Friday, December 09, 2011

Spoiler Thread: The Bittersweet Science


“The Bittersweet Science” – The BAU team investigates a string of brutal bludgeonings in Philadelphia and is led to the city’s boxing scene in search of the killer. Also, Hotch makes a connection with an attractive runner as they both train for a triathlon, on CRIMINAL MINDS, Wednesday, Dec. 14 (9:00-10:00 PM, ET/PT) on the CBS Television Network. Guest stars include Emmy Award winner Charles S. Dutton (“Roc”) as boxing trainer Tony, Shawn Hatosy (“Southland”) as boxer Jimmy, and Bellamy Young (“Dirty Sexy Money”) as Beth, an art curator and runner who strikes up a friendship with Hotch.

Talk about this episode in the comment...

Careful in case you haven't watched the episode yet... comments might contain ***SPOILERS***

146 comments:

sf81387 said...

Awww...I love the sneak peek. I'm really looking forward to this episode. It's so nice to see Hotch smiling and watching Rossi ribbing him about his new triathlon training partner should be great fun! LOL

Hotch fan said...

Looking forward to this episode but everytime I think of my Hotch with someone else, I get this gut wrenching feeling in my stomache. yes I know he is a fictional character but a girl can dream and be possessive anyway!
That said, Hotch looked damn good in the sneak peak in those running shorts and he was so sweet and charming. But I don't like Beth. Cute scene, will never like her and I doubt she will be long term. Probably just a few eps and then it'll be done with. After all, Hotch will definitely have much more on his plate with Strauss out of commission for a while and I just don't see it happening.
Besides, Bellamy Young looks like she may be a busy actress and won't have time to stick around.

Anyway, Morgan, Prentiss and Reid are the ones who should really get a love interest. Reid hasnt had one since Lila from S1 and Morgan has never really had one.

"Botch" won't last. Yes, that is what I am calling it because it will eventually be botched. I love scenes with Hotch and Jack though. So adorable.

Anonymous said...

Ha Botch!

I like that. It should be botched. I don't like Beth. She seems annoying and I just read the spoiler scoop on EW. I feel like gagging. I don't want to see screen time with this chick.
Hotch yes, but no love interests. I would be fine if she faded away. Please, Botch must fade away.

Tiffany said...

I am already in love with that clip and I don't even have sound on my computer! Holy Hotness factor notwithstanding! Absolutely can't wait to see this episode. They don't even have to go on a case. I'd be perfectly happy if they spent the entire 42 minutes showing Hotch flirting. Beth is adorable and I have a feeling she WILL be around to stay... :)

Eleven said...

Yes, please let her stick around for ever - she seems a ton of fun! And Hotch is looking so good, and awkward, i can't wait to see it unfold....And if this is his little chance at happiness since his divorce back in S3, i thank thee, God! Bellamy Young is very pretty and vivacious in this - wish the very best!

Jane said...

I have read a lot of posts around the net and most people don't seem to want Beth to stay. I don't want Beth to stay either and I doubt she will.
I don't like her personality for Hotch, I mean, pigtails? She seems like a ... not so great fit for Hotch.
Hotch did look so HOT in the clip and he is such a sweet flirt. I like how he jokingly accused Beth of practising surveillance. But i doubt it will last. yeah right.
And I would also like to see Hotch's brother come back. There are other things I want to see about Hotch before a love interest. No love interest for Hotch is fine. Its a temporary thing I bet.

Just saying said...

I am going to copy and paste an article that I completely agree with:

"So what is coming up in Hotch's love life? Well, according to EW, it's not so much a love life as it is just the two "training for a marathon together." That could always change, but at the same time, it's not like Hotch's job affords him too much personal time and what time he does have, he spends with his son. Still, he does need to think of himself too, and perhaps one day, they will introduce a new love interest for him that will stick if Young doesn't return.

Meanwhile, at least this Criminal Minds storyline is going to bring some humor from Rossi to Hotch, as Gibson did say, "There's a great scene where Rossi is egging him on. He says to him at on point, 'When you're on the bike ride with her, make sure you wear a helmet.' It's a nice little double entendre." Oh, that sounds like it should be a humorous scene"

I think that Beth is just temporary and is an experiment for Hotch. Most Hotch fans wither want him with Prentiss or they want him for himself.
A new love interest doesn't really fit into Hotch's life. But it is fun to watch him flirt. He can flirt with me anytime and I would be happy to practice surveillance on him!

Just saying said...

So for all you...Botch people, by Botch I am assuming that supporting Botch means that you are not supporting Beth and Hotch, in which case I am a Botch fan because I do not support Beth with Hotch, anyhow, this piece of news should come as a relief for you all because it does for me.

gubegirl said...

Oh, yeah, His Hot-chness is looking mighty fine...but so is Beth - whata cutie! And for him to jump in there as she walks away and say that he could call her -
WOW! Huge! Go, Hotch!

I'm with Eleven, I want to see Hotch in this arena, re:less of where it goes, it's different and very appealing to me.

Would love for our others to get some personal att'n. at some point, too...other than from just us! Hey, what can I say? They deserve some love - we don't need to see all the details...just continue to tantalize us with tidbits. And see our fave characters behave differently once in awhile will only hold our interest longer. Just MHO.

Eleven said...

Yes, Gubegirl - i have loved AH in sickness - i want to love him in health - and i do feel good about these two :-) Very excited - hope the episode is good, though - it won't mean anything if the rest of it is flat!

Anonymous said...

I dont like Beth. Why does she get to see him at "the pool" and we dont? I want to see Hotch swimming and stuff.
Not a fan of Beth. But the line at the end, What else could Hotch be in that suit?
I suppose a lawyer, politician, businessman,etc. Plenty of reasons to wear a suit.

sf81387 said...

Most Hotch fans wither want him with Prentiss or they want him for himself.

I really hate blanket statements like this. Most fans could probably care less about Hotch's personal life and what I've seen on the internet is a handful of shippers crying foul and doing their best to convince the internet world that they speak for the majority. What I've also seen is a whole lot of acceptance of the storyline from fans who don't have a personal agenda. We know she's back for at least episode 7.14 and hey if Hotch has a new friend that makes him smile then it's all good. Why people have to assume it's the only relationship he's ever going to have again and freak out and become hateful and make up stupid childish names like "Botch" (I've always found those goofy names shippers use to be childish and annoying) I'll never understand. You'd think if people were a fan of Hotch they'd just be happy that he gets to be happy for a change. Oh, and the idea that someone doesn't like Beth because they want Hotch for themselves is kind of creepy, not to mention weird IMO, but maybe I'm the one that's weird.

I saw the EW article that mentions the stuff about Rossi and it says she's in for the long run, but just as his training buddy right now, but I missed this part:

That could always change, but at the same time, it's not like Hotch's job affords him too much personal time and what time he does have, he spends with his son. Still, he does need to think of himself too, and perhaps one day, they will introduce a new love interest for him that will stick if Young doesn't return.

Is that a direct quote from someone or is that some writer's personal take on the situation?

Anonymous said...

I have to say -it's nice to see Hotch smiling again and a new love -you go man- E.J.

Just saying said...

sf81387,

I was just stating my personal opinion if you dont like it then thats fine but no need to make fun. Thats immature. He's a fictional character but so what. A girl can always dream.
Yes its nice to see him happy but even without my crush, I dont see Beth in CM for more than a few eps but I guess we'll see.

Also, this quote "That could always change, but at the same time, it's not like Hotch's job affords him too much personal time and what time he does have, he spends with his son. Still, he does need to think of himself too, and perhaps one day, they will introduce a new love interest for him that will stick if Young doesn't return."

This quote is from the EW article i copied and pasted. Its not a fan quote.

Like Jane, another poster, I have also seen many comments about not liking Beth or wanting Hotch to be with Prentiss, so I don't think that that is a blanket statement.
I kind of like Hotch as a single father though, and finding happiness through his son and his job. Not every person, real or unreal, needs a love interest to keep them going. Hotch has proven that he doesnt.
Any love interest for Hotch seems like an unnecessary ploy from the writers. But its an excuse to see the man smile so its alright.
Whatever, I don't think Beth and Hotch, or "Botch" (I dont care, I'll use it) will last.

I would really like to see Reid, Morgan and Prentiss get love interests though. THey are long past overdue. Even Rossi has had more action than them.
The writers always mess something up in the overall storyline though. Anyway, just MHO.
Like it or dont, I'll change my mind when I see fit and right now, I dont see fit.

Just saying said...

I was quoting Hotch fan as well about the girl can dream part, plenty of girls dream.
Too bad Thomas Gibson isnt available. Like Hotch, TG also seems like quite a catch. But TG is happily married with 3 kids. ANd thats great especially in the entertainment business.

Msbekss said...

Pls nooo!!!!! I feel like throwing up already, am a huge Hotly shipper and this just pisses me off....

sf81387 said...

Just saying,

Not making fun just stating my personal opinion. And sorry, any time you suggest that "Most" want something you are making a blanket statement about a large group of people and in this case the blanket statement just isn't true. "Most" Hotch fans don't either want him with Emily or for themselves. Some do, but not most.

Also, that is not a quote from the EW article. That is Meridith Jacobs' personal take on the situation. She's a writer for gather.com. She quotes the EW aritcle in her column and then adds that little bit of personal opinion after the quote.

This is the only thing the EW article says unless I've missed an article some place:

Thomas Gibson wouldn’t spill the specifics when we chatted. But it sounds like she’s in it for the long run, literally. Her character and Hotch are training for a marathon together — and that’s all. For now. The best part? The ribbing Hotch gets from Rossi about the new lady in his life. “There’s a great scene where Rossi is egging him on. He says to him at one point, ‘When you’re on the bike ride with her, make sure you wear a helmet.’ [Laughs] It’s a nice little double entendre.”

I tend to agree with Ms. Jacobs' personal take on the situation, but I also think that Hotch is learning how to make time for himself. The fact that he's trying to participate in a triathalon shows that and hey, maybe it's only 45 minutes a day, but anyone with a hectic job and young children will tell you that even just 45 minutes a day all to yourself is quite therapeutic.

There has been way too much ado over this. It would've been so much better if they'd never hyped it and we just tuned in Wednesday night and there she was. Why can't people just sit back and watch and wait and see what happens? Does anybody really think Hotch is going to fall in love with and marry the first woman he meets after Haley? Okay, it's Hotch so I suppose that's possible, but I think jumping to conclusions and shippers freaking out and bailing on the show when the woman may turn out to be nothing more than the girl that helps him back up on to the horse.....so to speak is a definite over-reaction.

I like what I see so far, but not because I see romantic sparks or anything, but because she seems light and funny and like someone that might be able to get him to lighten up a bit. Hotch could probably use a friend like that.

ali said...

@ Just saying
just a clarification...
This is the exact spoiler from EW:"Can you give me some Criminal Minds spoilers? Do you happen to know how many episodes Bellamy Young will guest-star? Will it be just in episode 10 or are there more? Thanks! — Sofia
Thomas Gibson wouldn’t spill the specifics when we chatted. But it sounds like she’s in it for the long run, literally. Her character and Hotch are training for a marathon together — and that’s all. For now. The best part? The ribbing Hotch gets from Rossi about the new lady in his life. “There’s a great scene where Rossi is egging him on. He says to him at one point, ‘When you’re on the bike ride with her, make sure you wear a helmet.’ [Laughs] It’s a nice little double entendre.”

The quote you used is from Meredith Jacobs, the writer from Gather.com, and is her personal take regarding the above spoiler. It's not a official statement from someone close to the show.

I must say I liked the sneak peak a lot. I find Beath very charming and sweet and I'm all for Hotch going forward with this woman.

I'm a Hotch girl all the way and I certainly don't want him to get involved with Prentiss. This is the only thing (any intra-team romence really) that would make me stop watching the show.

I'mACMer said...

I know that Ed Bernero said from day one that there would be NO inter-team romances. And I believe Erica has stated this also. Case closed.

And I love the sneak peek. Hotch is so hotly akward!! And TG, as always, is just great in pulling the scene off.

Plus, we get Rossi giving Hotch some static!! "He's Italian." LOL Can't wait for Wednesday!!

I'mACMer said...

P.S. I just ran across some internet chatter that said the much bally-hoo'd online petition that would shake the foundation of the EM Exec staff and make them change the story line has a whooping......

70+ signatures.

