Thursday, January 13, 2011

CRIMINAL MINDS FAN THREAD


Criminal Minds: What's on your mind? Use this thread to discuss Criminal Minds starring Joe Mantegna, Thomas Gibson, Paget Brewster, Shemar Moore, Matthew Gray Gubler and Kirsten Vangsness.

218 comments:

1 – 200 of 218   Newer›   Newest»
Maura Newman said...

Feels like we haven't had a new episode in months!

ivyhamster said...

This season has had too many highs and lows. The writing hasn't been consistent imho. And of course I miss JJ!

Kathryn said...

I wonder if Mommy Diana Reid will come visit Spencer...that is, if he is really ailing...yes, I pretty much agree. This season has a lot of highs and lows! It's really different w/o JJ..and Prentiss, eventually! T_T

P said...

I've been pretty frustrated with the show since the middle of Season 5, with a few exceptions. I haven't given up yet, but the last episode before the holiday hiatus definitely left a bad taste in my mouth.

Anonymous said...

I'm really shock by the picture, I'm not catastrophic, but...wahhhhhhhhh I'can't stand to know what will happen to Reid in the season. I think the episode Reid centric will be beautiful, touching and deep like the other about this character.

rosalioka

heartwideopen said...

LOVE the composition of this photo! hinting at a Reid-focused episode? hope so. I think season 6 got off to a great start. bringing Kirsten into more lead role was fantastic. but i love all the characters. the entire cast is awesome and way under-appreciated. it's too bad the season goes into such a long hiatus over the holidays-seems like we've lost the momentum of what could be their best season ever. looking forward to more great writing, acting & directing from this talented cast & crew. AND another MGG directed episode! YES!

Anonymous said...

Except for the adding of the Seaver character CM is still my favorite show on TV. I have quite enjoyed season six so far. Some eps more than others, but the same has been true for all the earlier seasons. I`m looking forward to the rest of the season.

I wish though Paget/Prentiss would stay but I love all of the original cast and characters.

Anonymous said...

Is that a promo pic for "Corazon"?
He looks like a sulking teenager waiting outside the principal's office. But then I looked at his surroundings. He appears to be in a hospital hallway. Those handrails are very common in hospitals and the table with magazines are common for waiting areas.
Nice subtle hangover glasses. LOL. If he wore those to work he'd catch hell from the team. Although he'd probably say something about a problem with his contact lenses.

I think the writing this season has been sloppy. Morgan has been written like a thug and the team as a whole have made amateur mistakes. They have overlooked things that they should have caught right away. And characterization has been inconsistent. I know the show can be so much better so it drives me batty to see the quality declining like this.

The end of 25 to Life was just awful.

And the bumping the show back thing is driving me crazy.

Cindy said...

I am looking forward to the new episode next week! I am hoping that it is going to be great. It certainly seems like it has the potential to be, but like some have already stated, the writing thus far this seaseon has been off. Adding to that "off" feeling is the void that JJ's character left (ugh, stil don't know why CBS in its infinite wisdom decided to fire her, huge mistake!). Now, it seems like the show is going a direction that is not in line with its premise, its foundation. I wrote this in another thread, but I think it bears repeating here. I really despise when shows violate the universe that they created for the show, the foundation, just so that they can insert a character who doesn't fit within that universe. The universe being that the BAU is a team with experienced team members who each bring their own expertise to the table. There is no way that cadet Seaver can do that, no way, unless they write her in an completely unrealistic way, as being able to pick up profiling with ease.

Seaver sitting at the team table and profiling during 25 to life was beyond ridiculous, and I'll say it again, insulting. If they needed to get another cast member (specifically a female cast member), why couldn't it have been someone with at least a shred of credibility and believability within the context of the show??? Someone strong, experienced and confident like JJ or Prentiss (well, at least the way they used to write the Prentiss character).

The issue with having a character like the Seaver character is that unless they write her in an unrealistic way (coming in and being able to profile off the bat like they did in 25 to life) then it is going to be this whole she is training, in the background kind of deal which would then beg the question, why did they have to get rid of JJ and push out Prentiss to bring in a character that is going to be in training, in the background? Is that a way to "refresh the show?" I don't think so. I think that this character is taking the show two steps back when it had the potential to take two steps forward. I think what makes this show great is the experience of sitting back and watching the profiling experts do what they do best, not sitting through some profiling 101 class. I don't need to know how they do what they do, I want to see them do it. This is why I am not interested in the show becoming a training ground for newbie cadets, or a show where just about anyone can join a team, a team that was once highly selective and skilled.

I am hoping that the show can get back to what originally made it such an engaging show and not become like so many other shows that start inserting implausible characters and storylines. Finally, I am beyond sick that Paget (Prentiss) is leaving the show, but I can totally understand why after the way that CBS treated both her and AJ. She is upset about that and no longer feels like she can trust CBS. Prentiss is a strong female character that I hope the writers see fit to use more in the show before she leaves, and by use more, I don't mean as a ploy to get the audience to buy the Seaver character because you have Prentiss mentoring her. Please let Prentiss shine in her own right.

Cindy said...

I am looking forward to the new episode next week! I am hoping that it is going to be great. It certainly seems like it has the potential to be, but like some have already stated, the writing thus far this seaseon has been off. Adding to that "off" feeling is the void that JJ's character left (ugh, stil don't know why CBS in its infinite wisdom decided to fire her, huge mistake!). Now, it seems like the show is going a direction that is not in line with its premise, its foundation. I wrote this in another thread, but I think it bears repeating here. I really despise when shows violate the universe that they created for the show, the foundation, just so that they can insert a character who doesn't fit within that universe. The universe being that the BAU is a team with experienced team members who each bring their own expertise to the table. There is no way that cadet Seaver can do that, no way, unless they write her in an completely unrealistic way, as being able to pick up profiling with ease.

Seaver sitting at the team table and profiling during 25 to life was beyond ridiculous, and I'll say it again, insulting. If they needed to get another cast member (specifically a female cast member), why couldn't it have been someone with at least a shred of credibility and believability within the context of the show??? Someone strong, experienced and confident like JJ or Prentiss (well, at least the way they used to write the Prentiss character).

The issue with having a character like the Seaver character is that unless they write her in an unrealistic way (coming in and being able to profile off the bat like they did in 25 to life) then it is going to be this whole she is training, in the background kind of deal which would then beg the question, why did they have to get rid of JJ and push out Prentiss to bring in a character that is going to be in training, in the background? Is that a way to "refresh the show?" I don't think so. I think that this character is taking the show two steps back when it had the potential to take two steps forward. I think what makes this show great is the experience of sitting back and watching the profiling experts do what they do best, not sitting through some profiling 101 class. I don't need to know how they do what they do, I want to see them do it. This is why I am not interested in the show becoming a training ground for newbie cadets, or a show where just about anyone can join a team, a team that was once highly selective and skilled.

I am hoping that the show can get back to what originally made it such an engaging show and not become like so many other shows that start inserting implausible characters and storylines. Finally, I am beyond sick that Paget (Prentiss) is leaving the show, but I can totally understand why after the way that CBS treated both her and AJ. She is upset about that and no longer feels like she can trust CBS. Prentiss is a strong female character that I hope the writers see fit to use more in the show before she leaves, and by use more, I don't mean as a ploy to get the audience to buy the Seaver character because you have Prentiss mentoring her. Please let Prentiss shine in her own right! I am really, really hoping Corazon will be good!

gubegirl said...

Thank you, Cindy, for continuing our conversation/ comments about the direction of the storyline here after talking just yesterday on the old blog dated in mid Dec.
Nice to have a more current place to post our comments.

We are worried about the quality of the show and how it appears to be suffering with the lack of credibility for the character Seaver. It's not the actress' fault; that would fall to the writers.

The respect that we have had for this show and its team for so many years is dwindling and I attribute it partly due to this silly addition of a trainee who did more of the profiling in "25 to Life" than did the remaining members of our beloved team.

What's with that?

And where is this Reid-hallucination-headache epi we were promised last nite? Now we must wait another week.

We had the BigBang Theory on here last nite despite my DVR cable box indicating it would be the "JJ" repeat. I am bumming.

Later.

Aimee said...

I really have to agree about the highs and lows this season. Besides being upset about AJ and Paget I have also felt the season has had too many meh episodes.

Elisabeth R. said...

Nice picture, thanks for posting it. The sun glasses make sense since Reid is suffering from blinding headaches.
It certainly looks like an hospital. I hope "Corazon" will be a good episode, filled with great team interactions and good scenes between Hotch and Reid.

Reid is young. By canon ("Masterpiece" from season four -4x08- and "Plain Sight" from season 1) he's turning, or has just turned, 29 this season.
When someone this young is seriously sick it's difficult for the family. I hope this will turn into a nice Reid arc.

As for this season, we are all suffering from the loss of AJ/JJ and are depressed over Paget B./Prentiss probably leaving. It's a difficult situation.

But I'm trying to not let it affect my judgment of the episodes and of the show as a whole. There were episodes I loved ("JJ", "Into the Woods", "Compromising Position" and "Middle Man" were awesome in my opinion).

I can honestly say that if I have a difficult time buying Seaver as a BAU team member, it's not because of AJ and Paget. I just can't see a complete rookie not yet out of the Academy able to profile. I'm sorry, but I just can't.
I know that Reid wasn't an experienced agent when the show started (one or two years into the BAU), and was only 23. But at least he had been with the team for one or two years and we saw he was still learning.
I can imagine Reid helping out but not participating too much in the profile in his first year.

I think the writers should let Ashley's character learn at first, and not participate in the profiles. She should listen and ask questions. It would be much more realistic.
It might not add too much to the show, granted, but we weren't the ones who asked for a young FBI Cadet to integrate the team.
Maybe Seaver could help out in other ways.

Anonymous said...

I'm a new fan of Criminal Minds. Still catching up on reruns and watching the new season. They had three beautiful and strong female leads. WHY are we changing it up? Why did AJ get the boot, Paget is supposedly going after this year? Don't get me wrong, I love Kirsten and if they were going to give her a larger role that would tickle me PInk. I'd love to see more Morgan/Garcia time. Find out more about P's past..where are her brothers? Why did she really go underground. I think there is very much a bigger story there. I just think it's odd that out of a season of SECRETS the secret they come up with for her is..she's in theater?

LaShawna said...

I personally am excited about “Corazon”, because it looks like a Reid-centric episode, and we haven’t had one of those in a year. However, part of me is filled with dread. Mainly because the episode writer is new, so I don’t know how familiar she is with the show and the team dynamics. I’m hoping she writes the team and the case very well, because my issue with some of the episodes this year is that the writing and team characterization have felt off. The show hardly deals with any interpersonal friendships anymore, except Penelope/Morgan, and it has kind of become sort of an obsession of Penelope’s. She’s so focused on Morgan to almost the exclusion of anyone else. Poor Reid has just been off by himself and nobody seems to care about his well-being anymore. It’s like the writers know that many viewers like their teasing friendship, so they focus on that. However, we like many other friendships that have been overlooked this year: Reid/Morgan no longer have that brotherly friendship, Reid/Penelope no longer have that brother-sister relationship. I know the Hotch/Emily shippers are chomping at the bit for just a bit of friendship between the two. Since JJ left there has hardly been much team interaction, and I dearly miss that. I still love MOST (though notably not all) of the episodes this year, but I do miss those little moments of either friendship or personal revelation that made us fall in love with these characters in the first place.
All of this makes me dread Ashley’s reappearance even more, for two different reasons. I wrote this on other sites, but if Emily leaves the BAU and Ashley is the only female profiler, the team will have four very experienced, highly trained male profilers, and one inexperienced, untrained and unqualified female profiler. I’ve never really complained about the show only having one female profiler, because that accurately reflects the gender demographics of the real BAU. But now it’s not just an imbalance of gender, but an imbalance of qualifications. Emily was WAY more qualified and prepared to be a profiler, and still she had to work her butt off to be accepted by the team and Hotch in particular. If Ashley comes to the team and she’s already supposed to be a skilled profiler, and she is readily accepted as a team member, I will cry bulls**t. That flies in the face of everything this show and this team has been about up to this point. The second reason I fear Ashley is that someone else pointed out the possibility of Ashley being the writers’ and producers’ “shiny new toy.” They’ll be so excited to write for her and her character that the rest of the main characters will get short shrift. We’ll see when Ashley returns later this year, and I hope that is not true.
As it stands I am eagerly awaiting next week’s episode. It will have been over a month since we’ve had a new episode. I just hope it meets my expectations for story AND characterization.

LaShawna said...

I personally am excited about “Corazon”, because it looks like a Reid-centric episode, and we haven’t had one of those in a year. However, part of me is filled with dread. Mainly because the episode writer is new, so I don’t know how familiar she is with the show and the team dynamics. I’m hoping she writes the team and the case very well, because my issue with some of the episodes this year is that the writing and team characterization have felt off. The show hardly deals with any interpersonal friendships anymore, except Penelope/Morgan, and it has kind of become sort of an obsession of Penelope’s. She’s so focused on Morgan to almost the exclusion of anyone else. Poor Reid has just been off by himself and nobody seems to care about his well-being anymore. It’s like the writers know that many viewers like their teasing friendship, so they focus on that. However, we like many other friendships that have been overlooked this year: Reid/Morgan no longer have that brotherly friendship, Reid/Penelope no longer have that brother-sister relationship. I know the Hotch/Emily shippers are chomping at the bit for just a bit of friendship between the two. Since JJ left there has hardly been much team interaction, and I dearly miss that. I still love MOST (though notably not all) of the episodes this year, but I do miss those little moments of either friendship or personal revelation that made us fall in love with these characters in the first place.
All of this makes me dread Ashley’s reappearance even more, for two different reasons. I wrote this on other sites, but if Emily leaves the BAU and Ashley is the only female profiler, the team will have four very experienced, highly trained male profilers, and one inexperienced, untrained and unqualified female profiler. I’ve never really complained about the show only having one female profiler, because that accurately reflects the gender demographics of the real BAU. But now it’s not just an imbalance of gender, but an imbalance of qualifications. Emily was WAY more qualified and prepared to be a profiler, and still she had to work her butt off to be accepted by the team and Hotch in particular. If Ashley comes to the team and she’s already supposed to be a skilled profiler, and she is readily accepted as a team member, I will cry bulls**t. That flies in the face of everything this show and this team has been about up to this point. The second reason I fear Ashley is that someone else pointed out the possibility of Ashley being the writers’ and producers’ “shiny new toy.” They’ll be so excited to write for her and her character that the rest of the main characters will get short shrift. We’ll see when Ashley returns later this year, and I hope that is not true.
As it stands I am eagerly awaiting next week’s episode. It will have been over a month since we’ve had a new episode. I just hope it meets my expectations for story AND characterization.

Hailey said...

Well I personally am loving this season, much more so than last season. I don't mind agent Seaver, and I look forward to seeing what she can bring to the table.

What I'm wondering is when we're going to get a promo for "Corazon?" I've been waiting! I thought it would be last night, but then we didn't get one and I can't seem to find one. Looking forward to this episode sooo much.

Madara said...

just still sad and angry what CBS did to JJ and will do with Emily...worrying about Spencer...and the episodes aren't as good as they were...

Athina said...

I love CM! I absolutely adore it! Ever since I downloaded an episode by accident.
However, I must agree that so far this season, it has been frustrating: AJ leaving for no apparent good reason, being replaced (God know why!) by a young girl with no “flare”, Paget on her way out, and worst of all, writing below CM standards. So far, season 6 has not produced anything memorable in the writing department. It seems to me that Ed is paying more attention to the spin-off than the original and soon this will start to show on the ratings as well. I trully hope I am wrong.
To be honest, the only reason I am still watching is Thomas Gibson, whom I consider to be one the best TV actors today. By the way, his performance in “100” was really worthy of an EMMY.
It is painful to see such a good series go downhill. Even though I trully loved the show, I am not sure how much longer I will continue to watch.

Barbara said...

First off, I am a huge CM fan and what I am about to say is not a slam on Rachel Nichols, but rather the character of Ashley Seaver. A little bit prior to AJ being fired from the show, the writing started to slip. After her departure, oh man, the feel of the show is off. This, I think, is not solely attributable to the writing but the loss of the character. I am not going to go on about AJ being gone because unfortunately I doubt CBS will ever be smart or humble enough to get her back. What is outrageous however is the fact that instead of creating a strong female character who is realistically able to be on the BAU we get Seaver. Yes, this is a fictional show but its base is that the team is super skilled and each member has his/her own expertise that adds to creating the profile. Seaver is a cadet, a cadet, a cadet. I meant to write that 3 times for emphasis. Why would CBS and CM think it is acceptable to make all of these changes (first firing writers and then AJ and pushing out Paget)and then try and serve us a sub par character? Is that how much they undervalue the fans and the show itself? I am sure Rachel Nichols is nice, but this character is a severe departure for the show that I don't believe will add any benefit for CM. I find it appauling that a strong female character was not written into the show. Because she is a cadet or a trainee or whatever she cannot be as strong as the males on the show unless they write her as a profiler which she can't be. Sorry, but she is a weak character for this show, a weak female character. Very disappointing and a big turn off.

sf81387 said...

I've enjoyed Season 6 for the most part. There have been a couple of episodes that weren't very good, but there's episodes in every season that are stinkers. There has been entirely too much of Morgan and Garcia though. Garcia needs to go back to her lair and stay there and enough with the stalkerish crush she has on the guy. Their occasional flirty banter used to be amusing, but now it's just uncomfortable. It's like she doesn't care about anyone else on the team but her precious Morgan. It's creepy.

sf81387 said...

Oh, and I don't have a problem with Ashley Seaver. I haven't seen enough of her or her character to love or hate the character.

Melanie said...

i think others have touched on this so I will try not to spend to much time on it. The writing and the feel for the show has been off lately. And yes, I think that has to do with the fact that AJ's character is not on the scene, but there is nothing that can be done about that because I don't see anyway that they will ask her to come back. Meanwhile, they should have never asked her to leave, but that is a moot point. I agree with most of the people's concern and assessment of the Seaver character. Yes, she has only been in 2 episodes, but the problem is not how much or how little she has been featured on the show so far, the problem is the character. She is not qualified to be a member of the BAU, period! I don't care how they try to dance around it, but that is the case and I too think it is pathetic that there are 4 experienced male profilers and 1 unqualified female trainee. I am not counting Prentiss in this because she is basically out of there and Garcia is not a field agent.

It is 2011 CBS and Criminal Minds, please reflect that in your casting and stop getting rid of strong female characters only to give us underqualified female characters in relation to the strong male characters. That is not credible and it is weak!

Anonymous said...

cant wait for next week's eppy. it seems like so long since we have had a new one!

cmwinner

Sarah said...

Looking forward to the new episode!! It seems like there hasn't been a new episode in forever. I hope that it is a good episode, looks like it will be!However, I have to agree 100% with what most have said about the writing lately and the Seaver character. I hope someone seriously takes in all of these concerns.

Anonymous said...

I can not WAIT for this episode. we haven't have a Reid-centric episode for ages, and this one looks like it's going to be good. I am a bit worried about what the writers are going to do to him, but really as long as we get a Reid centred episode I don't mind. We haven't really had any Reid/Morgan bonding since season 4, which I really miss, but Thomas Gibson said that his secret would bring the team closer, so I am hoping that he means Reid/rest of the team moments.
About Seaver - I seem to be in the minority of people who don't mind her. I mean, we have only seen her in two episodes so far, so I don't think we should judge her too much yet. I liked her in What Happens at Home, and the rest of the team seem to like her. I do agree that it doesn't make much sense to put a cadet on the team, but when you think about it, it doesn't really make much sense to put a 22 year old with no field experience on the team either. I mean, Reid did say that they had to bend the rules to get him on the team. I don't think we would have liked Reid as much if he was brought into the team after the show started. I think we should wait and let her character develop a bit more before we give her the official thumbs up/thumbs down.
It's true that the writing has gone slightly downhill since season 5, but there were a lot of good episodes in seasons 5 and 6 so far. The season 6 premiere was one of the best, and 100 was one of my favourite episodes of all time - I LOVED the whole Foyet storyline! This episode, and the upcoming Prentiss storyline for the two episodes after Corazon look really good. I can't wait for CM to come back - it feels like years since the last episode!

cachew lover said...

I am still trying to figure out when they are going to tell us the "secrets" that this season was supposed to be about. JJ having a job offer isn't much of a secret.

If not for TG I wouldn't be watching anymore.

Mary said...

