Criminal Minds spoiler thread for "Supply & Demand" starring Joe Mantegna, Thomas Gibson, Shemar Moore, Matthew Gray Gubler, Kirsten Vangsness and Rachel Nichols.
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«Oldest ‹Older 401 – 517 of 517I feel a little scared now--the news just came out that Chris Meloni (aka Elliot Stabler) is NOT going to return for L&O:SVU's 13th season. The reason? His contract negotiations fell through. The very same thing could happen to Thomas Gibson. Not to mention Mariska's role reduction next season (although she chose to have fewer episodes, because of her children).
Man.
I understand that Erica Messer needs to be political on her interviews. She can't say she doesn't want Seaver...
But I hope Erica knows that Seaver is unneeded, unwanted, unwelcome and a waste of time because a rookie CAN'T be in the BAU in the first place.
All we need is the great group of seven together again and good writers to develop them.
That's all!
@silvinha. Well she can't just turn it arround either. Then she will look like a liar.
Seaver and all the cast need to stay, it is the only right thing to do. We want to see Seaver evolve as a team member for this great team.
As a long time and faithful viewer I’m glad about AJ Cook’s return, but reading her last interview I’m a little concerned.
I like JJ, she’s a great character, but I really don’t want her to become some kind of omnipresent superwoman.
Second, I hope her personal life won’t become a soap opera, Criminal Minds is not the right show for that
About Seaver, I too think Erica was being political. She didn’t say Seaver would stay or leave, right now it’s simply ‘wait and see’.
Personally I hope to see that character go, there are many reasons and I’m not going to express them again, I have already done it, other fans have done it time and time again (and I’m not sure Erica Messer & Co took the time to read the comments since she said people disliked Seaver because she looks like JJ……).
We still don’t know if Paget Brewster’s Emily Prentiss will return.
If she does I can’t envision the show working well with eight regular cast members.
Some characters are already neglected right now, and the show only had seven characters to deal with at first, then that number went down to six.
Reid was barely used this season and I’m afraid they are just going to bring back the ‘headaches storyline’ from the dead just to give him something to do next year.
My hope is to see the writers giving Reid a complete and developed storyline that will focus on his genius (in a positive way, of course) and on his worth to the team. I’m glad to see many people want to see that too.
Also, like other posters, I don’t want to see romantic storylines for the main characters. I’m sure the writers can think of better storylines for them.
Krissy, I definitely don't want to see this supposed evolution you keep pointing to. There are too many things to set in order with Criminal Minds to keep banging away on a character that should have never been introduced in the first place, and by that I don't just mean because of what happened to AJ and Paget, but because of the ill-conceived nature of this character.
Part of being a good leader is the ability to say that mistakes were made, to recognize when the well has been tapped more than it should of. The Seaver well has been tapped dry and to keep tapping it will further alienate some fans and continue, in my opinion, to degrade the show. The right thing to do, as you say, is to look out for the health and integrity of the show and this does not include continuing with that character for reasons that have been banged away at here on many levels.
Symphony, I completely agree with everything you have said.
Having read A.J.'s interview I am a little more confirmed that her return to the show may not necessarily be for the best. I loved her character as she was oringinally conceived and was angry at how she was treated last season. But I'm not liking what I read about seeing more of her family life. Are they going to toughen her up while at work and then portray the old, warm JJ
whom we know and love through her relationship with her son and husband? Other's have commented how hard it is to write for too many characters, if they start adding this to the mix how well are they going to be able to do it.
As many of us have said before, this show is best when the focus is on the team as they work together to do what they do best.
Of course who knows what will happen. I think it's probably best to take what is said in these kind of interviews with a grain of salt. I'm sure they're a bit of a pain to do and probably have a publicist's goal of keeping the fan base happy while not giving too much away.
I seem to remember from last year that A.J. denied something that Ed Bernero said about her coming back to the show. Now, perhaps at the time this was news to her and he may only have been indulging in wishful thinking but it all goes to show how much goes on behind the scenes that we know nothing about. And they have to keep us hanging on all Summer, right?
Same is probably true of what's going on with TG and it is likely in the best interests of all parties that we are on tenterhooks for as long as possible.
Chrissy, no Seaver doesn't NEED to stay at all. There was no need for her in the first place. And there has been no need for her in any of the episodes she has appeared in. Even in her introductory episode, where she was portrayed to be some obstacle course goddess and super cadet, she didn't contribute anything worthwhile to the profile which aided them to find the killer. Our original team did it. The very basis on which she was brought is flawed, and nothing but her elimination will rectify that. They got on fine without her and will get on fine once she's gone. Her remaining will only bring down the elitism of the rest of the team in the eyes of the audience. And it's not fair or logical.
I don't want Seaver to "evolve" as a team member or anything since she shouldn't be on the team in the first place. All we'll get is more whining and crying about how her daddy was a serial killer and didn't give her a puppy when she was a kid. It was done to death in her first episode. I can't endure all the melodrama. I'd rather they spend time on Reid and Hotch who have been neglected this season. As well as JJ, who has always been my second favourite after Reid. Hopefully, Emily will return too. And we will get a good story line reintegrating her into the team. Seaver should go work in some field office because that is the sensible thing to do, and leave profiling to the pros, or else the credibility of the show will be compromised.
I read AJ's interview and I'm so psyched she's returning! I, for one, cannot wait to see all they've planned out for her. I'm sure she's going to shine, whatever they throw at her. Welcome back, AJ! You were sorely missed. Here's hoping that Paget will return too and soon the family will be complete.
I loved reading AJ's interview.
And with all the drama BTS and the bad decisions made this last season (Seaver, barely no Hotch and Reid, headache storyline and too much gore), and with Gibson and Paget's return still uncertain, and Seaver's return still possible (Please, PTB, get over it), JJ's return is basically the only thing making me excited for season 7. Or should I say hopeful?
And she was right, if JJ is to return, she should worry about what was going to be done with her, since, in her own words:
"I didn't want to go back to what I was because apparently it wasn't deemed important enough to have me there in the first place!"
I'm glad she will be back a little changed, because it's been a year, apparently 2 job positions and Emily's secret later, but AJ Cook played JJ for 5 seasons, she knows this character at its core, so we will have our JJ back, even if a little more powerful or a bit different.
And about the family drama, please, CM barely delivers on team moments these days, they won't go heavy on personal moments, so I'm expecting a tiny scene here and there.
Either way, WELCOME BACK AJ!
Where you belong and should never have been pushed out. We missed you!
And for what's worth, Come Back Mr. Gibson. The show needs you!
And Come Back Paget! The fans miss you terribly!
I just want to say and write here in case TPTB are reading, now that you are bring JJ back and you are insisting on keeping Seaver, because apparently you love her so it doesn't matter if she doesn't fit, if most people don't like her and like Camilla has stated, the simple fact that this character was accepted in this team of elite profilers, degrades the show, I just want to say that I do hope that you don't try to USE JJ to keep on forcing this character down our throats.
Let me be clear, I don't want words such as "we have to make her feel welcome", "she is part of the team now", "accept her" or any other desperate attempt to manipulate the audience into liking, accepting and embracing this character that you can come up with.
You tried with Gacia, Morgan, Prentiss, Hotch and Rossi, didn't work, the people who don't like her, won't be tricked into liking her, especially after 12 episode of not liking her, so don't degrade other characters please, especially not JJ.
Jess
Spot on Alana, AJ's return is the only thing about season7 I'm looking forward to. I hope we get news about Paget soon. The show really, really needs her. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that she returns. I'll never be able to enjoy CM like I did before if any of the integral members are missing. That's a sad fact. No matter how good the storyline, writing and acting with regard to the other characters, the gap left by Paget/Emily's absence will always be glaring and the show will never be the same without her.
Please TPTB/CBS if y'all are reading this, move heaven and earth and persuade her to return. She's simply fantastic. And yeah please get rid of Seaver, regardless of what happens with Paget.
Jess! Thank you for writing that! My thoughts exactly.
@ Heyya : I totally agree with you, we need the ENTIRE team back the way it was. CM was at its best at that time.
Also, they need to write off Seaver very very quickly at the beginning of next season (within 2 episodes). I won't take another season with her taking screen time from our beloved characters.
I still haven't watched the last episode because I read that she has more lines than Reid and Hotch. Just the thought of it make me ... URG!
pearlseattle, I agree, she needs to be gone quickly. Please, let's not repeat the same mistakes from this season, show. Learn from your mistakes and move on.
And it baffles me that Seaver can't just disappear, like Erica Messer stated, but JJ was gone in two episodes (one more than it was supposed to be) and the show is preparing itself in case Gibson doesn't come back for even one episode to wrap it up the character. So Aaron Hotchner can just just be gone in episode 7.01, but Seaver can't? Seriously?
And let's not just blame the Network for this, because they still had Gibson to shoot episode 6.24, they should've used him to help force the network to bring him back, and instead they make it easy for him to leave.
And then they tell us how much they want Seaver to stay.
Get you priorities check show and fight for the characters that are worth it.
Jess
It is so refreshing to read the interview with AJ: it seems honest and open and I like that. I love that she knows TPTB are influenced somewhat by the fandom-I should say FANATIC-dom! Also, the family element which is a factor that makes this show so special. You can FEEL the caring thru the TV screen, and it is what draws many of us in and keeps us riveted and coming back for more.
