Criminal Minds spoiler thread for "Hanley Waters" starring Joe Mantegna, Thomas Gibson, Shemar Moore, Matthew Gray Gubler, Kirsten Vangsness and Rachel Nichol.
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- CRIMINAL MINDS: JOE MANTEGNA'S STAR
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- KIRSTEN VANGSNESS SHARES EXCITING NEWS!
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«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 316 of 316Usually I post right after I watch the episode while its still fresh in my mind but I was puzzled with this episode. I should have LOVED it because it included everything I like but i felt it was ok. Kudos to the writers for the parallel relating to grief of the unsub and the cast. With the great writing as a whole I can overlook the few over the top stretches/leaps. After watching it a second time I figured out why it was just good and not great to me. Usually the cast draws me into the episode...I become part of it while watching. I cry at the sad parts, jump when there is a scary part etc...what has happened with me is that as soon as I am drawn in, the Seaver character pushes me out again. If she says something very smart I question why would she know this above the elite team, or if she is giving the profile I question why would they include her as she is suppose to be just learning. I laugh at some of the stupid things she says when it wasnt meant to be funny. So when I should have had tears with the Hotch/team interviews I didnt because I was not emotionally invested in the episode. I dont think time will or growth of the character will help me overcome the absurdity of the character. I also know that it seems like a broken record to some to read about the character with every episode but if I am being honest it wouldnt be a true review from me not to include how I feel. It certainly didnt take me this long to embrace the other new characters when they entered the show. Oh well there is always next week.
Blimey Limey, I wonder if Reid's secret mightn't be simply his outbreak of fear about schizophrenia -- he kept that under his hat a long time -- as opposed to schizophrenia itself. So far he's shown no symptoms that couldn't be put down to classical migraine (with aura). Though you think he'd know that, being Reid n'all.
His mental state is interesting at present though, to say the least. It was between poignant and terrible that he looked back to Gideon and his dad in his therapy session -- his father figures don't exactly give the groundwork for a steady or well put together personality.
UK viewer
@ UK viewer (hi & hope you're also enjoying the strangely clement weather this weekend!).
You've said that far better than I managed. If Reid did actually become schizophrenic there's no way he'd be able to do his job, and despite what he said about wondering if the job was worth it (when talking to Hotch) the BAU seems to mean everything to him.
Perhaps the rational part of his mind thinks it's probably migraines causing the headaches, although I still wonder if they're stress-related. However, at present he seems on a real downer, as if the loss of Prentiss is reminding him of his father and Gideon leaving. Reid confided in Prentiss ahead of anyone else on the team, I think this illustrates that they had a very close (platonic) relationship not always shown on screen.
Like you said about his fear of the consequences of becoming schizophrenic - that must be a horrific thing to live with. Add to the mix the stress of a high pressure job, loss of people he held dear (including his mother to an extent, although obviously that isn't her fault) and his "genetic past" (if that's something other than schizophrenia, as Simon Mirren never clarified)... There's the potential for some heavy stuff coming up. Also, Reid's conscious about not coming across as the baby of the team or being weak, so it seems he's bottling it all up - not a good move.
Personally... I hope it's not schizophrenia, nor do I hope it leads to a full-scale breakdown. Although how I want to see it remedied? I'm not actually sure!
They make the show for the audience and if the majority of the audience doesn't like what they are doing, then no one will be tuning in.
Yes, sometimes creative risks need to be taken as those risks can sometimes make a turn for the better and enhance the show. Sometimes shows have no choice but to create situations for gaps such as CM had to when Mandy and Lola decided to leave the show. In this case, the opposite effect seems to be taking place and it is distracting from the show in that it is only highlighting the errors many people feel have already been committed with regard to this show. By that I mean losing the JJ and Prentiss characters (please note that I said some).
The Seaver character simply is not a strong enough character for the show, let alone as some sort of "replacement" for the JJ and/or Prentiss character. Whether the JJ or Prentiss character return to the show is something that no one knows, but if they don't, then they should create a different character for the show. Sdwally said it best on a different thread, change is not bad, change can be good, but change has to be done in a srtategic way, with purpose. This character was not done in that way. There are only 4 episodes left in the season and there is as much, if not more, resistance to the character than when she first appeared. This is not good for the show.