Been reading the comments and I haev to say that I too am super excited for this episode!!! Reid has been pretty much silent for a while now and so it will be good to see him front and center again :) Ok, with regard to the writing, yes, unfortunately I have to agree that the writing has been off for some time now and I am hoping that it picks back up. To the point about the Seaver character, I think pretty much everything has been said that I would say so I will just let what seems to be the majority of the opinions about her character speak for me. I think the comment above me by Anonymous is not entirely correct with respect to how Reis got on the team. Reid was allowed to enter into the FBI/BAU because he is a genius, he has an exceptional mind that has been proven time and again to be of a great asset to the team. Reid being asked on the team is believable and credible because he possesses a great intellect, and it is that intellect that Gideon saw and tapped into for the team. From day one, we have seen that intellect at work- he has gotten more field ready as the time went on, but he definitely deserved a spot on the BAU because of that intellect (that is evident in most, if not all of the older episodes where he first appeared). The BAU deals with the minds of the unsubs and so it would be foolish not to get someone like Reid a genius to get in there with his mind and work out profiles. Seaver is not a genius, she is just a cadet in the FBI that does not qualify for a spot on the team.

Anonymous said...

I can't wait to watch the next episode. It's about time they had a Reid episode. I just hope that it's not wrapped up in one episode and that's all we see of him in season 6. He's such an amazing character and they aren't showing enough of him lately. Don't they understand what a huge fan base he has? I really hope his problem does bring the team closer like Thomas Gibson mentioned in an interview.

Has anyone seen the promo for Corazon?

Meg said...

Oohhh...I love that pic of Reid. I'm looking forward SO much to Corazon. It's been way, way too long since we last had a Reid centric episode. It will be good to see him front and centre of an episode at last, I've been missing my boy genius. He's a fabulous character and he's being wasted. I'm a huge fan of the Reid angst so this episode is getting me giddy with excitement. I just hope that I'm not disappointed. I'm also hoping that Reid is getting a story arc this year and that whatever is wrong with him isn't dealt with and got over in the one episode. I hope this is just the start of some good Reid episodes ahead.

Plus I'm hoping that whatever is wrong with Reid will bring the 'family' element back to CM and we see the team being close again. For as much as this season was touted as being about 'family' there's been precious little of that in evidence so far this year. It would be nice to see more of the friendships between the team members and not just the one between Morgan and Garcia which is getting a bit uncomfortable. I've been sorely missing the Reid and Morgan relationship, I'd love to see some of that back again too.

Despite the lack of Reid so far, for the most part I have enjoyed S6 - with the exception of 25 To Life and the introduction of Seaver.

Anonymous said...

This Seaver character has really got to go! Now people are saying that Seaver's story isn't believable and it may not be, but at the same time she could make it believable by playing the part. I feel that they could have found somebody A LOT better then her. She just doesn't seem like a profiler, at least JJ, she wasn't a profiler, but I am honestly confused as to what Seaver is. In my mind she is neither a liason, or a profiler. So, her character and her acting leave me very confused by the end of each episode.

Amy said...

Reid is one of my favorite characters (Prentiss is the other one, but I am not even going to go there since that whole situation is upsetting). Will be good to see what Reid's secret is and if it will live up to all of the pre- Reid secret hype. Hope so!

Well, got to add my two cents about all of the cast shake-ups, the writing and cast addition. Maybe I am just speaking for myself, but I don't get the feel that the people that have a problem with Seaver character are just anti-Seaver because of what happened to JJ and what will eventually happen to Prentiss. It is just that as longtime fans we know that a cadet in the BAU is ridiculous. To Mary's point about Reid, absolutely, Reid was an exception because he is a genius and the show is about criminal minds, so his entry fits, Seaver's doesn't. It is not a question of time, the whole "We'll wait to see how this character shakes out scenario," it is that no matter how you position it, the show will have to make compromises to add a cadet onto the team. There is no way around that and that leads to the eliteness of the team being degraded and that will seep into the writing of future storylines. You can't add a cadet to the team and not lose that special quality that made the team so specialized.

To an earlier commenter, I too don't like when shows change the structure of what they are all about in order to add a character. Want to add a character, okay, but please make it someone who can hang with the team that Criminal Minds is all about, a team of experts, not trainee's.

Anonymous said...

Haven't seen Thomas Gibson since December 8 episode, "What Happens at Home." It was a disgrace that he was no where to be found in "25 to Life." TG is the only reason I watch, so that episode was a waste.

No Hotch/Prentiss scenes at all in season 6. I long for scenes like those in Bloodline, Seven Seconds, 52 Pick-up, Ashes & Dust, Nameless Faceless, Haunted, Outfoxed, the list goes on. These are some of the best Criminal Minds episodes ever written; and yet you continue to give us tripe and silly ogling,school-girl dialogue between Morgan/Garcia. BTW, isn't she supposed to be with Kevin. I like the Morgan/Garcia friendship, but it does get sickening sometimes.

That's why CM can't get taken seriously for critical awards, it chooses to stoop to the ridiculous and the cringeworthy, rather than serious acting and poignant dialogue between great actors. And the writing has taken a major hit this season. Andrew Wilder's writing was the best CM had. You could do yourselves a major service if you could rehire him.

And you need to give Thomas Gibson a long-term contract, with a substantial boost in everything. If you lose him, the show is dead. I don't care what anyone says, the episode without him proved that CM is lightweight without him. His absence left a major void.

Lucille said...

I'm having serious withdrawal from new Criminal Minds episodes. It seems like ages since we've had a new one and I'm thrilled the next one sounds like a Reid centric episode.

I've noticed Reid's role has been very limited this year. He's kept back at the local office reviewing maps and crunching numbers or if with the group has limited dialogue. When there is some jovial interaction he's being made fun of, and not in a very loving way. So, that brings me to the picture. Here we have is Reid sitting in the hospital --- alone! I'm probably reading way to much in the picture but like others, I miss the family-type bond the team had and would like to see it return.

I do not want Paget to leave CM. They need the balance of her character. Plus I think she's a great actress (as was AJ Cook).

I watch the show because of the great stories and the interaction between the character and those yummy men, all of who bring something special to the (round) table.

Loren said...

I'm dying for next week to be here already!!!

And where is the promo for Corazon?!?

Anonymous said...

I am dying to see this next episode mainly because it's about Reid. I hope there are many more to come. Episodes about him tend to interest me the most. He's such a complex and interesting character. They need to start giving him more screen time. He has tons of fans so I'm not sure why they'ce limited it. I know this is a major problem for a lot of poeple.

Anonymous said...

I need more Prentiss...I need more Hotch/Prentiss scenes...and after Paget leaves, I'm done with this show.

Anne said...

I just watched the promo trailer for the new upcoming episode and I never thought I would say this about a criminal minds episodes about Reid, but it looks ridiculous.
I hope I can take the episode seriously after watching it.
And while we are on that, when did the character of Reid become such a supporting only character that it takes 12 episodes so we can get some focus on him, and then, much like last season's The Uncanny Valley, that be it, no more Reid episodes?
You writers don't know how to write for the character anymore?

gubegirl said...

I am so glad we have a place to write and catch up and you are all out there dying for a new epi the way I am!

To comment on other posts:

No way can Reid can be compared to Seaver. Not only is he a genius to set him apart from others his age, he has THREE (3) PhDs to back that up! His qualifications speak for themselves. We have yet to see Seaver's qualifications other that her time on the obstacle course and the fact that her dad was a serial killer. Jeez.

I also miss the family element to the show. Given the number of years they have been together, that should be growing, not diminishing. That should be played up, given the loss of JJ, too.

I also miss the Morgan/big brother role he had going with Reid - long time, no see. It exemplified the reality of their totally differnt personalities, ages and experience levels plus showed off both their sensitivities - I found it to be endearing as well as believable.

Morgan and Garcia banter: what used to be cute has gotten old. Esp when she demonstrates more concern (how is MY Morgan?" than the others - I say, it's too much and no longer find it entertaining.

Also agree that we are WAY overdue for a Reid-centric epi and hope that it is more than one show; not just because he is my fave and I want to see more of him but because if there is a serious issue (health? affecting his job?) to make it credible, it NEEDS to last for more than one epi.

I also miss Andrew Wilder. His scripts were great and he kept the characters "in character" and I think, if my memory serves me correctly, his "history" of the characters was kept accurate as well, which is so important to us Fanatics.

Am hoping against hope that Paget is staying, that CBC and TPTB have come to their senses and will cut their losses with JJ alone being gone. I hope that Paget will be given some meaty storylines that will make her want to stay. She is wonderful in her role and an excellent role model for women, young and old.

Finally: we, the majority, agree:
Give Seaver a befitting role or get rid of her! She doesn't fit and it drags the quality of the show down tremendously.

Enuf.

superben said...

I love this season so far. Can't get enough of this show. The writing and acting is always superb. I was wondering if anyone knows if Matthew Gray Gubler is going to direct another episode? Oh and it's weird not seeing a.j. cook there.

Mephisto said...

I have been slightly disappointed with CM since the end of the Reaper arc (which was AWESOME), but was massively impressed with the season premiere which I thought was awesome. However with the exception of the premiere and Episode 4, 8 and 9 Season 6 is by far the worst one ever. The bad episodes are so bad it is unreal. And forgive me Rachel Nichols but your character is just the most annoying thing ever on TV. That constant uninformed babbling is just insufferable but then I believe that has more to do with how she is written than with the Rachel Nichols who I actually quite like....just not on CM as a cadet in an elite unit please (who came up with that ridiculous idea anyway?). I hope they manage to get back to former quality as I then will start watching again but after the last episode before Christmas I am definitely out for now, and I am tired of giving them the benefit of the doubt. I have always watched and loved this show since the pilot but enough is enough!

Romy Skye said...

This season had been in the gutter as far as I am concerened. Even if, by some miracle season 7 get's picked up, I do not see a season 8 in the future.

After JJ, it's like the show is trying SO hard and with episodes like Reflections of Desire and 25 to Life, it seems like a completely different show!!!

And as much as I love KV, my God, enough with Garcia! In this season alone, she's had SO much focus and screentime! It's like they're trying to shove her down our throats! And like the others have mentioned, the Derek and Garcia thing is getting old and contrived!

I am looking forward to seeing the Prentiss story arc. I hope they kill her off, because, to me, no other reason for her leaving the BAU is believable.

The Ashley Seaver storyline is a little weird. I understood the first episode she was in, but n 25 to life, she seemed rather useless. I'm going to wait a few episodes before deciding if I like the character or not.

Anonymous said...

While waiting for the new episode, I've been watching past episodes from Seasons 1-5 and I can honestly say that I feel that the quality has slightly degraded. My favorite season is probably Season 4, and I feel that towards the end and most definitely the start of Season 6, the show is not what it used to be.
First of all, what happened to the Morgan/Reid brotherly teasing and scenes? Recently, its either at the two extreme ends of the spectrum; either there is no comic relief scenes or full on Morgan/Garcia flirting.
Also, WHAT'S WITH THE MORGAN/PRENTISS PAIRING. Prentiss has been paired up with him in every single episode in Season 6. The thing I loved about this show was the cast interaction and so far all I have is Morgan/Prentiss. I would really like to see Prentiss interact with Reid, Hotch, and Garcia. Reid because I like her sisterly banter with him and she was the only one who kind of truly understood his facts; and recently she's been ignoring him. Hotch, because I loved Season 4 where they were paired up a lot. I feel that they really compliment each other. And finally Garcia, because it's been a while since the viewers have gotten a "girls night out" scene and with JJ gone, all the most reason to.
With Ashley Seaver, I tried to be unbiased on her first episode but really, all I learned was that she is an emotional person whose father was a serial killer who liked to hold her hand yet never gave her a dog. Being her first episode, I cut her some slack, but her appearance in "25 to life" was truly disappointing. Honestly, I felt that her lines were useless. For example, when Prentiss identified that there were possibly 2 or more unsubs, Seaver stated something along the lines of "so we are working with a team". I felt that that line was absolutely unecessary. In addition, when she asks Reid how Morgan was doing, I literally found myself inwardly groaning - Morgan just approved the parole of a man who killed again, I don't think he would feel over the moon. I agree with Cindy that her lack of expertise can also be seen as insulting.
Yet, many people are saying to give her a chance and how when Prentiss was first introduced, she was received rather harshly as well. However, for me, I loved the character of Prentiss, and the actress Paget, immediantly because she stood up to Hotch, and proved herself a vital asset to the team in the following episode. She also brought her witty sarcasm and that speech about politics making people distrustful is probably one of my all time favourite lines.
While on the topic of Prentiss and Seaver, I didn't particularly like how Hotch was almost dead set against Prentiss joining the BAU, stating that you had to have experience and you can't just let whoever wants to join, join. But, isn't that basically what Seaver is doing? Also, when in the "25 50 life" episode she broke the rules and left without a supervisory agent, all Hotch did was half yell/half state that he was disappointed, while Prentiss was scrutinized for almost an entire season.
To tie up my opinion of the character of Seaver, so far from what I have seen, I am extremely disappointed and no absolutely no need for her. This may sound harsh, but it is my honest opinion.
In the future I would really like to see the reappearance of Prentiss' linguistic skills. I adored her speaking Russian, and Spanish, and I really really really hope that she gets a chance to speak FRENCH.

Anonymous said...

Also, if you look back on the earlier episodes, there was some humour and I feel that in Season 6, it's been all dark. I can still remember the hilarious scene with Prentiss, Garcia, and JJ with "Brad the FBI Agent". There needs to be more humourous scenes like this.
And it's been a while since the team hang out together after a case.
Hopefully the rest of Season 6 does continue to improve, with most cast interactions, and since Seaver is now officially part of the BAU, at least try to make her sound like she has more expertise than a grade two student or frankly, get rid of her.
I like seeing strong and intelligent female role models, Emily Prentiss being my prime example. And in comparison to her, Seaver is a weak character and I would never see her as a female model. Basically I agree with gubegirl: "Give Seaver a befitting role or get rid of her! She doesn't fit and it drags the quality of the show down tremendously."
I really hope the show regains its momentum soon because deep down, it is a fantastic show.

Diana said...

Just saw the promo for the Corazon episode.. I hope the episode is better than the promo which was kind of weird. Voodoo, headaches... well let's see. I am definitely going to see it and hope for the best. I love the character of Reid and am excited that he is being highlighted after such a long time.

Don't want to go on a long thing about what a lot of people have written here, but yeah, this season thus far has been lacking and with the introduction of this ridiculous Cadet Seaver character, I don't know. If things don't improve, I am going to have to bail after Prentiss leaves. I was basically holding on to see the Reid episode and to see Prentiss final episodes which I am hoping to god are written in a way that will show that character respect and dignity. So sad that such a kick butt female character is leaving the show.

Thanks to the "geniuses" at CBS who thought it was a good idea to fire AJ and to basically mess with Paget to the point that she no longer trusts the network and wants to leave :( Oh and firing Andrew Wilder, huge mistake!

k-mart said...

Does anyone know where I can watch the promo for Corazon???I can't find it anywhere. One of the commenters "Anne" said she watched it and I relly want to know where it is.
Also, I cannot wait for this episode, been way too long for a Reid-episode. And everyone, you are so right! The writers have gotten character information and spefic bonds mixed up that it is just embarrassing.

And another thing, please give Seaver a chance. I too am still going through JJ Withdrawl, but I still think that we should just get more background on Seaver, other than her childhood.
I am so worried about Reid, however, he's listed in the cast for the next few episodes, and I highly doubt that he'll be leaving anytime soon. He has a huge fan base, is a great character for the writers to play around with, and he is a good comedy relief character to have on a show with dark subjects. He is the character that can say something and people will believe it because it is believable with his character. That is not excluding any other characters, they are all well written and well played.

sdwally said...

First I’d like to say that if Ed, the writers and cast don’t do everything to get Paget to return for Season 7, they’ll wind up regretting it. Her departure in Season 6 will leave CM bereft of one of the most positive, unique, and soulful characters on television today; and one of the classiest, wittiest, and most engaging ladies in the industry.

The fans did their part to get CBS to reverse its decision and to demonstrate our love for both actresses and the characters they play. We could not save AJ, but Paget, they gave a reprieve. But it appears our efforts and outcry weren’t enough to assuage Paget’s sense of hurt and disrespect caused by CBS’s treatment of her. Since the fans’ support may not be enough to demonstrate to Paget that it takes a village, not just a network; maybe if the rest of the cast, crew, producers and Ed join us to convince her that we make up the majority of the village that wants her to stay with CM. I know you all already have; but you’ll never find a group of fans more devoted, supportive, vocal and responsive as the CM fans. I don’t care where she chooses to go.

That being said, this experience has taught me that even when you fight for someone and you score what you believe maybe a partial victory, you still lose; because people still may choose to walk away anyway. Enough of that…

Please don’t waste Paget’s last few episodes this season simply setting her up for the big exit scene. I would love to see solid writing, natural team interaction, and some stirring Hotch/Prentiss interaction. Please don’t make Prentiss’ departure one unbelievable disclosure after another until you’ve buried her under so much manure that she can’t dig her way out. That would be a huge disappointment.

Whoever had the foolish idea to leave Thomas Gibson out of the last episode should be banished from writer’s table for the rest of the season. There are no excuses: gone golfing, gone fishing, gone bar-hopping does not compute. His scenes could have been shot earlier or later and been edited in. I believe this was some crazy experiment to see how it would play with fans; to see if Morgan could carry the story on his own; to see something that really did not need to be seen. It didn’t work. Another deleted, never to be repeated episode, along with the first two Seaver episodes.

I don’t know what to say about Ashley Seaver. No Ed, it’s not that we’re still missing JJ and need to give the character a chance. Nothing against Rachel Nichols, I still don’t understand the logic of using the same mold for a new character, when the old character was doing just fine. If you want to go in a different direction make the character unique and different. Ashley looks too much like JJ, same coloring, same look. That’s why people are scratching their heads. You brought in mini-me JJ, with no experience, no backbone, no skills, simply a couple of years younger—just to give Reid a friend and confidant? I guess if she had been ethnic, the natural gravitation would have been toward Morgan? Is that why Ashley had to be blonde and a JJ look-a-like?

I’m sure with all of the complaints she’ll magically acquire some unique something that no one knew about. I can’t wait to see what super powers you’ll eventually bestow on her. cont...

sdwally said...

cont...

I hope you treat Thomas Gibson the same way or as well as you treat Forest Whitaker on the spinoff. He may not have an Oscar under his belt, but he has given CM nearly seven years of solid, dedicated acting and service and is the heart of the series. An Oscar does not guarantee you success on television as Whitaker’s previous failed projects demonstrate. But Gibson has gone from one successful series to Criminal Minds; and he has truly been under-appreciated for his work. You should give him a producer credit to go along with all of those other named producers on CM.

Gibson should be treated like Mark Harmon, Gary Sinise, and David Caruso. Only Harmon’s NCIS can lay claim to doing better than CM. And for those who say it’s an ensemble, yes it is; however, all the individuals in an ensemble aren’t necessarily equal. Ask AJ and Paget.

Finally, the writing desperately needs to improve. As someone said above, you need Andrew Wilder back of someone of his caliber. The scripts have been lacking in continuity, illogical and overly graphic in some cases. And some have been devoid of profiling. I’m looking for better quality writing and directing in the second half of the season.

That being said, I do love Criminal Minds and I love the cast. It remains my favorite television show ever. As long as TG is there, I’ll stick around.

Anonymous said...

everytime morgan and garcia talk on the phone i change channels. i can't stand it. it's gross.
this 6th season has been terrible. i only liked episode 2 "JJ". so far... it really sucks.
i've been watching a re-airing of season 5, watched the 10th (Haley's funeral), again, today, and i miss those episodes. since episode 11 of the 5th that we don't see Hotch and Emily together anymore (except the 23rd of the 5the and 1st of the 6th, but only for a few seconds, when they were stopped in traffic). they're the only reason why i watch Criminal Minds. i can't stand if Emily gets involve with that french guy who will be coming around soon (and she probably will get involved with him romantically, because she hasn't had a relationship since GOD created the universe), and then to see him killing her.

Diana said...

K-mart, there is a promo on the CBS website. And, not to start anything, but I don't think it is fair that you chalk up the comments about Seaver as simply missing JJ. At least for me, that is not the case. The Seaver character is weak. She is cadet, which right there disqualifies her of having any credibility to serve with experienced profilers and as such that will discredit the show because unless it is revealed that she is some type of genius like Reid she doesn't have the years of experience and knowledge it would take to serve in the BAU.

Reina said...

sdwally, for sure if they read these comments and others written elsewhere, they are going bestow Seaver with some magical powers that no one ever knew about to try and make her character more believable. But, sorry, as of 25 to Life she is still in the academy, and still in remedial training, so unless her serial killing dad gave her some psych courses that would go towards a PH.D in forensic psychology, I'm not buying it.

Diana, so true! I am tired of the first thing that people say when you have a criticism about the Seaver character is that you are missing JJ and are bitter that CBS fired her. Can people look at and analyze what is being said before jumping to that conclusion.

I am looking forward to this episode and am hoping that it will be good. I love the Reid character and hope this is a good episode for that character

k-mart said...

Unfortunately, the promo is not aviable to me, because of where I am. Also, Diana, I did mention that I want to find out more about Seaver, find out what her qualifications are. I totally agree that she isn't the right fit for the show, and that she is a clone of JJ, which is quite awkward and creepy all at the same time. I did not mean that I was missing JJ as the only reason. I agree with you on all parts. But really, a cadet joins the BAU is wacked, unless she will be helping victims or something like that, however, since she is a cadet, it is highly unlikely. I doubt she'll be on the show that much longer, this is due to her being in cadets. That is liekly why the writers did that. A quick and easy way to get rid of her.