Not to mention hanging in there this past miserable year.
I don't worry that JJ is going portray some greatly different person even if she is in a different job position, not just because AJ indicated she wanted to stay nurturing, etc. but because, after 6 seasons (years) of experience, it is reasonable that she would be promoted or moved for some growth. I hardly think she's taking Strauss' job, but it would make sense that in order for her to be persuaded to return, she might be offered greater or different responsibility. (That's the former Human Resource Mgr. in me talking.)
Small glimpses into their personal lives also makes sense to me because as you all know: your personal life CAN affect or impact your job. The writers have done a great job before at this, i.e., Hotch's home life, bits with Reid's mom, Morgan's past, etc. This also keeps the show real, not so constantly dark, and helps us to better understand and empathize with the characters the cast is portraying. I feel that in small doses, it is important if not necessary.
I cannot imagine the show becoming a soap opera because it has NEVER gone in that direction and why would they now? I would like to think that they have learned from their mistakes and know the type and quality show that we as viewers are looking for. And that we are LOYAL to a fault - even AJ said it, which I also love her for saying.
More than anything, I would like to see the entire cast together again, with TG staying and PB returning; I can live with any little job mods that would happen in real life as long as we still to see our entire team.
I won't say anything about RN except that if AJ is back and unless RN is trained to become the liasion (given JJ is promoted or becomes a profiler), I don't see how she could be made to fit in. Not only would the cast be too large, the writers have backed themselves into a corner with the entire cadet story. Let's hope there is no no "jumping ahead 5 years" like Desparate Housewives did a few seasons back - that's when I stopped watching - that would not work for me!
I feel almost like we lost an entire season. I want this show to go several more years and I think it can, with proper direction, writing and the players we know and love, and using much of its old premise and format. So let's get TG to sign and PB to return so we can back on track like NOW!
That's my two cents...
Actually, I have a very good idea how to get rid of Seaver at the very beginning of next season.
She doesn't show up one Monday morning (hopefully in the first episode) and then the rest of the team are like "Mmmm, something is changed in here, what is it?" And Reid answers "I don't know!! But it feels like home again." And then, the greatest FBI team in the world (which includes Hoth and Paget) moves to the next case.
OK, just kidding, but if the writers want to borrow it...
I on the other hand also want to see seaver grow. She has potential to be a fantastic addition. I really don't care what you all say but know this seaver got fans as well.
Camilla,
I'm glad you're a Seaver fan and don't care what others say. I hope watching her on the show makes for pleasurable viewing.
Personally I don't like the character but I know what fun it is to watch my favorites and if the writing got back on track I could enjoy the show as a whole.
@ Camilla Jessup : We do not deny that RN has fans out there and that some people like Seaver, but the FACT is that a BIG MAJORITY of the CM fans don't like, even can't stand, her character.
That is a FACT that Rachel Nichols, Erica Messer and Co. will HAVE TO ACCEPT at some point. And the sooner the better for the survival of this show.
I just read a list that showed how each television show faired this season in the all important 18-49 demographic. Over all for Season 6, Criminal Minds finished with a 3.8. That rating allowed the show to end up in the #20 spot overall and the #10 spot for scripted shows. I have no idea how this compares to last season.
what do you mean survival of the show? The show works fine with the cast that is there now. The ratings is still as strong as ever.
Maybe you think that. But fact is the show is in no danger.
Well, Camilla, I've been a fan of this show for over 4 years and I can state as a fact that the show has never had this kind of backlash before.
Actually, before Nina Tassler came out and said that they changed the original so it would be more like the spin-off, the fanbase was still very supportive of the show and waiting to see what was going to happen, without much complaining.
There certainly weren't threads with 400 posts with 350 of them being complains. And never a character caused so much disagreement (actually fighting and name-calling) between fans like Seaver. Not Gideon/Rossi, Elle/Emily, not even JJ/Jordan.
And if everything is great just the way it is, and the show has no problems, why would CBS invite Paget back and give AJ a two years contract?
Something must be wrong.
Chance to be canceled? Of course not, it was just renewed, but the risk to alienate old time fans (same fans who fought for AJ and Paget and a while back, Gibson), that's for sure.
Me for example, I gave this show this one season, but if in the next it's still this MESS, I'm not sure I will hang in there blindly.
I won't abandon it without a fight, but there's only so much I can take.
Camilla J. I think they were referring to the long- term possibility of a ratings decline, not this season. People have stuck by the show this season which both CBS and CM should be grateful for, but they shouldn't press their luck that this will continue if Seaver returns, and especially if Hotch is not there.
Also, the fact that the ratings have remain consistent has absolutely nothing to do with the Seaver character. The fact that the ratings have remained consistent are due to Hotch (TG), Reid (MGG), Garcia (KV), Rossi (JM) and for the time that she was there Prentiss (PB). They are who have kept the show running despite all of the craziness, and in my opinion, the degrading quality of the writing and the Seaver character.
Lysa,
You are absolutely right, about the members of the cast (and their exceptional acting abilities) who have kept us DIE-HARD CM fans going. Another season like last will not see the likes of the remaining viewers watching with such devotion, especially if TG does not stay, RN does and PB does not return.
As much as I think AJ's return will help and is totally welcomed, I think any of the above will cause a dismal season 7 and the possible demise of CM as we know it. We want it to turn around and go back in the direction it came not in the way that it has been going during season 6, using less of our cast, more big name guest stars, and lack of continuity and credibility.
It's pretty simple to me but I am not in the TV ratings business, just a member of this blog for going on four years and watching since Season 2.
Lysa,
Oh, and you forgot SM. You can NOT leave out Shemar:)
Camilla Jessup said...
what do you mean survival of the show? The show works fine with the cast that is there now. The ratings is still as strong as ever.
Maybe you think that. But fact is the show is in no danger.
Wrong!
The ratings, once Paget left the show and it was clear that all they had to say about her "death" had been said, went down.
To lose 0.3-0.4 in the demo (total viewers DON'T matter) may not seem a terrible steep down, but if nothing is done (bring back The Magnificent Seven and ditch Seaver) to remedy that, next year ratings will start lower than this and from there they can only get worse, as always happens as the season progress.
And that "getting worse" for a veteran drama that's only half-owned by CBS will mean "very serious danger of being canceled".
Gotta say something here
Actually you are WRONG the ratings are still the same.
Janet of course there has never been that much backlash. They never lost 2 actresses on the same time.
If they did that before then i can assure you Prentiss and whoever they got would also have been hated for no reason. Just because the fans is angry.
Nope!
I've kept the ratings of the whole season for a wiki, and the decline of the last episodes is too big while the rest of the CBS shows only lost a little bit due, probably, to the weather (good in some places and horrid in others).
And before somebody goes again to the 3.8 average, that's Live + 7 days worth of viewing, but not the number that determines the viability of a show as the advertisers only pay for Live + C3 (the ads that are effectively viewed live and the next 3 days of DVR) and that number only is similar to Same Day Viewing (people that record usually SKIP ads!).
Gubegirl, you are right! I can't believe I left out Shemar. No way Derek Morgan can be left out! I got caught up with all of the M's and assumed that I added him. I love Shemar a.k.a Derek Morgan!
Maria you are wrong CM has always been on 3.2 - 3.5 in the important demo. This year it actually rose in the demo from last year.
So you are so wrong
S6 average is 3.5, so the ratings have gone down: first because it premiered a bit lower, second because of going against the competition part of AI instead of the results and third because it has ended with its 3 last episodes only getting 3.3, 3.2 & 3.3
S5 average was 3.7, so NO, ratings haven't gone up, as the average NEVER would have been that number if you were right.
Almost every show goes down year to year. It has nothing to do who is on the cast because most people watch this because it is a procedial.
Let me tell you why most shows go down especially an old show like CM. Because people DVR or download more now.
Anonymous,
YOU are wrong, CM ratings are down from last year 3.6 to a 3.5 for this season. The numbers are available on many ratings sites, have a look and you will see that CM only lost 0.1 from last season. Nothing to worry about.
TB
Yeah but Maria is also wrong that its down 0.3 - 0.4
that is just so wrong. it is only down 0.1 as you say and its because of increasing DVR and downloading like so many shows fall under.
Anonymous,
We don't know why CM is down, DVR? Losing two actress? getting a character not many like? bad writing? Modern Family being a much bigger show, demo wise, than last years? All of the above? Who knows!
TB
When somebody ONLY wants to be right often forgets how to read and understand what they are reading.
I've told you that the ratings have gone down 0.3-0.4 from the Prentiss's arc and fallout to the last episodes.
I've told you too that the season to season average has gone down 0.2 from 3.7 to 3.5, because last season average is NOT 3.6, and that I have the ratings from both seasons from a wonderful source (that gets them directly from Nielsen).
Maria,
The number I have are from Travis Yanan who gets it from Nielsen and the numbers for last season was 3.6
but no matter if the drop is 0.1 or 0.2, it is a drop but that will not get CM canceled anytime soon after all NCIS went from a 4.6 for episode # 13 to a 4.0 season final and on May 10 it had a 3.5.