Given the tens of thousands that signed the online petition to save AJ and Paget, IMHO I find it very difficult to buy the "majority" or "most" CM fans are against Hotch getting a love interest.

I respect every person's opinion. But as sf said, it would be greatly appreciated if those anti-Beth folks would kindly refrain from saying they speak for the majority or most CM fans. Facts are facts.

SandyB03 said...

I have to say I am one of the people who would love to see Hotch and Emily together but I am realistic enough to know that will never happen. Based on the clip I am not a fan of Beth, not because she is potential love interest for Hotch but because I just didn't think the character was written/shown very well. She sounded wrong and odd with her whole, " oh you must be FBI because you wear a suit" thing. Because apparently now one else in DC wear suits, yeah right. I see Hotch with a more demur and sophisticated woman. Beth kind of cam across as sorority girl to me, if she stay I don't hope that they don't keep her like that. Also as a side note, the fans who don't like Emily and Hotch together I have to say you come across as the most rude and condescending commenetrs . You may not like them together or agree with the people who do but there is no need be sarcastic and talk down to the people who do. To each his won it is not like the Hotch and Emily fans are doing anything personal to you, and there are obviously enough of us that TG and the writes takes notice and mention it in a interview.

SandyB03 said...

Also I don't think an online petition is a statement on how many people there are. There can be a lot of people who don't like Beth or the story line but that doesn't mean they would sign a petition or demand the writer change it. It just means they don't like the story line.

Just Saying said...

To clarify,

I did not make any blanket statements because I said that most of what I have READ has been against Beth.
And I did say that the quote was from EW so I dont know why I am being hassled over that!

Anyway, I agree with whoever said that Beth comes off as a sorority girl. And I also agree that this storyline was overhyped like many other CM storylines so I am just going to stop worrying because I know either way Beth wont last.

Not being rude and if I seem like I am sorry.

Thanks

Just Saying said...

Also, I had no idea about any such petition and i wont be signing it whatever my opinion is. Thats just a stupid idea for a petition. The AJ and Paget petition was great because we were trying to save 2 jobs.

zagi said...

IMO this Hotch gets a love interest storyline is totally overhyped and gets way too much attention and promotion.

I am not against Hotch getting a new woman in his life. But I do not watch the show for some love story. I watch the show because it is a show about a team of profilers catching the bad guys. I watch it because it is a dark show with dark charatcers.

Nothing against a few light moments in the show. The characters need happyness and friends and family outside of their job. But the main topic should be the cases and the team working the cases.

I do not want to see more of the Hotch/Beth storyline and Hotch`s personal life than we get to see about JJ`s and Garcia`s family life.

sf81387 said...

I do not want to see more of the Hotch/Beth storyline and Hotch`s personal life than we get to see about JJ`s and Garcia`s family life.

Neither do I and I'm fairly certain we won't see any more of this budding relationship than we ever saw of relationship with Haley or his relationship with Jack.

I think I'm done with this blog though. Last year we had fans hating Seaver without ever giving her chance because they were mad about AJ and Paget and this year we have fans hating Beth without considering even giving her a chance because they had other "plans" for Hotch. I think I'll just go back to enjoying the show without allowing all the online B.S. to become a major buzz kill.

Y'all have a very Merry Christmas!

Teresa H. said...

Huge Hotch/TG fan and if this is handled well I'm all for it. Just because he has a lady friend on screen doesn't mean he can't be mine in my dreams. LOL
From what I saw of the sneak peak I loved Hotch's vulnerability/awkwardness. I have to go find what is obviously the longer version of it with the Rossi scene.

zagi said...

sf81387 , I would be sorry if you stop posting on this blog because even though we don`t agree on many things, I like to read your posts and I appreciate your much-needed voice of reason.

Have a great Christmas!

Anonymous said...

I published a comment a while ago about this blog becoming negative and depressing and that I thought that this may be the reason there are so few commenters here now. Although I thought it was prsented in a polite way, it was deleted. This one may be as well but I think it is something some of you should think about.

Anonymous said...

I think that the blog has so few commentators now because it was on hiatus for quite a while and people probably forgot about it or assumed it was shut down, not because it was of negative comments.
I've read through the comments and people just need to read them carefully because the Just saying and other comments dont seem like they are attacking anyone in particular, just that they dont like the Beth storyline or whatever.
Anyway, this is all fiction and Thomas Gibson is very taken in real life so lets not think about it too much.

gubegirl said...

Good afternoon, y'all.

I see y'all are still talking about the Beth subject and I say, let's just wait and see. I seriously doubt they writers will dwell on this or make anymore of it than they have ever done on any of the characters personal lives. Why all this dither? I am very much looking forward to the show, meeting Beth and seeing the gentler, sweeter side of Hotch which we all know he owns, deep down inside maybe, but it's there. He is a very caring man and I am all for him finding someone to care about besides Jack and his work.

Changing the subject to other eye-candy: let me be the first to say, that Reid looks especially handsome in the pic at the top of this blog with Garcia. My, my. He has come so far; he has always been cute to me, but now he is downright handsome and I think that goes along with his personal growth and maturity (on the show, obviously...hey, maybe in life, too, who knows?)

I also want to tell y'all about an excerpt of a Stephan Lee interview in this weeks's hard copy of the EW that I get but never ordered!

It's in an interview with Patricia Cornwell, the mystery writer who has recently made some modifications to her writing style and they interviewer quieries her about this.

She says "The number one truth that people seem to have forgotten these days is that science doesn't solve crimes, people do."

The interviewer has stated that she is not using as much forensic science in her writing anymore and she goes on to elaborate on her above statement:

"Perfect example: CRIMINAL MINDS, which is one of my favorite shows on TV. It has basically no forensics in it-no autopsies, no magic brushes with things glowing in the dark. It's all psychological. It's the total opposite of CSI, and I think people want that. It's much more human-oriented and less technical."
She goes on to compare the writing to Thomas Harris (Silence of the Lambs) and says, "We're fascinated by monsters - and those who chase them."

I say AMEN! Patricia, you said it all, this is what makes CM stand apart from the other crime procedurals. They don't spend most of their time in the lab with fancy-ass equipment...they are out there in the field at the crime scene, collecting evidence/gaining knowledge to help them know and capture the killer(s).

A side note: her comment about CM beign "human-oriented" I believe is what drew me to the show in the beginning. Again, the personal lives of the characters has always been secondary, but we love those intimate moments between the team members (family to each other) that help us to know them better and that endear them to us.
Side interest Beth included:)

OK. I'm done. Back to the Christmas cards and laundry.

Have a great day everyone!

Pat said...

I don't really have anything against this Beth character and from the scene it's more her approaching Hotch than him hitting on her. I guess the only thing I really have against it, and it's not against the relationship per se, is just that we've been there with Hotch and his relationship with Haley for five seasons. And the fact that a romantic relationship would take what little precious time he has away from Jack. None of the other characters besides Garcia and JJ have gotten a chance to explore any kind of relationship, and the only reason JJ did, I believe is because AJ got pregnant and they had to find a man for her fast. I don't count Tamara Barnes or Lila Archer. I wish before we have Hotch jumping back into the dating scene that someone else would have a chance.

I'm not any kind of team shipper. I agree with EB and EM that it should not happen.

Like gubegirl said, Reid is hot and has grown so much. Perhaps he's grown enough that he could at least have a date. How about some cute chick trying to pick him up at... I don't know... the library! I would love to see Reid's total awkwardness in a situation like that and what MGG could do with it.

So I don't dislike this storyline or the woman, I just wish the others were given a chance instead of the second time around with Hotch.

Eleven said...

Sf - don't leave, please! Here's what we can do - as long as there are no personal attacks, let there be 1,000 different opinions - and you seem to be calmest of us lot :-)

As for me, i'll stick around to see how this season pans out and what people are saying. Petitions and tweeting to BY and tg - well, that's not what i can support even in another universe.

Thanks, Gubegirl, for the Cornwell interview - i enjoy her fiction; not as much as, say, Rankin, but it is fun. You're right, the human element makes CM so good. I hope they can maintain this and that we get more episodes such as last week's.

You know whose love story i'd like to see most? Morgan's. From S6, the writers have not done his character any justice. Here is a compassionate, fiercely loyal, fearless man - and i want to know how he brings those qualities to a serious relationship. Contrary to whaat he says about his halloween honeys and what not, i believe in life he would be one for the long haul. His being a 'player' is just a deflection tactic imo or perhaps brings to life his fear that with his job, he wouldn't be able to protect them. He has seen too much.

anyway, looking forward to Wednesday - it's even making Monday more bearable - it's closer to Wednesday than Sunday :-)

Take care!

Eleven said...

Pat - i think there've always been hints that Reid is hot and very very attarctive to women - heck, everyone tries to pick him up :-) In fact, i think if we hadn't known Hotch looked like tg, and, say, had just read the scripts, we would have thought he was unattractive! Hark back to 'The Tribe' and the ladies' reaction to Sean relative to Hotch. Never has there been any direct or indirect ref to Hotch being good-looking - Morgan gets it all the time, as does Reid. BUT i would squeeze the life out of a solid, serious and complicated relationship b/w Reid+someone - that would be wonderful (of course in small doses, which i hope Hotch/Beth would also be).

Blue Sunflower said...

This whole Beth kevetching reminds me of the "uproar" when it was announced Rossi's first wife was "the love of his life" and people were complaining about continuity. Such a non-starter, considering how it turned out.

Besides, it's realistic for Hotch to start foraying into the world of dating. It's been 3 years since his divorce and 2 years since Haley's death. Hotch should be putting his feet in the water again. Beth doesn't have to be "the one" but it *is* time for Hotch to at least go out on the occasional dinner date.

Not to mention the Beth storyline has a potential to make Hotch actually hold a facial expression - either a grin at how he likes her, or a frown thinking of the angst of moving on feels.

Eleven said...

I actually do understand where the shippers (or people who are against Aaron+Beth) are coming from—it happened with me when I saw the Richard Burton movie “Look Back in Anger” AFTER I had read the play, dissected it to pieces and engaged with the characters at a level that cannot be deemed healthy (:-)). Suffice it to say that Richard Burton was not how I had pictured Jimmy Porter to be, neither in physical characteristics, nor in psychological setup. It was hard, if not impossible, to separate RB from my Head-JP and still think of my original JP in the same way, ever again. So shippers (of all kinds) should be free to feel the way they are and give vent to their ire and passion, considering that in a way the people concerned have precluded all possibilities but that which will be SEEN (unfortunately, for a lot of us, this sense trumps all others). If Beth were to stick around for a while, somebody’s Head-Hotch, if he was to be with anyone else, would by default be cheating on Beth—which is not how many people can see as something Canon-Hotch would do. If for many, shipping is a CREATIVE outlet, then, yes, it would matter very much if they were continued to be bombarded with a very different Canon-Hotch; so if they stop watching, it really is their decision, neither more nor less rational than anyone else’s way of keeping the creative juices flowing. IMHO, subtext tends to be much stronger (and more easily interpreted/subverted/perpetuated/modified) if it doesn’t go against the grain of characterisation or against the tone/visualization of the canon-relationships. Eg, much easier perhaps to ship Hotch or JJ or Penelope with anyone if these characters were unattached (unless one was happy to make them polyamorous in their creative universe – which is fine, too, and perhaps a lot simpler to keep believing in!). And I think this would happen with Emily, Reid, Morgan or Rossi, too.

I do still feel badly about peeps tweeting to tg or BY and saying they were ruining their show. That’s my coupla cents.

Just saying said...

