Monday, March 12, 2012

Spoiler Thread: I Love You, Tommy Brown


“I Love You, Tommy Brown” – When married couples fostering young children end up being killed in Seattle, the BAU team looks for an unsub with a maternal-yet-murderous instinct. Also, Garcia fears a possible proposition from Kevin.

Talk about this episode in the comment...

Careful in case you haven't watched the episode yet... comments might contain ***SPOILERS***

108 comments:

Anonymous said...

Is MGG in this episode?

It's the first time his name is not showing up for one in the IMDB.

Anonymous said...

He is in it. I saw the Canadian preview and he is there.

Anonymous said...

I just dread the Garcia moments now. I used to love this character but now I sometimes feel I am watching a scene from "Legally Blond". There is a difference between being child-like and childish. Please have her deal with this situation as a mid 30's adult and not a silly fool as in the episode with Morgan in a towel. I know this sounds negative, but in the beginning the 2 of them were on an equal footing, loving and teasing friends. That is the Garcia that made me smile.

Diane said...

This is so bittersweet for me.

I love this show and have from season 1, and i just can't get over that my favorite actress Paget Brewster is leaving, i just can't watch anymore episodes of season 7.

I respect Paget decision and will continue to support and follow her career. Paget thank you for giving us such an awesome character as Emily Prentiss, she is by far the best character CM has ever had, the show just won't be the same without you, for me the family is broken.

I also like to wish the cast of CM all the best for season 8.

Sadly, with a heavy heart i say Goodbye to my favorite show.

Anonymous said...

Don't give up the ghost yet. This season started out pretty rocky. Reruns didn't help. But things seem to be improving. Maybe the writers should be made to watch Seasons 1 & 2 and rediscover what made the show popular. As to characters, they can change to the benefit of the show if done wisely and well. Rossi in for Gideon. Worked. Greenaway out; Prentiss in. Ditto. As I noted in another thread, M*A*S*H handled a number of character changes well, survived, and even improved. CM will do well, and do well with fans, if it stays true to its roots.

Anonymous said...

I beg you to get rid of this writer. It seems like a great inconvenience for her to write any lines for the cast. If she doesn't want to write stories about profiling she should write for another show.

LaShawna said...

All right. First off, considering that Janine Sherman Barrois wrote it, I actually liked it a fair amount. And I usually don't like her episodes.

Yes, this another one of those stories that is unsub heavy. But again, you have no real understanding of the unsub's endgame until the episode was half over. And the story gave a fair amount of story time to the unsub/victim dynamic.

As for the unsub, I sum her up with a few words: a psychotic Mary Kay LeTourneau. If you don't recognize the name, Google her, because this is almost her story (minus the parade of dead bodies and one extra kid). And ironically (though probably not since I'm sure the writer set the story here deliberately), this story was also set in Washington State. Though in this case, it is Seattle.

I should have guessed the story when the press release talked about Teri Polo as a former teacher. Yep, a former teacher who was molesting her underage male student (her second victim). She gets sent to jail, gives birth to their child, child is put up for adoption, unsub is released and goes on a killing spree to recover her child who was adopted out. I didn't exactly see it coming when she announced to the child's (adoptive) mother that this child was actually hers. THEN the rest of the story unravels.

I can completely understand why the shootings of this episode was reversed with episode 17. Reid is hardly in this episode at all (since this was before he started directing his). However, he had a choice random factoid about the attractiveness of female sex offenders and the length of their prison terms. And he looked delicious in a polka dotted shirt.

No surprises with Penelope, Kevin and Morgan. Yes, Kevin wanted to propose and was asking advice from Morgan, who wanted no part of this. Penelope guessed what it was all about, and hell yeah, she was upset. She apparently equates making a relationship official (i.e. marriage) with those involved giving up their identity and sounding the death knell of the relationship. I guess she likes to have her space, Kevin have his space, and they come together every so often. I'll be honest, I can totally see where Kevin is coming from, because he does want more. I mean, they've been dating four years, so it's not surprising if at least one of the members of the couple wants to marry. But Kevin had some choice (and probably accurate) words, asking Penelope if it was marriage in general she was opposed to, or marriage to HIM (I tend to think the latter). So barring a lobotomy, an infection by an alien parasite, or a surprise pregnancy, I feel confident in saying that Kevin and Penelope will NOT be the ones marrying in the season finale. Hell, I don't even know how much longer they will last as a couple.

Anonymous said...

While this episode was not awful, it wasn't good in my opinion. There was minimal profiling and it seemed to go on forever...I was only halfway through and it felt like I had been watching for hours. The teacher/student aspect was interesting, but it could have been written a lot better

Anonymous said...

Gracia is getting on my last nerve
Real tired of her rambling. Agree that the writers should go back to the beginning and recapture what made this program great. More profiling and less about the main actors lives. Would love to have that--can't wait to see next weeks
show--feeling again.

Anonymous said...

Criminal Minds has turned in to a show about crappy cases with minimal profiling, bookended by soap opera stuff. This season has sucked royal balls....character's that I used to love I now despise...Garcia, Hotch...Erica M. has ruined a show that was once upon a time almost flawless.

Anonymous said...

I have to say this season has been good.I see a lot of people are saying that the writers aren't really doing a good job.I'm sorry but I disagree - yes-I understand that this is a crime drama show.But we need to get to know the characters on a personal basis.This just helps the show out more and gives a more abroad view of everybody.I love the show because of the actors and how they portray F.B.I agents.With Paget Brewster leaving at the end of the season -the one thing that CBS - should not do is get somebody to take her place- Leave the remaining cast intact -we don't need to go back to what happened in season 7. E.J. Jahnes

Anonymous said...

I mean in season 6 - in the statement that I just posted .

E.J. Jahnes

Anonymous said...

I get the feeling they're squeezing time and substance out of the story to make room for the soap opera bookends. The show that we like won't survive that way. Could it be that they are consciously trying to appeal to a different audience? An example: Monk was a quirky but solid show with a loyal following. Trying to appeal to a "hipper" audience (according to some reporting) it became silly, sophomoric, and gradually more bizarre. It had a good run, but the show at the end was not the same as when it began.

LaShawna said...

I honestly think part of the problem is Janine Sherman Barrois. She has flat out stated in previous chats that she likes to focus on the unsub and the guest stars, because those are her characters to build as she wishes. I never got the impression she liked writing for the team, and it consistently shows in her episodes. I like this season overall, but I don't like her work. I like other writers on this show.

NatashaMD said...

That was hands down one of the best episodes of the season!! It's so great when they do female UnSubs. It starts to get predictable when it's only men. The UnSub was fantastic. Thank you Criminal Minds for always keeping it fresh and exciting. This season all the episodes have been strong. Hotch looked cute in it too. But Garcia..... she was so emotional and sweet and so Garcia and she didn't want to do it but that was in her heart. You can't marry someone and know inside it's wrong. Garcia knew it was wrong. I love her for being honest. Pass me the Kleenex!

