Criminal Minds spoiler thread for "The Thirteenth Step" written by Janine Sherman Barrois and starring Joe Mantegna, Thomas Gibson, Paget Brewster, Shemar Moore, Matthew Gray Gubler and Kirsten Vangsness.
**Beware! There will be spoilers in the comments :)
539 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 401 – 539 of 539heyya- I know that she has been signed on as a series regular, the question is for many seasons. I think it is safe to assume that the Seaver character will be there until the end of season 6 which is bad enough, very bad enough, I just don't know if that extends to season 7, or if that is somethng that will be determined by the end of season 6. I think, or should I say, I am praying that the opening of the show will stay the same as it is now until the end of season 6. Depending on what happens with Paget, they may need to change it if she leaves and/or if the Seaver character stays past season 6.
Natasha, the "dialogue" that you did for Ed in your comment hits exactly why I am so angry about the addition of this character. And for the record before it comes again despite people having said it a zillion times, this has nothing to do with Nichols the actress, this has to do with the Seaver character. As others have pointed out, this character was ill-conceived and frankly insults the intelligence of the fans who make up a very substantial part of the viewing audience. Any way you try to slice it, Seaver is not qualified to be part of the BAU. Too many leaps in logic and common sense have to be made to believe that there is anyway in the world of the BAU as it has always been written (6 years running) and sustained from the get go by CM that would credibily allow Seaver to be there. Instead of showing the viewer respect by taking the time out to properly think of and flesh out a character, this was like some last minute thing that had to be taken care of before rushing off to handle business at the spinoff. That is unacceptable.
Ashley is supposed to return as a series regular in episode 15, but I too hope she is not in the opening credits. Kirsten Vangsness wasn't added to the opening credits until the second season. She spent the entire first season as a "guest star", and that's where I feel Rachel Nichols should be as well.
Continued....
When Prentiss and Rossi came on the scene, sure, not everyone embraced them because some were still reeling from Mandy and Lola leaving the show (they chose to leave the show unlike AJ who was fired and Paget who was basically pushed out). I liked Prentiss from the very start, whereas, Rossi had to grow on me a little. But never once, not once, did I feel like I was shortchanged by these characters. From the very beginning, it was evident that these characters were fleshed out and that their individual experience and backgrounds was something that would not only fit into the scheme of the BAU, but would compliment the team. The same most definitely cannot be said about Seaver because of the nature of her character.
Had this character been someone with the experience to be on the team, just like Prentiss and Rossi I would have given the character a chance, but sorry, because someone had to rush off to handle matters at a spin-off leaving us with this non- fitting character and very poorly written episodes this season, again, that is unacceptable. Not only unacceptable, but upsetting and disappoining.
I didn't like this episode because I felt it centered way too much on the unsubs and that the excessive use of violence and sexual themes took away from a more intelligent way of telling the story. Also, after a while, a shirt while, the violence and sexual themes became very boring.
English CM fan, I'm sorry, I didn't catch that you were the English CM fan, I thought you were referring to Timothy because it seems like Timothy is English. Anyway, thanks for clearing that up :)
Thanks for the info Julia and LaShawna, greatly appreciated :)
I really don't want to see her with the other cast in the opening credits. She just looks out of place and it really angers me because she has no business being there. Her character sucks. I'm sorry if that sounds mean but if you compare her to the other female characters, she is by far the weakest and she seems dumb, annoying and needy. Honestly, I can't stand her. I literally cringe every time she opens her mouth or comes on screen. I'll just have to block her out and pretend like she doesn't exist if I want to continue watching the show :P
I agree LaShawna, she should be a "guest star" for the rest of season 6 and hopefully not return for season 7. I have no beef with Rachel, but just cannot tolerate Ashley Seaver. Her character is just ruining everything :'(
After reading all the comments I noticed how a lot of fans want their favorite to have more screen time. Although I agree the screen time is less this season I dont think thats what is really missing. None of the regulars (except Morgan and Reid in one episode) has really had any depth to their roles, whereas in the past seasons each one (and collectively) they have had their "moments" in almost every episode. I didnt think I would miss JJ, but with JJ leaving it was like someone told the writers to throw out the "family dynamics" and keep it strictly a formal work place. No emotional attachments to one another. It not the quantity of the screen time we miss it has become the quality. It would only take 2 minutes of screen time per episode to deliver the type of screen time the fans crave so much.
Seaver is just another emotionless character added to the emotionless group this season, whereas we all have invested interests in the other characters we dont have that affinity to her so its like they added insult to injury. And then to make her character so implauable for the BAU just set it up to be a complete fail. And a big fail it was and is! These great actors dont really even need to act most of the time...just need to say their lines! In a show with mostly sick, scary, and twisted storylines, you need that human element, the counter balance if you will, that the cast provides when they interact with one another. We need to attach ourselves to the good in order to watch the evil. If you take the good emotions away it leaves the fans empty even if it was a good storyline. Please bring back our human cast and take the robotic cast to the junkyard!
Hey Lashawna, I was going to reply the same thing, but you beat me to it :)
I am hoping that this disaster of a character, Ashley Seaver, will not return for season 7. I really, really, hope not. I don't think they have said how long she has been signed on for, but again, I am hoping it is just for season 6.
Let me say it too since it now seems that everyone has to put this disclaimer when speaking about the Seaver character, this has nothing to do with Rachel Nichols, this is specifically targeted to the nonsensical character of Ashley Seaver that she is playing on the show.
Raine, I read your comment a couple of times, and yes, I think you are right. Beyond the amount of screen time that an individual character gets or doesn't get, it boils down to the quality of that screen time. Your right, lately there has not been any emotional attachement, "family" feel between these characters. Seaver being thrown into the mix only exacerbates that truth because she is a wooden character that brings nothing to the table, adding as you say insult to injury. In addition, the implausibility of her character does set this character up for a fail, a complete fail. There is no amount of fancy footwork they can do to repair a character that was irretrievably broken from the onset.
Here is my take on what happen to CM and why Ashley Seaver was added.
Tassler to Ed: “Ed this year we want the ratings to go up in male audience and the younger crowd. This is what we want you to do; fire the blond one with the baby, get a younger, blond actress. “
Ed: “’why would we fire AJ to get another blond actress?!”
Tassler: “Ed, our carefully choosen male viewing panel told us that they do not lust after a mother! “
Ed: “But the women watching our show like JJ and the fact she is a mother and can do this high demanding job.”
Tassler: “Ed, I don’t care, I want a bigger male audience. We need more $”
Ed: “Why? You pay all our cast nothing, you sure are making money out of them!”
Tassler: “We do but that freaking spin off and its Oscar winner ain’t cheap! Plus we need $ to deal with Sheen, we know he will get in deep trouble, we just know it! Speaking of money here is a way to save some, that dark haired woman, I want you to write her in only 17 episodes out of the 24.”
Ed, shakes his head, and thinks: ‘this is bad. I better put more hours on my other projects before this project get busted’
Tassler: “You listening to me Ed?!”
Ed: “Yeah “
Tassler: “Get a younger actress, one that young male will dig”
Ed: “How Young?”
Tassler: “Young enough to bring the 18-34 years old!”
Ed: “What?! But no FBI agent can get into the BAU without a ten year experience, unless they are a genius like Reid!”
Tassler: “Ed I got the solution, here is the ‘Silence of The Lamb’ script, get inspired! And while you are doing this, I got a problem I need you to help me with. That damn spin off is a mess, I fired the showrunner and I need to turn things around….”
Okay, joke aside, I think CM got painted in a corner with Seaver, CBS want a younger demo, all their shows except some comedies are old skewing, CM is their ‘younger’ skewing Drama so Tassler and CBS may have though that adding a new, younger female actress would make more younger viewers, hopefully lots of younger male, watch CM.
(break)
(cont)
Problem is, the show premises makes it impossible to add a 30’s years old be it a woman or a man, because to be a FBI agent in the BAU you need to have at least three years as an agent. If Seaver had been written as a graduate in criminal psychology and then was an agent for three years, her personal background as the daughter of a serial killer, someone who knew first hand what it was to live with a SK, would have make sense for Rossi or Hotch to recruit her. But her as a BAU agent fresh out of school makes no sense as she doesn’t meet what is required to be a BAU agent. Only way I see for CM to keep Seaver, if that is what CBS want they( CM writers) may not have much choice in this, then they would have get Strauss or someone higher up to make some special weaver for her. After all, they must have had one for Reid, who in the real BAU would never have made it, no matter how smart he is, according to real BAU agent and CM consultant and sometime writer, Jim Clemente.
For me, I can live with Seaver being there, I don’t like it, I would prefer JJ would still be there but since AJ is not coming back then I have to move on. What I increasingly cannot live without is less team, a team that feels more like strangers than friends. Will we ever have scenes like we had with JJ, Prentiss and Garcia at the bar and making fun of Brad the REAL FBI agent? Will the writers write another scenes with the team relaxing together over a meal?
Among all the gory and violence the show can bring I need those scenes. What the writers may not get or have forgotten is that the team, all of the characters, are what makes what happen on the screen human. Go back and watch Ashes and Dust, what makes that episode so memorable is that how Hotch react to the burned woman. He does his job, interview her about what happen but what made CM stand apart from other cop shows and made me love CM, was that Hotch stayed with the woman, he lied to her about her dead family because he didn’t want to hurt her even more, Hotch humanity and deep caring comes out even more as he stays with her so she would not die alone. This is the CM I love. The last episode had none of this and it should have with that poor little girl in the middle of the shoot out!
Please Ed, writers, you know how to write, creepy, crazy unsubs, but you need to remember how to write the team as not just work colleagues but as friends too. After all that happened to them in six years, I don’t buy it that they are now only strangers to each other. And I don’t mean just writing cute, friendly scenes with Morgan and Garcia. I mean scenes with Hotch and Reid like we had in Elephant memory and Damage, Morgan and Prentiss getting all excited over a shared favorite writer, Rossi and Hotch talking over dinner at how their marital life turned out etc… This is the CM I miss a lot!
Raine :
I sort of agree with you : it's not a matter of having 'character centric' episodes.
It's about the characters not shining when they are on screen.
Hotch had 'Devil's Night', Rossi had 'Remembrance of Things Past' and Reid had 'Corazon'. Morgan sort of had 'The longest Night' and maybe 'Safe Haven'.
Garcia had 'Reflection of Desire'.
But I really miss the moments when the characters are simply allowed to be outstanding in their own unique way in the episodes.
As a Reid fan I can tell you that 'Corazon' (even if I think the episode is far from being bad) didn't give me the kind of Reid screen time I was expecting to.
And since Reid has become a real afterthought in the episodes it stung.
I miss the moments where he outsmarts everyone, the moments when he's allowed to let his genius show and when it'll play a role in solving the case.
Reid's capacity are simply outstanding but we almost never see them anymore.
I guess I simply miss the scenes when we see he's unique, truly unique (a one in a billion genius so to speak) and not just a random guy.
An episode doesn't even need to be 'Reid centric' to give us that. Just don't push Reid in the background too much and let his mind work like we know it can work.
Ha ha.. a Long time Criminal Minds Fan, your "Ed and Tassler" dialogue was soooooo funny! Unfortunately, what is not so funny is that I think that is exactly what may have happened any why Seaver is on CM.
My problem with making some exception for Seaver is that unlike Reid who was recruited and encouraged to join the BAU by Gideon because of his superior intellect, Seaver has none of that going on for her, definitely nothing that would warrant any such exception. Basically, she is like any garden variety cadet in the academy. There is nothing about her character that would make someone stop in their tracks and say "Wow, we have got to advocate for this person being on the team." With Reid, I could definitely see that, but again, with Seaver there is nothing.
The "unique insight" of having a serial killing dad came into play during the first episode, which resulted in a big fat nothing. It didn't contribute anything to the case and hasn't since then. Having a pyscho killing dad is not something that is going to give you some edge over anyone else who is more qualified than you to join the BAU. It is a tragic childhood and that's it. All of the characters have tragic childhoods, that is no big whoop.
Yes, Leanne, that is my fundamental problem with them writing some possible exception storyline for Seaver to join the team. She has nothing that would outweigh anybody with the experience to be there.
Going back to Reid, now he, has that in spades, and so with Reid an exception is plausible because a unit that deals with delving into the minds of criminals would want someone who has that superior intellect on their team. The sad thing is that we haven't seen much of that superior intellect at play lately from Reid, but I digress.
If the show feels like it has to add a charcater, then definitely Seaver should be not be there for season 7, but rather someone who is fit to be there.
I really didn't like this episode. There wasn't one thing I liked about it. Normally when I don't like an episode, there are still one or two things I like, even if it's just one line or one scene. Not with this one. This was a total failure. Waste of time.
As for Seaver. Maybe we should have been warned. In „The Fight“ we learned, that the blond chick was recruited by Sam Cooper right out of the academy. Now we get Hotch recruiting Seaver right out of the academy? Really? To blond BAU agents, with the same back story? Last time Hotch and Seaver interacted was when es was dressing her down, why would he be so eager to get her on his team now? That said, I'm willing to give Seaver another chance,but I want a plausible explanation why she would be hired for the BAU and I don't want it to be so easy for her and just be everyones favorite person (what happened to Rossis doubts about her hanging around?).
And please: change her looks! Give her a different hair cut or hair color whatever. Having her look just like JJ is to frustrating, and it's a constant reminder that AJ was fired to replace her with a younger actress.
I know Christmas is over, but here is my wish list: I want the family moments back, I want Hotch to be a strong leader again, I want to feel that Thomas Gibson is the lead actor of this show and not just an supporting actor, I want the team to be elite at their job and caring with each other again.
