brotherly relationship so much and it was wonderful to see Morgan being all big brothery to Reid again. I was so glad Reid confided in Morgan, poor Reid needs a friend right now. The poor boy looked so sad, his heartbroken little voice when he said Emily's name got me right choked up. MGG was fabulous in that scene. Another excelllent episode for him. And YAYYY for 'kid' and 'Pretty Boy'. It was the good ol' days back again. :-)
Loved also that Morgan noticed Reid's difficulties during the profile. I did love Morgan in this episode which pleased me greatly. I've not particularly liked him this season (or in S5) so it feels wonderfully good to be feeling my S1-S4 Morgan love again.
Although I hope that this is not the end of Reid's health issues storyline now.
Also loved Hotch's comment about them needing an experienced profiler on the team, rather than someone straight out of the academy.
Things I didn't like so much was Morgan's not so subtle comment to Garcia (or rather, to fandom) to embrace Seaver. Sorry, Morgan, I've tried but nope...it's just not happening for me. Plus the glaring horrible absence of Prentiss throughout.
gubegirl said
Much as I disdain doing it I must say something I thought last epi but had confirmed tonite: it isn't just the character RN plays that doesn't fit. And I think it's more than just her acting "style." She is just wooden. Her lines and expressions are so forced and unnatural, that up against such great actors as we are used to (even the guests) she is lacking. Please do not call me a hater, esp. you Carlos, but I cannot help myself: when the camera pans to her, I want to cover my eyes and ears
TOTALLY AGREE
anonymous said
Because she is a good actress you just can't see that because your mind is still on AJ and Paget and it is wrong to diss an actress like you do just because you don't like her.
This is simply not true. I have made my decision fairly based on her performances not based on wanting AJ and Paget back. Bottom line is: both Nichols as an actress and Seaver as a character aren't cutting it. And that is not hate. It's called an opinion. If Nichols can't handle bad reviews then she is in the wrong business.
I agree with gubegirl. Reid is 29 now and it is true the illness usually appear in the teens or early twenties but because of the symptoms he is enduring it is logical for his fears to manifest themselves. When you have dreaded something all your life and you think it is happening your fears can overwhelm you. (Real-life age and character-age are not the same thing. (I am not sure how many know this but Rachel Nichols is actually 2 months older than Mattew Gray Gubler, so I am not sure what age she is supposed to be playing.)
I agree with everything Marleny said. I love the show but I just can't stand Seaver so, sorry, but I am done with S6. Maybe I come back for S7 if Seaver is gone.
I don't think that they will introduce anyone new this season. My guess is if they do introduce a new character, it will be in the beginning of next season.
If CBS is indeed waiting to find out if Paget's pilot will be picked up and/or if she decides to come back, they wouldn't fill the slot that could be potentially hers again with another character. The other more frightening possibility is that they will conjure up some feat of epic proportions that Super Rookie Ashley Seaver will perform that will blow the socks off of Hotch and make him accept her as a full fledged BAU team member. They could also dust off surrogate father of the season Rossi to go to bat for his "daughter" in training.
First of all, I don’t know that there are words to really describe last night’s episode, but I’ll try. IT SUCKED!
They lost a valued member of their team and the first scene of the episode, other than Garcia gazing at Prentiss’ picture on the ‘memorial wall’ was about the new ‘graduate’… ??? She gets cupcakes, she’s a big girl now! So now she’s graduated and become a profiler????? Morgan saying that Emily would want them to embrace Seaver -based on what? I know Emily said she would mentor Seaver but were there actually any scenes, of the few that they had together before Emily’s ‘demise’, that showed her mentoring? I don’t remember any but it could be because I absolutely despise this character. As an actress she’s stiff, unemotional, lifeless is the best I can describe her and as far as her character goes, said at least 1000 times or more – she doesn’t belong on ANY level!!! GET RID OF SEAVER!
The dialogue was wooden, mechanical for all of the cast – call it what you will, it just didn’t make any sense. The storyline was never explained, the reason for this kid’s illness, how he came to be a killer, etc. All of the clues that they find to explain to the audience how this unsub came to be….It felt, to me, like the cast (not just characters they play) were just going thru the motions. I turned the channel several times and that’s only started happening since the beginning of this season. Bad scripts along with the addition of a worthless character – it’s very disappointing.
I’ve watched since the beginning but I have to say that I won’t watch Wed nights anymore. Last night was just too much and the end of it for me.
Optika I didn't see you comment before. As soon as I saw the eppy I just posted my thoughts without reading any of the prior comments and went offline. Thank you so much for your congratulations. I really appreciate it :)
Oh God Paget please come back! CBS rehire AJ and please bring back Andrew Wilder and/or Oahn Ly if they are available.
Agree with Optika, would love Oanh Ly back, and more writing involvement from the wonderful Bernero too.
To be cheerful about the show that we have though, it looked like MGG was having great fun as Ben's hallucination. Such zest for a throat cutting.
UK viewer
I too would like more writing from Bernero.
Dear Ed,
You are a smart man. I have faith in you. Don't let a pretty face fool you. AJ and Paget are miles above RN in acting ability. And AJ has a kid to support. Please try to get AJ and Paget back.
I feel like criminal minds is missing something now. JJ and Emily were sort of maternal characters. it seems like they have to baby seaver...unlike when emily came and just jumped right into things. but about the episode. i thought the unsub was interesting. i loved reid and morgan's bathroom scene. i thought they were both awesome in this episode. i feel liek were seeing less and less of rossi unless hes with seaver.
In the context of the show, there's nothing wrong with teaching somebody. Exactly how else are they supposed to learn anyway? You can't become an elite profiler until you get field experience.
So for the zillionth time, people need to give it a rest with all of these contrived reasons to hate Seaver.
I think the fanatical fans that don't appreciate seaver will never accept anyone other then their beloved Paget and AJ. Really really sad
I enjoyed the episode. The writing was better than most of the episodes. I thought the unsub was fresh and interesting.
Yes, I fall into the box of people having problems with Seaver. NOT Rachel Nichols. I don't blame her for taking a job. I don't hold her responsible for our losing JJ and Prentiss but I don't like the character. Perhaps in time the writers will find their groove and write her more realistically. We'll see but last night was a pleasing episode.
Peter may I suggest finding Ben, Mikey, Carlos and Kenneth. Together you can all form your long-awaited RN fan club where you get together and put other CM fans down, calling them immature and childish and your latest insult for the fans: "really, really sad". As far as I can see, you are the only one being hateful and immature here.
Peter, do you go to any other place that CM is discussed? I think you would be shocked at the number of people who despise, yes, I said despise, the Seaver character who had little to no emotional attachment to AJ or Paget. Sure, they liked their characters and thought that they shouldn't have been written out, but they are devoted to one or more of the males on the show. These people don't know the back story with AJ and Paget and let me tell you, by the comments that I have seen, and there have been plently, they hate the Seaver character with a passion. So please don't use Ed's old line that this is solely an issue about AJ and Paget; that is weak and tired. The issue is that the character is all types of suck, the delivery is just god awful and in comparison to the female leads the show has had before, this is just pathetic and tragic.
On another note, I would like to admonish people to please don't take for granted that TG and/or SM will work out their contract issues with the network. Would it be stupid for CBS not to meet their contract demands, yes, it would, but CBS is not beyond stupid and I think it is a mistake to naturally assume that TG and SM are a shoe in for season 7.
I think both TG and SM have made clear that they love the show and want to continue in it, but yet, no agreement has been made and I think that is because they are, rightly, sticking to their guns when it comes to the terms of the renewal of their contracts. Both TG and SM are talented in their own right and I believe if push comes to shove they will opt to walk away in lieu of getting shafted by the network.
