Criminal Minds spoiler thread for "Supply & Demand" starring Joe Mantegna, Thomas Gibson, Shemar Moore, Matthew Gray Gubler, Kirsten Vangsness and Rachel Nichols.
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«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 400 of 517 Newer› Newest»The writers wanted a whole different character, then the experienced one.
I like that the writers is not affraid of doing new things. Seaver is a great character and will only become stronger from each episode.
Does anyone know what was it about 'strapped down' that alerted Rossi to the ring-leader? Was it her age? The others were older so she obviously hadn't been held for as long???
I think it was because the previous victims hadn't been bound and none of the victims they rescued were bound.
As for Reid's lack of time, MGG was in New York most of the days they were shooting this episode.
I thought Hotch had plenty of screen time last night and I really liked his interaction with Andi Swan. If TG comes back maybe she can return because they were pretty good together.
I liked the story and I liked Rossi and Morgan working together. Liked that for once Morgan had to be rescued and that it was Rossi that rescued him and that Morgan returned the favor. I liked the Garcia and Kevin scenes.
It wasn't a bad episode, I just hated that ending scene. It was so stupid. For JJ to all of the sudden be meeting with Rossi about coming back to work was just stupid when you consider the character's history with Hotch, the fact that Hotch was and still would be her boss and would be the one deciding whether or not she comes back and the fact that the decision to leave or come back was never hers or Rossi's to make.
Instead of shoving Rossi in to do the scene just in case Hotch doesn't return, they should've just canned the scene all together or had the balls to just go forward with it the way it was intended and write their way out of it later if Thomas doesn't return. It's just so lame that the writers expect viewers to swallow something so stupid, much less be excited over it.
sf81387: I had totally forgotten about MGG going off to NYC. He was there for Tribeca and the release of "Magic Valley". Sheesh, how could I have forgotten that. I remember now that he finished filming several days before the rest of the cast and I remember now thinking it was nice of the producers to work that out for him.
Sort of how they worked it out for TG to be out of the episode "25 to Life". He went to the UK to play in a golf tournament. I missed him, but I definitely didn't begrudge him a bit of mid-season fun.
I think the reason that last scene jangled so many people's nerves is that it was thrown in last minute after AJC signed her contract for 2 years. They wanted to work that angle in somehow.
I've settled it in my mind that Rossi is being sneaky, trying to help take the load off Hotch's back. He's had too dang much stress and maybe this is Rossi's way of helping out? It seems to fit his character somehow, but then, that's just me.
MGG was not in New York during the filming. He went there the first week of the hiatus to attend the Tribeca Film Festival in New York for the premiere of his new movie "The Magic Valley"
Actually, if you follow MGG and the various other cast/crew members on Twitter... he WAS finished filming his scenes on Thursday/Friday while the rest were still there on Monday/Tuesday finished up. Therefore, it's a reasonable explanation for his lack of screen time, sorta like the episode that was filmed just before his Japan trip. He disappeared during the last scenes in it as well. I think it was 'Thirteenth Step'?
Also, I'm also taking this point on JJ's return. Yes, they 'made' her leave, BUT as noted in 'Lauren', she seems to have developed 'a set'.
This goes along with AJC's interview where she stated that JJ would be back, made of harder/sterner stuff but still with a heart. Therefore, in my head, while away, she's made a name for herself at the Pentagon/State Dept. (whatever) and now has the clout to do whatever the crap she wants.
My head goes weird places to explain things . . .
The ratings just came in--12.5 million. Wow, what a drop. And the fact that the finale wasn't in an urgent "What's gonna happen next" mode nor did it have a compelling cliffhanger may cause lower ratings for season 7.
Even if the show's quality does improve, and we get TG renewed and maybe PB back, if seaver still stays, I think the ratings are going to decline.
On another note, the now-cancelled spin-off got only 8.3 million.
gubegirl: It never ceases to amaze me how people think they can comment on a show and expect it to fly like scripture when it's painfully obvious they've never watched more than on episode, much less a season (or 2).
Gosh, I haven't been able to find the ratings for last week's episode yet. From what I've learned about the ratings is that the first one's in on Thursday have yet to count DVR's yet. They always go up a bit after that.
I'd still like to find last week's ratings, but my usual source is still on the week before!
I don't know much about tv ratings and whatnot, but while 12.5 million is a bit low, that 3.3 18-49 rating seems solid to me.
For the week ending May 8, CM had 12.9 million viewers, came in at #9 (#4 scripted show), so 12.5 is not such a big drop, especially since we don't have the results from the DVR viewers yet.
Do you have the numbers from the week ending May 15? I keep a record to see the ebb and flow. Season-to-date, CM has been holding steady at #10 (#4 scripted show).
Not too shabby for a show that's seen such drama, etc.
I think the reason that last scene jangled so many people's nerves is that it was thrown in last minute after AJC signed her contract for 2 years. They wanted to work that angle in somehow.
I've settled it in my mind that Rossi is being sneaky, trying to help take the load off Hotch's back. He's had too dang much stress and maybe this is Rossi's way of helping out? It seems to fit his character somehow, but then, that's just me.
It was not a scene that was inserted at the last minute, that's the problem. It had been planned for awhile and it was written as a scene between Hotch and JJ in which all she says is "they need to talk". They changed the scene because they are allowing real life to affect what they are putting on screen.
As for JJ growing a set and demanding anything that's nonsense. If Hotch and Strauss weren't in the position to demand JJ be left with the BAU in what universe would JJ suddenly have that kind of clout?
The scene as originally written would've been fine because you had no idea what JJ wanted to talk about and they could've built on that next season, but as it stands, Rossi is apparently pulling strings he didn't have access to months ago when JJ was forced to leave and now JJ has a choice in all of it. DUMB.
Oh, and the ratings for the week ended May 8 were for a new episode that followed 2 weeks of reruns. Traditionally, a new episode will rank a bit lower coming off a couple of weeks of reruns . . . makes sense in an odd sort of way. Me, just makes me more anxious to watch.
Anonymous,
CM ratings were up compared to last season according to variety. last year final had 12.97 million viewers and a 3.1, this year 12.53 million viewers and 3.3 and those are NOT the final ratings. So CM was up in the only measurements that counts the demo.
Also, for those paying attention to ratings, last year there was 35% of households using a DVR this year almost 45%. More people DVR shows ( especially scripted shows that goes against reality TV) than watch live and the ratings that were reported this morning are some of the partial live ratings. So yes, all shows are down in total LIVE viewers compared to last year or even the start of this TV season. ex: NCIS went from 23 million viewers to 18.08 but NCIS, like CM, is one of the most DVRed show.
niteanjl,
all ratings for every shows are here http://pifeedback.com/ and for DVR + 7 days look at tvbythenumbers
Sorry, I had no idea how the scene was originally written . . . I don't have access to that kind of knowledge. If you do, that's great and thanks for sharing. With all the scrambling with the contract negotiations, it's not hard to believe they did squirrelly things with the scripts.
I never had it in my head the Strauss fought to keep JJ. Maybe I misheard, took it differently, who knows. I honestly don't think she'd do anything the help Hotch out. If anything, she'd push to get JJ out, if only to undermine Hotch and the team a bit more, since it's obvious she's threatened by him.
In 'Lauren', the way JJ walked in, with that look in her eye and said "Let's get to work" and the way she 'handled' Prentiss at the end of that episode, it seems she has developed clout of some kind, or at least has made powerful friends.
Who knows, it's TV Land and real world logic seldom applies.
Ha ha.. I love that you call yourself CM fan not in charge, I get why because of the confusion that happened on another thread :)
Thanks for the link. Going to go there shortly :)
Thanks CMNIC. I've looked high and low for a good source of the Nielsen ratings, but they act like it's a matter of national security! Sheesh!
zap2it has been really good about keeping up with the top 20 on a weekly basis & on the season-to-date, but for some reason, they've dropped the ball . . .
With all the scrambling with the contract negotiations, it's not hard to believe they did squirrelly things with the scripts.
That's just it. What is displayed on screen should not imitate real life. They should be telling fresh stories and not allowing any of that drama to seep in and you certainly shouldn't insert scenes that contradict everything that's been said and done in the past just because one of your actors in the middle of a contract negotiation.
In 'Lauren', the way JJ walked in, with that look in her eye and said "Let's get to work" and the way she 'handled' Prentiss at the end of that episode, it seems she has developed clout of some kind, or at least has made powerful friends.
You mean the way that the JJ who had been jettisoned to the DoD against her will showed up working for the State Department in order to make her presence fit into the story? I didn't get the sense that she'd developed anymore clout than what she had with the BAU.
Ratings for the week ending May 15 are: 13,292 and rank #9 (#4 scripted show). Source: Nielsen Ratings. Taking from a German online TVmagazine
Ah, well, I guess we can agree to disagree... no harm, no foul.
In a way, it sort of does resemble real life in a twisted, pretzel logic sort of way...any branch or dept. in government is NEVER going to make sense! LOL!
Sorry, I couldn't help myself. That thought just occurred to me!
Am I the only one thinking people didn't watch cause the contract problems made it even unpleasant to do, without knowing what comes next? maybe it's me.
According to the experts, this year's finale saw a 6 percent increase over last year's finale, which I can see. Last year's finale was pretty awful. This finale wasn't awful, it just ended stupid. That's based on the 3.3 demo, which is apparently the only thing that matters.
sf81387: Now that's something we can agree on. I, as a rule, really hate two-parters and season finales just drive me crazy. (I'm a tad too OCD). Last season's finale was not my favorite. I think I'd have taken an explosion, car crash, anything to the creepiest/grossest unsub ever (nothing against Tim Curry)!
At least the ratings were solid.
To all of you asking/looking for the ratings:
First, advice from someone (me) badly mislead by all the crap they post/comment at pifeedback.com: forget about them, Marc Berman claims to be an all-knowing ratings wise and then goes and shows he doesn't have the first clue (he's a fist class fanboy!)
Second, in the US the number that matters above all else is the demo A18-49, as advertisers pay their fees depending on how strong it's. Sadly for viewers whose ages are outside that bracket, total viewers don't matter at all.
Third, if you want a place to keep track of ratings, being CM or any other show, go here: http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/ The owners are crash, sound like know-it-alls too and have very little patience with BS, but they don't sugarcoat real bad ratings, praise real good ratings and their most important trait, they really understand how the US ratings system work (and it's fairly easy to find ratings from weeks past ;)
As for this week, CM has got a 3.3 in preliminary ratings, up from last week episode. Right now is tied for #2 CBS drama with NCIS:LA. Later today, we'll get the final numbers (nothing to do with DVR) and it can get that #2 all by itself.
Anonymous: I don't think you're entirely wrong. I think ALL of the behind the scenes crap has affected everyone's viewing pleasure.
Maria, I've been trying to get the Nielsen ratings for the week of May 9-15, but zap2it hasn't updated, unless they've just done it. That's were I usually go for my ratings info . .
niteanjl, thanks for making me feel less alone. I didn't want to be insulting, I just skipped yesterday's episode cause the thought that it could be the start of the end of hotch character upset me to the guts.
I'm not saying everyone is like me, but I think all the uncertainty makes it bad for some people.
As a finale, it was a bit of a dud but a nice shout-out to Andy Swan.I think I heard it said 6 times by everyone but Seaver and Reid.
Yep, the title is reflective to how CBS also treats their actors like the kidnapped kids... to be bought, used, abused, and cast off like yesterday's garbage. Thanks a lot CBS for picking up season 7 of CM with still no contract for TG. What a slap in the face!!!
Not enough Reid in this one cuz so much time was spent on the other agents and the unsubs.
It was too easy a cheat to have a link to all the bars and the place they were holding the kids be all under one name. Ya think a clever crook wouldn't have a trail that easy to follow.
What was the power that little girl have over those big brawny men??? And where did she hide that gun when she was only wearing underwear???????? She must have had one big-a$$ panties!!
Cute family touches were nice between the team members.
If Reid is going for late night Indian food, I hope he brings that antacid if he still has a stomach problem.
Hoping that season 7 will have renewed resources to bring back TG, PB, and dump the extra blondie and still have solid writing.Fingers crossed.
Maria: And you know, it's a dang shame they don't count those of us who fall outside the upper # on that range. Most of us DO have some extra $$ to spend . . .
babruin: <> you're right about the antacids. But I hark back to the episode where he's eating them like candy and Prentiss says something about dairy again and he remarks, 'but I like dairy'
Could be the same with the Indian food. I sort of speak from experience. I have a wonky gallbladder but I still eat the things I like. I pay for it later, but I still do it. My husband just expects me to complain from another room.
Also, since I suffer from migraines myself, I think part of his stomach problems result from the headaches. They make you very nauseous . . .
This was a strange episode for me. I don’t mind the lack of a serious cliffhanger or not ending the season with a member of the team in jeopardy. It was a nice change of pace, and reminded me more of the second season ending, in the sense that the case story was wrapped up, but the true fate of the BAU team members was left up in the air. But unfortunately for much of this episode, Criminal Minds felt like a more standard police procedural and less a show that truly delves into the psychology of the criminals. I thought the subject of human trafficking was fascinating and was looking forward to seeing what the show would do with it, but I’m not sure if the way this story was told was really grounded in reality. We really didn’t get any insight into the minds of human traffickers or their motives, or insights into the customers or victims. I can’t recall much if any profiling in this story at all. And I felt it was a bit of a leap to jump to human trafficking as the cause behind all these disappearances. This episode seemed more focused on action and heroics than true thought. At times it reminded sort of like Fight Club, only with girls. It was interesting to watch the heroics, but it didn’t always feel real to me. I mean first Rossi saves Morgan from getting his butt handed to him by a huge thug, and then Morgan returns the favor by killing the unsub before she could shoot Rossi. Really?
Since the story didn’t really engage me like I hoped it would, I had to focus on the character interactions. Hotch was particularly solemn, but I guess that would be the case when the team cohesion is in jeopardy. I thought the reference back to Gideon’s abandonment as the last time Hotch called an early meeting was a good link to the idea that some of the team might leave. This of course set up next season plausibly in case some of the team members don’t return. Since this episode didn’t end in a cliffhanger, if someone (like Hotch) leaves, the show could just pick up some time down the road.
I wonder what the writers are thinking with Kevin and Penelope. I mean it’s obvious he is still madly in love with her, and has been since the moment they met. But I can’t figure out what Penelope is supposed to be feeling. She SAYS she loves him in return, but she certainly doesn’t act like it. She acts happier to see, talk to and spend time with Morgan. Is this deliberate on the writers’ part? I mean what is the point of keeping Kevin around if Penelope doesn’t seem to want him? Or is this a setup to cut him loose some time next season?
I wish Reid could have had more lines. In fact, I wish the writers had just given him Ashley’s lines and set her off in the corner to play with a ball of yarn. For some reason, she especially annoyed me this episode, and every time she talked, I tried very hard to tune her out, to prevent myself from yelling shut up at the screen. I was always very glad she never worked with Reid much in the past, but it was all about the two of them this episode, down to them going for Indian food at the end of the episode. I hope to never see that again. Though I really did enjoy Reid teasing Morgan about needing to work out. He so rarely jokes with anybody, that it is cute to see.
Now I really did like the character of Andi Swan. She reminded me of Katie from PS911. She was strong, smart, tough and driven. She is the type of female agent I would rather have working in the BAU, and she made me really miss Emily, because they were so similar. The ending with Rossi and JJ was cool, but a bit odd in the sense it reminded me of a spy movie or something. I wonder what kind of backdoor dealings the two of them have had together and what prompted JJ to return. I guess I just have to wait for next season to have all those questions answered.
Some of you bring up some very goods points which is why I'm glad I have a DVR. I like to go back and watch the episodes again, to see if I pick up on some of the same things you guys did. Or if I just see things differently than the night before.