Melly, I had forgotten about Cooper and that agent. But the thing is, that is supposed to be some "rogue" FBI team that not only has an implausible academy girl, but it has some implausible sniper British dude (only Americans can join the FBI), an ex-con (can't have a felony record and join the FBI), not sure what Garofolo's character will be like, but do you get where I am going with this. For that team, that dynamic, that kind of implausibility fits because they are outside of the FBI norm, unlike CM that works within the construct of the agency.
You said:
"Last time Hotch and Seaver interacted was when es was dressing her down, why would he be so eager to get her on his team now? That said, I'm willing to give Seaver another chance,but I want a plausible explanation why she would be hired for the BAU and I don't want it to be so easy for her and just be everyones favorite person (what happened to Rossis doubts about her hanging around?)."
Don't hold your breath for a plausible explanation because theer won't be one. Just as theer wasn't one for Seaver getting up there and giving part of the profile with the team, and even further back than that, when after shewing her out for her antics in the "25 to life" episode, Hotch gives the ok for her to complete her remedial training at the BAU. Yeah, I wouldn't be hjolding my breath for any plausible explanations Melly.
Bottom line, if they are going to add a new character to the show, then they need to go back to the drawing board, scrapping Seaver and bringing in someone that fits to be there.
Sorry for the typos.. when I type fast I tend to make a lot of typing errors. Hope people understood what I wrote.
My two cents about Seaver will be brief in comparison to all of the well-thought out and on point Seaver comments which have been made so far.
It seems that whenever the topic of this character comes up it is like one has to play a game of Twister to explain how she can possibly be on the team. Have we had to do that with any other character? No, because those other characters had what it took to be on the team. Either they had it experience wise, or in the case of Reid, had it exception wise. Seaver does not and that is why, just like in the game of Twister, there is a whole lot of contortiing going on to try and fit this character into a space she naturally does not belong.
Assuming that CBS/ABC/CM actually read this, and are still reading this being that the episode is over, I hope they will have the guts to admit that this character was not a good idea and not keep her beyond season 6. They should keep the team as is provided that Paget stays, or they should sit down and thoughtfully flesh out a character that does belong on the team.
I’ve read many of the 400 posts and enjoyed the diverse thoughts on the latest episode. For me it was better than most this season but far from the great episodes I love to watch over and over from S1 – 5. Right now I’m currently looking forward to the Thomas Gibson chat this afternoon and I hope that some of the questions and or comments will let him know just how much we love and miss Hotch this season.
My 2 cents and agree with many of the earlier posts:
1) I’d hate to see Paget leave the show; she has been an AWESOME addition to the show from the day she arrived.
2) I’m NOT looking forward to having the Seaver character join the team as a regular; agree with many of you that the character was just poorly written from the start and why let AJ Cook go to hire in a look a like?
3) As much as I enjoy Shemar and his portrayal of Morgan; it’s been too, too much this season. It didn’t make any sense to me that Hotch would hand him the phone for negotiating…WHAT?
4) I miss Andrew Wilder and Aaron Zelman as writers and producers on CM, they were the most in tune with Hotch. Thomas definitely has the talent to totally lead this show but it is an ensemble cast and right now I really miss him leading the team. Should Hotch’s lack of leadership of late become a storyline for him to turn things around in the BAU, I hope his first decision is to boot the new girl.
5) Why CBS stands behind a trouble making star that boosts about making $2 million a week and gets away with such bad behavior but shows up for work; speaks volumes about TPTB.
6) I’ll absolutely STOP WATCHING CM if Thomas Gibson is not part of the cast; he is why I started watching in the first place. I really like the idea of a light hearted cop show for him and Paget it’s a great idea, I told my daughter that I’d like to see TG do a Courtship of Eddies Father type show, he has such a great comedic talent.
Have a great Sunday afternoon all! Mary J.
Does anyone know if they read the comments beyond the point of the date the episode aired? I hope so because there are a lot of valid points and concerns with the show written here.
A Long Time Criminal Minds fan, I also enjoyed your skit between Ed and Nina. I wouldn't doubt that is how things happened, but I think that the blame, if not most of the blame, for the Seaver character lies squarely on the back of the writers at CM. Perhaps they were told to introduce a younger, blonder version of JJ, but I believe they could have done this in a more credible way, not the she gets to be on the team because her daddy is a serial killer. Seaver has absolutely no distinguishable assets that would catapult her above any qualified individual, absolutely none at all. To even begin to attempt to explain her implausible presence on the team is like Warren said, it is like playing a game of Twister. Warren, I too hope someone at CBS/ABC/CM is reading these comments and has the guts to admit they made a mistake in regards to this character.
If they have to go young and blonde, then they should do so in a credible way and instead of carrying Seaver into season 7, bring in a character that is not nonsensical. However, I personally find it deplorable that female characters are treated in this manner.
was a GREAT episode!!! I'm scared to see what's gonna happen to Emily though....
:(
From English CM Fan (actually 50/50 Scottish / English)
So CM writers. The one thing that ALL threads have in common is that everyone has a favourite character and would like to see that character shine but NOT at the expense of any of the other characters. Which means fans watch the show for the character interaction, the character personalities, character strengths and weaknesses, the character storylines and how they all bring that to the team and to profiling. Which means that CM's success is really in the main characters and that is why the writing is so important to those characters. Yes, we all want great plots and a good story to unfold round the catching of the unsub, but most fans are following the main characters and the most popular episodes are the ones that unfold around them. It doesn't mean they have to have the entire storyline that episode. Each main character has a background / gift they bring to the profiling team and that can be how they shine. I just watched a rerun of fight and whilst it was a good episode I hardly saw Garcia, JJ or Reid. They all had about 2 lines each. Too many of those in a row for any of the main characters good episode or not is not ideal, it makes those characters look like they are just observers and then fans get wrestless.
I didn't realize that Nina Tassler would actually speak to Ed Bernero.
Who knew?
What if Ed actually thought all of this was a good idea - his name was on the episode that Seaver first appeared in, wasn't it? What if this is not a weird network conspiracy but some bizarre producer/writer decision that was sold to the network? Doesn't that ever happen?
I think that if this show loses any more characters or gets sillier than it is now they might as well bring back Gideon and Elle and let the show really jump the shark by revealing that they were secret lovers and are now returning to run the BAU
When I started watching this show, I loved it. The team dynamic was great, they didn't really overshadow eachother and worked with harmony.
When JJ left, I was sad, up until that point they had a great team chemistry going, why mess with perfection? But I still hung on, despite the feeling that things were starting to go downhill. After she left there was a gap, and it threw the team out of balance. Then they added in an unbelievable character. Not happy but I'm still watching
Now it is at the end for Prentiss as well, this arc probably spells the end, though I am hoping she can hang in there, maybe witness protection until they can find a way to fix the mess, I may continue watching.
This episode made me question why I still watch. I get the unsub point of view episode I do, but this on was crazy. If I wanted to watch a show about drunk spree killers, I'm sure that I could find one. I watch this show for what's left of the BAU team, (Hotch, Reid, Rossi, Prentiss, Morgan, and Garcia) I was deeply disappointed by the fact I didn't see them as much. Reid got stuck at the station, Rossi got a one liner in the beginning, thank goodness Seaver wasn't there so Rossi could get 10 secs. in, and as someone put it earlier Hotch was like a secretary. Morgan did get the most so I won't complain, since I'm happy to see that he's still around. Prentiss got a little air time, since she was riding with Morgan. Until she had to duck out when she was shot at, after that she kind of vanished. At least she's going to get some time with her final arc.
Bring back the real BAU team please, this is ridiculos.
"My 2 cents and agree with many of the earlier posts:
1) I’d hate to see Paget leave the show; she has been an AWESOME addition to the show from the day she arrived.
2) I’m NOT looking forward to having the Seaver character join the team as a regular; agree with many of you that the character was just poorly written from the start and why let AJ Cook go to hire in a look a like?
3) As much as I enjoy Shemar and his portrayal of Morgan; it’s been too, too much this season. It didn’t make any sense to me that Hotch would hand him the phone for negotiating…WHAT?
4) I miss Andrew Wilder and Aaron Zelman as writers and producers on CM, they were the most in tune with Hotch. Thomas definitely has the talent to totally lead this show but it is an ensemble cast and right now I really miss him leading the team. Should Hotch’s lack of leadership of late become a storyline for him to turn things around in the BAU, I hope his first decision is to boot the new girl.
5) Why CBS stands behind a trouble making star that boosts about making $2 million a week and gets away with such bad behavior but shows up for work; speaks volumes about TPTB.
6) I’ll absolutely STOP WATCHING CM if Thomas Gibson is not part of the cast; he is why I started watching in the first place."
I really couldn't say this any better, Mary J. Thank you for speaking what is obviously on a lot of fans' minds. I too, started watching the show for Gibson's Hotch and would definitely walk away if he were to leave.
I know that Ed was the "mastermind" behind the Seaver character neuroticjew, so maybe it was all Ed driven and not so much something that the network whipped him into creating.
If that is the case, then he definitely can fix this by getting rid of the Seaver character, and in its place creating a credible character. However, this will require that he peel himself away from the spin-off.
Personally, if Paget stays, I think the show can work just fine with the original cast. There is no need, in my opinion, to add a new character, just work on getting the writing back in shape and take it from there. In the event that Paget does leave, then I think Ed will need to peel away from the spin-off and whatever other project he is concentrating on these days and create a character that is up to snuff for CM. Otherwise, I think Gideon and Elle revealing that they were secret lovers back to run the BAU will fit in just fine for what the show will most likely look like as this season continues and it enters into the next season with continued bad writing and Seaver.
What a pity that after the season and a half of not seeing role in the character of Spencer Reid, the only way seen by the "writers " was sick. The backbone of any good program is in the script, that is the reason that CM became a success and it remained for nearly five seasons, but this season that will be remembered by fans as the most pathetic . CM will continue watching because I want to see how it ends, but honestly I lost hope that the writers think of a good story that is just a bit closer to what was the show for years.
Hmmm...I wonder since Seaver's best qualification for the BAU is that she can carry a teammate over a wall in double quick time, that in an upcoming episode Reid will suffer a incapacitating headache while they are out by themselves and she will have to carry him over the river and thru the woods...to get him help!
Anonymous said...
"Hmmm...I wonder since Seaver's best qualification for the BAU is that she can carry a teammate over a wall in double quick time, that in an upcoming episode Reid will suffer a incapacitating headache while they are out by themselves and she will have to carry him over the river and thru the woods...to get him help!"
LOL, Anonymous, I wouldn't doubt it. Since having the serial killing dad "unique perspective" thing didn't, and can't, pan out as a valid qualification for the BAU, and the only card she's got left to play is that she did well on the obstacle course, I think she'll be carrying Reid and the other team members over the river and thru the woods to safety pretty soon :)
LOL, Anonymous and Teresa! The two things they highlighted about this character are so ridiculously off the mark for what it would take to join the BAU.
Do they really think that they are fooling anyone with this character? The only thing they are accomplishing with Seaver, on top of insulting the viewers intelligence, is putting them off. I really hope this character does not return for season 7. This show needs to get back on track and Seaver is not going to help them do that.
Hoping to get some solid news soon on whether Paget plans to return for season 7.
I am one of those fans of this great TV series..
You know what is so sad and amazingly frustrating is that Tassler in all of her "greatness" butchered this show to bits, a show that there was nothing wrong with prior to the network firing the writers and AJ, plus messing with Paget, is that Tassler has done nothing but support the antics of Charlie Sheen. Good going Tassler, now they are going to have to shut-down production of Sheen's show which is projected to cost the network 250 million in ad revenues. I've never seen Sheen's show and I don't plan to; the point is that Tassler has done everything to build up his show and in contrast destroy this one.
I hope that this Sheen disaster will cause someone at the network level to take a second look at what was done to CM and begin to support this show the way it should be supported. A great way of doing that would be to get some of the fired writers back, plea with Paget to stay and ax the Seaver character (nothing against the actress, but that character is all wrong for CM and will do nothing but push the show further back). I would love it if they also had the presence of mind to get AJ back, but I am not sure they have the capacity to humble themselves like that, or if AJ could ever trust them enough to come back.
I felt I was in mourning after this episode. I don't want to stop watching but may have to. I was attracted to this show in the beginning because of the great ensemble cast, the quirky characters and the great writing. I am remembering Haley's funeral when Hotch used a quote from The Pirates of Penzance, very original and totally appropriate.
If I had just been flicking through the channels and had come across this episode without ever having seen the show I would kept on going thinking it was just another generic network cop show with too much violence. I miss my people. I especially miss Hotch. He has always been very serious but always with a strong presence, no doubt about who was in charge. In the last couple of episodes it's as if he has collasped inwards.
Well, it looks like from a recent article, and the tweet from AJ Cook who is coming back for one episode the season that Paget is out. Here is what AJ Cook's tweet said:
"Heading back to Criminal Minds for @pagetpaget final episode. @GUBLERNATION is directing. It's going to be GOOD/WEIRD/SAD!!!"
That means that the cast will be: Hotch, Reid, Morgan, Garcia, Rossi, and Seaver... Bye bye Criminal Minds, cannot watch the show after that happens.
WTH.. Yolanda, what... Oh hell no, CBS/CM really jumped out of the window with this one. Count me in as another one who is not returning for season 7. I can't believe this, I mean, damn, they could have at least gotten someone with some cred to take Prentiss' spot, not this stupid Seaver character.
I am sooooooo out for season 7CBS/CM, so out!!!!!
I can't believe that we are actually losing Paget and the only female profiler left will be a freaking cadet with no business being part of this team.
At least MGG gets to direct the last episode of Paget, with AJ in it.
Coincidently, that will be my last episode too.
Unbelievable, CBS. You've managed to kill a 5 years successful show in only one.