I think the fanatical fans that don't appreciate seaver will never accept anyone other then their beloved Paget and AJ. Really really sad
It may be sad in your opinion, but it doesn't change the fact that that's how people feel. The argument that it is not a valid reason for fans to not like Seaver because fans prefer AJ instead - well that just doesn't hold water. Because it IS a valid reason. People have their preferences. It's been almost a year now and the fans are NOT letting it go. In fact, it is now made worse by Paget also being gone. If I was CBS, I would give this some serious thought. Disgruntled fans are only one step away from being ex-fans who turn the channel. And I myself am approaching that point.
Samantha,
Totally agree! I hate the Seaver character AND I don't think RN can act her way out of a paper bag. She's stiff, wooden, emotionless and just plain does not fit. I wish with all my heart she would go away.
If they left the show as is, without AJ and PB, I can understand that changes are made and accept the loss. But....to keep shoving this God-awful character down our throats and hope that someday we may all like her, is just beyond pathetic.
Like I stated earlier in my post, I am done with Wed nights - it's just too awful to continue watching a show be decimated the way this one has been.
Just my two-cents....
I'm trying to sort out the hints and clues and I have a theory. I think they're going to bring JJ back as a full-fledged profiler.
I know she said once that she didn't want to be a profiler, but that was a long time ago and a lot has happened. For one thing, she's found out that Strauss considers her dispensable. From her appearance and behavior in "Lauren", she's taken control of her life, being assertive, and she's been away from the team long enough to have taken the required classes. The team would welcome her back with open arms emotionally and there would be no question about her qualifications or abilities.
I was struck by something MGG said in one of the radio interviews. A fan asked him if Mandy (Patinkin) or AJ might come back, and he said that he'd had dinner with one of them the night before and it was definitely a possibility. I think we can all assume that it was AJ, since I really doubt it was Mandy. (Pause here for a moment until the horrible flashbacks end, if you need to.) So, yeah, I know our Matthew can be a tease and throw us misinformation, but I really want to believe AJ/JJ is coming back. TG said something similar in an interview, and while he could have been talking about AJ or Paget, I'm thinking he meant AJ just because Paget won't have an answer about her new pilot for months still.
The best part of this theory is that if JJ comes back as a profiler and Paget decides to come back, too, it would still work without changing the chemistry much.
(Plus the fans would be soooooo happy!)
Opinions?
Lin from Ohio, here is what I am thinking. I could totally see a scenario where JJ has taken the profiling classes and offers to come back to help the team being that they are down an experienced (JJ has the years of experience, plus in her job before, it did require some profiling). I must admit that I would much rather see JJ in the role of Media Liasion because that is what she likes and what I think she is most suited to do, not that she couldn't be a profiler, I think she could, but I think she would shine best as the Media Liasion. Also, the team badly needs one. I love Garcia, but I am sick to death of seeing her give the case presentations. It just doesn't flow.
In a perfect scenario, I could see JJ coming in to fill in that role, and if Prentiss returns (Oh Lord please make that so), then I could see a situation where she asks Hotch if she could go back to being the team Media Liasion. By that time she is already in, so ha ha Strauss would just have to deal with it, LOL
Anonymous, I don't know how anyone could say that TG's performance as Hotch is wooden. Hotch doesn't show a lot of expression, or tries not to, because that is within the realm of his character. Hotch is the leader, stoic, he feels he's not allowed to show emotion, which he conveys so expertly with his eyes and his lips. Hotch says more in one shot with his face and no lines than RN does a whole scene. TG doesn't need lines. He's an expert at his craft.
RN was between a rock and a hard place I think. I have no dislike for the actress herself, although I must admit I don't like her portrayal of Seaver. I just can't like Seaver, no matter how much I try. It's worse now that she's not a cadet anymore and feels she's a bona fide profiler. When MP left viewers were up in arms that this was the end of CM but he was replaced by JM. From his first scene shooting birds, you knew this was no Gideon, nowhere near the character we'd grown to love, yet JM made us like Rossi and accept him, the same with PB. But Seaver, I just can't seem to accept or like, I don't know if it's the wild straying from the whole premiss of the show, or that I just don't think RN has any chemistry with the cast. It's not that she's a new character. I can live with that. If I could live with all the years of cast changes on Law & Order, a new cast member shouldn't bother me, but this one does, so that tells me that she's just so wrong, somewhere in the equation, she's wrong.
We watched JJ for five seasons. She wasn't a profiler, and I can only think of a couple of occasions where she participated in the profile. That made sense. The couple of times she did participate was after she'd been with the team for a long time and had likely learned much more than she could have from any classroom.
I think this character has been handled wrongly from the outset and think perhaps I might have accepted Seaver more if she'd started out like JJ, not a liaison but, with perhaps Hotch or Rossi, going through the cases where their help was requested and showing her how they chose each one. That I might have more easily accepted, and it would have made more sense for a cadet/probationary agent to start at the beginning and not just suddenly jump right in to profiling, thereby negating the whole premiss of the BAU. She could even be allowed to present a chosen case, not that I wish for her to replace JJ, but it would seem like the natural progression in learning and almost anything would be better than Garcia.
Just saw the episode via ITunes. Nice, solid episode. Looking forward to the rest of the season.
CM dropped 6% from "Lauren" episode
CM 9:00 pm 3.4 (12.862)
CM 9:30 PM 3.5 (12.837)
CMSB
SB 10:00 pm 2.4 (9.628)
SB 10:30 pm 2.2 (9.051)
Ratings for CM are still good, but for the first time in a long while, they lost a little bit of footing in the second half hour. Up until now, they had been gaining viewers the second half hour.
Suspect Behavior, these ratings are just crap. You want a high 2.0, closer to 3.0 or above to be worth a damn.
Nanci said: "All of the clues that they find to explain to the audience how this unsub came to be….It felt, to me, like the cast (not just characters they play) were just going thru the motions."
I had a completely different reaction. Now instead of just the exposition on the unsub, the writer showed the unsub's behavior during the briefing. I think this is a wiser use of a visual media.
And as to how the unsub came to be? Sometimes we just don't know. It sounds like he was born that way and will probably die that way.
As I stated previously, I thought this episode was just solid, very well done.
I just checked the ratings for last night's episode--12.9 million, a decrease of nearly 1 million--the ratings decline is beginning. Is that really a 6% drop?
I don't know how low the ratings could go for Criminal Minds, but it's clear that after Prentiss's departure, the ratings are beginning to slip. How much you wanna bet that the ratings will drop even lower for the subsequent weeks, on a gradual million number loss?
I mean, is 6% a steep cut? It might make a case for Paget to return--the ratings are dropping, we need you back.
Anonymous 2, you could be right. It could be more than 6%. Sorry if my 6% is not accurate and it is actually more than that.
Does anyone knows who plays Ben in this episode?
This week's ratings were 3.4/12.9. Last weeks reatings were 3.5/13.4. My math tells me that's a drop of about 500,000 viewers. If it were the lowest ratings of the season I'd say there might be cause for alarm, but since there have been four other episodes this season with lower ratings I'd say it's just more of the normal ratings trend for CM. It goes up and down all season. Wait until the end when the season average is tallied to see how far it's really dropped.
I think the other times may have been when American Idol was in the try-out stages, right? They usually score big when they are in that stage so that would affect the ratings for CM. However, I think that American Idol is winding down. I maybe wrong about that though, but I get the sense that they may be close to their final stages, so if the ratings continue to dip for CM now, I think that would be something that needs to be looked at because it could be indicative of something other than American Idol.
