Criminal Minds spoiler thread for "With Friends Like These..." starring Joe Mantegna, Thomas Gibson, Shemar Moore, Matthew Gray Gubler and Kirsten Vangsness.
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507 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 400 of 507 Newer› Newest»Ooo you clever thing you, Nanci. Didn't work out who DR was in 'superb acting from JM/DR' at first -- but you're exactly right. It was JM acting DR acting. Lovely stuff to see that subtlety given to a guy who can be excitingly brisk.
Yes, More Rossi! And then some more.
UK viewer
Eleven: A new subject! Hallelujah!
Some excellent choices have been made. One that comes to mind immediately is Damaged: the epi where each team member seems to be hurting somehow by the end of the show, and Hotch is served is divorce papers, I think.
The song is "Broken" by Lifehouse.
When you google the lyrics to this song, you will be reminded of all the team has suffered at that time and it makes you identify and empathasize so much more. I had to download this song and play it over and over and came to love Lifehouse so much. Jason Wade's sensitive, breathy voice is so poignant I can feel it as I type this...
I am very into music (I jazzercise and we get to hear new stuff all the time - ready to go to dance right now!) and what a great job it would be to select the music for a show? It can help tell the story so much more effectively.
Can't wait to discuss this further: thanks, Eleven for the great idea. We so-o- needed a change of venue here!
For the Hotch fans - just saw this on insidetv.ew - just quoting a tiny portion (hope that's not flouting any rules). I like TG's take on Hotch - 'But how does Gibson envision a derailed Hotch? “There are so many ways for that to manifest itself. He doesn’t, I think, have a whole lot of indulgence of his own for any of the weight that he carries. To a certain extent, that’s one of his flaws. He would rather ignore it, and of course, you can’t ignore it forever.”'
Nanci and UK viewer - i really like Rossi/JM, too (fist-pumping Seaver - erm, not so much). I don't think there's anything wrong with a character-centric episode. has been happening on CM for ever. Heck, Season 1 was all Gideon. But they had a nice balance....but now they have written themselves in such a corner because of casting decisions that the balance has been lost. Anyhoo, long post, sorry!
I was hoping I wasn't confusing anyone - love me some JM/DR -
We think alike - more Rossi please! And lots of it - he's been missed lately.
Damaged was also a good Rossi ep with him going back to Indiana to figure out who killed the children's parents. Loved the hotel bar scene when he asked "why do you care" and Emily said "because YOU do"....what a great scene! Such a wonderful combination of personalities, they all blended so well together.
Also loved the Reid/Hotch scenes with the soon to be executed convict. Very intense with both Hotch and Reid trying to defuse the situation with the convict (and I'm sorry I'm awful with names).
It was just a great episode with several storylines and I really enjoy watching those.
Eleven,
Thanks for the quote from the interview. I see Hotch as such a strong personality. I know some seem to think it's a weakness but I don't. As the team leader they all look to him to 'set the tone' and he does an amazing job at balancing everyone.
Saying that, I would love to see an ep with Hotch maybe losing it a bit - not totally derailed but that would be interesting to see someone of his 'strength' start to come undone. He's been thru alot with losing Haley, JJ and now Prentiss....it's a bit much for anyone.
Glad to see there are more Rossi lovers - I think he's been pushed into the background lately, same as with Hotch. Hope that changes.
Please CM/writers - let's get back to what once was.
Gubegirl, I'm not as conversant with the current music scene as you are, but i agree with you about the songs used - no problem with the songs; i love them (it's the other bits that i cannot stand). 'Damaged' - ahhhhhhh, what's not to like. Reid's doing his 'best work under intense terror' and hotch nearly losing it, Rossi's becoming part of the team. 'twas nice. and yes that song at the end was fab. such incredible loneliness - also connects with the end quote in the S4 finale, doesn't it - 'sometimes there are no words ... to neatly sum up what's happened that day.....sometimes the day just ends".
They should use more Jazz and Classical. would be cooool. and black & white photography (good grief, maybe i'm just old).
Nanci, I love the whole team of Season 5. They're like my second family (i need a life), but Hotch is my guilty pleasure. I like 'em damaged ;-) Yep, and he hasn't actually lost it since 100. Would be good to see that (as TG says as well - maybe he should write one episode for himself, as should all the others - who would know their characters more). ha ha, there's a thought - the unsubs mystery bit by others but the character bits by the actors themselves. sheesh, 42mins is not nearly enough, is it.
I think black and white photography would be great for some of the crime scene/victim photos. Sometimes black and white photography is more gripping visually than color photography.
I know what you mean, I need a life, too, apparently! Unfortunately, after Wed night's ep I may have to find one. I just don't think I can watch anymore of this season.
Your comment about TG maybe writing an ep for himself - what a great idea! Would LOVE to see a season of that...I bet those would be some really great storylines. Talk about 'secrets'?!
Oh, now you're talking... Damaged was such clever writing. The children's voices coming through the open window and Chester Hardwick (the death row unsub) wanting to open the window 'to smell the air one last time'. Bernero just left that connection there to resonate. Like Reid's assessment that the unsub 'never had a chance' alongside the fairground clown's big helplessness and his 'Daddeeeeey, Daddeeeeey' at the end (just like the children's voices through the open window). Those resonances goes round and round and round. You don't expect CM stories to be plaintive at that level. Such a terrific episode, particularly when you think it was so quickly written. Loved all the team moments.
Was a bit eek at Kevin's nudity but I got over it.
Lovely to find so many Rossi fans!!
Eleven, ta for link and what a great interview! He's very wise on Hotch's lack of 'indulgence' for his own suffering. It's interesting cos I think we've also heard TG say in interview that he wants Hotch to be happy again. Happiness plus facing the pain means it's likely to be a lot of good Hotchery coming up. And I'm sure that's the right balance for him. He needs a happy home. Haley-less Hotch got lost a bit.
UK viewer
Anonymous said...
My contrarian view is that I'd love to have more slowness or even stupidity built into the analyses. Sometimes the answers come so quickly that you're left unable to realise the emotions or the personal meanings for people. Eg when Reid spotted the body print next to the old lady and guessed that the man had slept there. That was weird and upsetting and genuinely hat was weird and upsetting and genuinely arresting but he got the answer in a drumbeat: Insomnia.
I disagree about both parts: 1) going slower on analysis. That's one of the main things I hate about Seaver, that she drags the storyline down and nearly brings it to a full stop so that everyone can explain things to her - especially things that are already known to the viewer. They're not even throwaway lines, like they used to use the LEOs for. Now it's specific long conversations that just waste our time.
Also, I had no problem with Reid automatically figuring out the insomnia, because it's Reid. He'd just driven Morgan nuts mere seconds early by automatically knowing the body was stabbed 71 times with only a mere glance.
Glenda, yes. In fact if we have Eleven's silence, your black and white photography, and my slowness, we can happily move CM to Sweden. Haha! But I absolutely agree with you on the intimacy and toughness of b and w. Gritty.
UK viewer
I don't have a problem with Reid figuring it out, Blue Sunflower. He's Reid. He's rapid. But it's not that I'm talking about. it's the feel of the story-telling really, the pace of the camera or of realisation. It needn't have been given to Reid to make that happen. It could have been Cop no.3, or anyone. It's just that element of human pity or ordinariness that if it were there would give a bigger sense of the harm the unsubs can bring to life. In this case, the pity would be for Ben too.
Sleep is so familiar -- and to find your peace there!? It's an extraordinary idea that they could have made a great deal out of. It was striking any way even without. But me = idealist/greedy for better.
UK viewer
I liked this ep,totally didn't see it coming that the others were hallucinations so that was cool.
I get the issues with the Seaver character but what I don't get is why some people are having a problem with the "we need to..." line in this ep. they were brainstorming as a team, how else would it be phrased?!
I come to post here hoping that TPTB will read it.
SEAVER: I have to say, upon second viewing, she is not as bad.
But RACHEL NICHOLS has got to stop acting so apologetic and own this character already.
She is a cadet, she has no experience blah blah blah… Doesn't matter, the character was created that way, it’s here for 9 episodes already, so that’s that.
Show us some layer and some personality, flash her out and stop acting so submissive and out of place, it's disconcerting.
You are part of the team now, own that by being much more than a cadet.
To the fans: Do you really want Ed to take her out and try to create another character? Really? Because I'd rather work with what we have than have to accept another rushed thought-of character or maybe a 7th character.
This show works better with 6.
The thing is, I don't think Paget will come back, she has a very promising pilot. Especially after the ridiculous over the top exit for her character.
The thing is, I can complain and b*tch and moan about the show, but I still love it, so I want to see it working out as good as they can with what they have. If we have Seaver, let's work it out already and go back to profiling more, less guns, and how about start working with Hotch's issues?
/done
Anonymous said...
I don't have a problem with Reid figuring it out, Blue Sunflower. He's Reid. He's rapid. But it's not that I'm talking about. it's the feel of the story-telling really, the pace of the camera or of realisation.
I understood what you were staying, and I still disagree.
Jen, it has been reported that Bernero will be stepping down as showrunner for CM. He will be a part of it in some regard, but not fully, so him creating a new character, thankfully, is highly unlikely. Not to mention that he is working on a new pilot for ABC, so I doubt there will be time for him to do anything new character wise.
So, to answer your question, yes, I'd like for them to start from scratch and create a new character, if necessary (if Paget does not decide to return). The issues with this character have been there from the beginning and they are not leaving. This most recent episode highlighted, at least for Hotch, the fact that they need an experienced profiler. If they get one, why in the world would Seaver need to remain there being that she is entirely unfit experience and qualification wise to be part of the BAU. By now, the writers have sense, or they should based on so much feedback, on the type of character should be written into the show.
The music is a great subject Eleven, thanks for brining it up.
Gubegirl, I believe Broken was from the episode In Birth and Death when Strauss accompanied them on the case. Great song, I'd never heard it and had to get it afterwards as well, the same with The Riddle at the end of The Fisher King. I liked when each of these songs played and we got little glimpses of each of the team members after the case. I must admit that it still chokes me up every time I see Hotch go to Elle's apartment to clean the blood off her walls to the strains of the Riddle. I also loved My Side of the Story at the end of Demonology.
I can't say I really pay a lot of attention to the music during the show but I think one of the most dramatic scenes ever on CM had no music at all. The director's choice to have Hotch search his former home for Foyet, Haley or Jack with only the sound of his own jagged breathing was pure genius.
Pat, that Hotch scene was wonderful and it was great that they didn't use any music.
Uk viewer, not quite sure if I am ready to allow CM to move to Sweden just yet :)
Glenda,
From what I remember, it was confirmed that Simon would be leaving and Ed may be leaving too, but not confirmed. Maybe I missed an update, though.
But from what I understood, Hotch meant an experience profiler to add to the team, he didn't say anything about letting Seaver go. So we will get another new profiler with more experience and still keep Seaver? What's the point in crowding this show even more?
That really, all they would have done is exchange AJ and Paget for another blond and brunette.
To be honest, for the moment, I'm just trying to watch the show and enjoy the good moments, ignore the bad and hope for the best.
I guess I'm an optimistic, this week.
To anonymous,
you know who you are, the one who said I have a special bitterness. I don't. I dont go on RN's twitter account and actually rudely tell her on her own personal space that she sucks or anything like that. I dont much care for tha actress at all, I just think she's bad at acting and that she doenst belong on the show.
And I am not the only oneto feel that way. Seaver may be on the team for now, but that doesnt mean she'll stay, especially when there are contract negotiations going on for the readdition of certain cast members. So please stop insulting me.
I think I just word things a bit differetnly than other people but I have read far worse posts here and on other forums so don't call me out on my opinion which is shared by many others.
Damaged was a great episode. I loved when Hotch took of his tie and blazer to get ready to fight the killer and the Reid stepped in. That was my favorite scene.
i like most of the music used in the episodes too. I think they should incorporate more Nine Inch Nails and stuff that really captures the mood. They should come out with a soundtrack for the show.
Does anyone know what song was playing in the season 1 ep "Poison" during the stakeout/arrest scene> Its kind of electric/techno sounding. I've noticed that the early dvds and the early epsidoes have different songs.
It would be a great job, well, two great jobs:
1. coming up with the quotations for top and tail
2. finding the right music
Someone gets paid for this! You'd have to watch the episodes in advance and maybe in their unfinished state to come up with the good stuff.
UK viewer
PS Fair's fair Optika (even from the other side of the tracks). The comment you're talking about was wide of the mark and just wrong, as far as I can see.
My point Jen is that if they do get an experienced profiler (even if they don't) right now Seaver is a probationary agent. Once she is no longer a probationary agent, the protocol is to send her to a field office where she should be for a few years before being able to apply for a spot on the BAU. Really, the protocol should have been not to allow her to stay there period, but now they have mixed Strauss into the fray saying that she can stay there (another inspired out of character writing moment from this character). No way would Strauss have authorized a probationary agent being on the BAU unless she had some agenda because if anything goes wrong, not only will Hotch have to answer for it, so will Strauss as she is the one who authorized this situation. Strauss is a by the book person, excessively so and thus I too think there is something more to this, but time will tell.