Mainly, I like to re-watch to catch ANYTHING I might have missed.
Just wanted to thank everyone for their points and opinions. We don't all have to agree, but at least we can discuss it like adults, unlike on some boards where everyone usually devolves into brats . . .
This is the first season of CM I have seen all the way through, and the first finale I have seen in real time. I discovered CM last summer and in the interim before S6 began, I caught up on all 5 previous seasons.
I really enjoyed this episode actually. It was interesting to see Garcia struggle, and so sweet to see Kevin pointing out where they met (especially since I recently rewatched Penelope.) I liked the small ways that Morgan was there for her, too. I loved Reid's "3 years and 8 months ago," but was a little sad when he revealed that it was when Gideon left.
It was nice to see a little more Seaver. She really came across as a part of the team this time, rather than the newbie. I loved Rossi and Morgan so obviously having each other's backs, and JJ at the end, just made it that much more fabulous. That she came in at 2 AM because she "saw a light on" and that she and Rossi are in cahoots.
The character of Andi Swan was a nice tribute and a nice addition to the episode. And I LOVED the unsub and that she was someone unexpected. I thought she did really well!
I enjoyed the fact that while not everything was neatly resolved, it felt realistic. Also, I am glad to not have to wait an entire summer to see what character was killed or hospitalized or went through a trauma. It is nice to know that while they are in a state of transition, at least they are all relatively safe.
I miss Prentiss, and I hope Paget is able to come back and Thomas, as well. I am beyond thrilled that AJ will be returning as she has been an actress I have been a fan of for over a decade. She is the reason I started watching!
I look forward to Season 7! Here's to hoping it brings more fabulous team dynamics, some great backstories and features all of the team again!
LaShawna: Looking back, it seems that Seaver spends most of one episode with one agent or another. One or two episodes she shadowed Prentiss, another Morgan, another Rossi. So it sort of makes sense she worked more closely with Reid in this episode.
Too, they're closer in age, although I hope they DON'T go down the road they solemnly swore years ago they wouldn't. Having romance between team members. For one thing, it's against 'company policy' and I don't think Hotch would stand for anything that would ruin the effectiveness of the team.
For another thing, the producers, etc. said that this wasn't a soap opera, which romance would cause and take away from the show. MGG even (a few years ago), that they never planned to go there because the name of the show is CM, not Quantico 90210.
That being said, the network has gone off the rails so much of this season . . .
It's possible the others agreed to go eat, like they've done so many times before, but the rest of the scene ended up on the cutting room floor. They did seem to wander off screen a bit at that point.
@niteanjl
That place is associated with, but it's not Zap2it. They have those ratings you are looking for (go to shows - Criminal Minds - expand the ratings list and select Wed.finals)
The networks agree with you, most of them at least, but advertisers work under the assumption that "older" viewers are less impressionable by the BS that TV ads usually spout (they are right) and that they watch way more TV so they're easier to reach through the day outside primetime were they pay lower fees (I don't think they are right at all).
Thanks Maria, I'll give that a shot. I'm OCD enough I've been keeping track of the ups/downs, etc. and the reasons for it (re-runs, superbowl, etc.)
I agree, most advertiser are stupid. I may be older and less prone to falling for the BS, but I know what I like and am willing to spend money on it . . . like CM!!
Case wise this episode was really interesting. Solid case and Andy Swan was a great character (and a nice and touching homage to the real Andy Swan).
The idea of the team being in peril because of budget cuts interested me but it was completely left aside. We know it was written due to the uncertainty surrounding the cast, but I wish they had written it differently.
It was weird to have Hotch bring up a meeting this early in the morning, implicitly (and explicitly) giving a sense of urgency to the matter, just to let the issue drop and not mention it again.
I don’t know what to think about the scene with JJ. The scene they wanted to shoot between JJ and Hotch made much more sense.
Strange decision to bring JJ back now that the team is in danger of being split up because of budget cuts. Don't get me wrong, I'm really glad to have her back, but it's still strange.
The question is, in what capacity is she going to be back ?
I would prefer her to stay the media liaison of the team, I liked her in that role.
I think the scene between Garcia and Reid wasn’t meant to be seen as Reid snapping at Garcia in any way.
I think it was meant to be seen from Garcia’s point of view. She wasn’t herself in this episode; she was worried about the budget cuts and really unsettled by the case. Morgan and Kevin both noticed that.
Reid was simply surprised when she said that she didn’t narrow down the number of gas stations, you can see he’s just genuinely confused. When he points out that not having more parameters has never stopped her before it’s like a light has been switched for her. She goes right back to her search and successfully manages to narrow down the number of gas stations this time.
I saw this scene as a testament of Garcia’s usual level of skills, but maybe I’m wrong.
Just like the others, I really missed Reid. He was barely present.
I hope he’ll have more to do in the seventh season and that Reid’s genius, contribution and relationship with the team will be highlighted.
I was also disappointed to see that Seaver was the only one who seemed interested by the Indian restaurant Reid proposed (and I hope the writers will leave romance aside, it would be greatly appreciated).
Then again, Morgan didn’t say anything but maybe he went along with them ?
As for Seaver, I rarely comment on that character, but I just cannot imagine a cast with 8 team members.
And if Paget doesn’t come back I would prefer the cast to stay with 6 team members, including JJ and excluding Seaver. I don’t think I’ll ever warm up to her character.
I also agree with the others, it's not a matter of screen time here.
Andy Swan was a great character and a lot of us appreciated her after just one episode.
for me it's a also unrelated to the AJ Cook/Paget Brewster issues.
If Andy Sawn had joined the team instead of Seaver I would have appreciated her from the get go.
So the season ended with a whimper, not a bang. Life's like that. I'll spend the summer valiantly clinging to the hope of a Hotchful return.
As I understand it, rewrites happen all the time. Personally, I LIKED the Rossi/JJ scene. The opening camera angle tickled my fancy -- very "The Graduate" with a hint of homage to film noire. AJ has nice gams!
All BTS drama aside, the cast and crew have done a phenomenal job of giving me great characters to care about and be willing to spend hours of my life watching, over and over. When it hits that level of viewer loyalty, the beancounters meddle at their peril, but meddle they will as long as the business is, well, a business.
Trying to balance realism and real life while entertaining and informing is tough and I applaud the writers et al for a nice, fairly low-key wrap-up - with an extra-special mention for the bittersweet Andy Swan tribute.
Next season? Please, be gentle with us. It's been a bumpy ride and the bruises will take time to heal.
Mahale: I'm like you, I think some of the next to last scene, where they're going out to eat, was left on the cutting room floor, like more of the references to Andy Swan. Apparently a lot of things wound up on the cutting room floor this episode.
Thank you Sallie, you share many of my thoughts and opinions on this season and this episode.
Supply and Demand was an interesting episode, if not as suspenseful and engaging as previous finale’s or even Lauren and Valhalla. It was good storytelling with a different twist, which I found a little unbelievable. But in the era of Hollywood Madam Heidi Fleiss, I suppose it is somewhat plausible that a youthful villainess could acquire such power and control over men who appeared to be twice her age.
I may have to re-watch to determine how she gained access to the compound where she held the victims and the other locations that were owned by the same businessman. I don’t’ remember it being established what relationship the unsub had to the businessman, if any; and how she managed to commit her crimes in locations owned by the same person. Was she his daughter, niece, former employee? I don’t remember any relationship being established or explained.
Although there were no team members in physical peril, it didn’t seem as if they were imperiled by the budget ax either. The way Hotch explained the situation, they would be given options. Morgan was still being sought after by the New York office, but it seemed to be his decision whether or not he took the position. We know now that Morgan isn’t going anywhere because Shemar Moore recently re-signed a contract. Hotch said it was his intention to stay; and we’re supposed to believe his leaving ahead of everyone else foreshadows some kind of crossroads for his character, will he or won’t he come back. It also could have been the visual of a man going home early after a long day; and many all-consuming days of grief, guilt and strife brought on by cover-ups, attacks, trauma and the death of a wife and a friend.
Why would there be concern about budgetary trouble, when on the one hand, people need to consider other options; and on the other hand, there’s money to bring JJ back? The inconsistency of the argument makes it difficult to believe the seriousness of the problem. I guess it’s was Rossi inviting JJ back because of the need to continue the mystery surrounding Hotch. But the entire set-up was improbable because who would give Rossi the authority to make such a move when it had already been established there were budgetary constraints. He could not have gone over Hotch’s head to Strauss, because he didn’t even know Strauss was away; and it was established at the morning meeting that Hotch had met with the Director the night before. I guess the script had to be manipulated to add drama to the fact that Thomas and Shemar were still unsigned when the episode was shot.
I do believe the episode establishes ways of introducing and possibly exiting characters, but not necessarily Hotch. I guess if Thomas Gibson isn’t re-signed, the writers could say he went home and decided not to come back for some mysterious reason. I don’t see Hotch quitting after accepting a promotion, leaving Prentiss on the lam somewhere in Europe without anyone knowing but JJ, leaving Doyle alive with the ability to wreak havoc, and without some kind of satisfactory explanation for the fans. But since we’re dealing with CBS, anything can happen.
The episode provided a greater avenue for exiting Rachel Nichols. It introduced the Domestic Trafficking Unit in the FBI that provided a much better fit for the Ashley Seaver character. SSA Andi Swan recruited entry level agents with Seaver’s basic character make-up-- taking the initiative and following her own lead; and because of what happened to the undercover working the case, they were now down an agent. Seaver could easily transition into the unit, and probably excel.
cont...
@niteanjl
I'm OCD enough...
Uh, oh.
Be careful, that place is full of numbers, numbers in lists, organized numbers, categorized numbers...
I'm too a little OCD with some things, numbers being one, and that site has me hooked (pssst... it can be dangerous for us... lol!)
cont...
The introduction of Andi Swan also provided an intriguingly, strong, experienced SSA who could step into the position left open by Prentiss’ departure, that’s if Paget decides not to return. I’m desperately hoping that Paget does return and believe she is irreplaceable. But Swan provides a much better fit for the team if for some reason Paget decides CM is not where she wants to be.
Enjoyed seeing Kevin, but he appeared to look more like a stereotypical , used-car salesman rather than a nerd. He was slicked-up a little too much. I was a little surprised to see Morgan get his butt beat; but it did give Reid a good opportunity to zing him with the funny line about needing to work out more. Garcia was pretty in pink and witty as usual. Hotch was back to his serious-self, and he looked extraordinarily handsome in this episode. I agree that the contrast between the well-dressed and casual Hotch makes the man drool-worthy in every episode. I’m really going to miss that vision if he does not return; but then again CM will no longer be a part of my diet.
sdwally: I summed it up in two words: SEX & MONEY.
Somehow, which was never explained, I think this chick discovered a market & knew how to exploit it (sort of like madams/call girls). There are deviants out and she knew how to supply them with what they wanted. She was the right age to find the victims and with her big eyes and the MONEY they were raking in, of course she could order around the big guys. She was bringing in the money, probably letting them have a go at the girls/guys and providing them with their particular drug of choice.
I think the guy with the huge hands really got off on choking the life out of the victims.
Well since I REALLY don't like the character of Ashley, I don't want her anywhere near my beloved Reid. That character sucks my enjoyment out of Reid scenes.
Maria: I just got on that site and let me tell you, my eyes have glazed over with all the numbers!!!
After staying on the fence on the Seaver issue all season, I can honestly say that while I really don't care if they keep her, I don't see that she adds anything to the current cast or see any reason to keep her. It was a nice experiment, but a failed experiment in my opinion. I don't hate the character or cringe or anything when she's onscreen, I feel nothing and after all this time I should probably feel something, at least "interested".
I found myself instantly drawn to and liking the Andi Swan character last night and that's probably the way a character who is a "keeper" should affect the viewers so I guess you can add me to the list of viewers who'd be okay with making Seaver a victim of the budget cuts.
Well, RN tweeted that she's 'slated' to come back in season 7, which means it's not set in stone at this point.
If PB agrees to come back, that along with AJC, there simply won't be room for her.
MGG laughed once about how hard it was to give everyone 'face time' with such a large ensemble cast and only 44 minutes. You could tell he really wasn't all that worried about.
Now, us, on the other hand . . .
I totally agree niteanjl, I hope they don't go down that road with Seaver and Reid. She's already shown in the scene on the plane when she, in effect, told him to shut the hell up in front of his colleagues and his boss, that she has no respect for him as a man or a superior agent.
LaShawna,
I agree with you. The Reid/Seaver scenes are less than appealing for me too.
I think the writers should concentrate more on Reid's relationship with the other team members (and particularly with Hotch).
Pat: I don't mind if they're friends, they're all friends and they do stuff together, but could you see her going to Comicon with him?
Hopefully they'll stick to their original guns - NO ROMANCE BETWEEN TEAM MEMBERS!! The show would go down the drain then!
Is there a specific date by when Paget has to let the show know whether she is coming back or not? I've seen in couple of places that it is May 28th, but am not sure if that is correct? I am desperate for her to come back and for the team to get back together!
Season 6 is the first season I've watched! (Caught P911 on a repeat last summer, and I was hooked!) Tonia (who commented earlier) is my sister, and like she said, we bought and watched all 5 seasons before this season started.
This season was filled with all sorts of transitions, but there were stunning moments and whole episodes.
This week's episode definitely wasn't like other season finales, but I'm glad it wasn't. I don't think I would've been able to handle waiting 3 months for resolution!
My favorite things about this episode were definitely Morgan & Rossi having each other's backs, JJ coming back, seeing Kevin again, lots of focus on Garcia, and Seaver seeming more like a member of the team.
The case was interesting - I loved Andi Swan, Renee & the unsub girl!
Happy that things seem to be on the upswing for CM! Crossing my fingers for Thomas Gibson & Paget Brewster!
Christina,
The two dates I have seen are May 25th and May 28th :)
Thanks Sharon!!! I am crossing everything possible on my body so that she returns to the show and that Thomas Gibson gets a contract and please some new good writers, maybe some of the old ones, please!!! I want my old team back!!!! Please!!!!!
I enthusiastically second all your sentiments, Christina!!
I really liked the episode and really like seaver. She really is a good addition to the team. Can't wait to see her build with the team.
But i didn't like the intended "date" at the end with Reid. What was that about.
Andi you will be missed for your great work on CM.
Just got an e-mail from my friend in Vancouver asking if we know anything about TG returning and read last nite's show as a goodbye from him...hope to God she is wrong about that?
But she is sure not wrong about this: "RN is a lousy actress indeed...when she says her lines, it jars the scenes, too! On top of her stupid inflections and lack of a sense of the genuine during the show..."
I think she means RN does not come across as genuine but my friend hasn't answered back yet. I cannot disagree the "jarring the scene" part - it's very true. It's like putting a square peg in a round hole. Just doesn't fit, work, whatever.
And leave it to sdwally to come up with the perfect solution: let her tsf over to Andi Swan's unit: where she would fit perfectly! Pls put that sugg on the CBS feedback website, sdwally...you are WAY smarter than TPTB at CBS, GF. The way you write, they will sit up and listen!
I sure hope Morgan went to dinner with SR & AS...I can't stand the idea of her hooking up with Reid or the concept that she'll be hanging on his coat-tails and he'll be mentoring her. I want NONE of it.
MGG is too nice a guy in real life and I feel like I want someone better for my "son." Now, how silly is that??!! Geez, I really need a life...
I thought it was a pretty good episode. I thought it was touching that it was dedicated to the memory of Andy Swan.
I liked that there was a lot of team interaction, unfortunately too much was from the mouth of Seaver. She had way too many lines and Reid & Hotch not enough. I enjoyed the banter between Morgan & Rossi and Morgan & Garcia. Thrilled beyond words that JJ is returning.