Diana said...

Oh, okay, K-mart, understood.

If 25 to life is any indication, they are going to have her in there profiling which is beyond ridiculous.

There is a promo clip on You Tube. I would add the link, but am not sure if that is allowed on this blog. If you search under Criminal Minds- Corazon, I believe you will find it.

Anonymous said...

Criminal Minds is thisclose to jumping the shark. I'm sitting watching old reruns on ION and they just showed Profiler, Profiled, No Way Out and Revelations and OMG comparing the show then and now...its like its not even the same show. I don't understand how a show that gave us such rich, complex and compelling GUEST characters like Diana Reid and Nathan Harris can turn around give us Seaver as series regular! I adore Rachel Nichols, but I hate Seaver with the power of 1000 suns. And it has nothing to do with JJ/AJ. The character is just bad and beyond ridiculous. There is no way Hotch would have stood for her foolishness. The man put the smackdown on Jordan when she messed up and she was an accomplished, respected agent at the time. Seaver is just all kinds of suck, sorry. It makes no sense that a CADET would get a spot on a BAU team...agents covet those spots for years. Hotch had to be convinced to give Elle and Emily a shot, no way he'd just be all ok dokey with Seaver on his team, especially after losing JJ. At least when they brought on a replacement for Elle they made it someone who was plausible. The writing has been horribly inconsistent and even the characterization has been off. Who on earth was that pretending to be Hotch in that AWFUL spin-off? And we won't even get started on Morgan-when did he turn into a jerk? And Reid...is he even still there? All they ever have him do is make a geographical profile. Garcia has a bigger part then he does now...and sorry, but Garcia as a media liason is BEYOND a joke. Rossi never gets anything to do unless they are digging up old cases and Prentiss...don't even get me started. Its like they are going away from everything that made the show successful in the first place. Almost all the relationships have been compromised, namely Hotch/Reid and Morgan/Reid. Those interactions have been painfully nonexistent. And Garcia and Morgan are getting over the top. Its like everything is off and I'm watching more out of habit and hope than actual enjoyment. I mean I watch an episode like What Happens at Home and then go back and watch Sex, Birth, Death and man, its like my show has been visited by the suck fairy.

Anonymous said...

I know its been repeated so much but I just want to say that I agree with so many of previous comments.

Yes, we all do miss JJ, but that's not the reason we dislike Seaver. It has more to do with the fact that she's lacking ... well, everything. And that being said, just watch the writers suddenly write her something amazingly special that only she has etc, in the next few episodes, but I doubt that will make me like her. It'll just make her seem... more fake and forced.

Yes, Derek and Garcia's conversations can provide comic relief but its getting a tad repetitive and too much. I like how it just to be playful and funny, but now it feels more like its slathered on too thick.

Hotch and Prentiss. Even if they are not romantically involved, I really would like to see some scenes between those two characters. So far, its been Morgan/Prentiss in every single new episode. Hotch and Prentiss play off/ bounce ideas off each other so well. Also, since her first episode, it's been mentioned that he worked for her mother before, so I would absolutely learn about Hotch's time working for the Ambassador, and perhaps even with Emily. I feel that they are the two strongest characters that hold the team together. She's like the mother figure and him the father. So, having at least a few more scenes with them, like in Season 4, would be perfection.

The promo for Corazon looks interesting, so hopefully the rest of this season will be ok. But only time will tell.

disappointed said...

Give Reid something else to do than just make geographical profiles

Try and have Morgan be more carefree again. Recently its like he's been trying to be like Hotch.

Keep Prentiss on the team, she's like the only strong female on the show. Give her more scenes with Hotch; like I'm serious. What's with being paired up with Morgan for every single episode of Season 6. One or two, ok, but every single episode - this is getting ridiculous.

Either get rid of Seaver or stop making her sound like a first grader, or just simply get rid of her.

I can't believe I'm saying this but even Jordan Todd is better than Seaver. At least she had previous experience with the FBI and doesn't look like she's gonna cry every two seconds.

Magadelena said...

Anonymous, wow, I couldn't have said it better!!! I too am watching the reruns on ION, they are now finishing up with Revelations, and you are so RIGHT, between then and now, it is a completely different show. Everything you said was spot on! I seriously can't believe that it has evolved into this when it was like it was back then.

Ward said...

I think the shark was jumped, or at least circled around a few times, when they had Hotch and Rossi seek the "help" of a cadet to profile a case.

C'mon, this team has been profiling and cracking cases left and right, cases way more involved than the one in the "What Happens at Home" episode, but somehow this time the best minds in the FBI were stumped and needed a cadet consultant to tag along. In the end, it was all for nothing because the cadet consultant offered nothing that helped in creating a profile.

luvthejem said...

Reading all the comments here makes me somewhat relieved that I stopped watching after last season. It sounds like the writing has gotten even worse this season. It was bad enough that they turned Emily into Sybil last season. "Tune in to find out who Emily will be this week!" I, too, compare the shows from seasons two and three and wonder what happened? Then I recall that CBS fired half the writers after season four. Suddenly it all makes sense. The same people that made that brilliant decision are probably the same people that hired the new group. Cannon backstory was all ready troublesome, it went out the window in season five. It took cannon characterization with it. Now it sounds like realism has gone AWOL, as well. Good luck to those still tuning in. Hope it's not as big a disappointment as it sounds.

Tiecollector said...

I think the most important things have been said already. Just let me add my two cents, please.
It has always been the "brain" work that made CM so special, so different; mind instead of mindless action, character interaction and development instead of wannabe coolness. Season 6 lacks of that wonderful character interaction, and the development of the characters who have been so aptly portrayed throuought the seasons, seem to be stuck somewhere in CBS Nowhereland. There you have Morgan, a great, compassionate, sometimes too impulsive, but always reliable guy and you decide to turn him into a "hey, I'm ending my boss down some weird guilt-tripping lane" jerk. There you have Reid, a wonderful, unique, smart, tender-hearted, but strong character, and you just decide to..not..use..him..at..all.
There you had a strong female character, a sort of glue, a great presence, and you decided to get rid of her. Now you have a kid cadet either crying her heart out or making clever profiler comments she's obviously reading from one of Rossi's books she's hiding under the table, because having no training at all, she can't know these things by herself. There you have a great female role model, independant, strong, but compassionate, in every way as capable as her male colleagues, an essential asset to the team and a genuine pillar for her unit chef, and you'll probably decide to get rid of her as well.
Last not least, you have one of the most impressive TV characters, one of those personalities people relate to, not because he is all talk and no action, or too much action as it is the case with so many "heoroes" on today's TV shows, but because he was made from a mold they probably destroyed after he was released into the world. And what do you do? You decide to make an episode without him. And when asked, you explain "It just couldn't be helped." How's that? Somehing like "Your goldfish died the other night. It was an unknown goldfish desease. It just couldn't be helped. We'll buy you a new one."? Please, don't...
Ok, let me finish with: I love CM, always have, always will - as sdwally said, as long as TG is there, I will be, too. Please, go back to what has made CM so unique - you have all the ingredients, just stir them wisely.

Thanks for staying with me.

Anonymous said...

Just saw the promo for Corazon and it looks amazing. Finally some much needed Reid episode. I hope it doesn't disappoint. I was so excited to hear Morgan say "Reid, are you alright?". I was beginning to think he didn't care anymore.

I really hope that Seaver doesn't get more screen time than Reid. He hasn't been in much of season 5 and 6. We really need to see more of him. Hopefully we will and it's not just for the next episode.

Laura said...

I'm just going to throw this out there completely out of topic, but can we PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE get The Paley Center interview as a whole in the next DVD extras?

We barely get any behind the scenes, not photos, only 2 minutes interviews, now you won't even do the commentaries (something that I still can't believe, especially for the 100th episode), so can you find a way to make it available for the 15 million fans that don't live in LA?

Please?

Tomas said...

Sometimes I think people focus on the characters, which is rightfully understandable, but a big part of what makes the characters shine are the scripts. This rapid decline started with CM started with the firing of many of the shows writers. I am not writing this to denigrate the individuals that are writing now, but there was an obvious shift in the quality of the show beginning with when those writers were fired. For anyone who doubts this, please watch the episodes from the earlier seasons and compare them to now. I am an avid viewer of the reruns on ION TV and I have the DVD's of the previous seasons, trust me, there is a difference.

Man, the Anonymous writer that wrote "Criminal Minds is thisclose to jumping the shark. I'm sitting watching old reruns on ION and they just showed Profiler, Profiled, No Way Out and Revelations and OMG comparing the show then and now...its like its not even the same show. I don't understand how a show that gave us such rich, complex and compelling GUEST characters like Diana Reid and Nathan Harris can turn around give us Seaver as series regular!" hit it on the head, and this goes back to the writing and the characters are an off-shoot of the writing. You can't mask faulty writing by adding nonsensical characters that not only lack the realism to be on this show (I am not going to say much about the Seaver character because basically everything has been said; it is a dreadful character that highlights just how much CM has losts its way), but then you proceed to take out previously written strong characters and make them a tool to cater to this character. No, that is not the solution and it doesn't cover the huge whole that is there.

A thousand years could go by and I will never understand how anybody thought that firing the old CM writers was a good idea. It is sad that networks don't value the skill and work that go behind writing for a show such as CM.

christyzachman said...

There are some very good comments here and I am going to add mine. I love CM, my favorite character is Hotch portrayed by TG and I adore him. But I also enjoy the other characters, each gives a particular quality to the show.
I enjoy Emily Prentiss although she was put on the team to be a political pawn by Strauss. She had no field experience but worked at a desk job in the midwest for about ten years prior to coming to the BAU. Profiling was something she wanted to do and learned about even while taking the special courses at the academy for the position she was still not considered a high candidate for the unit. She has improved over the years but is still not as proficient as the others. But I do believe her greatest skills lie in her ability to speak many languages and the FBI should use her profiling skills that she as learned over the past years withe her language abilities. I think she would be better in a unit of profiling terrorists and foriegn people than in the BAU. Just my opinion in that I think she is capable of more.
I adore young Reid and look forward to the episode of Corazon. I am wondering if they are giving him the same problem that my cousin had. He began to have headaches and hallucinations in his late twenties and the doctors all thought possible schizo or something until they learned that he had a enzyme deficiency in his brain which caused the problems. He has been taking a small pill since then and has had a great job, wonderful wife and daughter in the past twenty years. I do hope that is all that is wrong with our Dr. Reid.
I am not going to discuss Morgan and Garcia at this time except to say that I do enjoy them but this season has been too much focus on them.
David Rossi is a great character in coming and bringing balance to the show of young vs. experienced. I enjoy his contributions to that.
The new agent Seiver is so new that it is hard to describe what she is and can bring to the table. I would like to state that it is not as if she is a nine-tten-year old college kid. She is not. I read about the academy and that to qualify you have to have a college degree, have worked three years in some professional field and be at least 23 yo but not older than 37. The academy takes twenty weeks of intense training and then there is a graduation and the cadets become agents and are given assignments. It is very likely that a new agent like her could join the BAU for further experience and Emily is her mentor while gaining that experience. New agents have mentors for the first two years while in their first assignments, which usually last three years. We should give her a chance.
There was no exceptions made for her but in for Reid to have gone to the academy exceptions would have to have been made.
We first saw her while she was taking the final test of the academy. Siever is no longer a cadet she is considered an special agent in the FBI. We will continue to see her make inocuous statements.

christyzachman said...
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christyzachman said...
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Adrienne said...

What can I say that hasn't already been said except to add my profound disappointment with the direction the show is going. In a way, the episodes from the older seasons that are played on ION TV as well as the marathons on A&E are a blessing and a curse. They are a blessing because one gets to see and enjoy some of CM's best work, a curse because you watch the episodes now and wonder what happened to the quality of the episodes of old. Eliminating strong characters, and adding weak ones, is not going to improve what is going on presently at CM. This writer and cast shake-up dance is a Hollywood ploy that has been used for years and it always crashes and burns. The foundation is the writing, but also, I think the characters, which of course emanate from the writing. I believe it speaks volume to the state of where CM is now that a character like Seaver is becoming a series regular. Prior to that character becoming a series regular, I was very worried about the decreasing quality of the show, but was hoping that the show could find its way back with the wonderful characters it still had left, Hotch, Rossi, Prentiss, Reid, Garcia, and Morgan. However, once I learned that the character of Seaver was being added as a regular, I abandoned all hope that the CM ship could get back on course. The type of characters that are added to a show tells you a lot about where the show is and where it is headed.

I could go on and on about this, but I think the points have been pretty much made by many of the comments.

Dreis said...

Some aspects of the show have been bothering me since the very beginning of the fifth season (yes, since the beginning of the fifth season, not the sixth).
Since season five started I felt the show's quality, its cleverness and subtlety have been lacking.

In that respect I completely agree with Thomas (previous poster) when he said that the show declined since CBS fired the writers.

The show isn't bad, but it's different in some aspects.

I still enjoy 'Criminal Minds' of course, if I didn't I wouldn't be here writing about it.

I don't have a problem with Seaver as a character.
But I have a big problem with her becoming a permanent member of the BAU team.

And I agree with those who said we can't compare Reid and Seaver.

Reid isn't simply smart, he's a sort of one in a billion genius (even if sometimes the writers don't take the time to show that fundamental side of the character on the show).
His intellectual accomplishments are nothing short of mind blowing.
When some fans try to downplay his merits and his value (by saying things like 'he's smart, so what ?') I don't think they realize how rare it truly is to meet someone with his abilities.

@christyzachman.
I'm very glad all your cousin had was enzyme deficiency.
But I hope there is something much more interesting (and emotional) in store for Reid following 'Corazon'. If in the end Reid just has to take a pill for everything to be alright again, I would be extremely disappointed.
We have all speculated a long time about his possible illness and it's supposed to be a 'doozy'.
I hope 'Corazon' is the start of a great and emotional storyline for Reid with plenty interactions from the team.

Carlos said...

I am starting to think that Criminal Minds is being written for younger and younger audiences who can't (or don't want to)grasp the psychological aspect of the show which was once its core. Not to say that young people are not intelligent, no doubt there are many, many intelligent young people out there, but it just seems that all we (viewers) are getting nowadays are caricatures of the characters that had more depth when the old writers were there (I have to add that I personally believe that getting rid of the previous writers was a big mistake-especially Wilder and Mundy). And like many others, I have a major problem with the addition of Seaver to the BAU team (even if it is housed as only a temporary situation while she finishes her training). Her characters presence is not warranted on the show, unless CBS and Criminal Minds are now trying to say that this trainee, cadet, junior agent, or whatever she will morph into, is going to bring depth to the show. Really, a trainee training is going to give the show depth????

Listen, what has and what will give the show depth is the wonderful way it used to peer into the psychological aspects of the unsubs behavior, added with the way the characters pooled their knowledge and experience together to get a profile going.

Anonymous said...

To show how unthrilled I have been with this season so far, I can't even remember the last new episode. I watch most of the reruns on ION numerous times, but have no desire to rewatch any of this season and most of last.
Can't get over the loss of JJ. It was a huge mistake. Angers me that Prentiss will be next. Seaver just doesn't fit.
Need more interaction between main characters, showing some love which older episodes had. Hardly any use of Reid's brilliance helping to solve the case. Need better writing.
I am not sure about what they will do with Reid. I hope I like it and it means more screen time for him.

christyzachman said...

To Dreis:

I agree with you and hope that the problem will be interesting and long term in its anxiety and angst but I also hope that it is not deadly or where he has to be institionalized. That is what they had planned to do for my cousin before discovering the true problem. It was a long term problem of discovering what was happening.

Anonymous said...

So I am reading some blogs of people who are at the CBS TCA session with Nina Tassler right now. Apparently she said that it WAS the spin-off that lead to discussions of reevaluating the original recipe formula and cutting Cook and Brewster. Interesting. And frustrating.

LaShawna said...

That's interesting about the spin off and its effect on Criminal Minds. So what were they thinking? We have this great show with intelligent characters and interesting stories. And over here we have this suckfest of a spinoff. I know, let's screw with the original until it sucks as bad as the spinoff so people hopefully won't notice how much of a suckfest the spinoff is! Great thinking people. You just pisssed off dedicated fans and made them that less likely to watch the spinoff. And considering the negative reaction to "The Fight" last season, that is just some dumb thinking.

Incredulous criminal minds ORIGINAL fan said...

"The development of the spinoff show and "evolution of the franchise" gave the network a chance to look at the team on the original show "and evolve some of the roles of the agents."
CBS head Nina Tassler

Anonymous said...

so the spin-off WAS the cause of all this executive meddling trouble after all? I think that when Kristen Vangness said that the decision to put her in the spin-off as well as the original had nothing to do with the firing of AJ Cook/reduction of Paget Brewster, I think she was lied to. Considering her sentiments about the controversy, I can imagine KV being FURIOUS that she basically signed a devil's agreement to enhance her role at the cost of her friends. Unless she already knew (or suspected) and was told to keep quiet in order to keep her job. Dirty tricks.

Makes you wonder that if all the CM people (cast, crew, and writers) hear about this, would they still want to stay on? Who knows?

Well, I guess the fan speculation has been confirmed as true and I think CBS has just prepared themselves a television bomb.

Anonymous said...

"The development of the spinoff show and "evolution of the franchise" gave the network a chance to look at the team on the original show "and evolve some of the roles of the agents."

So, by this statement, Criminal Minds was basically left alone by the network until the spin-off was in development, and the "brilliant" head honchos decided to put their hand into meddling a perfect program. Somehow, this all makes sense--the firing of the original writers and AJ Cook (and shaky status of PB) were all done so that the network could put forth how they think Criminal Minds should be. I think the new writers were selected by the network as suck-ups. Now I think I know why Ashley Seaver was signed up as a regular before her 3 episode arc episodes even aired--it's an executive decision, and the CM team probably had no choice but to accept it.

Maybe this is why the show isn't as good this season as other seasons--the network has a hand in this and because they didn't pay close attention to the show earlier, it's all becoming off. Just a theory.

Patty said...

At the risk of sounding like a broken record, I have to say that I agree with what has been stated thus far by many of the commenters. To start, the writing has definitely taken a dive since CBS fired a handful of the show's original writers (great move CBS). Then, the firing of AJ Cook and the reduction of Paget Brewster's appearance on the show (another killer move CBS). Now, to complete the worst moves ever, the introduction of the Seaver character. Is everyone at CBS out to lunch or what? How in the realm of the universe can anybody who is in their right mind think that any of these changes are doing one bit of good for this show?

Writing is the foundation of any show; if you have bad writing, you will produce bad work. Getting rid of AJ Cook and tinkering with Paget Brewster so much that now she doesn't even want to know about CBS says a lot to what CBS thinks about what each of these characters was bringing to the table, as well as to the contribution of the former writers. It says that they did not think that these strong female characters and the writers were worth anything. So, then when everything starts hitting the fan after they fired the writers, after they fired AJ, they try and get Paget back, which good for her she said bye bye to them although I will miss her character dearly. Now, to finish it all off, the creation of Seaver. Seriously, after JJ and Prentiss you serve up Seaver. Wow!

This character is all shades of off for this show. No, a cadet can't add anything of substance to this type of show unless you dumb down the show. No, I don't want to see Seaver learning the craft, nor do I want to sit through line after line of her asking questions about profiling when that screen time can be used to display what the experienced team members should be doing and that is profiling. You know, profiling, what the show is about! And, no, I definitely don't want to see some magical transformation of Seaver from just out of the academy to now being able to profile despite a pathetically low level of experience and knowledge in the field. As of 25 to life, she was still in the academy and going through remedial training. How in the world is that going to be of any good to the team? How is that not going to be a distraction? They have about what, 42, 44 minutes, to get the case, start profiling and identify the unsub. How much of that time is now going to be used in meaningless banter from Seaver, or some unrealistic transformation to profiler seemingly overnight?

But you know, Seaver is just a symptom of the bigger problem of the writing and the overall direction that this show is heading. Oh, and it wouldn't surprise me one bit if Nina Tassler said that the spin-off affected the insane decisions that are now happening at CM. This is just pathetic!

Emma said...

And what was the ONE thing fans asked when we first heard about this spin off that no one wants? Do not change one thing about the original!
Seriously, what part of that sentence was so hard to get? Do they want it in italian, or french, or german, or spanish? We could've translated.
And what kind of business decision is this when the fans are perfectly fine with the way a show is and still the network decides to make a mess out of?

See, I really didn't need that kind of statement by Nina Tassler. I don't need all the rage and disappointment to be brought back. Criminal minds is already testing my love and dedication as it is, thanks to the Seaver character, the too much Garcia factor, the constant overlook of Prentiss (her last season, writers) and the fact that Reid is never used anymore. Count that with the fact that continuity is a foreigner language to this show (Hotch is single dad now, even though he could barely make time for his kid when Haley was alive), and that frustrating Morgan storyline.