Hotch making that statement, I believe, is very important because it acknowledges not only the team's need for an experienced profiler, but it highlights the fact that Seaver is not that person. Maybe it was a red herring to say that this character will not be around season 7 but rather a new character or maybe JJ comes back, or who knows, Paget. But again, I go back to what Hotch said, it was clear and undeniable and unless they go completely off the rails again, I think Hotch is going to continue his search for an experienced profiler. I don't think this will happen this season though. Most likely at the beginning of next season and if that indeed happens, I just don't see that character being around, there would be absolutely no point.
I do feel that they do need to get an experienced profiler to raise the elite status of this unit back to what it once was, there is no reason why they can't do that. If it means creating a new character because Paget will not return, then that is what they need to do. They have done it before (Prentiss and Rossi) they can do it again.
About Ed, it hasn't been confirmed that he is leaving but he is fully entrenched in his new pilot project (he has even set up a Twitter account to promote this new project). It is hihgly, highly doubtful that he will have anything substantive to do with CM on the level of creating a potential new character for CM.
Ed B leaving? That makes me more sorrowful than combined departures of PB and AJ.
UK viewer
There are many songs I have loved and there are 2 I especially love. One is at the end of Demonology when Emily is walking in the snow. I don't know the name. If I did I would buy it on iTunes in a flash. My absolute favourite, though, is "The Funeral" by Band of Horses.It played at the end of "Revelations" as the team found Reid in the cemetary. That last shot of him alone,hunched over, with his arms wrapped aroung himself and his one bare foot still gets to me, even four years later.
Uk viwere, I believe they posted the article on the blog. It is the Deadline article about Simon leaving the show, but in that article it also talks about Ed.
I think he is planning to significantly reduce his dealings with CM as he is working on other projects that will just demand too much of his time to be involved the way a showrunner should be for a show.
Uk viewer, didn't mean to butcher your name in my last post.
I second or third the motion to place a spell check function on this site.
To anonymouses,
please stop picking on me. i was voicing my opinion and you may disagree with it but you cant say that fair is fair or that i am wrong or off the mark. I voiced my opinion just like everyone else voices their opinions and I don't see them getting picked on so just STOP!
Also, you seem to act as if i make the worst comments about Seaver or RN. I dont. If you are going to comment on my comments, please read them carefully and while you're ati it, read others as well becuase there are a lot of people who give reasons as to why Seaver and RN do not belong on the show.
has anyone ever noticed how Rachel Nichols face is kind of crooked?
No, not her face but I noticed she talks with her mouth crooked a lot. I also am bothered by the mole under her eye and her fugly skeletor feet.
Pat-you could be right about "Broken" but I so associate it with the "Damaged" epi that for the longest time, I called it that! That was a tremendous episode (Damaged) as was "Birth and Death" and those kind of songs make them more menorable for me.
So, if I had to choose between jobs offered (hah!) I would
1.) Select the music
2.) Proof the scripts for CHARACTER ACCURACY A-A-G-G-H-H-H!
3.) Select the quotes
4.) Help Reid with his hair:)
Well, OK maybe not in that order, I would do Reid's hair, and then I would...never mind, I am so digressing...let me go back and look at that fine photo at the top one more time...sigh...
BTW, I LOVED that scene in Revelations (when I first became a gubegirl!) and the silence during Hotch's pursuit of the Reaper was brilliant!
Keep it up gang. I am so loving this Seaver-less stuff and it is WAY more fun!
Later.
Ha ha, so the origin of your screen name is finally revealed gubegirl, :)
I love that song "Broken." As soon as I found out the name and the artist, I downloaded it unto my iPod!
Pat, that scene was perfect with no music!
I wonder how they go about selecting the quotes. I love some of the quotes that they have used.
RN does kind of have a crooked face and mouth. She looks prettier in pictures usually.
I noticed that the reason why Seaver and JJ seem to look alike apart from the blonde hair and blue eyes is because the hair and makeup people are making Seaver look like early JJ from the first two seasons. I think that Seaver is even wearing a few of the same shirts that JJ has worn which really bugs me. AJ is def prettier but she looks better in motion. The camera just cant fully caprture how beautiful AJ is.
Also, there have been no Hotch centric episodes this entire season.! Really aggravating!I want my Hotch back and I want him back with a bang. He ages like a glass of fine wine, better and better looking every day! The same goes for MGG.
The show seems so off lately, especially in this episode. Creative refreshing backfired bigtime! It wasnt needed character wise, it was needed story wise. I want to see more eps like Profiler profiled for each of them, and more eps like Tabula Rasa, maybe see how JJ got her job as the liason, see Gideon back for a few episodes, see more of Garcia and Kevin, more background on all the characters except for Seaver becuase she has nothing left to show that would make sense and she seems really judgemental too.
I really want to know more about Hotch and Rossi's old cases, more about why they wanted to become profilers, what drives them, more Hotch and Jack moments, hopefully Morgon and Reid getting girlfriends.
There's alot i would like to see on this show. Its not your typical crime show. Its had some terrible writing especially this season but people really connect with it and its characters and it has a comic con like fandom. They should have a crime-con type of thing. But i oly watch this show, not the spinoff or any of the CSI's or Law and Orders, unless there's a good guest star on.
Glenda, that's the thing, I agree with absolutely everything you said.
But the thing is, is there really a possibility that Seaver will not be coming back next season, or the writers are going the continue ignoring sense and the rules of the universe they created themselves?
Are they listening to the complaining fans? And if they are, assuming that's what that scene with Hotch meant, are they really considering making the adjustments necessaries?
I have no hopes for the rest of the season. So I'll hope that the hiatus between season 6 and 7 can help this show.
And hope that people on CBS don't try to "fix" the show like they did the last time.
It's hard to know what the producers/writers or the network will do with the show over hiatus. I mean none of us saw the AJ/Paget debacle coming. I think a lot hinges on the (hopeful) successful contract negotations with Thomas and Shemar. These things can sometimes drag on for a while. I'm beating a dead horse here, but last year the entire NCIS cast (you know-CBS's highest rated drama and favorite child right now) didn't sign new contracts until the middle of summer.
Either the producers or the network might take a look at the fan reaction this year and make adjustments accordingly. It can and has happened at CBS before (particularly with some of the characters on CSI). If the rumors are true and there is talk of bringing AJ back, that is solely due to the very vocal fan reaction to her firing and the fact that months after the fact, people are still clamoring for her return. This hiatus will be very interesting to watch to see what transpires.
Jen, you have just listed the million dollar questions for CBS and CM.
I also have no hopes for the rest of this season (5 episodes remaining). My only hope lies in the possibility that TPTB at CBS and CM make the necessary adjustments in the time between the hiatus and the beginning of season 7. And I am in complete agreement with you that I hope they don't try and "fix" the show in the same manner as they did before.
I agree with Hotch fan,
Criminal Minds does have a certain kind of fandom that is similar to fans of comic con type of stuff like Star Wars, Batman, Superman, Buffy, etc. It really is a special show and its a little messed up for now but it will get better and AJ and paget will return. I will it!
Wow, LaShawana, I didn't know that about NCIS, the entire cast. I have never watched that show, but wow, they didn't sign contracts until over the summer. That is cutting it pretty close. Was there any reported specific reason as to why that happened?
I really hope that the TG and SM contract situation gets worked out. CBS has done some foolish things with respect to this show, but that would be the final straw that breaks the camels back. I am hoping that all of the necessary adjustments be made during the hiatus. It will certainly be an interesting hiatus.
Optika, please read my PS again. I was agreeing with you. The comment you were talking about was unfair to you. I was trying to be decent in an ecumenical kinda way
;o)
UK Viewer
Optika, please read my PS again. I was agreeing with you in saying that comment someone made was unfair. Didn`t mean to add to your trouble.
UK Viewer
Optika, please read my PS again. I was agreeing with you in saying that comment someone made was unfair. Didn`t mean to add to your trouble.
UK Viewer
Gosh, I really hope Thomas Gibson< AJ Cook and Paget Brewster all reurn and that Rachel Nichols leaves the show.
Rachel Nichols was great in Alias and she's great in the movies, just saw Meskada and I really thought that she was underused in Meskada, but she royally sucks on Criminal Minds and so does her character and i've seen Ths Inside, same kind of character as Seaver. The Inside had a lot of great ideas that did not flow well the way it was written and the cast did not have a oggd onscreen chemistry either. Rachel Nichols can play the tough chick quite well as she did in Meskada, but she can't play the Clarice Starling type of character if her life depended on it. When it comes to CM, Seaver needs to go.
Liked the episode well enough. Gang violence and peer pressure is an interesting theme to explore outside of a schizophrenics mind. This was a Reid episode. Still need our lovely and tortured but composed team leader back in Hotch, less Garcia becuase I am getting sick of her.
Does anyone think that paget and AJ kind of look alike with different coloring though? The have very similar smiles and hairstyles which is why they kind of look alike to me. I loved their relationship, women being there for each other.
uk viewer said
"My contrarian view is that I'd love to have more slowness or even stupidity built into the analyses. Sometimes the answers come so quickly that you're left unable to realise the emotions or the personal meanings for people. Eg when Reid spotted the body print next to the old lady and guessed that the man had slept there. That was weird and upsetting and genuinely arresting but he got the answer in a drumbeat: Insomnia. If they'd stared at the spot in bemusement or disgust or fear or horror, it would have made the moment more felt somehow. I know it's a show about finding answers as quick as poss, and finding the killers before they kill again but the writers could get more energy into the investigation by having the team struggle harder for their answers."
Yes, to that. The team is way too perfect most of the time. That`s why contrary to most I liked agent Jordan Todd, because she struggled with the job and wasn`t as uber-perfect as the writers made JJ . Just to clarify, I liked JJ and I love AJ Cook.
I just rewatched the episode, and it was interesting to see everything when I knew what it meant (like the first time we see the water) or what was going to happen. It was also interesting that the opening shot and closing shot were about the same. I also found it fascinating to watch the profile evolve from a gang killing, to a single killer on drugs, to a paranoid schizophrenic to an insomniac who kills so he can sleep.
Cindy,
I am not sure what the reasons were for the delay, probably just finalizing contract negotiations such as a payraise or something. I want to say it was late June when the final contract was renegotiated. It was also early July when CSI:NY let their lead actress go. Or it sounds like more precisely they asked her to take a paycut, she said no and left. CBS got real crazy last year with the women on their top shows (CM, CSI:LV, CSI: NY). Hopefully they don't lose their minds this summer.
JI found ordan Todd annoying as hell. But Seaver is even more annoying. In order of annoying scale from most annoying to least annoying:
Ashley Seaver
Kevin Lynch
Jordan Todd
On the subject of CM Music…I’m watching A & E / Extreme Aggressor or The Pilot is on and the music at the start on A & E is not the same as the music on my DVD for the same episode. A couple of weeks ago when Fisher King Pt 1 was on ION I noticed that the closing music for that episode was different, freaked me out a bit. Anyone else notice this?
Two of my favorite songs are The Moment I Said It (Imogen Heap) from the closing scenes of Seven Seconds the song is almost spooky as they sing SMASH, and Mercy (Duffy) from the opening scene of Pleasure is my Business, just fun.
Great subject Eleven, thanks!
Why do people not like Kevin Lynch? I don't have any feelings toward him one way or another, but I've noticed in a couple of posts that people don't like him. Just curious.
I don't think he'll be coming on the show anymore even though he was mentioned in this episode.
Keeping it on the music side, what specific song would people want to hear on the show? I would love to hear "Breathe Me" by Sia.
I don't get it either Sameera, I like him and Penelope as a couple. I also get a kick out of seeing Nicholas and Thomas together. (Psycho Beach Party)
I've never seen that movie Mary J. Is it good? That is an old movie with TG, right?
TG/Hotch like the Beatles...that could be fun!
Yes, Sameera it's from 2001 I think, it was voted one of the top surfer movies on EW. I liked it but I like anything Thomas is in.
I agree with everything My Opinion said so I won't repeat it. Just go read her post.
Anonymous,
The song at the end of Demonology is My Side of the Story by Hodges
I really don't get what anybody got against seaver she is still green behind her ears and is still in development. It seems like many are ignoring that fact and thinks this is how she will be.
News flash this is not how she will be she is still evolving and i gotta a feeling she will evolve into a really great character that is tough as nails.
People really need to give her a chance she is still in development for crying out loud. geez what the hell is wrong with these people were they never new in school or at a job?
Just give it time and she will have chemistry with everyone flying out of her ear.
News flash, the only evolving I want to see is her character off the show. What part of the character is a total fail don't you understand, or perhaps you need to read the countless comments people have made on the subject?
Did you like my tone? No, right. Well, that is how you sounded Anonymous. Look, you can believe that she will be a great character or is one already but others don't, okay, can you accept that? I don't like the character, I think it is a fail and nothing will change that in my eyes. I know you don't agree and that is fine, but please don't make it sound like everyone has got to agree with you. If you have a point, make it and move on, but enough with the sarcastic and nasty overtones towards people who don't agree with your position.
IMHO chemistry is not developed. It's either there or it's not. Seaver doesn't have chemistry with -any- of the other cast members. Not even with her Daddy Rossi.