Anonymous said...

This episode was great. It was dramatic and weird. One of my favorite things was Garcia and Kevin and Kevin crying. Overall it sort of reminded me of that Nicole Kidman movie where she was after the kid she taught or was one of her neighbors.

criminalchk said...

This season each of the episodes has been so unique and cool. Every time I think I have it figured out I don't. Truly this is one of the best years. I cried at the end of the ep.  Garcia with the tears. Broke my heart but it was great. Please get them back together.

Jamie said...

The Morgan and Kevin scene was so good. "I know you are her boo....and she's your babygirl!!! Bravo. LOL.

Anonymous said...

It's about time they did teacher/love syndrome it's such an epidemic. That kid was awesome and so in love. It was just wrong what she did to him.

Anonymous said...

Garcia omg... it was so sad.Do you think they'll get back together?

JM said...

Not a bad, not a good episode. Agree Garcia is acting more like a child than a grown up with a child in her heart.

Sometimes I have the feeling CM writters and Erica Messer are trying very hard to give the fans a thank you for the support during season 6 or something like that, by giving us some things about their personal lives or moments outside the job, trying to make them "human" or "regular people".

We, fans, asked for this things (not all but some of us) like, getting to know more personal facts, their past, their families (like Emily's dad f.e.), etc, that's also the reason why fanfictions are full with this things.

BUt, like I said, I think they're trying very hard and forcing it, like today's episode, the relationship with Hotch and Beth (I don't hate her or anything, I like the character but, for me, something is off), the episode with Morgan and Garcia "confusion"

And also, I still have the feeling we are watching the last decent episodes.

luvthejem said...

Seriously? Was half the team even in this episode? Someone needs to remind the writers that this show is about a team of FBI agents not the criminals they chase. I miss the days of not knowing who committed the crimes. I miss guessing whether it was someone we'd met or not. I miss the suspense. *sigh* Seems like the only good episodes we get anymore are reruns on ION and A&E.

Pat said...

LaShawna said...
I honestly think part of the problem is Janine Sherman Barrois. She has flat out stated in previous chats that she likes to focus on the unsub and the guest stars, because those are her characters to build as she wishes. I never got the impression she liked writing for the team, and it consistently shows in her episodes. I like this season overall, but I don't like her work. I like other writers on this show.


If this is the case then perhaps JSB should not be part of a writing TEAM as she doesn't seem like a team player to me. Does she not realize that the viewers turn in to see the characters we've grown to love over six seasons? Is that not what writing for a television program entails, writing for the characters that already exist. If she can't or refuses to understand this, I think this season should be her last.

Anonymous said...

I agree. I miss the stories where we the viewers had to play along. We were part of the BAU team. Now, we see who is doing it and why before the BAU team. This show is not Columbo. I want it back the way it used to be. I want to play along. Also, I would love to see Will and JJ married before Garcia and Kevin. Garcia spoke with her heart. She May not be the type that wants to be married. That is ok. If Kevin is that type, then he needs to move on. Does Garcia have feelings for Morgan? Who knows. Does Morgan have feelings for Garcia? Who knows. If they take it there, play it slow. Keep the flirting. But first, fix the stories.

Anonymous said...

I completely gave up on the show
I think they have destroyed that unique thing that used to put Criminal Minds way beyond the usual tv show in terms of creativity and talent
They stage personal events about the team but we don't care because, guess what, it's not greys anatomy here! and the plots are now really not interesting, violence but without psychological explanation is particularly intolerable.
And I used to be a huge fan of Hotch, you have no idea how I think his rebound love story is lame...

Anonymous said...

"Garcia is getting on my last nerve" - I couldn't agree more. But her histrionics are just a symptom of the overall deterioration of the show. The whole show is getting on my last nerve at this point. I couldn't agree more with the person who said s/he pines for the days of looking forward to Wednesdays. Now I dread them, because I keep hoping for a turnaround and getting disappointed. The BAU team seems peripheral to the stories now. Last night's episode seemed more like a Lifetime TV movie than Criminal Minds to me. I do like most of the vignettes about the team's personal lives (except this last one), but they don't make up for poorly written stories and most of the team playing minor support roles to the Unsub.

Mary O said...

I have to say, that what really disappoints me is the fans' reactions. We ask for more personal information on the team members and when it comes, we b*tch because it's not the way we would have done it. I come here every week and read the responses and most of what I see are people complaining about how lame the show has become. Well, if you hate it that much, why are you still watching? Shows must evolve and changes happen, just like life. We may not like them all, but that's the facts. I have a feeling those same people would be complaining if nothing had changed and then they would be upset because we weren't seeing the personal side of the team.

I personally have really enjoyed this season and can't wait for #8! I like learning about the team members and seeing them as humans, not just members of a team who do nothing but work. Sure, there are things I would personally change but you can't please everybody!

Keep up the good work CM and I can't wait to watch every new episode. I, too, hope that it's JJ and Will getting married at the end of the season..not a big Kevin fan although he and Garcia do make a good fit. I'm really going to hate seeing Prentiss leave but it might bring some fresh perspective to bring in someone new (if they so choose to do that).

These are just my opinions and I don't mean to offend anyone, just wanted to put some positive feedback out to the CM higher ups. Some of us still really love the show!

Anonymous said...

Selina: someone said, they're squeezing time and substance out and that's what I think and watch! But I think too, Erica has taken over in a really difficult moment and I thank her for that. She had the courage to take the challenge. Means, I give her a chance and some leeway, even as I see the retooling and tone shift. As for the character development I have another view. For me, it always should arise from cases they work, over team interaction/bonding to a quick peek into the privat life of them. And add, that old show writers left - and yes every writers has his own style - which of course is legit, it only should more or less fit in a certain border. And I openly admit, I do expect more from a show if it does character development, which permises are criminals, psychology and human behavior along with mind disorders. So yes, I compare them to a higher standard as I do with e.g. CSI or Law&Order. The character development (except Garica she's not a profiler), this is partially broken for me, it's not evolving in a congruent/credible way. Profilers experts in analysing behavior except their own, LOL now I sound like Cramer from 7x01. And Reid, Rossi and Prentiss do not get enough screen-time for me this season. It seems they are busy convince me about JJs transformation into a profiler within a year. And at the same time Morgan could tracking down Doyle and give JJ training lessons. That are some examples I do not believe. Sadly Paget is leaving, Godspeed Paget and thanks for the years I could watch you.

Anonymous said...

I have to agree with Garcia getting on my nerves, but that is the goodness of writing. It would not be realistic if these people acted like robots. It's true in any field from Law Enforcement to Psychologists. Alot of them do not hold their lives in the same regard. Thats what I like about episodes that show real life characterization. Garcia was an interesting choice, but it makes me want to know more. I guess the writer did what they were supposed to do...lure me in for the next episode.

Anonymous said...

I like this writer in particular.The unsubs she comes up with are insane..no pun intended...Like that father son episode from before. Great show. I want to know what happens with Garcia.