Neither TG or BY are ruining the show and no one should be tweeting that. Personal feelings aside, one one hand yes its fine for Hotch to move on and start dating, on the other hand, Beth just doesnt seem right for him. "the suit" line was just plain stupid and she just seemed kind of immature and overly girl for him. But I gotta say that even Emily has said some stupid stuff and ocassionally JJ. As for Haley and Hotch, nothing against Haley but...I just rewatched 100 and Haley kind of contributed to her own death. She made some stupid mistakes that got her killed, not to say that she deserved dying b/c she didnt but still. Haley should have called Hotch to really make sure if he was dead or not especially if she really loved him and she should've gone to a police station or an FBI office instead of going to her house where anyone can easily find her. Plus, she was told by Hotch to not show any fear and to be strong but IMHO she wasnt either of those things. She was always kind of whiny since the third season and she just started crying uncontrollably in front of Foyet. that's understandable considering her ultimate death but she just stood there and didnt even fight him or try to run or anything. I found her to be weak. But whatever, its all in the wind now.
Of course, Hotch deserves to be happy, but not every one needs a love interest to be happy. Hotch didnt seem to be that into Beth though. He just seemed flattered that someone notcied that he was attractive and he seemed like he wouldnt mind some new company.
I still dont like Beth and have a feeling I still wont like her when her character really unfolds but I doubt she'll be around for more than a few episodes. Also, I just dont really like BY's look...she kind of reminds me of the joker for some reason. I know thats mean and I'm sorry but I cant help it. I did watch some of BY other acting clips on youtube and I dont really like the actress either.
I dont want Hotch to be with Prentiss either but...actually, I think that since Hotch is such and ideal and strong (usually when not OOC) character that it would be really hard to write a permanent love interest for him,or even a temporary one. Hotch is just imperfectly perfect and he deserves to be happy. With his adoarble son.
I would love to see Reid and Morgan get it on though, figuratively.

Anonymous said...

When people watch Dharma and Greg reruns. they must go insane over Jenna Elfman getting to makeup with Thomas Gibson lol

Anonymous said...

I meant makeout with Thomas Gibson! He is such a hunk!

Question... said...

I'm not really feeling Beth as a good fit for Hotch...

Are FBI agents not allowed to say that they work for the FBI? IDK how the AMerican legal/justice system works since I am Canadian.
Is the Justice Department the same thing as the FBI? I didnt understand that part. Clarification would be helpful and appreciated.

zagi said...

While I am not opposed to Hotch finding a new woman in his life generally and have nothing against Beth yet, I agree with those who said it should have been one of the other characters first to get a romance storyline before Hotch gets another one. Hotch already had a storyline about his home life with Haley and Jack and still has it with Jack. It is about time that Reid, Morgan, Prentiss and Rossi get a storyline that shows their life outside of the BAU, be it with a lover or friends or family.

Eleven said...

Zagi - Rossi has had a family arc and a 'love of my life' arc, as have Morgan (family and er can i even mention Tamara and hints of Jordan) and Reid (family and 2 women)- Emily had Doyle (sounds kinda bad relative to the others), Gideon had Sarah, JJ had/has Will and Garcia had/has Kevin and the psycho (sorry - but he was there!). I am intrigued by all their stories. Yes, Hotch's story spanned a longer timeframe, but it was actually '100' where it really took up more 'space' (and mind-space) than the other (comparable) stories. And for me the emotional intensity of '100' is what makes it seem as if we saw too much of Haley when we really didn't. He was the only married person on the team in the first 2.5 years - so yes we did get to see a little more of them - but that, too, was a trope to highlight the home/work divide. I'm not sure the idea of 'he/she hasn't had a story arc in a while so let's give him/her one' in a linear/chronological way is the best way to go about it. It would, i think, seem a lot like when they present their profiles - too 'organised'. But don't get me wrong - i'd be as excited about any of the other characters. I just don't think Hotch's story is as lopsided as it might seem at first glance. As i said before - i would really like a well thought-out Morgan arc - last week's episode was gorgeous and a far cry from the weak characterisation of S6. Also, referring back to people we have met (eg, Lila, Morgan's family) is a great way to keep the momentum going - never hearing of them again makes them less memorable. A prime eg was Carolyn (sp?) - lived and died over 2 consecutive episodes. That doesn't work. 2 episodes are fine, but had it been over at least half a season, it would have been more impactful. And it's not so hard, is it, to have a little sentence here and there to refer back to things? just needs some emotional continuity i think. But anyway, looking forward to what they have in store for us over the next few episodes...

PS: Not saying all the arcs were written equally well/badly - just that they've been around.

zagi said...

Eleven, IMO the Reid/Lila or the Reid/bartender stories are no way story arcs like Hotch/Haley/Jack. Meredith Monroe has been in 13 CM episodes and Cade Owens in 11. Lila was in one episode as was the bartender. Morgan`s family was in one episode and Tamara in two. And there was nothing more between Morgan and Jordan than there was between any other team member and Jordan other than the scene when he didn`t know yet who she was. Rossi`s love of his life was in two episodes . Hotch`s private life has been far more often explored than the other`s. The writers started with it in episode one of the series and are still going on with it and now even add a new character into his life. I would like to see more of any other character`s private life before I see more of Hotch`s.

christyzachman said...

I am looking forward so much to a new episode and to see Hotch (TG) in shorts makes my heart go pitter patter very fast. I am ambivalent about Beth until I see her in the actual episode so I will keep my opinions to myself about it. It is nice to know that Hotch has finally been able to go beyond just being an agent and a father and is doing something for himself. I do hope that the friendship that is going to be explored between him and Beth does not become OOC for him. This is not a man who goes bar-hopping or night clubbing. He would prefer to spend the night home with his son or support members of his team in their endeavors. He is not a lone wolf or prowling viper. If he and Beth do become friendly with each other it will be going to the park or the theater once a month. This man is a homebody except when heworking and I hope they keep that in mind when they write about this friendship. I also hope that they remember that this man has only had one long-term partner in his life and is not a man that will have physical contact or relations with someone that he has just met or has only known for a short while. He is not a wolf or dog who ruts with any bitch in town. This man is a great deal more respectful, thoughtful and needs more from a woman that what she has between her legs. I am trying not to be crude but I really do not appreciate or like that free-flowingness that is sometimes shown in shows of today. I like that Hotch has not jumped into bed or is having physical relations with another woman so soon after his divorce or his ex-wifes death. It shows how much he truly appreciated and loved her. It is a great sign of respect for women.

Just saying said...

It was heavily implied that Hotch had dated Kate from Lo-Fi and Mayhem. Luckily, they didnt had have any kissing scenes, but there was something in the air about those 2 befroe she was killed. I'm sure Hotch and Haley werent together all the way thorugh after high school. They probably broke up or took a few breaks in their relationship at some point like many other couples. Plus, I think that Haley was still cheating on him in S3.

くろ said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anonymous said...

One funny thing about fan's reaction here to this situation is: Didn't many people not-want Reid or Morgan to have love interest because it's "boring storyline" and "they deserve better arc"? Now Beth is in sight and people want Reid or Morgan to have love interest arc before Hotch get? Funny. (I know maybe these people are different from former).

Eleven said...

Zagi - i completely agree with you that there haven't been well-rounded personal stories about the other characters, at least other than for Prentiss (when the writers had their backs against the wall), JJ and Garcia. And of course, there has been quite a bit on Reid's Mum. My only point is that if they do it in sequence, so to speak, it would feel contrived, as much of what has gone down these past two seasons has seemed. And the Haley arc also proves that it doesn't require a lot of screen time to tell a powerful story - 13 episodes over 5 years is great pacing-out. That's why '100' was as potent as it was - because we had come to know her as more than an appendage.

Christyzachman - i don't see Hotch as a perfect, superman-type character. Because we've seen next to nothing of his grief or his way of dealing with it, we don't know how he coped, at least sexually. Everyone has a different approach to grief - we don't know how he approached and overcame it; indeed, we don't know if he has. I prefer the flawed Hotch immensely to the less-nuanced, gun-wielding
superdad hotch - the scenes with Jack, cute and heartwarming as they were (S6/7), to me are a copout - the Hotch of the earlier seasons would have struggled - moreover, he now has more to do at work. The time issue does bother me. And to think all's right with his little boy ('cept for the '25 to life' ref) seems a tad too 'this is tv and Hotch is the good guy'. He IS a good guy, like all the other characters - he just seems to have become a little too perfect and therefore more unidimensional.

I''m curious, Christyzachman - do you consider Morgan or Rossi to be good guys? Or maybe you're not even talking about good/bad at all? i'm not trying to start an argument here - just picking your brains. Thanks

christyzachman said...

To your second question about Morgan and Rossi, both great men who are very different from Aaron Hotchner. These are men who are more focused on proving themselves to others in their actions with others. They do trust others, yes Morgan does trust and places great faith in those that he trusts. Despite his abuse as a child, he also had a great family support which gave him a strong sense of love, compassion and personal strength.
Rossi has so many elements to him that it is difficult to pinpoint his greatest strengths vs. a weakness. I think that at his time in life he wants to be more of a mentor to those young people coming into the agency and helping them exceed expections. I believe that is why he came back and is able to do as well in the team that he does. So many of them are young enough to be his own child (Reid, Garcia,JJ) that his greatest strength is just that.
I adore all the men of the BAU and will discuss more about Reid at another date. But each has strengths that compliment and support each other and that is why the team dynamic is so great.

Eleven said...

Much thanks for clarifying, CZ! Look forward to your analysis of Reid, and i dearly hope they give him something more than the catastrophic headache story that went absolutely nowehere. 'The Big Sea' for Morgan was also such a damp squib.

Just Saying said...

I have to say that I find that the male characters, when written consistently, are great. The female characters have never been that great if you really dissect them, and they've never had great storylines either or consistency. IF AJ hadnt been fired from the show, I doubt she would have come back as a profiler, not that it matters now but still. Emily's spy storyline seemed cool at first but really it was kind of melodramatic and silly in a way. Garcia is usually great, except for becoming the new liason which grates on my nerves and that last scene in Hope when she came into the house and went all hostage negotiator. That is also an example of just how stupid JJ was written up.

christyzachman said...

Hi, eleven

I had started to write about Hotch but lost it and just continued on with Morgan and Rossi.
I am not sure what you mean about Hotch struggling in the earlier seasons. His struggle was still about his wife and son not anyone else. He puts more on himself into his family than anyone else. It's not surprising that he focuses so much on his son when he is not working. There was many an episode in which he visited or phoned his son after the case. In season one, it was important to him to go home every night as soon as possible and loved doing so. He is a homebody man who struggled when he wasn't able to be home with his wife and son.
Hayley and Aaron were married for at least ten years before they had a child. He called her ten times a day and talked to her often, as Rossi said in his first episode. Morgan knew that Hotch talked to Hayley several times a day and encouraged him to contact even when he was not supposed to. Morgan had not met Sean but at least knew of him and knew what he looked like (probably from a photo that Hotch had around somewhere). The women did not know anything him.
I think that it is important to say that Hotch places family first in his life. His son is his greatest priority and importance. He would not jump from one relationship to another relationship quickly. He struggled with being with his son not with the loss of a sexual partner but with the loss of a companion that he could talk with and just release the darkness of his job. I have known men who have loved their spouses so deeply and lived with them for so many years that they would not want another relationship like that quickly. This is a man who would not have shallow feelings and could fall in love again but he is still in love with his dead wife.

Eleven said...

By struggle i mean that it can't be easy for him to be a single father - he has always struggled to find that balance b/w home and work and it has torn him apart. The S6/7 scenes circumvent the struggle and go straight and abruptly to a resolution - this is just my opinion.

Also, i don't see a direct link between sexuality and morality - so i don't really understand how sleeping w/ someone would jeopardise his moral life. Further, 'too soon' or 'not soon enough' vary with an individual's response to grief.

Hotch fan said...

I know that Erica Messer said that this season would mark a new beginning for Hotch, but a new love interest seems like an unwise choice right now. Plus, this Beth chick doesnt even seem like Hotch's type, or a good fit for Hotch.
And Hotch does not strike me as the type to have a string of one night stands or if he does, then that is one hell of a coping mechanism. I don't think he's moved past Haley's death yet. They have never even shown a single way of how he's coping with Haley being gone now.
hotch also has a lot on his plate, enough so that with 2 commanding authoritative postions and his personal life with his sone, plus his 45 minutes of training for his FBI triathlon, where the hell is a love interest supposed to fit in? This is all enough to just push Hotch over the deep end IMO, just when he's becoming content again too.
No, I don't think Beth will fit in and i dont want her too. No offense, but Bellamy Yound doesnt even have good chemistry with Thomas Gibson. She seems too "sorority girl" like someone else said above in one of the earlier posts. I just don't see it.
but this storyline may just be another one of CM's overhyped storylines, and if it is then this is one overhype I am way glad about. Hopefully Hotch and Beth are just training for a triathlon and then she dissappears. Cuz i dont see it.

zagi said...

regarding Morgan

christyzachman said...

"Despite his abuse as a child, he also had a great family support which gave him a strong sense of love, compassion and personal strength."