Please correct me if I am wrong about where American Idol currently is in their show as far as the contestants or if the other times ratings took a little dip for CM it wasn't during the try-out stage.
I'm not an Idol watcher, but I think the interest in it heightens toward the end when they are getting down to the final handful of candidates and not the other way around. As for the other four episodes, no I don't think all them were going up against Idol. I think Idol is only on for 90 minutes next week instead of 2 hours so that could boost CM's ratings next week, but that won't mean anything other than the ratings are continuing on with their normal fluctuations. Like I said, unless they take a major plunge, I wouldn't get overly excited. Paget has been offered her job back so plummeting ratings aren't going to improve that situation. The ball is in her court.
annonymous said:
"Ratings for CM are still good, but for the first time in a long while, they lost a little bit of footing in the second half hour. Up until now, they had been gaining viewers the second half hour."
CM lost 25 000 viewers at the half hour but gain 0.1 in the demo and all that matter IS the demo, so for CBS CM gain ratings at the half hour. Also, let's not forget those ratings are not the finals which will be known later today. CM did well after a week of rerun.
btw Pretty solid episode with an interesting unsub. Love that Reid was the one who got to talk to Ben, he sure knew what was going on with Ben.
On the downside, too much Morgan, again, I'm feed up with this character, way too much of him this season. Is Rossi still part of the team? Apart from the scene at the start with Hotch I don't remember what he did in that episode.
When will we get a Hotch episode this season? What about his secret?
CM fan
The thing is that ratings dips don't happen in a bubble, by that I mean, there is usually a cause for a dip. With CM, depending on what time of the year it is, that means American Idol. Other times, it could maybe be that people didn't care for an episode. This time, could they have lost viewers in the second half hour to American Idol, maybe, but the trend has largely been that CM picks up viewers during the second half hour. At least that is how it has been for the past several weeks and I think maybe even beyond.
If the Anonymous poster got the ratings from where I think he or she got them from, they are pretty much the final ratings. Again, if it is the site I am thinking of, they pretty much report what will be final. CM is still doing well in the demo, so that is good, but again, any drop, no matter how big or small, should be looked at.
sf81837, yes, the ball is in Paget's court now. It is up to her what to do from this point on regardless of what happens with CM.
Once again, this wasn't a huge ratings drop, but it is a drop, and all drops should be examined closely if they continue to happen, regardless if it is on a small or large scale as you don't want a situation to potentially slip out of your hands.
people you are forgetting that CM use to go against American Idol: the results show and not the performance show. The difference is on average, the performance show gets 5millions more viewers than the results show. So yes, CM is facing a tougher challenge this season.
Coming up after a week off and facing AI is not to be ashamed to have lost 0.2 in the demo.
CM is in no danger to be canceled as its demo average of 3.5 for the season (including last night episode) is way above CBS average of 2.8. For those who wonder, CM is off by 0.1 in the demo from last year and has 15 000 more viewers than last year and I'm not counting viewers who watch on DVR 7 days later from which CM usually gets between 2.6 to 2.9millions more viewers and a 1.0 demo.
CM fan
Lin from Ohio and Samantha: I can totally see AJ returning via any of the scenarios you suggest. And in my book, JJ is so experienced and spent so many years working so closely with the team, inc.the field, I say be damned with the protocol of taking classes unless that is ABSOLUTELY necessary or takes place prior to her return(I personally could not watch her go thru any "training-yeesh!)
She could return to being her media liaison if PB returns and it could easily be explained away, she is a team player who will jump in where she is needed, etc.
JJ is such a sensitive, perceptive people person, she could easily step into a profiling role, fit into the group seamlessly and go back to "liaising" (love that Hotch-ism from "Lo-Fi") if that suits her or the team at a later date.
Getting both ladies back could a pie-in-the-sky concept, hey, let's dream big! But I am happy to settle for one and that would be either one at this point.
On the Seaver issue, I just don't see how they can leave her in the role as they have her, graduate or not. As I said earlier, her acting skills are so weak it makes it hard to follow the story because it is so distracting. And I have not criticized her acting before this epi; I was willing to let her get comfortable in her role (even tho' it made no sense) and now she is several epi's into it (5 or 6?) and there has been absolutely no improvement there. Her presentation is anything but natural and seems so trite and forced. When I said "wooden" I meant it. The emotions that AJ and PB can evoke by just a glance with their eyes/brows cannot be equated by a paragraph out of the mouth of our newbie. Sorry, I am not being mean, I am being honest.
I'm with Pat, too; we could see that JM was a totally different personality (first scene:shooting birds instead of loving them as did Mandy!) It was never questioned that he had the credentials so that was never an issue - we just to learn to like him. And it did not take long. Nor was it hard for him to fit in; he has always been an assertive tho' sensitive& friendly and fatherly type with just enuf in-your-face attitude that he contributed to the team from the get-go.
Re: recent Hotch: he has not been given enuf to say or do lately but he is certainly not "wooden." Stoic is what Hotch is, and always has been. When we do get that little hint of humor or a smile, we just appreciate it so much more.
Hopefully, we will not see this lesser role lead into him leaving because of his job/stress/Hayley's death/caring for Jack, etc.
Will be happy to watch last nite's epi again tonite; I always catch so much more the 2nd and 3rd time around and this one is def one worth sitting thru again. Also want to discuss the likelihood of that unsub showing up again - esp. since Reid's storyline is to be continued, it just might. Maybe there will be a Corazon II with both of them hallucinating simultaneously? Just kidding...Those of the unsub last nite were extremely well done -better than the Corazon ones, IMHO.
Now, I really must go pour myself another cup of coffee and contemplate on the HUGE difference of the top photo of Reid and Garcia - just like family - goofing off (so cute with his mismatched socks and her darling MaryJanes!) and then, sigh, back to the one at the beginning of this thread...sigh...my, how our boy has grown, hasn't he? HUGE difference....
Sameera,
No those ratings are not final, we will know those by around 4:00pm or later 5:00pm. The ratings that have been posted on TvByTheNumbers are those WITHOUT the west coast. Usually CM gain viewers but rarely get adjusted in the demo if it does it will be by no more than 0.1 for the demo.
CM Fan
CM Fan, your right. The show is absolutely not in danger of getting canceled, absolutely not. The only point I am trying to bring up is that dips in ratings should always be examined to see what possible cause and effect could be leading to the dip. Yes, American Idol is one factor, but I think it would be remiss to ignore the fact that maybe part of the dip had to do with other factors. Now, did it have to do with other factors? I don't know, but that is something that should be looked at especially if it continues.
Yes, I know that CM Fan, but the times I have followed those ratings they have been pretty close to the mark. But yes, they could change.
Sorry for the multiple psts, i forget to add stuff. Yes, the demo is all that really matters, so yes, the fact that they may end with a 3.4 or 3.5 in the demo's is great. The total number of viewers is not as important next to the demo; the demo is what drives the ad revenue. However, a negative trend in the number of viewers could infect the demo and that is why it should be examined. I hope that makes sense. Again, sorry for the multiple posts.
Anonymous re : Ben
The actor's name is Bug Hall (we won't forget that one!) and I know his face was familiar to me, like from a CSI epi or something like that but I also think I remember seeing him as a kid.
Sameera,
Yes, CBS will look at those ratings and look why the dip. Was it because of the story? Characters that were the focus? What was going on, on AI, could the last few minutes of AI take those 25 000 viewers?
From experience, I have access to CM ratings since 2005 and CM always have up and down episodes. ex: 2005 one week 15millions viewers with 4.6 demo next episodes ( two weeks later) 12.10millions viewers demo 3.5 demo.