Anonymous said...

I had no idea where this was going. I thought it was going to be just about a spree killing foster families and look at what it turned out to be. Wow. Fantastic.

Anonymous said...

This season is the best season of the show. The episodes have been fantastic. We love you guys.

James said...

I had no idea where this episode was going. It was so scarey and the woman was so weird and twisted. Way to go Criminal Minds.

Tanya said...

This was so sad. So true. It's so unfortunate that teachers do this to kids. And if it's true that they get less time in jail when they are caught because of how they look...that's just a shame. Kids are kids and predators are predators. No matter what they look like.

Anonymous said...

Was that the chic from "Meet the Fockers!"  She was so twisted and the fact that she played it like a girl in high school.

Anonymous said...

Weak episode.

Anonymous said...

Trouble with the unsub-driven episodes is that they lack syspense and mystery for the most part. We know who the bad egg is fairly early on, and we know that the malefactor will be probably be caught. The story left is how the team figurers it out. That's legitimate, but with time taken for the prologue and postlogue soap opera segments, what the team really does best is compressed.

Pat said...

Having said I don't like unsub driven stories, some of them can be very good, but for them to be, in my opinion, they have to make you feel something for the unsub. Such episodes as Distress, which makes me cry every time, is unsub driven, but you feel for this poor man who, in his mind, is fighting for his life in a war zone. The same could be said of episodes like Elephant's Memory, True Night and Big Game/Revelations. In these eps although we got a lot of the unsub and knew right off who was responsible, the story of what made the unsub what he/she was hit you in the gut, at least for me, as the team worked together to figure them out.

For me, the recent unsub centric stories have none of this. I feel nothing for Sid and Ray in The Thirteenth Step. I feel nothing for Cy in Proof and so on. I felt absolutely nothing for Maggie last night. I think if the writers are going to present us with an unsub as the main character, they have to make us feel for him/her in some way. The caliber of the writing in I Love You Tommy Brown can not even compare to the caliber of the writing that makes me cry for Roy Woodridge in Distress.

Ciara-Louise said...

When Does Paget leave?? :( And did Garcia and Kevin just split up?? :L For the Canadian Preview who is in it and what website did you get the preview from?? xxx

Cindi said...

I Love you Tommy Brown. clever, intriguing, had me at the edge of my seat. I was hoping the unsub would stop executing people. She seemed to soften her blow towards the end of the episode. I Love episodes like this it makes you realize that everyone is human. We are not all just cyborgs. it seems thats what people like watching predictability. This episode was so unpredictable. Just when I thought I knew exactly what was happening I was awakened from my usual TV coma with something interesting. Loved loved loved this episode. Great Job Janine Sherman Barrois. keep up the good work. Without you criminal minds would be so predictable like every other crime drama out there.

Anonymous said...

This is my first time on this blog and I'm surprised this is a "fan site. Seems there are alot of haters in this blog. Wow. Im shocked how unappreciative people are for good art. I would think someone had a personal issue with this writer. I would like to see more objective opinions. Enough of that. I will be tuning in to see whats up with Kevin and Garcia. Love the many dimension this episode had. Thanks to the writer for the ride!!

Anonymous said...

Not haters. Fans who care about the show, know the show, and express opinions and observations about an interesting subject. My guess is no one is 100% right or even purports to be. Certainly not this poster. I have strong, maybe set, opinions; but I have been enlightened by some of the comments and opinions contrary to mine. I, for one, appreciate those other opinions. Fan is short for Fanatic, not yes-man.

James said...

I enjoy watching movies and television shows that let actors act. Very well written show. This episode had so many great moments. One when the unsub stomped her foot when telling the victim to take off her dress. The girl who came to ask the boy to prom acted her butt off. Tommy he was great too. Even dude/detective with OCD. The unsub had so many opportunities to do what she does best. Act. This episode was seasoned so well. I can say this writer is an actors writer. I need to see what else this writer has written. Would love to watch. All around good episode Criminal Minds. Thank you.

HSG said...

quote: luvthejem said...

Seriously? Was half the team even in this episode? Someone needs to remind the writers that this show is about a team of FBI agents not the criminals they chase. I miss the days of not knowing who committed the crimes. I miss guessing whether it was someone we'd met or not. I miss the suspense. *sigh* Seems like the only good episodes we get anymore are reruns on ION and A&E.

Thursday, March 15, 2012


Ditto! Think Rossi was on maybe 1 minute or 2.

Find myself surfing channels for something better, or a rerun of CM seasons 1-5. Keep hoping it will turn around and return to the best series on TV. Sadly, don't see that as being likely.

Anonymous said...

I hope it's Garcia and Kevin who get married, i felt for Kevin, Garcia just broke his heart.

After this episode, i can't see how season 7 ends with a JJ and Will wedding, but then the writers do what they do, and it doesn't have to make sense. Never liked the Will character and don't want to see him on the show anymore.

A happy ending is, Henry is page boy at his godmother (Garcia) wedding.

Anonymous said...

I know I am a little late with this, but congratulations to Criminal Minds for being renewed. So happy there will be another year with our wonderful team. Yay!!!!!!

Anonymous said...

I hope for a Garcia and Kevin wedding, cute couple.

And i hope the writers, have Emily Prentiss leaving the BAU to take command of a new task force within the FBI, say something to do with children, as we know she will do anything to save them.

Eleven said...

Just a question - what do people mean when they say "soap opera"?

Anonymous said...

A fair question, ELEVEN. I can't speak for other posters, but when I use the term "soap opera" in this context, I mean excessive melodramatic romantic sentimentality which is not in furtherance of the basic story. I distinguish that from natural character development as part of the story. The prologue and epilogue segments of this show are examples. They did not further the show's plot. Some fans like those additions. That's fine. I personally would prefer the effort go into mystery and suspense.

Eleven said...

I am a little wary of these terms/phrases, Anon, because i think they might be misleading. I am equally concerned about saying "too much focus on their personal lives". Because when I compare the earlier seasons with this one, I don't actually notice a huge change in the AMOUNT of time spent on the "personal" lives of the characters. I don't think JJ/Will took up any less screen time than Kevin/Garcia. I don't think 5mins of focus on any relationship would make CM a "soap opera". I believe the overemphasis comes more from the spoilers and the speculation surrounding them than from the actual minutes/energy spent on the stories themselves. The danger of using terms like "soap opera" and "too much time spent on personal lives", in my opinion, is that it gives the writers a false idea about how to 'rectify' any lapses they might have. It really isn't about "amount" at all, in my view; only in "tone". The violence in "Kill Bill" isn't less than "Saw III" - but you'd immediately know the difference between them.

So, the writers might want to "rectify" the problem of the overemphasis by taking it out completely - then we'd be left with something dry and possibly heartless, nothing more than what you might find on "true crime library".