I have faith that Hotch will return. I cannot imagine the show without him. If Shemar got double his salary, Thomas might be into some serious money negotiations. He said he wants to return and I believe him.
I am hoping that Prentiss will return also and a contract with her will be reached.
And Seaver really needs to go. They have the perfect opportunity for her to be transferred elsewhere. With JJ back and with or without Prentiss, she is not needed, not that she was needed ever.
I want our BAU team/family back together. You really didn't need to mess with the perfect cast. Please CBS.
niteanjl said...
Pat: I don't mind if they're friends, they're all friends and they do stuff together, but could you see her going to Comicon with him?
I’d rather not see her going anywhere with him, including out for tandoori. I’m still ticked over her rudeness to him on the plane when he’s never been rude to her ever.
Michael said...
yeah anonymous i really don' like this blog anymore.
Besides seaver is great on the show.
It seems like its the popular thing to hate Seaver. while they really got no basis for it at all. It is like the people hating on twilight just because they want to or the people who don't like Tom Cruise.
I really think this hate has gone overboard now and it is getting tiresome and old. And the cast also says to support her yet there is some who ignores that and i think it is wrong. It is just pety hate for no reason just because they want to. The character hasn't even been developed yet to its entirely. So why hate on someone that can grow into an awesome character with the help of the writers.
This seaver hate is really getting childish.
Michael, if you only want a blog that agrees with everything you feel, then I agree, this is likely not the place for you. We are never all going to agree on everything and, to me, that’s the best part, reading differing opinions, going back and rewatching the episode with that in mind and sometimes changing your mind.
I wouldn’t say it’s a popular thing to dislike (notice I didn't say hate) Seaver with no basis for it. You can’t be saying that. Posters have gone on ad nauseum about the reasons for feeling Seaver was the wrong character for this team. Note I said character, having nothing to do with the actress.
You stress that the character hasn’t been developed entirely so we should hold on for that. None of the characters has been developed entirely. We learn something more about each character with each season. But even though they are not developed entirely, something about them caught us enough for us to want to see more. The first episode I watched Reid just fascinated me and that fascination hasn’t waned over six seasons. For others it’s Hotch, and still others Morgan, Rossi, Garcia… For you it is Seaver, and that’s fine. I’m happy for you because you probably enjoyed this season more than most of us who just can’t seem to reconcile ourselves to her character. You are right that the problem many of us have with Seaver can be laid mostly on the writers. I don’t even think Jodi Foster could have looked good with some of the material RN's been given. But, that could be said of any character.
We just disagree, you, and many others I’m sure, like Seaver. I, and many others don’t. So we disagree. Every one of us is entitled to his/her opinion. It makes no one childish!
After last week's amazing episode, and last night's scenes, I definitely want to see even more of Morgan next season.
I was overjoyed to hear that Shemar was re-signed, and got double the salary.
Hope this means even more screen time for my favorite character, Derek Morgan! xD
gubegirl said:
"Pls put that sugg on the CBS feedback website, sdwally..."
Consider it done, and thanks!
I can honestly say that if Andy Swan's character had been introduced to replace AJ or Paget I would have accepted her. I'm not saying that I wouldn't have resented the loss of AJ or Paget, but I would have accepted that new character. I felt immediately drawn to her and she interested me.
I too missed Reid last night, he needs to be used more in the episodes.
I would love to see a real storyline focusing on his genius next season, highlighting positively his potential and how valuable he's to the team.
Thanks to the person who pointed out that we don't need to keep featuring JJ's lovely legs. Wasn't any happier about the constant featuring of Prentiss' cleavage. BAU team members can be attractive without being turned into sex objects.
I would like to add my compliments to those about the Andy Swan character. It was wonderful to honor him that way, and the actor did a great job with the role; very appealing, smart, serious agent. Wouln't have minded someone like her joining the team instead of the ill-conceived, badly played Seaver character.
Just watched the episode, it was quite good. Great tribute to Andy Swan.
Again i see some people complaining about seaver,this bantering is getting old now.
Seriously she did nothing wrong in this episode. She has done nothing wrong in the last 4-5 episodes now.
I am now more then ever convinced, that this is a witch hunt of somesort, of people who just don't like her for no reason.
I don't get it.
Because seriously their was nothing wrong, by how she interacted with any of them in this one. Has been this way for a handful of episodes now.
Oh god, Anonymous, she is an ill-conceived, badly played out character. That is not changing for many of us. I feel like I should just do a cut and paste of this comment because it is a fundamental flaw that hasn't and isn't going away. That is my issue and will be my issue for however long she remains on the show which I pray isn't past this season finale. This isn't really that hard to understand, perhaps you disagree, okay, but really it is not hard to understand. Oy!
New.. Agreed with ANONYMOUS above Betsy.Nothing is wrong with seaver the dislike for her is ridiculous.
Blueman, people have different opinions and taste. I don't like the character, I never will. You do and that is good for you. I could say that it is ridiculous that you like the character, but I don't because it is not ridiculous, it is your opinion, just like I have my opinion that I think the character is ridiculous. An opinion is just that an opinion.
Betsy, don't take the bait. Take a deep breath and walk away. :) Go get an ice cream or cookie and enjoy your night. :)
Lydia, you had me at ice cream! I think I will take your advice and get some strawberry ice cream. I will have to run a mile or two to burn it off but I'm thinking that would probably be more productive.
Thanks :)
No problem. Enjoy it (both the ice cream and the run).
:)))
i respect your opinion Betsy
I was finally able to empty my mind of all the back-stage distractions and rewatch the finale. I actually liked it very much. I felt for a moment that i was in the horrifying world of the casualties. The rows of men, the table of tools, god it was ... what it was, a glimpse into an abyss.
I thought all the characters got their screen time, although i'd like to rethink Reid's. I saw quite a few parallels b/w the U/C agent and Prentiss' plight. I loved all the Hotch/Swan scenes. I thought they were poignant with the subtext of being the leader and protecting your own, making the heart-wrenching decisions, knowing full well how close they are, every day, to losing everything, someone dear, someone with a name, someone with a mum and dad. That he asked her name - beautiful. Naming someone makes it real and hard at the same time.
Morgan and Rossi were incredible, Pen/Kevin were probably the little bit of light when Pen needed it. Reid's face when he spoke about Gideon - so much about loss. Hotch walking away and the focus on the BAU door opening and closing, nicely done again.
I'm going to watch this many times, i think. The last few episodes of this season have been great, albeit with a few plotholes with the profiling. But they have had heart. Too many times with procedurals, that's what's missing, but Minds is different and i'm glad it is.
It was a so-so episode, not bad but not my favorite. Thinking about the possibility of Thomas not returning did distract me. And I was hoping for more than a few seconds of JJ. I agree with what others have said... the storyline about JJ coming back needs a better explanation. She had no choice about her transfer, so how is she able to come back? That needs explained to be believable. We've put up with so many unbelievable bits this season, no more! I did love the nod to Andy Swan, very clever and nice.
I am bummed that the season is over. No new eps. :-( I hope we'll be rewarded with news of a signed contract for TG soon, and news that Paget is coming back.
Eleven,
I loved all the Hotch/Swan scenes. I thought they were poignant with the subtext of being the leader and protecting your own, making the heart-wrenching decisions, knowing full well how close they are, every day, to losing everything, someone dear, someone with a name, someone with a mum and dad. That he asked her name - beautiful. Naming someone makes it real and hard at the same time.
Yah, that was beautiful, how Hotch ask her name.
Thank you to mention about that.
I loved all the Hotch/Swan sciene, too.
They had their chemistry (not romantic, of course).
I wish we will see her again.
AND OF COURSE HOTCH WILL COME BACK.
Just back at 9:30 PM from a Costco run and now I'm too late to catch that Mentalist finale.
Several of you have mentioned that the knowledge of all the BTS CM drama dating back almost a year distracted you from enjoying the finale as much as you would like. For that reason, I think I will watch it again tonite. This time with no popcorn that my dogs would keep begging me for - I should be able to get an accurate count on the "Andi Swan(s)."
Thanks, Eleven, You convinced me.
I'd like to add that for me the most jarring scene was the one with JJ. It felt all wrong emotionally (it was like the sulking after Lauren). There were so many more ways for us to welcome her back, a part of our family. The legs, ugh - after all that I felt throughout the episode, this was a total let-down. Minds has not focused on any of the characters like this before, not even when they had a shirtless Morgan in Omnivore. Nobody in their right minds would take that scene back (heh, we're not that crazy), it had felt cohesive. The camera did not have to draw our attention to it, it was part of that scene, nicely blended in. JJ is stunning - we don't need the camera to tell us that she has gorgeous legs, too. I mean, here I was expecting it to be 57 kinds of emotional and I got … legs.
If they had got it right (right for me - don't begrudge those that loved the scene), it would have been consistent with the tone of the entire episode – subdued, subtle, dark and emotional. I could only think of a line from 'english august…' - "the ecstasy of arrival never compensates for the emptiness of departure" - not the same context of course, but Hotch/JJ (should have) felt like that.
Gubegirl - hope you enjoy your second viewing!
So I guess I'm late but I think we don't need to worry about Reid/Seaver happening. For starters, they have no chemistry, romantic or otherwise, not to me. He was so much better with Austin the bartender from "52 Pickup" and she was hardly even there in the episode. Seaver doesn't really have any sort of chemistry with anyone. All her interactions with the other characters seem forced and superficial. Moreover, if you watch episodes 21,22&23, he hardly ever looks at her. She just looks bored and disinterested in general.
I am vehemently against a Reid/Seaver hookup. The thought itself is revolting. I'll say why. I love Reid, I loathe Seaver, therefore, I can't stand the thought of them being together. Erica, if you're reading this, please don't go down that route with those two. If Reid must have a love interest, let it be someone outside the job.
When I saw the episode, I was always under the impression that Morgan, Reid and Seaver went together, until I read some comments here. But I'm sticking by my initial impression, because that is what I want to believe, and we may never know, so just believe what you want :)
The thing that saddened me about that scene though was that I instantly thought of the similar scene in "Paradise." It was always Reid, Morgan, and Emily who did these things together, you know? Like in "Catching Out" they were going to grab a burger together, or in "Limelight" when they went together to the diner. It almost felt like the writers were trying to convey to us that Emily is not needed anymore, see they hang out with Seaver like they did with Emily, everything is fine and dandy. Well, it's not. Another scene in the roundtable room after the cute Reid/Garcia interaction, when Seaver handed him the files reminded me of an early season1 episode in which Elle tells Reid that she had slipped him some of her files. If they're trying to endear the Seaver character to us by resorting to such tactics, then well, it's not working. I'm definitely not buying it. They've tried it for almost 14 episodes, it didn't work. Please accept that this character has been a failure in every possible way and get rid of her. The character has no legs to stand on, and her continued presence will only hurt the show in the future.
Also, if they retain Rachel Nichols' services for next season, we can safely assume that Paget isn't coming back. Even with six cast members viewers are dissatisfied when their favourites don't get enough screen time - I'm definitely guilty of this. Imagine what it will be like with eight regulars? It will be utter chaos. Therefore, it is my wish, like many others have stated before that if Emily doesn't return to the BAU, they should leave the cast at 6. We all know who those six should be.
Eleven,
I would prefer the writers to concentrate on Reid's brain and on his relationship with the team on the seventh season.
I think it would be much more rewarding for the character.
I agree about keeping the cast at six main characters in the seventh season (if Paget doesn't come back).
They barely have enough time to highlight six different team members, I don't even want to think about the writers having to deal with eight main characters...
Elisabeth, I think you're addressing me? Yeah, I completely agree with you. Reid is my favourite CM character and all my most loved episodes have been the ones in which he is central, and gets a chance to showcase his genius and brilliance. Therefore, I would really love more of that next season. Most definitely.
I'll be glad to see Seaver next year. Rachel Nichols does a good job with the character. In my opinion (please do bear that phrase in mind before you start beating me up!), she's not getting a free and fair response from the fans. The resentment about cast changes has spilled over and coloured response to the new guy.
For all sorts of reasons I'd be glad to see her back
a) I like her mix of naivete and self-protective (not very convincing) world-weariness
b) A new character always freshens up relations/discoveries with existing characters -- an element that's not really been played out so much in this very cluttered In and Out and Back Again season
c) Temperamentally, I don't like to see the writers forced to give way. The audience is the audience. The writers write. Of course we have opinions and our opinions are significant, but the programme can't just be wish-fulfilment for the majority view. That'll sink it quicker than a whole busload of cast changes
d) Rachel Nichols can have a chance (a chance) to win people round. Good luck to her, cos she's going to need it! Ditto the writers.
UK Viewer
heyya
Sorry, I was addressing you.
Yes, I'm mostly interested in seeing Reid's relationship with the team and his genius.
And I think it's best when the rest is left to the fans imagination.
My favorite episodes have always included Reid using his brilliant mind (like 'Masterpiece' with Reid and the mathematics).
Since the team members might be called by other departments, it would be nice to learn that some of the best/top departments or units want Reid to work with them and tried very hard to recruit him (only to fail, of course).
I really hope his storyline (if he gets one) on the seventh season will be about his genius and his relationship with his teammates.
It has been really lacking.
Once again, sorry about the confusion concerning your name.
I for one have given both Rachel Nichols and Ashley Seaver a free and fair response. However, after 14 episodes, I am just not a fan. No hate here.
It's not because of the AJ and Paget thing. It's not because I don't like change. I really really liked Andi Swan and the actress that played her and if we had been given her instead of Seaver/Nichols, I would have gladly accepted that change.
I didn't say hate.
People have a right to express an opinion about characters/plots etc, curbed only by the amount of hurt it'll cause. That imposes some responsibility on us.
UK v
I just don't see the point in trying to force something to work when it clearly isn't working. I don't think it's good for the show, and I don't think it's good for Nichols. She might be better off finding something that is a better fit for her. :)
Prolly the Andy Swan character triggered this - i think if they are replacing Hotch, they should replace him with a female character. (Before i get a million DeathGlares or ColdStares Hotch style, or a bullet in my brain, please know that I don't want Hotch/TG to leave.) I just thought it would be interesting for it to be a woman (pref TG's age), especially in terms of playing off a few interesting angles with Strauss.
No problem Elisabeth, don't worry about it :)
Yeah "Masterpiece" was brilliant! As were the "Fisher King" episodes. There seriously hasn't been a single Reid centric episode I haven't absolutely loved! I know many people hated "Corazon" but I enjoyed it. They really created a gem of a character when they came up with him and I'm really hoping that next season we see the full utilization of his amazing skills. Agreed about his interactions with the team members too. I love how he has a unique relationship with all of them.
Reid/Morgan has always been my favourite character pairing, would love to see more of them. Reid/Hotch always are a fantastic duo and they've had some amazing moments especially in "L.D.S.K", "Damaged", and "Tabula Rasa." I would love to see more scenes of that nature in the future.
Reid/JJ is one of the sweetest relationships on the show. I loved it when in the "Performer" in the plane scene at the end, he wrapped her in a blanket. There are many other scenes between them I love, and he was devastated when she left so on her comeback I would love to see more these two together.
There's nothing I can say about Reid and Garcia. When they get together it's like magic on screen. I love how she is his confidante when it comes to his mother. I love these two.
Reid and Emily were awesome two. I think he connected the most with her on an intellectual level, and I think they're similar in some ways. oh god I miss her so much. If she returns, I'm hoping and praying she does, it will give the entire team a whole new dynamic. It can make for some compelling storytelling. I'm really curious to see how it plays out...if it does.
That makes sense. If you think it's not working, it's true she'd be better off with a new situation and with an audience that likes her more. Less stressful all round. And of course it's going to be a very crowded cast next time if PB comes back and if TG stays.