My guess is that what hurt CM more was coming from a rerun.
CM Fan
Yes, that was my whole point. I think moving forward being that there will be no further reruns, at least I don't think there will be, that is what will maybe reveal something that the network may pause to look at if the demo goes down being that changes in the structure of the show have been implemented. All we can do is wait and see.
Lin from Ohio, I actually have proof that MGG was indeed talking about AJ! Firstly, he referred to her as "she" and secondly, I think the night before AJ's husband posted a picture of MGG's belt buckle on twitter. It said "Gubler" and it kind of opened like a knife. It was awesome :D! I know it was MGG in that pic, because a couple of days back, AJ posted a pic of MGG, her hubby, herself and Kirsten, and I could make out from his clothes that it was from the same night. If she comes back I will jump for joy! I loved her in "Lauren" she was just so cool, poised, and beautiful. The way she always carries herself with so much grace and dignity. She just belonged and still does. Please bring her back Ed, CBS, whoever has the authority to. I love AJ/JJ. I miss her immensely.
Pat I agree completely with what you said about Thomas Gibson's acting. For me, his portrayal of Hotch is flawless. How he wasn't nominated for an Emmy for his performance in "100" still boggles my mind.
The current cast, except for RN are all amazing and wonderful performers. She is bringing down the quality of the show, her character is nonsense, and she unfortunately doesn't have the ability to breathe life into her character. I feel bad for the others. When I watched "With Friends Like These.." for the second time, I actually skipped all the scenes she was in except when she was in some scene with the entire team or something. In such situations, one can't even skip the scenes. I hope she leaves. My viewing experience is being ruined because of her :(
My Source delivered the goods within twelve hours of it airing on the West Coast. Bless 'em!!
Lots of people have already summed the episode up nicely, but here's my thoughts:
Prentiss. I wonder if not much was said about her because the team really aren't saying much? Like they're bottling stuff up. Hotch said he was worried about them, I'm guessing he orders bereavement counselling because of that. Am I correct in understanding that'll be in the next episode?
Nice early scenes with Morgan & Garcia, like from the good old days. It didn't seem too forced or contrived, like some of the "banter" the new writers came up with a few times earlier in the season. I also like Hotch back to his moody best, he seemed far more in character when he expressed his concern for the team and that Seaver was too much of a novice for his team (I'm paraphrasing).
I'll say my bit on Seaver before I carry on. I don't see her as a direct replacement for JJ & Prentiss, although I can see why many people do. Obviously I'd love to see those great two ladies return to the show FULL TIME, but Seaver's presence in the BAU goes against firstly what Hotch said about not everybody being able to trying profiling just because they fancy having a go at it (paraphrasing again) and on the section of the FBI website about the real BAU, it says agents need to have years of experience to even be considered. I'm not even going to discuss whether I think Rachel Nichols is a good actress. I have to say I feel sorry for the woman, it must be horrible having to put up with some of the grief she's getting from people who don't know the difference between a character on a TV show and a person from the real world.
I thought the unsub hallucinating people who weren't there was similar to "Normal" where the Road Warrior hallucinated his family were still alive, even though he'd killed them. I'm not saying that's a bad thing, btw, as I enjoyed that episode too. I like the way this latest episode was filmed; it was quite fragmented, as if reflecting what was going on in Ben's head.
MGG was excellent during the briefing scenes, his microexpressions are so convincing you know exactly what emotions he's portraying without needing words or other gestures. I wonder if he practices in the mirror every morning/night?! I also loved the scene between Morgan and Reid in the "Little Boys Room" - again, it harked back to the good old days.
They've not got long to reveal the other secrets though - we still don't know Morgan's, Rossi's or Hotch's (although I suspect his secret might be that he knows Prentiss is alive).
As for the unsub, I also wondered if by showing him at the end it means he'll be back in some capacity. Although, it may just be showing that the voices will torment him forever, like Reid being tormented by the fear he may one day become schizophrenic like his mother. Just a theory.
Yeah, I liked it. Roll on episode 20...
Blimey Limey, glad you are still with that name; don't want another 13th step that could trigger a name change :)
Since it doesn't seem like anyone else has mentioned this, I'm not sure if people realize the significance of the final scene with Morgan and Seaver.
Seaver tells Morgan that she's having trouble sleeping because of the gray area of seeing serial killers as people. She asks Morgan if it ever gets better, and Morgan looks over at Reid, who is sleeping soundly, and says that fortunately it does.
This is clearly a reference to a first season episode where Reid tells Morgan that he's been having nightmares. Morgan tells Gideon, and Gideon talks to Reid about focusing on the people they save. The episode ends with Reid falling asleep.
I thought it was kind of a cool reference that was worth mentioning.
people who don't know the difference between a character on a TV show and a person from the real world
I have no problem differentiating between a TV character and a real person. I happen to think that both the TV character and the real person (as an actress - not as a person) are not that great. No confusing the two anywhere. One is fictional and the other doing a job. A particular job which happens to be subject to public reviews and opinions, whether good or bad. I have made no statements or hate attacks about RN as a person. I simply am voicing my opinion on her performance as an actress. No hating. No inability to differentiate between fictional character and the actress.
I really liked this episode. It was suitably creepy and felt like a horror movie, particularly at the vague and unsettling ending. The director of this episode, Anna Foerster, tends to bring the extra creepy in her episodes, and she did not disappoint me tonight. I really like her visual style with the hallucinations and the flashbacks.
My favorite in this episode of course was Reid, and this type of story is well suited to him and his gifts. His extensive personal and book knowledge of mental illness were put to good use here, and without it, I don’t feel the team would have had as deep of an understanding of the unsub as they did. He’s the one who really knows all the different types of schizophrenia and their hallucinations. It’s why he was able to figure out that the unsub’s vivid hallucinations didn’t match typical schizophrenic hallucinations and they were missing a key variable to the case. It’s certainly understandable why this type of case and unsub would make Reid deeply uncomfortable, particularly the implied link between schizophrenia and serial killing, since he’s harbored a fear of developing schizophrenia all his life. Unlike what Morgan said, Reid is past the statistical average age for men experiencing schizophrenic breaks (it’s typically 15-24, and Reid is 29), but that is not enough to calm his fear, particularly with his ongoing headaches and insomnia. I really liked to see Reid working this case the entire way through. He was the one who figured out why the unsub was buying large amounts of salt, connected it to an exorcism, and to local churches. His reading of the scene where Ben killed his mother surrogate was interesting as he guessed that the unsub slept next to the victim, and what would drive him to do that. It was unsettling to watch Reid detail how exhausting it is to stab someone 71 times while he was stabbing his leg. He definitely was getting into the profiling, far more than usual. At the end, it was fitting that Reid was the one who tried to talk down Ben the best. He has a very calming, gentle nature when dealing with unsubs in general, and in particular he knows exactly how to handle schizophrenics experiencing hallucinations and play into believing their hallucinations are real. Intentional or not, this interaction was a nice throwback to “Derailed” when Reid essentially did the same thing to get the unsub to back down peacefully. And boy, was it deeply creepy (and I mean this as a compliment) to see Ben’s hallucination of Reid telling him to stab him in the neck and gesturing at the same time. But at least we got the absolutely adorable shot of Reid sleeping on the plane ride home. He looked so young, innocent and vulnerable.