I realise angst is a great pull, especially outside the comic genre; so it's not like I don't understand the complaints; it isn't that I find CM hasn't changed or that I used to like it more - but I've accepted some amount of compromise because I still want to tune in. I just feel there are more beneficial (and kinder) ways of putting our ideas across than trying to corner/attack a writer/actor/actor (eg, some of the qs posed to JSB). To me, the amount of hatred/negativity seen too often these days on the internet is not commensurate with the "crime" CM has allegedly committed.

Anon immediately above, i agree with you about a certain lack of organic interlacing of the backstories these days. However, i also recognise the need for them to sometimes step away from a direct link between the characters' lives and the cases.

Anonymous said...

From "Anon Above"

Well said, ELEVEN, and entirely appropriate. As I said in an earlier post, I really don't see hatred on the part of anyone here. Strong feelings expressed to be sure. That's because we are all fan(atic)s of the show. Nothing more or less. Some more fanatic than others, of course. The printed word lacks the inflection of speech if the conversation were in person. Looks harsher than it would sound. I doubt if the writers think they have anything to fix, and even if they did, I doubt if they would look to fan posters to fix it. Even a skillful writer couldn't thread that needle. I happen to like mysteries with my mysteries and not romances. Sherlock Holmes, not Remington Steele. CM's a good show. It did lose its legs this season for a variety of reasons including cast uncertainty, I imagine. This is a good place to air opinions about it. I'd just like the needle to be skewed toward the mysterious. But then I'm just one customer. And I enjoy reading the input of others.

Eleven said...

I agree with you about speech and writing, and i, too, prefer mysteries w/o romance to mysteries with. I love earlier CM more than the two most recent ones, but i also note that during those early seasons we have several romances - Gideon/Sarah, Hotch/Haley, Reid/Lila, JJ/Will, Garcia/Kevil/JCB, Rossi/Emma. No, they're not the same, nor should they be, in my opinion. few had happy endings. But for me, they were indeed romances, and well written, too. It's all in the telling of the story, isn't it.

Anonymous said...

Let's pls all give each other the benefit of the doubt: we have different views...and expressing those is the point of blogging...but speaking for myself I write out of devotion to this show and take exception at being called "a hater" when I criticize it. I have been a die-hard fan, like a lot of folk on here, from Season 1. As such, I know just how great this show can be, and am saddened that it has deteriorated (IMHO). I write because I want it to improve and have faith than it can. Stories about the team members are great IF they are well conceived, and added into otherwise well-written stories. The person who mentioned Elephant's Memory picked a wonderful example of a great unsub-centric episode that dovetailed beautifully with one team member's own struggles. Both were extremely well crafted, the story was superbly written, very moving and believable. Again, IMHO, not a single episode from the current season measures up to that. Whether we express positive or negative views on this blog, the point is to give honest fan feedback.

Eleven said...

Anon, absolutely - negative feedback in itself is not 'hate' - it is the language we use. And as you (?) said before, we should try to be a little more aware of tone when we write because there are no verbal/facial cues. It's always great to have debate, differing opinions, varied ways of seeing/interpreting things - respect is all that's needed.

Anonymous said...

Different Anon - it's hard to tell 'em apart - but the point is well taken, and I agree. That's a problem with written communication like this. "What did he/she mean by that crack?" Probably nothing, but there it is in print. "Just who're you calling a (fill in the blank)?" Guess they ought to assign Anons numbers or something. It's just easy to hit that one button after typing rather than doing some login rigmarole or other. Sort of unsubbish - but with a method in the madness. Henceforth Anon-GB

Eleven said...

hi, GB, nice to meet you! We're all pretty anon here, no matter how you slice it. Little names/initials just help the others to address the commentor, that's all!

Anonymous said...

Keep the official Anons sorted out to a degree. Good idea. Fact is, this season has generated a lot of interest - criticism and support included - probably because it is a formative, or maybe reformative, season. Contract issues early on, some cast uncertainty, and now loss of the team mother-figure pending. Handled well, this season could end strong and lead in to a strong next season, regardless of the formulae of the individual shows. My opinion is that a smooth transition from 7 to 8 might be called for as opposed to the traditional, read that gutwrenching, cliffhanger. The cliffhanger can create speculation and have the audience waiting for the fall opener. But CM has a faithful audience that doesn't require chicanery to be persuaded to watch, and this time the promise of some solidarity and predictability might be good. Doesn't have to be without drama, suspense, and the rest; and I'm not sure what form I would like it to take. I'll give it some thought. GB

Anonymous said...

The episode to me was okay again we know who the killer was from the beginning , but it was different the way the story turned out with it being a teacher /student situation. I really didn't know where the story was going I just thought that she was going to kill people who had babies. But overall the episode was gain okay.

I felt bad for Kevin because he wants forever with Garcia but doesn't feel the same. I was actually surprised that she didn't want to get married, because she comes off as a dreamer. I am wondering if its over for them it sounded like it last night.

Honestly if Garcia and Kevin aren't the ones getting married at the end of the season I do hope that its JJ and Will. he has been wanting to marry her since she was pregnant with Henry. I mean they are a family already so all they have to do is make it official. I really hope that they don't make it be Hotch and Beth, because to me it will be just wrong and infact their whole "relationship" is wrong.

Anonymous said...

Through season five, we all knew that the main characters had lives outside the BAU....but it was not the focus of the show...the focus was on the heavy psychological profiling. If you check out various CM boards...do you know what's being discussed??? Hotch and Beth, Garcia and Kevin, Morgan and Garcia....I mean this is CRIMINAL MINDS.....for me there is not one episode this season that has been memorable that I would check out on ION or A&E. I dare anyone to tell me that any episode this season can stand up to - the fisher king, riding the lightening, minimal loss, no way out..shall I go on...revelations, 100.....PLEASE... this season IS indeed soap operish and I do blame Erica Messer, instead of giving interviews about psychological profiling...she was talking up Hotch's new love and guess what..the season finale...we're ending with a surprise wedding......I'm out....I know I'm about to be flamed.

Biz

Anonymous said...

We are all entitled to have an opinion I find it hard to be called a "hater" just because I expressed (I among others) my frustrated feelings about the show.
Hello freedom of speech...!

Anonymous said...

I wanted to sign it : i must be anonymous 405

Anonymous said...

The fact is that the show is in flux or transition right now. A lot of loyal fans are concerned. Some like the direction it looks like the show is heading; some don't. Some retooling was probably necessary for a variety of reasons. A sort of Seven Year Itch maybe. I'm one of those who don't care for the new look, but I am trying to keep an open mind to see where we're going. In my opinion, however, the show cannot remain in this neither fish nor fowl state for long. Otherwise it will begin to lose traction - probably permanently. It must eventually, soon, decide if it is a story of profilers or if it is a romantic drama set against the backdrop of the FBI. One view for what it's worth. GB

Anonymous said...