But I like Ashley so it seems worthwhile exploring further. (Plus I own up a rebellious streak that keeps wanting to fight against impossible odds.) There's a weird double effect for the people who like the new character. I watch CM online and enjoy it loads -- just like the old enthusiasm for season 3 or 4 -- and then I come onto the blog and find out how bad it all was, usually as it turns out down to Seaver (who, in my old uninstructed view had hardly a thing to do all eppy)!
My poor head's in a terminal spin.
UK v
An intense episode with a great case (if we can call the case ‘great’, you know what I mean).
The Morgan and Rossi scenes were good and it was nice to see them having each other’s back.
I would have liked to see more Reid, but maybe he’ll get more to do next season.
About seaver, I don’t hate her but I’m really not interested either by that character. And I don’t think this feeling will change. I loved Rossi right away, even if I missed Gideon (and it took me a really short amount of time to warm up to Prentiss).
Even Andy Swan interested me much more than Seaver after a single episode.
It was such a nice gesture to dedicate this episode to Andy Swan’s memory.
I wonder how JJ can simply decide to come back…they made a big deal about her being forced out of the BAU and being transferred to the Pentagon. What changed ?
Did Rossi do something ? In that case, is Hotch aware ?
I’m dreading the explanation they’ll give us … At least, I hope it’ll make sense.
I too want to see Reid displaying his genius more next year. I hope his screen time will be used to show him being the resident genius we know and love (and that it’ll give us good interactions between Reid and the team, I miss seeing Reid interacting with them on a personal level and I hope to see more Hotch/Reid scenes).
heyya,
I completely agree with you, I think we need to see Reid interacting more with his teammates. I particularly love the relationship between Hotch and Reid.
There has been Reid episodes I didn't enjoy as much as others.
"Masterpiece" was not a Reid centric episode, it was about Rossi, but they gave him good material to work with and I loved that episode. The scene with Reid and the math equations was wonderful. I hope to see more scenes like that in the future (scientific Reid is always something I love, and we see that too rarely).
So, fingers crossed that next year we'll get a good story about Reid focusing on his genius and on his relation with his team.
Oh my god Elisabeth, all this discussion about Reid and his genius mind makes me want to watch "Masterpiece" all over again! There have been season1-5 episodes I've watched multiple times and will still happily watch without ever getting bored. I can't say the same about season6 :(
Yes UK viewer. count me as one who also don't get the seaver hating!
She is fine on the show
heyya,
"Masterpiece" is such a good episode, I have watched it many times.
I hope they give Reid good material to work with in the seventh season, something that will highlight his completely off the charts intellectual capacities and how valuable he's to the team.
Uk viewer, it is great that you have those opinions and are sharing them here, but please refrain from painting a wide brush stroke as to why people don't like and respond well to the Seaver character. I'm not saying that you are doing that in this thread, but you have done so in others. Whatever the reason or reasons may be, this character is not clicking with many people, so much so, that for some it is ruining their enjoyment of the show, something that I feel does not benefit the show or the other cast members.
My dislike of this character has absolutely nothing to do with AJ or Paget. I didn't like that either of their characters were written off as they were good and blended well with the rest of the cast and the basis of the show. Ultimately, I think it was a very foolish, rash, and just plain stupid decision on the part of the network to eliminate those characters. That being said, I was open to seeing what they would offer in terms of a new character and what was offered is not good in my view. Not only does this character have no standing to be in the BAU as the BAU has been presented and stressed for all of these years, there is absolutely nothing that draws me to this character. I'm just not interested at all. Not to mention that the way the character comes across to me puts me off on a level that I just can't stand. In many instances, I feel that the character is arrogant and makes snide little remarks here and there that just make me want to scream. This is my perception of how the character comes across, not trying to say that is a general view for everyone. This has gotten to the point that not only do I not enjoy any of the scenes that I am subjected to with this character, not even her non- appearance in a scene makes me feel calm during an episode because I fear that at any moment she will pop up on screen and ruin for me what was probably some good dialogue between the other cast members. Honestly, the fate of Hotch notwithstanding, I don't think that I will be able to continue to watch the show if this character comes back for season 7.
cont...
In addition, the season finale for Criminal Minds provided a great avenue for exiting Rachel Nichols. It introduced the Domestic Trafficking Unit in the FBI that provided a much better fit for the Ashley Seaver character. SSA Andi Swan recruited entry level agents with Seaver’s basic character make-up-- taking the initiative and following her own lead; and because of what happened to the undercover working the case, they were now down an agent. Seaver could easily transition into the unit, and probably excel.
Please get Thomas Gibson re-signed immediately; because NO THOMAS GIBSON, NO CRIMINAL MINDS!!
"All that from a pair of missing sneakers." LOVED that - a tip of the hat to Tabula Rasa's socks maybe? :-)
I'm trying to post the first part of my comments, but for some reason the system keeps deleting them. Can't figure out why...
After the end of the season, and seeing the chapters with a cool head, I think the contempt against Seaver was due to two reasons: first, very understandable, was the departure of AJ and Paget, much loved by fans. If the output was due to financial problems, why hire another actor? However, production at the time said it was for creative reasons, to give freshness to the stories, and that brings me to my second reason. The writers were not able to produce a good story for that character. After its introduction in episode 10, no importance was given to the particular view of Seaver led by the daughter of a serial killer. Gradually, this character wandered, not given a purpose, rather than putting a woman among many men, a beautiful flower to adorn.
If the reason for its introduction was to refresh the story, what happened? First Reid headaches after the arch of Prentiss, as the saying goes in my country, "the press much, just covers." Were too many stories in a short time, and not given a proper end to any of them, now hopes to finish in Season 7. I believe the introduction of Seaver would have been more appropriate to start the season, before removing AJ then give continuity to his story, giving it more personality, especially to justify their inclusion in the plot, then exit and then JJ focus on the arc of Prentiss. Headaches Reid was an issue that could be postponed for the seventh season.
Anyway, that's my opinion, unfortunately, I think it's Seaver you end up in the downsizing of the BAU. Too bad.
Jessica, Costa Rica
Attached is the comment emailed via the CBS Feedback form. I combined two comments I posted on the blog with a few changes. I wanted it to be more about TG.
Les Moonves, Nina Tassler, CBS/ABC:
It is inconceivable that fans are stilling waiting for Thomas Gibson to be re-signed to a new contract for Criminal Minds. Mr. Gibson is the heart and soul , the strength and backbone, and unquestionable lead of the series.
First a few statistics:
Successful TV shows running more than three years (not including CM, voice work or soap operas):
Joe Mantegna (0) - longest running – Joan of Arcadia: 2 seasons/45 episodes
Paget Brewster (0) - longest running – Huff: 2 seasons/25 episodes
Shemar Moore (0)- longest running – Birds of Prey: 1 seasons/14 episodes
Mathew Gray Gubler – 0
AJ Cook (0)- longest running – Higher Ground: 1 seasons/22 episodes
Kirsten Vangness – 0
Thomas Gibson (3)- longest running – Dharma & Greg: 5 seasons/119 episodes
-Chicago Hope: 4 seasons/70 episodes
As has already been proved with the cancelation of Criminal Minds Suspect Behavior and the short-lived Joan of Arcadia, an Academy Award or Tony Award does not guarantee you television success. Success in the movies or theater may get you top recognition to get into a series; but it has no bearing on the longevity of the series.
Thomas Gibson has had more television series success than any of the other CM regulars and most stars in general, and is a proven winner; so he should not be shortchanged by the networks; and his relevance should not be downplayed . Gibson has proved to be the most viable/bankable TV star of any of the CM regulars. You may think CM will continue successfully without him; I seriously doubt it. And if I were CBS/ABC, I wouldn’t want to test the theory.
However, if TG’s negotiations lead to his departure from CM, that would be bad news for the rest of the cast; because CM without him will not survive for very long.
Thomas Gibson is the important ingredient that makes CM work; and Hotch is the character he plays. If Hotch were the important ingredient and not Gibson, then CBS could simply recast the role; and the series should continue just fine. I would argue though that if TG is not playing the part of Hotch, CM would still fail. Gibson has made Hotch the integral character that it has become. No other actor could recreate the magic and mystery embodied in the character, nor would any other actor be accepted stepping into Hotch’s shoes.
Although I like Joe Mantegna, Gibson was doing just fine as the lone series lead before Joe arrived; and he’s continued to sustain that leadership role ever since. If CBS/ABC opt to let Gibson go, it may be good for his fans, because we won’t have to endure the CM drama and misery any longer. But it’ll probably be a death knell to CM; and I would hate for such a wonderful series to end far too soon.
I don’t believe for a minute that TG is asking for Mark Harmon money; but as the star of the series that ranks second to NCIS in the demos; he may be asking for a producer credit. Whatever his demands, he’s earned it; and CBS/ABC should give it to him because he’s a proven winner as a successful television star; and he’s the only CM cast member who can make that claim.
continued above...
Eleven,
We need more scenes like that (the Tabula Rasa "charcoal gray?" socks scene.) Hotch laying the smackdown using his profiling skillz. Oh yes. !!!
Wow, great post sdwally. Spot on!
sdwally, I just emailed the same in the CBS feedback section.
TWICE.
Lets all do that.
It might not be useful but at least I'll vent XD
I hundredth that, SDWally!!
I think in general (and I'm making a very broad brush statement here), most Criminal Minds fans ARE open to new characters and change, even if they don't necessarily want it. This show has had some very turbulent cast changes over the years, and most viewers have stuck by the show and learned to like most of the new characters. I don't know how most people felt about Elle leaving, but I know many, many people liked Gideon and were very sad to see him go. However, that didn't mean that their replacements were not accepted and beloved. Most people really like Emily and most people really like Rossi. I liked Emily from her very first episode and Rossi from his second. If a person hasn't warmed up to a character after 13 episodes (*cough*Ashley*cough*), chances are they will never like that character. I mean, how long can someone argue that a character just needs more development before you acknowledge that some people just will never like that character? I instantly liked most of the characters when I first watched them (particularly Reid and Penelope). I instantly disliked Ashley and my opinion has not changed since then. In the end, some people just don't like some characters. I know of CM viewers who don't like Reid for instance and never will. As for Ashley catching the backlash from AJ/Paget's departure, I think after several episodes that excuse went away. I instantly took to SSA Andi Swan in this episode. If Paget does not choose to return (and I dearly hope she does), I would have zero problem accepting and welcoming Andi Swan or a character like her to the team. It felt like she belonged, and I just don't have that feeling about Ashley. Obviously Ashley has fans, and some people do like her character. But many, many of us do not. I've stopped trying to turn Ashley fans over to my side, because they like the character and nothing will change that for them (just like NOTHING will EVER stop me from being a hardcore Reid fan). But guess what? Nothing Ashley fans say will make me change my mind either. So basically we are at an impasse, and just have to agree to disagree about that character.
Samantha: I agree with all that you stated above on the Seaver subject. It has never been about the loss of AJ or Paget, and after seeing the wonderful actress Wed nite who portrayed Agent Andi Swan: it just hit us all in the face: THAT'S the kind of woman we want. She fits and RN does not.
sdwally: re: post to CBS: Great job, very well put w/ lots of research to back it up; should be enough to make the decision makers sit up and take notice. Now if we can just get them to use their noggins...:)
I remember TG way back on Chicago Hope and find it interesting that's where I first saw Mandy Patinkin (besides Princess Bride!) They have both been great from the get-go.
sdwally, I think you are a wonderful writer, and I never skim your posts. I always take the time to read them in their entirety because they are so insightful in addition to your ability to present things so well.
Thank you, on behalf of all the CM Fanatics on this blog who want to see TG return (that would be what, 99%? :)
Just seen the finale and it was definatly different to past seasons!
First, Woo AJ Cook is back and now I can't wait for season 7.
This episode had a very ominous feeling and it's probably just with the behind the scenes drama seeping through. Something the whole season has been tainted with.
The case was good, one of the more interesting cases.
I'm not going to get into the whole Seaver thing, the writers have season seven to sway me. Love the actress just not warming up to her character yet.
The Andy Swann tribute was very touching (Erica Messer's message made me cry :S) and the actress who played Andi Swann was one of the best COTW in a long time.
I also really liked Garcia and Kevin's relationship and hope there's more tid bits next season for them.
Also I'm going to be in denial or just optimistic and say, I can't wait for the whole orginial team to be back together soon. The last forty secnds really made me relise how much I missed JJ/Hotch scenes because I was totally confused as to why JJ was talking to Rossi but that's probably to do with the behind the scenes stuff again... hopefully season 7 will redeem me for the lack of JJ and Hotch scenes this season.
I'm really looking forward to season 7 now, hopefully with an intact cast and good old CM cases.
What a season finale on Criminal Minds! WOOHOO JJ!! But I’m worried about these shake-ups. Unless Seaver leaves. Then I’m okay with it. Any news for me? — Marge
Don’t misinterpret JJ’s return as a push to the exit for Seaver (Rachel Nichols) so fast there, Marge. Per EP Erica Messer: “No, it doesn’t necessarily mean [she's leaving]. Honestly, they’re not the same character. And I think it was unfortunate because they look so much alike that people rejected Seaver because she seemed like she was a replacement for JJ,” she said. “As far as I’m concerned, she is a part of this team…I don’t want her to just disappear.”
i still can't believe that after every single one of our statements, arguments and explanations, some people still don't get why we don't like Seaver. And the fact that the EXECUTIVE PRODUCER is one of them, is one of the reasons why I'm simply not expecting too much for next season.
To be honest, one season of giving the benefit of the doubt is more than I can do.
They better bring it.
And if I could vote, I would vote Seaver off. And it's not because she is blond.
Sorry, forgot to say, that was from Entertainment weekly.
Laura, I don't put much stock in there being any sort of turn around next season despite what anybody including Messer says. This blurb just confirms that the hubris that has placed this show in the position that it is today (fired writers, firing AJ, reducing Paget, Thomas in limbo), well, it is alive and well. You'd have to be living under multiple rocks not to know what type of negative reaction this character is sparking and to think for even a second that coming back next season with the same cause of contention is going to fix anything, wow, that is really crazy. I just hope that the network has more sense than what was demonstrated in that blurb as they have the final say of who stays or goes, but really, that is not saying much considering the network we are dealing with here. I'll say this, I'm no longer going to deal with this show if they think that they can continue shoving such a ludricous character (blond or not) is the way to go.
Yes Rachel is staying, i guess they have seen she is getting more and more people that likes her.
And boy has she been good in the last couple of episodes, with chemestry left and right imo!
Dyanda, Messer does not have that say. If so, AJ would have never been fired and Paget wouldn't have gotten shafted unless you are implying that an EP had something to do with those situations. You are basically saying that what Messer is saying is what will happen which means she'd have that power, meaning the previous EP's had that power and they decided the fates of both AJ and Paget.
"it doesn’t necessarily mean [she's leaving]."
Which means she still could be leaving.
"I don’t want her to just disappear.”
Which could mean maybe just a few exit appearances next season.
Umm, she said that people rejected Seaver, so umm, where is that even implying that more people have started to like her dyanda. I think you need to read that line over again.....
Laura, your right, I think it is lame that they are still using the look a like excuse after all everyone has written here. Volumes could be written on the various reasons this character is a no go. This is all just so pathetic. I'm just sick of all of this nonsense.
I too was greatly disappointed to hear that EM is under the impression that the main reason we don't like Seaver is because she's blonde and looks too much like JJ. While that statement is true (she is blonde and looks a lot like JJ), there are many more logical and reasonable reasons why Seaver is so greatly disliked by so many of the fans. Pages and pages and pages of it, not just on this blog but other blogs and sites.