Also, I think it is very disrespectful to say something like "moaning" Uk viewer as I have the feeling that you'd be front and center to "moan" if people were calling for the Rossi character to be let go from the show, or am I wrong about that?
Sorry for my typo, should say "strategic." Also, wanted to make clear that I do understand the crowd pleasing argument that was made, I do. To some extent that had to be addressed with the Rossi and Prentiss characters in replacing the Gideon and Elle characters. The difference with those characters that they were strong from the gate, well conceived, not poorly conceived like this character. A poorly conceived character is never good for the overall health of a show. I would love to see the JJ and Prentiss characters return, but if they don't, then I'd be open to a new character as I was open to this character. Yet, I was quickly turned off by the ridiculousness of this character at the BAU and that is something that has increased for me, and I suspect others, over time.
New characters don't scare me or turn me off, bad ones do.
Marleny, I'm sorry for saying 'moaning' -- don't know what else to call it. You're right. I'd regret it if the show decided to drop Rossi and I'd come on here for a good cry but then I'd stop watching the show, silently. He's 'my guy' on the thing and that's that. It's what I did last season when I didn't like what I was seeing (lord, another unpopular view but still...). I guess I just don't have the mental stamina to keep on half-in/half-out of a thing.
NB moaning is the Liverpool verb for 'having a good chat', by the way.
Blimey Limey, the clement weather is driving me nuts. It's Easter. Can't we have some rain!? It's going to be interesting with Reid. Like you I hope it's not schizophrenia. Hard to see how he could continue in the BAU except on very special terms, on medication, constantly under review and so on.
UK viewer
Marleny, thanks for coming back with your second post. The distracting effect you talk about seems really important. I'm thinking here of Raven's post above where she says Seaver stopped her from enjoying an episode that she 'should have LOVED". But really Seaver was hardly in this episode. She was doing the brain-storming group-think stuff. They all where. 70% of everything everyone speculated was wrong. They were casting about for direction (like good bird dogs) and she was part of that. It's a shame that this hardly-there character could have hurt the show so badly for a watcher.
But this is where I wonder if that's Seaver herself or a developed antagonism towards her.
I feel that the feeling of resistance to the character is a bigger obstacle than the (perceived) badness of her... If that makes sense??? If Raven (sorry to keep using your name in vain Raven!) could have ignored the woman and relaxed with the storyline, the whole episode would have been much more rewarding, from 'good' to 'great'. This really was one of the better episodes of this season, IMO. Loved the case of the week and pretty much all of the guest actors.
I do understand that there's a reluctance here and everyone is protecting their idea of how FANTASTIC Criminal Minds can be. But really we could pick any of the characters, pretty well, and consider how feasible they are. I'm not going to do that cos it's just a destructive thing to do but it's possible to pick holes in all the well-loved characters! Flaws in a book or a programme don't especially bother me, as long as they're not central (i.e. loss of The Rossi, haha). But even if they wanted to do that, I'd still back them to make that choice. Then I'd leave with my bottom lip stuck out big enough to trip over.
;o)
UK viewer
Okay, get the difference in the use of the word in your neck of the woods Uk viewer. I also respect the fact that you would just silently stop watching the show, but for others, it is important that they speak out with regard to the show because they do still love the show but maybe are concerned about the direction/decisions being made. It is important that views be expressed no matter whether they be one time or 10 million times or whether anything comes out of it. For instance, the fact that Hotch has beccome a side line player is something that people have expressed here over and over. Finally, thankfully, this past episode Hotch was pushed to the front as a Unit Chief should be. Is that the result of what was said here? I don't know, but the point is if nothing were repeatedly said about it the network and CM would just continue regarding that character to be insignificant. Now, I am sure that they are bombarded with all sorts of requests from viewers, and your right, at some point they have to just tune those requests out and proceed with the show as planned. To me, the isuues with this character aren't insignificant issues/comments that the network and producers typically sift by. It is similiar to what has happened on other shows where the decision, I suppose because of the sheer volume of negative reactions by viewers/fans, led to the action of eliminating that character from the show. For at the end of the day, it is about retaining and gaining viewers, not possibly losing or turning off viewers. I'm not saying that either of those two things have happened in this case, only that is something that networks typically guard heavily against. Again, this is my take from what I have seen done with similiar situations on other shows and my opinion with regard to that character. I have to repeatedly point that out because unfortunately it seems that some can't distinguish between a statement of opinion and then the craziness starts up all over again.