To me alot of the episodes this season havn't been very good and most of them I don't even remember.
If Erica Messer is responsible for these episodes being like this then honestly they need to get rid of her, and find someone who can bring CM to where it was before. I'm hearing that in every interview or most of them she is constantly talking about Hotch and Beth and their relationship.

I think that's why some of us feel like they are pushing them on us too hard, and I feel that its being rushed in matter of 3 episodes. I understand that you want us viewers to see their personal lives but if your going to be talking about the agents relationships, then talk about JJ and Will since I only heard 1 thing about them so far this season.

It was when Henry was sick and JJ was away on a case, and to me its like its all about Hotch and Beth and what's going on with them and nothing about Morgan or Reid finding someone. Now there is going to be a surprise wedding at the end of the season and I wonder who will be the ones to tie the knot?. I'm sure everyone might assume that its Hotch and Beth, but what will make it surprising is that they make Garcia and Kevin tying the knot or JJ and Will.
Now that would be a better ending.

HSG said...

Biz
I agree 110%. This season, and last were not worth watching over.

No flame from me.

Eleven said...

Anon above HSG - how has it been "all about Hotch and Beth"? 8mins over 3 episodes. We've had 17 epsiodes of 42mins each. I can understand why many of us are unhappy with this season, but i will never understand the objection to a character who has been on screen for less than 10mins.

Anonymous said...

I'm not sure I would have stated it in the terms of the Above Anon, in Beth's short time she has established herself (in my opinion at least) as a suspicious character. If they don't have her turn out to be a Black Widow, the Reaper's neice, or something along those lines they're missing a great opportunity. That said, Eleven, I'll try to keep an open mind. GB

Eleven said...

To continue - this Beth thing has only reinforced my belief that it's no longer about the show. When subtext, metatext, interviews and spoilers take precedence over what's CLEARLY HAPPENING ON SCREEN, then the writers don't have a chance in hell.

Sub/Metatext is the lifeblood of interpretation, but only when the TEXT still exists. W/O the text, everything else is absolutely useless. Might as well be talking about a blank page.

And to people equating dissenters with haters - saying something negative is not hating.

Eleven said...

GB - to me, she is as suspicious as a normal woman who mustered some courage to go talk to an attractive man she met at the park/pool. That's all. I find her charming and funny - i can't make any more deductions simply because she hasn't been onscreen enough.

We'll agree to disagree. And to be honest, i've had quite enough of the speculation around the character. I liked her well enough and loved the side of Hotch (the S1 Hotch) she brought out, but i think the debate around the 10mins of screen time has given me an ulcer. As a Hotch fan, i am tired of the complaints. Just as a Morgan fan would be if this happened with Tamara.

Anonymous said...

Agreed. However, this is a TV show, and a mystery one at that. Part of the fun is looking for clues and guessing what the writers might have in mind, or up their sleeve. No hard feelings if they outwit me. I expect we'll all survive regardless of what takes place. Just the same, advice for ol' Hotch: Stay alert, stay alive. GB

Anonymous said...

AND - Apologies for contributing to the ulcer. GB

Anonymous said...

Erica Messer said when the wedding spoilers came out that it would be JJ/Will or Garcia/Kevin. So I think that a Hotch/Beth wedding is out of the question.

Anonymous said...

Eleven,

Before the season started show said that we will be seeing more of the agents lives and to be honest with Rossi: his ex-wife comes in one episode and says that she's dying, then in the next she's dead. JJ: her son was sick and she wasn't there with him and will. Garcia: Her telling Kevin that she didn't want to get married. And with Reid and Morgan: there's nothing, But it focused on Hotch and Beth's "budding relationship".

My main issue is the writing on the show I don't have a problem with them showing another side to the agents, but at least show it equally instead of showing one more than the other. And if I can be really honest the writing sucks so that's where the focus should really be.

Anonymous said...

Don't pop a gasket quite yet, Anon. Let's see how this thing plays out. No sense in everyone getting an ulcer. GB

Anonymous said...

The focus on team interaction and profiling is what set Criminal Minds apart from average TV shows….romantic storylines indicate to me a lack of creativity in writing.
I understand all the varying points of view expressed here…mine is very simple…even if a plot with Hotch and his new love interest, only take two minutes of screen time, here and there…I would still prefer that those few minutes be devoted to team interaction. The show is about profiling, it would have been interesting to delve deeper into the minds of the agents…..this does not mean giving them a simplistic romance so that we can see them smile, a romance does not show the complexity of Hotch’s character. Let’s talk about the profiling or rather lack of profiling...what CM is about now, is a shocking level of gratuitous violence sans the heart and soul of what used to be CM….since last season the show has basically been a display of senseless debauched violence.
This year we’ve seen a shift in the tone of the show, to less profiling and less in-depth insights into psychological disorders, to superficial team-interactions….the showrunner and writers have to take action to restore the credibility of CM.

Biz

Pat said...

Biz, I totally agree with you. I like to know a little bit more about our team's lives as well, but I prefer it to be more in context with the case. I think a good example is what happened a few years back with Reid. He sees Ryan Phillips gunned down by Jack Vaughn in Third Life. Then in A Higher Power, he presents the idea that the victims and the unsub may have been members of anonymous support groups. Next we see him in Elephant's Memory and find out that Ryan's death still haunts him and he goes to the BCC for help, finally giving us some closure on the Dilaudid story while the case brings about some bitter memories from his past and sparks in him a certain kinship with the unsub. It's a small arc, if you will, something learned in one episode leading effortlessly into another and in the end we've found out quite a bit about Reid but it has always been somehow wrapped in with the case and not an addendum to it. This is the kind of writing I miss.

Blue Sunflower said...

Mary O said...
I have to say, that what really disappoints me is the fans' reactions. We ask for more personal information on the team members and when it comes, we b*tch because it's not the way we would have done it. I come here every week and read the responses and most of what I see are people complaining about how lame the show has become. Well, if you hate it that much, why are you still watching? Shows must evolve and changes happen, just like life. We may not like them all, but that's the facts. I have a feeling those same people would be complaining if nothing had changed and then they would be upset because we weren't seeing the personal side of the team.

I personally have really enjoyed this season and can't wait for #8! I like learning about the team members and seeing them as humans, not just members of a team who do nothing but work. Sure, there are things I would personally change but you can't please everybody!

Keep up the good work CM and I can't wait to watch every new episode.


Because this needs to be repeated. A LOT. I've always been annoyed by the haters response "we're people who care about the show and hate seeing it go downhill" completely ignoring the fact that what they're expressing is an opinion only. Not everyone agrees the writing sucks, the characters are out of character, the show's going downhill, yada yada yada. I'm a nit-picker extraordinaire, and I really haven't seen much wrong with this season. It's actually nice they've corrected the problems of LAST season.

Anyhoo, liked the episode, but not the acting. LOL'ed at Morgan and Kevin.

Blue Sunflower said...

Eleven said...
Eleven said...

GB - to me, she is as suspicious as a normal woman who mustered some courage to go talk to an attractive man she met at the park/pool. That's all. I find her charming and funny - i can't make any more deductions simply because she hasn't been onscreen enough.