Anonymous said...

This is probably adding more fuel to the fire, but I found something very interesting and insultive.

There's recently an article that CBS is still backing Charlie Sheen and "Two and a Half Men" despite his atrocious tabloid behavior. From Tassler herself, "We have a high level of concern. How can we not?" The article also said that she " has given a great deal of thought to Sheen on a "human level," but the situation can't be viewed simplistically. The actor does his job reliably well on "Two and a Half Men," she said."

A reporter even pointed out the hypocrisy that someone in a similar line of work could get fired for and what's Tassler's response?

A reporter suggested a person in a different line of work would be fired for involvement in similar incidents like Sheen's. Tassler's response:

"What do you get fired for? Going to work and doing your job?"

Yeah, shilling the wrong-doer and leaving other decent shows with decent people (like Criminal Minds) in the dust. What are you trying to do, MURDER the show? What an insult, CBS. CBS, for shows like Criminal Minds.

Anonymous said...

"And when we had 'Suspect Behavior' we looked at sort of the evolution of the franchise, we looked at what this vision of the FBI, how they actually did their jobs, what were the nature of the characters being introduced in the sequel and that did give us an opportunity to reflect back on the desired structure of the team on 'Criminal Minds.'"

I wouldn't think I had enough words to express what this statement makes me feel, but here goes some:

You do not take a shows that has been working perfectly fine for 5 years, so much that you are making a franchise out of it and decides that the original winning formula needs changing. What you try to do is elevate the spinoff to the same level, you do not knock down the original.
What kind of sense is this?

And the desire structure of a profilers team is well present for the last 5 years in a show called criminal minds. Period. Watch it once in you life times and learn to appreciate what you have.

LaShawna said...

So how is kicking one highly professional woman off a team, possibly kicking another one off and bringing in an unqualified newbie agent fresh out of the Academy supposed to enhance the desired structure of this team? Do the executives have any idea how this team is supposed to function? Apparently not if they thought all these changes were a good idea. CSI: LV was one of the best crime shows for seven years running with the most stable cast. And then bam- in the course of one year, you lose three original cast members. And let's face it, many people lost the desire to watch the show after so much change. Even though Criminal Minds has previously been marked with cast changes, this is different. I fear the same thing will happen to Criminal Minds if the team dynamics and stories change too much.

Anonymous said...

In light of this new "revelation," I remembered Kristen Vangsness's thoughts about AJ Cook's firing and her promotion to the spin-off months ago:

Vangsness has now insisted that her new role on the Criminal Minds spinoff is not related to Cook's exit.

"I swear to God it has nothing to do with it," she told Entertainment Weekly. "It was a galvanising experience. You just fired my friend, my extremely talented, extremely necessary friend. It's awful.

"I knew that they had nothing to do with each other. It was a total shock to me. I mean, the whole AJ thing was awful."

Well, Kristen, for all your goodwill, I'm afraid you have been deceived by the network. It was because of the spin-off that led to AJ's firing, and by making you sign for the spin-off (in hopes of getting viewers) you were tricked into signing a devil's agreement. I am so sorry for you.

In a way, I feel sorry for the entire program, and everybody working on it. Criminal Minds, you have truly been screwed by the network. You work so hard, and you get stabbed in the back. Unfair.

Lori said...

I want so much to still love CM. I just don't. The writing is sub-par. It comes so easily to them to write episodes without Hotch, with minimal Reid. I was prepared to accept a new agent and I got Seaver instead. Now that she is a regular I don't even visit the sites as much.... it just makes me sad.
Rachel Nichols may be a fine actress, but they haven't given her jack to work with and I am ready to to let the show go before it totally crashes.

Mary Lynne said...

Congratulations CBS for continuing your tradition of totally running a show down to the ground by firing strong writers, cast members, and introducing ridiculous new characters that accomplish nothing but degrade the integrity of once stellar shows!

For your reference, please see all of the comments that touch on the downward spiral Criminal Minds is now headed on. Once again, thanks CBS!

babruin said...

Having a novice cadet so easily join the elite BAU is a slap in the face to the fans and to the continuity of the show. Not a good idea.
Like others have said, a revolving door of new writers gives us a disjointed view of the team with no real, emotional investments since we have lost inter-team relationships along the way.
Too much time is spent on new members and the unsubs so we feel distant from the "family" feel we once had. The plotlines have been very weak lately, too.

JessJe said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
JessJe said...

Witchcraft! What is going to affect Reid is pure witchcraft. According to the promo, is "a culture that uses fear and sacrifice", so it is possible that the interview is old he put a curse or something, to cause the Reid's worst fear becomes reality, you have to do with the equizofrenia.
And the solution is simple: shoot at the old fool, and we Reid for many years.
Ah, sorry for my terrible English, is that I am from Costa Rica and had to use a translator, thanks: D

Maria said...

After reading the wise words of Nina Tassler, I've just one thing to say:
If the core fan base of Criminal Minds has any say in all this mess, the spin-off has been killed, buried and forgotten before premiering thanks to the idiocy of the CBS suits.
Wonderful business management!
PS And I know what I'm talking about, other suits did something similarly idiotic this past Spring in my country and they're now reaping the consequences, that is, losing truckloads of advertisement money

gubegirl said...

If those who are quoting Nina Tassler's statements are correct, then let me just make an observation here:

What I think Ms. Tassler meant to say, and I use a term Reid and the team use regularly on the show:

"to DEVOLVE" (not evolve) "some of the roles of the agents" in reference to the decisions about the franchise, the spin-off and the letting go of AJ Cook and cutback of Paget...is this not a more apropos term?

Oh, my, don't we wish we conduct a recall here and replace these silly people with some that listened to the viewers and made a little more sense?

If this next new epi is not a well-written one, I am going to be truly bummed as we are SO-O-O ready for a well-written script that showcases the excellent acting skills of our favorite actors,ummm, like MGG. Sigh...I'm keeping my fingers crossed because I am not a quitter; I do not want to give up on what has become my favorite show of all-time. So I am hoping - against hope - for the best.

Anonymous said...

I just wanted to echo what so many, many others have so eloquently stated in this thread. This show slumped in quality after the firing of the old writers such as Andrew Wilder. I watch CM re-runs most days and the difference in quality of the S1-4 episodes and those from S5 and 6 is shocking. When I think of episodes like LDSK; Revelations; Elephant's Memory; Sex, Birth, Death and Normal - all such incredibly well written episodes and then I think of episodes like What Happens At Home, 25 to Life and that one set at Halloween that I can't even remember the name of now...well, it makes me sad to see the show decline as it has.

I am also not enjoying what's being done with the characters. Too much Garcia (I love her in her techy lair, not media liasioning etc); too much Morgan and Garcia stuff, their relationship and interactions just make me cringe these days; not enough interactions between other team members, what happened to the lovely scenes we used to get between Morgan and Reid (I miss their friendship) or Hotch and Reid; indeed what has happened to Morgan's character, I used to love him dearly but not so much anymore. And last but not least what are they doing with Reid? Or more precisely why aren't they doing anything with Reid anymore? Why are they wasting such a marvellous character.

I am, truth be told, just hanging in this year for Reid's secret. If Reid's secret turns out to be just a one episode affair and that's all the storyline he's going to be getting this year (like his solitary episode in the whole of S5)then I will be an extremely unhappy camper. Like many others here I am hoping against hope that Reid will be getting a good, emotional arc this year and that his storyline doesn't begin and end with Corazon. We were told his secret is a 'doozy'. If so it deserves an arc, not just an episode, to do it justice.

Kathleen said...

My, my, my.. so the truth finally comes out, straight from Nina Tassler's mouth. Basically, Criminal Minds was sacrificed so that a spin-off could be created. Sacrificed because there isn't any other term I can think off that would better describe what they have done to Criminal Minds by firing great writers and getting rid of AJ and Paget, whose characters were not only representative of strong and intelligent women, but who also blended in well with the team so as to create the wonderful chemistry that has been missing for a while. Last, and certainly least, the Seaver character. Yeah, good going Nina Tassler... argh!

Rochelle said...

I'm watching L.D.S.K on ION and its a reminder that CBS is systematically destroying everything about the show that made it great in the first place.

There is no Hotch-Reid or Morgan-Reid interaction anymore, Reid is seldom seen, Morgan has been turned into an insensitive jerk and Hotch has out of character more often than not (I don't know who that pod person was in the spin off, but that was NOT Hotch).

Seaver. God, there are no words in the English language to describe how horrific of a concept this character is. On NCIS when Caitlin was killed and they lost a strong female character- they got Ziva, ANOTHER strong female character. When you have an ensemble cast where you play the family angle, every character fills a "role". When you lose someone you aren't just replacing an actor on the cast, you are filling the role left in the family. When we lost Elle on CM, we gained Emily. Elle was the big sister of the team-protective (especially of Reid), outspoken, called people on their crap and too blunt for her own good. Emily came in and evolved into that role. You could take her on her own merit because the concept for the character was strong and they didn't compromise any of the other characters to sell us Prentiss. Same with Rossi- he fills Gideon's "role" without being a Gideon copy. JJ's role on the team was the motherly one, the "normal" one, the one who gave them hope that they could do this job and not take it home with them. They could have the relationship, the family and the job. She was an iron fist in a velvet glove. Seaver can't even BEGIN to fill that role as a character.

Let's completely forget that no way a wet behind the ears cadet would be assigned to the BAU (and don't EVEN try comparing her to Reid, dude has three doctorates, two bachelor degrees, an eidetic memory, reads 20,000 words a minute and was recruited by none other than Jason Gideon. He is the exception of all exceptions. Reid was special, they went through great pains to make sure we knew this from the first episode) Bottom line is Seaver brings nothing to the table they don't already have. Garcia is the tech goddess, Morgan's got bombs and obsessional crimes, Dave has connections, experience and serves as a guide and a watcher, Hotch is the leader and handles the SWAT and tactile situations, Reid is their "expert on everything" plus he does the Geographical profiles, Emily is great with interrogations and victimology. JJ handled the human element-victims families, relations with the LEO's, the press. What does Seaver bring to the table? A tragic backstory and a good time on the obstacle course?! WTF ever. This is CM, they ALL have tragic backstories! Hotch was abused, Morgan saw his father shot dead then he was molested, Garcia's parents were hit by a drunk driver, Reid was abandoned into the care of a mentally ill mother, - Seaver's serial killer daddy isn't impressing anyone! Using Emily to prop her isn't endearing her to me, its just highlighting all the reasons she's a fail as an agent and a character.

They need to scrap that god awful spin off and refocus on CM. Whomever was responsible for episodes like No Way Out,Sex Birth Death, Revelations, Profiler, Profiled, LDSK, Derailed, Lo-Fi...THOSE people they need to get back. They haven't had a really good episode on CM since 100...and the ONLY reason that was as good as it was is because Thomas Gibson gave an Emmy worthy performance.

If they don't get it together soon, I'm gonna stick to reruns and memories. I can't stand to see my show go down in flames like this.

Anonymous said...

OK........this picture of Reid, ALONE, is too sad......I hope finally we have a Reid episode worthy of this actors' amazing talent......and some true team interaction.....which is why, we as fans, fell in love with this show....how I wish we could have the original writers back......the Celt

Annie said...

I was going to comment here, but Rochelle (see above) wrote everything I was planning to write and 10 times more. Can't say it any better than she did. Solid on every single point!!!

Anonymous said...

I love Criminal Minds. It is one of the main shows I really look forward to each week. Having said that, in my opinion, I find the writing this season has not been very good. I also do not care for the new Seaver character. I find the character way too weepy and inexperienced to believe her to be part of an elite team of agents. I do not think the character adds anything to the show that it didn't have already. This is not the actress' fault. This is the way the character has been written and portrayed in the show. I really hated to see AJ Cook leave and think it was a mistake on cbs' part to give her the boot no matter how creative they state it was. I watched her on Law and Order SVU this week and she did a fantastic job. She is a really good actress and I think she will do well. Too bad the show let her go. I also hate to see Paget Brewster leave as well. One of the reasons I've always liked Criminal Minds was for its strong female leads. Not sure I will find it too interesting if they do away with most of them. As with anything in life, if it isn't broke don't try to fix it because that usually does more harm than good.

I do not understand the sloppiness of the writing when Criminal Minds has had some of the best writing for a show in the previous seasons. I am looking forward to the new episodes and hope things get better or close to the way the show use to be.

Heyla said...

I really, really hope Paget stays on the show.
That said, I won't hold it against her if she prefers to leave.

I'm extremely excited about 'Corazon'.
Just like the others, I hope this is the start of a nice and long storyline/arc for Reid, and not something that will be dealt with in a single episode.

Anonymous said...

Wow! Rochelle hit the nail on the head! Everything I wanted to say and more.

Shannon said...

I can't believe that we are at the point in CM history where we are discussing the fact that the show has introduced a cadet to the show. Wow, this is just tragic! In a way, I can't help but to laugh because when I think of the character Gideon, he wouldn't have even allowed Seaver to take a seat at the profiling table, let alone allow her in the building where the BAU is housed. Do you know why this is??? It is because the show had a high level of respect for the BAU team it created, a level of respect that shined through the storylines and through the expertise of each character. To the show's credit, it didn't lose that level of respect, credibility and expertise when Gideon and Elle left the show (each of these actors chose to leave the show). Prentiss and Rossi, each with their own set of experience and skills, blended into the team in a way that didn't cause people to bend and contort what they had previously seen on the show to account for their presence.

What is most troubling to me is that no one at CBS and Criminal Minds sees a problem with the direction the show is going. It is as if they are closing their eyes and ears off to the reality of how far off the path the show has traveled. Did they think that fans weren't going to notice that the writing has slipped, and to top if off, that they are inserting a cadet on the scene? As someone here already stated, it doesn't matter how many times Seaver has appeared already. Currently, she has been on twice, but she could be on a 100 times and the problem will still remain that this character is not a fit for the BAU team on Criminal Minds. The BAU is not newbie cadet training camp and to start writing it like it is, well, that is just sad considering what it represented before. But, as someone else stated here, Seaver is just a symptom of a larger problem. Indeed, Seaver is the total sum of what is wrong with CM now, that is why this character is now on the scene because the show is losing its edge, what made it unique and entertaining.

Annie said...

1) every show jumps a shark
2) in my opinion it happened a bit earlier for CM than it would naturally have happened, due to unwise Network decisions. i.e. letting AJ go (and Paget)
3) as a writer, I want to remind everyone: writing staffs always change, and being this far into a series (S6), it truly is more difficult to keep things fresh and new. So much has already been done. That's why you bring in new writers with new perspectives. That said, it's not impossible to keep up a certain level of excellence. Not S1-S4 level but near there, and 1-2 episode reaching that level should be possible. IMHO that hasn't been maintained. It's very very obvious to us long time fans.
4) Rachel Nichols is a good actress and she seems to be a sweet and wonderful person but the writers DROPPED THE BALL. period. Fans: PLEASE do not penalize Rachel for this. She is just an actor doing her job, doing what she was born to do. Dearest Ed, you may have had good "Clarice" intentions but it just wasn't executed well, in fact it was done poorly. We appreciate everything EVERYTHING you have given us as fans of a great show, but you have wins and you have losses. And we as fans are just sharing our response to this.
5) The show has enough charisma in its' current collective cast to carry on for one more season. But honestly, the Seaver character is a serious handicap. It completely destroyed the integrity of the show in my heart and mind. The writing of the epi where she was introduced was just... non-sensical is the only word I can come up with now. Not just in one instance but there were so many incongruous elements it was mind-boggling.
6) So far, Season 6 (besides the "introducing Rachel Seaver epi.) has really been all 'filler episodes' in my mind. Filler epis are ok here and there, at most 2 in a row, but um...
6) Thank you for letting me share my opinion. Just reiterating that we fans in the end are grateful for all the years of hard work, heart and effort of everyone involved with CM!

Annie said...

Oh, just addendum to my 'filler epis' comment. The "JJ" episode wasn't filler, that def. was very very carefully, with care and thought, written. In fact for some weird reason, I catalog S6E1 and S6E2 as S5 in my head. Go figure.

But all the episodes after "JJ" seem to blend in my head. I'm sure the writers needed to re-orient themselves as well. Taking out such a key character, it's understandable that it would take a few episodes to understand the new dynamics of the cast and characters. In fact, writing this I realize, we have to understand how damn hard it was that the writers had to re-orient after AJ left and then slide Seaver in.

Still should have been done more effectively, even despite Network pressures...

Becka said...

Annie, what you have written here is very nice and thoughtful, so forgive me if my reply seems rude.

Why is it that when a criticsm is made about the Seaver character (all valid in my book) there is this instant reaction of "don't attack Rachel Nichols?" I don't see instances here where people are attacking Rachel Nichols. Could that be the case in other arenas, sure, but from what I've read here, that is not the case. Unless Rachel Nichols has changed her name to Ashley Seaver, everything I've read here and elsewhere is directed straight at the Seaver character.

Is it fair to blame an actor for the unwise decisions that a network/creative team make? No, I say no, and it is unfortunate that some fans are casting their frustrations on Nichols the actress and not on Seaver the character. With that said, Nichols had to know that she was potentially walking into a landmine, and if she doesn't have one now, she had better develop a thick skin for however long she remains on the show. Of course, this statement is not excusing that type of behavior, just pointing out that it may occur and she has to learn to deal with it. Turning her into "poor Rachel Nichols," well, I'm sorry, as an actor, writer, dancer, basically anything in the creative field calls for one to deal with all sorts of scenarios, some flattering, others not so flattering.

Becka said...

Continued...

I would also like to express my disappointment with respect to the direction teh show is currently heading. I think I will let what many others have said here speak for me as I feel they've captured the essence of how I (and I suspect many others) am feeling with respect to CM lately.

Annie said...

To Becka- oh yeah, totally hear you. You are correct, I was referring not about people and comments on this post, but elsewhere.

Anonymous said...

I really can't wait for this episode to air. I've been waiting for a Reid episode for so long.

I admit the writing hasn't been great on the show lately but I'm not sure all the blame should go to the writers. I think the network keeps making changes and the writers have to work with those changes. I'm sure they also have certain guidelines to work with. I think the writing would be a lot stronger if they didn't have to work with all these conditions.

Cynthia said...

If there is one thing that CBS knows how to do well, that is choke the life out of a show. Nina Tassler and the other big wigs at CBS decided that in order to introduce a spin-off of CM it had to completely decimate the original CM. How was the original CM decimated? Well, let's start a couple of seasons back when they let go of many of the show's integral writers. Followed by, the firing of AJ Cook and reduction of Paget Brewster's character because they didn't fit into whatever "franchise" model Tassler and her cohorts are cooking up for CM and the spin-off (now Brewster is leaving).

If the Tassler "franchise" model is one that calls for dumbing down the original CM and inserting fairy-tale characters like Ashley Seaver, who, one day step out of the academy, the next day try to profile like she did in 25 to life, count me out Tassler, CBS, and Ed Bernero.

Anonymous said...

wasnt carozon supposed to be on LAST wed? what is taking soo long? season 6 could be a bit better, how they find the unsubs is confusing its almost like they are leaving a part out. i thought jack hotchner was gonna be in season 6 alot, he was only in 1 episode!

Audz said...

Though I'm a relatively new Criminal Minds fan, I've enjoyed most of season six so far. Actually my only complaint (aside from the casting debacle) is with the two episodes that have had Seaver in them.

She's such a Mary Sue I'm surprised her tears don't heal wounds.
/rant

Both episodes have had extremely uneven writing and the character of Seaver just feels so jammed into the show.

It's those things that have me most worried about "Corazon". Though I have to admit I'm a little extremely nervous about what's going to happen to Reid in the episode.

I think (and really hope) that the season will improve again once the three episode arc with Seaver is over.

Anonymous said...

Audz, the character of Seaver has been made a series regular; don't know why, but she has.

Oscar said...

So, let me get this straight. You take a fantastic show with great writers and great characters, turn around fire the writers and two of the show's core characters, to insert a non-credible character that adds nothing to the mix so that you can accomodate a spin-off that hasn't even aired and seems like is not going to do well...

Guess I'll be firing up my DVD player on Wednesday's from now on to watch the old seasons of Criminal Minds.

Lori said...

I agree that CBS is sticking a fork in CM and declaring it done well before its time. Propriety prevents me from posting what I really feel about CBLe$ Moonves and Nina Tassler (use your imagination from there).

Most of CM's viewers are females and not in the desired 18-whatever age range, so we, the loyal viewers get screwed by losing two integral and beloved characters in an effort to amp up the T&A and action to appeal to 18 year old boys. Gee, lose your loyal, time-slot winning viewership to market your show to the Tony Hawk loving, moto-cross crowd. Way to kill a show CBS!

Ed Bernero is a good show runner, but he is running two shows and has been given the green light from ABC to develop another new show. Honestly, he is spread too thin, and it is showing.

I realize there are new writers this season but have they ever seen an episode of CM? The writing is off.