"On the Seaver issue, I just don't see how they can leave her in the role as they have her, graduate or not. As I said earlier, her acting skills are so weak it makes it hard to follow the story because it is so distracting. And I have not criticized her acting before this epi; I was willing to let her get comfortable in her role (even tho' it made no sense) and now she is several epi's into it (5 or 6?) and there has been absolutely no improvement there. Her presentation is anything but natural and seems so trite and forced. When I said "wooden" I meant it. The emotions that AJ and PB can evoke by just a glance with their eyes/brows cannot be equated by a paragraph out of the mouth of our newbie. Sorry, I am not being mean, I am being honest." (from gubegirl)
YES!! that is exactly it. Thank you for describing exactly what I think too. Especially this part "The emotions that AJ and PB can evoke by just a glance with their eyes/brows cannot be equated by a paragraph out of the mouth of our newbie."
reids girl you can't be serious with Chemistry is not developed
So you could talk to everyone at work or school right away and had instant chemistry give me a break here??
people need to know one another to create chemistry.
And i don't agree with you she doesn't have chemistry with Rossi. She really is starting to have that with him and Morgan now. And soon with the otherswhen she interacts with them more
Reid's Girl - Got to step in for anonymous here. Well Of course you say that. You like AJ and Paget. That is why you can't see anything wrong with them. And that is the truth.
On a certain level I understand what you are saying Anonymous, but the fact is that for many here and in other forums there is no chemistry between them and that character. The character has appeared enough times for that to have been established. There are only 5 more epiosdes left in the season. The fact is she got a lot of screen time this episode and people still don't click with the character and don't want teh character to return season 7. It is most likely not going to happen and that is the main issue along with the characters flaws i.e. rookie in elite and specialized unit, etc.
Anonymous said...
reids girl you can't be serious with Chemistry is not developed
This is TV, not real-life. Actors don't get time to "develop" chemistry with their coworkers. In real-life, TV shows get canceled when actors don't show chemistry from the start.
Other Anonymous, you say that it is because of AJ and Paget, well, I think that is a blanket statement and should not be made, especially not making a statement like "that is the truth" as you have no earthly way of proving that for everyone, and I mean everyone, who has an issue with the character, but it seems like you are sticking with that, so ok, if it is about AJ and PB, then that doesn't change the fact that no connection has been made. In fact, it would be in this characters best interest that it not be about AJ (JJ) and/or PB (Prentiss) because then the character will always be doomed.
Pat - Thank you so much for the title of that song. I am off to look for it now. I really appreciate you taking the time to answer.
To anonymous,
"So you could talk to everyone at work or school right away and had instant chemistry give me a break here??"
No not with everyone. Which is exactly my point. It's there or it's not. You can grow to like somebody. But chemistry is a bang that either happens or doesn't happen right at the outset.
Have you never heard of casting directors bringing in two actors to read to see what kind of chemistry they have? ONE READING. Maybe a couple more after that. Not 7 or 8 ENTIRE EPISODES or however many Seaver has already been in. The chemistry is not there. You are free to think as you wish. But I just don't see it. Sorry.
Blue Sunflower said...
"This is TV, not real-life. Actors don't get time to "develop" chemistry with their coworkers. In real-life, TV shows get canceled when actors don't show chemistry from the start."
Very true Blue Sunflower.
To the many Anonymous folk -- can you please give yourselves names? Just click on "Name/URL" circle at the bottom of this form each time you post. You don't have to register or submit an e-mail address or anything else that would let the government profile you. Call yourself "Un-sub" plus your favorite number, if you like. It would really make conversation easier for all of us. Thanks.
Anonymous said
"And i don't agree with you she doesn't have chemistry with Rossi. She really is starting to have that with him and Morgan now. And soon with the otherswhen she interacts with them more"
I agree with the people who say a rookie shouldn`t be in an elite unit like the BAU. But she is there and I do like the person Ashley Seaver. I also think she has chemistry with Rossi and I liked her scenes with Morgan in "With friends like these".
Zagi, although I don't agree with you with respect to chemistry, I appreciate your tone in stating your opinion. It is very much appreciated and should be the model for sharing an opposing viewpoint. Thank you again.
You're welcome Anonymous, glad I could help. We're all one big...um...er...happy...family here aren't we.
Anonymous, I disagree with you. Please look at earlier threads where people did comment on the actresses acting and the lack of bonding, chemistry however you'd like to phrase it. There was quite a bit of back and forth about that in earlier threads so it shouldn't be hard to track down. The one constant has been the characters complete lack of qualifications and experience to be on the team. That is in every thread that she has been discussed, so again, it shouldn't be hard to find. Perhaps you don't agree with the term chemistry but it is a real thing that the industry uses to cast people in shows and is one of the very real factors that determines a characters longevity on a show. Perhaps chemistry is coming more into play as this character is getting more screen time. Regarding the people that made a comment on the actresses looks, that was in very poor taste and should not be done.
Chemistry: is absolutely nothing that can be learned. You either you have it or you don't. But chemistry is between people: you may have it with one person and not with another. Thus, an entire cast can have great chemistry and and a newcomer steps in and doesn't have it and Wham! it throws things off.
This is essential in casting, esp for TV shows where the actors practically live together but is also found in small companies or offices and thus important. I say this because I used to be a Human Resources director and it was essential that the staff get along well and that they respected each other in order to work effectively.
You cannot TEACH this to someone and I would screen like crazy to only hire those that I knew would be a good fit. If that meant passing up some over qualified candidates to hire someone with less experience but had a great attitude, that's what I would do. It worked.
CM Fanatics saw the lack of chemistry immed a few months back and that has continued to diminish with the loss of integral players and we cannot be lulled into getting used to a new player and accepting that it's OK, it will improve, or we will change our minds. That's generally not how it works - sorry, but it's part of human nature and I don't think we can fight it.
We all know that it's not just a pretty face and, BTW, certainly not someone noticing a crooked one: WTH, you guys? That's too rude for words.
Why can't you guys be more kind? I do not like the Seaver character but would not say that kind of thing in a public forum. Really, there is a time and a place. Like my mom used to say, if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all. That old adage still holds true. Please people, stay on track here and let's have adult discussions.
Thanks for your time and attn.
I think it's safe to say this show might actually be coming out of it's little slump? This is what drew me into the show, not the "let's scare the crap out of people! 8D" kind of show we've been getting a lot lately.
I felt so bad for the poor kid in the show, no matter what he did they just wouldn't leave him alone. he's the first unsub I've honestly felt bad for in a lot time, it's nice to get away from the complete monsters sometimes, no matter how sad it can be.
Seaver was also great in this one and really starting connect with the team. She will become a grear asset just like Hotch said "Seaver has potential"
I also loved how Reid explained that schizophrenia isn't just hearing voices and seeing things, and how it doesn't necessarily make them into serial killers, people always seem to forget that, especially in crime shows. They treated him like an actual person, which I thought was really nice. And again, one of the things I love most about the show.
Yes, 'broken' ended Season 3 ep 2 - everyone coming back to empty houses (cabin and office). Very powerful maybe to "recover parts of themselves the job takes". Very powerful how everything seems connected on CM over the years. Can't believe they can't do the same with character info!
Let's hope things work out for Season 7. To quote Chaplin via CM "Nothing lasts for ever, not even our troubles".
Actors don't really need to like or spend time with each other in order to develop on screen chemistry. It's something very natural, either it's there or it isn't. There have been examples when two actors absolutely loathe one another in real life, but have great on screen chemistry, and vice versa. I also believe that the original cast, i.e., that is Gideon, Hotch, Morgan, Elle, Reid, Garcia, and JJ had instant chemistry. It was like they belonged together. Then Elle left, and Emily came in, and she fitted in seamlessly. She had chemistry with the others right away, never once did it feel like the dynamics of the group were being thrown out of place because of her. Instead, she added something interesting and unique, which I attribute to intelligent writing while forming her character, and Paget being such a gifted performer. Again, after Gideon left, Rossi was brought in and I know many people were very upset after Gideon left, but I never really cared for him, so it was really easy for me to make the transition from Gideon to Rossi. I don't really care too much for Rossi either. But his presence never bothered me like Seaver's does. Poor writing and poor acting have just totally made me give up on liking this character altogether. And no, she doesn't have any chemistry with the rest of the cast. Strauss has better chemistry with them than Seaver does.
heyya Why should believe anything you say you have had it in for seaver the day she came.
Your reasons for liking her is not really reasons anymore you just keep saying the same thing over and over
poor acting by rachel Nichols. Again a complete false statement from an anti seaver. wow
Michael you need to get some perspective here as you claim that heyya has "had it in for Seaver since the day she came" because as you said heyya has said the same thing repeatedly, however, the issue is that the same poor things have been going on with this character since she first arrived so what is it that heyya is supposed to say that is different if the same issues keep occuring and keep getting worse with this character. Isn't it correct to say, I believe, that no matter what is said that is negative about the character and/or the actresses acting that you will have something to say contrary to that opinion? You can do that, that is fine, but to turn around and say that the individual(s) who are saying the opposite of what you are saying are offering reasons that are not really reasons anymore is what you are doing as you do not provide anything in support of that statement, except heyya supported supported the opinion put forth by contrasting other characters, actors, on the show.
Anonymous, "another complete false statement." Again, you have every right to believe that the acting skills of ths actress are good, but I happen to believe that they are not strong, and to her detriment, only get highlighted as such when placed with strong actors. That is my opinion of her acting, you can disagree, but to claim that is a false statement is off base as you cannot impose what you believe to be good acting on other people; just as I cannot try to impose my belief that her acting is not strong on you.
Samantha, thank you for defending my post, I really appreciate it. I couldn't help but laugh when I read Michael and Anonymous' comments.
They can disagree with me all they want, but there is a respectable way to disagree. Totally discounting someone else's opinion is definitely not the way to do it. Personally, I prefer not to spend my energy trying to explain my point of view to people who themselves cannot put up a strong argument to support their views and use terms like "anti-seaver" and "haters."
Also, how one perceives someone's acting is subjective. So no one's perceptions about another's acting can be "false." But enough of this, all I want is for her to be gone come season7.
CBS, Ed, I'm repeating it again, the season7 team should be: Hotch, Reid, Morgan, Emily, JJ, Garcia and Rossi. If both the ladies can't come back, I'll be happy with one. If neither comes back give us another credible character, with experience and qualifications to be part of the BAU. Either way, Seaver needs to be scrapped.
So no one's perceptions about another's acting *cannot* be "false."
Sorry for the typo.
I think I'm starting to like Seaver. I'm sure they'll develop her character more as the season goes on. I think the writers have been focusing on Prentiss for now. I'm giving her a chance because I think she deserves one!
I think Seaver is a lost cause.
Chemistry is in the eye of the beholder. A LOT of people were saying the same exact thing about Prentiss and Rossi when they first came. Personally, I think Morgan and Seaver showed some CRAZY chemistry during this episode. I was a little surprised because I hadn't really seen it before. That little glance after they interviewed the neighbor was hilarious, and physically they looked great as a team chasing down the unsub.
I was willing to give Seaver a chance too, in the beginning, but she has done NOTHING, nothing to warrent that any longer. Part of the blame for this goes to the writers. When Emily and Rossi were written into the series, I think the writers did a much better job of intriguing us by their characters, as well as showing us that they had what it took to be there. If something Seaver had noticed in her first episode had led to the capture of the unsub, I might have thought she may have an affinity for this, but she contributed absolutely nothing, other than almost getting herself killed and putting others in danger. But, as I say, I lay that mostly at the feet of the writers.
However, the importance of chemistry, especially in a cohesive group like this who are like family, cannot be stressed enough. As gubegirl and others have stated, AS/RN doesn't have it. It's not something that can be taught, manufactured or forced like they're trying to do now with, "Emily would want us to embrace Seaver." Gag me!
The "Give her a chance," mantra that those who are pro Seaver keep spouting is getting old. She's been on quite a few episodes now, way more than were needed for me to accept JM or PB. In any debate each side presents the reasons that support their position and heyya is right, those that are pro Seaver never give good reasons why we should accept the Seaver character. And I am talking about the ideology here, not the people concerned. One of the main rules of debate is attack the idea, not the person. Anyone is allowed to take any stance they want on a subject. And an opinion should not be considered "wrong", it's an opinion. If you disagree, fine, but everyone has an opinion and is entitled to it and should be respectfully countered with evidence to the contrary.
Pat,
The post right above you gives positive reasons why I felt Seaver had chemistry in this episode. If you don't agree, that's totally fine, but please don't say that nobody ever gives reasons in support of Seaver.
Michael, you wouldn't be Mikey now calling yourself Michael, would you? You can call yourself anything you like, but you seem to fall right in with Ben, Kenneth, Carlos, and Victor (forgive me if I am leaving anyone out - there are a few anonymouses), all of whom have wanted to discuss nothing but Seaver and call the rest of us Seaver "haters". I think Carlos did come up with a comment or two when prompted but most male names have fallen off this blog when true talk goes on and then a day or two goes by and a new male name surfaces. Hmmm....I cannot wait for the RN fan club to be up and running so that you will all have a spot for your discussions as we CM Fanatics have always enjoyed this one.