TB
TB said...
Maria,
The number I have are from Travis Yanan who gets it from Nielsen and the numbers for last season was 3.6
but no matter if the drop is 0.1 or 0.2, it is a drop but that will not get CM canceled anytime soon after all NCIS went from a 4.6 for episode # 13 to a 4.0 season final and on May 10 it had a 3.5.
TB
Agreed!
What has me worried is that the declines have come after certain happenings this season. For instance, while the Hotchless ep got an average rating (nobody knew beforehand it was Hotchless) the half-hours ratings (that always go up big time), didn't and the next one steeped down significantly (nothing against Shemar, IMO he was seriously wronged here 'cause he was painted soooooooo OOC); and the Prentissless ones after the fallout had been addressed, the steep down was too big for such an steady show as CM is.
It's significant too, talking about CM being steady as a rock, that even if it was hit hard by the AI premiere, it recovered like the champ it is and nobody else did, so external happenings aren't able to hurt it in the long term.
The only reason I watched the end of this season is because it USED TO BE my number 1 show. So I was ready to give them some time to clean the mess they created.
Now, I give them only a few episodes next season to repair this mess or I will be out 100% for sure. And I am pretty sure I am not the only one thinking that way.
Maria: it is not the external happenings I'm worried about. I think if TPTB keep up all this craziness that it will be the internal happenings that will ultimately cause CM it's demise. I for one can not stand another season like this one. I also cannot stand another season of Seaver and if T.G. Doesn't return I can safely say this will be it for me.
well good riddance to both of you. You were never fans of the show to begin with then.
Seaver is a good addition only the close minded can't see that!
And so many is sick and tired of this unjustified hate this character gets.
And to top it all of. She is in fact a person played by an actress and it just shows those who keep complaining about her is selfish people that don't give a crap about anybody but there own opinion!
They are ready to walk all over someone that is lying down. In that is the sickening part.
Anonymous: just because I don't agree w ur opinion on Seaver does not make it wrong and vice versa. That's why it is called a opinion and not fact. Not everyone is going to like every character in every show. Also the reasons why people do not like the Seaver character have been stated time and again on this blog as well as others. Also to say I'm not a fan because I don't like Seaver or the way they have torn apart CM is ridiculous. Let's just agree that we have differing opinions and agree to disagree.
agreed anonymous on some of the things you said. The seaver hating is misplaced for the most part and most of it comes by people being angry because the loss of Prentiss and JJ at that time.
I also think seaver will be a good addition to this fabulous team
Maria,
Nice observation about CM always getting an upswing at the half our except for '25 to Life ' better known as 'the Hotchless episode'.
There was an episode, not sure if it was aftr 'Lauren', that went up by as much as 0.8 at the half hour!
CBS is the one who are destroying CM by cutting CM's budget every year. You can cut up to a point where the donkey no longer have legs to stand on, when that happen the show will crumble. CBS should remember that before it is too late.
TB
I just want to finally make a comment here: I LOVE RN BECAUSE OF ALL Y'ALL HATING ON HER SO BAD! Maybe not "everyone", ok, ok, I understand "haters" is fighting words on this forum, but the negativity just makes her into an underdog for me, and I've just liked her more & more every episode.
I hope she comes back! Also, it's WEIRD that so many people are so against, offended--nay, aghast--at her being a potential love interest for Reid. Don't you want characters to get together on the shows you watch?? Doesn't everybody? I want everyone to get together on every show I watch! I want Christopher Meloni & Mariska Hargitay to get together on SVU! F#$! I'll settle for Chris Meloni & Dann Florek! I'm happy with combinations that don't even make sense! I want Rossi to have a girlfriend! I want KV & Shemar to get together! Don't you want to see Hotch get married again? I was rooting for Hotch & Strauss! Didn't you feel the tension there? I hope he nurses her through the cancer that is *obviously* coming! Where is the romance, people!?!?
No--where is the LOVE of romance among this fandom?
P.S.-- Suspect Behavior was GREAT! FW is so crazy-intense how can you not LOVEIT? Not even two words, just one, new noun-verb combo--loveit!!
I respect your opinion Anonymous, but just a big NO NO NO on all your points in my opinion. If I want romance, I'll tune into one of the daytime soap operas that hasn't been cancelled. By the way, Chris Meloni will no longer be appearing on L&O SVU. He decided to leave the show.
I'm not even going to talk about the disaster I call the Seaver character- just two thumbs way, way down.
I've never seen Suspect Behavior so I can't comment on that show. At any rate, it's been cancelled
Anon, I haven't seen anyone hating on RN. On the contrary, I've actually seen several nice posts about how none of this is her fault.
The idea of Seaver and Reid makes me gag, though it's not as ridiculous as when someone a while back suggested Seaver and Morgan. That would have gone over well with the many Morcia fans... NOT.
I certainly hope these are not the kind of ideas the writers and producers of the show think are needed to "refresh" it. Otherwise, the words "jumping the shark" come to mind.
Oh yeah and there is certainly tension between Hotch and Strauss but I think it is quite far from the romantic kind of tension. Unless your idea of romance is a cold-hearted ball-busting b*tch who insults and undermines her man. LOL!!!
@Honestly : I agree
Seaver and Reid = Sickening
Seaver and Morgan = Ridiculous
Straus and Hotch = Hilarious
Count me in on the ones who don't want to see romance on this show.
I'll watch something else if I want to see romance.
What really matters is the team and the moments they share together, not romance.
count me in as well on not seing romance on the show
But count me in on seing seaver develop more on the show :-)
Dear Annonymous/Romance lover. I assume, esp. since you broached the idea of a Hotch/Strauss romance, that you were being facetious. This would indeed be hilarious as pearlseattle says. How would the writers get their minds around that one?
Thomas Gibson saying he is hopeful about coming back doesn't sound too hopeful coming from him. Didn't he used to say he wanted to come back and not he hopes which does not sound good. If hew was even close to signing a deal I think he would have said something but he said still working on it. Sounds like they aren't even close to coming to terms and its almost June. I don't think what Thomas said even helped the situation. I am preparing for him to leave.
I totally agree that CM is not the place for romance in the office. I’ve been watching some Without a Trace on ION and find myself saying WTH with all the musical beds going on there. Mark Gordon, Exec. Prod. of CM, is executive producer of Grey’s Anatomy, Private Practice and Army Wives; all shows with a heavy theme of hanky panky interwoven in the work day lives of the main cast, I’m glad that hasn’t spilled over to CM.
Romance is fun in a cheeky way on some crime shows, I like Castle and way back in the day Moonlighting was great fun. But the difference in these shows is their humorous tone.
I’m going to keep my rose colored glasses on with regard to Thomas returning to CM; it’s the only thing that makes sense for me.
Count me in as someone who doesn't want to see romantic escapades between the main cast members. A little romance for the characters on the side is well and good, like I have no problem with Kevin and Will as they're always heavily in the background and don't distract from the premise of the show. Haley was the same in the first couple of seasons so I didn't have any problem with her either. But I believe that if two main characters were to get involved, it will take too much attention away from what the show is truly about, i.e., profiling, catching the bad guys. That coupled with the addition of the most over the top, ridiculous character ever(you all know who I'm referring to, right? ASHLEY SEAVER) will well and truly mean that CM has jumped the shark as someone above already pointed out.
One of the things I've loved about CM is that the main characters didn't need to jump into bed with another and the show still worked. They never resorted to hooking team members up in order to "sex" up the show or anything, and I think that was very refreshing. And I respected it. I hope this doesn't change, because then there won't be any point in watching the show anymore. I'll just read fanfiction, Mary Sue in also on CM anyway, so I won't miss much.
Uhh...sorry about the last sentence, I see doesn't make any sense. Just realized it after I read it. My point was that if they want to turn CM into a romance then I'd rather do something else with my time.
I completely agree w/ you Heyya.
Thank you, Tina :)
I disagree about everything you said heyya!
In my opinion, there are more interesting stories to tell about our profilers than romance (even if it’s a romance outside of the team).
I like to see the more personal side of our heroes, but I want to see that through their connection to each other and the moments they share together.
They have a deep bond and I feel connected to these characters, that’s why I care about the moments the team shares together.
I won’t mind seeing a little JJ/Will or Garcia/Kevin, but that’s really it.
I hope the other personal moments we’ll see about the team members will instead be scenes that will highlight the bond our profilers share. The writers will have a lot to do on that field if the team learns that Hotch and JJ lied about Prentiss’ death. There is a lot of interesting material to work with here.
And if, by some sort of Christmas miracle, it could also highlight Hotch and Reid’s bond I would be a very happy camper, I love to see scenes between those two.
I prefer to imagine the other aspects of the private life of our heroes (instead of seeing it), I think it’s much more interesting that way and usually less disappointing.
As for Rachel Nichols, I feel for her, I really do. But that doesn’t change the fact that I don’t think Ashley Seaver is a good fit for the show, and that I would prefer that character to have a respectful exit.
That said, I totally respect the fans that think otherwise, I just don’t share their opinion.
There is a lot of uncertainty regarding season seven : will Prentiss come back ? Will Ashley Seaver stay ? What will be JJ’s new role ? Where will Hotch go (hopefully nowhere, he’ll stay with the team)?