I know. The "stalker" label for Beth has me scratching my head. So she watched a guy before asking him out. If anyone remembers, Hotch basically "stalked" Haley in much the same way before asking HER out.

Anonymous said...

That would be persuasive if normal (whatever that means) rules and regulations applied. But this is the land of mystery fiction. Here one must expect, and be alert for, twists, turns, reverses, double-crosses, and red herrings. What does that writer have in store? Who knows what evil lurks in the heart of that innocent gesture? That's where the fun and entertainment lies. Anything's possible. GB

Anonymous said...

Who are the real "haters" here: those who express critical opinions or CM, or those who call them names?

Henceforth: Anon Q - BTW thanks to whomever came up with the easily Anon solution!

Anonymous said...

*sorry "of" not "or" -- Anon Q

HSG said...

Pat
You said it spot on.

Anonymous said...

I'm going to try something with the next new episode. I believe there are some valid points on all sides of this lively discussion of the state of the show this season. My preference lies with the more traditional stories of earlier seasons, but obviously there is a fan base for the newer elements we have observed. In an experiment of "open mindedness", I am going to look at the next episode in two distinct components: 1. the prologue and epilogue which, as the newer episode formula has developed, seem to deal with personal as opposed to professional subjects. 2. the main story, which deals with the crime solving/profiling subject. Since there is no necessary connection between those elements they can stand alone as almost separate stories about the same characters. I am going to try to consider each component on its own merits separate from the other component. Might be an exercise in futility. Could be fun. Could be enlightening. What it amounts to is that I really don't care what team members do on their own time as long as they are part of a good entertaining base story. My take is not universally held. There may be room to have it both ways to a degree in this new episode formula. We'll see - maybe. GB

Eleven said...

Pat and Biz - i agree with you regarding the tone of the show and the simplistic writing. I don't think it is a problem of plot; rather an issue with the telling of the tale. Romance per se is neither wrong for CM; nor must it be silly. But CM has had a tendency, in the past 2 seasons, of circumventing the complicated issues and leapfrogging to a neat resolution. I don't think a "budding romance", as anon some ways above said, is any less LEGITIMATE than a relationship that ends in death or a breakup, but i do acknowledge there is a problem of tone. Much as i like Beth, i would have appreciated the storyline a little more had there been more on Hotch dealing with things post 100. However, this is only an opinion. I said the same thing about Carolyn - a problem of pacing. Had there been a gap of 3/4 episodes between her appearance and her death, the end would have been more impactful. I also feel the same way about the JJ/Reid conflict - the pasta party wasn't what i was looking for. Garcia/Morgan/Kevin - IDK what i feel about that, really. It could have been much more complex, but it only reminded me of highschool. JJ/Will didn't even take off.

I'm uncomfortable with the "why should hotch get a romance"? i can also say why should Reid get Dilaudid? Every character has her/his own story that is as legitimate as someone else's. Do i wish they would be told differently - yes, i do. But i'm happy for each character getting something different.

I do like my hotch of old, dark and complex. I like happy hotch, too; but the real problem, in my humble opinion, is the simplification of potentially complex narratives, including the profiling. Looking forward to Clemente and Morgan, though.

Also, does anyone else feel that the acting, too, has been slightly monchromatic of late?

Eleven said...

Pat and Biz - i agree with you regarding the tone of the show and the simplistic writing. I don't think it is a problem of plot; rather an issue with the telling of the tale. Romance per se is neither wrong for CM; nor must it be silly. But CM has had a tendency, in the past 2 seasons, of circumventing the complicated issues and leapfrogging to a neat resolution. I don't think a "budding romance", as anon some ways above said, is any less LEGITIMATE than a relationship that ends in death or a breakup, but i do acknowledge there is a problem of tone. Much as i like Beth, i would have appreciated the storyline a little more had there been more on Hotch dealing with things post 100. However, this is only an opinion. I said the same thing about Carolyn - a problem of pacing. Had there been a gap of 3/4 episodes between her appearance and her death, the end would have been more impactful. I also feel the same way about the JJ/Reid conflict - the pasta party wasn't what i was looking for. Garcia/Morgan/Kevin - IDK what i feel about that, really. It could have been much more complex, but it only reminded me of highschool. JJ/Will didn't even take off.

I'm uncomfortable with the "why should hotch get a romance"? i can also say why should Reid get Dilaudid? Every character has her/his own story that is as legitimate as someone else's. Do i wish they would be told differently - yes, i do. But i'm happy for each character getting something different.

I do like my hotch of old, dark and complex. I like happy hotch, too; but the real problem, in my humble opinion, is the simplification of potentially complex narratives, including the profiling. Looking forward to Clemente and Morgan, though.

Also, does anyone else feel that the acting, too, has been slightly monchromatic of late?

Anonymous said...

@ eleven

I get the feeling that the writer's this season really don't know the CM characters. It's like they only had a working knowledge and therefore has caricatured certain characters i.e Garcia... The teams' chemistry is either one-dimensional or it falls flat.

Eleven said...

I wouldn’t go so far as to say that, Anon. Each character is, after all, an interpretation, both from an authorial perspective and from the actor’s. I think what’s key is the audience. I don’t know what the ratings mean – CM continues to do well. Has it seen its worst ratings recently? Yes, but so have other shows on Wednesday. Moreover, it is a seven-year-old show—there will be a few ups and downs. I am not equipped to interpret ratings but believe the PTB do actually know what they are doing. This could mean that maybe a particular faction of the audience has stopped watching. It could also mean it has gained newer viewers. These newer viewers may not see the characters in the same way that us “older” ones do. As a fellow fan once said, we may not be the target audience any more. But here’s my concern - I’m sure there are CM fans who also love “Castle”, but maybe they watch the two with clearly differentiated expectations; ie, they don’t expect to derive enjoyment out of the two in the same way or want to see the same things on both shows. So if the new direction that the tone/writing is taking is a way to replicate for CM the success of, say, NCIS, then the logic is flawed, in my opinion. It may not be immediately evident in the ratings, but in the long term the CM people may move elsewhere to derive the specific/special kind of pleasure that they think CM can no longer provide.

I also find that the less I read around the show, the more I enjoy what’s actually happening on screen. CM has a pretty woeful record of living up to spoilers/speculation. As for the acting - Morgan is the only one I find who seems varied and shaded. Unlike Garcia who seems inconsistent in her response to the cases and consistent in her plaintive, quirky paranoia. Hotch during a case has been more or less relentlessly frowny. Almost everything Reid says seems to end in an interrogative tone. It’s just my opinion, though, and probably has something to do with my current revision of S1 and 2 :-)

Anonymous said...