I'm deeply saddened that Paget is actually leaving. First JJ, now Emily. What has CBS done to an amazing show like CM? I want to be happy that JJ will be back, but I can't because in all likelihood it will be for Emily's funeral. Now if JJ was returning permanently I would've been ecstatic, but that's not the case, she's not returning for good, and we'll be losing Emily too, and we'll be left with Seaver whom I cannot tolerate. Why CBS why? Why Ed did you create Ashley Seaver? In a way it's good Paget is leaving, it'll be easier for me to stop watching. Given the direction the show has taken recently, maybe it's AJ and Paget who will have the last laugh. CM is like a train waiting to crash. Whilst I love the rest of the cast (Thomas, Joe, Kirsten, MGG and Shemar) these two ladies were the heart and soul of the show without which the body cannot function. I wish them both all the best for the future and hope they move on to bigger and better things. They're too talented not to.
OH MY GOD!!!!!!!! How stupid can CBS and CM be??? They knew that there was a strong possibility that Paget was leaving the show, so what do they do, write in the STUPIEST replacement EVER for her, Seaver!. NO DOUBT ABOUT IT, once Paget is gone from the show, I am gone too!!!! You had the chance to write in someone decent and you didn't, so bye bye. This is just so ridiculous and sad!!!!
I am bumming big-time! I had so hoped that someone would listen and that Paget would know how much she was loved by the fans and that something would be worked out!
Now it sounds as tho' AJ will be returning - and I'll bet it's not for a farewell party, that Emily is moving on to other, better things, ala JJ, but poss her funeral??? I cannot stand the thought.
I will have a hard time ever watching this show after Paget's departure unless they get rid of the Seaver character and bring in a credible agent, preferably a competent female (or two!)
Maybe if Emily gets killed, Seaver can be with her as her trainee, and could be killed, too? Wishful thinking, but not too outrageous a thought?
That would be the only saving grace. And how much of Garcia will we be seeing if she works for the SB team as well? We will have a totally male dominated team with no soft edges, and much as I love all our men, that's just not going to cut it with me. I liked the females in important and meaty roles that were not only role models but well-loved and appreciated by the entire team as well as us fans.
Bummer...
The writing stinks, Paget is out, and Seaver is in.. Adios Criminal Minds, Adios!!!!!!!
After Paget's exit, I am out!
This is like a bad dream that keeps on going. First, they fire the show's best writers, then they fire AJ, then they basically push Page out (and now she is definitely leaving)and instead of a strong, credible female character taking her place, we get stuck with Seaver. Wow, this is a nightmare.
Gonna stick around to see Paget's final episode, then it is goodnight for me and Criminal Minds. Thank God there is ion nad A&E.
It stink that Paget is leaving. Thanks to Tassler and her damn spin off!
Why there are no statement on this from Ed or someone from CBS?
The only reason I will still watch CM after Paget last episode will be for Thomas Gibson, if he leaves so will I!
What a mess CBS did, two cast members leaving, Ed wrote an unbelieable character, we get episodes which only focus on the unsubs, no team moment anymore, the focus is only on one character to a point that all the others have to dissapeared in order for that character to 'shine'.
What happen to my favorite show? Where is Ed in all this? Why is all this happening? Who is at the helm of CM? Who can answer/emplain any of this?
A very concern CM fan
I kind of knew that this day was coming but I thought that Criminal Minds would be better prepared for it. Guess I was wrong because Paget is out and in her place we get stuck with Seaver. Correction, I am not going to get stuck with Seaver because if that character stays on the show, I am seriously checking out of Criminal Minds. No way that that character can even come close to filling Prentiss' shoes- she can't even put in one toe. I love the men on the show, but I cannot support that the only (or one of the only if they decide to write in another female agent) is going to be Seaver. Oh, and yeah, don't hold your breath waiting t hear anything or any value from Ed beacuse he is busy with the spin-off a new project of his that was greenlighted by ABC.
I hope they make a dedictaed thread for thsi topic because I am so cutting and pasting what I wrote here on that thread.
Thanks Nina Tassler for destroying a perfectly wonderful show.
I seriously can't believe what I am reading WTH, WTH!!!! It is like someone at CBS and/or CM can't stand that this show was good so they have to do everything possible to ruin it and in its place make the spin-off the go to show.
I will not watch this show once Paget leaves. I love the guys (Reid is my favorite) but I will be to angry to watch the show, or rather, upset at what I know the show will quickly become when Seaver is the only female agent on the show.
GOD, I hate that they wrote this character in the show, and no for the 100 zillionth time it has nothing to do with AJ. It is because this is the weakest character ever, not to mention the most unbelievable and ridiculous, and to think with Prentiss gone this cadet Seaver is going to get a lot more screen time. GOD, why couldn't they have come up with a better character. I would have been upset about Paget, but could have held out to see what the deal was with a credible character, now forget it. Ion and A&E for me.
UGH, Nina Tassler and Ed Bernero!!!!!!!!
I just can't stick around to see what this show will become with the cast that is entering into season 7. I love the guys and Garcia, but hell, Seaver no way, what a disaster!
Thanks for ruining a fantastic show Nina Tassler and Ed Bernero, the "dynamic duo."
Okay, really.. I am so done with CM, and can someone tell the new actress to stop tweeing about Paget leaving the show before Paget herself has even had the chance to make a statement. God!!!
Thank you Peggy, I agree with you.
Paget is keeping it quiet and the whole fandom is mourning right now and there she is:
RachelNichols1
@poucelina79 I've read the script...her departure is RAD!
Is it, Rachel? Is it going to be RAD? Totally RAD or just regular RAD?
Gosh!
You know what is going to kill me? That they are probably setting up this whole show, like they did with the 100th episode, and then by the next episode everything is going to go back to normal like nothing happened and they are going to pan out to the BAU table and there's going to be Seaver, like she actually belongs.
The least they can do for us is kill this ridiculous character that doesn't belong too.
Too harsh?
TPTB don't care for the Prentiss character, I don't care for their little filler either.
What do I care, I'll probably be way too upset to ever watch this show again after Paget is FORCED out anyway!
Okay, so this is how it is going to go down. Alright, Paget, I am with you all of the way and will support whatever project you move onto next. I have no doubt she will rock whatever she does moving forward!
Nichols, yeah, @poucelina79 I've read the script...her departure is RAD!
Rad, you say, so it was rad how CBS messed with Paget, how they messed with AJ and the writers, rad, ok. How about this for rad, as soon as Paget takes one step off of the show, I am walking away with her. Is that rad enough for you? No, how about, the fact that almost every show you appeared in, including one of my favorites, Alias tanked shortly after you arrived on the show, is that rad? No, well, how about the fact that your character on the show is so terrible that it is bound to effect the other characters. Did that reach your level of "radness?"
Next to Prentiss, Reid is my favorite character on the show, but I refuse to stick around to see what disaster will come of his character once Prentiss is out for good and he and the other male leads have to give screen time to Seaver.
Let me say this, if you think that Seaver being a full-time field agent on the show is not going to effect the quality of the other characters, I'm sorry, but you are sadly mistaken. Whereas you may have been able to block her out before, there will be none of that now. And being that this is an ensemble show, yeah, them not being effected is not going to happen.
Thanks for destroying CM CBS and Ed Bernero.
I'll continue to watch CM as long as Thomas sticks around, but don't get me wrong, he goes, I go.
CBS, you suck!
And Ed, start listening to the fans while the show still has some!
CBS should write a show called "How to kill a show in 6 seasons," they already have enough material for it...
Lisa M., you hit it right on the mark. Reid is my favorite character but I cannot, do not, want to imagine what suck fest his character will have to be subjected to when Seaver is on the scene full-time. The writing is already circling the toliet, and now with Prentiss leaving, they are going to splash this new character into our faces even more in an attempt to forget that Prentiss was ever on the show meaning a diminished showing for the rest of the cast and more out of character writing for their roles.
I really hate CBS, Nina Tassler and Ed Bernero. I will never again watch any show that is aired on CBS. What you have done to CM is beyond words. Paget is right to get off this sinking ship while she still can make it safely to land.
Good luck Paget! You are wonderful and I will defintely look out for whatever project you do in the future.
Thanks for throwing CM under the bus Nina Tassler, CBS execs, and Ed Bernero for his role in creating the Seaver character.
Once Paget leaves, I'm leaving. Watching CM on ion now, that is the way I want to remember CM, not as the crap fest that it will surely become once Paget leaves the show and you are going to highlight "Super Cadet Seaver" all over the place.
I too second the motion to silence her stupid tweets about Paget leaving the show. They are tasteless and really should be left for Paget to discuss, not her. Fans would like to hear about her departure from her, not Nichols.
Are you kidding me, this Nichols chick is tweeting up a storm about how Rad Paget's exit is going to be, how sad she is that Paget is leaving, blah, blah, blah.. First of all, she just got there so how sad can she really be that Paget is leaving? And FYI, the stupid character she plays is the catalyst for all of this stuff going down, starting with AJ.
I think she really needs to stop all of this tweeting and leave the talk about the Prentiss character leaving up to Paget. On another note, I too will stop watching CM when Prentiss leaves not because one character will necessariy make or break my viewing of the show, but because this is the final straw in a bunch of slaps CBS and CM has delivered so far. First, the insanely bad writing so far this season, then to lose not 1 but 2 characters, and now the remaining cast is going to have to share screen time with the Seaver character. I'm sorry, but that is where my viewership ends.
For those who will still watch the show, I hope that this show makes it past season 7, but I doubt it, I really doubt it.
I wish Paget all of the best!
Hey, Bernero,
Want to make it up to the fans?
Hire AJ and Paget for your new show.
No, not CM: second-hand embarrassment (aka the spin-off), I mean your two ladies cop show.
Please?
I hope they start a thread just for what is going on now because I will repeat what I am saying here there.
Once Paget is out, I am out. Brianna, you said it best for me. My leaving will be for the reasons you will; CBS and Ed Bernero (thanks for Seaver by the way ED,
$%$%$$$) have done everything in their power to destroy this show and I don't want to stick around to see the final nail in the coffin.
If this show makes it to season 8, well, I would be surprised. Hate you CBS, Nina Tassler, and Ed Bernero! Thanks for destroying CM!
Yes, I agree that Rachel Nichols should stop with all of her twitters.
No, I don't care to know all of what she's saying/feeling.
All I know is that today we got really sad official news and we do not need part of the problem with this season to be all vocal and sentimental about it.
I care what Paget has to say, and she has kept quiet.
I thank AJ Cook for her twitter, because I get to prepare myself for that episode, the sooner I realize it's really happening, the easier will get not to come back.
I don't even feel the need to see anyone else from the cast posting about this, because we know (and care) how they feel.
But I would like some explanation from TPTB and especially from the producers and writers, since they claim to really care about what the fans think and especially from Mr. Edward Bernero, who was so loud and clear when Patinkin left, but has kept quiet during all of these problems.
Either way, I'm heartbroken. This used to be my favorite show, above all of the others, but I really think that I can no longer support it.
It's just too much.
I predict that once Paget's final episode is aired, Criminal Minds will face a major drop in its ratings. The ratings would go so low that it might get canceled soon, be it this year or next year (I'm betting on a seventh season, but with the way things are going, that or this season could be the last.) I don't forsee an eighth season, which would be a disappointment because I wanted to work on the show, as a writer (all of my good CM ideas will have to be published as fan fic, to see what could have been).
I'm so glad JJ will be back for one episode.
Even if it's just so she can rescue Emily from this sinking ship.
Maybe she can come back next season to take Reid too after they make him schizophrenic.
And come back for Rossi when he is releasing a new book and decides to go back into retirement.
And then for Morgan when he decides to step up in his carrier.
And finally for Hotch when he decides to leave his sad life for a life in comedy.
The team? Don't worry, if Seaver can be a profiler now, imagine next season, there's not going to be any need for anymore profilers with her there.
Good luck show, you are going to need it.
Wow, saw the Nichols Twitter stream and wow, she is truly clueless. Someone actually, nicely, suggested that she please stop tweeting about Paget as it is not coming across well to some fans, and she totally didn't get it.
Directing hate tweets and the like against Rachel Nichols is counterproductive and mean, because SHE is not responsible for the crapfest that is AJ and Paget's departure. However, on that note, just because I have no issue with Rachel as a person, does not mean I have no issue with Ashley as a character. As long as I do not like the way Ashley is written, I will continue to express that opinion. The two are not the same, and I am not going to apologize for disliking Ashley, nor will I just "get over it and realize that changes had to be made" as some of Rachel's fans said. I get that they were targeting people who were attacking Rachel herself for this situation. However, MOST people who don't like Ashley are not Rachel haters, and have gone out of their way time and again to state that fact.
Yolanda said.... "That means that the cast will be: Hotch, Reid, Morgan, Garcia, Rossi, and Seaver... Bye bye Criminal Minds, cannot watch the show after that happens."
I completely agree. My favourite is Reid, I admit I watch the show mostly for him (it used to be for him and the 'family' aspect but that's all gone now) but I don't think I will be watching anymore after Prentiss goes and we are stuck with that dreadful Seaver character. Not even Reid/MGG can save the show for me when Seaver is there.
This is a truly sad day for me. Don't get me wrong, I knew almost positively that Paget was leaving, but still thinling and knowing for sure are two separate things.
Anonymous said...
"I completely agree. My favourite is Reid, I admit I watch the show mostly for him (it used to be for him and the 'family' aspect but that's all gone now) but I don't think I will be watching anymore after Prentiss goes and we are stuck with that dreadful Seaver character. Not even Reid/MGG can save the show for me when Seaver is there."
Agreed, Reid is my favorite character as well, but you are right, not even Reid will be able to salvage the show once Seaver is front and center. Because like Lisa M. said...
"Let me say this, if you think that Seaver being a full-time field agent on the show is not going to effect the quality of the other characters, I'm sorry, but you are sadly mistaken. Whereas you may have been able to block her out before, there will be none of that now. And being that this is an ensemble show, yeah, them not being effected is not going to happen. "
Lisa M., unfortunately this is true and something that will not ba able to avoided. More unbelievable scenes like her profiling with the team are coming, more "insights" that there is just no plausible way for her to have are around the bend, and just as some have expressed that having that character there is a constant reminder of what was lost with JJ, the same will be said with respect to Prentiss because it is not feasible that this type of character be placed in the position to try and fill anyone's elses spot when that character has no right to a spot herself.