I guess this summer will be a long wait for the fans.
** Does my Source count towards the ratings? Haha!
** I'm not keen on seeing romance between characters. Don't dip your pen in the company ink - it doesn't work (**grimaces**). However, what they get up to outside the office is up to them, as long as it doesn't detract from the show.
I liked the start of The Fisher King where they'd all got two weeks off and you saw snippets of them outside work before the case came in. Occasional domestic type scenes are OK for character development but for soap style drama (hmmm?) I prefer that old Aussie favourite - "Neighbours"!
** I'm not against change - if it works. The Seaver character doesn't sit well with me for numerous reasons others have already outlined. I dare say if they'd brought the Andi Swan character in instead of Seaver fewer people would be grumbling. I wouldn't mind seeing AS back - she had great chemistry with the team and especially Hotch (not in a fancying each other way though). Just a thought.
** If TG doesn't sign (...BL has a fit of the vapours...), I will still watch the show - even though it won't be as good sans Hotch. I'll watch in support of the other actors. However, I fully understand why some people will choose to vote the other way by using the remote control.
** @Gubegirl:
1). Earthquake cake is still a hot topic at work - numerous requests for the recipe so next time I make it I've got to weigh the measures so I can limey-fy it into grams! Does the icing sugar over the top represent volcanic ash?! (I found a fine coating of presumably Icelandic ash on my car a couple of days ago and am still geeking out!)
2). Trip to TJ is off.
* Firstly I read on a US goverment site that tourists shouldn't go alone so pretty much decided against it. Then my cousin mentioned it again but she'd draw even more attention to us as (despite also having Italian blood) she's very blonde and very fair and gets loads of attention anyway! I'll go and see JM's star on the Walk of Fame instead and then toast his good health with a large measure of Patron!
* Secondly, a gym buddy has recently returned from a two week NV-AZ-NM-CO-UT roadtrip and was warned in Durango (CO) by a shopkeeper not to go across the border as thousands of tourists are being shot every year and it's covered up to maintain the tourism industry. This Chica doesn't want to eat lead so will be staying firmly on US soil!
I too prefer to see the team bonding together than seeing one of them having a crush on someone he or she just barely met.
I want to see good team interaction in the seventh season, and I want to see Reid the genius at work too. The writers really need to expand more on that, it’s such a fundamental trait of Reid (not to mention that it could make for an awesome storyline).
Thank you Winnie for taking the time to read what I wrote even though you disagree.
I wish these people who had such strong opinions and attack those who disagree would be couragous enough to own them and not continue to be "Anonymous".
Sorry, I don't know how to do italics.
Anonymous said:
And so many is sick and tired of this unjustified hate this character gets.
I disagree. Everyone on this site is entitled to an opinion and every person thinks the reason for their opinion is justified. It may not agree with yours but it is an opinion. Mine is that I think the Seaver character is a poor fit and that it is not the fault of the actress, as you would see if you'd read my former post. At length I stated how I felt numerous situations converged to make this a very difficult position for RN.
Another Anonymous:
Don't you want characters to get together on the shows you watch?? Doesn't everybody?
No, I do not want the characters to get together. I think exploring the personal aspects of the characters through team interaction is quite sufficient. I think romantic relationships in this kind of situation only makes things a big mess. As others have mentioned, I don't mind Kevin and Will because they're not a part of the team and their appearances have been relatively limited. We saw more of Hotch and Haley but I think that was more to emphasize the difficulty members in this profession have keeping a stable relationship than it was about romance.
heyya, I agree with everything you said.
Pat,
I completely agree with you, exploring the personal aspects of the characters through team interaction is quite sufficient.
I also think team interactions are not only sufficient, but also more interesting to explore and more rewarding for the fans than a romance outside of the team.
Just like you, I can go along with Will and Kevin, but I don't want it to go beyond that, it's more than sufficient for me.
I like the fact that we don't get to see that much about the private life of the main characters. It leaves us wondering and it makes things that much more interesting. I prefer it that way.
I like the fact that we don't get to see that much about the private life of the main characters. It leaves us wondering and it makes things that much more interesting. I prefer it that way.
I agree. I love the little cookies that keep us wondering and thinking versus the literal playing out of scenes of their personal lives. I do love Hotch and jack scenes played out but wouldn't want to see it all the time.
For example, I love the little snippet that Hotch's father may have been abusive, then later on how angry he was with the abusive father in the Alaska episode. Continuity and continued threads about the characters' history and lives. In a way, profilers profiled... by the viewers!
No Hotch, No CM for me!
I am an unabashed Hotch/Prentiss shipper; don’t understand the need to hide behind “anonymous”; and I admit I’d love to see hints of romance on Criminal Minds. I believe quality writing could establish realistic relationships and make it work as a background story, without turning anything into a soap opera. I’ve watched Without a Trace as well, and agree that the bed-hopping on that show could have led to the demise of the series; but that was more a product of lazy, unimaginative writing rather than the fact that romance incorporated in the series. I wouldn’t mind if we found out Hotch and Prentiss were married and had been for some time. That would eliminate the debate about whether or not they should get together; people would just have to accept it and move on.
The reason this issue can become a serial killer is because the- will- the- or-won’t-they cat-and-mouse game wears thin. There was a recent article in the Hollywood Reporter that stated showrunners and writers are now skipping over the cat-and-mouse games and are simply putting couples together because that’s what happens in real life. Also because it becomes a creative nightmare trying to find excuses and reasons to keep couples apart over several seasons. They are basically challenging the Moonlighting ghost head-on.
Love, romance and affection are a part of life; and the fact that it is nonexistent in the lives of the BAU members is what makes CM unrealistic and the bane of most critics’ existence. CM has no problem showing the depravity, the gruesome, the profane, and the most heinous injustices to women; but to show any warmth, affection between the male and female characters is viewed as criminal. Love and romance don’t have to kill a show, but to pretend that relationships are nonexistent is a stretch. Even if they attempt them and fail, I don’t believe for one minute that all the members of the real BAU are single, avoid relationships, and are living as monks.
And CM takes it to such a cartoonish level that sometimes you have to roll your eyes. The underlying premise that guides this show is that these characters are a family; yet the men have no problem embracing each other, but they rarely embrace the women. In Demonology Prentiss so badly needed a hug when she found out her friend had died. Upon JJ’s departure in JJ, Hotch shook her hand after having worked with her for nearly 6 years. But Hotch embraced Reid in Revelations, and Rossi upon his return to the BAU in About Face. It’s really borderline silly. One of the things that has made NCIS so accessible to millions after being on for so long is the natural affection between the characters. And the producers/writers have no problem making the shippers happy, if not with outright romances, but by putting these couples in engaging situations that satisfy the audience without consummating any relationships.
cont...
cont...
I like Morgan and Garcia’s friendship, but it gets a little confusing because of the background relationship with Kevin who is rarely seen. I approve of both, because in real life people have friends who fulfill different areas in their lives. JJ has the most realistic relationship and seeing some bits of her life would not only add realism but enable CM to transcend the one-dimensional. I enjoyed the soccer game with Hotch, Rossi and Jack and believe more of these types of scenes will enable CM to broaden its audience. The focus of the A story should always be the cases and the profiling; but the B story can used to add vitality and richness to the characters we’ve come to love.
I always hear the CM’s not that kind of show; or Hotch is not that kind of person; CM can be; and Hotch is a man; and he’s quite a good-looking one. To think that JJ, Emily and Garcia have never speculated about Emily and Hotch during girl talk is unreal. They’re both unattached and gorgeous. It would be a natural conversation, even if it didn’t go anywhere. Snippet of real life and real relationships intertwined with the gruesome and the gore would not hurt CM and would enhance viewer satisfaction and may increase viewer appeal.
CBS thought it needed to freshen up the show by eliminating our two favorite ladies; when freshening up the writing and the character interactions could have a more positive effect. Some of my favorite CM episodes were Nameless Faceless, Haunted, Outfoxed, 100, Bloodline, Soul Mates, Ashes & Dust, and Children of the Dark—all episodes where Hotch was partnered with Prentiss. Others have their favorites based on other reasons. The answer is to make the characters and the writing more three-dimensional and accessible while providing new audiences with something more to embrace.
I love CM and will continue to watch whether it changes or remains the same. The only thing that can drive me away is if Thomas Gibson is no longer there. But a show that’s been on for seven seasons really does need to step up its writing, storytelling, character development and interactions in order to grow its audience. Simply giving the audience more and more gore is not going to enable it to grow its audience and it will naturally experience a gradual, maybe even steep decline. I would love for CM to grow its audience in its seventh season much like NCIS did and would love to see it one day challenge NCIS for ratings supremacy.
I don't see any sort of chemistry between any of the characters and I'm sorry if that were started on CM that would turn me off to the show. I prefer seeing the family type relationship between the team and let me imagine what is happening with them outside of work. I don't need to see them with someone. Is it nice to see Jack or maybe JJ with Will? Ok, yes, but those are snippets. The idea of any of the characters getting together romantically is disgusting to me. There is a reason, a very good reason, many workplaces frown upon that type of behavior; in some places that may lead to termination. This show has worked well without that type of romance between characters craziness that happens on other shows. I would seriously hate this show to take that all to typical dive into a romance between characters.