Voices (keyboards?) of reason above albeit from different points of view. I believe that many of us "older" fans do sense a change in our "old" characters. If that were not the case, the outside the workplace elements probably wouldn't be as much of a concern. That's why I am going to try looking at the base profiling story and the personal story as completely stand alone components. If the characters remain true and strong, theeir "personal lives" won't matter or will be a development. I'm afraid this development has diluted the characters. Therein is the problem, or at least perceived problem. If the characters are understood and respected we can accept, or ignore, their outside lives. Sort of like in the real world, I suppose. One opinion of one fan. GB

Eleven said...

GB - i said this somewhere else, probs a long time ago, but here's a thought - with the shenanigans of S6, i think the actors were really happy to have the whole team/their freinds back (don't know if they anticipated PB's departure). And somehow, their real-life relief and joy 'mis-translated' onto the screen. So instead of an interaction between Rossi and Reid, we have one between Joe and Matthew. I use this pairing only as an example. I've noticed this with Paget and Thomas as well, and between Joe and Thomas. While it may be natural progression for the BAU team to be closer, they just seem too much into each other's business than i'm comfortable with. I still struggle with how the team cornered Rossi in "Epilogue", albeit as concerned friends. But whoa, let him have a moment there, ladies and gents! And have cases ever been interrupted before by pranks, gossip (Rossi & Prentiss) and Garcia's 67 messages/calls?

i'm not trying to bring the show down - it's still the only show i watch - actually the only TV i watch, and i enjoy it despite my niggles. I do think they're trying hard - i'm more interested in digging up the reasons behind my own discomfort and change in response to CM.

zagi said...

Eleven said...

"...While it may be natural progression for the BAU team to be closer, they just seem too much into each other's business than i'm comfortable with. I still struggle with how the team cornered Rossi in "Epilogue", albeit as concerned friends. But whoa, let him have a moment there, ladies and gents! And have cases ever been interrupted before by pranks, gossip (Rossi & Prentiss) and Garcia's 67 messages/calls?..."

I totally agree with you about those two points. Interrupting cases for pranks and such is so not CM but rather NCIS. And the reason why I don`t take that show seriously. Also being too much into each other`s business is OOC for most of the characters and I wonder how that will be handled in the next episode. I really hope they don`t have Morgan open up to super profiler JJ or the whole team because that is something Morgan would never do.

Eleven said...

I want to feel my age (;0)) watching CM - not 18yrs old all over again

PS: Still too young for tg, though. Yikes :-D

Anonymous said...

Looks like Eleven and Zagi are on to something. Earlier Eleven noted that everything must flow from "the text". I hope I used that correctly. Anyway, for whatever reason, there has been some loss of text perhaps this year. Maybe because of the characters, actors, writers, producers, or who knows what combination of those or other factors. As the show begins to refind or refine its text a lot of concerns may vanish. Nothing wrong with jokes, pranks, miscues, flirtations, and on and on. We probably engage in those all the time - but within context of the day and situation, even in some trying or bizarre situations. We could all give a boatload of examples most likely. However, imagine team father Hotch or team slightly eccentric uncle Rossi administering a head slap to get Reid's attention (ala NCIS's Gibbs). Or imagine Hotch engaging in gallows humor (ala CSI's Grissom or the reincarnation in CSICheers's D.B.). Works in those shows because they are what they are. CM is something else. It strayed a bit, and it's now finding a new footing. Come to think of it a head slap. . . nah, sorry. Character and text - that's where the writers need to look for the answers. I like NCIS. It's often sophomoric, but it doesn't pretend not to be. I tried to watch Castle, but I couldn't figure out what it was trying to be. Sorry, Eleven. It has its fans; I'm just not one of them. I enjoy these discussions. It does help provide con"text". I thought some of the things (changes) I was noticing about the show were just me. Understanding them and getting perspectives is worthwhile in my opinion. No haters - just fans. GB

Eleven said...

I can't watch Castle for more than one episode in four months. I haven't seen enough of NCIS to know about Gibbs (sorry, NCIS fans). I NEED to watch CM, like my system needs caffeine in the morning. Don't feel that with any other show. So i can SENSE what i feel is "wrong" or at least off-kilter with CM these days - not often that i can express myself in words.

Anonymous said...

It's over simplistic perhaps, but these characters are pretty mature in TV-years. We know them. They have to drive the show. The writers can pick a plot and set the stage, but the characters have to be who they are. They can't be forced to do things they wouldn't naturally do. If they are, it has a feel of not making sense. Some recent events have a contrived, as opposed to natural, feel. Characters, just like real life counterparts develop and can be unpredictable; but they do have core personae. Can't tinker with core personae and not draw some ire. GB

Eleven said...

Yep, GB, i have had this feeling for a while now - a few problems with the acting. The magicall difference/boundaries between Hotch and TG, for example, or between Rossi and Joe are becoming slightly blurred. In a way old in TV years equals a tad jaded?

Anonymous said...

I realize what I am about to say may be heresy in some quarters, but here goes. I don't know about jaded, but I do know that cast changes, handled well, are probably necessary and healthy. Iknow everyone wants to protect his or her characters, but stagnation (jaded?) is no good. I don't think any character is indispensable. I have used M*A*S*H as an example. Several major cast changes over the years. Each in context, and each allowed new offshoots of the core situation. There a military unit undergoes changes in regular course. An FBI unit is no different in that sense. I'd like to see Hotch get a directorship. It could work and provide some new opportunities. I'd like to see Morgan command the team. It could work and he could become more than just the team big brother. Rossi was not a Gideon clone. Prentiss was not Greenaway. In fact Prentiss went from Strauss spy to team mother. I know family references are not really exact, but there is that similar dynamic. In any event, each character is unique but not essential to the life of the unit. This should be the bumper sticker: Hotchner is NOT Gibson! GB

sf81387 said...

I haven't noticed any issues with the acting, they're doing the best that they can with what they're being given. I don't know how anyone could've watched Thomas Gibson go from stern Unit Chief, to harrassed friend, to uncomfortable boyfriend in the making in one episode and suggest that the actors are becoming complacent. As I've said before negativity is contagious and it takes on a life of it's own and begins to blurr our vision of what we're really seeing on screen, which is why it's never a good idea to let yourself be drawn into "the trend" for very long.

You don't like the storylines fine. You don't like the side stories fine. But let's back off of the actors. When they are given something other than standard profiling dialogue to deliver they do deliver....all of them.

Oh, and the day Morgan takes over the team as Unit Chief is the day this fan turns the channel for good. I absolultely hated that short run of episodes in Season 5 and never want to see it again. Morgan was stale and stiff and boring to watch and everything felt off kilter. This is Hotch's team and that should never change, just as Penelope never should've taken over JJ's duties. After almost two seasons it still feels wrong. JMO

Eleven said...

Sf, i was not at all referring to juggling of the cast.

Anonymous said...

I think that was directed at my thoughts on the possibility of Hotch and Morgan being promoted. Those might be natural, and realistic, moves which could open story possibilities without changing the characters. Hotch as a director with added responsibility and authority? Same for Morgan as team commander? The idea being that changes don't have to be negative and can still maintain the integrity of the show and characters - if changes (of any type) are consistent with the characters. GB

Anonymous said...