LasHawna, it is counterproductive to send nasty tweets to the actress, Time and again, people here and elsewhere have clearly stated that their issue is with the Seaver character, not Rachel Nichols. I don't know what specific tweet you may be referring to, but I saw the thread that Anonymous mentioned where the individual politely suggested that perhaps she should not be tweeting about Paget's departure as some fans are trying to process her leaving, and because even though she knows Rachel doesn't intend for it to be mean-spirited, others are not perceiving it that way and so maybe she should not say anything for her sake. I think that is reasonable, but the problem is, that now, more than ever before, there will be those who immediately take offense to that type of statement, miscontruing it as hate toward the actress.
continued from last post...
If Ed Bernero himself can't distinguish between those who have a problem with the Seaver character because of the ill-conceived way that it was written and introduced versus those who don't like the actress herself because they feel she has something to do with AJ and Paget's depature, I doubt some fans will be able to do the same. This is a whole big mess that I lay squarely at the feet of CBS for horribly ruining the cast dynamics and Ed Bernero for leaving the show with such an inadequate female character.
I know that Paget will be successful, just as I know that AJ will and am sure that we will (if we haven't already) hear about the great things being produced by the fired CM writers. Season 7, I strongly believe, will be CM's last season. But whether it is or isn't is of little consequence to me because as I stated before I will not be able to bear watching what will become of the show, with that team line-up, season 7.
Well, at least Paget's last episode because she got KICKED OFF the show is going to be RAD!
And at least we got to spend a whole night reading about how Rachel Nichols feels about this.
But you know whose feelings I would like to hear about: PAGET's.
So, no Rachel, it's not personal, but could you try to make this a little less about you?
Thanks.
I have to agree with Vanessa. I was curious and went to check out the Twitter communication between the girl and Rachel. This girl's tweet were nothing but respectful, her tone was not hateful. She sincerely was trying to get across that perhaps right now is not the time to be tweeting about Paget's exit as the news is still fresh and fans are trying to cope. I know this may sound dramatic, but in a way, fans are "mourning" the eventually loss of Paget, and in a larger sense, the loss of this show (loss of good writing and team dynamics). Right now, I believe, is not the correct time to be tweeting about how "Rad" an episode is going to be. Like the tweeter said, the episode will speak for itself and the hope is that Paget herself will come out and address the fans.
Personally, I believe the other cast members who I am sure are getting fan tweets about this have decided at least at this point to remain silent about it. As the time approaches, or maybe immediately after, they may or may not chose to come out and say something. But I think them saying something at whatever point they decide to will be taken differently than her saying something now; that is just the truth.
I fear that I will not be able to watch the show coming into season 7for the reasons Lisa M. stated and Anonymous stated (the Anonymous that mentioned Reid). Thanks guys for posting that, it helps to be able to point to your comments.
Anonymous said...
"Well, at least Paget's last episode because she got KICKED OFF the show is going to be RAD!
And at least we got to spend a whole night reading about how Rachel Nichols feels about this.
But you know whose feelings I would like to hear about: PAGET's.
So, no Rachel, it's not personal, but could you try to make this a little less about you?
Thanks."
Yes, Anonymous!!! It is not personal against Rachel, but dang, Paget hasn't even come out and said something about this. I am interested in hearing from Paget about the episode, not Rachel, I mean, Rachel has communicated that she believes it is going to be RAD, but really there is nothing particularly RAD about what is happening to the show right now.
Right now is not the time to be tweeting about this regardless of who is asking for details. I am sure that this is an incredibly tough time for Paget, her fellow long-term cast mates and the crew of the show.
A word from Paget or one of the original CM crew would be appreciated but I understand that right now is probably not a good time for any of them to be talking in public about this. Just as we are trying to process this, so are they. In a short period of time they have lost 2 friends on the show, not just coworkers.
Well, if by RAD Rachel Nichols means heartbreaking, overwhelming, unfair, unnecessary, disrespectful, mean and show-killer than I agree, Paget's last episode will definitely be RAD.
RAD, RAD, RAD, RAD, RAD....
Unbelievable, CBS.
Unbelievable, Criminal Minds.
Alana, girl, I feel you. There is nothing "RAD" about this scenario. I'm hoping that the episode will be good, that is the least that Paget deserves after the way she was kicked in the butt by CBS, but for the new actress to be tweeing like "Oh yeah, it is going to be RAD, fantastic, great exit," um, what. First of all, the circumstances surrounding Paget's decision to leave are upsetting, frustrating and crazy. This is not a happy "Wow, she is going to do a kick butt last episode" type of event, it is more like, "Wow, can't believe that Paget was pushed out like that. What a sad day for fans and the show. Hope her last episode will be done well."
Second of all, I don't care if Obama is asking her for details, she needs to zip it and let what is going to happen, happen. Anyway, when Paget is out, I am way out. I love Reid, no, I adore Reid, but I can't even imagine what they are going to do with that character, with all of the characters, now that the Seaver character is going to be a permannet fixture. I have seen this type of mess go down with other shows, and I can't sit through it with Criminal Minds.
Paget, mama, I am with you all of the way and will back you up 1000% in whatever you end up next. Nina Tassler, Ed Bernero, and the rest of the CBS clowns, I think you know what you can kiss.....
Vanessa,
I wasn't referencing those specific tweets asking Rachel to politely stop tweeting about Paget. There were some from others that were outright nasty to Rachel, and uncalled for. There is definitely a split with viewer opinion on Ashley. But I do get tired of us opposed to Ashley being accused of hating on Rachel because I vehemently disagree with the way Ashley is written. Some of Rachel's fans definitely want to make that connection that if you dislike Ashley that makes you a Rachel hater. Whatever.
I think CM lost with the departure of Paget. It's a shame that a show that brought so much to television is losing strength, first with the output of an iconic character in the series, then the lack of strength of argument in the scripts, to end with the departure of another character. I still have doubt still, if everything was for creative reasons, it has improved the program with the departure of JJ, by contrast, the chapters have not been pretty for its great history. Rather, decreased quality, and if CM has a good rating, is for his fans, who are faithful.
Production should give a 360 º, otherwise MC could come to an end not very decent for its seventh season.
A Paget, I give my full support, the series is enriched with his arrival six years ago, and will not be the same now that is gone, and the rest of the cast, thank you for your work. Always remain in our minds before the CM, strength and love stage actors got to show you will not forget.
For me, the team never was seven members, we are all part of it.
LaShawna,
Yes, oh, okay, got it. Thanks for replying.
I definitely understand what you are saying, and you are right, there is this crazy mixing of Rachel and Ashley as if they were one. Like you said, not liking the way a character has been written into the show has nothing to do with the actress who is playing that character. For either side to lose that distinction is wrong, and as you said, counterproductive. I have never seen a situation where a character has been so meshed with an actor. For me, it is normal to critique a character and not have that be in someway confused with a critique of the individual playing that role.
I believe that the writers painted the Seaver character into a corner, in that, writing her as a cadet leaves no room for the type of things they will most assuredly have her character do, like, giving part of the profile to the police with the team like in the Corazon episode. That is my major bone of contention with this character and it is something that I believe will grow within time, not decrease, especially given the fact that the Prentiss character will no longer be on the show.
Yesenia, yes, God , yes, this is not a happy time to look forward to a "RAD" episode, it is sad because the show is losing yet another one of its limbs.
I hope that Paget's last episode will be great, but right now, I don't want to think about her last episode. I am too upset at what has happened to CM, things that I believe will prevent me from watching the show once Paget leaves.
Hmm, will be interesting what shakes out at the end of the season when contracts are up. Thomas Gibson's is up and I think maybe Shemar Moore. Don't know about Matthew Gray Gubler, Kirtsen Vangness, or Joe Mantenga. I don't think any of them have expressed a desire to leave the show, but who knows what is going on behind the scenes. More important, what CBS may have up their sleeves.
This show definitely cannot lose another character or it will be in worse shape than it is now. As it stands now, I don't think this show will make it past season 7, and if it does, it will be deeply battle scarred because you can't lose two major characters and suffer the loss of great writers and not take some type of hit.
The sixth season of CM is almost playing out like season 8/9 for CSI::LV. In the course of a year, the show lost three major characters, and for me at least, it was never the same since. I fear the same thing is happening with CM right now. I dearly want it to remain a high quality show, but this season has been brutal for casting shakeups. It makes the drama with Mandy look grade-school. I am VERY curious about the last six episodes of this season. Those will be telling for how the show will carry on with the loss of two vital characters. I think if both AJ and Paget WANTED to leave in the first place, audiences would be upset, but would carry on and deal like when Lola and Mandy left. But because they were both fired (yeah okay, Paget was asked back, but their intention in the beginning was to fire her), it just fills the viewers with rage at the senselessness of it all. I can't say this show has been creatively refreshed in any way by this chaos.
LaShawna, I don't think anything has been "creatively refreshed" by any of the changes to CM. On the contrary, it has been "creatively decimated," and like you, I fear what is going on with CM right now. Someone at the CBS forum, I promise Criminal Minds Fan not trying to send anyone to another forum just making a reference :), said that CBS has a habit of killing shows somewhere between season 6 and season 8, with the exception of CSI and NCSI that the person said are the network's babies (I have never seen either show). The writer pointed to two shows Cold Case and Without a Trace, she said there were others, but these were ones people on the forum probably knew. Anyway, at first, I was like yeah, that can't be true, but now, I am like, ok, maybe there is some credence to that because I have noticed that with other CBS shows. Don't know if it is because over time shows cost more to keep on air because actors have to be paid more, or because the network loses interest and finds shiny new projects to work on, or maybe this theory is just wrong. I don't know, but the fact that CBS treated AJ and Paget like they were expendable, and the fact that these actors have never been given the level of respect that the CSI actors have makes me wonder.
I am sick about Paget leaving and like LaShawna am curious to see how the show handles the episodes without her moving into season 7. I must admit, with the writing lately and the Seaver character, I have serious reservations about CM being able to carry on under these two circumstances.
Ward, I agree, the loss of anymore characters and the show will be in worse than now.
I'm really pissed now! Does Seaver have to be there for Paget's final episode, while AJ will be making an appearance? It would've been the last time we would/will see our beloved team/cast together. I'm afraid now Seaver's presence is going to ruin the viewing experience for me, because that is what she does, she ruins every scene she is part of! She's just really unbelievable, I'm dreading episode 15 when she becomes a regular. I'd rather they end the show now with grace and dignity, than stretch it by adding characters like Seaver and making a mockery of what used to be one of the best shows on TV.
Yeah heyya, she is a scene kiLler, just liked she killed the Corazon episode with her presence, most notably when they wrote her in profiling. What would have been RAD is if it has just been the BAU team without this Seaver character, especially since JJ is coming back only for that episode.
I can already feel it, I will not be able to watch once Prentiss is gone and Seaver, her character just offends my intelligence. A cadet turned profiler overnight. Come on, Ed, what the hell!
Criminal Minds Fan, do you know if anybody at CBS/ABC/CM is reading any of the 400+ comments that have been left in this thread so far?
I haven't heard boo from either of these entities but truthfully it is not like I am holding my breath for anyone at any of these 3 places to come out and say anything. I suspect they will do what they always do, say nothing in hopes that all will be well once these "pesky" fans calm down. The trouble is, all is not well and has not been well since AJ was booted off for, ah yes, to "refreshen the show." Not that I have any illusions that AJ will ever be asked to come back to the show full-time, but as bad as that was, there was a chance to recover from that fiasco. Instead of recovery CM got increased lousy writing, and the icing on the cake we'll call fiasco, Seaver.
Acting as if these glaring problems don't exist, and that with "time" fans will get over their anger, frustration, upset, concern, and feelings of being insulted and betrayed are not things that can be ignored. These are festering wounds that abysmal writing and the Seaver character continually pour salt on.
Is there a chance to save this show from what appears like a wreck? Perhaps, yes, but that will not happen by continually ignoring what people who love this show and desperately want to see restored to the quality it once provided. Item one, the writing. The writing is in need of an overhaul, this is not a question "aspiring" writers putting their two cents in where it doesn't belong, no, these are the words of people who have been with show from day one, from people who never miss an episode on ion or a marathon on A&E, people who own the DVD's of prior seasons, the people who fell for the characters that used to be written so wonderfully and with care.
Item 2, the Seaver character. This character is simply not working and will not work no matter how many times you insert her into scenes, have her flexing profiling prowess that we all know is impossible and many feel insulted by. This is not the fault of the actress, this is simply a character that was experimented with in the show but that no matter how many episodes ends up appearing on cannot run away from the way she was written into the show. And it is that very thing that will not only persistently cripple this character, but also the show. We know that CM is capable of rich and dynamic character additions like Prentiss and Rossi. Please do the fans and the cast a favor and abandon the Seaver character and go with one that is befitting of CM. It has been done before and thus I see no reason it cannot be done now.
Luisa said...
I know that Ed was the "mastermind" behind the Seaver character neuroticjew, so maybe it was all Ed driven and not so much something that the network whipped him into creating.
One of the pilots Ed was pushing that he created was about a girl who joined a fugitive task force... you got it, because she had "unique insight since she grew up with her fugitive mom"
ring any bells??? He's gonna get that crappy storyling somewhere, and it just happens to be flushing CM down the toilet
With the fans in an uprising, the writing in a suckfest and Seaver taking over the world, I think MGG will decide to pursue his passion for directing, SM will be booted because of his outspoken opinions (but he will fine, because he is FINE and a great actor)... Joe and TG are amazing, but they can't carry Seaver.