I agree with you that Morgan has a strong sense of love, compassion and personal strength. But I don`t think he had a great family support.

His mother and sisters loved him, yes. But they did (could) not support him. They could not support him through the sexual abuse because they didn`t know of it. His mother did not get him out of his problems with the gangs and the police but send him right into the hands of his abuser. And why did Morgan, James and all the other children let Buford abuse them. They did it because they wanted to get their families out of the ghettos, to support their families. These were young boys who lost their father because the father was dead or in prison and and it was the boys who supported their families. It was not the families who supported the boys. The boys had to be the strong ones for their mothers and brothers and sisters.

regarding Hotch

Eleven said...

"He IS a good guy, like all the other characters - he just seems to have become a little too perfect and therefore more unidimensional."

Eleven, I agree with you on that. Hotch has become a little too perfect lately. He raises a perfect little genius son even though he is away for his job most of the time, trains for a triathlon, juggles two jobs and what was he doing in Pakistan (is he suddenly also a military expert ?). He still is unit chief which not only consists of the work on the cases but also requires a lot of time for the bureaucratic and political part of the job. The writers said in a chat that Morgan has taking on a lot of Hotch`s paperwork and late hours. That would leave Hotch more time for Jack when they are not on cases but since Hotch had taken over parts of Strauss`s job he still would have to work long hours. Since Strauss is away on rehab now Hotch again has to take over her job and that at a time when a new woman comes into his life. I hope the writers give us a realistic explanation how Hotch is able to handle all that.

Eleven said...

I agree with you about Morgan, Zagi, and Hotch fan's comment made me think of a few other things, most of which might seem unpalatable, but please know i'm not trying to offend anyone - these are my meagre comments and thoughts on a character that's a little too close to a majot artery. heh

A string of one-night stands, Hotch fan, might be "one hell of a coping mechanism" perhaps but has been known to happen to the best of ‘em. In my head, I can even see how Hotch would rationalise it. If the two people involved in such a scenario had equal power and agency and went into it with their eyes wide open, it wouldn’t seem impossible to me – and in my eyes it wouldn’t make Hotch any less 'good' or any less compassionate or driven or committed than he is – sure, I doubt it would be easy for him and I also believe he would analyse it and himself to the point of exhaustion, but I would be non-judgmental about it if it happened (not that the show would EVER go down that road – so feathers are unlikely to be ruffled). Indeed, I would find this more believable than shooting peeps under water or walking into burning buildings and emerging out of it mysteriously unharmed or even being so completely unaware of the problems besetting Prentiss during the Doyle phase or Reid’s and Morgan’s emotional crises ;0) OTOH – I can also imagine him never getting over Haley. All told, it’s mere speculation on my part and throwing around ideas – hints and allusions are just that – and are open to multiple and contradictory interpretation. At least that’s how I look at this – in recent canon he does seem too good at everything and is likely to remain so because the PTB would not dare to take a chance by actually introducing conflict or anything else that might be construed as remotely damaging to a character b/c OMG how can Hotch do this? Well, he can, because he is human and good and conflicted and tortured and scarred and deserving of love and happiness—sexual, platonic or otherwise.

Eleven said...

Contd.
To put the record straight, I think canon Hotch (bar some strange S6/7 episodes) is brilliant as is, and enough to sustain me within the confines of a 42min crime show that has 6 other equally important and popular characters. Thanks to tg and the writers, I need little extraneous material to ‘complete’ the picture of Hotch in my head. One thing the little AH/Beth scene reminds me of, though, is some of tg's early-Hotch body language (and I don’t mean Hotch at home, with Haley/Jessica/Jack, but as we have seen him in the office) – hands behind head, leaning back, even letting out a ‘son of a b-‘ in front of Reid’s Mum no less (ha! You didn’t remember that did you Dr Reid when the boss reprimanded you a coupla epis back?). As the seasons have progressed, his movements have become increasingly economical, as if he were withdrawing into himself – I understand this in terms of the evolution of Hotch and the devolution of Aaron, but a little variation might be a good thing now and then in Work-Hotch – in the earlier seasons, I think there was still some Aaron in Hotch and vice-versa, or he let the two sides bleed into each other with less restraint, but now it’s no longer a fracture but feels like a complete rupture – they’re like two men almost. They sort of converge with Rossi – but after 7 years I think he should feel a tad more comfy with the rest of the team, too, not to the point of hugging and kissing everyone randomly mind you (hmmmm gets distracted thinking about this), but just a little more Aaron at work perhaps, just an octave less frowny, and just a smidge more generous with movement. Maybe Beth would be a stepping stone towards healing and bringing these two parts together without fear of being burned or losing everything all over again. I wonder if it was a conscious choice made by tg so that Hotch could survive in this job post reaper, or who am I kidding maybe tg can channel his inner Hotch in his sleep, hanging upside down from a banana tree in Timbuktu – he makes it look so easy, especially when I watch an episode of D&G once in a while.

Anonymous said...

Can't say that I'm "for" a lady-friend for Hotch, unless of course, it's ME! Anyway, when the show first started, he was married and had a baby on the way and it was all ok, but now that he has divorced and gone through the tragedy of her death, seems hard for anyone to accept another woman for him. We have watched this show each week for 6 1/2 years now and these characters have become real to us. Not sure that I could accept a "love interest" for any of them. Seems like no one would be good enough.

- CM Junkie

Hotch an said...

I think CM is great, but I think that the writers are going about with some new storylines the wrong way.
The team works in a job that will crush their souls if they let it. I want to see more darkness from each team member. I want to see each team member confront their darkness and come back from it. We've really only seen Hotch do it and not even all the way. We've seen him confront darkness and beat that darkness (FOyet) to death, but not really how he came back from it. I want to see him cope and stuff, not see him getting a love interest. No love interest. I want to see something more personal from all the team members, though in borad strokes for Garcia b/c since S6, I have to remind myself constantly why I love her and should not attempt to reach through the screen and choke her.

Hotch fan said...

I mean Hotch fan

Velandra said...

Hotch has a great smile .... Though its kind of weird seeing him get a bit giddy over a women. Maybe it's just hard seeing him w/ someone other than Hailey...

Raquel Reinke said...

I really love Hotch and I really want him to be happy, but this Beth thing is just ridiculous! Of course Dave would say to him to pursue it (because Dave is a cheap don Juan), but seriously, am I the only one who can't mix the Hotch of the Botch scenes with the REAL Hotch?
Do you believe a private person like him would just jump in a relationship with a total stranger? How will he manage to date a woman that can't understand the job? He's only going to get hurt again! And when he will explain to Beth his ex-wife died because of a sick psycho who was after him, will she be all cute and lovely?
SERIOUSLY, guys! Stop hurting the fans hearts! If you want to be sadistic and hurt the shippers feelings, go ahead! But not all of the Beth haters are shippers!
GO AWAY, BETH! I DON'T WANT HOTCH WITH A RANDOM WHORE!

Anonymous said...

To make justice they'll have to give Morgan, Reid and Prentiss some dates too.
Go ahead: turn a crime tv show into grey's anatomy.

Anonymous said...

I'm terribly disappointed with the CM writers. That Rossi line was completely unnecessary.

Anonymous said...

I usually try to stay positive but this was just awful. The Hotch situation aside, which really doesn't bother me one way or the other, the case was terrible. The team is just dropped in here and there and way too much time is spent on the fight scenes. Time is spent trying to gain sympathy for a stone cold killer without any real analysis of the behaviour. Then a little speech from Hotch turns this man into a sane and lucid father to spend his last few minutes with his son.
Also
-Reid couldn't be used any less unless he was not in the episode at all
-Why do people who usually keep their private life close to their vest all of a sudden know about Hotch's little bike ride?

Anonymous said...

I go back and forth on whether I like the episodes that show the UnSub this much but when the UnSub stories are this good, I don't care. Honestly this was so touching and sweet. I loved it. The Southland guy was great, Charles Dutton was great.. but the team, especially Hotch was fantastic. One of my favorites.

Anonymous said...

I'm so sad I could cry.
I mean, I always defended and loved Criminal Minds with all of my heart, and I know they wouldn't put Hotch with anyone on the team, but with that episode they showed us they really don't care about a part of the fans. A significant part of the fans.
Of course some shippers are unbearable (believe me, I KNOW THAT) but they watch CM too, and they fight for CM too, and they give CBS the fucking audience that is wanted. So I ask: it's ok if you can't please the shippers with the things they want but why do you have to deliberately HURT them? =/

Anonymous said...

That was one of my favorite eps. Loved that Hotch finally met something. Who is this woman. I hope she continues on the show.

Aaron said...

I think it was Hotch an who said only hotchner has gone through darkness and would like to see the rest of the team go through it. I have watched the show from the beginning and I have seen Prentiss go through it just last season and Reid did in season 2. Morgan went through it with his old mentor in either season 1 or 2. Garcia was shot and made it through that in season 3. JJ and Rossi have been lucky, well if you count watching your ex die. JJ had to be away while her son was at the hospital. I'd say they have all seen their fair share of darkness. Now let's see a little happiness for pete's sake!!!

Anonymous said...

Some things you don't have to show. Morgan probably has 2 dates per week, and even Reid found a girl here and there... but if they just just focused on the story (which was NICE) this episode would have been a lot better.

Bohemian Tech Chick said...

I thought this episode was very good. I LOVED the Hotch scenes in his running clothes - yum! And since I had read an article several months ago where Thomas said he hoped they introduced a romance for Hotch, I wasn't surprised or upset by that. Geez, it may only be a few minutes of film and a small romance for him. I don't understand why people would "hate" the actress. I love seeing Hotch happy, and I enjoy seeing a little bit of each character's personal lives. It adds interest. I liked the unsub's storyline, too, mostly because it wasn't too gory or gross. I liked the part where Hotch told him to be a father and let the son know that it was okay to "lose a fight". I guess I'm a sappy person and like nice things and for people to be happy. They have plenty of variety in the series - true psychos, sociopaths, ones that are mentally disturbed because of horrible things that have happened... Just like real life. Everyone likes different kinds of episodes, and I think they (the writers, producers and cast) do a great job of giving all of us what we like. You can't please all of the people all of the time. I thank the writers and producers for giving me this ep with extra minutes of Hotch. What a yummy holiday gift!

Jess said...

I'm not into the ship stuff so the relationship doesn't bother me per se. The thing I'm upset: I wish we could see Jack more often! Now with this love affair we're going to see even less of him. Ah, almost forgot: Hotch has such little time to be with his kid... with a date it's going to be reduced even more. A shame.

Hotch fan said...

Aaron,

I meant that the rest of the characters havent really seen that much darkness. You have valid points when it comes to Morgan, but Garcia was different and JJ doesnt count, and Prentiss, sorry but sleeping witha terrorist to get a profile...IDK how to feel about that.

Just Saying said...

Aside from Hotch in his rnning and biking gear, I didnt like this episode. And Beth lived up to her "sorority girl" vibe.
Please get rid of her and move on!

Indigo girl said...

Its always nice to see Hotch's ass being showcased in some way lol TG knows how to wear a pair of pants...and shorts!
But I am not sold on Beth. I really didnt like the supergirl wave she did at the beginning. I just dont see her with Hotch. It seems forced.

Anonymous said...

I think Hotch is flattered to be noticed and he knows that he should move on and maybe he'll try it with Beth, but I dont like Beth for Hotch. Also, something about her says that she wouldnt be able to fully accept Hotch and his job and stuff.
Besides, I think if Hotch really saw anything but a bike ride with her, he would know. I say no to Beth. BIG FAT NO BETH!

Anonymous said...

I am just blown away by the quality of the episodes this year. Starting with the premiere on, these shows have been on fire. This was wonderful. My mom and I just got off the phone and were speechless at how heartbreaking this all was. The end scene with Hotch and the family was so heroic. Hotch deserves Love. He is love.

Eleven said...