We'd like to think that there is WAY more to discuss here than Seaver and whether or not she belongs and are interested in hearing views of other topics concerning the show.
Now, back to the previous pleasant topic of music: altho, if you google or bing Lifehouse-CM you find them getting credit for their song, "Broken" in the Birth and Death epi, but it is actually, as Eleven said late last nite, in S3, epi 2, "In Name and Blood". I had to scrounge around and do alot of fast forwarding to get to hear it while watching the final scenes, but OMG, it is the best. Gives me goosebumps to think about. It was so perfectly matched to the outcome/aftermath of their collective day. Jason Wade,lead vocalist sings "I am damaged at best...as you've already figured out..." I realize that's why I have always associated it with the "Damaged" epi! Please give it a listen. I promise it will take you back. And make you sigh deeply.
Another epi on the same DVD (cannot give you the name - it's still in my DVD player!) but it is the one with Eddie Cibrian - hunka-munka that he is, being the terminally ill man using his son to hunt down women and torture and kill them because his wife left him. Did not catch the name of the intro song, but it shows him caressing one of his victims in a very loving way to a great song (also which escapes me right now - have had no coffee yet!) but then, the next scene and you realize he is a killer!
It also occured to me last nite that some uses of music in epis can make you look at some of your former favorite music differently, as in "Soulmates" where the two neighbor men are kidnapping and raping local very young girls and are signalling each other with the Tom Petty song, "Here comes my Girl."
A-A-G-G-H-H! It reined you in, had your rapt attention and then you realize these guys are killing people as you enjoy the music. Oh, Tom, when did you start singing for killers??:)
Kinda weird, kinda cool the effect it has on you.
Anyway, must go walk the dogs and after I've had my coffee, if anyone wants to talk music, I'm rearin' to go!
Let's go Seaver-less, guys, please?
Gubegirl, do you know what song was played at the end of Seven Seconds when Hotch was giving the little girl CPR? Have we heard any violin really since Season 1's Ride the Lightning? Hey, gives me a good reason to rewatch everything from S-1, er, for the nth time ;-)
Sorry, Mary J, you already answered my question on Seven Seconds. Many thanks - gotta get it now! Hmmmm when will we get us some Sir Hotchalot? It's been tooooo long.
OK, guys, now that I have had my coffee, I would like to add to my prev post:
The epi w/ Eddie Cibrian IS one and the same" "In Name and Blood". and the opening song where they show a close-up of EC making love to someone is the Bon Jovi song "Making Memories" from 3-4 yrs ago and the ending song is the Lifehouse song. Wow! The music really made this epi, while watch ing eye candy EC be a total sleazebag...well, you get the point. One you need to go back and watch. I have a hunch diehard CM fans will be pulling out their DVDs this summer if A&E and ion don't satisfy us. Maybe we should go back and compile a "must RE-SEE " list that included great music? Save us a little work if we all brainstorm together? We can "hear" the episodes with new ears next time around.
Another fun topic would be one we did abit of upon the imminent departure of Prentiss: quotes from the characters themselves; i.e. this one I'm referring to had the one where Garcia thinks Morgan is calling her and she answers "talk dirty to me" over speaker phone, and Strauss responds, introducing herself (albeit abit startled) and Garcia says something like "It goes without saying, Ma'am, that I was expecting someone else," as Morgan puts his head in his hands, trying really hard not to smirk. Such a good scene.
And whoever said Strauss had chemistry: OMG, does she! That woman is amazing - I cannot imagine anyone playing her role any better - she does a wonderful job bringing out the WORST in all of our team - and I mean that in the most flattering way - Hah!
I just read My Opinion's post,
I actually watched Meskada today because Nick Stahl is in it and he is so hot! Anyway, My Opinion has a point. Rachel Nichols was actually decent enough in Meskada and she was ok in GI Joe. Actually, her movie roles are better than her tv roles. Same with her acting, actually better in the movies. But I agree with My Opinion so thats a decent middle ground.
I've noticed that Three Days Grace has played quite a few times in promos for eps and Korn's Coming Undone, all songs that i like.
CM should definitely have a soundtrack.
It should include:
NIN Everyday is Exactly the Same, Lifehouse's BRoken, I
mpgen Heap's The Moment i said It
Korn's Coming Undone
Three Days Grace It's all Over or/and Going Down
Puddle of Mudd's Living on Borrowed Time which was also included in the Namelss Faceless promo and Psycho by the same band.
These are all songs that are associated and have played in CM.
I'm going to watch Psycho Beach Party now cuz I havent seen it and I do like Kevin Lynch.
I love that song by Imogene Heap even tho' that epi' was so not my favorite (subject matter quite repulsive to me) but the best word I can use to describe her voice in that song is "Haunting." Really fitting.
I agree: If Greys' can have their own soundtrack, and that show likes to take credit for its innovative use of music (maybe rightfully so: I think back to Snow Patrol and the Fray and that's where got HUGE breaks being featured on that show.)
Maybe that can be our next project when we have no new CM epi's to watch:(
no, no, NO - CM should go on for ever!! I have faith - they have given us so much joy for the past 6 years...here's to the most adorable, talented, funny group of people!! A big THANK YOU to you....
Yes i agree that CM should release a soundtrack they have played some good stuff on this show
Eleven, I think gubegirl meant during the hiatus, but your enthusiasm is duly noted :)
Ah, i see.... Just thought this was as good an opportunity as any other to thank them. They are struggling with the various decisions they have been lumped with and they still have to go to work, be committed, have a degree of belief. So yes let's thank them and hope they find their feet again.
Sorry Anonymous, you're right you did mention it, my bad, although we must agree to disagree, I didn't think the look between them was hilarious and I didn't see any of the 'chemistry like CRAZY.' But that's just my POV.
Gubegirl, I've enjoyed a lot of the music, but one that really brought back memories, and I'm dating myself here, at the end of Plain Sight what could have been better than Jackson Brown's "Doctor My Eyes."
Pat, I agree with your POV in both of your posts and also say that it is ultimately an issue of agreeing to disagree.
Eleven, ditto on your last post. Thank you's all around and a hope that season 7 will usher in a return to them finding their feet again.
On to the CM music discussion, another CM song I love in addition to "Broken" by Lifehouse, "The Moment I Said It" by Imogen Heap, and "My Side of the Story" by Hodges, is "Enemy" by Flyleaf. It appeared in the beginning of "Risky Business" when the two teens hung themselves. It was really haunting, and I absolutely love the lyrics of that song. Totally in tune with that particular subject matter of the show. That is another thing I love about CM, the songs they play are always relevant to the situation at hand, and I think whoever picks out the music and songs does a commendable job and deserves some serious props.
That previous Anonymous post is me. For some reason, I couldn't type my name in :S
Oh, yeah, Pat, Jacksin Browne is so THE MAN. My very fave of his is that "Loud-Out/Stay" medley he does where he (or a co-vocalist?) sounds just like Frankie Valle-OMG! So good. Damn, that's the second time today I got goose bumps - what's better than great music? Don't answer that, we're trying to stay on topic, here:)
If you have never seen/.heard it, you must go youTube it right now.
Eleven: NO WAY AM I GIVING UP ON CM RETURNING FOR SEASON 7 (and a good one, too! anytime soon. Not as long as our guys are around, I shall remain faithful. The way I look at it, as much as I love the remaining 4 guys, as long as they hang in there, so will I. They are worth it and the last five years of seeing 6 seasons (I watched the first on DVDs)are good enuf that I refuse to throw in the towel. I hope they get another experienced profiler sometime soon, I think they need it because they are stretched way too thin, but in the meanwhile, I'm hangin'.
Heyya,
I love the flyleaf song as well. Another song is Heavy and Hanging by Patterson Hood which played in season 5's Reckless ep at the end when Hotch, Prentiss and Rossi were walking away after doing their jobs. Great direction of that scene, very badass but very simple and a good message as well.
plus some of the songs used in CM are hard to download and are so perfectly in sync with the show and the mood of the episode and characters. Really CM should have a soundtrack!
Correction: That would be LOAD-OUT.STAY by Jackson Browne (typo!) and altho' it is almost 9 minutes long, well worth listening to London, 1978, uploaded by wsyoo 2008) The slide guitarist is amazing and when he comes in to use his girl voice for the Farnkie Valle part: well, you must see/hear this appreciate it. The lyrics about how all the towns and cities are beginning to look the same, living in hotel rooms: too bad they can't incorporate some of it into a CM episode? Would be appropriate... And back in 1978, well, hey, Jackson Browne lookes alot like MGG: long dark hair, tall and thin and damn good-looking...I forgot just how good looking...uh-oh I am digressing again...and not getting any work done...I so-o-o need a life...
I agree Optika, that scene was so well-done. Hotch, Emily, and Rossi were truly badass. Another song I forgot to mention was "Let It Be Me" by Ray LaMontagne..I think that was the artist, not sure. It was at the end of "JJ" and now I cry every time I hear it. I think it's the perfect song choice for her, really soothing and soulful, much like our beloved JJ. I just want her back. Reid needs her. And we all need her :(
heyva: Ray LaMontagne was the perfect voice (not to mention name: Will's last name!) for the song in JJ's last epi. He performed it live here last Sept. and he has an incredibly moving and distinctive voice and made the crowd go wild. He is very shy and dims the lites between each song and does not interact with the audience much but sure does know how to give them their money's worth.
Lifehouse' new CD, "Smoke 'n Mirrors" has some good CM material too, like maybe "Halfway Gone?" WOuldn't that be a good one for an upcoming epi?
heyya,
I love that song too. I dl it. So perfect for her. Also I think I got the season 5 ep wrong. I think it was called Hopeless actually for the Heavy and Hanging song.
You know what, I think I'm OK with Seaver now.
Yes, I still miss JJ and I hate that Prentiss is gone, but I don't think we are ever going to get our perfect team back together the way it was. It's been long since JJ and now with Paget with a pilot in the works, I think it's done.
The team that we had and loved so much, is done forever. I've decided to move on and give the show a chance to work out through this messy season.
It's still my favorite show, even if it's been going through a really rough time lately.
One thing I'm sure, I'm not going to let a simple boring character stop me from watching a show that I have loved for 6 years. Maybe, now they will start to flash her out more.
So I say, if Seaver comes back next season, I'll be ok with that too.
I'll wait and see.
And I know many disagree with me, and I know all the reasons why and I agree with them actually, but like I say, I'm an old time fan, I'm staying until the end.
Papa Roach's Getting away with Murder played in the Big Game and Revelations promos for season 2 and that song should also be included in the CM soundtrack.
I would love to see a CM soundtrack but I think the network will cry broke again just as they did when they fired all of the great writers, AJ and Paget, replacing them with freelance writers and a cheaper costing replacement playing a sub par character.
However, if they did stop crying broke, it would be great not only to get all of those people back, but also a soundtrack. It could be something like an overview of the different seasons; highlights. Maybe songs from the major episodes as there would probably be too many songs for one CD, unless they did something like a double CD and downloads on iTunes.
That would be Eleven, Cindy, Tania and myself make 4 FOR SURE who are in for the duration, correct?
Pat? Optika? Anyone? Stand up and raise your hands...
I'm talkin' without PB & JJ (that way if they do come back we can be pleasantly, ecstatically surprised) and EVEN if they DON'T go Seaver-less. The good still outweighs the bad, if you will, and I only mean that we have FOUR super guy actors that can be counted on to participate in a good show that we will be happy to watch. I'm in for the long haul, I have too much invested and have never been a quitter. ('course I am not a big risk-taker, either:)
Hey, I never watched Forest and the cutie Brit even ONCE after the pilot...that's faithful, isn't it? My family thinks I am nuts that weeknites, if the TV is on, it's CM reruns...hey, I'm far from being tired of them yet. I scare myself sometimes when I have the lines memorized and can speak them simultaneously just like my son did when he used to live for the goofy Adam Sandler movies, etc. Yeah, that's scary...
I'm still on the fence about that gubegirl. I love the men, but this Seaver character, ack, she drives me crazy! It is such a ridiculous character, ack! I would love to know how people can block her out. I've read people saying that they do that here and in other forums, but I guess I haven't gotten that down yet. Would love to figure out how to do it. I was thinking maybe I should record the episodes onto a DVD using my DVD recorder and just fast forward through any parts that she is in. Is that what some people do? I'm not trying to be sarcastic, I really want to know so that I can watch the show.
But another problem is the writing. This discovering who the unsub is prior to the airing of the show plus spending near half of the episode on them takes the suspense away for me. I am really hoping that they take a look at the writing and maybe do some type of overhaul between the hiatus and season 7. There is also the question of TG and SM's contract. I don't know, I mean, it would be really stupid of CBS not to give these guys what they are asking for, but, I don't know, I have a bad feeling about this that I am praying is wrong.
I'm with Karina on everything. The writing lately, TG and SM contract still not settled, and I actually WINCE when Seaver is on screen. Nichols is one of few actors whose acting makes me wince. I don't know how much more I can take.
But the music is great, especially the little piano tune the autistic boy played.