What this show needs now is to get TG signed on, Paget back, and the Seaver character gone. As long as they committ to the type of storytelling that has taken this show to the top, along with the cast chemistry and team dynamic, it will continue to be a good show that people will gravitate to.
Agree with everything you said Caroline.
@ sdwally : You said that "Love, Romance and Affection are nonexistant in their life". I don't think this is true.
The way Morgan speaks it is pretty obvious that he has dates all the time. Prentiss mentioned a couple of time having dates. JJ has Will, Penelope has Kevin, Hotch had a wife, even Gideon had a "girlfriend" and I think that Rossi have been married. That leaves only Reid.
Also, I don't understand how you can see Hotch and Prentiss having a "possible hiden" relationship!! It doesn't make any sense.
sdwally, I agree with almost all that you say and I have said here several times that peeks into the personal lives, inc. tidbits of romance would be welcome to me: because that is LIFE! I do have abit of a prob with romances within the workplace: it can be very awkward and could lead to issue that end up being costly to the show this far into it, being the way it has been. But glimpses into what they do, whose company they keep, on their own time helps to better understand the team and where they are coming from and would be a stress reliever for both them (as actors) and us as viewers to catch just a tad bit of it once in a while because it makes it more real. Even the actors in interviews have indicated that it gets too dark at times and it can be very difficult to deal with. All that crime, with its cruelty, gore and sickness could be balanced with a few lighter moments now and again - I think the show could use it, I would like it and it does not have to become a soap opera.
As nice a thought as Hotch and Prentiss hooking up may be, I would rather see them find love interests elsewhere. Altho' I find the possibility sweet, I just don't see it for these two. Nor any of the current players, now that I think about it, and certainly not Seaver and Reid -NO! (she yells at the top of her lungs.)
And wth with Morgan and Garcia being so physically chummy the last few epis? Even with Kevin coming back on the scene in one of the last epis, just when we were wondering if they were even still together, PG and DM were being kinda lovey. Don't get it and if Kevin and Garcia are truly in love, I don't like it.
Their phone sex (Garcia & Morgan) is a different matter. That's long-standing and I have become so accustomed to it - it can be so funny or just help to lighten things for a brief moment, I enjoy it and even expect it.
Ok, that's all for now. Time for a CM rerun! I'll check for all your rebuttals tomorrow - LOL!
The thing with this peeking into their personal lives thing is that this show is 42 minutes. There is a lot to do in 42 minutes that delving into some sort of relationship story would suck up. The snippets of Jack, Will and JJ, and I forgot before to mention Garcia and Kevin don't take a life of their own. Without a Trace was mentioned which is a prime example of how this peering into the personal life and the bed hopping between the characters turned into a nightmare that totally took away from the show. Ok, yes, that was due to sloppy writing, but, in the time allowed for the show, being that it is a crime drama, to do something of that nature (romance) would require a good chunk of time. With Garcia and Kevin, the time that is dealt with their romance is lighthearted and brief; that is a sort of comic relief. JJ and Will are snippets here and there, again brief. Anything would really have to be brief.
When Elle was on the show, there was an episode where it was hinted that she had a boyfriend but was keeping it hush. I thought that was cool because by the way she was acting, for me anyway, I could more or less imagine that she had someone but wanted to keep that separate from the job. I didn't have to see the guy that she may have been dating.
I think Shemar and MGG have said before that they didn't think a romance would fly on the show precisely because of the limited time. Does the show get dark at times? Yes, but that is to be expected. Showcasing a romance is not the same as showing Jack playing on a team, or Will and JJ out at a pharmacy with Henry. Going back to Elle, they never showed who the guy maybe, but that was a light moment because Morgan was teasing her about it Those lighthearted moments with team are nice and brief enough not to take away from the crime drama/profiling.
Sorry, I meant to write:
Going back to Elle, they never showed the guy who Elle was maybe dating, but that was a light moment because Morgan was teasing her about it. Those lighthearted moments with the team are nice and brief enough not to take away from the crime drama/profiling.
Sdwally, I always enjoy reading your posts; they are so well thought out and written.
I recently happened upon a fanfic of Hotch and Prentiss that was pretty racy and it immediately turned me off to the idea of the two of them; maybe it was just the immature writing of that particular author. I used to think they’d make a great couple; I love the scene of them in her home and the tension between them in Sex, Birth and Death. I think the writers may have been testing the waters for a romance at one point. Emily at his bedside, the shot of Emily turning her head away, just as Hotch says “…and how much I loved her…” in Slave of Duty and her picking Hotch up and walking him back to his home in Haunted. I wasn’t reading CM blogs back then so I don’t have any idea what fan reaction was to all that; the only thing I read was a comment from a viewer who said he was sick of seeing the two of them sitting beside each other on the jet.
I liked the hint that Rossi had or could have had a one night stand with Theresa in his hotel room in Zoe’s Reprise; it was perfectly in character. I agree with you that if a romantic scene is well written and it’s just a snippit of their personal life it can work. With that said, I really didn’t enjoy the Morgan and I don’t remember her name stuff in Hopeless; maybe it was just that I didn’t sense any real chemistry.
I totally agree with you that it was “borderline silly” that Hotch didn’t at least hug JJ when he told her he would miss her. But again, she was there till the end of the week and she may have received lots of hugs from everyone; as I remember only Garcia gave her an onscreen goodbye hug.
As for Morgan and Garcia, I saw an interview with Kirsten and got the impression that much of the chummy relationship we see between these two is very close to how Shemar and Kirsten interact with one another.
Happy Friday everyone, here’s hoping we get good news from Mr. G today and maybe Paget too!
Hotch is a conundrum sometimes because he has hugged the men of the team twice but he has never shown any type of closeness like that with the women. This is a man who (as Prentiss once said) does not trust women as much as men. He had one long term female relationship, Haley, whom he met as an upperclassman in high school and later married. He has never shown any desire to date or meet other women since he got divorced. He became a complete workaholic. A person who went home only to sleep and shower. The episode when Prentiss dropped him off after work when one day showed this man does not like being alone in his apartment. He just stood there and looked lost. He is not a man who knows who to meet women or date and probably has never been to a club alone.
He respects women and treats with deference but does not trust them or even like them very much so if he had hugged JJ when she left it would have been OOC. Not what this man would do at all, in a small sense he is slightly submissive to women.
Interestingly, you see this in many episodes of how he treats women and reacts to them but that does not mean he likes them or trusts them.
Another aspect I find interesting about Hotch is that he gets much more emotional and angry when he sees boys being injured or abused than when he sees girls that way. He is more cool and stoic then. Even with Morgan in Profiler, Profiled, Hotch was the one who figured what Morgan was keeping a secret. Some knowledge about that maybe?
I would love to learn more about his childhood and what made him the man he is. The respectful but lonely soul who is actually afraid to open up too much because then it would mean trusting.
Major Ramble Alert**
Interesting turn this thread has taken. I feel for the poor writers, I really do - so many people to please, ideologies to uphold, and so little time! I would have lost my mind by now. i believe they should really sit back, shut out the white noise of our collective differences and write for 'the pure, agonising hell of it', to quote Stephen Fry out of context.
While I'm quite happy without the fraternisation seen on some of the other crime shows (I see those as 'silly' romances with a bit of crime thrown in, sorry!), I won't bust a vein if something is ever hinted on Minds (I'm wary of inter-team romances, though. It would depend on how it's written, but the writing itself has been shaky most of this season - so....). Rossi - yes yes yes to seeing one of his ex-wives, please, or again soon-to-be ex-wife! Hotch, though, is kinda funny. I cannot separate Hotch's attitude towards women (on his team) from his role as boss. I wonder if that's why he carries an invisible measuring tape with him 'right, you think a 3-feet gap is ok?' '5 seconds for a handshake and 4 for a pat on the back'. I imagine his mind working that way, which to me is not too absurd given his position, both professionally (boss) and personally (been with one woman, possibly, for two decades). I didn't find the handshake with JJ borderline silly at all because his voice broke and I got the distinct impression that a hug would have broken him completely and he wouldn't have wanted that :-) Plus, I'm curious, correct me if I'm wrong - are Prentiss and Garcia the only two women he hasn't touched at all (hand shakes not included)?? Four-second pats were given to Elle (once), JJ (once), Seaver (once) and Strauss (once) if I remember correctly.
I'd like to think a bit about his alleged trust issues with women. Haley (she left him), Emily (initial episodes - how she was brought into the team) and Erin (all I've gotta say) most pronouncedly - I'd probably have a few trust issues with them, too, if I were in his shoes. Any other unfounded and irrational trust issues with women in particular you can think of?
Also, I don't think the Minds writers would do anything too distasteful in terms of romance /back story - they haven't yet, so I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt...for now.
PS: I have an irrational dislike for Rom Coms, but I'd give an arm and a leg (and maybe my nose - here you can have it, I never liked it) for tragic romances.
PPS: Why are we discussing this? Oh wait - there are no new episodes anytime (is that one word or two here?) soon.
PPPS: Is Hotch perceived to be unattractive? None of my friends (or i) got Elle/Garcia's reaction to Hotch's brother in the tribe. anyone care to explain?