P.S. I think Rossi is a wonderful character and would not want to see him go. Just wanted to make that clear.
Blimey Limey: I envy gubegirl her palm trees too and even your soggy lawn. My lawn's still covered by two feet of snow. I'm not saying you shouldn't get off that plane in Canada sometime. May I suggest summer.
I agree with your assessment of Reid's situation. The mind is a powerful thing and his fear could have gotten him into such a state mentally that it's manifesting physically.
UK Viewer, I don't think you have anything to worry about regarding CBS complying to the majority fans' wishes about wanting Seaver gone. They certainly don't and won't resort to "crowd-pleasing" because if they would have cared about what we wanted, the character of Seaver wouldn't even be there in the first place. AJ and Paget's contracts would have been picked up for season7, with regular status and all. They would never have been let go. There were a lot of campaigns, petitions, etc., to save AJ and Paget. But all our attempts were in vain. I would love if they get rid of Seaver, I can't stand her. And nothing would make me happier than having AJ and Paget return. But I'm prepared for the worst, i.e., them bringing Seaver back for season7.
I am a committed CM fan, but that doesn't mean I should just sit back and absorb all the senseless dross they throw my way.
I get you. Thank you so much for your politeness and friendliness Marleny, and I understand the argument you're making. I bet the show-makers will too. They want to keep the ratings high. Perhaps instead of moaning I should say 'making a protest'. I'm happy for them to use these forums to get a sounding eg the way that Hotch was brought forward more this episode. But it goes against the grain to think that an audience could actually get someone removed from a cast. I dunno. I'm politically socialist but I like creative autonomy in the arts.
Our posts have crossed and your latest one has said much of what I was going to ask you about, so I'll sign off now. Except to say, yeah, Rossi is wonderful.
UK viewer
I can't speak for Raven, will let Raven speak for him or herself. But for me personally, as I think Raven pointed out, the absurdity of the character as a whole is distracting to me whether the character says one word or many words. Now, I am EXTREMELY grateful when this character barely appears on the screen, but again, how is that a good thing. Not every character will be everyones favorite. I'm sure there are people who hate one or possibly more of the longstanding characters. That is to be expected to some extent in an ensemble cast, but the characters function and purpose on the show are distinct from whether they are loved by one or more people. For example, the Jordan Todd character. I did not like that character and was relieved when she left, BUT, I never saw her entrance onto the show, the team, as an absurdity. She had 7 years in counter terrorism and when she sat with JJ, when JJ was training her, you could see that she had some clue as to what was going on. Eventually, she figured out that the BAU was not the place for her to be because of the cases, I think, with the children. It seemed to negatively affect her and cause her to rethink her being there. Of course, Jordan was meant to be an interiem person while JJ was out on maternity leave. My point though is that although I was not crazy about her I never once questioned the reasonability of her being there.
Another example, I never really cared for the Gideon character. Gideon, in my opinion, had a weird, self- absorbed vibe that at times put me off. But that it was reasonable for him to be there was never in doubt for me. Even though he put me off at times, I kept that in mind, the fact that it was more than reasonable for him to be there. I cannot do the same with Seaver because her character and place on the team make no sense to me whatsoever and it just tears it down to being ridiculous for me. If Seaver were like Gideon, Todd, Elle or Prentiss (not mentioning JJ because she wasn't a profiler), I think that would have been better than how she was introduced and how she is there now. Moreover, the delivery is flat, wooden, and I see no connection with the team; something that for me is equally as distracting and off putting.
Again, my take on the situation, the character, and the delivery.
Marleny said:
"They make the show for the audience and if the majority of the audience doesn't like what they are doing, then no one will be tuning in."