I think they only need to see how well received Andi Swan was (one episode) versus how badly Seaver (14? episodes) is still received. I had really high hopes for S7 with EM as showrunner but if she is not even going to pay attention to the state of the fandom then those hopes go out the window.
All I can say to the execs at the network is: if Seaver stays and Hotch goes, then WOW. Just... WOW. Makes no sense whatsoever. I am flummoxed. Flabbergasted.
Please! If Erica really thought the fans would reject Ashley simply because she looks like JJ, why didn't they change her look BEFORE she joined the show to differeniate them? Yeah, many casual fans will refer to Ashley as the "JJ clone" or "new girl" or "blond bimbo", but their chief reason for disliking Ashley is because they dislike the CHARACTER. And that simply isn't going to change by bringing back JJ or dying Ashley's hair at this point.
Besides, do you realize how bad and disloyal it would look for the showrunner to say they hope to get rid of a series regular? She would NEVER say that, even if for some reason she didn't think the Ashley character was a good fit, and she clearly has no problem with the character.
Rosie, I just think it is lame and a cop out to try and cover up for what has been shown on a large scale, I strongly believe, to be an epic fail. It is one thing to include the look alike thing as one possible reason, another to just point that as being the sole reason.
If Messer and TPTB want to continue burying their heads in the sand with regard to Seaver, then so be it, but my head won't be down there with them. It is just sad what has been done to this show in the name of God knows what.
LaShawna, I think it is a major sign of disrespect to the people who have taken the time to post their objections about this character here to be given some BS line about the fact that she is not liked because of her hair color.
You are right, as a showrunner she would never say anything in contrary to a character, that would be a sure fire way to lose her job. I am just tired of this nonsense. What is the point of asking for feedback if when you get it you completely ignore it. I'm not saying that they have to follow what people are saying, but seriously, to ignore 98-99% of the reason people think this character is crap, reducing it to hair color. This is just insulting, but like I said, they can continue to bury their heads in the sand, I am just not going to bury mine along with them.
What a season finale on Criminal Minds! WOOHOO JJ!! But I'm worried about these shake-ups. Unless Seaver leaves. Then I'm okay with it. Any news for me? — Marge
Don't misinterpret JJ's return as a push to the exit for Seaver (Rachel Nichols) so fast there, Marge. Per EP Erica Messer: "No, it doesn't necessarily mean [she's leaving]. Honestly, they're not the same character. And I think it was unfortunate because they look so much alike that people rejected Seaver because she seemed like she was a replacement for JJ,” she said. “As far as I'm concerned, she is a part of this team…I don't want her to just disappear."
Dear Erica:
(here's hopping you get to read this, and do it with an unprejudiced and open mind)
First: allow me state here that I find Rachel Nichols funny, down-to-earth and just plain sweet, and do that since before she filmed a single scene in Our Show.
Second: I'm completely convinced that, by now, there is not a single fan of Our Show that thinks that Seaver and JJ are the same character, not one.
Third: Producers, writers and now you, all seem to forget that repeating a lie DOESN'T make it true.
I'm not going to say that when Seaver was first introduced in Our Show, a good number of people just plain rejected her because of the horrible decisions taken during the summer by the suits at CBS.
What I'm going to say is that as we, fans have watched all of the episodes with her as a recurring and main character in Our Show, we have had the opportunity to develop an informed opinion about Seaver herself as a BAU agent. And here is when you all come out as blind and deaf,
- Seaver, as a newly graduate agent from the Academy, NEVER could be appointed to work in the BAU. Not in the real life one, not in the one from Our Show. In both world, has been repeated time and again that any FBI agent to get one of those post MUST have EXPERIENCE as a field agent and the accompanying academic CREDENTIALS. Seaver has NONE.
- Due to the above, Seaver can contribute NOTHING positive to the development of the episodes if her newly graduate status is respected, or comes as an utterly UNBELIEVABLE character if the scripts give her lines and attitudes corresponding to those of a seasoned agent. And mixing both, just makes a jumbled mess that irritates even more our already adequately irritated nerves because DEGRADES the quality of the episodes.
Fourth: I (and hope my fellow fans), as a loyal fan and faithful viewer, can understand that you don't want for Seaver to just dissapear. I (and probably my fellow fans), as a loyal fan and faithful viewer, CANNOT accept nor understand if Seaver will continue to be a character in Our Show longer than the minimum time needed to give her a proper and decent send off (and this only out of respect and fondness for Rachel).
Five: Anything YOU can do to get Thomas Gibson's contract renewed, please do. Anything WE can do to help achieve this goal, please ask.
With love, Maria
Watched the EP twice and honestly, wish I can say I liked it a lot.It seemed (to me) most of the season finales on shows were less than dramatic this year - (say for a couple). I felt a bit disjointed watching it, but it is Crimnal Minds and I will always support the show, even in my angst of losing cast members or maybe losing them. I haven't had much enthusiasm for this season (say for a few EP's),and hope that the break over the next few months or so allows everyone (CBS Execs, writers/Exec. Prod.) to do some soul searching and find a way to revamp things. I don't have the opportunity to respond as much as many here do, but the fans have legit points; I do believe many listen but have their hands tied due to higher authorities who crave the $$$ & think they know best.
I liked the character of Andi Swan played by Amy-Price Francis. I remember her from the show 24 (she plays a great villian) and didn't know she was born in England and lived in Canada? Anyway, I was drawn to her the first moment on screen - I think she would make a good recurring character next season for a case or two.(A nice touch to pay tribute to Andy Swan who was taken to soon).
The current issue of TV Guide has "possible" listing of the Fall Season for the networks. Disclaimer: not all Fall schedules are set, but as far as NBC comedies go, I don't see Paget's (but that can mean squat -I don't want to start anything). I'm curious how it tested. I love Paget in comedy!
Onward and upward I hope for season 7! Hoping to get news on TG over the summer (I have some savings to pitch in if it will help?) I guess too that "Emilys" cat Sergio may have had his contract pulled too, since no mention of the poor animal....
Have a great summer everyone. Stay safe and be well...
What a season finale on Criminal Minds! WOOHOO JJ!! But I'm worried about these shake-ups. Unless Seaver leaves. Then I'm okay with it. Any news for me? — Marge
Don't misinterpret JJ's return as a push to the exit for Seaver (Rachel Nichols) so fast there, Marge. Per EP Erica Messer: "No, it doesn't necessarily mean [she's leaving]. Honestly, they're not the same character. And I think it was unfortunate because they look so much alike that people rejected Seaver because she seemed like she was a replacement for JJ,” she said. “As far as I'm concerned, she is a part of this team…I don't want her to just disappear."
Dear Erica:
(here's hopping you get to read this, and do it with an unprejudiced and open mind)
First: allow me state here that I find Rachel Nichols funny, down-to-earth and just plain sweet, and do that since before she filmed a single scene in Our Show.
Second: I'm completely convinced that, by now, there is not a single fan of Our Show that thinks that Seaver and JJ are the same character, not one.
Third: Producers, writers and now you, all seem to forget that repeating a lie DOESN'T make it true.
I'm not going to say that when Seaver was first introduced in Our Show, a good number of people just plain rejected her because of the horrible decisions taken during the summer by the suits at CBS.
What I'm going to say is that as we, fans have watched all of the episodes with her as a recurring and main character in Our Show, we have had the opportunity to develop an informed opinion about Seaver herself as a BAU agent. And here is when you all come out as blind and deaf,
- Seaver, as a newly graduate agent from the Academy, NEVER could be appointed to work in the BAU. Not in the real life one, not in the one from Our Show. In both world, has been repeated time and again that any FBI agent to get one of those post MUST have EXPERIENCE as a field agent and the accompanying academic CREDENTIALS. Seaver has NONE.
- Due to the above, Seaver can contribute NOTHING positive to the development of the episodes if her newly graduate status is respected, or comes as an utterly UNBELIEVABLE character if the scripts give her lines and attitudes corresponding to those of a seasoned agent. And mixing both, just makes a jumbled mess that irritates even more our already adequately irritated nerves because DEGRADES the quality of the episodes.
Fourth: I (and hope my fellow fans), as a loyal fan and faithful viewer, can understand that you don't want for Seaver to just dissapear. I (and probably my fellow fans), as a loyal fan and faithful viewer, CANNOT accept nor understand if Seaver will continue to be a character in Our Show longer than the minimum time needed to give her a proper and decent send off (and this only out of respect and fondness for Rachel).
Five: Anything YOU can do to get Thomas Gibson's contract renewed, please do. Anything WE can do to help achieve this goal, please ask.
With love, Maria
Like others, I do not see EM's words as saying she's staying. In fact, they certainly make it seem 50/50. Given that they CREATED this character, clearly none of them are going to trash her. However, the overwhelming majority of fans do not approve and as Maria mentioned, I think it's fair to let her stay a few episodes, just long enough to give her a decent sendoff.
And no, she was no rejected because she looks like AJ, and that was actually one of the little reasons, or rather annoying tidbits. The actual reasons are far more deep and understandable than that so hopefully the next time EM has a chat with us, someone will make that very clear.
Samantha, it's true that many reasons have been given for disliking Seaver. You ready for this?
;o)
She's blonde
She sits with one leg cradled in her arms
She knows too little
She knows too much
She's taking ------'s time and ------'s lines (substitute Hotch/Rossi/Morgan/Reid/Prentiss/etc)
The show is force-feeding us Seaver storylines
There's no justification for her presence
She looks like JJ
She's not JJ
She makes wrong guesses
She makes Rossi soft
She carries her gun wrong
She makes people turn off and that really messes with a) their sense of the plot b) their appraisal of the character herself. In fact, she is depriving fans of the show altogether because no one will ever watch again
She's not qualified, she's learning, you can't learn on the job
Her face is 'crooked'
She wears the grey shirts that Prentiss should have worn
She's weepy
She's SuperSeaver
She's cynical
Rachel Nichols has bad feet
She's 'disrespectful' to Reid
She's about to launch into an affair with Reid
She has 'watery' eyes
She's forward
She's backward
etc. I'm sure I've dropped some...
There's a lot of inventive thinking that goes towards dismissing her, some reasons better than others. (Bad feet and crooked face ain't good.) I'm assuming the reasons are varied because anything and everything that she does instantly becomes 'wrong' by virtue of the fact that she has done it.
And then there are the background reasons people say they don't have for disliking her but which are still part of the context that the actor has had to fight against:
She's new
She's 'replacing' JJ/Prentiss
It's change
At the centre of it all, there's an actor who keeps on working despite being surrounded by venom. Some of this is transferable: anyone who defends her on the forum is a troll. An actor or a writer who defends her is dismissed as 'toeing the party line' (Rick/Messer) or 'a perfect gentleman' (Hotch of course). I wonder why once, just once, someone who is opposed to Ashley doesn't see one tiny thing that they like about her. Me, I don't get Hotch, but I can still see the little moments where the actor sways me, or is charming, or has comic timing. And furthermore, I don't want the guy to leave the show. I'm not campaigning to get him out.
Where's the generosity here? There is generosity but it's all going in one direction.
I swear Hotch could fly round the room butt naked and people would find a reason to justify it as part of the story and his natural repertoire of skills!!! Why can't a smidgen of that tolerance be given to the new cast member who has been given such a hard time? Even if she were crap (and she isn't, IMO) she's a human being. Who can fight against the faceless internet?
UK viewer
PS She's not my absolute favourite character (the writers are going to have to do a bit more persuading) but I believe in fair play (even for others)
UKV
Uk viewer if people don't like the character, they don't like the character. They have given the character a chance and they don't like her. Regardless of the reasons, the outcome remains the same, seriously, it is that simple. For those like yourself who seem to like her, probably no reason will be sufficent as to why others don't like her. There have been enough given here throughout her presence on the show. LaShawana said it earlier, there are those who don't like the character that will not be swayed, others that do that will not be swayed, at the end of the day we are all at an impasse.
To answer your question, there is nothing that I like about the character. It is not a lack of generosity to say that there isn't anything that I like about the character, that is just the simple truth. Are there characters that I don't like that I may find something that I like about them? Yes, but this doesn't happen to be one of those characters, and this is not the only character that I would say about that, not on this show, but on other shows and movies. There is nothing wrong with that, it is just my opinion. In the end, we just have to accept what others feel whether we like it or not otherwise this will just be a wheel that keeps on spinning out of control.
ROFLMAO
I swear Hotch could fly round the room butt naked and people would find a reason to justify it as part of the story and his natural repertoire of skills!!!
PLEASE! Now that's funny!
Anonymous uk viewer. You are right on the money
Your post just shows that the people who don't like seaver their reasons they have is absolutely ridiculous. there is no basis for the dislikeness of Seaver at all and your post just proved it. That the people who don't like seaver is close minded people who is affraid of change.
Michael your statement just proved that for yourself. If you were to read any of the posts here which I hope that you do since you have commented here enough, you know that your statement is simply not true. There are a wide hosts of reasons people don't like the character. You don't like those reasons, okay, but they are reasons nonetheless and your inability to accept that people don't like this characetr says more about you than it does about them.
I accept that you like this character, I do, but you must also accept that I don't like this character as well as others. You cannot force people to like a character they don't like or attempt to belittle their opinion that they don't like the character. Again, that is more a reflection of you than them. As a fervent fan of Seaver, I don't think that is the type of position that benefits the character you re trying to support or yourself.
Michael. Time and time again you accuse anyone of opposing opinion of being narrow-minded. No offense, but you're guilty of just that youself.
Some like her, some don't and both have their reasons. The funny thing about opinions are, there aren't fact. So no one here is wrong unless they start name calling. I have heard a few good reasons as to why people like Seaver, I just don't feel the same. It's opinion and therefore it's so unfair for you to classify EVERYONE who dislikes Seaver as close-minded because once again, you just demonstrated a great deal of close-mindedness.
Roshini, I do understand your 'it is that simple' point. That's believable and intuitively right. We like or dislike people for reasons we can't trace. There are divine people I can't get on with, and absolute bu*g*rs that I love. Where I'd be even more persuaded re. Seaver though is if there was a little 'give' or flex in it. If there were moments of grudging approval. Grudging approval would be a HUGE advance! I guess it seems more like an abstract position than a human feeling if there are no mixed feelings about someone. Dunno. Any way, I want to say thank you for the respectful tone of your post. I know I'm treading on dangerous waters and every time someone is nice back again it does my heart good.
Michael, I agree with you altogether in defending the character, but I'm afraid I don't see the people who don't like her quite as black and white as you do. It seems to me that there's such heat about the show's changes because everyone feels that she or he is defending their own best idea of what CM is. I also think it's likely that some of the reasons for disliking the character are good ones.
Hell, I love Rossi and he is full of faults (I'm tempted to write a long list of them just for fun). Seaver's bound to have faults too, or she wouldn't be human. But on the other hand it is extremely unlikely that everything she does is wrong.
UK viewer
Hmmm honestly, the fact that there is still this much turmoil over this one character... "Here's your sign."
UKV, I get where you're coming from and while I'm definitely one of the people who want her gone, I do get what you're saying. The truth is, it's human nature to get to that point of disliking someone so much, the mere presence is annoying. Now I'm not saying that's right or okay, but it's human nature. Trust me... just went through it with my ex-roommate. And I know I feel that way about Seaver and I know not everything she does is horrid. That being said, a lot of people are at that point and as demonstrated with Prentiss and Rossi, the CM fans are not completely unaccepting to any change because we have dealt with a lot in the past. I just think this is an instance in which this character has simply crossed over into the dark side of human nature in which many will not change their mind. No more time left for that.
My two cents.
I was very much opposed to the Seaver character in the beginning, but I started to like her quickly (even though I didn`t want to at first). She is not my favorite character but she is an interesting character and I want to know more about her. I like all her scenes with the other characters and I also think she is a nice lovable person. I hope she stays with the team.