I like that Hotch is a bit of an enigma.
Maybe some of his mistrust stems from his father having affairs and his mother knowing but not doing anything about it.
I remember a friend telling me that men who enjoyed being married seem to quickly marry again after a divorce or death of a spouse. Maybe Hotch didn’t enjoy being married or at least the failure part of it. Maybe it is just that he recognizes that he doesn’t have time to find someone let alone time to actually build a relationship.
Eleven…I certainly think Hotch is a very attractive and sexy man; that line “maybe he’s adopted” never made any sense to me. Thomas Gibson is definitely EYE CANDY!!
MFJ - i agree and i agree. 20 years you give to a relationship, struggle to find a balance between it and your job, then you lose that woman first to your own inability (for several reasons) to give the marriage any real time and then to someone you 'picked up' on the job (Foyet), now you have a young son to raise by yourself as you try to not die on the job to leave him an orphan - oh bloody hell. yes, i'd think it would take him a long time to recover from any of it.
Sean/Hotch - odd that entire scene. Morgan's hotness (oh yes!) and Reid's handsomeness (oh yes!)(and even Will's and the Brit chap from CM:BS) have been commented upon by the other characters. Rossi and Hotch, no. You'd think they looked like the back of a wall-hanging if Minds were on radio. It goes without saying that i find tg a little more attractive than is good for me or my marriage (grin) and i think JM is a darling - love his eyes!! And the women are incredibly beautiful - all of them. Depressing really (above grin becoming a little strained).
SDWally - love your comments....
Sdwally,
I understand your point of view but I really do not agree with you.
I know you’re a big Hotch/Prentiss shipper, and it’s fine, but there’s nothing ‘canon’ about this ship.
Now, just think about it, you ask for romance, but what if the romance that happens is a romance that goes against the Hotch/Prentiss ship ?
What if Prentiss and Morgan end up together, Prentiss and Reid, Prentiss and Rossi, or Hotch and someone else on the team ? Or simply Hotch or Prentiss finding love with someone outside of the team ?
They are convincing arguments for all the ships you know.
Since you’re a Hotch/Prentiss shipper you only see Hotch and Prentiss, but other shippers can back up their ship with canon just as convincingly as the Hotch and Prentiss shippers.
So, you want romance, but if it does happen and if the romance goes against the Hotch and Prentiss ship, wouldn’t it kill the dream for you ?
Wouldn’t you prefer for the show to not show romance then, if only to be able to still believe in your ship ?
At the end of ‘Reflection of Desire’ I know some fans freaked out simply because there was a woman sitting next to Hotch at the theater, and they thought there was a bit of a highlight on her. They were worried she was here with Hotch and what it could mean…
I know I prefer to not see romance on this show because it allows the fans to see things their way, it allows the fans to ship whoever they want and to imagine for themselves what might be going on behind closed doors.
I didn’t like the whole Reid/Lila Archer thing, same thing with Reid/Austin (the bartender in ’52 pickup’). I didn’t find it convincing and I don’t want to see a repeat of that.
Some fans also hated the whole Morgan/Tamara story after ‘Hopeless’.
I never like scenes where they are hints of a relationship between one of the men and a beautiful woman they have very conveniently met in a middle of a case (said woman showing obvious interest in one of them, namely Morgan or Reid).
I don’t feel connected to this other characters. The writers will never have the time to develop the relationship in a convincing way, so in the end it always feels as if it came out of left field.
And I like to think they could find someone while NOT being on a case, for a change (I just don’t need to see it).
Just like Caroline mentioned there was a scene with Elle in ‘Charm and Harms’ where Morgan teased her because he thought she might be seeing someone (and it looked like she was).
The great thing is that we never got to see who she might be dating (not even a name).
I loved that, it allowed us to make up our own mind about who she might have been dating.
I prefer that, and I like the fact that the profilers have a private life and that we don’t get to see everything. In my opinion, leaving things to our imagination is better when romance is concerned.
If they really wanted to hint at a new romance on the show for one of the main characters, I would prefer it to be something like that. A slight suspicion than one of them might be seeing someone, without showing us that person and without telling us who he or she is.
At least, every fan would be able to make up his or her own mind and imagine who could be the partner (or if there’s even a partner to begin with).
Now, what the writers can convey in a convincing way is the relationship between the team members. Their friendship and solidarity, the “family feel” of the team. All of that feels real, at least to me, because we know the characters and we are attached to them, we feel connected to these characters.
So, given the limited amount of time the writers have, I want them to focus on that and not on romance.
Mahele, good point! Plus, i think the hotch/prentiss shippers actually scared the writers to the point of making them run from ANY sort of interaction between the two characters. It was almost as if the two were kept as far apart as possible (post '100'), people wouldn't get the 'wrong' idea. In the end, we lost what could have been a very interesting, albeit platonic, relationship between the two characters. While i don't see any special chemistry between tg and pb that is not there between pb and mgg or tg and mgg, i do think the characters of hotch and prentiss are good together (take it any way you want - friends, colleagues, whatever). The writers seemed much more comfy giving JJ/Hotch some lovely moments - these moments were strong, beautifully written/acted, meaningful and heart-breaking precisely because i think the writers weren't trying to either set them up or run in the opposite direction. These moments were simply what they were. It's a shame because a hotch/prentiss friendship would have been great, imo.
I really enjoyed reading everyone's posts today. A lot of interesting and insightful ideas.
Is it today the day Paget Brewster decides, or better, tells CBS if she's coming back to Criminal Minds or not?
I think it is.
I hope she's coming back, I really miss Emily and I would love to see the repercussions of her return for the team.
COME BACK, PAGET, PLEASE!
Nothing really should be viewed as out of character for Hotch. For a man who’s been blown-up, stabbed nine times, divorced, stalked, and had his wife murdered-- and all of that happened before Prentiss’ untimely and orchestrated disappearance. What is out of character is that Hotch is still in character. Hotch should be a character in transition or one that is slightly off-balanced. There should be a few kinks visible in the armor; but for him to continue virtually unscathed with no small changes in his character, is more out of character and unrealistic.
The quote from Hanley Waters was, “Man, when he does not grieve, hardly exists.” The way the writers have portrayed Hotch is more of a caricature than a real person. I’m sure if they gave Thomas Gibson the lines, he could ingeniously add nuance and layers to the character to reflect that all the the trauma in his life has enabled his character to evolve, not merely remain the same. I’m hoping this is what Erica Messer will bring as showrunner—more realism and ingenuity, and less focus on the unsub and the glorification of the violence and the gore. Taking these things into consideration, a hug for JJ would have been a subtle reflection of Hotch’s growth or evolution. And as his dedicated 6-year employee, friend and family member who was being forced out against her will, a hug would have done them both some good.
For those who say 42 to 44 minutes is not enough time to incorporate warmth, romance, love, and affection, whatever you want to call it; a good writer can spin a well-tuned story in less than 30 minutes. The Big Bang Theory is a good example of how good writers can incorporate love and romance by simple innuendo, suggestion and clever and witty dialogue. What makes it even more adventurous is that the words are being spoken by awkward nerds who typically have difficulty embracing the most basic of human interactions—all in less than 30 minutes.
If CM cutback on the unsub-focus and the need to show more graphic violence and misogyny towards women, there may be time to portray the characters with a little more realism, profiling, character development, not necessarily romance.
And Mahële, you make a good point that if it’s not the couple I ship, I would be very disappointed. But I’d still be more respectful of the writers and the show for taking realistic risks rather than double-downing on the ridiculous. It would not drive me away so long as the characters, especially Hotch, remain on the show. However, statistics have shown that many people in high-stressed, competitive environments meet their partners in those environments simply because they are more compatible. I know this from personal experience.
However, I really want Thomas and Paget to return regardless if they are together or not and will watch CM until it goes off the air even if it maintains its current formula. And frankly, based on the writing from Season 6, I’m not sure that many of the current writers are capable of pulling off something that requires cleverness, sophistication and nuance.
BTW, I’m not trying to belabor the point—just wanted to add my two cents to an interesting discussion.
There has hardly been any real evolution of character in Minds for a long time, and it would take a lot of effort from the writers to achieve that. It should happen, and should have happened already, but unfortunately it hasn't. They have the actors definitely to pull off some great things but they have all been underused, this season and in the second half of S5, in my opinion. Hotch should have had an apocalyptic moment after '100', not just within that episode, but it didn't happen. I sometimes wonder how he, or any of the characters, actually find it in themselves to get out of bed in the morning.
On another note, Hotch has coiled up more and more as the seasons have progressed. Without a visible breaking point, a flying-out-of-orbit moment, i don't think i can picture him being drawn out of his shell suddenly. The Prentiss arc if handled maturely can open a lot of doors for all the characters to explore emotions that they seem to have bottled up. But if neither Prentiss nor Hotch turns up next season, it'd all come to naught. Reid desrves more than headaches, Morgan and Garcia more than their chatter, Rossi more than his choric voice, JJ more than legs (sorry i just can't get over how badly that played out for me), and Sevaer more than what they have dished out till now. Prentiss, well i hope she just comes back...then we'll talk.
sdwally,
Romance is so subjective.
I think we could make a case for all the different pairings on the show.