I really liked that piano piece in Coda also - I think they said it was specifically written for the show. I esp loved that it motivated Reid to go out and buy a keyboard! Wouldn't it be cool to have some follow-up on that for a storyline? Maybe he can sit in with his friend who is the jazz musician for a set or two? Hah!
BTW, just heard on the news that today is National Autism Day. Here in SD, a military town, 1 in 88 children in the military suffer from autism. How sad is that?
Oh wow, that is sad. Have they pinpointed any particular reason for that gubegirl?
That piano piece from the Coda episode was really nice.
I am nowhere near the point of being worried about TG and SM's contracts. SM has been pretty quiet (nothing new), but TG's recent interviews indicate that season 7 is all but assumed.
I also do not believe CM would let go of RN so quickly. There are several reasons for this, but most importantly, RN has a major blockbuster film coming out at the end of the summer. All the blurbs and reviews for Conan will have her name with "Criminal Minds" in parenthesis after it. When she goes on talk shows to promote the movie, they'll say things like "catch Rachel every Wednesday on Criminal Minds." All of this will be free publicity for CM right in the money demographic, and we know how much networks like that sort of thing.
In terms of AJ and Paget returning, I am not holding out hope. I think bridges were burned with AJ, and I think Paget's pilot will definitely get picked up.
Karina,
The thing with me was, the moment that I decided that I wouldn't let one so and so character ruin all the fun for me, and decided to tolerate her, I was ok.
I'm even re-watching this season and even her past episodes aren't bugging me anymore.
But that was me. If you can't handle or stand her, you just can't. It took me 9 episodes with her.
Maybe the secret is to take one episode at a time and see how you feel about it, and when it comes back up the next week, see if you want to watch that.
If you continue watching or if you stop watching doesn't make you a better or a worse fan, just means that after all of these changes, you may not be interested in what you are getting, that you signed up to something different, or it means that the thing that makes you watch, is still there.
The thing is, we have no idea what is going to happen, if TG and Shemar are staying, if AJ or Paget are coming back, if Bernero is leaving too...
Right now, any fan hanging in there is pretty awesome, because this was a really rough season, for the cast and crew and for the fans too.
Honestly, right now I'm just hanging in there hoping we get a 7th season.
And we will see from there.
Um, according to the radio interview that MGG gave AJ basically told him that there was a possibility of her coming back, so I think that if she is approached with a good and fair offer, there is a strong possibility that she will return.
One of the interviews that TG just gave said that he "hopes" to be back for season 7 but that there are still going over his contract. He said that he would like to return, but that they are still in contract talks. That doesn't sound shored up to me. SM has been pretty silent except for one interview he did a while back where he hinted at the fact that there were issues aurrounding the contract talks. I hope the talks go well for both of them, but until there is something signed, sealed and delivered, I am going to assume that things are not hashed out yet.
Conan movie, um, that is not something that I would run to see, maybe it is appealing to some. Plus, I'm thinking that Conan has a different feel and vibe to it than CM, so while some may tune in to see what it is about, of they are inclined towards stuff like Conan, I don't think CM will be appealing to them. Plus, if I were CBS and CM, I would be more concerned about the potential viewers they already have who may be turned off to the Seaver character to the point that they stop watching the show. I am not saying that will happen, but there is that potential and that I believe would be at the center of any consideration of whether to keep RN on.
There are 12 pilots up for limited spots at NBC. I think Paget's has a good shot, but her pilot is up against some pretty stiff competition. Every other day, Deadline reports on casting for NBC comedy pilots and the pool and competition is widening. Whether it gets picked up or not, it is up to Paget whether she wants to return.
Hi Tania, there definitely will be a 7th season, so that is good news for the cast and the crew who have worked very hard this past season. The only question is going to be how will the team look like going into season 7. We will all have to wait and see.
Thanks for your reply :)
Those cross promotional things can be tricky. Yes, press is good and can be helpful, but if the character that the actor is playing in the movie is markedly different from the other project that they are trying to promote using the movie, chances are, they are not going to retain the people who may tune in out of curiousity. I am thinking that the movie probably has a different demo target than the show and if it does it will not be all that useful. If it has a similar demo target, then it goes back to whether something like CM would appeal to the viewers of that movie being that they are different genres. Also, going to Karina's point, I think of utmost concern is the current demo viewers, retaining them. If there is a sense that a character may lose some in that demo group, well, then that is really a no brainer as the demo is what brings in the ad revenue.
Oh, question, is the next episode the one that Strauss is going to appear in or is it the one after next weeks episode?
It seems like forever since a Strauss reign of terror, LOL
TG gave a more recent interview where he was basically talking about season 7 story lines for the Hotch character. That sounded pretty promising to me.
There's been a lot of conjecture about MGG's comment concerning AJ, and I fear it may have been misinterpreted. Frankly, we just have no idea what he meant.
From what I've seen of Conan, it will have a VERY similar look, feel, and audience as "300." If I'm not mistaken, CM did an entire episode in the 300 style, trying to attract viewers in that demo. Just sayin...
I have no idea what "300" is so I can't comment on that.
If I am not mistaken, I believe that comment you are referring to was from the same interview where TG said that he "hoped" to be back but that they were still in talks.
They don't have to keep RN on to get the free publicity. Whether she is in S7 or not the media will likely still put CM in parenthesis. I agree with Karina and Sameera though. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. CBS needs to make sure their current demo is happy. If the rumors are true and they bring AJ back I can guarantee you CBS and producers will be as Gods in the CM fandom. Cc: Ed Bernero, Les Moonves, et al.
"300" was that really popular graphic novel movie starring Gerard Butler's abs. The CM episode "True Night" was basically an homage to that type of style.
The interview I am referring to was a follow-up to the one you are thinking of. Here's the link: http://insidetv.ew.com/2011/04/01/smallville-the-vampire-diaries-justified-and-house-find-out-whats-next-in-the-spoiler-room/
Obviously the deal isn't sealed, but the speculation about the character gives me hope.
I didn't see TG in that link, but yes, that is the interview I am referring to. The interviewer had one long chat with TG but spilt up the interviews into 2 parts, smart move to get people to come back :)
The first part though highlighted that the contract situation for him was still up in the air and what he was going to do during the hiatus. Then, the interviewer went on to ask him stuff based on what has been happening with his character. I would definitely expect her to ask those questions because those are questions that fans want to know. Plus, TG does want to come back, he definitely does, but that depends on whether CBS is willing to give him what he is asking for contract wise; there is definitely a reason they are still in talks, talks that I hope work out well. It would be beyond stupid and foolish for them not to give TG what he is asking for which I imagine includes more money per episode, but as others have said, I would put nothing past CBS and I for one am waiting to hear official news of a contract signed.
You have to scroll down. It's right above the "Raising Hope" picture.
What they need to do is unload that stupid spin-off which started this whole chain of events. From almost all accounts, it is a god awful waste of TV space.
Oh, okay, I see it now. I nearly missed it :)
Anonymous, if they brought back AJ I would be jumping for joy!!! She should have never been fired especially not on the account of that stupid spin-off!
New here i have read these and it seems to me the people who don't like seaver, has no real reason to do so.
She still is a farely new character, and she is still in development. How can they not see that.
The way i see it, is that it all comes down to them losing PB and AJ, and they are still mad and the whole thing does not sit right with them. That is why they are gonna dislike seaver whatever she does.
Now they are even attacking the actress as well.
I mean what has she ever done other then take a job on a hit show.
I am completely baffled at how some of them behave and nitpicking on everything no casual viewer or most fans that has watched the show would ever notice.
That is my opinion on the matter.
For sure gubegirl, I'm supporting my guys all the way and if I have to put up with Seaver, then I have to, just don't ask me to like it. At least when I rewatch if she isn't in an important part I can just forward right over her.
I'm like you with reruns, everyone around me rolls their eyes, "You've already seen it a million times." There's always time for once more!
No, Bill, I don't like the Seaver character because it is a god awful excuse for a character. CBS and CM bit it when they fired AJ and tried to get rid of Paget. Those things are done and they suck but at the time when they said they were going to add a new female character I was anxious to see what they were going to offer up. My anxiousness turned to disgust when they revealed the Seaver character. This character is the epitome of dumb for CM and I am not amused. Had the character worth a hell I would have given it a shot. As it stands, it is a worthless filler character that they have tried every trick in the book to try and get the audience to accept. This viewer ain't buying what they are trying to shovel.
Karina, gubegirl, Pat, and all, I am hanging on for the guys and Garcia and will now fast forward over the Seaver character. Whatever I've missed because of the useless banter that spews forth from that character I trust someone will talk about here if it has anything to do with a central part of the episode. This episode sealed the fast forwarding deal for me. I pray to God that this character will be written out, but if not, it is fast forward city for me.
The way i see it, is that it all comes down to them losing PB and AJ, and they are still mad and the whole thing does not sit right with them. That is why they are gonna dislike seaver whatever she does.
You say this like it is an invalid reason to dislike Seaver. Some people sto going to their favorite restaurant when it gets new management. If you take away a favorite, it makes sense to refuse a replacement.
Now they are even attacking the actress as well.
Not liking someone's acting is not attacking them.
I mean what has she ever done other then take a job on a hit show.
She took on a job fully knowing it was in the middle of a heated controversy. She saw the risk and chose to accept it. This is the consequence of that risk.
I can't draw to save my life. If I tried to make a living off my drawings and people told me my drawings were awful, I would not take that as a hit against me but as what it is, a statement about my drawings. I think her acting on CM is cringe worthy. That is in no way saying she is cringe worthy but rather her acting on CM. It is as wooden as all get out and I don't care for it but that is not something against her. I don't get what in the world is so hard to get about that?????
We are not what we do, we do what we do for a living and let me tell ya acting is not for the faint at heart. If you can't take the heat of criticism, get out of the game because not everybody is going to like what your serving but this boo hoo why don't you like her acting thing is sorrowful. I don't think she is up to par with the rest of the cast. If you do, wonderful for you, I don't so that is the end of that. Again, I don't get what in the world is so hard to get about that?????
Bill,
Seaver isn't the first replacement on the show. Prentiss and Rossi were replacements and I had no trouble accepting them because their characters were interesting and believable. They came to the table with experience and skills that the team needs. Seaver has none of these. Yes, she's still learning, but she shouldn't be learning in a place like the BAU.
You say we're angry over AJ and Paget being replaced. Yes we are, at least I am, especially since the characters they played were strong independent women. Prentiss spoke a plethora of languages and could kick ass in the field as well as any of the men and JJ, besides being a good field agent, had the ability to interact with people, the press, cops, victims and families. She has that calming strength about her. If these women had been replaced with women who had comparable things to offer, Seaver might not seem such a misfit. We're told we haven't given her a chance. She's been in eight episodes so far, I think, more than enough to have proved her worth and she hasn't. I knew in the first episodes with Rossi and Prentiss that they were going to be great.
Attacking the glaring weaknesses of a character is not attacking the actress, and if I say I don't care for RN's acting, I am not attacking her as a person, just saying I don't care for the way she plays this role. That's like getting poor service at a restaurant and not leaving a tip. You're not demeaning the woman's character, just pointing out the fact that she didn't do a good job.
Pat when Rossi came into the show, there were a lot of people that was unhappy with him at first.
Maybe not you, but there were many that didn't like his appearance on the show at first.
Also he cam into the show while losing a fan favorite.
But the circumstance was different at that time, because Patinkin left by himself.
Oy, you guys, we have seriously been over this time and time again. Please let's not rehash it.
I've wondered this more than once. It seems like many of Seaver's supporters are guys. I get that. She's a good looking woman. Hey, I tune in to see MGG who I think is totally adorable so I can't point fingers at anybody for that.
Now we've all heard the reasons from CBS as to why AJ and Paget were cut, but I've wondered if CBS thought AJ lost some of her appeal after she had her baby. I guess the guys would know this or the gal's with husbands more than me. It's just crossed my mind in the past that they get rid of JJ and then bring in a JJ clone. Why?
Bill, my good man, you have been relegated to the likes of Mikey, Ben, Kenneth, Carlos, Victor, Michael and several anonymous: if you don't get it by now, you never will and we all are tired of talking about it. But, hey, you are welcome to find those previously mentioned above and strike it up with them again. Most have fallen by the wayside as it would appear, as best we can tell, that they are not true CM fans but strictly fans of RN. It can't be fun to listen,talk, muse, etc. on this blog for an interest such as yours so expect to be 1.) ignored 2.) if you persist, do not be surprised to hear much more of what could have already read dating back to her 1st episode months ago, to the most recent this past week: impressions have not changed for the most part and in some, have worsened. That's all.
Karina: I will def be on the lookout for more on that autism stat as it is a serious issue (WAY more serious than the above) and it has been raised on CM more than once, not to mention that MGG has hinted that he plays Reid based on a loose Asperger's interpretation. I have been intrigued by it for years.
I'm going to sign off for the nite, people, as I have written way more than I needed to today (the music stuff was great! can you tell I am like a rocker from way back -talk about dating myself but I can talk Bruno Mars and Arcade Fire, too, if you like!) as I currently crank up my radio to hear the Cranberries a little louder than my 19.y.o. would like.