I think their training should have been being handed the S1-5 DVDs and be told to watch them from the beginning, take notes on the characters and develop their own show "bible" because I fear the official CM "bible" has gone missing.

I think Rachel Nichols is probably a fine actress, but her character and her introduction to the BAU is totally out of character and she had no idea what she was doing. Talk about being unrealistic - I don't usually criticize the believability of certain aspects of the show, because I realize it is a TV show, not real life, but this even went beyond what I can tolerate.

Is this what Nina meant when she said:

"And when we had 'Suspect Behavior' we looked at sort of the evolution of the franchise, we looked at what this vision of the FBI, how they actually did their jobs, what were the nature of the characters being introduced in the sequel and that did give us an opportunity to reflect back on the desired structure of the team on 'Criminal Minds.'")

Total BS.

And on a completely girly note, Rachel, either pick a nice blonde color and keep your roots to a minimum or go back to brunette. I like you better as a brunette, not a brassy blonde.

Lori said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Amanda J. said...

You know who I have been missing? Elle! That's how bad the character of Seaver is.
Really Bernero? A rookie as a profiler?
I though that this was an elite group of professionals, but mostly because you have been saying that to us for the past 5 years.
Next thing we will be having a British, a sniper, a con man and a big cry baby allergic to bureaucracy.
Oh, and thanks for not putting a liaison in your new shiny team, rendering OUR more than qualify liaison unnecessary.
And lets face it, if Garcia, who is not capable of looking at a scary picture without a big strong man holding her hand can do that job, I guess ANYONE out there can too. You just proved CBS's point. Congrats.
And about Seaver, either treat her as a rookie or get rid of her and put someone there with actual experience.
Or, even better, try to undo all this mess, convince Paget to stay and get rid of Seaver.
And respect your old show, I know it's in its 6th season, but we love it, could be going for another 3, 4 years, don't give up on it now, and don't think that this won't hurt your new show.
I certainly won't be watching something that negates everything I've been told for the past 5 years, and because of it, my favorite show is hurting.
I'm really disappointed.
And my initial rage is back.
You hurt this PERFECT show and LIED to us about it.
Remember when Mandy up and left?
You think you are better than him now?

Anonymous said...

You know what really, really baffles me? That they pick Garcia to go to the spinoff.
No offense intended (but accepted), but if they were getting rid of JJ, and Emily and they are the same creative team, and they wanted the fans of the original to follow, why didn’t they just send JJ and Emily there? I could guaranteed that I WOULD WATCH THE SPINOFF if JJ or Emily were in it.
I would still H-A-T-E CBS for it, and resent Ed for forcing us, but I would watch it.
And isn’t that what you wanted, to make this a franchise? With the negative response the spinoff episode got, how did that now cross your minds?
Oh, I see, one had nothing to do with the other. Yeah, I guess that lying ship has sailed.

Anonymous said...

sdwally said and now I’m scared, was the absence of Thomas Gibson in 25 to life a tryout so CBS could see if the show would last without him?
I hope they don’t get another “genious” idea like they are used to and decide this show doesn’t need the lead actor anymore. I mean, they need to have a limit of bad ideas, right?
But if that was the case, I hope they are paying attention and realized that this team without Hotch is no longer a team, he is the heart and what keeps this team together. I can’t even express in words how dysfunctional the balance was without him. It didn’t feel like Criminal Minds. Someone had to hold Morgan back, especially in this season that he’s been acting so self righteous and entitled, and without Hotch there, we got the episode we did.
If you don’t believe me, compare Hotch character to Samuel Cooper, make a pro and con list so you can convince yourselves of who is the best team leader. And maybe learn what is missing in the spinoff, other than logic and realism, and good characters.

Laura

Joan said...

From twitter:
“rickdunkle
It is a Reid story for sure, but no worries, the entire cast is involved! “

What is that supposed to mean? That Reid can't have a story for himself? That they have to assure us the rest of the team is there? Of course the rest of the team is there, when haven't them ever been there during an episode focused on one particular character happened? 25 (shame) to life excluded.
And what are you writers afraid of? Is focus on Reid so bad nowadays?
Did you get 1000 letters of complaint, and that is why you never, ever write for Reid anymore, or was it just a memo from CBS? Or maybe you just don't know how to write for him anymore.
I'm really surprised that you need to make sure that we know that even though you bothered to realize that Matthew Gray Gubler is still employed in your show, even though Reid is going to have the first episode focused on him after 11 episodes of this season, not counting that he only had one focused on him last season, that it's not just about Reid.
I'm offended.

Tonya said...

Oh god, if by the entire cast involved Rick Dunkle means Seaver, I am going to throw my television out the window. This could have been an opportunity for some really good team interaction that we haven't seen in a long time, and by team, I mean Hotch, Reid, Morgan, Prentiss, Garcia, and Rossi. I don't want another "Hey guys, look at the new cast member" episode where time is taken away from credible characters to highlight some rookie who has no business being at the BAU in the first place.

Silvinha said...

Another Reid story in the middle of Prentiss arc???

No!!!

Jessica said...

It is so disappointing that after female characters such as JJ and Prentiss, you give us Seaver. JJ's strength was in her ability to sift through the many cases she was sent to pick the right ones for the team to take (a skill in and of itself). She was confident and great with the families, the press, local law enforcement, and of course with the team. Prentiss, what can I say about Prentiss, I love that character! She is the personification of strength, confidence and intelligence both at the BAU and out on the field. She is truly one of the best female characters ever written for a show. For the remainder of the time that she is there, please don't use Prentiss as some sort of patsy for people to accept Seaver. This would not be fair to the Prentiss character, nor will that strategy work.

Sorry, but Seaver doesn't have any of the qualities that JJ and Prentiss have and can't because these qualities come from the years of experience and knowledge that each character brought with them to the team. You had an opportunity to add a strong, experienced female character, but instead chose to add a female who is not qualified to be a member of the BAU team because she lacks the experience and knowledge to do so. That is truly a missed opportunity that I believe will negatively effect the show.

Anonymous said...

I've got to add my two cents worth to the Seaver situation. She there for training. How is she supposed to learn if she isn't sitting at the table? Do you think she'd learn more by doing the filing? She did not profile in 25 to Life - she asked questions - like some one that is trying to learn should do. All the rants about Seaver, no matter how every tries to say differently is directly related to AJ leaving. And alot of fans made up their minds about Seaver before she had one second of air time. That's not fair to her, to Rachel, the rest of the cast and crew.

Anonymous said...

While reading on the website TV Tropes, a fan-made wiki, I found that its Jumping the Shark Page gave an interesting definition:

"Jumping The Shark is the moment when an established show changes in a significant manner in an attempt to stay fresh. Ironically, that moment makes the viewers realize that the show has finally run out of ideas. It has reached its peak, it will never be the same again, and from now on it's all downhill."

The page also listed a set of possible clues that a show has reached its peak and is about to decline. When I was thinking about the current state of Criminal Minds, I was surprised by how many signs of JTS it has. Here they are:

Removal of popular character (JJ) and penning a Replacment Scrappy that every one hates (Ashley Seaver)—check.

Said Scrappy* given more spotlight and screentime, which sometimes exonerates him/her through character development, but more often turns him/her into The Wesley* (again, Ashley Seaver)-check.

The plot is resolved with one too many plot twists which are inconsistent with the overall narrative, poorly executed, or are just plain stupid, turning the audience away—check. with "25 to Life" as Exhibit A and the subplot between Morgan and Ellie Spicter.

An existing character evolves in a way that flattens rather than enriches him (Reid's complete failure in physical exertion tests), or which contradicts prior depictions of the character (Garcia's attempt to take over JJ's role and inconsistent information about siblings), effectively alienating fans—check.

The show's premise is radically altered, such as having the characters change careers or move to a new location (in this case, not enough profiling is done in recent episodes, with more focus on the unsub than the actual crime-solving)-check.

The show starts relying too much on "special guest stars" (in this case, guest star unsubs)—check

A show's Crowning Moment of Awesome—in the sense that the show never lives up to said moment again, despite trying—oh, definitely true, with Season Six not as good as the previous four and a half seasons.

*Note: A Scrappy is a character with a huge hatedom from the fanbase and a Wesley is a Scrappy character that is given so much attention by the writers that it detriments the show's quality.

I urge everyone who works on CM to take note of these troubling signs and try to reverse the course of decline and restore Criminal Minds to its former glory of past seasons. If the symptoms are not healed, CM could face cancellation in a year or two. Please, I implore you. Don't let CM tank.

Anonymous said...

While reading on the website TV Tropes, a fan-made wiki, I found that its Jumping the Shark Page gave an interesting definition:

"Jumping The Shark is the moment when an established show changes in a significant manner in an attempt to stay fresh. Ironically, that moment makes the viewers realize that the show has finally run out of ideas. It has reached its peak, it will never be the same again, and from now on it's all downhill."

The page also listed a set of possible clues that a show has reached its peak and declines. There are too many to list, so I'll just put a link here. http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/JumpingTheShark

When I was thinking about the current state of Criminal Minds, I was surprised by how many signs of JTS it has:

Removal of popular character (JJ) and penning a Replacment Scrappy that every one hates (Ashley Seaver)—check.

Said Scrappy* given more spotlight and screentime, which sometimes exonerates him/her through character development, but more often turns him/her into The Wesley* (again, Ashley Seaver)-check.

The plot is resolved with one too many plot twists which are inconsistent with the overall narrative, poorly executed, or are just plain stupid, turning the audience away—check. with "25 to Life" as Exhibit A and the subplot between Morgan and Ellie Spicter.

An existing character evolves in a way that flattens rather than enriches him (Reid's complete failure in physical exertion tests), or which contradicts prior depictions of the character (Garcia's attempt to take over JJ's role and inconsistent information about siblings), effectively alienating fans—check.

The show's premise is radically altered, such as having the characters change careers or move to a new location (in this case, not enough profiling is done in recent episodes, with more focus on the unsub than the actual crime-solving)-check.

The show starts relying too much on "special guest stars" (in this case, guest star unsubs)—check

A show's Crowning Moment of Awesome—in the sense that the show never lives up to said moment again, despite trying—oh, definitely true, with Season Six not as good as the previous four and a half seasons.

*Note; A Scrappy is a character with a huge hatedom from the fanbase and a Wesley is a Scrappy character that is given so much attention by the writers that it detriments the show's quality.

Anonymous said...

While reading on the website TV Tropes, a fan-made wiki, I found that its Jumping the Shark Page gave an interesting definition:

"Jumping The Shark is the moment when an established show changes in a significant manner in an attempt to stay fresh. Ironically, that moment makes the viewers realize that the show has finally run out of ideas. It has reached its peak, it will never be the same again, and from now on it's all downhill."

The page also listed a set of possible clues that a show has reached its peak and declines.

When I was thinking about the current state of Criminal Minds, I was surprised by how many signs of JTS it has:

Removal of popular character (JJ) and penning a Replacment Scrappy that every one hates (Ashley Seaver)—check.

Said Scrappy* given more spotlight and screentime, which sometimes exonerates him/her through character development, but more often turns him/her into The Wesley* (again, Ashley Seaver)-check.

The plot is resolved with one too many plot twists which are inconsistent with the overall narrative, poorly executed, or are just plain stupid, turning the audience away—check. with "25 to Life" as Exhibit A and the subplot between Morgan and Ellie Spicter.

An existing character evolves in a way that flattens rather than enriches him (Reid's complete failure in physical exertion tests), or which contradicts prior depictions of the character (Garcia's attempt to take over JJ's role and inconsistent information about siblings), effectively alienating fans—check.

The show's premise is radically altered, such as having the characters change careers or move to a new location (in this case, not enough profiling is done in recent episodes, with more focus on the unsub than the actual crime-solving)-check.

The show starts relying too much on "special guest stars" (in this case, guest star unsubs)—check

A show's Crowning Moment of Awesome—in the sense that the show never lives up to said moment again, despite trying—oh, definitely true, with Season Six not as good as the previous four and a half seasons.

*Note; A Scrappy is a character with a huge hatedom from the fanbase and a Wesley is a Scrappy character that is given so much attention by the writers that it detriments the show's quality.

Anonymous said...

Continued:

The show's premise is radically altered, such as having the characters change careers or move to a new location (in this case, not enough profiling is done in recent episodes, with more focus on the unsub than the actual crime-solving)-check.

The show starts relying too much on "special guest stars" (in this case, guest star unsubs)—check

A show's Crowning Moment of Awesome—in the sense that the show never lives up to said moment again, despite trying—oh, definitely true, with Season Six not as good as the previous four and a half seasons.

*Note; A Scrappy is a character with a huge hatedom from the fanbase and a Wesley is a Scrappy character that is given so much attention by the writers that it detriments the show's quality.

I urge that everyone (especially those who work on the show) heed these troubling signs and try to reverse the show's course from decline to restoration of former glory. Fix yourselves before it's too late.

enormousvdofan said...

This season has left a lot to be desired. No Thomas Gibson in an episode at all. Our two female lead actresses treated like garbage and the addition of a new character nobody wanted or needed or will ever like.

Lets not even talk about how sloppy the writing in most of the episodes has been.

Our cast deserves better than this and so do their fans.

Teresa said...

Um, the problem with what you just said Anonymous is that:

1. The BAU is not a training camp. If you go to the CBS website where they describe the nature of the team, you will get right away that the BAU is an elite team made up of people who are skilled in different ways. Don't believe me, go check it out yourself. As such, it is not an environment for training. Period, end of story.

2. I love how you assume that all of the "rants" about Seaver are related to AJ's firing. Have you actually read the criticism's of the character. Well, let me give you a little synopsis, the biggest "rant" as you would say as that her character is not believable for the environment that the show itself created (see point 1 if you need further clarification). In my opinion, that is a lame default position that tries to shame people into not voicing valid opinions about the Seaver character. However, go ahead believing that this all has to do about AJ if you wish.

3. For the love of God, this has nothing to do with Rachel Nichols herself. It has to do with the character of Ashley Seaver. When did those two morph into one?

The bottom line is that there are serious issues with that character. I too feel bad for the cast and the crew who have little to no say in the direction the show is headed thanks to Nina Tassler and the rest of the CBS crew.

Tracy said...

Here's a thought....maybe instead of pissing off the fans Mr. Dunkle could better spend his time fixing the writing of the episodes.

Reid all of a sudden can't carry his own storyline??

Prentiss has to share hers?

Hotch isn't even in an episode?

Holy crap. What are they smoking at the studio?

Teresa said...

Clarification**** My comment was for the first Anonymous, not the Anonymous talking about "jumping the shark."

gil and sara rule said...

Easy to blame Nina Tassler and she sure deserves our disgust but the writers are also not delivering and that concerns me.

I don't dislike the actress playing Seaver. I am sure she is a great lady and a fine actress. She needed a job and took one BUT ABC/CBS thinks that every time they switch out actors/actresses we as fans will just get used to the new character and love them is getting really old. I don't like the character. I never will. No matter how much they shove her down my throat.

Anonymous said...

That is the very essence of a Wesley--a Scrappy character given so much attention and adoration from the writers that the fans don't want wasted on him/her. Ashley Seaver is a perfect example.

alana said...

No JJ.
Too much baby Garcia.
Morgan acting out.
Little to no Hotch.
No Reid.
No Prentiss.
Little to no Rossi.
New unfitting character.
Seriously? What is this season about again? Secrets?
Nobody cares about big secrets. Especially when they are "so big" they get solved in one lousy episode.
We want realism.
We want complicated profiles.
We want them to sit around the table and talk and listen and understand each other, and once in a lifetime, disagree.
We want them to act like a family, even if it's a broken one.
We want them to have real and interesting story arcs.
We want them to have personal lives. And share them.
We want them to read, and listen to music, and talk, and take naps and play cards on the plane again.
We want them to kid around.
We want them to be mixed into different pairs.
We want Seven Seconds, and Mayhem, and L.D.S.K., The Fisher King, Revelations, Birthright, Tabula Rasa, Pleasure is My Business, Haunted, The Slave of Duty, The Uncanny Valley and JJ.

Carol said...

You know what's crazy, all of these changes that were made in order to "refresh" the show have accomplished nothing but make it worse. Of course, we now know that this was just another one of the lines that Tassler spewed out to cover up the fact that the writers and AJ Cook and Paget Brewster were let go to sync with the spin-off. I include Paget Brewster as being let go because they basically fired her then tried to get her back.

Now, we have alien-like models of of our favorite characters and a new character that is going to keep any hope of the show returning to the wonderful display of team profiling expertise at bay. Sorry, but Seaver siting there and asking a bunch of remedial questions, or worse yet, attempting to profile, is going to be maddening.

I don't know what else to say other than I am sad that this has happened to Criminal Minds.

Filmore said...

In response to the comments from anonymous who said "all" complaints about Seaver are directly related to AJ/JJ leaving, this comment is patently ridiculous and easy to contradict. People on this blog have gone through great pains to explain, reason, describe, analyze, dissect, compare, and document their reasons for questioning, disliking, and disparaging the Seaver character. And most of those reasons have nothing to do with AJ's firing. Sure, we miss AJ, but the reasons for the resistance to the Seaver character have been clearly laid out by many.

In your attempt to provide lame justification for the existence of the character, you place it in the simple, baseless context of AJ's departure. Yes, many would rather have the character of JJ back; but it's mainly because of the poorly conceived, poorly written, and questionable development of the Seaver character.

Why replace an enduring character with a novice whose only attribute is she's the child or a serial killer who looks like the character she's replacing.

The producers would have been better served if they had replaced JJ's character with the African American girl who played the child of a serial killer in Soul Mates. She was a lot spunkier, totally different from JJ, had real knowledge/experience with of her dad's serial-killing past, and she could have been written as joining the FBI after her experience with the BAU team.

It would have been a lot more interesting and relevant. And she could now be an agent instead of a cadet because TV time could have aged her to make her fit the team since she appeared in season 4.

But the writers, producer failed in their attempt to just get a new, blonde "toy" to play with.

And as far as Nina Tassler is concerned, I'm glad she finally spoke the truth on the subject of AJ and Paget. Whether her version was messy, muddled, unsophisticated or just plain silly, she said what most of us believed all along, that the spinoff had everything to do with AJ and Paget and CM being screwed.

It was everyone (like Ed, Kirsten, etc.) else who kept saying the spinoff had nothing to do with it.

We have waited since the summer for an official word from CBS, which was silent until Tassler spoke the other day. She said just what many of us suspected; and now some are mad at her for confirming our suspicions. I'm not.

I thank her for telling the truth, regardless of how muddled. And I too hope Paget returns.

As someone else said earlier, Paget's not going to find a more supportive, devoted group of fans like the CM fans who are willing to fight for her and the show.

She'd be foolish to walk away because her feelings were hurt. Most people can't afford to walk away from jobs because of hurt feelings or being disrespected by the boss. There are so many people who are unemployed and have been hunting for jobs for months, even years. They would kill to be in Paget's position. If only their employers had only hurt their feelings or disrespected them, they'd be upset, but still employed. Walking away may seem like the proud thing to do, but pride only gets you so far; and long-term unemployment ain't pretty. Get away from the emotional and open your eyes to the reality that most bosses aren't kind folk who make their employees feel good. And most people can't walk away even if they're being harassed. As most of us know, the workplace can be tough and unfair; but people spend their lifetimes in miserable environments. CBS maybe the pits; but the CM cast, crew and environment seem like an ideal place to be.

Anonymous said...

watching L.D.S.K the other day on A&E when I realised that I could watch the episodes from Season 2-5 A MILLION TIMES and I would never COMPLAIN. Yet, so far into Season 6, just watching some of the new episodes the FIRST time they're on PAINS me.
Needless to say, adding Seaver and cutting JJ was a mistake; and the overall quality of the show has evidently gone downhill for me.

Anonymous said...

At first I thought the spin off show just sucked dispite the wonderful Forest Whittaker being in it, Then came the addition of Garcia. I thought ok, they're trying to appease angry CM fans. Now you couldn't pay me to watch this suckfest.
Criminal Minds was one of my favorite programs, the only crime drama I bothered watching.
There is still time to repair this mess the network created. Do they have the balls to admit they made a huge mistake in tampering with the original formula, a nearly perfect cast and several amazing writers?

Stop sucking the lifeblood out of a hit to service a show that hasn't even proven itself yet.

Helen said...

Amen Anonymous! They are sucking the lifeblood out of Criminal Minds for a spinoff that hasn't even aired and by the looks of it isn't going to do well.

Can someone at CBS/ABC or Ed Bernero tell us exactly what needed to be "refreshed" because the cast (JJ, Prentiss, Hotch, Rossi, Reid, Morgan, Garcia) worked wonderfully well. The chemistry between those characters was terrific! Their collective experience and knowledge blended well to compliment the specialized nature of the BAU. The only thing that I saw that needed to be "refreshed" is the writing that started to slip when about 4 or 5 of the show's strongest writers were fired (still scratching my head over that one).