Morgan was all over this episode, and I am glad to see a return to the more caring, empathetic Morgan who his teammates confide. In particular, it was nice to see Morgan and Reid FINALLY having a brotherly interaction with each other. I think this might have been the first time since season four’s “Amplification.” In the first four seasons, he always looked out for Reid and took care of him like a baby brother. I hope this type of care continues in future episodes, because Reid definitely needs it, since it doesn’t seem like he has anyone else in his life. Morgan really seemed to listen to Reid and knew how to comfort him by emphasizing that whatever his fear of mental breakdown is, he is still able to use his powerful brain in productive ways to solve cases. I liked the gentle humor of the scene where Reid said he ONLY read five books the previous week, and Morgan telling him he wouldn’t worry about Reid until he’s wandering around the streets aimlessly.
(cont)...
...(cont)
I definitely felt like Morgan’s line to Penelope about Emily wanting everybody to accept Ashley was aimed squarely at the fans who don’t like this character. Why would Emily feel the need to say something like that to the team? The BAU welcomed Ashley from day one. It was good to see Hotch express reservations about Ashley to Rossi, but that was a conversation that should have happened in “25 to Life.” The team DOES need an experienced profiler now that Emily is gone and Hotch acknowledged that Ashley isn’t it. Of course you wouldn’t know that by the way she was talking. I guess she must have went and read all the textbooks since the last case. If this was real life, someone new would have been brought in to the BAU already, but that wouldn’t work right now with the show. I am not an Ashley fan, and still feel like her placement on the team is full of weak justification. Now the writers are pinning her placement on Strauss. Is that because the writers couldn't come up with a suitable reason why Hotch would want her assigned to the team as her first assignment fresh out of the Academy? Why exactly would Strauss-strict, bureaucratic, by the rules-Strauss feel that the solution to the BAU’s problems is to assign a probationary agent with no qualifications to an elite team? Hmmm…Is this some tactic to undermine Hotch since he’s her arch nemesis? (I’m joking).
I wish there was more Hotch and Rossi in this episode, but not everyone is going to be able to get equal screen time in every episode. I did like their interaction at the beginning as Hotch confided to Rossi. However, Rossi just seemed to disappear halfway through the episode. Here’s a thought. Give Ashley’s screentime to Rossi, since I love his profiling style and he’s more qualified. I hope to see Hotch interacting more with the team in future episodes, but I get that he has to hold his emotions in check, since he is their leader and it is his job to provide guidance and leadership and instill confidence to the team. I strongly believe Hotch knows Emily is still alive and it will be interesting to see if he privately struggles to keep that knowledge of the team in the face of their grief.
This brings me to poor Emily. We got a quick shot of her photo at the beginning and Penelope mourning. But that was it. I guess the team was so focused on work they didn’t have time for personal grief. I believe next episode the team will enter grief counseling, and I am relieved to hear that. This team just lost a beloved member and you don’t recover from that quickly. Hell, the episode after Gideon abandoned them dealt with his absence more than this episode dealt with Emily’s. And it still was jolting to see Paget’s absence in the opening credits and cast photo. They didn’t even take a new cast photo. They just photo shopped Paget out of it like the photo shopped Rachel into it.
All in all, I felt this was an episode with a good amount of profiling and character interaction, while also being very creepy and unsettling.
Atticus,
I did notice that but it was still a cheap shot in getting audience members to like SEaver.
Also, since the cast members themselves are giving us fans hope that our the real ladies of CM may be coming back, well, thats one more reason to not give up. Also, we dont have to accept the current writers bad writing because most of us on the board seem to be smart and perceptive and understand what CM is about.
Really love TG's interview and I think that he is seriously hoping to get his real Hotch character back and may even be an advocate for AJ and paget. Though with Paget, the ball really seems to be in her court now.
At least get rid of Seaver!
Just wanted to say not to compare the Rachel Nichols/ Ashley Seaver dislike to celebrities like Lindsay Lohan and Britney Spears. Lindsay and Britney are both stupid chicks who seriously need to get into rehab, stay and let people help them instead of constantly feeding the paparazzi. No one really hate them. Though neither can actually act or sing. The point is, those girls are obviously different than RN and i have never heard any valid sources claim that they tried to commit suicide. That was all paparazzi bs.
RN seems like a great person in real life who has the misfortune of playing a terrible character on a great show and being a bad actress, or at least one that does not fit in any way, shape, form or rewrite or retcon or whatever on CM.
And hopefully once she leaves, RN will probably get anew job based on her pretty eye candy looks and sweet demeanor and probably an endorsement deal. So I really dont feel bad for her. She's an actress, its Hollwood it comes along with the territory.
You dont see people defending AJ and paget with pity pleas to bring them back.
We all have valid please to want JJ and Emily back. They fit and they were great actresses, the show is sucking without them, their characters are still needed and are irreplaceable.
Seaver is a bs character who makes no sense whatsoever.
Adressing Writers: Why do you mess with fans like this? so many things we're not happy about; like Prentiss gone and Seaver being there, do you really think sending a message to the audience through Morgan is gonna make us like her? 3/4 of the viewers don't accept the character, the rest simply is oblivious to her presence.
Being a Morgan/Garcia fan, I find it lame on your part to drag the story of Kevin Lynch with Garcia to this point and say he's still there. it sucks, it's really getting old. It's obvious Morgan and Garcia are in love with each other, if you don't want to rush things, i get it if they can't get together now but at least put a closure to Garcia's relationship with Lynch. I tell you now; it pissed off every Morcia fan to hear from him again. Congratulations in disappointing your followers.
I apologize for seeming harsh probably to those who read this but I’m just saying "please, CM writers fix your mess or at least some of them"
For those who are feeling nostalgic about Prentiss, let’s just pray Paget would decide to come back next season.
I admit I faded in and out of the episode last night but I keep hearing people say that Kevin Lynch was mentioned. Was it a phone conversation or was he just simply mentioned? I don't want to see any kind of romance between any of the team mates, they are family and should remain so. What I do find odd is that Garcia and Kevin seemed to be an item and then he just disappeared.
I do agree with what others have said here. The show is missing something big in the combined loss of AJ and Paget also with this unsub focused writing. I liked when CM gave you suspense in riding along with the team as they discovered the unsub, not like now where almost half of the episode is dedicated to the unsub. I find that a lot of the suspense is gone for me now. All I will say about Seaver is what people have said here already.
I hope that the CM ladies can and will return along with the wonderful, suspenseful writing that made me fall in love with Criminal Minds.
P.S. I CBS values TG and SM enough to give them a fair shake in their contracts.
Optika,
There are a lot of people who don't like Seaver, but you seem to have a special...bitterness that goes beyond what is appropriate for a fictional television character. Seriously, if you go back and look at all your comments, you will realize that they are almost all venomously anti-Seaver, and they all pretty much say the same thing.
I'm all for different opinions, but when the same people are saying the same thing over and over in one thread, it brings a certain negativity to the thread that leaves a bad taste. That goes for both pro and anti-Seaver people, but it seems only the pro-Seavers have been called out on it so far.
@ Fedra - I hope "The Thirteenth Step" was as bad as it ever gets, or I'll be getting Disappointedly Confused if I have to make further name changes!
@ Anonymous (one of them!). I should have been more specific. I was referring to the minority who apparently have been sending nasty tweets to Rachel Nichols blaming her for the AJ & Paget fiasco and the fact that she's portraying a naff (i.e. "lame") character on the show.
Personally, at present I think the character is a waste of a role as she just doesn't "fit" (I can't think of a better word) the ethos of the BAU. That may change in the future depending on how the role is developed.
The vast majority of us are able to differentiate between fiction and real life, but sadly a few others seem to lack this ability. I respect the fact that some people love the Seaver character while others loathe her, I'd use the word "disappointed" to describe my feelings towards her addition. However, I've seen people on here and especially on other forums get quite "arsey" about other people expressing opinions from the extreme ends of the spectrum, which they vehemently disagree with.