Must also get off here before another Tom, Dick or Harry shows up. If you hear a smacking sound coming thru your computer screen, don't worry, I'm aiming at them not at you...:)
Look, it doesn't matter how they left or whatever else, or who did or didn't like them at first. Bottom line is that Rossi and Prentiss were up to par with the show. They were believable, interesting like Pat said and they came to the table with experience and the skills that the team needed. This past episode even Hotch said it, she is not up to par. Prentiss and Rossi were. I don't like to be slipped a "Mickey" in the form of a character. I guess you can say we've been slipped a "Seaver" and it is just not acceptable. The character has been on enough times for me to make up my mind. Probationary agent Seaver ain't cutting it for me and is not cutting it for the team, hence Hotch's insistence to get, ah, what did he say again, oh yeah, an experienced profiler which Seaver isn't. Why in the world this character who would not even get an interview for a spot on the team be still there is beyond me, but like I said, if they don't write out this mistake, then it is pick up remote, click fast forward, and come here for whatever I've missed on account of this character.
One final clarification: I did not mean to leave Garcia out of the are we hangin' or not equation by saying I was as long as the four guys were: Garcia has kinda left in that she has joined the spin-off team and I have not supported that effort. I am not blaming PG nor have I stopped liking her but she is weaker in the quasi-JJ role she currently plays and I wonder that she can continue to do both shows? Anyway, I do not look to her actions to affect my viewership anytime soon, you know what I mean?
G'nite, y'all.
I like this episode. I feel they are getting back on track slowly, more decent storytelling style of earlier seasons.
I like what Hotch said about Seaver in the beginning. It was something Hotch would concern and I think it would be interesting to see if they are going to show us how Seaver will earn trust from Hotch in the future. That would make a interesting storyline for the team dynamics and I would like to see it will develop not so quickly (because that would be unrealistic).
I like they are showing us more team interaction. Though not only Morgan/somebody but more others interactions would be appreciated for me. Especially Hotch and Reid. I haven't seen their decent interaction since, I think, Season 3 and that is far too long ago.
I love Hotch's character very much, and I don't so much care about screentime itself but more about how he is in each episode, and I'm glad he is more like himself in recent episodes. I read recent article which Thomas Gibson talks about Hotch's ignorance of grief and I'm so glad he is thinking it sincerely (of course he dose, I know) and I really hope to see how Hotch finally face his grief and how he cope, hopefully in Season 7.
Peggy, you know that's the thing Seaver is a "probationary agent." That means that at some point in the near future she will have to step away from the BAU, because once cadets graduate, they are required to work in a field office somewhere to gain experience. So perhaps we are stuck with Seaver only until they find an experienced agent to fill Emily's shoes, or hopefully Emily or JJ, or if we are lucky even both come back.
Gubegirl, I would love to say that I will continue watching season7, but I'm really skeptical. If things don't change, i.e., if Seaver is still there, I surely won't be tuning in. I love the guys and Garcia with all my heart, I really do, but if she returns next season it will only lead to more out of character writing for the other characters in order to accommodate that farcical character. That for me will be painful to watch. CM season1-5 have been gold, and I'd rather have those pleasant, wonderful memories of the show and cast I love, than what they're trying to turn it into. And I'll forever watch reruns! At least no one can take that away from me. Thank god. I hope you understand :)
Finally got to watch the episode online. I have mixed feelings. I must say I enjoyed the other style of storytelling better, where the audience finds out who the unsub is along with the team. This was another unsub-focused ep & while the portrayal of the unsub was quite good, I'd quite like to have more minutes spent on the profiling interaction among the team members. Seaver still jars with her unexplainable presence: a slightly more confident, unqualified rookie agent to my mind isn't much better than a clueless, unqualified cadet. In a way it's good that she's being more self-possessed, but this gets negated by the unanswered question of why she's even there. Previously I'd put down the flatness & sort of smugness of her portrayal to inadequate writing; but from what I can recall of the little I've seen of her other roles (snippets of online video clips), the actress playing Seaver could portray certain of them in a more lively manner, so maybe it's just this role that's lackluster for her. I'm actually not sure any "improvement" at this time in terms of making Seaver more feisty/badass would work for her because it would go back to the issue of by what right will she get to be badass on the BAU?
The void where Prentiss used to be loomed large, though there seemed to be something else lacking altogether in the way the ep played out. Not sure what it was; maybe a kind of listlessness among the team? The moments between Morgan & Reid, Morgan & Garcia were nice. But Morgan's remark that Prentiss would have wanted Garcia/the team to embrace Seaver -- obviously a msg to CM fans -- to me smacked of putting words in Prentiss' mouth. Claiming that something was expressed by a fictional character who's now thought to be dead -- how can that be fairly contradicted?
It was a pretty good episode but the absence of JJ & Prentiss is really hard to take. Please I wish the useless Seaver character would just go away. Just adding another woman does not make the loss of JJ & Prentiss any easier.
I loved the Reid/Morgan moment and Morgan's reassurance to Reid about his worrying about possible schizoprenia. I hope we see lots more of those brotherly scenes.
I have no desire to see a romance between Garcia & Morgan. Romance between main characters almost always has a negative impact and there have been far too many of those this season.
Asian Fan, yes, I too wish they would go back to the way they used to tell the story in the episode. Knowing who the unsub is up front and also spending so much time with them throughout the episode takes away from the profiling between the team. It is like the "unsub show" guest starring the team. I liked finding out who the unsub is with the team. That is what made the show special and unique to me and I wish they would go back to that to what they originally started with that kept up the suspense. I also agree with evverything else you said too.
Jenna said: "It is like the "unsub show" guest starring the team. I liked finding out who the unsub is with the team. That is what made the show special and unique to me and I wish they would go back to that to what they originally started with that kept up the suspense."
This! I don't mind seeing an unsub-centric or unsub-heavy episode once in a while. When it makes sense. But it seems for a long time now, even before season 6, it's all they are doing. Which leaves me a bit frustrated, since it gets repetetive and it takes away from what I really want to see. The reason I (still) tune in week after week: our team, interacting, profiling, figuring out who the unsub is.
There was a decent amount of profiling in this episode, but - while I felt sorry for the unsub - there was too much focus on him, IMO. The absense of Prentiss, seeing her cut out of the opening, brought tears to my eyes.
Hotch was a bit more in it and he was almost In Character, but still not enough. By far not enough, considering how he has been sidelined since '100' really. The Morgen/Reid scene was pure gold. Very touching. That's the personal interaction I would like to see. Between all the characters and not just Morgan and someone else. As much as I like Morgan. Here I was hoping that Hotch would get involved in the Reid-headaches storyline, after being left out completely of the Emily-storyline, when he didn't even got a good-bye scene of sorts like all the other characters got. Guess, I was wrong.
Best parts of the episode for me:
- Hotch's line about how they need an experienced profiler and they need one NOW. You rock, Hotch!!
- Reid saying he's only read 5 books last week. LoL Oh how much I love you Spencer.
- When Morgan asked Reid if he'd told anyone about his headaches, how Reid said "Emily". My heart broke.
Asian Fan said..I love the way you so precisely and concisely presented the case against Seaver: many of us have been saying all these things and lots more for several months, but your post should sum it up in a very clean-cut manner for the Mikeys, Bens, Kenneths, etc. Now, because these male names have become too numerous to remember, I am referring to them as the Tom, Dick and Harrys. They pop up now and then, every day or so an active thread is running, always praising RN's acting when we find it quite deficient on CM; they try to say we hate the actress when it's the useless, senseless character we dislike and rarely, if ever comment on anything at all about the show itself or any of the other actors. Some of us have strongly suspected they are one and same person because their rant is always the same: they rarely even choose different words to present their argument. Serious CM fans are quite tired of it because it has become such a downer.
So, Asian fan said, I thank you for your well-put entry and ask if we may use it to refer any Tom, Dick or Harrys that may be lurking about, to read for better explanation. Maybe they will read it one place-one time and then go away and find somewhere else to whine as the RN fan club is being formed. Gosh, I can't wait for its completion...:)
People, what do you think? Isn't this a great example of most of us think but are tired of saying? We can just type "re: your comments about Seaver, pls. see Asian fan said's post of Sunday, April 3rd, 2010." We'll be keeping our blood pressure in check, save a ton of time, stop ourselves from being caught up in pointless rants that fall on deaf ears, etc. Worth a try?!
I only wish it were that easy...
Good job, Asian fan said.
Totally agree about going back to the "whodunnit" format, where we don't know who the unsub is until the (near) end. I like to be kept guessing and the current trend the writers have of letting us know who the unsub is from the start gives me less to think about. I pay extra attention why I don't know who the bad guy (or girl) is, trying to notice any subtle clues which enable me to work it out before Reid does (it's happened about twice, my God did I feel smug!).
I'm not familiar with most of the music on the show. Despite most of the TV shows and films I watch being American (British stuff usually bores me as it's mostly dumbed down for the idiots this nation panders to) I'm not keen on American music...
* Waves white flag and looks nervous *
...for some reason I can't put my finger on. Therefore I've only ever recognised three songs in six seasons!
Enya's "Boadicea" - Season 2 (?) at the start of an episode when you saw that family trapped in their house after it had been set alight by an arsonist. The contrast between a such a serene melody and the horror of knowing those poeple were going to burn to death was incredibly effective.
KT Tunstall's "Suddenly I See" at the start of North Mammon, while the three girls are all happy in the car on their way home. My friend used to play that album in her car all the time a few years back and we'd sing along (really badly I hasten to add!) so that was a bit creepy on a personal level.
Rihanna's "Umbrella" - 'Nuff said, everybody knows that one.
Finally, and this encapsulates my twisted sense of humour, every time I see the end of the last episode of season 4 - you know, where Hotch is pouring himself a whisky and you hear the click of the gun - all I can hear playing in the background is Blue Öyster Cult's "Don't fear the Reaper" - How bad is that?!
I apologise profusely...
Why? ** When **
Must learn to proofread.
Must seek out more caffeine...
Blimey Limey, I will need proof of you finding out clues before Reid... :) What episodes were these that you found out before Dr. Spencer Reid :)
gubegirl, great suggestion!
Asian Fan, Jenna, LunaM, and Blimey Limey, I agree and wish they would go back to revealing the unsub near the end of the episode. This to me involves more creativity, profiling, team interaction, and engages the audience by having them track with the team. Even the previews nowadays are unsub heavy, never mind that the episodes almost completely focus on the unsub, with the team just playing catch up in my opinion. An unsub centric episode could be fine here and there, but it seems like the default is unsub heavy virtually all of the time.
Just a side note, I was watching the season 3 episode "Children of The Dark" and the scene between Hotch and the unsub in the hallway of the police station. In that scene, Hotch says to the unsub that he teaches crisis negotiation and co- wrote the textbook on it and that brought me back to the scene in the 13th step (sorry Blimey Limey know this conjures up bad memories for you, me too!) when Hotch handed over the phone to Morgan to negotiate with the unsub. Ok, the unsub requested to speak with Morgan, but part of crisis negotiation is being able to stave off such requests from suspects. Negotiators are trained to be able to divert such requests and bring it back to them. Being that he teaches the class and co-wrote the textbook on it I'd think Hotch would know that and be able to get the unsub to talk to him so as to take control of the situation, not have the unsub take control of the situation by dictating whom he wants to speak to. There is give and take, but there are also reigns to pull in and being that this is one of Hotch's areas of expertise, he would know that and he would would have been the one leading that negotiation. Well, that is what I was thinking at any rate.
How could I have forgotten one of my favorite songs ever, from A Real Rain, Jeff Buckley singing Leonard Cohen's Hallelujah.
Count me in as another who likes the old episodes when we didn't always know who the unsub was through the whole show and got to profile along with the team. Now they're even showing it in the promos.
Gubegirl, count me in to stand up and raise my hands (so long as Thomas is back for S7)!!!
I really miss AJ and Paget too and I hated reading that Thomas HOPES to be back for S7. I’ve been sending postcards to 4 of the PTB to go read the fan blogs and fan comments, along with a strong message of No TG = NO CM 4 ME, now that the shooting season is winding up they will get one every day in April. Hopefully some one pays attention; it makes me feel a little better that I’m doing something to get a message to them.
I agree with going back to the “whodunnit” format, I also liked the narrative format from time to time too.
I’m watching the S3 DVD’s today and there was lots of great music in these episodes, totally agree with In Name and Blood, Making Memories and Broken are fantastic. The episode Penelope is coming up soon and I’m remembering David Bowies'-Hero’s from that one was very fitting at the end, she mentions hearing it in the ambulance while she was in and out of consciousness.
Eleven, I’m right there with you… Hmmmm when will we get us some Sir Hotchalot? It's been tooooo long.
It's part of jumping the shark--relying more and more on guest stars (or in this case, guest star unsubs). Probably an executive meddling decision.
A while ago on another thread, I had theorized what Reid's headaches might lead to, and I don't think it's schizophrenia. I truly think that Reid's headed towards a breakdown. I rewatched the Morgan Reid scene in the bathroom, and before Morgan entered, I think Reid was crying. He may seem alight and enthusiastic with the rest of the team, but I think it's just a mask.