CM as we know it is dead and gone.
Anonymous said....
"One of the pilots Ed was pushing that he created was about a girl who joined a fugitive task force... you got it, because she had "unique insight since she grew up with her fugitive mom"
ring any bells??? He's gonna get that crappy storyling somewhere, and it just happens to be flushing CM down the toilet"
Oh man, Anonymous, so he decides to use CM as a testing ground for this plot.. great :(
Al said...
"With the fans in an uprising, the writing in a suckfest and Seaver taking over the world, I think MGG will decide to pursue his passion for directing, SM will be booted because of his outspoken opinions (but he will fine, because he is FINE and a great actor)... Joe and TG are amazing, but they can't carry Seaver.
CM as we know it is dead and gone."
MGG certainly has a passion for directing and I think if the opportunity presented itself, he'd leave CM to jump at it. He wants to pursue directing stuff different than Criminal Minds which I think would be cool and interesting. Would definitely miss him playing Reid, but would be excited to see what projects he'd move onto.
Shemar, yeah, I am wondering where those comments he made about a part of him wishing that the spin-off fails will come into play, if at all. TG's contract is up at the end of season 6, but I don't know about Shemar. I know that it has been asked before, but does anyone know whose contract, if anyone else's contract, is up at the end of season 6?
I haven't heard or read anything about anyone wanting to leave the show, but it seems like lately, anything is possible with this show. Plus, who knows if CBS is done with its attempts to "creatively refreshen" the show. At this point, I would put nothing past CBS.
I often think if the actors feel anything, or notice anything, in terms of how their characters are being written nowadays and how overall the show is being written. In my opinion, they are not being used the way they were before, a way that really made each character shine. Adding this Seaver character has only made matters worse. I hope this character is not sticking around for season 7, but I am afraid she just may be. Don't think I can watch the show when the Prentiss character leaves and we are left with Seaver on the field with Hotch, Rossi, Reid and Morgan.
Wow all you people are just full of hate. And it seems like you really don't know anything whats going on. Paget chose to leave herself. She CHOSE to leave herself.
And Rachel has nothing to do with this. She is even friends with Paget and the rest of the cast of course she is upset that she will no longer be on the show.
Man i bet the cast is really proud of all your hate speach here on Rachel.
Oh god forbid she says she will miss Paget and thinks the episode will be good because she worked with writer on Alias
It really has turned into a witch hunt here it is sickening to see. And for a television show. Geez!
Anonymous said..
"Wow all you people are just full of hate. And it seems like you really don't know anything whats going on. Paget chose to leave herself. She CHOSE to leave herself."
You seriously need to check your facts. Let me break it down for you...
1. At the time AJ was fired from the show, CBS cut Paget's appearance's in the show- basically firing her, but in a much slower way than AJ
2. When the fans caused an uproar, CBS relented and tried to get Paget to sign on for appearances in al episodes, something she had before CBS cut her appearance
3. To Paget's credit, she told them to kiss her assets and chose to leave, which I do not blame her for doing at all. CBS demonstrated that not only did they respect the hard work Paget put into making the Prentiss character a success, but that they had no problem demoting her, to eventually fire her
This is public record if it is something that you care to look up and research. Plus, this Rachel/Seaver morphing is getting old and tired. People are saying SEAVER, SEAVER, SEAVER.. Is Rachel Seaver? Seriously, I want to know because people are speaking about Rachel and Seaver as if they are one in the same; they are not. One is a real person, the other one a crappy fictional character Ed Bernero created for Criminal Minds that people have listed over and over again why is wrong for the show.
If you can point out why the Cadet Seaver character works for a show that is premised around the fact that the BAU is an elite, specialized team with years of experience or in the case of Reid was exempted from that experience because of his genius (being a genius works in a team where you have to delve into the minds of criminals by the way), please share that with us.
Simply stating that we have hate for an actress when all we have ever spoken about is the fictional character she plays is getting old, not to mention creepy.
Plus, your tactic of trying to state that the cast would be ashamed of, what did you call it, our "hate speech," that is, sorry, pretty lame. This is a forum and as such a diverse set of opinions will be expressed.
If you are referring to the individuals who had an issue with Rachel (speaking of Rachel the real person here lest anyone think I am speaking of Seaver) they expressed their opinion of why they felt those tweets were inappropiate given the circumstances. I'm sure others, like yourself, do not take offense to those tweets. That is what makes a forum a forum. Any actor, network exec, writer, fan, whomever comes to a forum has to be prepared to see both flattering things and unflattering things about things that they do in public- whether that be speaking of the character they play (again, not confusing the character with the real person), or speaking about something they have said as the actor/actress themself related to the show.
In this instance, people disagree with Rachel tweeting what she did about Paget's last episode because, I am guessing, that the didn't like the fact that it was being housed as "RAD" when many fans don't think that the events that lead up to Paget's exit, or Paget's exit itself is something that is "RAD." Of course, Rachel was speaking of the episode itself, but this is an extremely sensitive time, people are hurting over what has happened to CM including Paget leaving. Tweeting about her exit at this specific point may not be the wisest thing to do.
Even though, I am sure all of Paget's fans want to seeher exit done well. But I will not speak further about that since I don't want to put words into people's mouths.
Finally, while I believe that people absolutely have a right to agree or disagree with the actions that an actor/actress takes in regards to something related to the show (in this case some disagree with the tweets, others do not), I think that whatever is said should, and can be, said in a respectful way, albeit mixed in with some sarcasm which seems to be the writing style of some here (myself included). But that sarcasm, at least for me, is never intended to denigrate another individual.
But really, what is most important here is the state of CM. CM is speeding down a downward spiral and I fear that if something is not done quickly, this show is going to fail. A large part of the problem is the writing; I am watching the episode Amplification right now on ion, and wow, I just can't believe what has happened to the show. An episode like Amplification used to be the norm, now they are nowhere in sight. And yes, I believe the addition of the Ashley Seaver character (ASHLEY SEAVER character, not RACHEL NICHOLS) is very problematic and as Philip stated earlier is something that cannot be ignored or simly thought of as something that "pesky" fans will get over and used to.
Unfortunately, the Seaver character was an ill-conceived, poorly introduced character that like Philip said no matter how many times this character appears on screen will not be able to shed. Plus, with a history of writing characters like Prentiss and Rossi, this character is simply not cutting it and shouldnt cut it as we know that something much stronger and credible can be written into the show.
Okay.. got to get back to the Amplification episode on ion :)
It's a false dichotomoy that if people don't like the character of Ashley Seaver, they hate Rachel Nichols. The people who are opposed to Ashley have stated very clearly over and over again our problems with the character, and with very minor exceptions, have nothing to do with Rachel herself. How about instead of accusing us of "hate speech", Ashley Seaver supporters state just as clearly why they feel the character is a good one. I truly am very curious (in a genuine way, not sarcastic) what Ashley fans like about the character. Give us a good reason why we should reevalutate this character, and not just the same reason that Rachel has nothing to do with AJ and Paget's departure. We already know that.
Anonymous said: Wow all you people are just full of hate. And it seems like you really don't know anything what’s going on.
Wow Anonymous!
I find your choice of the word “hate” interesting. Are you sure you really know what “hate” means? I realize the word “hate” is often used out of context but you’re clearly making an accusation, a very strong one. I’ve read all the posts in this string and I’ve only seen passion, frustration, angst, grief, sadness, resentment, and some appreciation; all of the negativity has been directed toward the writers, producers, a fictional character, and/or CBS directly.
What I really find sad is that you post such a tough opinion yet do not sign it. There have been many strong opinions voiced here yet most have chosen to show a name or a nickname.
Perhaps you fall into one of two categories; in my opinion:
1. You are a fan of Rachel Nichols (good for you she’s very talented) who doesn’t watch the show. Perhaps as a result of RN joining the cast you’ve recently started watching the show which could mean you don’t quite yet understand why so many of the loyal views are so upset.
2. You’re a plant of CBS to stir the pot and keep the controversy going or one of those people who gets off by infuriating others.
Either way, your accusation is in poor taste.
If you don’t agree with, or understand why, the majority, who are unhappy right now, perhaps you should start by asking questions instead of making wild accusations. Spirited debate is always more interesting and a lot more fun… and who knows, you might just win a few over to your point of view in the process.
Guys, guys, guys. Gabby and PGunn are correct in all that they say and I agree with them completely.
But I think we are invoking the "hate" bloggers comments by continuing to go on and on (given our frustration levels) and it's beginning to sound redundant and just plain negative.
Not that it shouldn't be. But now that negativity is being perceived as "hate."
We now know Paget is leaving FOR SURE, Rachel returning (on top of her tweeting) and Ed and the boys are still not saying anything.
But we have heard/seen no action on their parts to date and we have been going on about all this for MONTHS now, I'm sorry, but I don't think it's going to happen. The new show will premiere in less than 2 wks and we will be relegated to watching/not watching 1.)SB, 2.)the remainder of this CM season, 3.)ION and A&E re-runs and waiting with baited breath if CM gets picked up for another season and, depending on how they wrap up this season, 4.)do we watch next fall?
Only time will tell, and I for one, am feeling more helpless reading all this and think I will just give it up because it does not seem to be doing any good as far as turning things around (THEY ARE NOT LISTENING, FOLKS!) It is WAY less fun than it used to be because we are all feeling depressed. Misery does NOT love company anymore, ya know?
My sympathy to all of us. Damn.
Have a good day.
This is all one big hot mess thanks to Tassler's "creative refreshening" and Bernero's "genius" character addition."
Gubegirl, I get what you are saying and agree that it seems like nobody is home at CBS/ABC/CM. However, at this point, tere is really no place for them to hide in terms of disappointment, frustration, and anger from fans who have been subjected to a systematic dismantling of a show that was once marked with excellence. It is being written virtually everywher the show is discussed. In fact, I have not been to a site where there isn't an overwhelming sense of frustration and saddness over the losses suffered by the show.
Then, enter the people who say that our criticisms are "hateful" without anything to back that up except their belief that people are hung up AJ being fired and are taking that out on the writers and the Seaver/Rachel, Rachel/Seaver (can't tell nowadays since they both seem to be one) character.
Although it may sound redundant and may be perceived as negative, I think it is important that people express their views even if nobody at CBS/ABC/CM does a damn thing to change it because above all I think this is a community for the fans. Both those who have critiques and those who don't. The hit and run "hate" bloggers don't concern me because they show up everywhere, with the same MO of spewing out accusations of people being "hateful" without saying anything substantial behind that accusation. If they want to perceive my opinion that the show's writing has slipped considerably and that the Seaver character is a disaster for the show because no way in Hades would a cadet even be considered for a spot on the team, let alone get up and start profiling like she has been doing it for years, as hate then they can go ahead and do so. I will always back up what I am saying.
I think there is no question that the show will be picked up for season 7, unless something completely disastrous happens by the end of this season. I think waht is concerning people is what the show will ook like going into season 7 which may or may not effect whether there will be a season 8.
I know what I have said probably doesn't help you much Gubegirl. Trust me, I know what you are saying and feel the same way, I think a lot of people do.
You know what really burns my biscuits is that they are promoting the fact that AJ Cook is going to be back for one episode, which, by the way, I think is fantastic; fans are getting excited and I am guessing this may increase their viewership as some who stopped watching the show when AJ was fired may come back to see her in this episode. So, why in the heck don't they just stop this madness and just bring AJ back, which may cause Paget to reconsider leaving, and ditch this whole Seaver character that isn't working and won't work!
Look, this "creatively refreshing" the show crap is not working and it is obvious that something is lacking in the show and has been since AJ left the scene. Now Paget is gearing up to go, and the writing is just god awful. Is this what they call "creatively refreshing" a show? I'd call it suicide.
Right now the ratings are lower, but steady, but after Prentiss leaves, I am predicting a huge drop, so low that it could lead to cancellation. Look at what happened to Numb3rs, if you've seen it. It started out with an average of 10 to 13 million viewers a week, but over time ratings got lowered and by the time the sixth season rolled, it only received 7-8 million viewers a week, so low that its episode count was cut to 16 (from originially 25). And IT had a predominately male cast, but that didn't save Numb3rs from cancellation. Like Criminal Minds, Numb3rs was once the most popular show aired for its time slot (on Friday Evenings) for its first four season, but during the last two seasons, according to Tv Tropes
"the math degenerated into magical solution generators. The creators gave the series a minor retool around the midpoint of season 5, now the math has been mostly relegated to a side show, and more personal drama are being pushed in front; most of the episodes in season 6 feature almost no math at all."
And from that, lower ratings. Does this sound familiar?
I don't quite know the details how and why it changed because I've never seen the program (but I plan to, with all six seasons in my queue), but I'm afraid this will happen to Criminal Minds too, albeit for a little longer.
I have been thinking and I just came to the conclusion that if Seaver actually stays with the show, with this team for the rest of the season and the next, she will be the second member unqualified to be doing her job.
First member? Garcia taking over any of JJ's job.
That makes even Hotch look bad.
Oh, why do we think about this stuff and the people who actually should care about it don't?
I've been reading these postings quietly for a few days now. The word "hate" has been thrown around about the actress Rachel Nichols, although people have stressed time and again that their comments have nothing to do with the actress herself. I don't hate RN. I had never seen her before she appeared on my televison as the ill-conceived Ashley Seaver. That is not her fault. I had never seen Paget Brewster until she showed up as the brilliantly-conceived Emily Prentiss. She soon became part of the CM family.
Now Paget is leaving due to the show's treatment of her and her fellow castmate AJ Cook. Some have noted that it's her choice to leave, but who could blame her after such a blatant show of disrespect from the network. Nonetheless we are losing a beloved character and terrific role model of a strong, smart and competent woman who can keep up in every way with, and sometimes surpass, the men.