I've never seen Rachel Nichols in anything else so can't comment on her acting ability. The Seaver character seems rather wooden to me; could be bad acting, bad writing or a combination of both? I'm not clued up enough to fully comment. I also know nothing about what Rachel Nichols is meant to be like in real life, so can't comment on that either.
On the subject of the episode, my Mum found it online (crafty!) and watched this afternoon. She came up with the idea that the writer(s) was trying to show Reid wasn't secoming chizophrenic because he can switch off and fall sleep - on the jet in this case - whereas Ben had to kill people to get tired enough to beat his insomnia and fall asleep. I apologise if anyone's said this already, I did read through the other comments which had already been left, but I may have missed the odd thing.
To conclude: Honestly? I'd rather have JJ & Prentiss than Seaver.
** Sighs hopefully that one day they return **
** Becoming schizophrenic **
(Makes mental note to improve proof-reading skills)
LaShawna, was there a second part to your review? It says continued at the end, but I do't see anything after that post.
I menat to type "don't."
Blimey Limey, I think I need to make the same mental note, or maybe it is the fact that I am in desperate need of some more coffee.
@ Cindy - I know what you mean, there's too much blood in my caffeine stream tonight!
...(cont)
I definitely felt like Morgan’s line to Penelope about Emily wanting everybody to accept Ashley was aimed squarely at the fans who don’t like this character. Why would Emily feel the need to say something like that to the team? The BAU welcomed Ashley from day one. It was good to see Hotch express reservations about Ashley to Rossi, but that was a conversation that should have happened in “25 to Life.” The team DOES need an experienced profiler now that Emily is gone and Hotch acknowledged that Ashley isn’t it. Of course you wouldn’t know that by the way she was talking. I guess she must have went and read all the textbooks since the last case. If this was real life, someone new would have been brought in to the BAU already, but that wouldn’t work right now with the show. I am not an Ashley fan, and still feel like her placement on the team is full of weak justification. Now the writers are pinning her placement on Strauss. Is that because the writers couldn't come up with a suitable reason why Hotch would want her assigned to the team as her first assignment fresh out of the Academy? Why exactly would Strauss-strict, bureaucratic, by the rules-Strauss feel that the solution to the BAU’s problems is to assign a probationary agent with no qualifications to an elite team? Hmmm…Is this some tactic to undermine Hotch since he’s her arch nemesis? (I’m joking).
I wish there was more Hotch and Rossi in this episode, but not everyone is going to be able to get equal screen time in every episode. I did like their interaction at the beginning as Hotch confided to Rossi. However, Rossi just seemed to disappear halfway through the episode. Here’s a thought. Give Ashley’s screentime to Rossi, since I love his profiling style and he’s more qualified. I hope to see Hotch interacting more with the team in future episodes, but I get that he has to hold his emotions in check, since he is their leader and it is his job to provide guidance and leadership and instill confidence to the team. I strongly believe Hotch knows Emily is still alive and it will be interesting to see if he privately struggles to keep that knowledge of the team in the face of their grief.
This brings me to poor Emily. We got a quick shot of her photo at the beginning and Penelope mourning. But that was it. I guess the team was so focused on work they didn’t have time for personal grief. I believe next episode the team will enter grief counseling, and I am relieved to hear that. This team just lost a beloved member and you don’t recover from that quickly. Hell, the episode after Gideon abandoned them dealt with his absence more than this episode dealt with Emily’s. And it still was jolting to see Paget’s absence in the opening credits and cast photo. They didn’t even take a new cast photo. They just photo shopped Paget out of it like the photo shopped Rachel into it.
All in all, I felt this was an episode with a good amount of profiling and character interaction, while also being very creepy and unsettling.
LOL.. and I just noticed that I misspelled the word "meant." Maybe I should switch over to tea :)
Please don't get rid of anymore characters!!! And if Reid goes I go (or Garcia) ... we need a little bit of comic relief
@ Cindy - Come and join the tea-drinkers, you know you want to... ;-))
On the subject of comic relief, I laughed (not sure if I was meant to) at the scene near the end where Ben was hallucinating that Reid was telling him to stab him in the neck. MGG's delivery of the line when he was fully facing the camera was priceless.
MGG is such a great actor.. killer facial expressions, er, maybe I shouldn't have used the word "killer," maybe wonderful would be better in this context :)
I liked the episode .It was a nice solid CM ep and that was what I needed after the not so much CM-like Prentiss spy arc. The case was interesting, although there were a little too many unsub scenes. I liked that Reid`s story line was nicely merged with the case and did not take away from it or the other characters. I liked most of the team interaction scenes. I liked Morgan looking out for Garcia, Seaver and I specially loved Reid and Morgan. There were some great profiling scenes and the atmosphere of the episode was nicely creepy. Looking forward to the next episode.
It's obvious that Morgan and Garcia are in love? I've never gotten that vibe. I think she's way more into him than he'll ever be into her.
Final Numbers:
Criminal Minds
- 13.048 million viewers
- 7.8/12 HH
- 3.5/9 A18-49
In skimming thru posts over the past several hours, I can say that the reference to Kevin was at the very beginning cupcake scene, when Morgan questioned Garcia where the "t" and "e" for Graduate were and she responded that Kevin had eaten them. Morgan also cautioned her against "staring" at Prentiss' picture, that Emily wouldn't want her to sulk and that she would also want the team to "embrace Seaver." Did not like hearing this out of the mouth of Morgan, Emily's "partner" - did not ring true to me.
Then, Garcia made some comment that I didn't quite make out about "testosterone": maybe like with the loss of two female agents, there was now too much testosterone? Maybe someone else caught it.
A scene following includes just Rossi and Hotch who is on the phone, presumably a business call. He hangs up & remarks to Rossi that he cannot accept Strauss thinking it's OK to him to accept a "probationary" agent; that she has potential but that the team needs "an experienced profiler now."
Blimey Limey, I want to check to make sure that you have GREEN tea in that porcelain cup of yours - I would not want your health to suffer. You know that in the states,it's become quite fashionable to drink green tea, altho' we won't let on to our coffee guzzling cohorts: right, Cindy?? Hah...that will be the day she says, as she swaggers back to kitchen to ice the dregs in the pot. Thank God it is 86 degrees here in sunny So. Cali and a little sugar and cream will help her choke it down...:)
sf81387 said...
"It's obvious that Morgan and Garcia are in love? I've never gotten that vibe. I think she's way more into him than he'll ever be into her."
Thanks for that. I too never got that vibe. Also thanks for the ratings info.
I love all Morgan and Garcia moments this season, keep 'em coming pleeease.
Hilarious scene of MGG acting as a hallusination lol! "just Stab me in the neck with it and all your problems will go away" it was soo funny.
Woohoo! Great ratings last night! Looks like all the doom and gloom post-Prentiss predictions were wrong.
In terms of episode quality, I thought it was the best episode since "Coda," and one of the best this season. Loved the little moments of humor with Morgan, Garcia, Seaver, and creepy Reid.
I don't think there were any doom and gloom predictions, at least not from the majority, and this was the first episode without Prentiss. I'm not saying that the ratings will drop, I don't think they will, but there are 5 episodes left for the season. I would like to see how things go from here. I don't think much will change, maybe a dip, but still would like to see.
Thanks for the answer gubegirl! I guess then that Garcia and Kevin are still dating but he has been MIA forever. Was weird that he wasn't at Prentiss' funeral if they are still dating as he was there for Haley's funeral, then again, Prentiss' mom wasn't even at her funeral. Maybe the actor that plays Kevin is busy working on another project.