I agree, Morgan as unit chief in S5 was just wrong, his character changed overnight into someone else and when he was no longer unit chief the old Morgan was back.

I think Morgan is the only character on CM that the writers don't have a clue what to do with. First they have him still in his office doing consults for Hotch, and now they are turning him into some kind of super training officer, example Prentiss and JJ, and now i guess they will have him giving Reid genius lessons or writing Rossi next book.

I like the Morgan of old, he was fun, The Morgan S5 onwards i don't like. he turning into some kind of super hero.

Sorry, i don't mean to upset any Morgan fans.

Eleven said...

I do understand the potential dangers that Sf was alerting us to, and I apologise if I inadvertently suggested the actors had become complacent – that was not my intention. I was only mulling over a few differences I have noticed in the acting while re-viewing S1/2. And as Sf said, it is probably merely a function of the material they have to work with. I also understand the concern that what I said could easily be twisted into a narrative of exclusion (let’s get rid of so and so, etc). So again, to be absolutely clear, this wasn’t my intention. The cast and crew work very hard and I would never belittle their contribution or their commitment to CM, and therefore to us as viewers.

Re Morgan – I’ve liked him very much this season; S6 was a little reductive for me.

zagi said...

"Anonymous said...

I think Morgan is the only character on CM that the writers don't have a clue what to do with. First they have him still in his office doing consults for Hotch, and now they are turning him into some kind of super training officer, example Prentiss and JJ..."

I am sure the writers perfectly know what to do with Morgan. It seems to me more that they have absolutely no idea what to do with Rossi and lately also with Reid. And this season the writers also have no idea at all what to do with Prentiss. Which makes me wonder if that is one reason for Paget leaving the show because all of Prentiss usual scenes are now JJ scenes.

Morgan has always been teaching self defense at the FBI academy. That was established in season one. So him training JJ and Prentisss is the logical choice. And that Morgan would continue doing some of Hotch`s work and take over some of his late hours was also explained in the show. Hotch would hardly be able to train for a thriathlon and have enough time to spend with his son and girlfriend if nobody would help him with his workload. I am also sure that all of the agents do consults when they are not away on a case and they also are all writing and teaching in some way or other. Because that is what the BAU does.

Oh and by the way, I prefer dark and angry Morgan to fun Morgan. If I wanted fun I would watch NCIS.

Eleven said...

Agree with you re Morgan, Zagi - i find his character shaded and granular this season as in S1-5.

However, i don't see the Prentiss/JJ flip that you're talking about. I don't see JJ as "super profiler" either - i haven't seen this on screen; i don't see them pushing it. She has always been confident (she had valuable contributions to the profiling even before she was one), but her curiosity is in line with that of someone learning the ropes.

zagi said...

Eleven,

the problem I have with JJ is that they made her a litte too awesome IMO and somehow still often somebody (of the team)has to tell the audience how awesome JJ is. She was of course valedictorian and the best agent ever who took the profiler classes. She is a size zero and is still able to fight off a guy three times her size. She shot three dogs who were attacking her in a dark barn. She was the best media liasion and the new girl Jordan was of course failing doing JJ`s job. And to me it seems as if JJ has gotten most of Prentiss`s scenes. She even talks and walks like Emily. I wonder if they, should they get somebody to replace Emily, take away all those scenes from JJ and give them to the new girl and then don`t know how to write for JJ. I hope they don`t replace Prentiss because it is obvious that the team has too many profilers.

Oh and JJ is the perfect mother and Will, even though he is the stay at home dad, does not know what to do when their son is ill. They should give JJ some flaws and let her make some mistakes. Then she would seem more realistic to me.

Anonymous said...

The team is made up of overachievers in one way or another. I think it would be wise not to replace Prentiss immediately and allow the team dynamics to settle in a little. The writers wouldn't have to figure out how to introduce a new character into the mix, at least right away; and it would provide an opportunity to showcase more of each existing character. Not the least of which should be the showcasing of the team commander using his skills to make necessary adjustments, plans, and organizations within the team. GB

Eleven said...

Putting it like that, Zagi, one can make that claim for any of the characters. Curious to know what you think the other characters' flaws are, as they are being portrayed this season.

Also hardly a perfect mother, just one that's struggling to balance things, exactly as Hotch/Haley had tried to do and failed. Perhaps this one works because people are different and that Will hasn't reached his breaking point; maybe JJ jas a bit more time for her family than Hotch had. Could be a million different reasons - trying to fit one character into the co-ordinates of another doesn't work for me, because everyone is different. If there has been a trend towards prettifying and sanitising, it has happened with all the characters - i don't really see any bias in this regard.

zagi said...

My problems with too perfect JJ are not only because of this season. Her being a great profiler just added to them. I guess it became too much for me when she was introduced as terrorist expert in "Lauren" in season 6. She was always too awesome. She never ever made a mistake (as far as I remember)while the others all made their mistakes during the seasons. Like Hotch and Rossi not noticing Foyet was the Reaper when they interviewed him, Reid not being able to prevent the father from killing the suspect in "The third life" or Morgan not being able to talk Flynn into releasing Ellie Spicer (which JJ of course was able to). JJ seems just too perfect. But nobody is perfect and that is good IMO. I like my characters realistic.

And there this season has a problem for me. They are all too perfect and too happy and too much into each others business.

CM is still by far my favorite TV show though and I love ALL seven main characters and also Kevin and Will and Beth.

Anonymous said...

Eleven,

You mentioned earlier in the postings that someone didn't like Beth and thought that she was a "stalker". You explained how she wasn't a stalker exactly, and you said that Hotch was the same thing to Haley. How is that?

If I can remember clearly in the episode "THE FISHER KING" he said that he was going to that school for 2 years and then he stubbled into a rehersal for the theatre club. That is when he saw Haley for the first time, and then decided to audition for the same play she was doing just to be close to her. I am not understanding how Hotch was stalking her, he didn't know she was going to that school until he saw her. He never told her that "he's been watching her" unlike Beth did when he was training.

With Beth the way she approached him seemed very creepy and unnatural, and that is why I don't like her she came off creepy, and to me her overall character I just don't like. She just doesn't seem like Hotch's type at all, I understand that they wanted her to be the opposite of Haley but honestly to me his relationship with Haley was more natural than his relationship with Beth are.

Personally I hope that him and Beth break up in the beginning of season 8 I really don't like seeing them together. Let Reid, Morgan or Rossi have a chance at love if Erica wants to continue to focusing on their personal lives rather than what the show is really about. Just me they need it more than Hotch does.

Eleven said...

I didn't say anything about Hotch stalking Haley.

As for stalker/not stalker/lovely/ugly/right/wrong - let's please leave it at that because "for those who believe, no proof is necessary; for those who don't believe, no proof is possible". Personally i hope this debate comes to an end.

And i don't want to get into who "needs" love/focus more.