Lord, I'm a mess - sorry, this may just be the sappiest thing I've ever written—I was prepared to ooh and ahh at smiles and tee-shirts, and maybe concentrate a little bit on the case (I hear there was a case). But, no sir, Thomas Gibson just had to be a sadist—he just left me with a lump in my throat the size of Texas. The heart presses against the ribcage, and it hurts like hell. It's coincidental that just before the episode I posted a comment on the blog about how cleaved Aaron and Hotch had become—and then I saw this episode and they were messily and heart-warmingly entangled with each other. I had not expected this whole biking episode to be have quite so much of an emotional impact on me. The hospital scene (not when Hotch tells the father that life is short, but when Hotch can be seen in the background as father and son share their last moments together) was just ruthless and tender. Happiness is so much about the memory of loss, but it is also a reminder that one is alive, in the simplest, most profound sense—of breathing, of HAVING, of being capable of touching other lives, of feeling the air around us, of remembering, of celebrating possibilities. Only death marks the cessation of all possibilities, translated into a language we cannot know while living. It wasn't even about Beth, really, for me, but about Aaron—until he asked her, in that sincere, intimate, inimitable way of his - "How are YOU doing"; then she became someone other than in relation to Hotch. I didn't think the H/B stuff was overdone or meant too much more than it was - to me it was a first step, at friendship perhaps, maybe someone else whom he can meet on any given day and say, emphatically yet quietly, "I am Aaron. I am alive".

And, yes, I kinda love you, Thomas Gibson.

Anonymous said...

That kid broke my heart.Where is that kid from? Literally he was great. The whole story with him and his dad and then Hotch letting them reconcile in the end. That was touching.

Anonymous said...

We really need to start an Emmy campaign for the show. It was great. Fantastic. How the hell did they get the Southland guy to legally do the show. Isn't that a conflict of interest? He was mind blowing. He was so sad and layered and wow. I am speechless.

Anonymous said...

I didnt like Rossi in this episode, egging Hotch on when Hotch doesnt seem to really be ready to date quite yet.
Also, why is e veryone talking about Hotch as if he's a widower? He's not. He was divorced and then his wife was killed, who I believe it was implied that she may have been cheating on him. I could've accepted Haley b/c she was already there from CM's inception, but I didnt really like her either.
I also kind of feel like giving Beth a mother with MS is an emotional ploy to make the audience like her or accept her. I really dont think that Hotch needs a new love interest, especially not the ubergirly Beth. Hotch has enough on his plate without adding Beth to the mix. He is very time-managed, if thats a word, but Thomas Gibson said that for now they are just training partners. Hopefully, after that, Beth will be gone cuz I dont wanna see her.

Anonymous said...

All the Hotch scenes with Shawn Hatosy were great though, take away Beth and Hotch was magnificent in this epsidoe. I hate to see him cry but it was a touching scene at the end when he was in the hospital room waiting and watching.

LisaB said...

I love the title a play on the Sweet Science. It was bittersweet what happen to this fighter who loses his kid and in the process loses himself. I really felt for the UnSub and those are always the best eps when you feel for the Unsub and you question whether or not you want the team to put them away. In the end, I felt like a bunch of events made this guy snap and for whatever reason I truly questioned if it was fair for him to go to jail. I know he killed people but my emotion stayed with him as a father just trying to provide the best for his kids. This was a sad one but it was a great one too. Thanks CM.

CMFan said...

I have had many favorite episodes over the years..Omnivore, Riding the Lightening, Retaliation, Uncanny Valley. This one was up there. CM has not lost it's steam. Just a heartbreaking one. it was scary and sad. The best of both.

Anonymous said...

Hotch and Beth's meeting was so akward and unnatural and the way Rossi was pushing...it felt so contrived. I'm supposed to believe that she just happens to be carrying her business card and Hotch....I'll repeat Hotch..just lets his guard down and flirts with her.....and what I'm supposed to like this storyline of Hotch falling in love with some random guest star....I'd prefer him hooking up with Strauss..

Jennifer said...

Everyone was on it in this ep. Hotch - was at his A game. Rossi with his advice to Hotch that was great. The team's profiling and the UnSub. That guy from Southland was amazing and so was Roc Dutton. This was award winning.

Anonymous said...

Finally seeing Hotch get involved with someone is was fantastic. Love is in the air.

Anonymous said...

The whole BloodLust thing was very cool. I loved how this guy was a stepping stone but then the events with the kid and the fight outside the hospital caused him to develope bloodlust. This was fantastic. Wow. Honestly, this is the best CM season yet!!

Anonymous said...

I love Hotch, hardcore Hotch fan but I dont understand why of all the people, he had to have a love interest especially given this time in his life. Morgan and Reid are way overdue for one. Even Prentiss if you dont count Doyle. Morgan is way overdue for a really meaty storyline too!
Its not that I dont like Beth, I just dont think she is right for Hotch. i think you would be pretty hardpressed to find or create the perfect woman for Hotch.
This episode was interesting. i liked it for the most part.

Anonymous said...

Charles Dutton was amazing.

Anonymous said...

Garcia wondering if Hotch was getting back on the horse was hilarious! I love how everyone tried to play it off.

Not a fan of Beth said...

I dont like Bellamy Young or her character Beth, and I think that the last person Hotch needs is someone like that. Beth screams girly girl to me, and so obvious. She actually batted her eyelashes at Hotch before waving at him like a high school girl and running off.
Hotch is attractive beyond the describing of it. Hell, if I ever met Thomas Gibson in reality, I would probably start drooling and acting like a schol girl myself, but there's something about Beth whcih I really dont like. I dont know how to describe it but i'm not feeling Beth for Hotch.
Great scenes with The southland actor and Hotch though. You'd think that they would show Hotch go see his son right after instead of riding a bike with Beth who wants someone to chase after her. yeah right. Hotch doesnt really have time to chase after her or anyone but a bad guy. Which he does for a living. Also, not a fan of the name Beth. Not a fan of Botch!

Jo said...

The story of the figher was tremendously sad. He snapped and then the killer inside came out.

Anonymous said...

This looked better than the movie the fighter. It was so well done. I loved that this guy was a tomato can. That locker scene when the figher found out that Charles Dutton was betting against him was crushing. Charles Dutton should get an emmy.

Anonymous said...

Shawn Hatosy was great on the show. I watch him on Southland.

Anonymous said...

Wheels up! Seriously, this episode made me cry. It was the best. just the best.

Anonymous said...

I would prefer Hotch with Megan Kane, the unsub from Pleasure is My Business over Beth. Anyone notcie how even she kinds looked like Haley?

Pat said...

This wasn't a favorite episode for me. Another we know who the unsub is from the get go. Last week was so superb, I think it spoiled me. I think it's this writer's work I don't like. She also did The Thirteenth Step which was another ep of pure violence. And she seems to have a problem with Reid. In 13th step she sent him back to the precinct half way through the show never to be seen again and it was the same in this ep, hardly any Reid at all.

I was not all that fond of the Beth thing either. I found her to be too girly girl for Hotch as well.

Someone mentioned that Reid had two women but I don't believe he ever saw either Lila or Austen after the ep they were in so it wasn't like he had relationships.

christyzackman, I was so upset you gave your take on all the other guys and not Reid. He's obviously meant to be left out tonight. Just love the guy but oh well.

I wish they'd do something with Reid and his social awkwardness in meeting a girl but I guess we only get the second go round with Hotch even when from what I read, most people don't want that.

Eleven said...

Pat - it's episode 10 of a possible 22/24 - keep the faith :-)

Reid's, arguably, the most popular character - i'm sure they have something solid planned for him. I understand how frustrating it must be for you, because i felt the same way about Hotch in S6.

i'm wary of this turning into an intra-team competition, though. Also, few people were looking for a hotch 'romance' to begin with (and we don't even know if this is one - other than Rossi's ribbing and everyone else's curiosity) - many couldn't care less and many see this as just another way to tell Hotch's story. Question is - would anyone even think about a romantic storyline w/o suggestions of this one? So would we be happy if everyone got their 'romantic' storyline in one season? Would we like Morgan's before Emily's or Reid's before Hotch's? It's beginning to sound like a cul-de-sac to me. Most of S6 was about the BTS BS and little-to-no Hotch - now it's something else. Fair enough.

If we start to dictate in which direction the characters should be taken or cry ourselves hoarse about the writers' decisions, however, i fear that when the time comes for us to really join forces and fight for what/whom we love and believe in—the ACTORS/characters/SHOW—it would be akin to crying wolf.

Here's hoping we all get a little bit of what we hope for from the show - i'd have been equally happy for it to have been Morgan's or Reid's stories at this point (before/after/during someone else's story doesn't bother me) —whether romantic or not would be completely immaterial to me if they were conduits to parts of these poeple we didn't know. Discovering newer facets of known things or making the familiar strange is great fun for me. That why i still love the show - it's frustrating and painful at times, but i love it (actually, sounds a lot like some of my conversation with teh parentals ;0)).

Cheers

Teresa H. said...

My favourite scene in this episode was during that last fight watching Hotch's face as he watched Jimmy being beaten. I imagined him reliving his fight with Foyet and this time we got to see the face of the one being beaten, a very painful sight. I imagined this is some of what might possibly flash through his mind every time he remembers that.
But apart from that,oh my. After last week I had allowed my hopes to get raised. I was disappointed.
The Hotch/Beth scenes were fun to watch, nice to see him being awkward around someone, to see that vulnerable side of him. And of course the t-shirted chest side of him. :) And I can see them as a couple. For me it's not about wanting to see him happy, I just hope they write whatever emotions are stirred believably. I look forward to seeing how this plays out.
I'm sorry but I just do not believe that he would have told the team about this, no way. Perhaps when they were already married LOL.
There's something that happens with Rossi when he's being the supportive pal that just doesn't work. I'm remembering the scene in The Reaper when Hotch was feeling like all the deaths were his fault and Rossi was there for him. That was tension filled scene and the two actors worked so well together, but in the lighter stuff it comes across to me as kind of silly and ooc. Then the whole scene on the plane, I was cringing. Of course I can see how they would be fascinated by all things Hotch/their buttoned down boss but this did not work for me, perhaps it was just Garcia overload again.
I'm very seldom a fan of boxing scenes and this was too violent for my taste. I did not understand the whole "bloodlust" thing. For me there was no satisfactory explanation for it.
I did like the actor who played Jimmy and Charles Dutton was very good.
How did Hotch know that Jimmy was throwing the fight to get back into the hospital to see his son?
Talk about too perfect, he's a profiler not a mind reader. Or perhaps I missed something.
Then instead of being an FBI agent arresting an unsub who had brutally killed all those people he becomes a family therapist. I know he's a good, compassionate man and he understands father/son love I just don't like it when they make him too good. It almost seems like they're trying to please us Hotch/TG fans and I react negatively to it, the actual scene and then what I perceive as the rationale for writing the scene. I thought his reaction to witnessing the interaction between Jimmy and his son was very moving, just wish it had been set up another way. Perhaps if he had accompanied a hospital staffer as they wheeled him into the boys room rather than being the one to take him there.
Eleven, I'm so glad you enjoyed this episode and I wish I could be on the same page as you about it knowing how we both love our Hotch/TG.
OK, I've spent way too much time at this computer instead of getting ready for work so I'm off.

Eleven said...

Teresa, sweetie, we're on the exact same page - just that i haven't been able to concentrate on the case yet - so thoughts on that later (or maybe not).

i thought the two Hotch scenes i referred to in my first post-episode comment were emotional and powerful, and triggered a whole host of feelings in me - i thought tg was sensational (and i say this in the most unbiased way possible).

I agree with you about superman Hotch (think i said something about this before the episode aired) - these scenes make me cringe, too - because they are constantly trying to prettify and sanitise the characters.

BUT i am not going to let anything spoil the pure joy i felt right after the last scene and a half. No plothole in the world can take that away from me :-)

The only thing i would disagree with you on is the 'would the team know'? I'm not sure if i see it as some sort of 'progress' you know - to me it makes sense but OTOH maybe if he were really thinking of this as a great big romance he would have tried to keep it private. i think he is slightly more open to the ribbing now simply because he doesn't yet think he should be keeping it a secret? maybe he is tired of secrets, who knows. Rossi was pushing too hard, especially as you could see Hotch wasn't exactly sure, but i don't think he means any harm. And the team to gossip about it? I would if i had a boss as "slightly" uptight as AH :-)

I enjoyed the bits i enjoyed - they moved me and at least in this episode, they were enough for me. Looking forward to the Reid/Cornwell episode in a month's time.

And shockingly enough i failed to notice anything about tg 'cept his eyes. i'll look again (what a monumental pain).

Have fun at work, T!

Anonymous said...