I've just read all those comments. got to answer the latter about Lynch:the actor's not busy, they just didn't bother to cast him at all, and how is it that this season each time he's mentioned or as in epi 4 , she actually snapped at him, this time she complained he stole two cupcakes. he's fading. it's not normal to have him absent at Prentiss' funeral and Penelope getting closer and closer to Morgan this season. I think Kevin'll be gone for good soon and i will be really glad if he did.
Really starting to enjoy seaver...
It's always hard when we lose characters that have grown in their roles and we look forward to seeing every week, but the powers that be have decided and as loyal fans we should try to embrace the new characters and give them a chance to come into the team's dynamic instead of judging and comparing.
TPTB have made completely unwarranted and ridiculous decisions with regard to this show. So, excuse me if I don't "embrace" what I believe is their latest ridiculous decision and that is the addition of Seaver character into the show. If this character is still around come season 7, the only thing I'll be embracing is my remote to change the channel.
This episode was too much like Blood Hunger with Derailed thrown in. At least it did have good scenes for MGG to do some great acting. But for me, it was at the cost of making Reid appear more unsettled,using emotional, sweeping generalizations which is out of character with his usual logical statistical self.
The story of his headaches still has not progressed with no definitive or organic answers so I hope a future episode will delve more deeply. Otherwise, the fans are taken for yet another ride in the bumpiness of an uneven season 6.
Hmm, wonder if Jacob would embrace TPTB decision if they chose to write the Seaver character out of the show.....
Agreed, there have been many bad decisions this year:
1. Seaver
2. putting Hotch (lead, like it or not) into the background for the WHOLE season
3. getting rid of our ladies
4. too much Morgan&Garcia.
5. thinking that the fans will be placated by stupid lines and continue to tune in anyway.
News for CM/CBS: hotch/tg goes and this is the last cm season for me. He's my favorite character and you've done no justice to him at all this year, not even 1 episode. Prentiss was my 2nd favorite and we've seen how that worked out...
I was really impressed by tonight's episode. The Ben and his hallucinations were all excellent.
I'm glad to see Seaver is learning from the more experience members of the team, and is asking questions when she doesn't understand something,
It was nice to see the whole cast get decent screen time after being force-fed 40 minutes of Prentiss the past 4 episodes.
Lord, some people don't handle change well. This is like the great Casey Novak debate of 2003. After Diane Neal took over for Stephanie March on Law & Order: SVU, fans were livid. For about a year, all we heard was how terrible the character was, how she had no business trying cases, blah blah blah. Then to add insult to injury, we had to listen to people personally attack Diane Neal. But they never once said anything constructive about her acting abilities.
I get how angry people are about what happened to A.J. and Paget. I found out and b*tched up a storm. I signed the petition, wrote several e-mails/letters to CBS and even threw in a little social networking for good measures. As time went on, I had to accept the fact that what's done is done. Mind you, I am not happy about it and never will be.
Rachel's apart of the show now. If you can't stomach it why even bother watching? Especially since it's blatantly obvious that some of you are dissatisfied with a lot more than the casting changes. Why subject yourself to this "torture"? Is masochism your thing?
Just like A.J. and Paget, Nichols has no control over what the show does with her character. She's just an actor trying to do her job. And personally, as a performer I find her rather acceptable. I do agree that she could be given better material to work with. But again, that's not on her but rather the writers. Is their room to grow, heck yeah. But people need to remember she's only been on the show for a few episodes. Give her time for cripes sakes. All it takes in one episode to turn it around. That's what happened with Casey Novak.
Also, stop saying that Ashley is trying to replace J.J. The only thing the characters have in common is blond hair. They are two completely different entities. Not to mention, Rachel has NO intentions of being A.J. Jr. She is her own person. Kirsten V. said it herself. And we all know Kirsten V. does not tell lies!
It's okay to be bitter about how this whole situation went down. Trust me I know. Bitter party of one! But some of you are misdirecting your anger at the wrong people.
It's nice that Rachel has been promoted to a series regular. I just wish it hadn't come at the expense of A.J. and Paget. But that's CBS for you, always with their heads up their assets. I swear they are getting as bad as ABC in terms of decision making.
I'm sorry Jennifer but you don't speak for me. Am I upset about AJ and Paget, hell yes, I am, but that is not the reason that I have an issue with the Seaver character. I and others have gone into great length why we have issues with this character that I won't get into again here. Pick a thread any thread and you will see what those reasons are. Personally, if this character were worth half a lick, I'd give it a chance one million times over, but it is not, so I am not. Nor do I think it is acceptable for people to just sit idly by and say nothing while asinine decisions like adding this character on the show are made. If you don't voice what you personally believe is wrong with a situation, the situation will continue as is. Now, will the people who have voiced concern over Seaver or any other matter be taken into consideration, I don't know, but that is not going to influence whether I say something or not about this character or any other thing I find lacking with the show (for me that would also include the writing). I say these things because I love this show and want it to be as fantastic as I believe it used to be before TPTB came in and bulldozed it. If I didn't care about the show, I would have switched off a long time ago, but I am trying to stick with it because of my love for it. It is that love that drives me to say what I am saying now and what I have said in the past.
With regard to misdirecting anger, I don't know whom you are speaking of with respect to that, but what I have said comes out of what I believe and that is that the Seaver character is a total non- fit for the show and the fact that the actresses portrayl is wooden does not help. This is my opinion, my perception and I will continue to say that until I feel I no longer want to expend my energy in this direction.
Marleny:
You speak for MANY of us.
This is disappointment and frustration on the part of a very devoted following of a really quality show; we are not a bunch of spoiled, hateful brats. We were enjoying a great show, with excellent acting and stories that challenged our brains for a
solid 5+ years. We miss that and that's all we're trying to convey here, because we want to get it back.
Marleny, Thank you.
Anonymous 44
Yeah you think that she is wooden. Rachel is a very capable actress she has shown that countless of times. You just can't see passed it because you are to invested in Paget and AJ
I agree fully with Jennifer here
I completely agree with you jennifer. I was initially upset about AJ and Paget and I still am but I am able to still enjoy the show. I'm not understanding why others are still watching the show when they clearly are not enjoying it. Seaver is still not my favorite but I'm able to move past it even if it means not paying much attention to her although she's annoying me much anymore. I'm still enjoying the show. I particularly enjoyed this episode, it was really well done.
I just don't understand why every thread turns into a Seaver one. I personally think that her character is given way too much attention. The show is about all the characters. I think the show is still good and that's why I sill continue to watch. I would love it if AJ and Paget came back but I still like the show and will continue watch it. It's a show and it's meant to be entertaining so if it's no longer serving that purpose why continue to watch. I know that the minute stop enjoying the show, I will stop watching.
Victor, I'm sorry but you can't presume to know what I think. I've stated what my opinion is and that is what it is. If you think she is a great actress, good for you. I think she is wooden in this show, in Alias, and in the short lived The Inside.
This forum is to discuss the episode and aspects of the show which includes characters. If people have an issue with a particular character or a group of characters, they should voice that here and wherever else they have the opportunity to. People say things not to just say things but because they are passionate about it and want to see things change. The fact that they want it to be entertaining for them again is why they take the time to write stuf here and elsewhere. If people didn't care, they wouldn't take the time to say something.
Blimey Limey said...
To conclude: Honestly? I'd rather have JJ & Prentiss than Seaver.
I'd rather have *anybody* than Seaver. She's so horrible. Not to mention, the actress can barely act. She's like flat soda on the screen. I find it sad I can live with the show without JJ and Emily, but can't live with it with Seaver.