Now, what we have left, are beloved characters who with each episode seem to move further and further away from what made their characters unique. It is like they are now being written to fit this "refreshed" concept but in doing so they are being compromised. Plus, the fact that there is now a rookie on the team. Wow, come on, how is that going to move the foundation, or I guess what used to be the foundation, of this show ahead. That is, a group of elite, well- trained individuals collaborating and drawing from their collective years of experience to get into the unsubs mind.

I don't even want to imagine how the show is now going to twist the Seaver character to try and fit the elite and specialized dynamic. They are either going to have to get that character up to speed in an unusally and unrealistic pace, or it is going to be "Criminal Minds, Seaver in training." Never mind that the audience comes to the show expecting that the characters are fully ready to tackle profiles, not that they are now going to have to sift through training portions to see the expertise of the experienced team members at play.

I go over and over it in my brain and I just can't figure out how the show has gotten to this point.

Anonymous said...

I'm still utterly confused as to why the B.A.U, one of the world's most elite team of profilers with probably over 100 years of experience between them would need the help of a cadet.
I pretty sure that Seaver isn't the only cadet or person whose parent may have been a serial killer and so he/she decided to join the FBI.
And, just because of father being a serial killer, how is she suppose to help?
The B.A.U. has solved some of the hardest cases without her, but they can't handle this one case? This seems extremely unrealistic to me.
Also, how did she really help? All I remember is her crying, wailing about her dad always holding her hand, crying, stating how she never got a puppy,and then crying at least 20 more times.
At least if you add a new character, make her/him able to contribute something other then their tears; this a crime drama not a Lifetime movie.
For example, both Prentiss and Rossi had years of experience; Rossi started the B.A.U. for goodness sake!
I don't think I will ever be able to understand the reason behind her entrance. If this Seaver character were to leave, I, however, would understand that in a heartbeat.

Myra said...

Well, what the heck, I may as well give it a whirl and voice my frustration regarding the direction the show is heading. In first place, the writing has been off for quite some time now. So many others before me have said this, but I think it should be repeated over and over because it is the truth and the show is suffering because of it. Second, the introduction of the Seaver character. Ay, ay, ay.. this is beyond frustrating because not only is the writing slipping, now you are trying to force viewers to honestly stomach the idea that the BAU needs a cadet to crack a case. Even typing that, the BAU needs the help of a cadet to crack a case, is pure nonsense. Like the person before wrote, she didn't even do anything that contributed to the resolution of that case. All she did in her first episode was to go into a diatribe about her tragic childhood and the information about not having a dog that went nowhere. Then her second episode, ay, ay, ay.. they let her back into the team because she felt bad about how she did in the first case. Yes, she should have felt bad about the first case because she did nothing but almost get herself killed and caused others to potentially be hurt, but is that a reason to let her come back in??? As her second episode went on, she sat there seemingly knowing a lot about god knows what and sharing information that wasn't needed as this team could have shared that information anyway. Needless to say, I am not looking forward to who they will have her be in the Corazon episode and beyond.

A commenter here said it best, it doesn't matter that she has only be in two episodes so far, it could be a 100 episodes, the point is someone this junior should not be on a team like the BAU. She has no credibility and as such will eventually cause the other characters to lose credibility as they will now have to work themselves around this cadet. It is just way too over the top and asks viewers to cast away common sense to stretch their minds to believe that this is in anyway plausible in the realm that the BAU has been created around.

gubegirl said...

Well, after reading all your comments here, I must say that if the CBS powers-that-be and the CM producers and writers read this and do not get what we are trying to communicate to them, they never will. So, let's give it a rest for abit, esp since we have not seen a new epi for a month or so and maybe, just MAYBE we will see some shred of something that makes sense to us on Wednesday nite. We need to in order to continue to watch. PLEASE.

OK, now let's get on to more exciting subjects, like our boy, Reid: what is his problem? How long will it last? Is it something that can easily be explained away and treated? Who will care for him in the meanwhile?

OK, never mind, I see dozens of hands going up and as I have already stated last month, I WANT THAT JOB - I already have dibs:) Poor thing, someone needs to hold his poor aching head in their lap, stroke his forehead, plant little butterfly kisses all over that handsome face, and tell him it will all be OK. Maybe read to him softly, so that he can relax and rest, and stop thinking about voo-doo and serial killings. Of course, first I would sit with him in the hospital or clinic he seems to be at, and hold his hand while waiting for the doctor or his test results. Sigh...

So, let's talk about more pleasant things: what would YOU do to make our baby more comfortable? I wanna hear about something about the upcoming episode which is about REID, NOT SEAVER!

Anyone???

MKT said...

Yes, this is going to be repetitive but frankly, it seems this is necessary to get the attention of TPTB both at CBS and within CM itself.

CM used to be the show that I dropped my life for, waiting with baited breath to see what the writers had in store that week. It was my escape. Now, I watch between my fingers, cringing as week after week my beloved characters are fired (shame on you, CBS!), omitted entirely (what a load of crap that nothing could be done to include TG! I hope you learned your lesson since that was the worst episode ever!) or written ridiculously OOC (Morgan...). Oh yeah, and who can forget the ludicrous introduction of the new chick. Notice I didn't say "replacement"... For the record, like so many of my fellow CM fans, I dislike the character because the writing is unbelievable NOT, as others would like to believe, because we just don’t like new characters. Rookie with nothing special to offer is welcomed by experienced, elite profilers. Give me a break.

Yes, I am ranting and for that I make no apology. I care deeply about this show and its cast and right now it is going steadily downhill and if not stopped, will take the rest of the cast with it. Lose Hotch & I'm out. Period.

It is tragic about AJ, whose presence I miss, & what looks to be a Paget exit. I have to say I can't blame her. It is just so sad and unbelievable. There is already such a shortage of strong female characters and now you get rid of 2. CBS, you are just plain (*insert your choice here*).

CBS, Ed AND Writers: Listen to the fans... remember us? The people who attract the advertizers that make you the money?! Give Thomas Gibson a nice fat contract and ensure he sticks around. No Hotch, no CM, even more so with the loss of two wonderful ladies. (and I know that CSheen has some to spare if you’re short the cash...). Give us a return to superior writing. We are an intelligent audience and deserve quality, not sensationalism and gaping plot holes. Return our characters to themselves. Give us more Hotch, Reid, Rossi and less Morgan/Garcia (see, I’ve already given up on poor Emily). Perhaps most important, step up and admit your mistakes. This is not the fans fault. Our expectations may be high, but only because we have seen what has previously been possible. Fix it before it’s too late. Listen. Please!

MKT said...

Yes, this is going to be repetitive but frankly, it seems this is necessary to get the attention of TPTB both at CBS and within CM itself.
CM used to be the show that I dropped my life for, waiting with baited breath to see what the writers had in store that week. It was my escape. Now, I watch between my fingers, cringing as week after week my beloved characters are fired (shame on you, CBS!), omitted entirely (what a load of crap that nothing could be done to include TG! I hope you learned your lesson since that was the worst episode ever!) or written ridiculously OOC (Morgan...). Oh yeah, and who can forget the ludicrous introduction of the new chick. Notice I didn't say "replacement"... For the record, like so many of my fellow CM fans, I dislike the character because the writing is unbelievable NOT, as others would like to believe, because we just don’t like new characters. Rookie with nothing special to offer is welcomed by experienced, elite profilers. Give me a break.
Yes, I am ranting and for that I make no apology. I care deeply about this show and its cast and right now it is going steadily downhill and if not stopped, will take the rest of the cast with it. Lose Hotch & I'm out. Period. It is tragic about AJ, whose presence I miss, & what looks to be a Paget exit. I have to say I can't blame her. It is just so sad and unbelievable. There is already such a shortage of strong female characters and now you get rid of 2. CBS, you are just plain (*insert your choice here*). (cont'd)

Anonymous said...

I think that seaver as many people said its a clone of jj , i mean, she is blonde, reid likes her, etc.Its really creepy.
I am totally disagree with the fact that jj left criminal minds. And now prentiss is going! I can't believe that. I'll miss them a lot.
I like a lot matthew in there, so i will like to he had more than one episode focus on him. I use to like the kind of brother that was morgan to reid, so where is that?
I also like the hotch and prentiss. And the prentiss and reid.
In conclusion we all want JJ come back! and not to prentiss leaving criminal minds. Reid is the best. :)

I am sory if i had mistakes on the writing but i'm from Argentina, and i am in school,still learning english.

Robin said...

I am so glad that this blog is here because even if no one at CBS or CM reads it, I think that it is a good thing for CM fans to voice their opinions and concerns about the show. This will repeat what many have said, but as MKT said, it is important to repeat this over and over in the hopes that someone, anyone, at CBS and CM will take note. First things first, this is a show like for many others that I used to drop everything to make sure I got home to watch. I was always throughly entertained and many times kept on the edge of my seat. Nowadays, I literally cringe in anticipation of what will fly across the screen next. Without a doubt for me, season 6 has been the most inconsistent and poorly executed season thus far. Why? There are several reasons why starting with the writing, which if truth be told, started going downhill when the original writers were let go. Instead of the wonderfully rich psychological twists and turns we used to get, now it seems like it is all about the unsubs, the chase. The profiling has been thrown out with the baby and the bathwater. This has also been reflected in the characters themselves. It is as if these characters went through some type of time warp and the essence of what captured our imaginations with regard to these characters is tangled up in some loop. Today, all of the characters are mere shells of what they were before.

Now to the Seaver factor. I hardly know where to begin, except to agree that CM fans dislike of this character cannot be merely chalked up as missing JJ or not liking new characters. No, it is like most have already expressed here, it is the total lack of believability that this character brings to the show. A lack of believability that is further degrading the show. You really want us to believe that the BAU needs to have this cadet on the team, a cadet that brings nothing but a tragic back story with her. You want us to believe that the BAU has now transformed itself into some type of training camp. You want us to respect a character that has not come in having earned a spot on the team. This is just all too much and as intelligent viewers we deserve more respect and credit than this; and please don't try after all of this criticism to turn this character into some type of indispensible character by now giving her qualities that were never there in the first place so as to placate these concerns. I for one will see right threw that. She is a rookie, nothing more, nothing less.

I too am saddened at the firing of AJ Cook and the almost inevitable soon to be departure of Paget Brewster. I am literally at a loss for words to express my utter feeling of disdain at the fact that TPTB decided that the contributions that both of these characters made to the show were basically worth nothing. That is just shameful! Equally as shameful, is how you are now using Prentiss to try and prop up the Seaver character and how soon you will no doubt use Reid to further try and prop up the Seaver character. If a character is strong, you needn't have to use another character (or several other characters) to prop them up. They should be able to stand on their own, but the Seaver character can't do that on her own so you have resorted to using other characters to do that for her. That is truly pitiful and just highlights what a fail that character is for this show.

Bottom line, as viewers, we deserve believable characters and good and consistent writing. CM has produced this in the past and I hope it will get back to producing that in the future.

JamieC said...

I want Paget Brewster to stay.

I don't want the new guy cast, Sebastian Roche, to be Prentiss' love interest.

I only want Prentiss with Hotch.

I want more Hotch/Prentiss scenes, less Morgan, less Garcia, less Morgan/Garcia.

No more Morgan/Prentiss scenes, we are drowning in them.

Thank you Nina Tassler for finally telling the truth about what we all suspected, that the spinoff is the catalyst for screwing AJ, Paget and the original CM.

I never intended to watch the spinoff, now I definitely won't watch the spinoff.

We need more Hotch; there has been far too little of Thomas Gibson this season.

TG does need to be given a big fat multi-year contract to ensure he stays; because as many others have said, if Thomas Gibson goes, so do I.

The writing needs to be improved, badly.

You need to rethink the regular-status of Rachel Nichols. Nothing against the actress, but the character is ill-conceived.

Courtney said...

I want to say thank you to the blog administrators for posting all of those nice pics and press releases regarding the show. They are really great!

I too am hoping that by bringing up what I and many others are bringing up that someone at CBS and CM starts to take notice. As your viewing public, I think we deserve the consideration to be listened to and respected. With that, I will start where most have started and that is the writing. I know it seems like everyone has come out swinging against the writing, but it is just that there is a blaring difference between what was produced in earlier seasons than now. In every season there will be hits and misses, howeever, since the firing of the writers there have been more misses and very little to no hits. We are desperate to get back the type of writing that made us fall in love with CM. The type of writing that made us drop everything to rush home and watch a new episode, the type of writing that keeps us glued to watching reruns on ION and DVD's of past seasons. And our beloved characters, what happened to them, to their interactions. It seems like that is all but gone now, and when it does appear, it seems like it is an anemic version of what it used to be. Please don't replace the family and professional type interactions that worked so well between these characters with romances between any of them. This would not only veer the show into soap opera territory, but it would severely damage the family and professional interaction between these characters that attracted viewers in the first place.

Speaking of characters, the latest character addition, Ashley Seaver. This character is just a fail from the start because CM fans are so closely invested to the show that we know that a cadet in the BAU is not something that would fly, and we don't watch the show to be placated by things that we know would not fly. The lack of believability in this character is something that brings down the credibility of the unit that for years we have watched and respected as being the best and most elite. Adding this character not only makes us begin to question the uniqueness of this unit, but will also lead to the other characters having to somehow be "chopped" down in eliteness to accomodate the presence of this character on the scene. This is something that is inevitable due to the fact that this character is not fit to be on the team.

Well, I will end there. I appreciate the opportunity to share my views here and hope that they, along with the others, will be taken into consideration.

Aile said...

I don't feel entitled to tell Ed. Bernero and the rest of the crew what they should or shouldn't be doing.

Instead, I'm simply going to seize this opportunity to tell them what I liked about this season and what didn't work for me. And personally I think the sixth season is good so far.

I'll leave AJ and Paget's situation out of this, there is nothing Ed. Bernero and the rest of the crew can do about this. I'm sure they are even more hurt about the situation than we are.
Loosing AJ was regrettable and painful, and I miss JJ on the show.
I also really hope Paget decides to stay, the Criminal Minds fan in me doesn't want her to quit the show, it would be a painful blow. That's all I'll say on the subject.

So, I'll start with what didn't work for me this season :

1) Ashley Seaver is my main concern and it’s unrelated to JJ or Prentiss.
My main problem is Ashley’s inexperience (others have talked about it already).
I’ll just say I completely agree : we can't compare Ashley’s situation with Reid's, there's nothing comparable in their qualifications.
I would have preferred to see an older female who could bring her own professional experience.
Now, I'm afraid we're going to see Ashley participating in the profiles just like the others, which doesn't make sense.

2) Garcia presenting the cases. I don't think it suits her role on the team or her personality, I was glad she stopped doing this in the last episodes.

3) The end of "25 To Life" wasn't credible in my opinion. The way the team found out the real culprit seemed like a stretch, they didn't have anything solid to go by (it was more like a guess than anything else). Same thing with the way Morgan, along with Prentiss and Rossi, confronted him in his house. Not realistic once again. But I loved the rest of the case (even if I missed Hotch).

4) The action scenes with Hotch in "Devil's Night". It didn't add anything to the episode, except making Hotch look reckless.

Now, what I liked/loved about this season :

1) Morgan is not my favorite character, but I'm still glad you took the time to highlight his role (and I appreciated the Morgan/Ellie storyline).

2) A lot of cases were really interesting. In fact, I enjoyed most of them.

3) The classy sendoff you gave to JJ. It was bittersweet, the team was wounded, yet she left on a positive note. In the end she stayed strong and took the high road.
I also loved the case and how the team concentrated on the interrogation of the suspects.

4) The team interaction in "Compromising Position" was perfect.

5) Reid working the geographical profile in "Into the Woods". It was pure gold, thank you.

6) The scenes between Hotch and Jack in "Devil's Night".

7) The upcoming Reid storyline has me EXTREMELY enthusiast.
I would love for it to be a real storyline where Reid is seriously sick, and not just a "one episode" thing.
I'm relieved his secret is not a romance. That would have been a big letdown since I was hoping for something much more interesting for him.

So here is what I would love to see on the show :

1) A Reid storyline starting with "Corazon". I would love to see the team dealing with a sick team member whose life prognosis doesn't look good. I would love to see how they would deal with it.

2) A little more team interactions in general (I would absolutely love to see Hotch/Reid scenes).

3) Storylines that does NOT involve romance. I personally don't like those one bit.

4) I would like to see Hotch bonding more with the team and healing (without it being the result of a new romance). Maybe another scene with Jack would be nice if it was possible.

5) I would love to see Kevin Lynch again, I like his character and I hope he'll be in other episodes.

No matter what, thank you very much for taking the time to read this.

Anonymous said...

I agree with Aile, I think the writers and producers of CM are working with a lot of changes this year that was not their fault. I think CBS made the decisions and the production and writing teams are trying to make it work.

I agree that this season needs more team interaction. Definitely more Reid (seems to be coming up). Less Garcia - I like her best when she's her little technical zone. I don't mind if there is more Morgan but for some reason his stories are not working. The last episode's ending was too unrealistic especially for CM. I think that the cases themselves have been pretty strong this year.

About Seaver, is it just me or did they not say that she is completing her training through them. No one on the show so far has called her a profiler. I know that she just became a regular so that's probably where she's headed but I want to see how it plays out. So far, she is just a trainee. When Reid joined the team he was much younger than Seaver and from what I've gathered was a profiler. I think that Seaver is close to Reid's age now. I know it's still unrealistic but it is television. I think as long as they don't show her as a profiling expert and ease her into it, I may be able to somewhat embrace her character. I hope so.

I cannot wait for Wednesday's episode. For some reason reid-centric episodes are very interesting. Maybe it's because he such a complex character.

Yvonne said...

I think it is safe to assume that we all can appreciate how challenging it must be to write and produce a show like CM. This is why I believe that many of the people here are passionate about highlighting what they feel is a disturbing pattern with CM nowadays. Thus, when we sense that there is a steady decline in the writing of the show, it gets us worried because we don't want this to continue and ultimately ruin a show that we all love. I'm afraid that I have to agree with some of the commenters here who've said that there has been a noticeable decline in the writing since many of the original writers were fired. It pains me to say that, but the change is so obvious that I cannot help but to point it out and say that I hope that CM can get back to the writing that we have all become accustomed to. No season is going to be a 100%, not even 85%, but when that percentage continues to drop week by week, then it becomes troubling.

I miss the characters that made me first watch the show, it seems like they are different people now, totally foreign. Characters grow with time, yes, but it is like these characters have done a complete 360 and they have lost what first drew us to them. I hope that the characters can shine again. That being said, I think it is obvious that the void that JJ left is noticeable and sad. I know that what is done is done (I don't think Tassler will ever have the intelligence or grace to get AJ Cook back, what a shame), but I just wanted to put it out there that she is truly missed.

With regard to the character of Prentiss, I am just sick over the fact that in all probability this will be her last year on the show. Please, please, please write an exit story befitting that character, and please, please, please don't use her as a mechanism to get the Seaver character out there. One, it is waste of the time that Prentiss is still there, two, I think it is safe to say that many of the fans will see right past that tactic and it will not bode well. Like another commenter said, if a character is strong then there shouldn't be any need to have other characters prop them up. Ultimately, that is just lame.

I think all of the concerns about the Seaver character have been well stated so far, but I would also like to say that the critcisms of Seaver (at least for me and I think many others) has nothing to do with the AJ and soon to be Paget situation. Simply said, she is not qualified to be on the team and as such you are asking that week after week we suspend everything we have come to believe in with respect to this show to rationalize her entrance into the team. Sorry, but that just will not be possible simply because it is not possible. If the character were someone who came in with experience, someone deserving of a spot on the team, I believe people would have been more receptive to seeing how that character could collaborate with the team. Seaver simply can't do that. As someone already stated, she is a rookie, nothing more, nothing less.

Also, to the point of romantic relationships between team members. I beg of you, please don't go down that path. Going down this path has killed one a many shows. CM doesn't need to join the pack of crime drama's that turn into All My Children wih guns and badges.

Yvonne said...

continued...

Lastly, I don't want to start anything, but it has been said here before so I don't think I am starting anything. Please don't try and compare Reid's entrance into the team with Seaver's. No one here has said it better than Rochelle who wrote, "Let's completely forget that no way a wet behind the ears cadet would be assigned to the BAU (and don't EVEN try comparing her to Reid, dude has three doctorates, two bachelor degrees, an eidetic memory, reads 20,000 words a minute and was recruited by none other than Jason Gideon. He is the exception of all exceptions. Reid was special, they went through great pains to make sure we knew this from the first episode) Bottom line is Seaver brings nothing to the table they don't already have."

Rochelle, thank you for pointing this out because it is so true! Reid is the exception to all exceptions. It drives me mad when people try and compare the two. There is just no comparing Reid to Seaver, to even try is ridiculous.

Anonymous said...

With all the degradation of women and graphic violence, it would be nice to see it counterbalanced with a little love, romance and fun sometimes. Not enough to make it a soap or overly melodramatic; but some love in the lives of the agents will establish that they are more than just robots.