Sorry CM, I thought this was one of the most contrived, predictable and worst written episodes ever. The only redeeming element for me was Hotch's encounter with Beth, which I thought was utterly charming. I'm happy that she's so different from Haley, and I loved seeing Hotch smile and give in to being human. I also enjoy it when an interest in the actor's real life is infused into the story (as we know TG is an avid biker). The rest was just ghastly to me. Quite a let down from last week's terrific episode.

Looking forward to another MGG-directed episode...can't wait to hear more about it!

Anonymous said...

"Hotch and Beth's meeting was so akward and unnatural and the way Rossi was pushing...it felt so contrived. I'm supposed to believe that she just happens to be carrying her business card and Hotch....I'll repeat Hotch..just lets his guard down and flirts with her.....and what I'm supposed to like this storyline of Hotch falling in love with some random guest star....I'd prefer him hooking up with Strauss.."

TOTALLY RIGHT!

Guys, comm'on... I'm not even a fucking shipper but you have to admit: IT WAS REALLY AWKWARD AND UNREAL! Gosh, I'm not against Hotch moving on with his life, but this was terrible! BLEH!

Anonymous said...

Really smart of the writers... now they made the 7x12 with touches of Hotch and Prentiss to stop the shippers complains.

Very manipulative and dirty, but that's showbizz

Anonymous said...

Brilliant episode! I loved it! Hotch is so intense and complex, and TG is a fantastic actor to get the intensity and many aspects of his emotions. Yes a great episode. I really liked the Rossi / Hotch scenes - amusing at the beginning, and very real at the end. Yes a great episode!!

Teresa H. said...

Some more thoughts.
As a Hotch centric episode there were some lovely moments in this episode.
The important ones first LOL: smiles, t-shirts, camera shot of butt in suit at one point.
I think I wasn't clear about how much I liked that shot of him as he witnessed Jimmy with his son at the end. His restrained tears made me almost as squishy as my fellow Hotch sister Eleven. It was short but said so much about the caring struggling man he is.
And I forgot his dry greeting to Garcia on the plane. Memories of his comments to Reid back in season 2 about the magic trick.
And I loved the vulnerable side of him that meeting Beth brought to the fore.

Eleven said...

Those last few minutes were so emotional for me that i didn't care whether the Unsub story made any sense or not. Thomas Gibson was magical and everything that had made me fall in love with the character of Hotch in the first place - the looks for me? that's just gravy. Because i cannot think of anyone we love whom we also don't think as beautiful. So, at least for this episode, the tee-shirts didn't even register. The eyes had it - happiness, pain, compassion. I was moved beyond words at Hotch in the background in the hospital - and you know what it made me think of? Not only of Haley's brutal and senseless death, but of Jack. Perhaps the scar closest to a vital organ is not about death at all, but about life and about Jack, that he still has him and this life.

Whether the ref to the death of Beth's father was manipulative writing or not i don't actually care - 'how is your mother doing' and' how are you doing' encapsulate Hotch for me. Which makes Hotch's reaction to Prentiss's 'death' and secret all the more revealing - he hasn't said anything, yet, about how he feels about lying to the team, necessary as it was, or how Morgan's justified anger affects him, because it must - no, the only thing we got from him was his asking prentiss how SHE had coped. That's just so aaron hotchner it breaks my heart.

and on a slightly lighter note - in both their meetings, the power dynamics b/w Aaron and Beth make me giggle - just when he thinks he has got a handle on the sitch, she surprises him, teases him and leaves him standing there giving himself a mental head-shake. I don't even know, at this point, whether it's a 'romance' - CM does not have the scope to show how he wouldl even TELL his story to her and how Jack would fit into it all (because hello 7 regulars to love!). So i'm taking it one step at a time - right now it seems like the beginnings of a friendship, which is great. Anything more would also be great. From what we have seen, the last time Hotch had held a woman was when he had sobbed like he had lost everything while cradling the lifeless body of his ex-wife. So i'm ready for (almost) everything CM throws at me, for, by god, it has already given me so much.

Also ready for anyone else on the team to be front and centre - bring it on i say.

I have a few thoughts on the boxing, too, but maybe a bit later. I found it interesting from the perspective of 'legalised' violence.

Garcia's mid-episode rant tested my patience, but as i said, nothing, i mean NOTHING, will take away from the purety of the emotions i felt at the end of the episode.

Anonymous said...

there was an anonymous who said that Beth is different from Haley. I have to disagree. Aside from Haley being blonde and Beth being brunette, they were both really girly with their awws and whatnot. I didnt like Halye but she was there from the begininng so it was acceptable enough. But Beth is unaaceptable. Id rather see Hotch handle being a single father and team leader than see him getting it on. He doesnt seem to romantically interested in Beth though, at least not yet and hopefully not ever. He just seemed to like the new attention.
And whoever said that Beth reminds them of the joker, I can see it. beth has that kind of joker smile without all that makeup.

Rutland said...

I liked the Hotch/Beth interactions and Rossi's dry sense of humor. I loved Garcia's sweet curiosity. That is so true to her character. I could have done with a little less violence and visuals in general. I got a little tired of the bloody beatings. (Go back to "Extreme Agressor" and notice in the pilot how little blood there was. Just a couple of bloody fingernails -- that's it. Yet every bit as powerful, maybe even more so.) But I had serious issues with Hotch's behaviour in the hospital. I could understand him waiting outside of the ER to speak to the Unsub. But the focus of his interaction was on the Unsub's parental role with his dying child. Why did he not question him about the missing trainer, Tony? At that point did Hotch assume that the trainer was already dead? Too me, it seemed OOC for Hotch for his interaction with Jimmy to be all about the kid dying and nothing at all about the missing man. Indeed, the missing man doesn't enter into the picture until after they're back in DC. Am I supposed to believe that Hotch thought the best way to ask about the trainer was to connect with the Unsub on this tragic/emotional level in order to prod him into revealing the location of the guy that he kidnapped? I'm not convinced. I think it was a writting mis-step. Even if we had heard Hotch and Reid talk about this strategy while they were waiting to talk to the Unsub. It would have made Hotch's approach make more sense.

Maybe that scene got left on the cutting room floor -- and it was the editor's fault instead of the writer.

Jo said...

I haven't liked any of the previous episodes penned by this writer and this episode wasn't any different. I didn't like it at all. CM is really failing to grab my attention this year. I'm hoping the Reid ep is a good one as he's the only reason I'm (just about) still tuning in.

Anonymous said...

This isnt my favorite episode. Not even the top 20. But its ok and I would watch it again just like any other episode. i am just not into boxing which is my only issue with the unsub storyline. That and the accents. Not a fan.
Not a fan of Beth either. I agree with all the ppl who say she's too girly girl. i found her mock gasp annoying and teeny bopper-ish when she said its about the chase. Hotch doesnt have time to chase a girl like her. Or a girl for that matter, or woman. Beth is a girl in a woman's body. She's not pretty enough for Hotch in my opinion. I also found Hotch to be ooc in this episde. From asking Rossi about advice to the team finding out about it. I found Rossi annoying in this episode. SOmetimes, he's distastefully dramatic. I dont see Beth being long term. Hopefully after the triathlon is over, she's over too.

Silvinha said...
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Silvinha said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Silvinha said...

I didn't like this episode at all.
First of all I can't stand to figure out who the Unsub is the first 30 seconds. We had 10 episodes so far and in 9 of them we already knew who the Unsub was. They're killing the thriller!

Second of all...I didn't like Beth. The way she approached Hotch was too suspicious and it amazed me that a super profiler like Hotch didn't think it was weird...it was out of character! Did she find out he was an agent just because of the suit? Since when only agents wear suits??

I hope we don't ever see her again!

gubegirl said...

Better late than never...been down with a stomach bug but did watch the show Wed. nite and have to say I liked it. Most of it.

Was not bothered by Beth at all...nice to see Hotch out of his comfort zone... think it is a good thing that he is exercising and participating in the triathalon and that he might make a new friend, I find both to be positive. I don't think Beth will infringe on his time with Jack...he would not let it. And if Hotch is happier, so will Jack be. He is a dad who needs to relax and this could help:)

Side note: Quite unsure what workload Hotch ever took over for Strauss because I don't believe they ever showed it but that didn't seem as strange as for him to be way the heck over in Pakistan. That never made sense to me. Just a way to display the beard he developed over the summer, maybe? Whatever.

Not bothered by Rossi's talk to Hotch either, Mostly in character, kinda like a pal and a little bit fatherly. OK with that.

Anyone notice JJ's completely different body language in the field as a profiler? Almost unrecognizable as our JJ. Maybe I will get used to it, but it still does not feel right to me. Not as wrong as Garcia doing JJ's old job, but seems OOC for JJ to be posturing (physically), esp as much as I noticed in this epi.

Too much visual of the beatings for my taste. Went a little too far and I did not understand the "bloodlust" theory. Never heard of this and I'm not sure I care to know any more about it:)

Jimmy was an unsub with whom you could empathize with once you knew his circumstances. Excellent acting on his part, Chas. Dutton and the son - all great guest stars. The early scene with Jimmy crying to Tony on the phone and Tony reassuring him was a good one, esp when you learned more later on. Quite complex and good writing along these lines.

Loved the end with Hotch at the hospital; he said all the right things and Jimmy took his lead and did the same. I felt both were learning something here and I was teary when Hotch was. So sorry to know the little boy died. What a tragedy.

Didn't like that it took so long to find Tony...that didn't feel right. His being missing should have been dealt with abit differently altho' not at the expense of Jimmy not seeing son before he passed...a short convo or directive could have made this more feasible. I felt like they dropped the ball there. Unlikely Hotch would be accompanying Jimmy into the hosp. room w/o medical escort, also, but, hey, it's TV and that's so small, I will chalk it up to creative license.

Everyone else was nicely in character which always "feels good" to me. Reid was his usual sensitive self altho' I would have liked seeing abit more of him. Hopefully, we will really soon. Miss you, sweet thing!

Nada else right now. Must get back to the C'mas wrapping.

TZ's: You will be relieved to know my oven is back in working order. Whew!

Have a great nite, y'all!

I'mACMer said...

I'm joining sf in leaving this site behind. My blood pressure can't handle it any more. So from now on, I'll stick to the sites where you have log in to post a comment. That means if you have the courage to make a comment, you have the courage to put your name on it. And because of that, all peeps, their favorites, and their opinions are respected. Always agreed with? No. But run over with the bus because you don't have that opinion. NEVER. And there's no comments of the "many" or "most" CM fans that are grossly and over-exaggerated. Each comment is read, valued and most importantly, respected.
I like to say its been fun. But after over a year and a half of this, I can't even say that.
And to Anonymous: I've put my name on this.

Anonymous said...

Let's please be inclusive on this blog and respect people's choices as to whether/how they identify themselves. BTW, isn't it a little hypocritical to say that using a moniker like "I'mACMer" is so much better than posting as Anonymous? "I'ACMer" your real name? I don't think I've seen a real name on here yet.

Sierra said...

I personally hope Beth disappears. I don't care for Hotch to have a love interest as the scenes with him and Jack are precious. Beth doesn't fit Hotch's personality and I hope she doesn't come back. Leave things as they are.

gubegirl said...

Just a side note: Doesn't PB look beautiful in the advent calendar photo? She has such a dreamy look on her face and has beautiful eyes.

CMFan11: where are u, bro? Come see your girl! LOL

Liz said...

I agree with Silvinha. Not only are they lessening the suspense, they're spending time that used to be spent on profiling and the team members themselves. I miss that, especially as a Reid fan longing for his first good storyline since S4 (the headache thing should've ended with Corazon).
Still not sure about Beth. Hopefully there's more to her than her cutesy act. What'd be even better is if they focus on the other half of the BAU (Morgan, Prentiss, and of course Reid) first.

Anonymous said...

I really have trouble with this writer so I looked at work she has done in the past and she has worked on both Third Watch and ER. She was a writer on ER. When she did an interview on CM Set Report she was asked (politely, not aggressuively as sometimes happens) why so much time was dedicated to the unsub and she said the story just sort of went that way and they had terrific guest stars. This to me is the porblem. One, the show has terrific regulars and she does not work on developing stories for them. Two it is just easier to create new characters with no background and fill the rest with violent images. As others have said, their is no dialogue written for the team. They just wander from place to place to drop in a few lines. I agree that the last scene was moving (a child dying in their parents arms is probably not that tough to make moving) and she was a writer for ER so this fits her comfort level. I also never see any empathy for the victims. I actually lost track of how many people were beaten to death in this episode and yet we were to feel for this unsub.I have felt empathy for unsubs before but to me this seemed forced because his child was dying. I felt more for the wife and mother who had to keep it all together while he ran around beating people to death. To me, this writer has really never understood Crimnal Minds. It is not a cop show and it is not a medical drama and to write for Criminal Minds you have to understand what it is.
You have to love and embrace the wonderful chacters that have been gifted to you and work hard to maintain and grow them.
I hope this doesn't sound aggressive or mean spirited because it is not meant that way at all but I really think we need writers who love and understand these characters and don't use them as props in the story they want to write.