They have all shared strong moments and events that could make us wonder “what if”.
So, at some point, we need to take off the pink colored glasses and to not expect romantic feelings to develop from the slightest interactions.
“however, statistics have shown that many people in high-stressed, competitive environments meet their partners in those environments simply because they are more compatible”
Hotch meeting someone in his work environment doesn’t mean it would have to be someone on his team. Someone on the FBI with another demanding and stressful job would fit the description, and the statistics would be respected.
My point is actually simple : romance on this show is a double edged sword.
Some fans want romance but end up really disappointed by what they see.
No matter what this show does, the fans who want to see romance have a specific view on what should happen. But the show, given its format, will never be able to leave up to a lot of shipper’s expectations (no matter what couple they ship).
On a side note, I wasn’t talking about you personally here.
I still think it would be much better to leave romance aside for the main characters, or to just do something like they did with Elle (just giving a hint about a possible relationship but not telling us or not showing us who the love interest is).
A big NO on the romance between characters on Criminal Minds for me. Let's keep the romance up to the each individual member of the audience, please. Mahële, you said it best regarding that subject for me, thanks :)
Maureen, is today the deadline for Paget letting them know whether she will come back to the show or not? If so, I will just copy and paste what you said, "COME BACK, PAGET, PLEASE!" I miss Paget/Prentiss beyond what words can convey here. The show has not been the same without her. A piece of the CM heart died when she left, as it did when AJ left, and I'd like it to come back, along with some solid writing. A piece of the CM heart also includes Thomas who I am not going to start freaking out about now. All I will say is that he had better be there season 7. I want the team back...PLEASE!!! Hotch, Morgan, Rossi, Reid, Garcia, Prentiss, and JJ, PLEASE!
I hope JJ doesn't come back as some cold and stiff "super- charged" version of her former self. I get that the character has probably changed, matured, and gotten more experience in her time away. However, that doesn't mean she necessarily lost that strong, experienced, professional, yet soft-edge that made JJ, well, JJ. She doesn't have to be cold and/or rigid to convey that she has matured both personally and professionally. Oh, and before I forget, can we please get back to genius Dr. Reid. Reid's genius is what makes him stand apart from the rest of the team, not sad headache guy. How I dread the possibility of the whole Reid headache storyline coming back up in season 7. Can't we give that storyline two aspirins and call it a day?
Paget, PLEASE COME BACK! Okay, that will be my final plea for Paget to return to the show... this hour...
Happy Memorial Day weekend everybody! A big thank you to all of our service men and women!
I find all this conversation thoroughly delightful. It is like everyone is bringing their own impressions to the table and we are tossing out ideas but discussing them in an enjoyable way. No debate. No accusations. No hate. I could start liking this. Feel free to continue...:)
I have nothing more to add to my previous post re: the romance angle except to say to Caroline that when I say "little peeks", I mean as we have seen before. It could be 30 sec to one minute and still represent a personal life which I think is accurate and important. Plus it endears the character to me more because I feel that I KNOW them better..I feel closer to them. Back to the family element many have mentioned and what we all love.
Cindy, thanks for your timely remarks about the Memorial Day weekend. Having just waited 4 hours for my son-in-law's return from Afghanistan, at Camp Pendleton here, nite before last, and seeing that look of sheer joy to see his wife (my daughter) and his new baby girl for the first time was priceless. It brought all of us to tears, including the photographer. Unless you have a close friend or family member in the military, I don't think you can quite appreciate the magnitude and the reality of it all.
Happy Memorial Day to everyone!
Gubegirl - thank you for sharing that about your life. I feel teary-eyed and honoured that you'd do that. Sending you and your family love, wishes and all things good. God bless....
Absolutely, thank you Gubegirl – Ditto Eleven’s post above.
I’ve been out to the DFW Airport several times to welcome home service men and women; all strangers to me, but it is always a heart warming experience.
Cindy and Eleven, thank you.
I really think that the moments shared by the team members make for the most meaningful scenes on the show.
And Cindy, I completely agree with you. Reid deserves so much more than a storyline about headaches. I was interested at first, but since it went nowhere I really don’t want the writers to go back to that story.
I too want to see Reid the genius ! I hope that his next storyline will focus on that aspect of the character (and not on romance). His genius hasn’t been really highlighted in a long time, and I hope we’ll see much more of that in season seven.
Gubegirl, I’m sending my best wishes to your family.
For Eleven, mjf1311 and Mahele:
TY for your well wishes. We appreciate them very much. That my son-in-law came home just before the Memorial Day weekend is so fitting. We are crossing our fingers for no rain this wkend so they can enjoy the pool & sunshine - "just right" feeling weather - unlike the freezing cold or blazing heat in Afghanistan! I can't wait to see baby Sophia in a little rubber duckie floatie - she's 6 months on Monday - Memorial Day!
Sorry, mfj1311: I transposed the letters in your screen name! Once again, TTF! (typing too fast!)
Paget posted on her twitter
"I like leotards. And cheese. And red lipstick. Oh! And Free Will. I really like Free Will..."
Most people are taking this as a sign that she is not coming back.
To be perfectly honest, I agree.
What a shame, I would love to have the team back together, but it's realistic to think that what CBS broke can't just be fixed. And I understand if she is just done with the show.
Damn, CBS! Why did you have to ruin perfection?
But hasn't she always had free will to come back to the show or not Amy?
Amy, not good, now I'm worried. Of course, she has always had free will. But the intonation here is kinda like the writing on the wall. Means "read between the lines," without spelling it right out. YET. Hopefully she is taking her time, her FREE time and still has awhile to give them an answer and sign back on. That's the optimist in me talking.
I thought that with AJ returning with such enthusiasm and PB's pilot not getting picked up, she would seriously consider returning.
But as much as we want her to, we cannot blame her (and AJ more but she admitted she had her family to consider) after the way CBS and all the mucky-mucks treated her, I do not blame her. How can they take back their former stupid actions? I would love to smack all that had any part of this "refresh the show" business - I bet they are eating their words now and holding their breaths too!
I wonder if RN staying has any bearing on her decision - I sure the h--- hope not. I wonder if TG not signing has turned PB off.
A-A-A-G-G-G-H-H-H!
Oh. Paget, please reconsider! We love you so much; you are so perfect in this role and have such a strong family unit going for you: both on the show and your fandom. PLEASE! (We can only hope she is reading this. I don't mind begging one tiny bit. I may even add a Hail Mary or two to the mix while crossing the fingers, toes, legs, etc.)
sdwally: did you have anything you care to add, GF?
You guys are getting that from a tweet? I want her to come back, really bad, but how are you getting all that you wrote here from a tweet gubegirl? I'm not trying to be combative, just curious.
Because of her last tweet I think Paget is not coming back to CM.
I hate CBS more than ever!
I remember May 28th being the day that Paget has to give word to the network about whether she is coming back or not. 140 characters is not sufficent enough to send me into a tizzy. There has been too much walking on egg shells already with Paget and Thomas. Let's wait until at least tomorrow to hear what is going on with Paget. There is no guarantee that word will come out tomorrow but tomorrow is deadline so I'm hoping there will be word tomorrow.
I desire with all my heart that Paget return to CM and am glad that she has the free will to decide what she wants to do. I hope that includes CM.
I must admit I was a little confused by Paget’s tweet about Free Will, especially since she’s always had it. CBS has held out the olive branch to her for sometime; and she used the opportunity afforded by the debacle created by the network, to explore pilot options, all the time knowing that the CM fans were supporting her decision, but still hopeful of her return.
I love Paget as if she were one of my girlfriends. I’ll be extremely disappointed if she decides not to return. I clung to the hope that she’ll be gracing my TV screen as Prentiss until CM is no more; but this has been a painful process for both Paget and the fans. If she decides not to come back, we will have mourned the loss of Paget/Prentiss on at least 4 separate occasions.
We mourned her when it was first announced that AJ had been let go and Paget’s episodes had been reduced. We signed petitions, sent letters and emails, and made phone calls; in an attempt to get CBS to rescind its decision.
Even though CBS changed its mind about Paget, she maintained her status and opted to leave CM; so we mourned her loss once again at the end of Lauren as she clandestinely walked away from our view leaving us all pained because we understood it may have been the last time we’d see her if she landed a pilot with another network, making her return to CM impossible.
We mourned her once again when we read the Deadline announcement that Paget had landed an NBC pilot and would leave CM if her pilot was picked up. With every announcement, we held our collective breath and held on to the hope of Paget’s return, but we nervously understood that her happiness may be found elsewhere.
If Paget opts not to return now, I’m not sure how I will feel. There’s no longer the pilot prospect; and the CBS treatment has always been a nonissue for me because most employers aren’t any better. People who work in an industry should understand it, especially if they choose to remain a part of it.
We’ve hung on to the hope of getting Paget back for what seems like an eternity. Now that she’s not encumbered by pilot or process, if she chooses to walk away, I think it will be more hurtful because we’ve hung on for so long. But at least it will be the final time we’ll have to mourn. I mean four times really is way too many times to go through emotional upheaval about a character, even if the person playing the role has come to be like family. We finally will be put out of our misery, and the decision will be Paget’s choice.