And I would love to see something between Hotch and Prentiss; they are perfectly matched and their characters ooze chemistry. They don’t have to be routinely groping each other on screen, but a romantic backdrop and loving looks will go a long way in softening up Hotch a little; and fulfilling Haley’s wish for him to show Jack how to love.

I agree with JamieC, please don’t manufacture a love interest with any new character, when Prentiss is so divinely matched with Hotch.

Angelica said...

No Yvonne, you are not starting anything. To try and compare Reid's entrance with Seaver's entrance into the BAU is preposterous!!!!

Um, Reid is a genius, Seaver is not. Reid was tapped to be on the team because Gideon wanted that brilliance to work for the team, which it has time and time again. Reid knows just about anything about everything, again, he is a genius and his genius aids in developing the profiles as well as the geographical profiles, plus in a couple of episodes he cracked mathematical codes and binary codes to get closer to the unsub; these are the reasons why an exception was made for him to be on the team and rightly so. He is a perfect addition for a unit like the BAU because they have to delve into the mind of the unsub and who better than a genius to help them do that.

Seaver, her dad is a serial killer and she did well on the obstacle course. Come on....

gubegirl said...

Angelica:

I think you misread what Yvonne was saying about the Reid/Seaver situation. You may want to go back and re-read it, GF.

She is simply agreeing with Rochelle and quotes her - she, too, feels that there is no comparison and the "wet behind the ears" trainee Seaver and that she does NOT belong in the BAU with Reid who is not only a genius but has all the attributes Rochelle cited. (Plus he has an IQ of something like 187!)

Have a good day!

Angelica said...

@o gubegirl, I was agreeing with Yvonne and supporting that she was indeed not starting anything because what she and Rochelle pointed out about Reid entrance and Seaver's entrance is true. Maybe it didn't sound like that because I am just incredibly frustrated at the fact that they (writers) are trying to paint the exceptions that were made for Reid in the same light as the ones that they will make for Seaver and nothing can be further than the truth. Bottom line, Seaver is not qualified to be on the team no matter how they try and diminish the other characters qualifications and exceptions (exceptions in the case of Reid) to do so.

gubegirl said...

Angelica:

We're all on the same page!

Bring on that new epi and let's watch our team and pray that it is the quality we are so missing.

Hey, just getting a Reid-centric epi is a good thing...

Angelica said...

@ gubegirl Yes, I am really, really, really hoping that this episode will be good. Reid has been off the scene for far too long! I hope they get back to showcasing his brilliance again and that the rest of the team (Hotch, Morgan, Garcia, Rossi, and Prentiss) will have some great interaction with him and with each other.

Giselle said...

Here are my thoughts:

1. Not trying to beat up on the writers, but it is true that the writing has slipped and as fans we would like to see the quality get back to where it once was, please.

2. We would like whatever pods have taken over the characters to be released so that we can get the characters we know and love back.

3. Assuming that Paget is leaving the show, which all signs point to is the case, please write an exit story that will highlight the contribution that her character has made to the show. The Prentiss character is an amazing, strong female character that should be written in that light; not as a mentor for Seaver.

4. Please do not try and cast Seaver's arrival on the team as par for the course because it is not. Not trying to mean, but she is a rookie with no exceptional qualities like Reid that would warrant her a pass to be on the team (if that were the case, it would have been revealed in her first episode, if not the second, and it wasn't). She has a serial killing father and achieved high marks on the obstacle course and that is all she wrote. So, please don't try and conjour up some type of special something that only she has that the team can't live without because again, that is not the case and nobody is going to fall for it. I know that will be the temptation now that many people have complained that she is not fit to be on the team, but please don't go that route as this will prove to be very frustrating and completely not credible. Her character simply isn't a fit for the show because she doesn't have the experience or cred to be on the team, that is just the way that it is.

5. Please no inter-team relationships. The team should function as they always have, as a family and family doesn't, well, you know, with family.

Alana said...

I really think that the only way I could buy the character of Ashely Seaver being allowed to join the team, is if Rossi had taken a personal interest in her and decided to do with her what Gideon (I'm assuming) did to Reid.
And the fact that she came back in the episode Hotch was away, could've fitted perfectly with this.
"Hotch is not here, so I'll make this decision and she will prove herself with this one case and when he is back, he will see I was right."
And I can't buy Morgan agreeing with a rookie joining the team.
And what a missed opportunity to bring up the fact that this happened to Reid. For once I'd like to see someone coming to Reid for help. Like ask the once too young and with no experience guy what is like to be like that in a team like this.
And Emily is going to mentor Seaver? Seriously writers, I'm offended. This new character is supposed to take Emily's spot and now you want to make it look like she is giving her blessing?
Offensive. You won't get a new liaison because you don't want anyone taking JJ's place (even though the fact that now Garcia can do her job made her position obsolete), but now our beloved character has to serve as an anchor to the new and shiny one taking her place?

Veronica said...

That is an interesting take Alana, but I think the issue may be that at the end of "What happens at Home," when Seaver was bawling her eyes out, Rossi was trying to console her because he felt bad about her conflicted feelings toward her serial killer father. With Gideon and Reid, it was purely an interest and fascination with Reid's intellect and what that could do for Reid, the team, and him. Of course, Gideon also took a personal interest in Reid, which was nice to see, but his first and foremost interest with Reid was with Reid's future in the FBI/BAU. He always made it a point to make sure that people addressed Reid and Dr. Reid so that Reid could get the respect he deserved for his incredible intellect. There is no such parallel with Seaver.

In the 25 to life episode, Rossi was more like "whatever Hotch says go" as far as giving the permission for Seaver to complete her remedial training at the BAU. Gideon straight up brought Reid to the team, confident that Reid was going to get in there and work it out, and believe me, the Gideon character was no joke so you knew he wasn't playing any games :)Basically, no matter what his age at the time, Reid was and is the man! His intellect is above all else, it is fierce and worthy of a spot on the team.

Maybe in a future episode they may Rossi and/or Hotch show more interest, but this, like others have said, will seem fake and forced because it will be uncharacteristic, especially for Hotch. But I am sure they will write it this way whether it is characteristic or not because they are trying to push her onto the team. Also, I think you made a good point about the writers using Emily to mentor Seaver as a way to give her blessing of Seaver so that the audience will think that her entry onto the team is legit. Like you said, it is offensive because they are bending and twisting every angle possible to get a character on that isn't qualified to be on. I know that has been said to death, but it is the truth and it is sad that they are using Prentiss to push this character in.

Anonymous said...

What I don't get is how Elle, who had years of experience as a detective in NY, added with a few years at the FBI, was sweating bullets because she didn't think she was going to get on the team despite having experience. Then, there is Prentiss who came in with 10 years of experience at the FBI and basically sealed the deal as far as her having the experience and credibility to be on the team her 2nd episode had to bust her rear to prove she had what it took to be on the team. And then you have Seaver, who because she felt bad about her lousy performance her first time out with the BAU because she doesn't have the experience to be there in the first place, gets to come back in and have a mentor no less to what, appease her feelings. WEAK!

Anonymous said...

I'm just trying to be hopefull for the future. This next episode looks great. Reid definitely needs aan episode. I'm not why they haven't given him one in such a long time because episodes about him have always been one of the best. I really hope this episode doesn't disappoint.

Anonymous said...

I love to read the comments of the fans and there is a lot of negativity about Seaver and how she isn't qualified to be a part of the unit. We don't know that. In doing research on what the FBI does, a person must have three years of work experience before they can enter the academy. Morgan was a cop, Hotch was a prosecutor, Prentiss worked in an office, Reid was probably a teachers assistant which is where he met Gideon who used his influence to get the boy, Who impressed him greatly. into the academy beforer his twenty-third birthday. We don't know what Seaver did before joining the academy. But there does need to be something more for her to impress Rossi enough to use his influence to get her into the unit. Let's see what they come up with.
I do agree that the writing has been a little off this season. I think the writers have forgotten that these are not police officers who act before they think. These are people who think and then act or in actuality send the local police officers in to chase the perpetrators. When the FBI goes in, it is with the locals not alone unless it is a FBI case alone. Our team looks at behavior not at running after the criminals. They search, discuss and share information before they go out after the unsubs. It is why I like them better than watching police or cop shows. This is not a cop show.

Karen said...

I'm looking forward to the upcoming episode and am really hoping that it is good. However, if it ends up not being good, if it ends up disappointing, then I am just going to try and hold on to see the final Prentiss episodes. I'm still hoping that Paget will stay, but the writing is all but written on the wall that she is out of there, and I don't blame her for leaving after the way CBS treated her.

Lately, I have given this show the benefit of the doubt that the next week will be better than the last week, and I have been let done each time. The most recent let down was the addition of the Seaver character as a series regular, which till this day boggles my mind.

I still have love for this show and for the original characters, but there just comes a time when a show starts falling off a cliff, and I am afraid that if Criminal Minds continues on the path it is presently going, they will soon fall off that cliff.

reidfanatic said...

I won't go through the same things that everyone else has said about the quality of the show and the writing going downhill. That is evident.

I'm glad that we are finally going to get an episode with a little more Reid in it. He was so underused last season but that was more understandable due to his injury. I don't know what their excuse is this season. I'm just wondering if the new writers simply don't have the feeling for the uniqueness of the character and don't know what to do with him. Reid never seems to come up with just that one little tidbit of information anymore, such as knowing about the psychodrama project at the California jail, that takes the team in the right direction. He used to do it all the time.

I agree that the addition of Seaver makes no sense whatsoever, as Hotch told Prentiss, not anyone who wants to can come into the BAU and give it a whirl.

Here in Canada CM is being moved in February from the main CTV network to the secondary CTV-A network, to make room for Suspect Behavior on Wednesday nights. This, I fear, is not a good sign, but now the show is not what it used to be.

Olivia said...

I have resisted commenting as I wanted to wait until tomorrow's episode aired, but I couldn't help myself after the last Anonymous commenters post (the one above Karen's comment). With regard to there being a lot of negativity about this Seaver character, yes, there is a lot of negativity and rightfully so. I sat threw the first two episodes that Seaver was in again and believe me that was painful to do. The first episode she was in is not even worth discussing, it was just a jumbled mess. She did nothing but go on about her serial killing dad and cry. There was nothing useful in her presence there. The second episode, she went to a crime scene, threw a couple of questions, and provided information that any of the profilers could have given. Plus, in her first episode, she said to Hotch and Rossi, "I doubt that you have called me her to discuss my academy scores." At which point, they basically laid out why they wanted her there, and that was because she was the daughter of a serial killer. Not because she was studying psychology, or is some sort of genius, or is a psychic. Nope, it is because she is the daughter of a serial killer and they wanted to discuss how it was for her growing up in that household. Period.

And again with the trying to compare Seaver with Reid. Anonymous, you wrote "Reid was probably a teachers assistant," um, Reid was way and is way more than that he is an uber genius!!! Many people already have broken down Reid's credentials. Bottom line, there is no comparison, between him and Seaver, end of story! Seaver is just a run of the mill cadet in the academy; the only thing special about her that was brought out in the first episode is that she did well on the obstacle course, that's it. So what, now we are going to wait until the season unfolds to find out about all of Seaver's hidden talents, give me a break. Look, there is a reason why this team is called elite. Yes, Hotch was a Federal prosector before joining the team, not sure what he was after that, but the man has skills that were most definitely honed through another avenue, not just jumping into the BAU (I recall him asking JJ if she wanted to take the profiling classes at one point, and she said no). also, in being a prosecutor, you are exposed to a lot of different types of individuals, MO's, etc. Morgan being a cop, yes, that is very useful to segway into profiling because you deal a lot with criminals, victims, victimology, patterns of crime, etc. Prentiss worked in a field office, but she obviously did something before that she hasn't revealed because I remember as far back as the 2nd season when JJ asked how it is that Prentiss could act so cooly under such circumstances being that she came out of a field office; Hotch also asked the same thing (Revelations episode). Prentiss reacted a little oddly and said that maybe she was good at compartmentalizing things; now this arc which hints at the fact that Prentiss worked in interpol before. Not only that, she was to well versed in behavorial analysis when she first got there for there not to be something else, which is now going to be revealed. More important, Prentiss didn't come in sobbing all the way through her first episode. She came in as an intelligent, strong, put together woman who was able to process and digest crime scenes as well as collaborate with and contribute to the team.

No doubt that the writers are going to try and cook up some fantastic resume for Seaver to have people fall for the idea that she should be there. The problem is "What happens at home" and "25 to life" show otherwise.

Note to CBS and the writers, nobody is going to fall for the eventually transformation of Seaver into prodigy profiler.

Casey said...

If everyone quit a job because their supervisors hurt their feelings or disrespected them, you probably wouldn't have too many people still working.

Most people can't afford to walk away from a job because of pride or emotion. Many people work under trying conditions all their lives and suffer through.

With the unemployment rate as high as it is, many people would give their first born to have a job, much less be able to give one up because their feelings are hurt by the boss.

I hope if Paget does decide to walk away out of pride or emotion, she recognizes that the Nina Tasslers of the world are everywhere, especially in the entertainment industry. Paget should seriously think of the other intangibles like the rest of the cast, the crew and the fans before allowing her emotions to rule her head. CM has the best fans, cast and crew in the industry; and we want her to stay.

If she gets a lucrative deal that promises her top billing and close to Charlie Sheen money, then I would understand her leaving. Anything short of that, doesn't make sense to me.

Emotion and pride are never good reasons.

Patricia said...

What happens when the writing begins to slip is that the characters start losing the uniqueness and strength that they once had, then we get things like people trying to compare how Reid entered the BAU with the way that they are having Seaver come in. No way would this be happening had the writing been mantained to the level that it once was because it was crystal clear before that Reid is, like Rochelle wrote "the exception to all exceptions."

It is truly laughable and sad that a comparison is being made between the exceptions made for Reid and those made for Seaver. Wow...

Audz said...

Okay... here are another $.02 from me.

The only already-aired episode of Criminal Minds I haven't seen is the spin-off pilot. The husband and I tried... gods know we tried. But I found it completely unwatchable.
Safe to say we won't be bothering with the spin-off.

I have a weak stomach. I don't deal with violence. The thing that drew me into the show despite the fact it's the goriest thing I've ever watched was the amazingly smart but realistic BAU team. So when CBS started screwing with that basic foundation of course the show has suffered immensely.

Getting rid of Seaver would be a really good step back in the correct direction.

Turn her into an unsub and lock her up never to be mentioned again. ;)

I fancy myself a writer. So I kind of hoped that it was just my oversensitive writer's sense annoyed by the writing in the last several episodes. So it's really kind of depressing to read that *everyone* has noticed the decline. The ending of "25 to life" almost seemed like SNL's old "First Draft Theater".

One final thing and I'll quit harping.

Criminal Minds is the only show where I have ever realized when the credits come on that I've been watching in total open-mouthed amazement. And while I haven't experienced that with the more recent episodes, that potential is still there.

I will still be glued to my television tomorrow night squeaking to my husband about how worried for Reid I am until the very second that the show starts. But CBS has GOT to stop trying to fix what was never broken to begin with!!!

Josephine said...

Being a cop is actually a great asset to have in being a profiler because police officers deal with all types of criminals and what type of criminal is most likely to committ a certain type of crime in a certain area (victimology, stressors, etc). Also, they were used to seeing grizzly scenes and could process what they were seeing and what they had to do to start a case.

The fact that both Morgan and Elle were cops before joining the BAU were definitely assets. Plus, they had also had time in with the FBI so I don't think it is correct to say that those are things that would work in Seaver's favor for joining the team straight out of the academy because, I guess it is trying to be hinted that Morgan and Elle were not profilers before joining. Hotch being a prosecutor before joining is also an credit because as a prosecutor you are exposed to a lot of different types of cases, scenarios, etc. He and Rossi started the BAU, so there may be more to Hotch's background than being a prosecutor. At some point, there has to be some psych/profiling classes involved, but the key is that, unlike Seaver, these characters were established as professionals in their respective fields prior to joining the BAU.

I think it is correct to say that once the writing has diminished we get situations where a character like Seaver joining the BAU is no bigdeal, when in actuality it is because she is severely underqualified for a spot on this team. And yes, comparing the way Reid was allowed into the FBI/BAU (his exceptions) versus Seaver is laughable and sad. But again, this goes back to the writing- keeping it consistent and strong.

Yesenia said...

Reid is one of my favorite characters on the show so I am beyond thrilled that he is finally getting some air time. Reid has been MIA from the show for a long time now and I don't know why. I hope they get back to showing how outstanding Reid's mind is and unlike Seaver, he always deserved a spot on the BAU because his intelligence is one in a million. Yup, his genius status puts him above a random cadet jumping around on the obstacle course.

In the past, there have been so many instances of how amazing his intelligence really is, like when he solved that puzzle in his head in "Unfinished Business," or when he figured out what name the Reaper was hiding under in "100" and many, many more. He may have been young in age when he started the BAU, but that intellect was way beyond all of the ages put together of everyone on the team. He came in and started conributing from the get go. Gideon was no fool in bringing Reid in the BAU, and his resume, man, we won't even get into that because that speaks for itself. Anybody would have tapped into that brilliance.

Seaver is not extraordinary like Reid, she is just another warm body at the FBI and unlike Reid can be replaced in a minute because there is nothing experience or skill wise that sets her apart from Reid or anyone else on the team. Writers, you have been slipping for a minute and that is clear by not only the recent episodes, but also by how people are just quickly dismissing what makes these characters and Unit distinct.

On another note, I am sad that Paget is most likely leaving (Prentiss is one of my favorite characters on the show as well). I understand where she is coming from though; maybe there is a little pride involved, but at the end of the day you can't have people disrespect you over and over again. Paget is a talented actress and I am sure she is going to do well.

Ingrid said...

The Corazon clip that was just posted looks good, right up until they pan on Ashley Seaver saying "So this all could have been religious," oh god!! I loved how Reid basically shot down her little conclusion :)

Yesenia, right there with everything you said. There is no comparing anyone to Reid!

Anonymous said...

To all those who have said that we should wait around to see what Seaver has to bring to the table. Well, the short clip of tomorrow's episode that was just posted I think gives us a preview of what that is... nothing, nothing but basic questions that take up screen time.

The BAU is not a training camp. Send Seaver to some profiling classes and call it a day for that character on the show.

nostalgia said...

There are a few questions that haunt me while I rewatch the past seasons and the current

1) Why did Emily have to prove herself and have her every move scrutinized by Hotch. The same goes for Jordan Todd; both were women were years of experience with the FBI and policing. Yet, Cadet Seaver comes with her only experience being a race course time and family matters, yet all she gets is a "i am disappointed in you" from Hotch. Seriously?! Jordan was like yelled out, and the way he pratically gave Emily the cold shoulder made me cry for her. So why is Seaver, A CADET, getting off the hook so easily.

2) What's with having Reid do all the geographical profiles alone while Morgan and Prentiss always been paired up. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought that Criminal Minds was an ensemble. What happened to Hotch/Emily, Reid/Emily, Reid/Morgan interaction...Like a previous comment mentioned, "we are drowning in Morgan/prentiss pairings". It's seriously becoming annoying and boring. It would really be refreshing to see Emily paired up more with Hotch as they do have great chemistry. It doesn't have to be romantic, but they just work soooooo well together. I was watching the interrogation scenes they did together and I was literally blown away by how amazing they bounced ideas of each other and WOAH, it was awesome, and I feel that Season 6 needs to see more of that awesomeness. Also, Reid has so much to offer, but if usually left alone by himself doing a geographical profile. The boy can read twenty thousands words a minute and has an IQ of 187! And same goes for Emily Prentiss, I would really love to see more of her linguistic abilities, like speaking FRENCH. :)

So far the season has been alright, but I'm hoping it will become better as time progresses, and hopefully it can be what it was like in S4 and S5, those episodes were fabulous.

here's hoping for said...

remember when haley told hotch to promise her to show jack love?
what better way than with someone who understands his job, is fantastic with children, is compassionate, has already met jack? certainly not an OC... but who other than our mesmerizing EMILY PRENTISS!

She doesn't need a "new love interest". In fact, she's never had one, but if she were, Hotch is perfect for her. All throughout S4 and S5 there was a lot of context and chemistry between the two characters. then in s6, its like the writers forgot that the two characters even exist on the same show. hotch is always with rossi while morgan and prentiss have become inseparable.

Not asking for makeout scenes or intense romance. just maybe a few more smiles that bring out both Hotch and Emily's breathtaking dimples, and maybe some minor exchanges, conversations and better yet, maybe they can be paired up again as in s4 before morgan seemed to possess her.

excited yet scared of what Seaver may say. said...

I totally agree with what Ingrid said...

"The Corazon clip that was just posted looks good, right up until they pan on Ashley Seaver saying "So this all could have been religious," oh god!! I loved how Reid basically shot down her little conclusion :)"

For me, honestly I forgot all about Seaver until the camera cut to her and BAM she was all up in my face talking about "so this all could have been religious" like girl, have you not been listening to what Reid had been talking about for the past minute? I too loved it when Reid responded without giving her as much as a single glance; he's probably thinking "how am i suppose to converse with someone who can't even summarize what i just said". I know I would be, if I were in his position. That single line (which IMHO ruined a perfectly fine promo) reminded me of when she said "of so we are working with a team" in her first episode, and her other line "how is he feeling?" (referring to Morgan)

So far, all her lines have been filled with uncertainty and uselessness.