Anonymous said...

To that last Anonymous: WOW. Thank you for your research and thoughtful commentary. You pinpointed exactly what was wrong with that last episode, and I experienced exactly what you did while viewing it. I really hope that Erica Messer and other decision makers at ABC read your entry. I believe that it could make an enormous difference to the future of CM. At the very least it would to this fan.

Pat said...

I totally agree with both the anonymous posters above me. I think I said in my post that I didn't like this writer's work. She seems to want to concentrate on the characters she's created and forget that she is supposed to be writing for the team. The episodes she's written for CM all bear that out:

The Bittersweet Science
Proof
With Friends Like These
The Thirteenth Step
Remembrance of Things Past

All of these episodes centered almost totally on the unsubs and were extremely violent.

There are episodes where seeing and knowing about the unsub are okay, even beneficial. In such episodes like The Big Game/Revelations it was necessary. In episodes like Distress, seeing and getting to know the unsub only added to your feeling completely heartbroken by what had happened to him. Then you watch old episodes like Poison or Extreme Aggressor where the team actually had to profile the unsub to lead us to him/her instead of so many of the episodes now where we're shown the unsub and his motivation and we're waiting for the team to catch up.

There needs to be a vast improvement in the writing. The show is Criminal Minds and supposedly revolves around these seven characters, why is that changing? It's what made the show a hit in the first place. In some of these episodes you could have almost anybody say the lines the BAU are saying and make the leaps in logic they seem to be making these days with little or no profiling. That was definitely true of this last episode.

Teresa H. said...

This is in part a response to Pat and the two Annon.'s above her with whom I'm mostly on the same page. I'm not always bothered by knowing who the unsub is from the beginning but in general I prefer the episodes where we follow the team's lead to get to him/her. Pat, I actually liked Rememberance of Things Past and agree with you about disliking the level of violence in the others. It's not the level of violence per se that bothers me so much as when it takes the place of suspense. Then the episodes don't scare me as much as sicken me. For me this was particularly true of The Thirtheenth Step and this latest one.
And I'll say it again; Hotch's tears in the hospital room were enough of a pointer to his humanity and compassion. The rest of those scenes with him and Jimmy could have been left out. I found them unnecessary and pandering. One of the things that really makes me dislike an episode is when the actors have to spit out their lines as fast as they did here. They never seem to belong to the actual speaker. It seeems as if, in turn, they pick a card and say whatever's on it. Is this a function of having to spend so much time on the guest/unsub?
So I really have mixed feelings about this one. As a Hotch fan I had pleasing moments and some not so much and as a CM fan, a fan of the stories and the team, I was very disappointed.

Eleven said...

Wow - first Anonymous above Pat, Pat and Teresa - BRILLIANT analyses - a few of us have been talking about this for a long time - and i am just going to repeat what you said with a couple of examples - was watching 'children of the dark' and 'about face' yesterday - so good, so compact and yet they were able to give us more info about the characters than the current episodes do (i am biased about the bittersweet science because i wasn't able to concentrate on the unsub story at all thanks to tg). From Emily's empathy to Rossi's lone-wolf drive, everything seemed pitch perfect. The Emily/Hotch exchange in 'children of the dark' was telling - 'i need to know that i can be human' was not just about Emily. Hotch's face revealed, at least to me, that they could be both human and objective and perhaps needed to be, esp given that he immediately told her that the young girl's family had been found and that they were going to take care of her, and more tellingly that he had cared to find out about this. This exchange could not have worked with any two of the other characters given Hotch/Emily's history; nor could Morgan's reaction to Rossi be given to someone else. They were Morgan's lines and Emily's lines - they could not just be planted on any of the other characters because the lines were DEFINING - now, as Teresa points out, and Pat, the lines are rushed and act as fillers. i was saying on the message board that i really miss Andrew Wilder.

The other thing i cared for and miss very much is the presence of the LEOs - the conflict and the empathy that they encapsulated while also revealing shades of the regular characters. JJ's new role and oh god Garcia's have managed to eliminate my other favourite part - the journalists, and media's role in identifying, pursuing, sensationalising, empathising and recording the stories of the perps, victims and survivors.

LV said...

The entire "Beth" situation bothers me....but I am not certain if the interactions between Hotch and Beth were poorly written or poorly acted by the actress playing Beth (probably a little of both).

Let's review the evidence:

1. Beth just happens to be training for a triathlon (what a happy, and unusual, coincidence!);
2. Stalking Incident One: Beth has seen Hotch at the pool (Okay, but kind of weird to mention it);
3. Stalking Incident Two: She has seen him around Federal Buildings in a suit (Super weird to mention that! And a white guy in a suit in DC! Not exactly a Sasquatch sighting);
4. She has suffered the loss of a loved one (Not an unusual circumstance in and of itself, but it seems like she has TOO much in common with Hotch).

If someone approached me in the park in this manner, I would not be planning a date...I would be getting a Restraining Order. I am not a profiler, but the whole encounter seems suspicious.

This might sound macabre, but I hope Beth holds the BAU/government responsible for her father's death or she is somehow connected to Foyet (sp?). That would make her "chase" comment foreshadowing rather than awkward flirting. Also, if she has been researching Hotch all of the concerns mentioned above would be moot (and her acting would be perfectly fine!).

jonishackley said...

JSB's episodes are among the worst IMO. AS others have posted, she relies on gratuitous violence rather than really develop the characters. I don't care to watch fighting so that part of the story would have been difficult for me whoever the writer had been, but there was way too much time devoted to fight scenes and showing bloodied victims and not near enough time devoted to our BAU team. I have heard that the writers and Erica have shied away from questions about the differences in the writing of the early episodes and the more recent ones. Prior to season 6 we were able to get much more of a balance of screen time for team members within each episode. Writing was more suspenseful and there were many more episodes where we didn't know the unsub from the get-go. The Bittersweet Science is near the top of my list of least favorite episodes, and all 3 of JSB's episodes are on that list . I think they should get rid of JSB and I'm quickly losing faith in Erica. I was optimistic about her taking over prior to the start of season 7 but she seems not to really understand or care about what the fans want to see. I want to see the team and their skills as profilers and not so much focus on the unsub. And I don't care to see romance for team members. If they persist in keeping this Beth character around, I hope that her appearances are as limited as Will's.

Blue Sunflower said...

Pat said...

I think it's this writer's work I don't like....And she seems to have a problem with Reid. In 13th step she sent him back to the precinct half way through the show never to be seen again ...


Reid was written out early in Thirteenth Step because MGG had to go to Japan. He wasn't available for filming.

Thirteenth Step was one of the highlights of S6 IMO. It was certainly one of the better written. I have no problem with CM occasionally focusing on the unsub (although I didn't like this episode). It *is* a show about profiling them. I will say though I think this particular season is focusing too much on the unsubs, and particularly their backstories. I'm getting tired of the flashbacks used to try and "explain" why the unsub ended up a killer. Sometimes, people are just plain evil.



Pat said...

I totally agree with both the anonymous posters above me. I think I said in my post that I didn't like this writer's work. She seems to want to concentrate on the characters she's created and forget that she is supposed to be writing for the team. The episodes she's written for CM all bear that out:

The Bittersweet Science
Proof
With Friends Like These
The Thirteenth Step
Remembrance of Things Past

All of these episodes centered almost totally on the unsubs and were extremely violent.


"With Friends Like These" focused on Reid and his schizophrenic issues, and "Rememberance of Things Past" was Rossi-centric. Both enjoyable episodes, IMO. Certainly not the dung written by Rick Dunkle, like "Coda" - which was saved only by the Rossi/Reid/Sammy scenes. (Seriously, WTH did he had the crowbar, and Seaver's infamous "Could Sammy be the unsub" line. Terrible writing.)

Blue Sunflower said...

Word to your entire post, gubegirl!

gubegirl said...

Anyone notice JJ's completely different body language in the field as a profiler? Almost unrecognizable as our JJ.


Yes! I'm kinda digging it. JJ certainly is different since coming back, and I like watching her learn her new role. I find it more weird just seeing her out in the field. :D

Anonymous said...

JJ/AJ has always been one of my favorite characters on the show. She has such beauty and grace, and an appealing combination of genuine sweetness with a core of steel. She and Emily/Paget complement each other wonderfully, E/P being edgier and funny. Thrilled beyond words that they are both back on the show. This cast has such amazing chemistry. Now if the CM producers could please engage writers of the same caliber...!

jonishackley said...

Totally agree with last anonymous poster about JJ and Emily AND the writers. I still think they're putting all their funds in the guest star basket and forgetting about the writing. Go back to what made this show stand out from the other procedurals. It was unique but that is slipping away. We can't rely on our magnificent team to carry the show when they're not given good scripts. Some of this season has been outstanding but others fall far beneath the standard set in the earlier seasons (sans season 6.)

Liz said...

I enjoy the occasional guest star, but it's strange that they can afford other well-known actors and not better writers, like the ones they let go at the end of S4, ironically due to budget cuts. Before that, they managed great writing and great guest stars (Frankie Muniz, James Van der Beek, Jason Alexander).

jonishackley said...

I agree, Liz. I guess we'll never really know what went down at season 4. At least they have the proper cast back. Comments about the writing seem to fall on deaf ears at those chats. I don't really care who plays the roles outside the team as long as they perform well. But EM seems to think getting well-known guest stars makes a difference. I DO care about poor scripts, though, and them underestimating the intelligence of the viewers.

Anonymous said...

I don't really like the sentimental stuff on the show, and especially regarding Hotch
I don't know why but reid's stats about widow just felt so wrong... haley's death was tragic so any comment about how long hotch is going to stay single sounds wrong, once again
I still think this show is way better than anything I watched but it's not the show of season 3, 4, 5 anymore
and what's up with jj who acts like the new prentiss?

Pat said...

Bluesunflower:

Thirteenth Step was one of the highlights of S6 IMO. It was certainly one of the better written.


We shall have to agree to disagree on that one, which is fine. It’s just a matter of taste, I suppose. I know CM is about violence but it used to be mostly spoken about by the ME or we see crime scene photos, but this was just pure violence for the sake of violence, for fun of these two totally sick individuals

Bluesunflower:

I have no problem with CM occasionally focusing on the unsub (although I didn't like this episode).
I'm getting tired of the flashbacks used to try and "explain" why the unsub ended up a killer.


Exactly my point, occasionally, in the earlier episodes it was the team who figured out what was going on with the unsub and took us there. Now it’s just laid right out there in front of us like there’s no need for the team. It seems that way in almost every episode these days so not only JSB is guilty of it. I don't want to imply that she is but, on the whole, I find myself not liking the episodes she writes.

Bluesunflower:

With Friends Like These" focused on Reid and his schizophrenic issues, and "Rememberance of Things Past" was Rossi-centric.


I didn’t find WFLT focused on Reid and his schizophrenic issues. They were brought up briefly, granted, but most of the episode focused on Ben and the three sickos that inhabited his mind. I’m such a huge Reid fan, I cling to each moment he’s on the screen and if this had focused on Reid, believe me, it would be a favorite.

So I guess it all boils down to what we like. I like the suspense of finding out who the unsub is, good profiling, the writer showing the viewer the interactions with the seven members of the team and occasional glimpses into their personal lives.

gubegirl said...

I have thought about the review by an anonymous yesterday or the day before (wish I could name you!) but I have to say that I am in agreement. I appreciate your research on the writer of this most recent epi and her history with ER, etc.

There seems to be a pattern here, doesn't there? Too much of one...not enuf creativity or too much repetition, such as us knowing the ID of the unsub prior to the team. I believe that could happen occas but should not become a regular thing. I find the show WAY more suspenseful trying to work WITH the team and finding/guessing who the unsub is rather than wait for the team to "catch-up" if you will, to the rest of us. It causes the viewer to be less captivated and to lose interest, don't you think? Plus not as suspenseful. Is this just a different writing style, would you say?