UKV, I get where you're coming from and while I'm definitely one of the people who want her gone, I do get what you're saying. The truth is, it's human nature to get to that point of disliking someone so much, the mere presence is annoying. Now I'm not saying that's right or okay, but it's human nature. Trust me... just went through it with my ex-roommate. And I know I feel that way about Seaver and I know not everything she does is horrid. That being said, a lot of people are at that point and as demonstrated with Prentiss and Rossi, the CM fans are not completely unaccepting to any change because we have dealt with a lot in the past. I just think this is an instance in which this character has simply crossed over into the dark side of human nature in which many will not change their mind. No more time left for that.
Loren, that's so much wisdom. I applauded. It's two o'clock in the morning and I'm sitting here applauding. It's worth having a scrap about a TV character to get a post like that!
The chancy sporting side of me wants to see what on earth can be done to pull the character back from 'the dark side of human nature'. But when you put it in those terms, it's a terrific big battle for the writers.
UKV
Yay, UKV! Haha and that's after a long day of working at Disney World so I'm a little proud of myself! Haha but yeah, the writers have a major task ahead of them should the decide to keep her. If it's any consolation, I was able to basically ignore her in the finale, which is a major step for me!
But again, I'm glad there are people from both sides who can have an actual conversation and not be at each other's throats.
Okay so I skimmed some of these comments and here is what I don't get. JJ signed a two year contract and she will just come back as JJ. They did it a little sloppy, but all we wanted was JJ back so we should stop complaining. Now, the Prentiss thing has me really confused. How in the world would she come back? She is dead. I have been wondering it. Now...we never actually saw her die so there is the theory that she never died and she went into protection and she is secretly living plotting on catching doyle and opening a new can of worms or she will play the whole dead ghost thing. People, until said otherwise SHE IS DEAD.
Zagi, her conversations with the others was one of the tipping points for me too. I know it's a dodgy territory to cite this example because everyone loves Reid (me too), but her conversation with Reid in this episode (while they were putting up pictures and coming to terms with the case) was really delicately done and interesting from the point of view of both characters. I liked the way that Reid was both his characteristic instant recall nerdy self and slightly (it seems to me) showing off to the pretty girl. It's just a touch.
I really liked the contrast between his rapid fire command of facts and her (yes, it's true) more watery and slow way of questioning him. The little look she sent him before she asked about more victims was terrific.
She's lived with a man who deceived her and that hurts. This man is capable only of telling the truth and that might hurt too. But she still asks. She flinches before she asks.
That's one of the things that her presence can do for the show. We get used to Reid. Seeing him through another person's eyes makes Reid show up more distinctively. It would be true for any new character perhaps, but Seaver's very young-seeming spirit adds in a different tone.
I'm always interested to see how the other team members will relate to her for that reason.
UKV
Righto that's me now. Night night to everyone. Thanks for the good conversation.
:o)
UK V
Maybe this is not the place to discuss about Seaver character, but I want to put my thoughts why I start to dislike Seaver AFTER several episodes (actually After "The Stranger").
Before "Lauren", I don't love or hate Seaver, just accepted her there as she was, sometimes her way of showing was odd for me (like when Rossi asked help from her in Lauren), but that's it. And I didn't understand why many fans hated her so much.
When I saw "The Stranger", I felt I could actually understand her motivation in BAU. I felt that she wanted to save (protect) women from serial killers to compensate for what her father did to his victims, and at the same time, she wanted to understand her father as much as possible. I felt that from the "The Stranger" and I thought I could like her character.
BUT, after that, instead of starting to like her, I find myself start to understand why so many fans hate her.
My reasons can be divided in two.
First, she acts like she is experienced profiler more and more as episodes goes, and it's just odd and I can't feel right about it more and more.
Given the background that she just fresh out of academy, the way she gives profile just like anybody else on the team as if she is seasoned profiler is.... very odd and incongruous for me.
Secondly, her snotty attitude starting to annoy me more as episodes goes. It's not the type of snotty like; "I'm a daughter of serial killer, a had very very hard time because of that, I don't trust people easily, I can stand by myself without help, leave me alone". That's kind of stereotype, but I can understand that kind of arrogance given her background. But no, not that kind of arrogance but "of course I fit in the team. Why wouldn't I? Of course everybody love me and accept anything I do and say." type of arrogance. I don't know it's because of acting or writing (maybe both), but I feel that kind of arrogance from her more and more recent episode and it just ...
IF she was written actually like fresh agent, eager and trying to learn from the team and struggle to fit in, some conflict from the team especially Morgan and Hotch, to see how she will earn the trust from them (especially Hotch), that would be interesting to see although I know inexperienced agent is not qualified to join the BAU.
But she just "fit in" and acts like a experienced profiler and sometimes she acts like more experienced than anyone. I think it doesn't work and more time goes, a sense of incongruity gets more and more obvious.
It is not close-minded to like someone or something for whatever reason. Some people like Pepsi, some people don't like Pepsi. Some people like me, some people don't like me. Some people want to marry this girl, some people don't want to marry that same girl. People are entitled to their preferences, whatever the reason may be. Would you try to force a vegetarian to eat meat? Or call a vegetarian close-minded? No. So, some people like Seaver, some people don't. Not liking her doesn't make that person close-minded.
The point made, that fans will choose not to like Seaver NO MATTER WHAT should be a big glaring red light to the Network and to the Producers. Why continue with such a character? A character that many of your HARD CORE fans will refuse to accept NO MATTER WHAT? That is futile and a BAD BUSINESS DECISION in my opinion. Sure, I feel sorry for the actress. It is not her fault. But this is not personal. It's business. Just as it was not personal to let JJ or PB go last year, so it is the same with Seaver. She is not working out.
Would it be a nice challenge for the writers? Yes. A very big one. A very very big challenge. In fact, the writers spent almost an entire season on this same challenge and where has it led? Nowhere, in my opinion. OOC writing for the other characters maybe. I mean, look at Reid: relegated to 'headache guy'. And Rossi: relegated to "Daddy Rossi". Other shows have let characters go for much less fan dislike. I am truly puzzled as to why Seaver is still around. In my opinion, to keep her for Season 7 would be a bad business decision. To waste the writers' time and energy in a futile attempt to get people to like an unpopular character could be better spent on developing the characters that are already loved and on creating really fantastic profiling, unsubs, and episodes.
Maybe this is not the place to discuss about Seaver character, but I want to put my thoughts why I start to questioning Seaver's presence AFTER several episodes (actually After "The Stranger").
Before "Lauren", I don't love or hate Seaver, just accepted her there as she was, sometimes her way of showing was odd for me (like when Rossi asked help from her in Lauren), but that's it. And I didn't understand why many fans hated her so much.
When I saw "The Stranger", I felt I could actually understand her motivation in BAU. I felt that she wanted to save (protect) women from serial killers to compensate for what her father did to his victims, and at the same time, she wanted to understand her father as much as possible. I felt that from the "The Stranger" and I thought I could like her character.
BUT, after that, instead of starting to like her, I find myself start to understand why so many fans hate her.
My reasons can be divided in two.
First, she acts like she is experienced profiler more and more as episodes goes, and it's just odd and I can't feel right about it more and more.
Given the background that she just fresh out of academy, the way she gives profile just like anybody else on the team as if she is seasoned profiler is.... very odd and incongruous for me.
Secondly, her snotty attitude starting to be noticed more and more as episodes goes. It's not the type of snotty like; "I'm a daughter of serial killer, a had very very hard time because of that, I don't trust people easily, I can stand by myself without help, leave me alone". That's kind of stereotype, but I can understand that kind of arrogance given her background. But no, not that kind of arrogance but "of course I fit in the team. Why wouldn't I? Of course everybody love me and accept anything I do and say." type of arrogance. I don't know it's because of acting or writing (maybe both), but I feel that kind of arrogance from her more and more recent episode and it just ...
IF she was written actually like fresh agent, eager and trying to learn from the team and struggle to fit in, some conflict from the team especially Morgan and Hotch, to see how she will earn the trust from them (especially Hotch), that would be interesting to see although I know inexperienced agent is not qualified to join the BAU.
But she just "fit in" and acts like a experienced profiler and sometimes she acts like more experienced than anyone. I think it doesn't work and more time goes, a sense of incongruity gets more and more obvious.
Ok, I took some time to center myself; spent some quality time with my family, read some Diana Gabaldon, watched some older CM eps and some Dharma & Greg, cuddled with Hotch Cat and let Kiefer Kitty scratch me as she doesn’t care to cuddle and then I re-watched the finale.
Firstly, what a wonderful tribute to Andy Swan, my thoughts and prayers are with his family and friends. As a finale it was a bit disappointing but I really feel that Erica Messer’s hands were tied with the BTS drama (shame on you CBS/ABC.) She does a great job dropping in “cookies” in her episodes, thank you!
I really enjoy Garcia and Kevin and I think I read somewhere on here that Garcia doesn’t say “I love you” to Kevin…I heard her say it to him first at the start of the episode. (Nicholas Brendon played a rapist on ABC’s Private Practice and did a phenomenal job.) Anywho, Garcia’s interactions with Hotch, Morgan and Kevin were all really well done and when she watches Hotch leave, I was so sad for her, Hotch and me.
Rossi was fantastically snarky and the banter between him and Morgan was spot on old time CM. Taking the fingerprint with his phone was very Jack Bauer. I enjoyed seeing Morgan having his ass handed to him by the big guy, Rossi saving him and then Morgan landing a solid right to the jerk, perfect Morgan. I’m glad Morgan returned the favor by saving Rossi. Yeah for Reid “You should start working out” was very funny and I’m so happy that we have JJ back to call him Spence again. I wish the last scene with JJ had been with Hotch, it would have made much more sense and for the fans to have him welcome her back would have been a real treat. It’s going to be hard to pull off how Rossi was able to pull strings that Hotch couldn’t. (If that’s what happened)
The unsub was a bit of a surprise the first time I watched but when I watched it a second time I noticed that when she walked down the dark hallway, just before the opening credits, with her cohorts and victim she was definitely carrying herself as the one in charge. The unsub story was good, I enjoy Erica Messer’s writing but I think there has been something missing now that Debbie Fisher is no longer partnering, they wrote some real venomous villains in their episodes.
I’m no fan of the character Seaver either; hoping she exits quickly at the start of S7. I did however very much like Andi Swan, she was a great character. (I remembered Amy Price-Francis from 24 S7 and she was great in that too.) I agree with others on this blog that if a new character of her caliber had been introduced it would have been much easier to accept.
MY HERO, Hotch was FANTASTIC!! I could feel the weight of the world on his shoulders as he maneuvered throughout this day. Hotch’s care for his team and the undercover agent, Renee, his profiling, why this victim, at this time and Andi’s line “All that from a pair of missing sneakers.” was perfect. (Oh my, I’m watching The Rain and the last scene where Hotch is walking out of the apartment building with Hallelujah playing; I may start tearing up again.) When Hotch leaves the office and the door closes behind him, YIKES, it broke my heart. Thomas is the reason I started watching CM and if he is not there for S7 and beyond I see no reason to watch any longer.
Please, please let Season 7 be: Hotch, Prentiss, Rossi, Morgan, Reid, JJ and Garcia.
CBS did finally add some new CM items to the CBS Store, season 5 team looks great!
i am a longtime CM viewer i am thrilled by the news that seaver will stay. She is a very interesting character.
Robotstella, Prentiss is not dead. At the end of the Lauren episode, JJ meets up with Prentiss to give her some passports. Both JJ and Hotch know that she is alive.
What she is doing now, if she is chasing Doyle down or just hiding from him, was never explained. If the Prentiss character comes back on the show which I am praying really hard that she does, then they will get into what she has been doing, if she has been chasing down Doyle, or if she is just in hiding. She is definitely alive though, so no Emily coming back as a ghost :)
Ditto what Heather said about Prentiss. I want her to come back too. PLEASE PAGET COME BACK!!!
I have been a fan of the show since it began and though I love Reid so much, I just can't get past the Seaver character. I haven't been commenting on the episodes because I just can't get past the first few minutes of Seaver, that's how much she bothers me :(
My problem with Seaver has never been that she has blond hair, does or doesn't look like JJ, has bad feet (never heard that one), wears the wrong shirt or carries her gun wrong. She seems nice enough except when she's disrespecting Reid.
My problem has always been with the conceptualization of the character to begin with. A cadet/probationary agent has no business in the BAU. It's that simple. She's had none of the training that, according to the originator of the BAU, John Douglas, on this very blog, takes two years. So, she's not qualified to be there. I can even see her learning on the job. What I can't see is her giving profiles. She's stepping in out of the academy and taking on a role that, not even, JJ could take on and she'd been with the team for almost 7 years she said before she left.
I think they could have easily remedied this. RN is 31 years old, a year younger that AJC and a few months older that MGG. She could easily have graduated from the academy a few years back and have been working in a field office, as she should be, when approached by Rossi for her help on the case. She could even be in the process of taking the profiling classes trying to see what made her father tick. That way she would have brought some experience to the table and this character wouldn't be so totally unbelievable. We'd have been saved from her having to ask some silly questions sometimes because she would have some experience under her belt. I think that is a character that I might have been able to accept rather than this newbie who stands up there and talks like she knows as much as Hotch and Rossi do. That's when her presence becomes like fingers on a chalkboard for me.
We've been told to give her a chance and she's had a chance. It's not like I'm saying this after two episodes. She's had half a season. So did CMSB and look what happened to it when people didn't like it. To CBS half a season was long enough for the viewing audience to make a decision. I do not think it's unfair to say the same should apply to Seaver.
I rarely leave a comment on Seaver, but here i am. I was about to discuss the topic but Kury - you seem to have gone digging into my mind, kidnapped all my thoughts and typed them here.
I also agree with UKV about writers' freedom. Yes, going for the majority view is somehow like going around in circles. At some point you have to put your foot down and just get on with it. Unfortunatelany, TV is not the cinema or the novelistic universe. And for a long-running show that hasn't presumably conceived an end, yet, it's that much more difficult to ignore the popular view. Here, it'll run as long as the moolah continues to come in, which i believe is ultimately detrimental to the integrity of any show's inception and conceptualisation. If there is no artistic end in sight, you tend to go with the flow and that flow is influenced by a myriad externalities. If the writers were determined, from the onset, that they would at some point have a character like Seaver, they perhaps would have written her better, going from the small to the big. It seems to have gone backwards with this character. They started off with this enormous concept and backtracked. So at this point, they are doing this un-co-ordinated dance - do we make her confident or diffident, questioning or assured, strong or vulnerable? In the real world of course we are all these things, but i never saw Minds as being that kind of TV show. The characters were conceived, imo, as being likeable, admirable, strong, righteous and moral. And in the midst of this motley of goodness arrived a character that was neither here nor there, just insipid. I love Mad Men, inordinately so, but i've never felt that i was meant to LIKE any of those characters. They are human and mean and malicious and vengeful with bursts of generosity maybe, but Minds isn't like that, at least not to me. The Minds people perhaps don't have the luxury of freedom and time to do that. They need these characters to be liked/loved passionately and irrationally. They can't do that with the Seaver character because their hands were forced and they didn't have time.
Ooofff, sorry for going on like that. Hope i made a little bit of sense!
Agree with" two cents worth said, Kury and Pat. And that's all I will say so I don't break my own "don't knock Seaver but once per day" rule:)
mfj1311: I enjoyed your post and want to finish enjoying watching it a 2nd time like RIGHT NOW.
G'nite all.
i wrote a loooong post and then it disappeared!! And i didn't copy it - stupid me!!
So here i go, again. i've rarely left a comment about Seaver, but here you go.
Kury, thank you for your post. It reflects many of my own thoughts on the character.