It's not the question of if Reid's gonna have a breakdown, but when. It's been coming for a while, and it's gonna hit soon. Maybe those are the "ghosts" in Reid's head.
Reid's finally told two people about his headaches (Prentiss and Morgan) but when will they actually be SHOWN again on the show, like in Corazon?
I'm thinking about what Morgan told Reid in the restroom, that he knew that Reid was worried because he was at the age where schizophrenia might manifest itself. Maybe these headaches are tied into Reid's fear of becoming schizophrenic like his mother. Reid's had this fear forever and now that he is at a point where that illness can show itself, maybe his mind is going on overdrive. Worrying, the lack of sleep, stress, and now grief, those are all things that can play a powerful role in creating physical symptoms.
I'm really hoping, like I said before, that this isn't some carrot that the show is dangling to keep viewers tuning into the show. I think there has to be some real resolution with this story line and quick.
@ Cindy... There was an early episode where I guessed before Reid, but can't exactly remember which one. If I saw a repeat on TV I'd recognise it though.
The more recent one was from season 5 (I think - only seen it once online, I got my DVDs recently from Amazon UK so that's my Easter weekend treat - a CM binge) where families were being buried lined up side by side in shallow graves. Reid worked it out ten minutes after I'd jubilantly announced that the unsub would be Eastern European, possibly Bosnian. When asked why I was so sure I mentioned a BBC(?) documentary from a few years ago about unearthing mass graves in Bosnia and using DNA to identify the bodies, so they could be reunited with any remaining family for a respectful burial. It just triggered something in my mind and I out-Reided Reid. I think the unsub was from a neighbouring country though, but that's not the point. Haha!
Digression: I've worked out why I loathe "The Thirteenth Step". I fully get that the writers were trying to show the girl was so psychologically damaged she could only equate sex with violence, but it was so over the top in the way it was presented. Nothing was left to the imagination. I'm pretty much immune to a lot of nasty stuff, one of my other favourite shows is Dexter, but it was highly out of character for CM.
@ Anonymous - Yeah, I totally agree with you about Reid heading for a breakdown. Schizophrenia is too obvious, although Reid will no doubt be terrified his symptoms (which all point to an intense level of stress) may indicate he's becoming like his mother. I also thought he'd been crying in the restroom** when Morgan walked in, he looked decidedly edgy during the preceding briefing which Morgan noticed.
** = Bigger digression. Why is it called a restroom, btw?! I'm actually fairly OK when it comes to understanding US terminology and slang because of my viewing and reading habits of the past twenty or so years. I never know whether I should use the American or British terms for certain words on here because while it's a predominantly American forum I'm conscious that:
1). People may think I'm taking the you-know-what and trying to be a "smart-ass". ;-))
2). They may not know which thing I mean if I use a word that means different things depending on which side of the Pond you're on (e.g. chips in the UK are like thick fries and I always laugh when I'm in the US and go into Walmart - where the chips section is full of crisps!). Whatever I end up saying, I mean no offence.
Sorry for the waffle, just thought I should clarify in the name of diplomatic relations, plus I find the "divided by a common language" thing fascinating and highly amusing at times.
Blimey Limey: I'm going to jump in here because I cannot resist: I think "restroom" is an old, generic term, for whatever anyone needed to do in there that is now becoming the "washroom" here in the states. Most of us still ask for the bathroom or the Ladies Room (certainly not the "Powder Room" -way too foo-foo for me but always looking for one in between cups of coffee:)
Now, BL, I ask you, when you eat your chips while watching CM, do you sit on your Chesterfield? and when you are through eating, do you toss any uneaten chips into the garbureator? (sp?) When you go out to pick up your chips, do you leave your car in the car park, then queue up to buy them?
Married to a Canadian (Aye!), just though I would check...:)
I, too, believe Reid is headed for a breakdown. I don't think that he is becoming schizophrenic; I think he has had that fear for so many years and leads such a sheltered life socially (apart from work - no support system) that he has worked himself into such a dither after suffering so many traumas both personally and work-related, he is ready to crack. Now the loss of the two female figures he was closest to aside from his mom, are gone. I said this last month, but with every bit of his storyline, it is becoming more likely to me that he is seriously in need of some therapy and I wish Hotch would notice and jump in there and insist he get it. But Hotch is suffering in his own way, with more grief now than ever before. Rossi is busy mentoring Seaver and has never been the father figure to Reid that Gideon was. It seemed that JJ and Reid were close and then he was confiding in Emily and now they are both gone. Garcia is too wrapped up waiting for Morgan to notice her (where art thou, Kevin??) and that leaves Morgan.
He is assuming the long-missing big brother role that we all loved once again and I hope it continues because he could be Reid's saving grace. Reid, I think, would accept Morgan's concern and recommendations.
That, or Reid is going to snap, blow it at work, and will be forced to get some therapy in order to keep/get back his job and it may come out then.
That's my story and I'm sticking to it. As you can tell, I have drank plenty of coffee, am typing faster than Reid can speak and am ready to go crawl onto my Chesterfield for a power nap.
Yo, Cindy.
Later.
Unless
gubgirl again: don't ask me wth the lonely
"unless"
means - I'm sure that's part of my fingers going faster than my brain.
My expectations for With Friends Like These were not very high because I abhorred The Thirteenth Step, which was scripted by the same writer, Janine Sherman Barrios. But I must admit, aside from a few annoyances, I enjoyed With Friends… much better.
I still felt the screen time of the unsub could have been reduced by having the team doing more of the profiling rather than actually seeing every movement of the unsub; but the voices in his heads depicted as living people added a different spin to the story.
I was disappointed in the short shrift given Prentiss’ death; but I understand that this was the bridge episode allowing the team and the audience to refocus. I also appreciate the fact that the aftermath of Prentiss “death” will be handled by Randy Huggins in Hanley Waters because he captured the nuances of the characters well in Sense Memory; and he seems to be one of the better writers for Hotch; so I hoping/expecting to see Hotch finally get real attention in the next episode.
I resented the comment made by Morgan to Garcia that Prentiss would “want us to embrace Seaver.” Who’s the “us?” The team already appears to have embraced Seavers; aside from Hotch, who is the only one who seems to have kept a cool, professional distance so far--no inspired words of support, no one-on-ones; a simple congratulations Agent Seavers. I hope Hotch remains distant, that way he can reassign her if he has to. It warms my heart that he told Rossi that Seavers is not the answer the team needs. He’s looking for an experienced profiler. I hope he’s laying the groundwork for Paget’s/Prentiss’ return. Barrios more than made up for the embracing Seavers’ comment with the comment made by Hotch; although It’s evident the line was directed toward the audience not the team.
I expected this to be a Reid episode; but Barrios once again pushed Morgan to the forefront, much like she did in The Thirteenth Step, which I also thought would be a Reid episode. Barrios’ scripting reminds me of an old Rodney Dangerfield joke (I think it was Dangerfield) who said “I went to a fight and a hockey game broke out.” I watched what I thought was episodes about Reid and a Morgan episode broke out. As in the Thirteenth Step when Hotch unexpectedly had to hand off negotiations to Morgan, and Morgan led way closing the episode. In With Friends Morgan was used to frame the entire episode with his opening scene with Garcia; his central scenes with Reid and Seaver during the episode; and later his closing scene with Seavers—once again all Morgan all the time.
Season 6 has been one of those seasons where with the loss of AJ and Paget, the reduction of Hotch, the increased focus on Morgan from last season and this season, and the introduction of the Seavers character, I’ll be glad when the credits on the last episode rolls. I love CM and will continue to watch; but it’s been more frustrating than enjoyable this season.
I still hope for more screen time for Hotch (and the return of AJ and Paget); but I’m not getting my expectations up for the remainder of this season. Yes, they’ve been short on Rossi too and I like Rossi; but I’m not looking for increased Rossi screen time (sorry Rossi fans). I don’t see more screen time for Rossi increasing the 18-49 demo meter. Maybe if they’d keep Seavers back at the station, and her lines to a minimum; and cutback Morgan a little; both Hotch and Rossi would be able to contribute more valuable insight.
I found it hard to believe that a recent graduate would be the sole person backing up Morgan when they were tracking the unsub. She’s not Prentiss; she doesn’t yet have the experience, especially with a gun. It would have been more realistic had it been Rossi, since Reid was with Hotch. But then again, maybe she was there because she could keep up and Rossi couldn’t. It would have been more realistic if a qualified police officer had been with them.
cont...
I’m not a fan of the Seavers character or Rachel Nichols’ acting. It already been well established why the character’s presence is a contradiction to the BAU creed; and Nichols seems to struggle with minimalism. Maybe it’s simply that her delivery and presence is strained, unnatural and unsure. I would love to see the character replaced by an experienced profiler; or better yet, to have Paget’s Prentiss return. For those who would say I’m advocating for someone to lose her job; she wouldn’t be the first or last person to lose a job in the entertainment industry; ask AJ or Paget. If someone has to go in order for someone else to benefit; I’d rather the characters we’ve come to know, love and appreciate be the beneficiaries, especially since their value to CM has already been demonstrated.
I know this thread is about With Friends Like these; but I took the opportunity to address some comments made in the Lauren thread that I didn’t get an opportunity to post. I hope the blog administrator indulges me as I address comments made by UK viewer about Prentiss, Rossi and Seavers.
I became intrigued by UK viewer’s staunch defense of the Seavers character and the apparent analysis of the nuanced action of every Seavers’ scene.
UK viewer said, “…I can't remember the exact words but the thing that seems finally to get her riled is when she says that for Doyle Emily is the stressor -- he wants revenge against the person who took away his freedom for all those years, 'And I understand that', she says with feeling.
She gets her understanding from the perspective of still-simmering anger against the people or the system that put her father away...”
Is Seavers angry with the people who put her father away? I missed the episode where that insight was revealed. I thought she was resentful of a serial killer father who murdered so many defenseless people that she felt compelled to apologize for the hurt and pain caused by other serial killers, who, like her father, left so many lives destroyed. She nearly got herself killed trying to apologize to the husband who was later determined to be the unsub. Are we now to believe that Seavers is harboring a festering rage against people who arrested her serial-killer daddy? Did I miss something?
Your analysis of who Seavers is and who she is to become sounds is either prescient; because, as you acknowledged earlier, the character has yet to be developed enough to be defined; or it’s wishful thinking because you approve of the Seavers/Rossi relationship, and you are infusing the characters with characteristics you envision and hope the writers portray them in that manner.
A few of your comments read as if certain analogies you’ve made are based on “known” or “understood” attributes of the Seavers character; and in fact, they have yet to be explained or alluded to in the actual scripting. For instance, you stated, “Thinking about it, there are quite a few parallels between Seavers and Rossi that go to explain his interest in mentoring her. Apart from the past history they have in common, there's an unconventionality about them -- a not-doing-things-by-the book approach.” What past history do Rossi and Seavers have in common? And aside from putting her life at risk in her first episode, how has Seavers demonstrated that she has a “not-doing-things-by-the-book approach?
Your assessment of Seavers’ style appears to be based on something other than what has transpired on the screen; unless there is another scene I missed that provides the basis for your opinion; and I haven’t missed an episode. Aside from the conclusion she drew in Lauren, I cannot remember Seavers contributing anything more than filler material in the other episodes
cont...
cont...
in which the character has appeared. Of course this is no fault of the character or the actress; however, the conclusions you’ve drawn from those morsels of wisdom don’t quite fit with what has transpired on screen. Unless your conclusions are designed to presuppose a possible direction for the Seavers character using Rossi as the catalyst for her full immersion as a team member, and her ultimate emersion as a “natural” BAU profiler in the “Rossian” mode.
Your discussion about “What is a weak female character” was interesting, especially how you contrasted and compared the Seavers & Prentiss characters; ultimately concluding that because Seavers shows more vulnerability and sensitivity versus Prentiss' feistiness and kickass toughness, Seavers is somehow more “recognizably female.” I’m not sure how to interpret what you mean by Seavers being more recognizably female, even with your relating that you are more like Seavers than Prentiss. I perceive myself as having more of the Prentiss persona, being feisty and kickass when I need to be; and soft, sensitive and even vulnerable depending on the situation.
The Seavers character has only been in a few episodes; and her persona is gradually being developed, defined and molded; whereas Prentiss has been around for more than five seasons. Anyone who’s lived with this character for more than year has seen a diversity of emotions and characterizations from the Prentiss character, from the sensitive and vulnerable, the compassionate and selfless, to the strong, snarky and feisty. She is like most women, ever-changing and adapting to situations that are sometimes tragic and gruesome, and sometimes sad and difficult. And Paget’s portrayal of Prentiss has been confident and nuanced; yet never boring.
In addition, all of the character traits you identified in Seavers are aptly featured in JJ. She is soft, sensitive, and vulnerable; and she too had a relationship with Rossi that could have easily segued into mentor-type relationship with Rossi (or Hotch) if the writers had chosen to do so. It was JJ who told Rossi that she joined the FBI after listening to his presentation at a book signing. So here again, we have another character clearly more defined than Seavers, more nuanced who doesn’t always carry a “BIG” gun; but who no one can describe as being weak. There was opportunity to further develop the JJ’s character; but the writers chose not to do so; which is probably why CBS saw the character as expendable.