In "The 13th Step", I could state without hesitation that the acting on the part of the unsub guest stars was amazing. I had known "Syd's" work prior from Friday Nite Lites but her range as this vicious killer blew me away as did that of the actor playing her BF/fiancee - he was really quite an incredible young actor, whoever he is.

That said, I found the epi to be way too violent for my taste. The shooting and gore was excessive and this could have been a good case for the less is more. CM is NOT CSI and I don't want it to be.

Now, here we see excessive force/violence in more of this same writer's work this past Wed. nite and it causes me to ponder.

Re: Reid, Pat, I have to agree, our boy had precious little screen time that I recall in the one with Ben and the boys, and I always recall the Reid showcase/shows.

Like LDSK last nite on ion. OMG, Reid failing his markmanship test, losing his gun and ultimately, after getting the s--- kicked out of him by Hotch (who kicked him "like a 9 y.o. girl", my a--!)snagging Hotch's 2nd weapon from his ankle holster and wasting the unsub, when he was "aiming for his leg" and all the while, our boy is looking like he was 12 y.o. when I believe he was something like 25.

Sorry for the longest sentence in history, but, what can I say? I'm a total Reid chick and when I talk Reid, I rant...I wonder where that comes from? Pat??

OK, guys, Time to move to the new post - I've already been and said nothing, byt you know how much I love going first - it's like a game with me; I am sure everyone thinks I sit here all day to make that happen. In reality, I usu ck the blog just 3 X a day. Just lucky, I guess - Hah! Will go ck the message board now, as well, can't afford to miss anything, esp if sf has gotten any spoilers today that I need to see...Later, folks!

zagi said...

Anonymous said...

"and what's up with jj who acts like the new prentiss?"

I think it is really a problem that JJ came back as a profiler and not in her old job. The show already had enough profilers. Now they have to share(the already rare) profiling scenes even between six profilers.

While Hotch still has his unit chief stuff and Reid his statistics and maps, JJ takes away profiling scences from Morgan, Rossi and Prentiss. Which is annyoing because they do not get any of JJ`s old scences in return. The case presenting went to Garcia and there has not been any press release stuff lately, which if there will be any probably also go to JJ or maybe Hotch.

So instead of their ususal profiling scenes that now go to JJ, Rossi gets some humorous lines, Morgan more trust issues and Prentiss nothing. To make it even worse JJ moves and sounds more and more like Prentiss. Even their voices are similar. And IMO JJ is far too perfect and awesome. They should give her some flaws and let her make a mistake sometimes. That would make her more interesting for me.

Pat said...

Zagi,

I totally agree. I am not at all fond of "new JJ". She seems to have lost all the compassion of the JJ I loved for five seasons. Now she's the best profiler ever, this perfect being that can do no wrong. I wish when they'd brought JJ back they hadn't changed her from a character I really loved to one I'm becoming to dislike.

I do feel that she is taking screen time away from the other profilers also, when they really don't need six profilers, especially when they hardly seem to be coming up with profiles anymore. They just seem to be making these huge leaps of logic that come from nowhere.

Meg said...

Pat said...

"I am not at all fond of "new JJ". She seems to have lost all the compassion of the JJ I loved for five seasons. Now she's the best profiler ever, this perfect being that can do no wrong. I wish when they'd brought JJ back they hadn't changed her from a character I really loved to one I'm becoming to dislike."

I agree with Pat. JJ used to be one of my favourite characters and I was very pleased that she was brought back for S7. Unfortunately I'm now finding myself disliking this "new JJ" more and more with each episode.

Alicia said...

Ok, I know that it’s in the eye of the beholder but I just don’t get how, from what we have seen this season so far, JJ has lost her compassion.
Has she been cruel to someone or abrupt or insensitive? In the only two instances that we saw her talk to the grieving mothers she was just as gentle and kind as ever, even if her role was not to comfort them but to get information from them. Should she be crying her heart out when going on a crime scene or delivering the profile? She never did that, even before. In fact one of the best things about JJ in seasons 1 through 5 was how professional and clinical she was when she was presenting the cases, however bad they were, and she was just as professional and straightforward in the field too.
And since the victims tend to be an afterthought lately not only JJ but none of the others have the chance to show any empathy for them, to relate to them and not the unsub – just like in this episode where we were supposed to feel for the poor, sad unsub because he had a sick kid but what did we learn about victims that were beaten to death and their families?

And in what way have they suggested that she is the best profiler ever and that she can do no wrong. There was the comment from Prentiss, on the second episode I think, that Hotch believed she is a very good junior profiler but we knew since season 2 that Hotch believed she would be a good profiler and admired her as an agent. Apart from that she hardly did anything that would imply that she was any better or different from the others nor did anyone acted or said anything to her to that effect. Plus her nearly 7 years prior experience in the BAU are more than enough for her to act as more than just a junior profiler who has never seen any horrors or dead bodies.

I don’t even see her as taking screen time from the others too, her screen time is about the same as season 5 but in a slightly different capacity – instead of her 2 minutes presenting the case she has 2 minutes in the field. But even if she did that’s a good thing and I am all in for more JJ stories than any other team member since over the years she was mostly neglected by the writers.

I loved JJ before and I love her just as much now. What I don’t love anymore is how the show keeps trying to make me feel bad for the unsub and not the victims.

Pat said...

Alicia said...

Has she been cruel to someone or abrupt or insensitive? In the only two instances that we saw her talk to the grieving mothers she was just as gentle and kind as ever, even if her role was not to comfort them but to get information from them. Should she be crying her heart out when going on a crime scene or delivering the profile?


You're right when you say it's in the eye of the beholder. We all see things differently. The JJ I think of is the one that stayed with Meg and her daughter in Public Enemy or the parents in the episode that bears her name, JJ. Now I'm admittedly a huge Reid fan, so my perspective may be skewed but I think when she told him that he was upset because he didn't detect that they were lying to him because they covered their micro-expressions was pretty damned insensitive. She lied to a friend, the godfather of her child no less, for seven months telling him someone he cared deeply about, even loved, was dead and then when he's angry about that she turns it around and makes it his fault. If that's not insensitive, I don't know what is.

Then in 'Painless' she tells Reid she was a nice girl, "Even to guys like you." What's that supposed to mean, that Reid is no more than a bug to be squished under one of her many shoes.

Again in 'There's No Place Like Home' she's blaming Will because Henry had a seizure asking him if he even took Henry's temp. I found those two occasions to be rather insensitive.

I guess when I say screen time, I don't actually mean that per se. I always thought the profile was choppy enough with five people popping up with their individual lines, now that it's six, it's even more so.

I guess I'm just feeling that JJ is now to be the little fair haired girl since Hotch told Emily that he's never seen anybody better than JJ. Also, in the ep where Emily told Hotch that she and JJ had been playing scrabble, he simply turned around and grinned at JJ. JJ had sworn to Reid that she couldn't tell him and Emily had promised him that they had no choice. Yet they chose to play on line scrabble. If Doyle had had the slightest inkling that Emily wasn't dead, I mean Rossi did and let's face it, she faked her death before, he might look to any connection between Emily and the team. We know by watching Garcia how easily she can find things out. This made the assertion to Reid that they couldn't tell him rather weak. By going on the net, they were opening things up to the whole world but still insisted to their friends that they had no choice. We also know that in witness protection, which is what this was, you are to have NO contact with your former life. But no, these two trained agents are playing online scrabble. Now you think Hotch, having lost the woman he loved in witness protection might be concerned about this since it is not very professional, but no, he just looked back and grinned, leaving me to believe JJ will be able to get away with just about anything.

I also totally agree with you about the writers suddenly trying to elicit sympathy for the unsubs. There was nothing sympathetic about that boxer and most of the unsubs have something terrible in their past that turned them into killers.

Alicia said...

Just for the fun of the debate I’ll try and make counterpoints even though I don’t think we will agree on the subject.
And I will also say that I am not a huge Reid fan. I like him alright but definitely not one of my favorites or a character that can do no wrong.

So here we go:

Public Enemy’ is not one of my favorite episodes anyway but JJ’s insistence of staying with Meg especially when she was needed elsewhere might have been compassionate but it was OOC for JJ because she never had been unprofessional before.
In ‘JJ’ it was her assignment to stay with the parents and support them and this season there has never been a point, in any episode, that someone had to stay with any of the victims’ relatives. In fact, as I said, this season victims and their families all tend to become an afterthought in general.

Now about micro-expressions exchange. In that episode we saw that Reid had been avoiding her before going on the case and when they had to work together he kept making snide remarks and still refused to talk about what truly bothered him. At that point his behavior was becoming too distracting and she felt that they had to clear the air. Again he tried to avoid the subject and as a way to make him stay and confront her she said something extreme, something that she knew would make him stop and talk. Even the phrase she used was scientific enough to draw his attention. So I don’t think she tried to make it his fault, she just wanted to get his attention. And she didn’t lie to him about Prentiss to hurt him. She lied because she had to and even if she couldn’t tell him the truth, what she could do and did was try to be there for him and comfort him. Because I don’t think it’s easy having someone over your house for 10 weeks grieving, even if you care about him.

As for Will, again she didn’t really blame him for Henry’s seizures. She was upset and probably felt guilty for not being there for her child and in situations like this you don’t think straight. So she asked him if he checked for fever signs when trying to piece together how he got that sick and Will’s reaction showed that he understood that. And by the end of the episode she even said she was sorry.

In ‘Painless’ I found Reid’s comment that she was probably a mean girl just because she was a good student and good looking as mean on his part too, so her answer back was appropriate. But this also is just bad writing since the writer in the chat said he just thought it was a funny exchange or something like that.

So for me all those instances are not signs that she suddenly became insensitive. Plus it’s with the people you love the most that you have the biggest fights.

(continued)

Alicia said...

Moving on.
So, Hotch told Emily that he's never seen anybody write so good reports, but as Prentiss said herself JJ had reviewed thousands of cases in her old position so she did have an advantage over other junior profilers. And as I said before Hotch, even way back in season 2, had stated that JJ was an agent he greatly respected. Since then I didn’t see Hotch make any comments or gestures to show that he favored her over the others. If anything, I believe that JJ and Hotch used to have maybe the best rapport between team members- apart from his friendship with Rossi – and unfortunately they are letting it fade away.

And the whole online scrabble thingy. I could come up with a few points as for why it wasn’t that dangerous if they did play online and about Hotch not having concerns about safety or if his reaction was a sign of favoritism but I won’t even bother. Truth is it was just bad, bad, BAD writing. Another stupid plot point in the whole stupid badly thought out super spy arc. The whole scene between Prentiss and Hotch was just bad writing from start to finish. So Prentiss with her sixth sense guesses that something’s wrong with Jack when Hotch never showed any signs that he was upset about anything, let alone Jack, and gives him useless advice and during the whole awkward talk they both have these unreal smiles like the talk is about cute dogs. And then just to make things worse we have the online scrabble because again the writer thought that it was cute and sweet that they stayed in touch playing online scrabble, so of course Hotch sends this huge smile towards JJ.

So for me these are not signs that we have a ‘new’ JJ with less sensitivity and super powers but they are signs of bad writing and characterization in general.

Boy that was a long response! Thanks for your time!

Pat said...

I do have to agree with you Alicia that the writing leaves a lot to be desired as I mentioned earlier in the thread. Yeah that plane moment with Emily, I call them her Dear Abby moments as she had one with Rossi too over Carolyn, really bugged me too.

On the subject of JJ, I guess we'll just agree to disagree. I don't know what it is, it's just that she irks me this season and she never has before. I've always totally loved her.

Thanks for the reply on the subject. Happy Holidays.

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Daviduxwh said...

IMO this Hotch gets a love interest storyline is totally overhyped and gets way too much attention and promotion. I am not against Hotch getting a new woman in his life. But I do not watch the show for some love story. I watch the show because it is a show about a team of profilers catching the bad guys. I watch it because it is a dark show with dark charatcers. Nothing against a few light moments in the show. The characters need happyness and friends and family outside of their job. But the main topic should be the cases and the team working the cases. I do not want to see more of the Hotch/Beth storyline and Hotch`s personal life than we get to see about JJ`s and Garcia`s family life.