UKV, i also agree with you regarding artistic freedom. However, i think it is infinitely more difficult to do on a TV show, especially with a long-running show such as this. I don't think in this case the writers began with any narrative and structural 'end' in sight. These are meant to go on as long as there is monetary inflow and profits. So they usually tend to go with the flow and that is influenced by a myriad externalities. They do not have the freedom of the cinema or the novelistic universe, and going with the majority view, although a bit like running around in circles, is what they can do. Yes, at some point the writers have to put their foot down and get on with it, but in a set-up such as this, they perhaps cannot do this.
If the writers had conceived Minds as a world that would at some point have a character like Seaver, they perhaps would have written her better, going from the small to the big. But in this case, with all the external pressures of money and popularity, they seem to have started off big and then backtracked. So we are now left with an uncoordinated dance - do we make her confident or diffident, questioning or assured, vulnerable or strong? Of course, in the real world, we are all these things, but that's not how i have ever looked at Minds. I believe the writers conceived the Minds characters as being likeable, admirable, righteous and moral, and in the midst of all this 'goodness' arrived a character that is neither here nor there, insipid almost.
I love Mad Men to distraction but i never really thought i was meant to LIKE any of the characters there - they are malicious, low, vengeful and arrogant with bursts of generosity. And because the basis of inception presumably never was likeability in MM, the writers had the freedom, in terms of both characterisation and plot, to go places that the Minds writers cannot (afford to).
A character like Seaver needs an enormous amount of time to be developed, and Minds does not have the luxury of that.
I don't understand why it isn't okay to discuss the Seaver character. In my opinion, there was a serious credibility gap with them alllowing the child of a serial killer to become an agent. They do extensive background checks on agents, and I really don't think someone with that kind of family history would be hired by the FBI. Then she screwed up in the very 1st episode and they overlooked it? I can see them utilizing someone with her perspective on a consultation basis, but that's it. To be fair, I don't think they gave the character very good lines or did a great job of transitioning her into the show. She appears in the 1st episode and from the 2nd one on, she's making all these proclamations as though she's a veteran team member. An intern would be watching, listening. And no, I don't like the character, or the quality of the acting. I think perhaps the character was doomed from the start because of how she was brought into the script. And what were they thinking by bringing in a J.J. lookalike? What did that accomplish? The show did suffer from some of the turns the writing took this season. That said, I still think at it's worst, it is still one of the best shows on television, and I hope it will return to its previous calibre in terms of plotting, etc. I really do want to see more of Hotch and Reid in future episodes and I never tire of Garcia. The woman who played Andy Swan would make a fine addition to the cast.
But I don't see the show continuing without Thomas Gibson leading the team and the cast.
Does anyone know where I can view the show without having to wait all summer for the rerun? My DVR screwed up and recorded the rerun that came on prior to the season finale & then, apparently there wasn't room for the 9:00 - 10:00 show.
Anonymous...you can see clips on IMDB and the full episode will be available on itunes soon.
I wanted to say a little about Rossi and his possible ability to get JJ back over Hotch's ability. Yes, it is very possible. From the 1st show with Rossi, we learned that he was an original of the BAU. He chose to leave and write books for a living, books about what he did while in the BAU. Although Strauss is the Section Chief of the Unit, she was still able to be cowed by him. Politically I believe he has more clout. She was not a part of the original unit and I don't think that she was the chief when he originally was in the unit. They had met at other times possibly during meetings with the director or even in a more personal area of business dinners. Not as co-workers.
In other episodes we hear from Rossi about hearing things that might be happening. i.e. Morgan getting the New York if the woman gets canned, hearing about Hotch in getting flack and problems during the Foyet episodes. The man has connections. He can pull strings that Hotch or even Strauss cannot do.
That is one of the things I like about him. I think that is why Seaver was able to become a part of the unit at this time, he also likes her.
Anonymous. Yeah the FBI do that. But this is a tv show. If they did background checks on all. Prentiss would never work for the FBI either, with her hidden past and you know you are totally contradicting yourself, if you like Prentiss to say what you are saying.
Ys it is a TV show, but within that TV show are parameters that the show itself set up for what is acceptable in the world of the BAU. Seaver does not fit within any of those parameters. It is insulting that TPTB at the network and CM think that the audience would not catch onto the fact that this character flies in the face of what they had so vigorously set up for this show.
I must say this, that as much as the Seaver character bugs the hell out of me, and as much as I have criticized her on this blog, I feel for the actress, truly. I think Rachel Nichols stepped into an almost impossible situation.
Firstly, many of the fans were angry at the dismissal of AJ Cook, then there was the impending exit of Prentiss. We've all said that we've dealt with change before, and that that wasn't the problem but this was a different situation. Lola and Mandy left of their own free will, they weren't ousted like Paget and AJ so when Joe and Paget appeared on the scene the fans weren't angry. The fact that Rachel is a pretty blond is not her fault. If TPTB wanted to stress that she was not a replacement for JJ then they should have gone for a completely different look. They didn't. That shouldn't fall on the actress' shoulders.
Secondly, the character they created was so ill conceived it has been impossible for me, and many others, to find her at all believable. That is not RN's fault either. She didn't create the character. She only tries to portray her as written.
I think when the writers saw she was not being well received, she asked too many dumb questions etc. they tried to fix it and went to the opposite extreme so Seaver is now giving profiles like she's a professional, again not the actress' fault. That falls on the writers.
Now I also think the writers had loaded plates. They had to deal with the loss of JJ, introduce this new character and plan a exit arc for Paget while still turning out cases for the team. It's been a tough season. A lot of these were also writers who weren't all that familiar with the series.
They couldn't show Seaver learning the ropes, too many other areas needed attention so a proper development of her character was never achieved. That's when I think they kind of got desperate and we found things like, "She'd want us to embrace Seaver," or showing her at the movies with Garcia, Morgan and Reid, an attempt to say to the audience, "See, she does fit in." Then came the pleas from the cast to support her. A character that's well conceived and well acted doesn't need the writers to write these things to support it. The character stands on it's own merits and Seaver doesn't. But now that they've made this character who she is, they can't turn back and have a do over. I think it's too late and, with the fan uproar over CBS actions, new writers dealing with difficult and contentious situations, behind the scenes drama and an ill conceived character, Rachel Nichols walked into a perfect storm.
Pat very well said, thank you.
With everything that has gone on, and at this point, I think they need to move on from this character and start patching up the areas in the show that need mending. Additional time trying to flesh out and have people try and accept a character that is this ill- conceived and not very well received is just taking time, energy, and resources from the areas of the show that even the new showrunner has admitted they need to get in there and fix.
Pat,
You are right. Thank you for being the voice of reason.
I wish both Thomas Gibson and Rachel Nichols all the best, whether on Criminal Minds or not.
Pat, I agree with you 100% and actually feel badly for Rachel Nichols. But that said, it does not solve a problem she did not create; she is strictly part of the fall-out of all actions taken before and the writers trying to backpedal to make it work.
No hate here. Just want the show it be back to the way it was before Season Six. Period.
Paget please come back!!
I love the team like it is now.
Reid and seaver have great chemistry together.
gubegirl said....
"No hate here. Just want the show it be back to the way it was before Season Six. Period."
YES!!!! Come on CBS, fix what YOU broke!
I don’t think we should assume anything from Erica Messer’s reply.
Whether or not she really thinks Seaver should stay, she’s not going to say anything else, and the same goes for the writers.
When some fans asked his opinion, Rick Dunkle said that he liked to write for Seaver.
I’m not saying that he was lying, maybe he genuinely likes the character and was being truthful.
But even if his opinion was different, he would still say the same thing.
They have to stick to the official policy concerning Seaver (and support her) no matter what they might really think. Even if one of them doesn’t think the character “fits” he or she won’t be at liberty to say it.
So, I’m not going to take their replies at face value.
We don’t know what’ll happen, we have to wait to learn the fate of Rachel Nichols/Paget Brewter/Thomas Gibson.
I also have to say that if Erica Messer really thinks that the problem with Seaver is her physical similarities with JJ, then she didn’t pay attention in the slightest to what a lot of fans have been saying.
Her physical appearance is not the issue and the character of Andy Swan proved that fans could accept a new female character, even if they miss JJ/Prentiss.
I have absolutely nothing against Rachel Nichols who seems to be very sweet (and I honestly feel bad for her) but I would really prefer to see Seaver leaving the show by next season.
On another, unrelated, topic, I don’t know what Erica Messer has planned for the seventh season, but I hope this show won’t turn into a soap opera (and I’m really not a fan of romance on this show – I hope they'll give more interesting storylines to the characters).
Mahële said: "On another, unrelated, topic, I don’t know what Erica Messer has planned for the seventh season, but I hope this show won’t turn into a soap opera (and I’m really not a fan of romance on this show – I hope they'll give more interesting storylines to the characters)."
From what I get out of the latest Erica Messer chats , I worry a little bit that she might turn the show into a soap opera. Her Line about JJ "JJ will be dealing with a lot this season. and her home life will be a part of that." makes me fear the worst. I don`t know what Messer has planned for JJ, but I do not want a repeat of the Hotch/Haley story line only this time with JJ/Will and I also do not want any sick children story lines in the show. And Messer`s comment about her smiling for days because of the Hotch/Rossi/Jack soccer scene also makes me worry a bit that she turns the show in a soap opera family show. I hope she does not forget that CM is a crime show.
The more I read from Erica, the more concerned I become, particularly about the JJ character. Yes she is popular but I don't want to see her role enlarged beyond what it was. This year was almost totally devoted to Prentiss and JJ leaving and Seaver arriving and the rest was the Morgan and Garcia show. The Reid, Hotch and to some degree the Rossi characters have been pushed to the background for far too long. I have no interest in seeing JJ become the superhero thay turned her into when she left. (The Pentagon, really and then within 5 months, the State Department,really) I really do like the original JJ character but it would be a mistake to greatly enlarge her role. Concentrate on profiling and the profilers. One thing that does kind of bother me is the obsession with children and family. If you are going to look a little at personal lives, being single does not mean the others do not have lives. I would like the writers to get creative and use there imagination and not just show cute kids once and a while. I feel they are just throwing the fans a bone instead of looking at these characters as people who have lives even it they are not married with a kid.
But I think it is important to note that an episode has only about 42 or 43 minutes to delve into the case, with maybe a few minutes for some personal look ito the characters lives. Highlighting a child here and there doesn't require as much time as perhaps something more personal in the lives of the single characters other than probably them meeting up with a family member like Reid did with his mother. Garcia and Kevin are lightly touched on in a way that does not really take away from the episode. I think the lighthearted nature of Garcia and Kevin lend to a somewhat more superficial look in their lives than perhaps the other characters. I think the team interaction and dynamic is where a more personal look if you will would work given the amount of time that everything has to function within.
zagi,
That's exactly why I'm concerned myself.
I think that the private life of the BAU team members should remain unseen for the most part.
The scene with Hotch, Rossi and Jack at the soccer game was cute, but I only want that in little doses.
I was fine with JJ being with Will and having Henry. I don't need to see JJ and Will fighting and I don't want JJ's private life to become a drama.
I really appreciate scenes like the one we had at the end of 'The Instincts', the team having dinner together, but that's it.
I think the rest (and especially romance) is best left to the fans' imagination and to fanfiction.
I don't need to see more of their private life and I don't want to see them dating strangers they have just very conveniently met on a case.
I'm more than fine with believing that they all have a life outside of work, I don't need to see it, I can imagine it for myself.
Criminal Minds is a show that deals with serial killers (for the most part). Like you said it's a dark show, one that needs to focus on the cases, I don't want that to change.
I also like the scenes that focus on the team and on their dynamics, on the 'family feel', because it's part of who they are and how they deal with the job. But these moments should remain little scenes within the BAU team.
I don't want this show to become 'Days of our lives' or something like that.
Reid freaks: You must check our MGG's GQ style modeling photos from last week.
I will not post the link here unless Jill gives permission for me to do so but they are very cool and well worth seeing! Our boy is looking so junior-professorish, collegiate, handsome and cool. Love it.
Email me the link and I will post them on the blog :)
Jill-Clicking the blue "e-mail" on your profile does not give me your address. Maybe you could e-mail me and I will be happy to forward you the link. Sorry!
Mahële,
thank you for your answer to my post. I was afraid I was the only one who is concerned about the direction the show might take. I agree 100% with everything you said.
Mahële, Zagi,
I also a little worried about that.
Showing team interaction and team's personal life are good but Criminal Minds is THE CRIME SHOW in the first place.
I want good case story and good profiling first.
I want to see more psychological aspect of the case like earlier seasons.
I want to know why they do what day do, psychology of the unsub THROUGH investigation and I want to see good team moment within it, sometimes personal stuff.
I don't want ordinary cop show from Criminal Minds.
Characters are what people coming back to watch this show, that's true.
But, We need good case story first.
Got here in the end on this disgustingly cold, wet and windy Sunday morning. I reckon UK viewer's hexed the weather again. ;-)) I've had to put the heating on so send me some £££ - ha!
Most of what I wanted to say has already been covered in the preceding 374 comments, but my big mouth (via my typing fingers) is hard to silence, so here goes...
Nice creepy episode again. The fact that "nice" kids from "nice" backgrounds were being targeted brought home that anyone can be a victim of crime. The profiling we've been missing this seaso seems to be making a comeback, although it's still got a way to go before it gets back to its former glory.
Andy Swan's tribute: What a lovely idea and mark of respect for him. I also love those documentaries he filmed with MGG (read the comments on youtube - some people are so thick they believe it's real!). I hope MGG will release any unseen footage they filmed as an extra tribute.
I really liked the Andi Swan character too, she did the *real* Andy proud. A strong, independent ass-kicking female character - fabulous! If Prentiss doesn't come back (uurrgghh...) then perhaps she could be transferred to the BAU? (I nearly typed "Hotch's unit" there, don't get me started on that...)
Opening sequence. Nicely shot, you could really feel the driver's tension as he tried to overtake that lorry on the bendy road. At first I assumed he was a good guy trying to either escape from the baddies OR trying to rescue someone. It surprised me when they "popped the trunk" - I'm now wondering how many bodies I can get in the Limeymobile's boot! ;-)
I also liked the contrast between the horror of the subject matter and the beautiful scenery. You'd expect to find murder victims in a rough part of a town/city. I always find it especially poignant when a murder is reported on the news and the body then turns up in a beautiful, peaceful area.
(I know just what you mean UK viewer, about Virginia - or wherever it was filmed - looking amazing. I think it's because it's so hard to get that feeling of total isolation on this cramped little island. Maybe in remote areas of the Scottish Highlands, but whenever I come back from the US I feel like a rat in a cage for about a month. Once you're out of the cities everything is so "spacious", I love the fact you can drive for miles and miles barely seeing anybody or anything. Bliss...)
Nice twist with the relatively young woman running the kidnapping ring. She must have been one evil (insert appropriate adjective) to have all those men under her thumb. I assumed Rossi got suspicious when she said she'd been strapped down as I could see no evidence of bruising (e.g. on her wrists) to suggest she'd been restrained.
Some nice little team moments - like Reid telling Morgan he needed to start working out.
The ending: Certainly makes more sense it was supposed to be between JJ & Hotch. Even if Hotch comes back (pretty please, with a cherry on the top) the writers will now have to explain where Rossi fits into all this. Unless that's Rossi's secret? The wise old sage worked out Prentiss' death was a cover up? Perhaps we didn't see *that* part of Hotch & Rossi's conversation when they were talking in the office a few episodes back? Hmmm, speculation mode had kicked in - and that's a dangerous thing!