But that's the whole point, isn't it? People aren't tuning out. In fact, judging by the ratings this week, more are tuning in! There's just no indication that there has been a negative impact on ratings, quite the opposite really.
I don't think the producers will axe the Seaver character so quickly (at least I hope not). But I have seen some indications that they're listening. First there was Morgan's line about Prentiss wanting us to accept Seaver.
Also, in this week's episode I had a theory that they filmed a therapy session with Seaver that was cut at the last minute. First of all, RN was the one who leaked the whole therapy business in the first place. Secondly, if she didn't originally have a session, you'd think they would have inserted a quick explanation as to why not. Finally, the episode seemed to end a minute or two early. It's just a hunch- I know those things don't necessarily mean I'm right.
gubegirl: The only idea I came up with was PASS (probationary agent super seaver), since many of us would simply like to give her a pass and concentrate on the rest of the characters.
Pat, that is it!!! PASS :)
Hopefully, PASS will move away from the BAU and onto a field office for season 7.
Yes heyya, if past history serves correct, then PASS will be there for season 7. Maybe the network and CM has learned from their past mistakes and this time will not repeat them, but the keyword is "learned."
AJ and Paget were sacrificed on the altar of the spin-off, and well, I think it is plain to see how well that decision went over. The ratings for the spin-off are crap and the consensus is that it only has half a chance of being picked up, if that.
PS loved the cop this week debating whether to talk or shoot.
cotw: She's got hostages
Rossi; She's probably not aware of them
cotw: But I am
Blunt and right. Nicely played role, methought.
UK viewer
I agree all the actors has signed for a season 7. Except Moore and Gibson who are right now on the way to renewing their contracts.
Those who say Nichols has only been signed on for season 6 is wrong she has signed on as a regular like the rest if it was only season 6 she would still be a guest star.
Seaver is still new she will be a good character on the show when she has fitted in. And she is beginning to get more over to her site and why not. She is still in development i can't see why some here don't see that and give the new girl a break
Atticus, I'm not saying that people have tuned out, the ratings have stayed fairly consistent for the show (they haven't gone up, but they have stayed consistent). Nor for that matter did the ratings go down for the shows where the characters were cut after one season. It is not all about ratings, it is about the overall health of the show and if there is something like a character that is hindering that, then, that is something that should be looked at and in some instances removed.
Also, if the Seaver character did have a therapy session and it was cut because of possible viewer reaction, again, how is that good. That, to me, is an indication of what is not working with a character to the point where scenes/scripts have to be changed so as not to arouse additional viewer disdain.
The line you mentioned from Morgan went over extremely badly. Not only that, if you need a perceived "dead" character to prop up a new one, my goodness, that is just poor. Characters should be able to stand on their own merit.
Anonymous, that is not correct. The length of contracts are set up by the network. Sometimes it is just one season, sometimes more, and I would be shocked if there were not out clauses for them if required. We don't have any information to say one way or another. Series regulars on other shows have been cut after one season for different reasons. I don't know what the outcome will be here but that is something that will come to pass one way or another.
The development line, Oy, that has been addressed by Rhea, see her comment which I agree with. No need to rehash what has already been addressed.
Pat, I think PASS is a good acronym too.
Atticus they didn't cut anything Nichols always said the others was going to be in therapy not her.
And it does make sense she was not there because she does not know Emily aswell.
Seaver should stay.
It will be interesting to see what happens with the spin-off moving forward. I have never seen it and never will.
Most places are giving it about a half and half chance of coming back. It seems like shows like "The Good Wife" may have something to do with whether the spin-off returns or not. It seems like it will be one or another as they have pinned them against one another.
Mid- May is usually when they announce renewals and cancelations, so we'll see then what gives with the spin-off and other shows on all of the networks. CM hasn't officially been renewed, but there is no doubt that it will be.
Can we go back to talking about the episode or music for a possible CM soundtrack? It was so much nicer when we were discussing that instead of PASS (thanks Pat, that is a good and clever acronym).
How about "Bad" from U2? It is a wonderful song with a lot of different dimensions to it.
"The Scientist" by Coldplay. I love that song and would love for it to be played on the show and/or appear on any possible soundtrack. Hmm, it would probably cost them a pretty penny to get on the show or a soundtrack.