INHO, RN's tweet about Paget's last episode being RAD was in poor taste. (and, no, I don't hate her). I think any comments about Paget/Emily's impending exit should come from her or the brass at CBS/CM. When this RAD episode is over, we fans of CM will, once again, be without one of the members of our CM family. We are in the grieving process if you will. It's like telling someone a member of your family has died and, instead of being consoling or saying nothing, she responds with, "But what a way to go!"
I've been predicting that after Paget's departure, Criminal Minds will face a huge ratings drop (the ratings have been declining this season, with small fluctuations). I'm afraid that if the ratings go below 10 million, to the single million digits, it might form grounds for CBS to cancel the show. Look what happened to Numb3rs, another now-cancelled popular crime drama with a unique premise (solving crimes with mathematics). During its last season and a half, it strayed from its premise, and as a result, lost viewers, and by the time of cancellation, Numb3rs only received an average of 7-to 8 million viewers on a reduced episode count. So you see, with this sad precedent, I'm afraid that this could be Criminal Minds' fate.
People have commented before that when Elle and Gideon left the show (more likely the latter), there was great fear that Criminals Minds could face a ratings plunge and be cancelled. Nope, it stayed around for another three years, and the reason for it is that the show still managed to keep its high standard of quality writing and characters.
What's different here is that after JJ left, there's been a quality decrease that is not getting any better, and with Prentiss's soon-to-be departure, fans have just been become so disillusioned and jaded over the negative changes that a lot of them are just going to abandon the show once the Prentiss arc is over.
On a completely different note, NCIS has just been renewed for a 9th season, even though its season is only over half over. Makes you wonder about Criminals Minds future--when does it usually get renewed, and why hasn't any news of renewal or cancellation been published. If the spin-off fails (which if it gets negative review, I think will), then the network might not consider Criminal Minds a successful brand anymore and can it.
I think Criminal Minds would have to completely tank in the ratings the second half of the season for it to be canceled this year. I bet it will make it to the seventh season. As for NCIS, it is CBS's highest rated drama, so it is a no brainer for them to renew it now. Most shows get renewed in the spring time. If the spinoff fails (which wouldn't shock me in the least, considering the backlash from hardcore CM fans), it shouldn't have TOO much blowback to the original. I mean, CBS only ordered 13 episodes of the spinoff, and already had to bring in Ed to replace Chris as the showrunner. CBS is not displaying as much confidence in the success of the spinoff as it has with other shows' spinoffs and seem to be hedging its bets with it. Hence probably why the network feels they need to pair it with the original to give it its best shot of a carryover audience. Though if I was home, I would watch SVU instead, and I wouldn't be surprised if more people did the same. You've got two shows with overlapping audiences.
Yes, unless CM completely went off the rails the later half of season 6 (and even then), it is most definitely going to be picked up for season 7. I think it is like you said before LaShawna(I think it was you, there have been so many comments from different people that it is sometimes hard to keep track) what will set up CM for season 7 is how it does the later half of this season, especially when Prentiss is no longer appearing in episodes.
This will be a crucial point for CM because if people start tuning out of the show towards the end of season 6 it will be very hard to get those people to come back for season 7. Once viewers start to lose interest in a show, it is challenging to get them back into viewing that show again. It starts with missing an episode here or there, then once they eventually watch an episode they have basically lost the beat of what has occurred thus far in the series and switch off altogether. This has been my experience with shows in the past, shows that I slowly lost interest in because of poor writing and/or too many cast changes. Whenever I'd happen upon the show again, I was already so out of touch with it that I just resigned myself to chalking it up as another show that bite the dust for me. I am not saying that this will happen with CM, I am just pointing out that this is what generally tends to occur and why some shows begin to wander off in the ratings.
Added to all of this is the issue of the Seaver character who is simply not, in my opinion, strong enough of a character to hold viewers attention once Paget is permanently off the show, and as the writers will have to integrate her more fully into the show once Paget leaves, this may be another potential thing that may cause people to switch off prior to the end of this season. Again, viewers switching off prior to the end of this season would be bad because to get those viewers back on board for season 7 will prove difficult. Not saying this will definitely happen, just saying the potential for this exist and it is something that CM has to open its eyes to and no longer pretend is not a problem.
Not sure how many episodes are left in the season, but hopefully for CM's sake they are strong enough to have people come back for season 7 and keep them hanging on throughout season 7.
There should be 11 more episodes left in season six, since I believe CBS ordered 24 CM episodes this year. So there is plenty of time to turn it all around or cock it all up. My biggest fear is that this show will turn into CSI: LV. It was one of my favorite shows for years, but after three major characters left in one year, I just lost my desire to see it, even when Sara did come back. It all depends on how the rest of the team will hold up in the wake of Emily's departure. The basic team structure is still there; the writing just needs to be tightened up and the team interaction stronger. I think this season proved that CM is NOT L&O, where the cases take front seat, the main cast takes back seat, and the characters are interchangeable. I bet most dedicated viewers don't turn in to see the creep of the week, but how the TEAM handles the unsub. The focus needs to be back on the team, and the unsub sidelined for the actual profiling process that catches him/her.
Faye, LaShawna, let's hope they can turn it around because thus far all they have been doing is sinking deeper into the hole.
The basic team structure is still there, at least on the male side, but I think the issue is going to be how they mix this Seaver character into that team structure. This character is so far off the mark for the show that I just don't see how that character is not going to pull the integrity of the show, let alone of the male cast, down with it. The main reason I am saying that is because with Prentiss off the scene fairly shortly, the rest of the episodes, to some extent, are going to have to feature this character. Not entirely, but there will have to be some focus. Again, I just don't know how they are going to do that in a way that is credible for fans now that this character will have to be featured more promiently.
Thus far, they have failed miserably in doing so and this is with the male leads and Prentiss there. God only knows what that will look like once Prentiss is no longer there.
Well, let's see.
I watched Criminal Minds from the Pilot to season 6 episode 2. I haven't watched any new episodes since and I have removed the show from my DVR schedule. I will break the "do not watch" pattern and watch the final Prentice episode then stop watching again. JJ was my favorite and it killed me when she was fired. We get to see JJ again but it is bitter sweet. I am sorry for all you Paget Brewster fans. You are going through what I went through earlier. I still read the forums and it is clear that the fans are upset. Look up the definition of "Jump the Shark" on Wikipedia. The show changes the normal characterizations and has obsurd plots and coincides with an unrecoverable decline in the show.
I am afraid this is what you are witnessing.
Yes Anonymous, on some level I think the show is coming dangerously close to jumping the shark. I for one will cease from watching the show, erasing it from my DVR, once Paget leaves the show. Mind you, this isn't solely about the fact that Paget is leaving the show. For some time now, the writing has taken a dive, taking the characters along with it.
1. Hotch- is no longer the strong team leader that he once was before, no, now he is in the background, delegating tasks to Morgan (don't even get me started on the 13th Step episode), passing out folders during the presentation of cases (something that was part of JJ's role until Tassler deemed that character unnecessary), and barely interacting on any substanial level with any of the other team mates.
2. Rossi- has all but been swallowed up by the background. When Rossi does speak nowadays, it is to defer to whatever anyone else is stating, including Cadet Seaver (What the hell!). This guy was one of the BAU pioneers, authored books on serial killers, between him and Hotch there is at least 2 decades of experience and knowledge, yet, he is being portrayed more and more like a lightweight.
3. Morgan- has become increasingly angry, detached, gone is the lighthearted side of Morgan, the side that was funny and full of charm. More and more, we see Morgan stepping into Hotch's shoes, something he was assigned to do while the whole Reaper story was unfolding, but now, well, there is no reason he should be stepping into that role. Not to say that he can't be direct and take charge, he can and should, but it should be done in the context of Hotch being the leader.
4. Reid- gone is the wonderful way they used to showcase Reid's brilliance, the way they used to showcase what made him so special and such an asset to the BAU. These assets are what Gideon tagged for the team. Also gone is Reid's quirkness, the quirkiness that made the audience fall in love with his character. Now, he is in the background, sometimes mumbling some facts about this or that but nowhere near what used to awe the audience.
5. Garcia- the witty banter that she used to have with Morgan, Reid, Hotch, well, everyone, is nowadays either overdone or non-existent. Plus, she is now presenting the cases to the team. This is just all shades of wrong and ill-fitting for her character. Again, this is something that JJ did, but that Tassler felt was of no use (hmm, so useless were JJ's tasks that now you have the Unit chief and the technical analyst doing them, ok....).
6. Prentiss- when she did manage to appear on screen, thanks once again to Tassler's interference, she was either Morgan's perpetual sidekick, and gone are her wonderful insights on victimology and her interviewing skills.
Seaver, what can I say about this character that hasn't already been said and very well by many of the people here. This character is probably one of the most ill-conceived characters I have ever seen inserted into any show I've watched on network TV and cable.
What made this show great and unique are all but gone. Now, another piece of the CM puzzle is about to be taken, leaving the jagged and worn out pieces behind to try and fit with a piece of the puzzle that will never fit no matter how hard they try to make it fit.
Go to the CBS CM site and send in feedback that you want to see the CM promos on the CM web page. Having just the CMSB promos there when a new CM episode is coming up (sooner) is unacceptable.
I hope CBS and Ed ( if he is still CM showrunner) and the writers have read all the posts here because I have and I am alarmed at what I am reading;
1-people not watching anymore.
2-people wanting to stop watching after Paget leaves
3-people complaining about poor writing
4- CM becoming a L&O type of show where the team, the BAU characters have no importance, the writers don't write for them but for the unsubs or the case of the week.
5- No team interraction. No wonder since the writers think that apart from Morgan who is now the guy who does everything, no one else is important and are just there because well the actors must at least make an appearence once per episode or CBS are paying them for nothing.
6- Awful cast change for no reason except so CBS and Tassler could save some money to put on the oh so awesome new spin off and its oscar winner.
7- Favorite fans characters, Hotch, Reid, Rossi, are all part now of the background. Gone is Hotch the leader of the BAU, he is now reduce to be Morgan assistant. Reid is just there to utter a few facts and back to the station for Reid, Rossi who is one of the BAU founder is now getting eclipsed by a cadet that has no reasons to be on the team at all.
8- That cadet, Seaver, why is she there? She brings nothing to the team. Why woiuld Ed even come up with such a character. More than anything, this character is the poster child for what is wrong with CM this season; bad writing.
Ed, you need to look closely at the scripts and the Seaver character and admit that you made a mistake and remove the character from CM. Replace her with a female agent that belong on the team. Look back at what was established for CM, the BAU is for the elite not for cadets who no matter their life experience, don't have the field and qualifications to be in the BAU.
Ed take a good look at CM before it is too late.
CBS, you are doing such a poor job that if I was on that spin off I would be looking for a new gig now because there is no way the spin off can be a success if the mothership crumbles before the spin off is established. Look at all the other spin off you have, NCIS and CSI are still more popular than their spin off. The fact is CBS, your precious ( aka spin off) need CM to be successful, it isn't the other way around.
I for one, have no intention of watching the spin off unless Paget Brewster stays on CM and all the problems I have listed before are addressed.
I am amazed at what CBS and Tassler did to CM, to screw up the mothership in favor of the spin off. CBS never did this with NCIS and CSI why do it to CM? Oh and why we have no CM promo on the CBS site dedicated to CM? Why is it all about the spin off? that show got its own site, post the promos there! What an insults the CM and its fans!
I will continue to watch CM, I don't want to punish the cast, even if I am angry at Paget leaving, but I will NEVER watch the spin off.
TB
I just went to the CBS site for CM and clicked on the "Video" portion of it and kat887, your right, there is no promo for the upcoming new CM episode, but there are like 8 promos for the spin-off. WTH CBS! The spin-off has its own dedicated spot on the website, why are you using the CM portion of the website to promote that stupid spin-off! Have you not sucked CM dry enough to further that dumb spin-off!
This is what you have taken thus far to advance the spin-off:
1. Fired quality writers from CM; including completely screwing over Chris Mundy who you shipped off to the spin-off to be a showrunner, only to later fire him as showrunner for the spin-off but did not hire him back for CM.
2. Fired AJ Cook from the show. Next to firing CM's strongest writers, this was the biggest mistake that CBS made. You mistakengly believed that the JJ character was just another figure in the cast, someone that viewers wouldn't care or notice was gone. You were WRONG.
3. Reduced Paget's appearances in the show, which was leading up to her being fired. Now, amazingly, after you screwed around with Paget, basically telling her as you told AJ that her character was not necessary, just another figure that viewers wouldn't notice or care if was on the show or not, you are now back-peddling and trying to put this all on Paget. After disrespecting her in every which way possible, Tassler has the nerve to say that the decision to leave was up to Paget. Really Nina Tassler, really. You and the rest of the CBS clowns that you work with were planning to give Paget the heave-ho until fans interjected, then when it waas too late, you tried to give Paget the contract she should have been given in the first place. Do you think anyone would ever trust and want to work with a network that does that to them? No,of course not, and I know that you were banking on her leaving so don't act like you are upset that she is doing just that.
4. Oh God, the cadet Seaver character. Where does one even begin with the nightmare that is that character. This character not only highlights the downward spiral that CM is taking in regard to the writing, but it once again demonstrates a complete and utter disregard and lack of respect for the bulk of the people that watch CM. This bulk is what carries the show from week to week, season to season, yet, you believe that we would just sit back and say "Yes, why yes, a cadet that has absolutely no qualifications and absolutely nothing that would cause anyne to want to get an exception for her to be on the team like Reid, why yes, that makes perfect sense." I can only chalk this belief up as a mixture of network hubris along with the belief that viewers are stupid and willingly to swallow anything that is shoved down their throats.