@ Gubegirl:
I also sacrified the tipple AND half an hour of treadmill time to watch when I got home from work on Thursday. I suppose they balance each other out in my bid to lose an inch of junk from my trunk (!!) before July. Would also love to see a photo of MGG as a fat kid with a perm - the mind boggles!
p.s. @ Gubegirl, part 2:
There's going to be some serious "seismic activity" in the kitchen at Limey Mansions this afternoon! ;-)
Does anyone else feel a little letdown over this finale?My feeling is they should have left the LAUREN episode for then,because to me, everything that came after was just 'eh,whatever' at best. The final scene made no sense to me with Rossi. It should have been Hotch/JJ.So are we to assume that maybe Rossi knows 'the secret'.Who knows anything anymore.
The loss of Emily/Paget leaves this huge hole in the team. One that 'new chick' will never fix,sorry.I just thought this episode belonged mid season somewhere. However, I am just so completely ***sed off with the behind the scenes drama this season.I almost did not come back to the show for awhile at all after the JJ episode. Yes, I went on a strike. Sometimes, I wish I had stayed on it. I came back for the "Reid secret" and the headache story, that went nowhere. I came back to see Emily leave, which only ticked me off even more.
Reid is my favorite character, though he seems to be constantly vanishing more and more these days.What a waste of Matthew's talents.The guest stars got more lines and screen time than he did last week. So did 'new chick'.Sorry, but the circumstances that brought her there will never sit well with me, and that is what I refer to her as.
I would really not blame Matthew if HE wanted out next year, to be honest.I just hope that Thomas comes back, and please Paget, come home. I want the seven back the way it was, the way it SHOULD be.Or else, I myself may not be back, not even for the promised stories of my fave character Reid.All CBS has done is screw with this show to the point of ruining it for all of us. They give us no credit, and think we are all forgiving. Maybe SOME of us are not so forgiving until they fix what was never broken.After all, we can choose with our remotes in September.I guess the bottom line for me is this is deja vu all over again, because they also messed with my 'former' fave,CSI NY to teh point where I gave up on it.
I just do not get the higher ups at CBS.What are they smoking? They seem to treat the CM cast like complete crap, yet kept Charlie Sheen around for years. Now it is Ashton Kutcher replacing him at 1 million bucks a show?Ah, the almighty dollar.
Oh and CBS, please do not get any brillaint idea of sending over some of those people from your late CM spinoff to the original.Just give us our team back.Is that too hard?
Agreed, although I enjoyed the episode it wasn't really what you'd expect from a finale. I suppose because things off-screen are so up in the air it was hard to come up with a monstrous cliffhanger that could definitely be followed up next season?
Mind you, "Lo-Fi" and the second part of "To hell... and back" had me literally falling off the sofa - so this would have had to be something exceptionally special to surpass those!
All the TG drama makes me wonder what'll happen next year when three more contracts'd be up in the air. Reid, i think, is the most popular of the lot - that'd mean a LOT of people having heart attacks. And KV/JM. Just lovely.
Me, i'm at the comfortably numb stage right now. Hotch Under the Bus Part III - eh, sequels rarely work.
I agree, as a season finale, it was underwhelming. All the behind the scenes drama has been a dampener on the show all throughout season 6 but especially on the finale. Watching Hotch walk out of the BAU for possibly one of the last times had my tummy in knots. The sad, fretting kind of knots. Not the "excited to see what will happen next season" kind of knots. Needless to say, if Hotch isn't there, I will not be watching anything that happens next season.
B.Limey:
Did you see I decided to forego the margaritas the night of the finale? (scared I was going to miss something cause I am a bit of a litewt. and had them the nite before during scrapping - they were yum and did a little more laughing than scrappin', if you must know...)
Good luck with your earthquake cake - hard to go wrong except it took almost ten minutes longer to bake than it said - quite the rich, gooey good stuff. Don't be afraid to use some real "grog" - whipping cream to top it off - which I tried a day or two later -YUM! The powdered sugar disappears into the cake witin hours and I wanted it to look PRETTY! Thus, the whipped cream...:)
Ran to CVS and the grocer's after AM yoga, hunting down the GQ to see the pics of MGG they are not in the June issue on stands now. Don't know If they were shot just last week or released recently, then maybe they will be in the next issue? But I think it is a quarterly magazine - UGH. Or maybe they are only on-line? They are so great, with even one with him in shorts, sitting on some steps, looking like a normal- sized person (sorry, Reid, you are a scrawny one but I love you anyway. What about air-mailing some of your earthquake cake to him, B. Limey? He could use it...)
Re: Reid and the shortage of his screen time: think back here, now: awhile back, he was doing the Vanity Fair shoot. He was at UNH last month for his PJ party/ speaking engagement, and now this GQ shoot which is more extensive than the VF one was. Not to mention Tribeca recently & last C'mas holiday, wasn't he in Japan? He has been off doing other stuff quite often, is my point. Now, this could be at his request, & TPTB are granting this time off; he could also be keeping all his options open, getting as much exposure as he can, albeit different venues, just in case...he doesn't get the raise he supposedly asked for; TG leaves; PB, his good friend, does not return, etc. Next year will be here before you know it and will we be still here sweating out his contract negotiations the way we have the others? Surely hope not. We will be forced to do some heavy "tippling" if that should come to pass, won't we, B. Limey?
Just to clarify about the lack of Reid. Matthew was in Japan in December to promote Criminal Minds. The Tribeca Film Festival and the New Hampshire speaking engagement were after he went on hiatus. The Soho fashion shoot was for Mr. Porter fashions and was also done during the hiatus. (He is listed in GQ as the #10 of the top 25 stylish men on TV.) I guess what I am saying is, yes, Matthew is busy but it is not during the shooting schedule. I really cannot explain why they have scaled back the character so much but I think the show has suffered. He was the one who could make Hotch smile, or at least grin a little and he brings both humor and emotion to the feel of the show. (Did you notice that the Reid character did not do a single episode quote from January 2010 to January 2011) Why a show would create such a unique character who is extremely popular and then just push the character into the background for 2 years is and absolute mystery to me. I hope we see more of him next year.
TY, anonymous. Now, Reid girls, you go find those pics! You won't be sorry - I want to print them they are so good!
And Shemar is on the cover of Muscle Body, GNC's mag (May issue -freebie with purchase) and nice article inside with more pics and details of his bike accident. So, go and buy yourself some vitamins -you may need them to get you thru the summer...:)
I hope we don't have three lots of contract shenanigans this time next year. However, I wouldn't blame them for trying to sort out something new between now and this time next year if CBS are going to be such tosspots over contracts, etc.
@ Gubegirl:
Still not seen those MGG pics, although I'm liking the thought of SM on the cover of the muscle mag... that man is a vision from heaven - haha!!
As for the cake... the earth has definitely moved for me! It's to die for - the vultures (gannets isn't descriptive enough) will be circling at work tomorrow. I had to split it between two tins as I don't have a 13x9 but that's fine until I buy one in a couple of weeks.
At present it's Banning Fault standard, next time it'll rival the San Andreas (I did geology at university but have never used it, my latent geology geek loves the whole concept of this cake). It went down a treat with a nice cup of tea while watching this evening's latest installment of Desperate Housewives...
OK, B. Limey, just WHAT IF you had the magazine with Shemar's awesome chocolate brown 6 pack (sev. more pics inside inc.1 in fatigues & another in his biking gear) AND Mr Porter's lovely 6 shots of MGG, looking oh-so GQ in clothes like he did NOT pull from his grandpa's closet: I think 3 are dress-up and the others are casual AND he is sporting a nice mustache and beard: prob'ly a couple wks' growth making him look less "baby-faced" as we are used to.
I'm thinking this might be a good look for season 7 but if he keeps that AND dresses like this, he'll have more than the prostitutes propositioning him... LOL. His geographical profiling will be for arranging his many dates - hah!
With all this on top of the earthquake cake, tell us exactly how the earth would move for you!
Oh, and maybe when you read this tomorrow (it's 12:40 AM there now)
it will be another business week that we can look forward to TG signing his contract AND PB announcing her return....with no new epis to look forward to, that's the kind of news we'll be meeting here on the blog for...sigh...
I love this post's picture. The whole gang together:( Sigh... I hope everyone comes back (including Prentiss). Super excited about JJ!
"Only Hotch Will Do" boy ain't that the truth!! If there is no Hotch, not only will there be no CM, but also no CBS for me!
I also think TG deserves whatever he's asking for. The man is a standup guy. Seriously, CBS! Stop waffling on TG's contract. This is getting ridiculous. CM is a proven, stable, winning show. You need to stop taking it for granted and start really taking care of the cast that made it such a success. Re-sign TG please!
I have a feeling my time shall remain in 'rerun land' when it comes to this show. I have had enough of the 'creative decision' crap they threw at us with regard to AJ and Paget's situation. There is more drama behind the scenes than any unsub could create for heaven sake. Now Thomas is not signed?!Creative decisions? Doesn't that mean plain hard cash? This from a network that hung onto Charlie Sheen for too many years and is now going to pay Ahston Kutcher as his sub?They also threw money at a CM spinoff no one wanted. I bet Forest Whitaker and Janeane whoever-she is-do-not-care did not come cheap!
Then we get a cheaper version of JJ that fans never warmed up to or wanted either.
Viewers usually form an impression of a character from the get go. Either you like them or not. A lot seemed to like Andi Swan right away. If no one likes you(Seaver) after a dozen or so episodes, then I am sorry, but it ain't happening folks.I do not want her to become stronger with each episode. I never wanted her there in the first place.I guess I can join the club on that one. What is up with JJ coming back the the job and place she was basically shoved out of? Her scene with Rossi in the finale makes no sense at all. And must we have had the legs closeup, come on CBS!Spoiler photos were out before this even aired, we knew it was JJ.Why all the big buildups to stories and the 'big secrets'(hello,Reid's headaches?) that went nowhere? Who the heck is writing this season, they dropped things faster than a hot potato. Biggest issue with me is the gradual vanishing of Reid/MGG.That is just not done or tolerated in my book. It is a waste of his amazing talents.I would not blame Matthew if he wanted out next season, though it would break my heart completely. The coffee cups and the jet seem to get more airtime than he does lately. Some have suggested he be listed as guest star. How sad and pathetic is that, that someone who has been there for so long is getting less lines than the guest cops and the newbie?
A lot of things just are not making sense, ON and OFF camera,and frankly, I think CBS has touched the last nerve of a lot of fans/viewers who are sick of it.
All the viewers want is the team of seven back. Is that to difficult to manage?Fix what should have never been screwed with in the first place.
CBS needs to 'grow some' and get this fixed.NOW.
Either that or watch this once great show sink faster than the Titanic. If not, I think a lot of you will be joining me for the reuns.At least there we can remember the good old days.I for one cannot see myself purchasing this past season on dvd. I have plain old had enough of the soap antics to be honest.I can tune into the actual soaps themselves for the drama if I wanted. I am really tired of it on my favorite show, which is thisclose to becoming 'former favorite'.
We seem to have gone on to wider issues than just the finale, so here goes for my ten cents.
I too hope the producers/ writers don't confuse the meaning of the word " family" when it comes to CM.
Some people have written very eloquently about this and while I can't match their literary skills I want to put my opinion out there.
For me the family is the team. There are the parents, Hotch and Rossi with the younger ones as the kids. They care about each other, have each others' backs, get on each others' nerves and sometimes laugh and cry together, all the while doing their job which is profiling really nasty people and catching them. And we are a part of that family for the hour each week.
I like to see little snippets of Hotch's life with Jack, but please don't overdo it. Hotch's humanity is much better displayed in his interactions with the team, either supporting them or dressing them down, dealing with victims' families or fighting with Strauss. Even making a mistake now and then. Reading previous posts people seem to be worried that we're going to get too much of JJ's family life, please "NO".
While I loved JJ and hated to see her go last season I have not been a huge supporter of the idea of her coming back, I have been fearing an effort to keep the fans happy which will not improve the writing, just make for more manipulative scenes like we had in S6, just with different characters.
On the issue of staying away from manipulative scenes/story lines please do not give us a inter-team romance. Garcia and Kevin work for me because he was not part of the team, he was always on the periphery.
On another note:
I feel for Rachel Nichols, she was brought on to portray an ill-conceived and badly written character who was foisted on the writers and the viewers at a time when emotions were running high. I hope she has the thick skin that the profession calls for and goes on to success in something else.
I recently indulged in a half hour CM youtube session where I flitted from one clip to the next. One of these was a compilation of scenes from "Faceless, nameless" where Hotch was being stabbed by the Reaper and then was in hospital. TG's acting... words can't describe how bloody fabulous it is!!
Combined with the random other stuff I watched it just made me realise how much the show has changed over the past season and a bit, and not for the better.
Let's hope for a return to the good old days in season 7, including:
* Hotch. Lots of Hotch! Nuff said.
* Reid's return to the genius of earlier seasons (not that I'm saying he's not still a genius) and a resolution of the headache storyline.
* Prentiss returns...
* ...along with Sergio (!!).
* More background on Rossi, professionally & personally.
* JJ is still her usual compassionate self, rather than some power-crazed ruthless type. The power dressing in the finale didn't suit her (even though she's certainly got the figure to carry it off).
* Seaver = dilemma. Not keen on such an unfeasable character and I admit I wouldn't be sad to see her transferred to another unit/field office out in the "boonies" - but I feel sooooo tight on RN for saying that!
* Garcia - Goes back to doing the technical stuff, rather than presenting cases (even in JJ's absence Hotch should have been doing that).
* Morgan - Just glad SM's signed on the dotted line for now.
Not too much to ask - is it?!
@ Gubegirl:
SM in army gear? Too nice...
The earthquake cake went down a treat at work, I'm going to add chocolate chips to the coconut & pecans next time. Mmmmmm!
Sorry Teresa H., to be digressing so...not much left to say sev. days later about the last epi - we're all bummed it's over for awhile but still are compelled to talk about the cast, etc. I agree with you totally about the "family" feel of and to the show. Prob'ly one of the best things about it for me.
B. Limey: Did I neglect to mention that SM is bare-chested in the fatigues? a-a-a-h-h...(she closes eyes, and pats heart....:) GNC stands for General Nutrition Center, BTW, my Canadian friend inquired first thing this AM. should know better than to assume everyone, esp in foreign countries(!) would know this, huh? Wish I could send you a copy....
Rachel Nichols is only good if she acts a villain/evil character. She needs to scram so that we can get our authentic CM back (with Paget).
Teresa H, I agree with you about Hotch and the team. It's through the undercurrents that his character is revealed, layer by layer. I love the subtlety of how being a leader 'sucks' (to borrow from Prentiss' emotive vocabulary - yay '52 Pick-up') - we've seen it in 'Penelope' and in 'Demonology', for example. Now if we could only get a Morgan/Hotch scene; been a long time. I don't mean occupying the screen at the same time, but a really solid few minutes of interaction. Recalling the plane scene in 'scared to death' and smiling...a LOT.
I love Rachel Nichols, new fan of CM because of her.
She is good in everything.
It looks like TG's lack of contract may head into another month or so with hopefully a good resolution, but what about Paget. I haven't heard anything about her and I am anxious to know if she will return to the show. I can't imagine TG, SM, AJ, JM, KV, and MGG being there and no PB. She just has to come back and complete the team that was destroyed by the network. I hope for the networks and CM's sake that they are working on getting the team back together. By now, I think it is obvious that all of the cast changes they made have not worked and they need to go back to the original cast drawing board to make it right including the writers.
If contract negotiations go into next month for Thomas I don't think its a bad thing. The guy who plays Tony on NCIS did not sign until June a couple of years ago. But cbs needs to get it in their heads to get Thomas signed and Rachel booted because she is terrible.
I just want the team back that CBS tore apart. I hope things are going on behind the scenes to make that happen.
Paget, please, please, please, please, please come back!
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