I’m more pained about what’s happening with Thomas Gibson who has constantly expressed his desire to return to CM and whose potential loss cannot be underscored enough. He for me is simply irreplaceable. So even if Paget were a part of the CM framework, Thomas out of the picture would end my CM viewing.
I’m hoping CBS has dragged this matter out for effect; and that at least by the beginning of next week, we get news that both Thomas and Paget will return. I’ve also been gauging the comments or lack of comments from Jill, the blog owner, who no longer provides updates on Thomas’ contract status. I’m hoping that indicates she knows something and simply is not in a position to share. I’m certain that if she thought Thomas’ CM existence were really in jeopardy, she would have assembled an army by now.
sdwally Jill the blog owner posted this week that Thomas still does not have a contract. Also Jill is friends with the CM cast and if they choose to leave she probably will support their decision. She probably won't raise any red flags.
There is an army assembled and working on the situation.
Lastly, I would not openly comment at this point on either the situation with Paget or Thomas since both are friends and I will respect any/all decisions they make.
The army must be behind the scenes which is so cool.
Why an army? If Paget and Thomas don't come back it will be because they chose not to come back. That's a decision I would respect and support, but I've got family and friends who are currently having to decide whether to put gas in their cars or food on their table so please forgive me if I have no desire to feel sorry for or enraged over a man and a woman who made a conscious choice to walk away from a job that paid them more for one episode than most people make in a year.
Neither one of them are victims and I doubt they'd want people to feel that they are. They are making choices that are best for them and if that choice is to walk away then I respect that wish them the best. I'll stop watching CM of course, not because I'll be angry, but because the show simply does not appeal to me without Hotch at the helm.
sf81387 I don't think anyone here sees Thomas or Paget as victims. At least that has never been my impression. And you're right of course, there are more important issues in our lives than whether a character returns to a tv show or not.
I'm not sure about "it's their own decision" though. With Paget it seems like it's mainly up to her at the moment whether she returns or not. Thomas always stressed out he wants to come back, so the decision is mainly up to ABC, the network he is negotiating with. So it's not his decsision, at least no entirely, if he leaves. IMHO, they should give Thomas what he asks for.
For us fans, who love to spend an hour a week watching our favorite characters on the screen, it is not entirely unimportant whether these characters come back or not. I'm sure it's the same for you, you're a fan too. It's our escape from reality so to speak. So some fans just need to vent or rant or engage in building up an army to try and help keep Thomas on the show. I personally don't see anything wrong with that.
I'll always respect and support Thomas and Paget whether it's their decision or not. But one thing is clear, like you, I'll stop watching CM without Hotch. No Hotch/TG = no CM for me.
Sorry to hear that about your family and friends though. I hope their situation will get better soon.
I get that this is a great escape from real life and I get that people feel passionate about these characters. I want Thomas to come back as much as anyone. What I don't get is the idea that armies need to be raised to fight for them. They aren't being fired. If they weren't being offered their jobs there wouldn't be negotiations taking place, so yes, in the end, if Thomas chooses to leave it will be because he chose to not because ABC chose for him to leave. If they aren't offering him whatever it is that he wants and he feels like it's in his best interest to move on then I respect that and wish him well, but he's been offered a job and it is his choice to take it or not. It's not personal. It's just business and sometimes the two parties find a happy middle ground and sometimes they don't, but to suggest the network is responsible for his departure just because he didn't get he wanted is a bit naive I think. If I go ask my employer for a raise on Tuesday and they say no and I quit, is it my employer's fault I don't have a job on Wednesday or is it mine for deciding I needed a better situation for myself?
Tensions are just soaring at this point for some people and it appears that there is just an infinite loop of going around in circles. At this point, all we can do is see what happens. It is up to Thomas and Paget whether they'd like to return to the show or not. We do not have any control over the outcome. What we do have control over is how we will each individually react to whatever Thomas and Paget decide. I know some people who stopped watching the show as soon as Paget left (others who stopped way back when AJ was fired). Personally, I want both Thomas and Paget to return the show. CM will not be the same for me without either of them there. Season 6 for me has been horrific and I am not going to sit through another season like this past one. I will say this, if the Seaver character returns for season 7, no matter what happens with either Thomas or Paget, I will immediately stop watching CM. I'm sorry, but there is only so much I can take. That is my own personal line drawn in the sand. I'm sure others have theirs and all any of us can do is see whether what happens season 7 will cause us to draw our individual lines in the sand if there are lines to be drawn for some people.
Neither. Or both. I just think it's not so easy to say who's decision it is. If you ask for a raise and maybe some extras - unless you're being completely unreasonable, which I don't think you are - and you deserve this raise because you do a good job and your employer can afford to pay you this raise, then I'd put more fault with the employer if he declines your demands. And if that ends in you quitting your job, I'd still put more fault with your employer because it is your good right to seek out a better situation.
Thomas deserves the raise, ABC can afford it, we know they can, and I doubt he's completely unreasonable with what he demands, so it's mainly up to ABC and if Thomas doesn't get a contract, I personally would put more fault with the network.
Neither you nor I earn remotely as much money in a year as what Thomas had made per episode in the past 6 years, so I see where the difference is. If we lose our jobs it's much more life-threatenig than it would be for Thomas. Still people are passionate about the show and the characters, namely Hotch in this instance. By putting up an "army" they maybe just execute some democracy on tv. We are allowed to say what we think, what we like or dislike. We are allowed to vote who runs the country, why shouldn't we also try and let networks know what we think about their decisions regarding a show we spend hours of our personal time on?
Urg, I'm tired and sorry if I'm not able to convey what I want to say properly. I understand your position, but - while I might not engage in this "army" myself - I don't see anything wrong with people doing it.
LunaM, I do agree with you in the sense that ABC Studios/CBS (not sure who pays out the salaries) indeed has the money to pay these actors within reason. I doubt that Thomas is asking for a Sheen like payout of 2 million per episode and quite frankly these actors have been getting low balled for years considering the success of the show, along with the revenue the show has earned for both ABC Studios and CBS.
So Thomas has an army working for him and he still does not have a contract. What gives
I don't know if Paget is a Rush fan, but there is a song by Rush called Free Will. I think this would sort of fall in line with the tone of her tweet. I don't know. I just want her back on CM.
LunaM - I think that any of us at any time should ask for anything we think we want or even deserve, but in the end it is our decision to walk away if the situation isn't to our liking. The employer may or may not suffer the impact of our decision to walk, but that is, in my opinion, where their responsibility ends. I doubt Thomas is being unreasonable and I doubt the network executives are being unreasonable. My guess is that the two parties have different definitions of what is considered "reasonable". That doesn't make either party right or wrong, but possibly at an impasse.
In my opinion, there's nothing to fight for here. It's out of our hands. All we can do is be supportive of TG and hope for the best. If it doesn't work out, it doesn't.
I am happy to agree to disagee at this point though because it's just opinions and there are is no right or wrong here either, just different points of view. : )
sf81387 said...
“Why an army? If Paget and Thomas don't come back it will be because they chose not to come back.”
Army is simply a metaphor for all the people available to pitch in to work the system on Thomas’ behalf. I view Thomas’ and Paget’s situations differently; for me Paget’s is a choice, an exercising of her “Free Will.” If she chooses to leave after all the letters, petitions, emails phone calls, and pleas for her return; that’s her decision to make; and there is nothing left for us to do or should do.
On the other hand, Thomas’ untimely departure would be another demonstration of the lack of appreciation for the contribution he has made. I don’t know what if any sticking points there are; but I know that the networks have given far more to others who have contributed very little, had less success and demonstrated themselves to be less worthy.
So if the word “army” offends you; or yours and your family’s circumstances dictate that you place your priorities elsewhere; like Paget said, we all have free will to do so. My comment about Jill’s assembling an army is meant for those who would commit time to write, email, telephone, and/or sign petitions in support of Thomas. I would be available to do what is necessary to lobby on his behalf. With all the time I’ve spent on this blog and twitter in support of CM and the cast; the letters and emails I wrote in support of Paget and AJ, a few extra minutes in support of TG would not be too much to ask.
And Jill, I wouldn’t expect you to divulge any secrets or discussions between you and the cast. It’s because I know you’re close to them that I believe you’ll give us the word if we need to do something in support of them.
So if the word “army” offends you
Well, it didn't until just now. ; )
Oh hooray, no more complaining about Ashley Seaver. There might just be a Santa after all.
Is there any chance we could get a new thread for comments? Please. This one is getting buried too deep on the page.
Pagetista is back!!!!!!! Love it!!!
Oh my God, I can't wait to see her and the rest of the team season 7!!!!!
Alright CBS, don't start fronting, you've got to sign my man Thomas Gibson back on. Thomas Gibson has been an asset to the show since day 1! When Mandy left, some people thought it was a wrap, but Thomas Gibson stepped up to the plate and more than proved himself in the role of Unit Chief. A true leading actor is one that can fill the gap, and then some, for someone that was positioned to be the head star of the show. Hotch is the glue that cements all of the rest of the characters together. He's got to be there season 7!
Get TG signed, get the writing correct, and let's get it for season 7!!!
i wanna meet shemar moore......oh boy oh boy....he is the only reason that i watched season 6 even after knowing that jj will be leaving...........................
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