CBS/CM you have done everything in your power to ensure that people will switch off from seeing CM. How many people will eventually switch off remains to be seen, but that people will switch off, their is virtually no doubt about that. I say this because what you are doing to CM now is what has been done to many shows in the past; a decrease in writing quality, getting rid of beloved characters and adding new ridiculous ones, these are the types of things that wear thin on viewers. What a shame that you have never valued the hard work and dedication that the original cast and writers put into making CM a success. Never have you promoted or supported CM the way that you are this spin-off, a spin-off that incidentally wouldn't have been even thought of if it had not been for the success of CM.
I'm not quite sure why you wanted to rush out and turn CM into a "franchise." Personally, I believe that CM is a stand alone show that wasn't in need of being spun into the web of your "franchise" world. Now, slowly and almost surely, CM is coming undone at the seams and like many others have said here, I will not be watching the spin-off.
Yeah CBS, why is it that I have to go to You Tube to see a promo for the "Sense Memory" episode airing on Wednesday? It is totally unacceptable that the promo for the new episode is not on the CM site. The CM site should promote CM, not the spin-off. The spin-off has its own site, put those stupid spin-off promo's there.
I hope that spin-off crashes and burns!
I will NEVER watch the spin off! I can't believe how badly CBS & Ed have screwed the best show. My favorite characters are Hotch and Emily, with Rossi a close third. You've shoved Morgan to the lead which is completely unnecessary. Fine, give Morgan some more attention, but NOT at the expense of another character, especially the lead and true Unit Chief!
So bad enough we're not getting Hotch, now we're going to lose Emily, a bright light and female strength so needed. WTF??!! And don't give me any lines about Seaver taking over. Nothing against the actress, but the character has had an implausible introduction and simply does not fit into the alleged ELITE team of the BAU.
Rossi... where are you? I really miss the banter between Hotch & Rossi.
Its not too late to turn things around but tptb on CM need to first admit there is a problem. Please get back to the team dynamic and Hotch as leader. This fan can take just so many hits and if TG goes, I'm out the door also.
I'm really upset with this "Seaver thing"... she DON'T fit at all and it was a terrible mistake put her there, blonde and no-capable-of-profile when there's still people don't get used to watching the show without J.J....this is not about the actress, it's about the effect that provoke on the audience watch that character on the screen trying to replace JJ or trying to make things like Emily.
mmmm and I believe it's worse try to make us simpathize with her using Reid...
And if Prentiss is going away to, she's definitely the last character the team and the audience need. I'm worried about Hotch too... they are making his appearances more and more weak... this is not looking very good at all.....
I'd like to think that CBS is not deliberately sabotaging one of its top shows, but you never know. My feeling is that CBS takes the Criminal Minds audience for granted. They assume that we will take whatever they give us, and we'll keep coming back for more. It's the mistaken notion that people watch for the creep of the week rather than the actual characters of the BAU. I also think they are more worried about the spinoff than they let on. They have to know there is a tremendous amount of anger about the spinoff from hardcore fans. The executives probably assume CM fans will watch the original show regardless of promos, but they are possibly bombarding us with spinoff promos to try and entice us to watch it. No, BEG us to watch it and give it a chance. Of course it seems to be having an opposite effect on many fans, but those fans probably wouldn't have watched it anyway. The network is probably trying to lure the more casual fans who don't have as much emotional attachment to all the drama currently going on around the original. The network is trying to tie the spinoff even more to Criminal Minds to try and transfer the loyalty people feel for the original to the spinoff. I am VERY curious what the ratings for the spinoff will be next week and how they will compare to the original.
Gubegirl, I hope your okay! Please don't have a meltdown over the dummies at CBS; they are not worth it!
LaShawna, yes, it will be interesting to see what type of ratings the spin-off will get next week, and I think you are right in believing that CBS is probably not as confident in the spin-off than they previously led on. All I know is that I am definitely not watching the spin-off and if CM continues the way that it is, I don't know if I can say that I will continue watching CM.
I'm definitely going to watch until Paget officially leaves the show, but after that, well, I don't know.
Oh and yes, they definitely take the CM viewers for granted which is seen by the writing and cast changes they have made recently. More and more, I am really believing that they think we are clay that they can shape and mold into anything that they want, and what they want are people who are going to sit in a corner and not express any opinion. Sorry CBS/CM, I believe the direct opposite is true.
It is quite clear by many of the posts here that CM fans are smart individuals who pay close attention to detail and as such know when a fast one is trying to be pulled on them. The inconsistent writing (that yes, to some extent has always existed but never so much as now) is something that is readily caught by viewers precisely because they pay attention to detail and because they have invested so much in the characters and the concept of the BAU the show has always stood for. This is why characters like Seaver are quickly detected for what they truly are and that is a character that is ill-conceived and will never fit on the show, let alone the "elite" BAU. And no, it has nothing to do with the actress or the loss of AJ and soon Paget, but rather with the fans who love the show and do not want it to slide down a rabbit trail by introducing characters such as Seaver who the show will have to compromise in quality and credibility to try and make fit in with the premise of the show.
I thought the spin-off wasn´t necessary from the start. If CBS wanted the spin-off to be succesful they shouldn´t shake up with original CM cast. I never cared for JJ character too much but there is an empty space since she left. The conclusion of that now is no CM fan is going to watch spin-off and we are upset of this Seaver-JJ look alike character. As I hope spin-off fails, I think CM ratings will drop after Prentiss leaves, especially when it´s aganist American idol
I´m so sad...
I've been reading the comments here and elsewhere and I must say that the same sentiment is being shared almost everywhere I go. The first being that the writing has taken a severe nose dive. At least for me, this has been going on since the beginning of season 5. then, the all so famous Seaver character. Okay, I am going to have to take a deep breath for this one because instead of anlayzing what people here and elsewhere have said is the problem with that character, now it has become "Aw, poor Rachel Nichols, everybody hates her because she stepped in when CBS dumped AJ and Paget. If you were a true CM fan you should support her." The problem is that if you are a true CM fan you know how magnificently horrendus that character is for the show. Notice how I said character, not the real person (still don't understand how people are not making that distinction).
There is absolutely no excuse and I mean NO EXCUSE why this type of character should have been written for the show other than as some type of filler character that is being used as a way not to write a substanital character. Even if AJ and Paget's characters were still on the show, there would still be NO EXCUSE for the inclusion of this cadet character that has NOTHING in terms of the type of qualifications and standards the show set up for the BAU. NONE AT ALL!!! Does anyone out there get that? I mean, seriously, really get that?
So excuse me if I don't care to accept a character that makes absolutely no sense at all, on top of writing that is bad. Instead of creating the "Don't hate Rachel Nichols aka Ashley Seaver" campagin, look at what in the heck is going on with the show. Stop using this stupid Seaver against Anti-Seaver campaign tactic and take a SERIOUS look at what is going on with the show and then GET IN THERE AND FIX IT! Gawd, this whole thing is so juvenile and in the end is going to take the show right into the dumpster.
Man up Bernero and admit that the Seaver character was a mistake and create one that doesn't take an exercise in gynmastics to accept. If you are too busy to do that, then PLEASE delegate that responsibility to someobody else. Nina Tassler started this mess by firing the writers, firing AJ, and essentially firing Paget. But the Seaver character is all on you, so again MAN UP and take responsibility before the whole thing gets shot to heck!
I feel compelled to add my two cents (for what it's worth).
I know that some people (and some members of the Criminal Minds crew) found some fans rude with Rachel Nichols.
I hope my post won't come across as rude because I'm not letting anger, resentment (or any kind of emotion) dictate my reasoning, just logic.
First, I'm not, nor will I ever, blame Rachel Nichols for the situation.
She seems to be a total sweetheart, and I'm sure she's doing the best she can given the circumstances.
Second, I don't really see Seaver as a replacement for JJ.
Since we're loosing both AJ and Paget, they needed another female agent on the team.
So, if it wasn't Seaver we would have another female agent.
I'm not taking this out on Rachel Nichols or Ashley Seaver.
Third, I don't think Seaver is a bad character. She seems to be a likable character and a rather strong woman (I don't blame her for being emotional in 'What Happens at Home').
I don't mind her character as a cadet and (soon) a (junior) FBI Agent.
Four, and that's where I have a problem, I don't understand what justify that character's place in the BAU unit (not Rachel Nichols' place, her character's).
I had a problem with that as soon as I learned that a cadet would join the unit.
I don't mind Seaver as a character, I don't mind Seaver as a cadet or Junior FBI Agent, but Seaver (the way they wrote her) as a BAU team member doesn't make sense in the slightest.
Maybe it wouldn't be such a problem if the writers hadn't insisted so much (in the past) on the fact that the BAU is an 'elite unit'.
I rewatched "Memoriam" not long ago, and the funny thing is that when you do a close up on the articles collected by Reid's father, there is a mention of Reid joining the team :
it says that it's really not everyday a new agent is welcomed in the elite team that is the BAU, and that it's even more rare given Reid's very young age.
The article makes it clear that it's something extremely unusual and mentions Reid's extraordinary brain power.
I guess I just don't understand how Seaver can join the unit so quickly...
I also don't understand how Seaver is already able to profile (and deliver the profile in an official way to the police officers) when she has absolutely no experience with this job (not even a few months...).
It gives the impression that profiling is something that can be done easily by a complete rookie, (when the previous writers put a lot of effort into proving just the opposite over the years).
Now, I'm pretty sure the writers, crew or cast won't read my post.
Anyway, I still wanted to say that I would appreciate Ashley Seaver's character more if they wrote her as a real trainee/junior agent (someone taking notes and asking questions, trying to understand what her colleagues are doing).
But I'm afraid that they'll write Seaver as a full-blown profiler very quickly.
So, I hope my post wasn't rude or offensive to anyone. I'm honestly sorry if it hurt the feelings of anyone (it wasn't my intention).
I'm still looking forward to the rest of the season (even if I'm dreading Prentiss departure).
I also hope that Reid's medical problems aren't just stress related, that would be a disappointment (or the result of a mental condition).
Elisabeth R. why are they saying that some people are coming across as rude to Nichols?
I can totally understand if people were being rude to her, the actress. I know that has been going on and that is juvenile, nasty and needs to stop. But if they are pointing to the fact that people don't like the character and are thus using that as some way to say that people are being rude to Nichols, then that is when I have a problem and when I say that that too is juvenile.
Like you, my point in commenting is not to be rude or offensive to anyone. Yes, I was pretty harsh with Bernero because I feel that he has completely abdicated his responsibility to CM in lieu of the spin-off. The writing lately and the Seaver character both confirm this point to me. On some level, I feel like he is finding shelter in this war called "Seaver" and in the end will just say what he has said from the begininng of this characters appearance on the show, that people have a problem with Seaver because of AJ. This infuriates me because it belittles what the fans have said about the character not being a fit, about how the character is causing the show to steer away from the elite nature that some of the show's best writers took a lot of work and dedication to set up. It is what set the show apart from every other show out there and it is something that should not so easily be tossed out of the window to allow for a character that doesn't fit within that sphere.
I will simply not accept that in the realm of character creation this is the best, or even not so much the best but adequate, character that he could come up with to add on as a team member for the BAU. If Bernero and the crew want to take that is being rude, there is nothing I can do about that because it is the truth. A truth that has been said over and over again here and everywhere.
To Mildred :
I agree with everything you said about A. Seaver.
I just wanted to make sure that my post wasn't taken as an attack against R. Nichols.
There has been people (some members of the C.M. crew included) complaining about the attitude adpoted by some fans against R. Nichols (and against the petition to get ride of A. Seaver).
So, I wanted to point out that my reasons for disliking A. Seaver as a BAU team member were not motivated by anger or resentment. Just by logic.
I wasn't against the idea of a new woman joining the team. I was expecting it since we heard the news about AJ and Paget in june 2010...so I was prepared and open minded (and even felt already sorry for the actress who would take the role). But the way they wrote Seaver is simply not credible.
You're completely right, criticizing a character and criticizing the actor/actress are two different things. I never said a bad word against R. Nichols, she's not at fault and criticizing her would be stupid.
Her character just doesn't fit in my opinion.
On the off chance that a writer/cast member/crew member will read my post, I wanted to make sure they understood there was nothing personal (or against R. Nichols) in my post.
All you haters say it isn't about Rachel Nichols this seasver character and you only hate the character. How can you even justify this thinking. Because Seaver is played by Nichols
Do you think she will thank all you haters if she gets fired because you haters want her off. Do you think Matthew Gray Gubler or the rest of the cast will thank you when you get their friend Nichols fired
Can you see where this is going?
Elisabeth R., thanks for replying and clearing that up.
I just find this whole thing unfortunate because instead of having a rational discourse about the Seaver character and about why some are strongly against the character for the show, the whole thing has been turned into this Rachel Nichols attack thing. Whether that be by the individuals who are targeting their angst about AJ and Paget towards Nichols, or because people are refusing to take a critical view at what people have taken time out of their day to write here and elsewhere.
In the end, I fear the biggest loser in this whole battle may be the show because whether it be because of AJ and Paget, or because people cannot and will not buy what Bernero is trying to sell them in this character, people may begin to switch off.
From the majority of what I have read thus far here and elsewhere, I happen to believe that the later is true, that is, people can see right through the nonsensical nature of this character and many will not just sit idly by when week after week the show will attempt to feed them a character they know has no fit in the show.
How many people will react to this, only time will tell. But I would think this would be something that the show would like to avoid given the hits it has already received.
Anonymous, thanks for another random and useless comment about how people hate Seaver the character because it is being played by Rachel Nichols. With that type of thinking, I think you are ready to write an episode or two for season 6 and perhaps season 7 of Criminal Minds.
To the anonymous poster :
I'm not a hater, far from it.
Like I said, there's no resentment on my part and I'm a very peaceful and open minded person.
I just think the way they introduced Ashley Seaver is not plausible and I think I have a right to voice my opinion.
I can adapt to changes, I never had a problem with Rossi or Prentiss because I saw them as believable addition to the team.
I just don't see that with Ashley Seaver, her character joining the team goes against a lot of things previously established on the show, and it bothers me.