Here's hoping they show her the door at the end of the season, even if JJ and/or Prentiss don't come back. Rachel Nichols already has GI Joe 2 to look forward to in terms of jobs.
Jennifer, you got some balls!
I just wish we could have a bit of peace. When I said above that I don't like TG's acting, I wasn't meaning to attack him or Hotch, or to call out those (very eloquent defences) of him but rather to point out that we all have characters/actors that we don't 'get' and yet we are not all trying to spoil the show for others by talking about it constantly. If everyone were to bitch about their unfavourites to the writers, the casting directors, cbs and each other, it would be unbearable. And futile.
Can I ask an unloaded question?
To the people who are vehemently opposing RN and posting this same opinion many times over: do you believe that Bernero et al have not already heard your opinion and processed it?
UK viewer
PS Better to be positive about what we like and want so I say Give Us Some Rossi!
Uk viewer, the same question could be asked of the individuals who are ready to attack people by calling them things like "haters" that don't agree that the Seaver character and RN's acting aren't the best thing since sliced bread. As this character is appearing in episodes, critiques about the character and the presentation of the character are to be expected.
Bottom line, people need to make a point, be respectful about it, be able to deal with people eho don't agree that the Seaver character and/or RN's acting aren't great, or the reverse, and move on.
I'm intrigued by the fact that Strauss has now dictated that Seaver will stay on the team. Remember when Strauss tried to force Prentiss to spy on the team and report back to her? I'm sure Hotch remembers, too.
Jacob said:
... but the powers that be have decided and as loyal fans we should try to embrace the new characters and give them a chance to come into the team's dynamic instead of judging and comparing.
Jacob, I appreciate your comment and can accept that you like this character. But...TPTB don't decide what I have to do as far as my TV viewing goes...I do. And...I don't like or want this character on this show. If she was going to 'come into the team's dynamic' she would have already done so or given a hint that she could fit in. She doesn't - at all! And I'm afraid at this point she never will - not with any amount of decent writing (which they haven't had for the other cast members this season, I don't know why they would start now!)
So....after this past Wed I will not be watching CM again on Wed nights until they get their 'stuff' together and get the show that we've all grown to love back on track.
But...again, I do appreciate your positive comment. I just don't agree with it.
UK viewer, i agree with your last comment about everyone being drawn to a certain type/acting style/character, although my view on TG is diametrically opposite to yours. Which is what makes it all so lively and vital. No problem with that. The Seaver discussion is wearing thin and i think the PTB have got the message by now. What they do, or don't do, about it is a different matter altogether, but i think the message has been conveyed. i for one would love for us to discuss other aspects of the show. and i might be holding a contrarian view when it comes to the music, by which i specifically mean the incidental music. It's too loud in my opinion and tries too hard to make us feel/respond to a scene in a particular way. gah, if i wanted that kinda music, i'd go watch some terrible horror flick. i think CM would benefit from a little silence. I'd really like someone else's opinion on this. thanks, all. cheers PS: I liked this episode
Lin from Ohio, I'm thinking there might be more than meets the eye with Strauss suggesting Seaver. I bet there are tons of agents that have a boat load of experience and qualifications to be on the BAU that have submitted their applications to Strauss throughout the years for consideration (it seems like the applicants have to reach Strauss' desk first, then she hands them over to Hotch) and so sticking some probationary agent in there is off the charts and way out of character for someone like Strauss who is the rule and procedure woman; not to mention, she always seems to have an agenda. Clearly, Seaver is out of her depth experience and qualifications wise to be on such an elite and specialized team. Strauss is strictly by the book and would not just give a chance for someone who is not experienced enough to be on the team a chance to give it a whirl at the BAU, nor is Hotch, er, well, at least not the way that he has always been written. Hotch's comment to Rossi about Seaver was totally in character for him and I appreciated seeing that in this episode, along with him playing a little more of a role in the investigation. I adored the Reid and Morgan scene and am so happy that Morgan approached Reid and that opened up to Morgan.
Eleven, that is an interesting observation about the music. I'll have to rewind some of the episodes in my head to analyze the music. It is definitely something that I will look out for now that you mentioned it. Was there a specific episode that you had in mind in terms of the music, or is it just in general? What I don't like in terms of music is the way they changed the theme cong to teh show. It seems louder now with more sirens.
"song" and "the." It is too early and there is no spell check on this site, LOL
I think sometimes the music is there to stop what we're seeing from being too horrible. If it were like newsreel and we saw that violence just coming out of ordinary street scenes, it would be unwatchable. Perhaps the horror show music directs us to feel the appropriate tension and anxiety but it sort of lets us turn off moral shock or natural fear. By this, I mean I agree with you about the silence, but it would be a much much harder show to watch.
Interesting debate Eleven!
My contrarian view is that I'd love to have more slowness or even stupidity built into the analyses. Sometimes the answers come so quickly that you're left unable to realise the emotions or the personal meanings for people. Eg when Reid spotted the body print next to the old lady and guessed that the man had slept there. That was weird and upsetting and genuinely arresting but he got the answer in a drumbeat: Insomnia. If they'd stared at the spot in bemusement or disgust or fear or horror, it would have made the moment more felt somehow. I know it's a show about finding answers as quick as poss, and finding the killers before they kill again but the writers could get more energy into the investigation by having the team struggle harder for their answers.
UK viewer
Eleven,
As for the music, I have to admit that I don't really pay that much attention but I do know that others have commented (on other boards) asking questions about what the song is, who sings/wrote it, etc. I'll have to pay closer attention.
I agree, also, that the Seaver comments are wearing thin but I think it's just such an emotional issue with long-time/hardcore fans that things need to be vented. I hope that it will run its course and TPTB will make the right choice with her character (hint, hint - GET RID OF HER).
I watched Masterpiece last night and since it showcases Rossi more, it's one of my favorites. LOVE the next to last scene where Rossi grabs the unsub (Jason Alexander) and pushes him up against the window and gives him what for!!! Rossi is the man!
God I love this show and want it back!
Tia, the music in general. The Season 6 theme is certainly not a good change. Don't like it. I love the songs they use - eg, Cash, Cohen, etc, but yeah the background music irks me (in Corazon it well nigh deafened me) - i find it childish. I have always found Minds more adult than the CSIs, the Mentalist, Bones, etc; so i would be interested in the potential change of 'feel' if the music were to be less predictable. Don't think they would ever use music on Minds as they do on 'The Wire' (the other extreme i admit), but a bit of toning down would go a long way. Loved the music in Coda, Ashes and Dust (that heart-rending scene at the beginning), 100 (Hotch at home looking for the Reaper - actually nowt wrong with 100 imo :-)) for example.
Nanci, true, Rossi is the man! There's loads about Masterpiece to love. And that's what I mean in a way about slowness (in post above). It's really terrific in that episode that you can't (even on rewatch) decide what Rossi knows and what he doesn't know at any stage in the interrogation. He either is, or lets himself appear to be, vulnerable before the guy, as well as before his superior, and it draws the unsub out. I really really love the uncertainty, largely because it's right in time with the action. CM is at its best at moments like that, IMO. (Plus it showcases Rossi.)
UK viewer
UK viewer,
I know what you mean. When I first saw this ep, I truly believed Rossi was vulnerable!!! I remember saying (to the TV screen) - 'what wrong with you? Why are you acting that way" since it was so out of character for a man of Rossi's level. That was superb acting on JM/DR's part! I didn't realize what he was doing til the end - maybe I'm slow...?!
That's what I miss about the current season - it's just seemed so fragmented this year. That's what kept me watching and held my interest - the way they went about discovering (and explaining to the audience) the unsub.
Excellent episode - More Rossi!
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