Apart from her useless line, the promo looks fantastic and I really like Reid and Prentiss' outfits.
Can't wait, and hoping I want be needing to scream at my tv everytime Seaver opened her mouth like I practically did with 25 to life

nostalgia said...

... adding onto what I mentioned earlier:

3) Why couldn't have Seaver joined the spinoff Criminal Minds show? Why ruin a perfect cast when you can add the new character to the new spinoff show. This way, the inital reaction wouldn't be "oh she replaced jj" but "oh she's just another character on the spinoff"
Judging from the promo, she seems ...lacking the ability comprehend what Reid was talking about literally 2 seconds before her response. I understand she is a cadet, but really? she can't sumarize? REALLY?

anyhoo, looking forward to watching Prentiss, Hotch, and Reid, my three favs from CM.

Marilu said...

Nostaglia, great points! I can answer your first question right now.. because they are trying to shove Seaver down our throats. Some way, some how, they have got to account for this cadet being on the scene, forget that she shouldn't be on the scene to begin with. It is very frustrating that the two experienced women that you mentioned (Prentiss and Todd) were under heavy eye by Hotch, but cadet Seaver gets to stroll on the scene. It is bogus.

To your second point, yeah, what happened to the different team interactions, and why have they been leaving Reid in the dust. At least before when Reid was on his own he was using his genius skills to futher stuff along, now, it is like he is in the background. I don't get it, it is a waste of the skills, experience and intelligence that the Reid character has.

Would love to see Prentiss use her language skills again, that would be nice! Haven't seen that in a long time.

Marilu said...

To add on to what I just read you wrote Nostaglia, yes, why couldn't they have just cast Seaver into the spinoff. The short promo clip was like, oh no, not again, more useless talk from the cadet. I mean really, Reid just got done breaking down some facts, Morgan and Prentiss were bouncing off ideas, then she comes out and says "So this could have all been about religion." This is just pathetic and a waste of valuable screen time. I am praying that the episode is not laced with this foolishness.

I forget who said it earlier, but I too want to watch profilers profiling, not some cadet who doesn't have a clue talking jib jab. If they needed to cast someone, why couldn't have it been someone who could have been in a scene like that collaborating with the rest of the team, someone who is at their level.

Omar said...

The promo, with the exception of the useless chatter from Ashley Seaver, looks compelling. Looking forward to watching tomorrow's episode, it looks like it may have a lot of promise. Hope it will be rich in great dialogue and profiling, and light, very light on anything related to Ashley Seaver.

Joanne said...

The promo was looking good, right up until Seaver opened her mouth. Please Tassler, CBS, ABC, Ed Bernero, anybody in the universe, can you tell me why not only did we have to deal with this characters ramblings for two episodes, and now a third, but now for the whole rest of the season. Why? Either leave the cast at Hotch, Rossi, Reid, Garcia, Morgan and Prentiss (I'm still holding out hope that Paget will stay), or get rid of Seaver and get someone in their who is ready to sit at the table and get stuff started. Not someone like cadet Seaver who makes ridiculous statements that bring down the whole tempo of the scene like "So, this is could have all been religious." I was all energized following the characters going back and forth until she said that. Seriously, you guys need to scrap this Seaver character as soon as is possible for the sake of the show and the fans!

Oh, and why is Garcia still presenting cases? Tassler, I thought JJ's role in the team wasn't integral, but you got Garcia presenting. You know what is coming up next.. why did you get rid of the JJ character? Obviously her role is important!

Aska said...

I hope I won't offend anyone, but I really don't want Hotch and Prentiss to end up together.
I don't want to see any romance between the team members.
Even if Prentiss leaves the show (and I hope she won't), I would still hate to see a romantic relationship between them.

Hotch cares about his team, he values his colleagues who mean an awful lot to him, (they are in some way his extended family).
He doesn't seem to have a stronger relationship with Prentiss than with the rest of the team.

It's true that we saw Prentiss and Morgan working together a lot.
I didn't mind those scenes.
More interactions between Prentiss and Rossi is something I would appreciate, they work well together in my opinion.
I would also love to see Hotch working with Reid and discussing with him more, it has been a long time (others have already pointed that out).

About Reid doing the geographic profile, for me it's logic.
He has (almost) always been the one who did the geographic profile.
I think it was best explained in "Identity", when he worked on a topographical map, geocoded all locations and looked for algorithms.
Since there's mathematics involved (when he has to triangulate a zone for example) he can come up with the most accurate results in a record time. He has proven that on more than one occasion.

Establishing a geographic profile is one of Reid's specialties on the team.I wouldn't want the writers to take that away from him, I hope it stays one of his areas of expertise.

Anonymous said...

Joanne, Aska.. 100% agree!

Anonymous said...

Aska, I don't disagree that geographic profiling is one of Reid's specialties and he's always done it in the past, but lately, it seems to be all that he's doing. Everyone else is out in the field and he's at the precinct coloring a map or minding the coffee pot. They need to get him out more, interacting with the others.

Katia said...

Just cutting and pasting what Joann wrote because I too would like to know why:

"The promo was looking good, right up until Seaver opened her mouth. Please Tassler, CBS, ABC, Ed Bernero, anybody in the universe, can you tell me why not only did we have to deal with this characters ramblings for two episodes, and now a third, but now for the whole rest of the season. Why? Either leave the cast at Hotch, Rossi, Reid, Garcia, Morgan and Prentiss (I'm still holding out hope that Paget will stay), or get rid of Seaver and get someone in their who is ready to sit at the table and get stuff started. Not someone like cadet Seaver who makes ridiculous statements that bring down the whole tempo of the scene like "So, this is could have all been religious." I was all energized following the characters going back and forth until she said that. Seriously, you guys need to scrap this Seaver character as soon as is possible for the sake of the show and the fans!"

Would love to cut and paste many other comments starting with Rochelle's, but there is not enough space here to do so. Rochelle and others make very solid points that I hope will be read and dealt with. I chose Joann's because hers is the most recent and because it asks the question of why the addition of Seaver. A question many here are no doubt asking (have asked), and we are asking not because we are adverse to new characters, but rather because we know that this is not the right character for this show and we do not wish to see this show take additional hits that it may not be able to spring back from down the line.

I am looking forward to the Corazon episode tomorrow and am crossing my fingers that it will be good despite the snippet of Seaver we were subjected to in the promo. Hopefully, tomorrow's episode will not have many of these moments :/

Katia said...

continued...

I too am wondering why the Garcia is still presenting cases as this begs the question as to why AJ's character was let go. I know that Tassler/CBS will not aske her back as crazy as that decision was, but at least admit that her role on the team did serve a function. Having Garcia presents cases does not flow right and just highlights the void that JJ's character/role left on the show. I know that the writers have nothing to do with this, and as such, they have to go with what they have left, but maybe Hotch should present the cases moving forward.

LaShawna said...

I am very curious to see how Hotch responds/interacts with Ashley in "Corazon." She blatantly disobeyed his direct order in "What Happens at Home" and nearly got herself killed and put others at risk. We have no clue WHY he allowed her to complete her remedial training, since all we have to go on is Emily's say so that he authorized it over email. I cannot fathom why he would allow her to come back to complete her training, especially since even Rossi, who recruited her in the first place, didn't seem that enthusiastic about her return thanks to her "stellar" first time out. Hotch gives second chances to those who have already proved their worth (e.g. Reid in "Elephant's Memory), but why would he want to deal with a new agent who can't even follow simple instructions? He is too professional to deal with such nonsense. She better blow us and the team all away in "Corazon" to justify coming back to the BAU right out of the Academy with something. If it is just because Emily wants to mentor her, I will scream bloody murder. Emily deserves better than that.

Cindy said...

Lashawna- you are absolutely right! There is no reason Hotch would put up with that type of behavior from an unproven agent, let alone a cadet. Even with Jordan Todd who came in with 7 yrs of experience, he practically sent her packing- the only reason he allowed her to stay is because he was in a bind with JJ out on maternity leave, and because once again Emily stepped in on someone's behalf. But the difference with Todd is that she came in with 7 years of experience, not straight from some academy obstacle course, and Hotch let it be known that he was eyeing her- he chewed her out pretty good. The people he has given chances to that you pointed out are people who have proven their worth as team members to him. And like you said, even Rossi wasn't all that hot about her returning. Emily had to come and basically speak for her to complete her remedial training at the BAU- which once again shows how weak this character is. I remember Emily's first episode where she basically waited for Hotch in his office at the end of the episode and pleaded her own case, not had someone come in and do it for her.

This is exactly the type of dancing around I feared they would have the characters start doing in order to get Seaver on the team. Again, like you said, Hotch is too professional to deal with these type of antics from a cadet. And if this is all about Emily mentoring her, I'll be screaming right along with you because Emily deserves way better than that. Especially, if they go the "Oh, she had a rough childhood angle, we feel sorry for her" to get into the team- ooh, they had better not do that because that would be unfair to not just Emily, but to all of the team members. Getting a spot on the BAU is not about feeling sorry for someone, letting them give the team a chance to see if they like it, if they fit. It is about professional and experienced people getting together to pool their collective experience and skills together. Once again, it is not a training camp.

Indeed, Seaver had better do something that justifies her returning in "Corazon," although the little promo clip doesn't seem promising. We'll see.

Cindy said...

But to add to that, therein lies the issue with Seaver, that being, that realistically on the team there is nothing that she could do that could blow us away being that she is a cadet (only Reid, who was an agent when he came aboard could do that, but Reid is a genuis- enough said). Unless, they write her as being able to pick all of this up in a way that doesn't at all click with the BAU (which would be extremely frustrating and blatant).

There is a reason all of the characters came in with their respective years of experience in their fields. Going back to what Hotch said in an earlier season- not just anyone who wants to give the BAU a whirl can come in and do so. Been said to death, but she is just too junior for this team, this team is not about being junior- again, taking them two steps back, when they could be going two steps forward.

Anonymous said...

I`m also wondering how Hotch will respond to Seaver in "Corazon", considering how unfairly he treated Jordan Todd. But I`m afraid Rossi and/or Prentiss probably tell him how great she was in "25 to life" (LOL LOL) and he gives her another chance.

The writers try hard from the beginning to get the viewers to accept Seaver . Hotch and Rossi already knew her before "What happens at home" because they worked her fathers case, Emily befriends and mentors her and they want us to believe that Reid shows interest in her. They want to show us that the team loves Seaver and therefore we have to love her. Sorry but that doesn`t work because a rookie like her is not fit to be a member of an elite unit like the BAU.

I hope they have her in the background most of the time and concentrate on the rest of the team. I hope Prentiss/Paget stays. As opposed to many I love her working with Morgan. But no inter-team romances please. I want the team to be friends or a family but not lovers.

Maria S. said...

Count me in as wanting to know how Hotch is going to accept Seaver coming back. I am 99.9% sure, it is going to be something totally out of the realm for the Hotch character.

On another point, some people have said, "Well, Seaver could just be in the background," but my question is why promote this character to series regular if the basic function for them is to be in the background? Believe me, I get why people are saying she should be in the background, but in all truth, she shouldn't even be there if her character's main function is to be in the background, sitting around the table listenting and making mostly uninformed statements (based on the fact that she has no experience because she is a cadet). A series regular should be someone like Prentiss and Rossi when they came in, characters who could be in the mix, people worthy of being in the mix and have the credentials to back it up. Not a glorified intern/trainee.

I am another one who is hoping that Paget will stay. If she does, PLEASE just keep the team at Hotch, Prentiss, Garcia, Reid, Morgan, and Rossi. If she leaves, or even if she stays and you feel the need to get another cast member, then PLEASE cast a character that has the experience to be there. No offense against the actress that plays Seaver, it is not personal, it is just that the Seaver character is not good for the show. The character is distracting and takes away from the flow of the team interaction in briefings and out in the field.

Anonymous said...

I agree 100% with "here's hoping". What happened to the wonderful Hotch/Prentiss scenes; and why not have some type of kinship between them?

TPTB have ruined the show by firing AJ. They made it worse by bringing in Seaver. The writing has suffered since they fired the Andrew Wilder and the rest of the writers. They have already done everything possible to ruin the show.

With all the blood, gore, and violence toward women; IMO many would appreciate some tenderness between two characters who have incredible chemistry and an already-established understanding.

Even if you don't give us romance (which I would love to see), we'd appreciate some of the more memorable scenes like the Hotch/Prentiss scenes from Bloodline, Nameless Faceless, Haunted,the list goes on.

More Hotch/Prentiss please!

Jennifer said...

Just saw the promo clip and I have to say that I had the same reaction as Ingrid, "oh god!" Why is it that in a 1 minute or so clip I come out feeling like I want to scream because here again Seaver is saying something totally off? This shouldn't be the case.
Everything was clicking right up until Seaver came on the screen with her little tidbit. I love CM, but really, a lot of things have been pushing my buttons lately. For starters, the writing which has gone down, the lack of team interactions, the underuse of Reid's intelligence, Garcia presenting cases, and now it is as if I am being pushed off the cliff with this Seaver character. Her character is completely useless, sorry, but there is just no other way to say it. As much as I am looking forward to and am hopeful about tonight's episode, if there are a lot of Seaver moments in it, I am going to have to switch the channel until she gets off the screen.

Anonymous said...

Let's see, last episode the complaints were that Ashley shouldn't have been commenting on the case because she doesn't know anything and now all of the sudden they're making her knowledgable. This episode the complaint is that Ashley is asking stupid questions. Honestly people, pick a gripe and stick with it.

Ashley is a cadet. She's in training. She provides the opportunity to see what the profilers do through fresh, learning and curious eyes. She doesn't know what they know and it will be an opportunity to explain how they do what they do and why they do what they do from a different angle.

Not everybody that tunes into Criminal Minds has been obsessively watching it for five plus years and is an expert know-it-all who doesn't need to have the basics explained to them. The network and the writers are not ONLY reaching out to the small handful of internet fanatics who believe the show should always cater to them and ONLY them.

She's here to stay, at least for this season. So I'd suggest either accepting it or changing the channel. So many of you have done nothing but whine and complain after every episode. My god, TURN IT OFF. There are so many other viewing options. Why would anyone continue to watch anything that apparently causes them so much misery?

Maribel said...

Okay, let's start with this.. people love this show and are giving it the benefit of the doubt because of the love that they have for the show. Hence, why they haven't turned the channel, YET. So, when fans of a show they love see a character come in that they know spells trouble for the show, not only do they have the right to say something, they SHOULD say something. Part of the reason this forum is here is exactly for that, for fans to share their views with the show in a way that most other shows don't provide, and for that, we are thankful.

Yes, not everyone who sees the show has been with it for 5 seasons, but you had better believe that the CORE FAN BASE for the show is compromised of exactly these people- the show knows it, CBS knows it and so does ABC.

Perhaps you haven't been with the show for 5 seasons, but here is a small 101, the BAU is an elite team in the FBI, a specialized unit of profilers with years of experience in different fields who come together to delve into the mind of the crimina; to catch him or her. What part of that description warrants having a cadet on the team? By the description of the show on the website alone, it leaves one asking, "Um, why is a cadet there?" The show is not about teaching viewers about profiling. If you want to learn about profiling, I am sure there are a lot of books on the subject.

The crux of the show, what makes it entertaining and edgy, is seeing how the profilers get together and profile. Oh, and to break it down further, the problem with the Seaver character is that she shouldn't be there in the first place, thus, the possible confusion as to why there isn't one gripe people are sticking to.

Anonymous said...

Yes, not everyone who sees the show has been with it for 5 seasons, but you had better believe that the CORE FAN BASE for the show is compromised of exactly these people- the show knows it, CBS knows it and so does ABC.

I realize that you consider 30,000 people to be a CORE FAN BASE, but in reality they aren't. They aren't even a drop in the bucket. The show knows it, CBS knows it and so does ABC.

Perhaps you haven't been with the show for 5 seasons, but here is a small 101

Save your "expertise" for someone who hasn't been an avid watcher since the beginning. The BAU, the real one, does offer internships. It trains and it teaches. But that aside, this is FICTION and if you can so easily accept a character like Spencer Reid who would NEVER, EVER be an FBI agent, much less a member of the BAU in reality because he is so entertaining to watch then why can't you open your minds up to the possibility that watching someone learning the ropes might have some entertainment value? Who cares whether or not it would ever REALLY happen. It's television and it's entertainment and there is so much on this show that would NEVER happen in reality so why choose this particular thing to cry foul over?

I'm all for people speaking their minds. That's why I'm speaking mine. I love this show, but there is no piece of fictional work that could make me continue to stick around if it were making me as miserable as it is apparently making so many of you and for SO LONG. I mean this isn't new. It's been going on since last season. This is the show. Like it or for the love of god, please just leave it and move on to something that doesn't insult your intelligence so badly.

heyya said...

This is addressed to Anonymous above:
CM fans I have chatted and interacted with on various fan sites, blogs etc..are some of the most civil, passionate and loyal fans around. I agree that you may not have been watching the show since 5years, but if it were not for the people who did watch the show back then who is to say CM would have survived to this day? As to what you said about whining and complaining, I think it's really sad to see a once great show going on a steadily downward slope, with the inclusion of characters like Ashley Seaver. About her asking questions and looking at profiling through fresh, curious eyes..we already had all that in season 1 when Elle was new and Reid was relatively young and we learned a lot about the workings of the BAU through his character too. So another gripe I have with Ashley Seaver is why they're repeating the same stuff from season 1 through her? Her inclusion defies logic ans she has no business being in the BAU.
But you are right we need to learn to accept her because she is here to stay for season 6 at least. I just hope the in their bid to keep super cadet Ashley Seaver CBS&CM don't end up losing all their loyal viewers because god knows we deserve better than such illogical characters. The viewers as well as the cast.
Onto Corazon, Reid is my favourite so I'm really looking forward to it. I just have my doubts though, I think Seaver's going to ruin every scene she'll be in because that is what she has been doing since "What Happens at Home" I hope I'm wrong but she's just ruining the dynamics of the team. They're better off without her.

E. Rousset said...

I didn't mind Ashley's interaction in the preview from Corazon.
Now don't get me wrong, I really didn't want her character to become a regular.
But if she has to stay I prefer to see her looking green and clueless (and in need of training), I don't want her to look like a profiler when she's not even out of the Academy. That would bug me much more than her being clueless.

That's what annoyed me in "25 To Life". She shouldn't have been able to participate when the team was establishing the profile.

I hope she won't "prove her worth" in this episode : I hope this episode will center around Reid and his interactions with his "regular" colleagues.
I'm mostly hoping for some good Hotch/Reid scenes.

On a side note, I don't want to see any kind of romance on the show.

Jeanette said...

I would double check those facts.. 30,000 core fan base, I don't think so. The show wouldn't have been running for this long if it were only that many people watching for a significant period of time (since season 1). That would mean, that every year, this show is catching millions of new viewers. That is not possible, not even for as good a show like CM.

You have your views, that is great, but there is no need to denigrate the views of other people. And yes, this is a fictional show, and as such, things will happen on the show that would never happen in the real world. That is not the issue, the issue is in keeping with the consistency of the show. Cadet Seaver does not keep with the consistency of the show.

Forums express all types of views, some good, some bad, some indifferent. If people can't handle reading what they conclude are "gripes" and "whinning" on what they deem a regular basis, then perhaps a forum is not a good place for them. Just my opinion.

Anonymous said...

That is not the issue, the issue is in keeping with the consistency of the show. Cadet Seaver does not keep with the consistency of the show.

Today the argument is "consistency", tomorrow, who knows? The argument changes daily because the issues many have with the character really have nothing to do with a character they've seen very little of and know nothing about yet. All this complaining and nobody even knows what they plan on doing with the character yet? Really?

Also, since when has "consistency" ever been a part of Criminal Minds? Do we really need to start listing all of "inconsistencies" with the show in order to combat today's argument for why Ashley Seaver is Satan reincarnated?

Rebecca said...

There is no point in continuing to go back and forth with particular commenters. Everyone has their views and should be welcome to express them whether people agree with what you have to say or not. Going back and forth when there will obviously be in change of view for particular people will just cause stress.

Agree or not, views should be expressed in a respectful manner, if not, I say just move along.

Rebecca said...

I meant to write "when there will obviously be no change of view." I wish there were an edit function here :)

Anonymous said...

I am really getting irritated by people continuing to trash agent Seaver. In the promo she had one line and it was a line that would have naturally been said. It has been said. You are just angry that a new character is saying it and not Prentiss, who used to the one who would say those inocuous lines that others were thinking but she verbalized. Lets get off the high horse people. Seaver is there and she will make those little remarks that used to said by others. The others will now answer and provide the profiling to those remarks.

Live with it.

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