The sad thing is that they could have written Ashley Seaver in a more believable way, someone with more experience and more credentials, someone with a specific professional experience (like a former psychologist). They would have needed to age her up, but it wouldn't have been a problem (or at least it shouldn't have been one).
But now it's too late, the character is already created and they can't erase what they wrote about her, they can't go back on her background and change the fact that she is a cadet (and soon a junior agent).
But I don't think you should worry : the character is here, and I don't think they plan to write her off.
Like I said, I'm far from being a hater.
I hope the show will do well in the ratings since it's my favorite.
I just wanted to voice my opinion, in a cordial, and non hateful way.
Fedra
You know i am right all you gotta do is just look at the CM crew and cast twitter pages and then you see they are saying the same as me. But i guess you can't get that because your mind is clouded with hate for seaver so it seems
I could care less about Twitter.. honestly, you are using Twitter as a basis for your argument... Yeah, I won't even comment any further.
You continue to ignore all of the posts people have written here and keep saying to yourself that it all has to do with Seaver, oops, I meant Nichols.. oh no, I meant Seaver.. oh dang it, I meant Nichols...
well the tweets are from the source itself. So i guess that doesn't matter at all huh.
I will not comment any further either because i think my post speaks from itself and comes with proof from the CM people themselves
LOL Fedra, it is hard to keep track of who is who nowadays, right, LOL
I have never heard of Rachel Nichols prior to her appearing on CM as Ashley Seaver. Meryl Streep could be playing Ashley Seaver and I'd still say the character stinks for the show. It is the character and the way that it was written into the show that stinks, and like you said Elisabeth R., it is something that they can't take back.
But Elisabeth R., there is no point in going back and forth with people who write stuff like the Anonymous writer, certainly no need to explain yourself or apologize. In very clear terms you expressed your reason for having an issue with the Asley Seaver character. If people such as the Anonymous poster can't or won't understand that, then I think the best thing is to let them post what they wish. Your words speak for themselves.
I am on Twitter and I have never seen any tweet from any CM cast about Rachel Nichols being "attacked." The only such tweets I've seen about her being attacked are by her and from, I think the person is a make-up artist on the show.
I double and triple checked this before I wrote this here.
Anonymous, I wanted to precise something.
Maybe you won't care, but it's still worth a try.
I have nothing against Ashley Seaver as a character. She's not a bad character, but the background they gave her makes her unfit for the BAU.
You have to understand something : a lot of fans are dearly attached to the fact that the BAU unit is supposed to be an elite one.
A lot of fans are attached to the fact that only a handful of people could do the job of our beloved characters.
Very few people are selected to enter the BAU unit : it's really not an easy feat and it's not called an 'elite unit' without a good reason.
It was a very important aspect of the show for a lot of fans, and that notion is completely challenged by the addition of Seaver on the team.
Now, I do no wish any ill on Rachel Nichols or Ashley Seaver. And since I'm pretty sure Ashley Seaver is here to stay, I simply want her to act like a cadet/junior agent.
Which means I would like to see her taking notes, asking questions, trying to understand how the unit works, studying, having some difficulties to understand some concepts and asking help...
All of those things would make the character more believable for me.
Her participating when the team is establishing the profile or giving the profile at the precinct doesn't make sense.
Those activities do not fit at all with the background Ed. Bernero and the writers choose to give her.
If I have overlooked something, please reference it here so that I can take a look at it. But from what I've seen, the cast members that have Twitter accounts have not seen any such tweets.
To Patricia J.
Yes, I know I shouldn't have to.
Sometimes I just can't help myself...
everyone does know that any tv show can get rid of any actor at the end of every season, right? just because seaver is here for the last episodes of this season doesnt mean she will be here next year
:)
I understand Elisabeth R. it is very tempting, especially since it is something that you, I, and others feel very passionate about.
I am not sure how long the Seaver character will be on the scene, but my hope would be that she would stay in the capacity that you wrote here (in the background taking notes, asking questions). The problem, I think, is that I don't feel like they are going to do this, which they demonstrated in the Corazon episode when she was providing part of the profile to the police with the rest of the team.
Even if they were to do a 180 and start writing her as someone who is ther taking notes and asking questions, well, I think it would beg the question, at least have it cross the mind of some people, as to why there is a character on the team who is not really doing anything substantive in terms of profiling which is what the BAU (with the exception of Garcia and formerly JJ) are all about.
Again, I am not sure how long this character is slated to be on the show, but if there is a chance to rethink this character going into season 7, I strongly think they should do that and write in a character who is qualified for the team. I think this would make major headway in turning things around for the show after the eventual loss of yet another character (Prentiss).
Like you, I have nothing against the actress, it is just that unfortunately this character does not work with the show and the sooner that issue is fixed, the sooner things can maybe get back on track.
Anonymous said...
"everyone does know that any tv show can get rid of any actor at the end of every season, right? just because seaver is here for the last episodes of this season doesnt mean she will be here next year"
That is true, I guess the question is how long she was signed for. Although, I am sure networks have a way, or at least write in a way, to get rid of actors/characters that they feel should not be on the show. I know that is what happened with the actress that was signed to play Tara on CSI Miami. I believe she was signed as a series regular, but the character wasn't clicking, so by the end of that season she was let go.
Don't know if this will happen here. Guess we will all find out by the end of season 6.
To Patricia J.
I completely agree with you.
I know that in all likelihood they're going to write A. Seaver as a full-blown profiler very soon.
Hoping she would act like a real cadet/Junior agent is more wishful thinking on my part.
Like you mentioned, if 'Corazon' was anything to go by, she'll be conducting interviews pretty soon.
I wished they had thought of a more believable background for the new character before introducing her. But now they wrote themselves in a corner with the way they presented Ashley Seaver to the viewers during those three episodes.
Just like you, I don't know if Seaver's character will stay or not. Only time will tell.
And yes, we certainly are all passionate about the show. :)
I meant the actress wasn't clicking for the show, not the character. Geez, now I am starting to do what is being done with Nichols and Seaver with the Tara character on CSI Miami, LOL
On a bright note, there will be a CM marathon on ion February 21st :)
Some people refuse to get it. They hide between big words about hate and think that if they insinuate that the fans are biased they will get away with it. Get off your high horse and make an actual effort to understand what people are saying. Of course the character and the actress are not one and the same. It's not the actress' fault that her character was so unfortunately introduced. I feel for her deeply because she's in the middle of this situation.That being said I believe people have a legitimate point about the way the character was introduced and have a right to express that opinion. People are not out to offend anyone,people are offering constructive criticism. If you can't see that and the only acceptable form of feedback is praise and swooning over everything the writers do, you came to the wrong place. The people here are honest in their opinions before anything. It gives a refreshing perspective and an honest criticism of one's work, if one is looking for that that is. If I were a writer I would listen to what the people here have to say. They're much too many to ignore.
I'm generally a sideline person here, looking at the pictures, show information and items up for bid at the charity auctions. For the first time, I feel compelled to offer my opinion about what is going on with the show and why in all likelihood I will not remain with the show once Paget Brewster departs.
To begin, I believe that Criminal Minds was once one of the best shows on TV. The premise for the show, the writing, the actors, everything just sparked and instantly one knew that this show was like none other. The way the show fused together reality and fiction is something I know led people to learn more about the subject of criminal profiling, causing perhaps a few to pursue that as a career. Shows marked with excellence are the ones that touch and influence people in that way. Today, the show has veered further and further away from the spark that once made it stand apart. Now, it is more about highlighting the unsub and his or her deeds, sprinkling in the team here and there. Before, it was the unsub that was sprinkled here and there with the team being at the forefront of the investigation. In the past, viewers were taken on a psychological journey of sorts, now, everything is pretty much laid out in the beginning and it has become more about the guest star who is playing the unsub that week. This is a big departure from the show and one that I believe undercuts its uniqueness and excellence.
Undoubetdly, all of the network interference into the show has created this atmosphere, but oddly, I believe it is something that the creative powers that be at Criminal Minds have embraced and are in no time letting go. Now, the feelings of hurt and betrayl felt on the part of the viewers towards CBS has found its way to the front doorstep of Criminal Minds. Whereas before it appeared that critiques were taken at face value and approached in a way so as not to sacrifice the integriy of the show, today, if a word is said in opposition to an episode, and lately a character, walls instantly go up and camps are constructed. Above all else, this is what I believe is and has damaged the show.
Never have I witnessed such a reluctance to truthfully look into the mirror and acknowledge what is so obviously glaring straight back in into ones face. This is a creative entity and as such there will be cheers and jeers. The willingness to use both to fix and improve upon ones work is what makes a show endure and what also garners respect from the viewers. There have been legitmate concerns with regard to the show's newest character addition that trace back to what the show was founded on. Yet, these concerns are being muffled by a bizarre bid by Criminal Minds and perhaps CBS to just accept what is being produced with no questions, concerns, or opinions to the contrary. Characters and storylines are being created that fall outside of what is at the crux of this show, yet, there is a bid by Criminal Minds to "shame" anyone that dare bring this reality to the forefront stating that it is just these specific viewers "hateful" and "spiteful" nature mixed in with their lack of loyalty to the show that has brought this issue to light. In other words, we are not to question, critique, raise awareness, or challenge what many feel will and is degrading the show. How will this type of climate benefit the show, the cast, and the crew in the long run? Forgive me, but I don't see how that is useful or productive.
Continued from previous comment:
This new atmosphere of "Don't ask, don't tell, and definitely don't point out," is one that I personally believe will continue to destroy not only the content of the show, but the spirit of the viewers that have faithfully and with much loyalty and love tuned into the show each week.
If we are no longer free to express our concerns about the writing and about a character that many here (myself included) believe and have saliently pointed out why doesn't make sense for the show without being criticized, "shamed," or having our loyalty and love toward the show negated, then I don't believe there is much hope that the show will ever return to what made so many people gravitate towards it in the first place. Personally, this is something that has made me lose a considerable amount of respect for the show.
Beautifully written, Adriana. You may not have written before, but I'm sure that many others will agree you said it well. Not that others haven't, because many who care deeply about this show have voiced their concerns very nicely, you said it so very eloquently and I thank you for that.
I believe we have all said enough, because we have written so much for so long, and if TPTB do not get our message loud and clear, then we are beating our heads against a wall.
I am very afraid that this may be the case. Maybe if the spin-off airs next week and gets few viewers, Ed will sit up and take notice.
In the meanwhile, all having been said, I say we shut up and start praying. Hard.
At this point, it surely can't hurt. At least not as much as beating our heads against the wall, right?
This fantasy made-up Morgan vs. Hotch power struggle is beginning to ruin other CM forums. Can we stop this and get back to discussing what really happens during an episode?
Despite the impassioned dissenters, I found this episode gripping as the audience actually got a peek into the criminals' minds. Quite frankly I'd rather a peek into their psyche than a child rapist or cannibal.
Regarding the anti-Seaver bandwagon, has it occurred to anyone that perhaps her character is an homage to Clarice Starling of The Silence of the Lambs (book and film)? Starling was still in-training when she interviewed Lecter and solved the case of Buffalo Bill.
I was an admirer of Paget Brewster long before her tenior on CM and her loss will be hard, but I'm not giving up on the show. It is one of the 'smartest' shows on television. If you want to compare programming IQ: the dumbest episode of Criminal Minds is still superior to the smartest episode of Hawaii Five-0.
Marsha, Criminal Minds is not Silence of the Lambs. Now, there could be unsubs inspired by events that occurred in that movie i.e. Buffalo Bill, Lecter, okay. But after a little over 5 years to say "Ok, we are now flipping the script and introducing a character that is totally out of the realm of what we have established for all of these seasons so that we can badly rip-off a character from a book/film," sorry, that is just not viable, nor is it acceptable. If this is something they had done in the beginning, okay, but to do it now is just, well, lame. The way the show flows, the way it is structured does not call for the addition of a cadet. For the movie the Silence of the Lambs it did because the movie was premised around that character, here, CM is premised around an elite unit o people pooling their expertise, knowledge and experience to catch predatory criminals.
The show has demonstrated that it has the capacity to create and insert characters that flow within its structure, a structure that has translated into success and loyal viewership. This was done with the Prentiss and Rossi characters and so there is no reason it cannot be done now.
Plus, I am sick to death of this being made into some asinine Anti-Seaver campaign (not saying you are doing this). For the love of God, it is not a personal thing against an individual, it is about critically looking at a show and deducing what will work for it in the long run; not some short-term band-aid to cover a gaping wound.
Again, the show has the capacity to develop a rich, multi-layered character that can add to the existing dynamic and experience off the team by creating one that is on the same playing field as the rest, not someone who is not qualified to be on the team, someone who is still training; this is just not feasible even for fiction, fiction as it is related to CM (BAU).
Marsha, you are correct.
According to Ed B, Seaver was indeed inspired by Clarice Starling of Silence of the Lambs and it was also his idea to add in her background having a serial killer father. I think this has been previously posted in this string a couple of times.
The point that Valerie and so many others have made about the show being established around an elite team of professionals, who had to have years of experience and/or exceptional credentials in order to be part of it, is the primary reason why it’s almost impossible for so many views to accept “the character” Seaver as she has been written.
For me, Clarice Starling has already been written, in a very good book and movie. If you need inspiration for a new character, why not go to real life for inspiration instead of a movie? I mean “no” disrespect to Rachel Nichols in saying this, “if you want Clarice Starling, hire Jody Foster to recreate her as she was written in Silence of the Lambs; just older, wiser, and tested by the years in the field. “
This was also one of my issues with “The Thirteenth Step”. It feels like a weak copy of a good movie and not the CM I’m used to watching; where we learn about the mind of the criminal through the BAU team. If TPTB were going to use Natural Born Killers as a template, I would have preferred they’d have hired Oliver Stone to direct it. He created the original…who better to clone it
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