You also portend some type of symbiotic relationship between Rossi and Seavers; because apparently Rossi must see some semblance of himself in the Seavers character. However, I distinctly remember Rossi saying the FBI agent, Jill, from Limelight, was more like him—strong, arrogant, driven, and ambitious; as he repeatedly tried to convince her to operate differently. Rossi only rediscovered himself after leaving the FBI for retirement; and later tiring of his endless book tours. So the Seavers persona as portrayed by Rachel Nichols is completely foreign to Rossi. In addition, Rossi’s brand of profiling is less emotional and more instinctive. He can feel it in his gut. Whereas Seavers' emotion is borne out of fear, insecurity and inexperience, because she has yet to develop a real sense of what’s right and what’s wrong as it relates to profiling. She can’t yet trust her instincts because she doesn’t have the reservoir of experiences that any of the other team members have to guide her insights and decision-making. There will always be an uncertainty in her profiling until she acquires the necessary knowledge and experience, which will enable her profiling to become less emotional and more reflective. The scene between her and Rossi did more to highlight her lack of readiness than to showcase an emerging star of the BAU, even though that was not the intended result.
cont...
cont...
You (Uk viewer) also applaud what looks like an apparent new direction that the writers will employ, “Mantegna and Nichols together make a decisive new feature for the writers to deploy and involve in further stories. Another string to their bow. Exciting in this time of change to have this strong flavour to add.” Is this a known fact? Have the writers decided to showcase and give more airtime to the Rossi and Seavers relationship as one of a father/daughter or mentor/mentee? As you stated, “The timing of Emily's lost is guaranteed to underpin the father/daughter quality of the Rossi/Seavers relationship.” If this is the case, I believe it would be a mistake. The writers could enhance the Rossi character by pairing him more with Hotch. To pair Rossi w/Seaver may ensure a further reduction in his presence on screen if the Seavers character continues to be the distraction and target for resentment that it has become for longtime CM fans.
###
@ Gubegirl. I suppose if you're sat down you're having a rest?!
Chesterfield = A place in the East Midlands of England - or something like a couch/sofa, I think?
Garbureator = Is that one of those garbage disposal things in the sink? I've seen it on "the telly".
Queue-jump at your peril.
A friend at work was laughing at me the other day when I was talking about this summer when I plan to park up near the US-Mexico border and walk across to Tijuana (just so I can say I've been to Mexico!). She asked where I was going to leave the car so I mentioned the massive "parking lots" on the US side - as that's what I'd read on the internet that's what had stuck. It's not a car park in the States!!
When in Rome, and all that.
p.s. Sorry to have gone off topic, btw. Definitely agree with what you said about Reid; I hope he'll confide in Morgan, or it's not going to be pretty...
You know what I don't understand? Why some of the people here who really don't like Seaver spend so much time on her. Sdwally writes a 10 page essay, others go out and watch Meskada (a movie you really have to go out of your way to find)...if anything Seaver seems to have stirred up a lot more interest in the show. If she left, what would you guys have to talk about? The spoiler threads before she came never really broke 100 posts, and now they're pushing 800 before they implode. Love or hate Seaver, there still seems to be a fascination with her character. I blame the Internet. Everone's stoking each other's fires. It's really kind of an interesting social experiment...
sdwally
I am a longtime CM fan, and i got no problem with Seaver. So to say longtime fans got problems with her is not true. The once that got problems with her is people that are afraid of change.
I see nothing wrong with changing it up a bit, so the show can get a little different with a new character. Who Hotch himself said "She has potenial"
And Morgan's statement about embracing seaver, I really think that was a stab from the producers, and the actors on the show, to those who don't like her and being so hard on her.
But to each her own.
Not fascinated with her character. Fascinated with getting her character off the show. Because she's ruining my show and I'm gone for S7 if she isn't. RN has poor track record with tv shows. She couldn't keep Alias alive and could get The Inside off the ground. Don't let her kill CM too. And no, I'm not running to watch her other stuff. If her performances on CM are what her work is like then no thanks to the rest. GET RID OF SEAVER.
Typo-- I meant -couldn't- get The Inside off the ground.
sdwally, thanks for the thought that went into that. I will reply to the main things but it'll have to be at later date I'm afraid (nearly midnight here and it wouldn't be right to scribble down words in a rush). I can't promise to write as comprehensively as you though -- stamina will give way! But I didn't want to turn off the computer without acknowledging you.
UK viewer
Couldn't keep Alias alive? HA. The producers decided to euthanize that show because it had run out of storylines. It had nothing to do with RN, in fact a lot of fans really grew to love her character.
In terms of The Inside, that show was dead before it even started. The pilot had to be totally redone, and it was picked up at the last minute. There was no promotion for it, and it ran during the summer. It actually gained viewers every week, but Fox never gave it enough gas to get off the ground. The 13 episodes that were produced have gained something of a cult following.
Yo right back at you gubegirl :)
Anonymous, I think it is a social experiment gone terribly wrong, LOL.. My take is that since AJ's firing and the introduction of this character satisfaction with the show among some viewers has decreased. On a different forum I go to, people have actually signed up specifically to voice their dissatisfaction with this character and trust me it is not a subject they'd like to speak about as the parting words always seem to ring the same, "Get rid of her," or "Get rid of Seaver." I wouldn't call that a fascination but rather a disdain for a character that many have pointed out doesn't make sense for the show. However, what is disturbing is that this dissatisfactoion and disdain for this character mat lead to a dissatisfaction and disdain for the show which would be horrible. Taking the lead from gubgirl, please see Asian Fans succint comment on Seaver, but also, the many ones that outline the issues many see with that character. Now that Prentiss is gone from the show, that has increased and that is not good for the show.
What would we talk about if Seaver were gone? Well, for starters, I think the conversation would be less confrontational and heated and would most likely not lead the blog administrator to have to close thread the 2 times that she has to since Seaver has been added to the show. Yes, conversations have goten heated here before but this is just so negative that it is almost toxic. The debates, conservations, what have you, have gotten out of hand and nasty at times and that is not a good thing, certainly not something that I think most people would want to dive into. To your point about sdwally, I personally like that sdwally takes the time to fully address each point. The initial point that sdwally was addressing was long and as such, I think, required a lengthy reply to cover. The length of the reply doesn't personally bother me.
I want to go back to discussing episodes with characters that all fit in the show, to have debates about story lines and characters that all fit in the show, I want to go to other sites and see similiar types of discussions not disdain for CBS and CM for introducing this character. Also, if you see the type of responses that individuals who seem fascinated with RN and the Seaver character post here, well, then I think you may start to get why there is so much back and forth, but it is not a good back and forth, it is bad and I fear that sooner rather than later, if this character is not removed from the show, the only back and forth that will happen is between channels.
PS will try to use the words 'Seaver' and 'Rossi' in a 1:20 ratio. Or something. Not to stoke fires / tax patience further.
:o)
UK viewer
Let me add to before I get targeted that there has been negative posts made by people with regard to RN and that is not good either.
Also, I wrote "mat" instead of "might,"
What are you talking about Anonymous.. are we going back to the same played out excuse of people are afraid of chnage, don't like Seaver because of AJ and Paget, etc. etc.
If long time fans didn't like change, they would have been gone when the Gideon and Elle characters left the show. The problem many long time fans have with the Seaver character has been more than duly explained here. The problem is the character sucks and doesn't fit within the dynamic of the show. Seaver is an example of bad change that people are resistant to and want to see gone, Rossi and Prentiss are examples of good change that people embraced.
The line about embracing was yet another ploy to get people to accept this character; that ploy was not lost on anybody.
"If she left, what would you guys have to talk about?" What a very RN centered thing to say. Of course you are right. CM should now be The Seaver Show. And promptly be cancelled like Alias and The Inside.
just sayin...
It's not an RN-centered thing to say. It was just an observation at how the forum activity has increased 8x since Seaver's arrival. If nothing else, she has certainly stimulated conversation.
Yes, but look at the tone of the conversation.
Some people want her to stay and some people want her off. Thats the way it is.
The truth is that she has potential like Hotch said because we havent even scratched the surface with her yet.
She will no doubt be a very interesting addition to the show.
She has potential like Hotch?????? Alrighty then......
Brenda I don't think Ben Mikey will understand. People are upset enough to post negative things about their fav show is somehow a good thing? When people are posting they are fast forwarding and about to stop watching, that is not good in my point of view. LOL
The tone indicates that people are interested, passionate, and invested. If people are watching Seaver so closely that they are coming on here and dissecting her every word, movement, and facial feature, I bet the show runners like that better than total passivity.
Brenda the seaver defenders and RN fans don't want her to be trashed. So of course they are standing up to all the hate.
Anonymous said...
"The tone indicates that people are interested, passionate, and invested. If people are watching Seaver so closely that they are coming on here and dissecting her every word, movement, and facial feature, I bet the show runners like that better than total passivity."
No Anonymous, it is not a good thing and quite the opposite, it is a sign that people are frustrated and not happy. That is not a good thing.
just sayin...
Stop calling everyone Ben/Mikey. Not everyone who says something positive about Seaver is Ben or Mikey.
Besides, that post wasn't even positive about Seaver- it was just a neutral observation about the forum activity she's generated.
if they are fast forwarding they never really was pasionate about the show to begin with and they should just stop watching it.
The tone indicates that people are interested? Oh my god. This is like talking to a brick wall. I've had it with the show AND this forum. Thanks CBS for ruining my favorite show and ruining my fandom experience. Goodbye. I am switching to Breakout Kings. Someone tell me when Seaver is gone so I can come back. Bye bye.
Give me a break with the "hate" talk too. It is a fictional character okay, not a real person. If someone is saying nasty things about the actress, that is not nice and should stop, but this "hate" stuff towards a character it is out there. If people love, like or hate a character, it is a fictional character and at the end of the day should be looked upon as such. People hate, like, love fictional characters in a lot of different shows, books, and plays, what is the big deal.
if they are fast forwarding they never really was pasionate about the show to begin with and they should just stop watching it
Right. If I can't stand Seaver then stop watching the show. Got it. Bye!
If people are fast forwarding to bypass a character on a show that they are still willing to see, that is an indication that they are passionate about the show otherwise they would just change the channel instead of taking the time to fast forward. It is just sad that it has come down to that for some fans.
just leaving,
Bye! See you next week when you come back under a different name to write a dissertation about every word Seaver said...
The problem is not the "disseration" as you say, the problem is that some people have such a visceral reaction to this character. That is not positive.
Brenda,
I wasn't talking about the one or two people who "claim" to be fast-forwarding. I was talking about the people who rewind and slow-mo all the Seaver scenes so they can come and debate everything she said.
I haven't heard of anyone doing that. Oh my God, I can't stand watching them once, let alone going over to see them again, and God forbid, slo mo, hell no!
Her scenes are like a band aid that you just want to rip off quickly.
Anyway, do people know if there has been any new word about the TG and SM contract situation?
I'm thinking that the latest anything will probably be said is early June, right?
OK, people, back to a pleasant topic in my on-going attempt to go Seaverless:
My next to fave show will be ending soon with its fifth season: Friday Night Lights. Don't know if you have ever seen it, but it is an NBC /DirecTV show and is a QUALITY show with its main actor and actress getting Emmys last year (and still the show got cancelled - just goes to show.)
ANYWAY: my point is they are turning out their SECOND soundtrack next month! Knowing the show is going away & all, but they feel that strongly about the quality of the songs chosen for their episodes; in an interview I just watched on the website, the couple working on it describes how important music is to the show and it can invoke feelings of sadness and hopefulness simultaneously and just how significant and special that is. Now, you guys, if there is anyway we can get such an effort going to help our show out, let's do it! We already know we have heard special songs that range from old to new, upbeat to melancholy and with mass appeal that ENHANCES (best word I can think of right now) the mood or the direction of the particular episode.
Quickly glancing at the upcoming FNL CD, I see Jakob Dylan for one and I know the first one included "Read My Mind", one of my faves by the Killers (friends of MGG)
Maybe Criminal Minds Fan or one of the other insiders would have ideas on how to get such an effort to get this off the ground? It migh improve the fanbase, ultimately, if CM becomes notable for their music as well as the intriguing stories.
OK. Back to work on my taxes...oops, now you know what I am really supposed to be doing instead of yattering your ears off. I'm going back to listening to my Lifehouse CD and hope to get at least another hour's work in. If any of you see me venturing near this blog before 6 PM PST, fee free to reach thru your screen and tell me to get back to work...:)
And Mary J.: thanks for your vote of continued support.
There wasn't even a value judgment about Seaver in my original comment, so I'm not sure how we got back to debating whether she's good or bad.
My point was, love her or hate her, people like to ,talk about her. You can't argue with data. 800% more forum activity. That doesn't happen if everyone is just ignoring her.
Anonymous, to put a nail in this Seaver conversation, my point at least was that if the tone of the conversation is negative then that is not good in my opinion. The negative nature of the conversation outweigh the volume of the conversation because nothing fruitful is coming out of it but negativity, especially after all drama that has been going on with the show.
gubegirl, I wonder if they have ever thought about doing a soundtrack before. I'm thinking it must have crossed ther minds.
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