UK viewer:
But this is where I wonder if that's Seaver herself or a developed antagonism towards her.
First let me say thanks for being respectful and I dont mind at all you replying to my post. And to answer you its a character. Not a real person so too me it one in the same. The character and everything about that character plays into my feelings. If you are questioning whether i dislike the character because of the firing of 2 other characters I would have to be honest and say no. As much as I loved Emily and liked JJ its has nothing to do with Seaver. Seaver has taken my whole perception, after 6 yrs of watching, of the show from being this elite, one of a kind, best of the best, not anyone can just do it unit and reduced it to any simple cadet of the streets can come right in and do the job. The character and the writers have dumbed down the show. If they would have made her actually act, talk, and think like an intern I may possibly overlook her being there but the writers are all over the place making the character a bonafied profiler at some moments even giving part of the profiler and then other times reduce her back down to an intern.
So its not a matter of relaxing and ignoring the character for me its the entire insertion of the character into my perceived elitness of the BAU. I certainly can see where others can ignore her, like her or are indifferent as they may have a different perception of the show than I do.
I think we should let Seaver develop the way the writers want. Give the character the time it needs.
Yes lets discuss music before this turns ugly again
What about the AC/DC music i think it was in season 4 with the clerk at a motel who killed people on the road.It really suited that episode
I still dont understand the logic in Seaver becuase her character does strange mental backflips and cant keep it professional in multiple ways, but I have stated my opinions before and will stand by them.I hope RN doesnt come back and just goes into movies becuase she is a better actress in movies than tv shows.
Gubegirl, maybe we can vacation in BC at some point lol
Also, anyone who hasnt checked out my suggestion for a song, 30 seconds to Mars' Edge of the Earth, check it becuase it is PERFECT for Hotch!
How much time is the Seaver character going to need? She's been on long enough for me. I would rather they get get JJ back instead, or give the extra screentime to the original cast.
I also love Coldplay's Scientist.
I would die of joy if they included "Running up that Hill" by Kate Bush. That song is fierce!!!
How about Running up that hill with Within Temptations version
Happy Sunday, y'all!
1.) Love PASS! Good job, Pat, from now on, let's use it! Hopefully, it will not need to be discussed much to catch on, and will incite less hostility. 2.) Sorry, but altho' I am trying very hard for PASS'presence not to bother me, anything out of her mouth still sounds off to me. It has a cocky sound when she should be sounding inquisitive; she comes across smug when she should appear more in the learning stages. She can certainly brainstorm with the team, but no way should she be part of the presentation in the field. That feels so wrong to me.
OK. Enuf. 3.) I think that Reid's stress is what will cause his break-down (let's hope we do get to see SOMETHING after all the carrots they've dangled). I do believe he is an Aspie, but except for the personality traits, i.e., social awkwardness, lack of confidence, feeling different and alone, etc. I don't believe that's causing his symptoms. Fear of becoming schizoid: def a concern TO HIM & poss of intensifying the headaches (H.A.'s), tho' prob'ly not likely to be the source, as has been discussed already... his age, etc.
I think being thru so much: his mom's illness, estrangement from his dad, former drug addiction & on-going temptation, to the more recent losses of the only other important female figures in his life, JJ and Prentiss have caused the stress to grow. Now, we're watching & waiting for the final trigger to cause him to crack. Hotch&/or Rossi need to intervene and get him therapy.
Beginning to consider the poss. it will not a huge, just important & that the writers will pick up all that has been about Reid before, acknowledge his problem and deal with it. He may go off for some therapy, talk about it briefly to any team members who may be in the loop, and we may not hear much else about it but still feel abit of resolution. If he doesn't need something heavy-duty in the way of meds, he can continue to work and may come out to be a more confident & calm Reid, more of the maturation that we have seen over the past 6 yrs & are noticing now when we see old early epis and are able to compare w/ new. Reid, sweetie, since Pat, Optika and Blimey Limey are not able to make it to the backyard music fest, I suggest you take me up on my offer and come to SD for some R & R:)
4.) Speaking of which: MUSIC: Ah, yes, that PLEASANT subject: I think we are talking 2 if not 3 different soundtracks here:
A. Music already used in prev epis that are especially memory-evoking.
B. Songs to be used in future epis that we just really like, be it new, old, intense or gentle.
C. Songs that we love that invoke thoughts or feelings about the specific characters, sev of which have been mentioned on this same thread, re: Reid, Rossi, Hotch, Morgan and Emily. Don't recall any about Garcia but will go back and ck. Those of you participating, I think we may need to narrow it down to TWO, one past, one future, but maybe not earmark certain songs for specific characters but just throw them in for consideration due to our personal feeling/liking for the music? What do you think?
Whew! My coffee is now gone and the laundry is calling to me. TTFN!
For Garcia, David Bowie of course, who may be God.
I can't think who to give her otherwise (the non-show ideal Garcia track). She's so individual I'd be scared to pick the wrong thing. Though David Bowie was rather conventional for her (these days). Perhaps she's so off the scale in everything else that music is her comfort zone, in which case, I'd like to see her relaxing to Ella Fitzgerald, a woman whose voice can do no wrong. 'Squeeze Me' perhaps (would she dare play that with Morgan around?) because Garcia is built for squeezing. (If a little risky in some of the low cut frocks.)
It's poss I'm just being led off in this direction by the film star episode this season, whatever that was called. The era I mean.
UK viewer
Atticus said...
Marleny said:
"They make the show for the audience and if the majority of the audience doesn't like what they are doing, then no one will be tuning in."
But that's the whole point, isn't it? People aren't tuning out. In fact, judging by the ratings this week, more are tuning in! There's just no indication that there has been a negative impact on ratings, quite the opposite really.
Actually, no. There are still 5 major reasons why people still tune in, that overcome the Seaver character. In fact, the episode after Prentiss' exit was pretty much guaranteed to be a higher rated episode since people want to see the reaction of the other characters to such a "death". Lost is an excellent example of this.
Lost is also an excellent example that steady ratings = audience hated characters get to stay. Look up the Nikki/Paolo debacle in Season 3.
The fact is, if you have a negative lightning rod character such as Seaver, what you've done is make it one step easier for your audience to start tuning out. Yeah, people will watch for awhile, but since the character doesn't draw them, eventually they'll get bored and move on to another show.
It's not an immediate reaction, it's just the start of the erosion - a weakness the show *didn't* have before said character came on board. The crack that just formed, where the only route left is for it to just get bigger.
Anonymous said...
Those who say Nichols has only been signed on for season 6 is wrong she has signed on as a regular like the rest if it was only season 6 she would still be a guest star.
Incorrect. That's not the way things work. Rachel would not necessarily still be guest star if she was only hired for the remainder of Season 6. It's in the show's best interest to sign Rachel to a contract, no matter how long or short the term, since it ties her down to the show. Maintaining "guest star" status allows her to leave whenever she wants. Rachel most likely would not have gotten a financial bump from being signed to Regular, since if they kept her at Guest, she'd presumably still act in the same amount of episodes. Signing on as Regular only really promoted Rachel to the opening credits (which CM would want, BTW, after the loss of the two most prominent females on the show - they'd still want more representation than just Kristin) and ensured that *if* there was an episode that Seaver wasn't written in, Rachel would still get paid. But like I said, that's not likely to happen.
Also, once again I will pull out Lost as an example that just because you have a contract, doesn't mean you can't be fired before your contract is up. Talk to Ian Somerhalder and Dominic Monaghan for two - plus the actors for Nikki and Paolo for another two. Also, in non-Lost examples, Ashley Simpson Wentz, Elisabeth Röhm, Charlie Sheen, Isaiah Washington - the list goes on and on.
Agreed with this
But i got no problem with Seaver and many others are starting to follow.
What really is missing from this show is the way they profile and more profiling. Like in season 1-3 they had those cool graphics while profiling.
Can you guys remember what i mean its hard to explain it in detail lol
"The fact is, if you have a negative lightning rod character such as Seaver, what you've done is make it one step easier for your audience to start tuning out. Yeah, people will watch for awhile, but since the character doesn't draw them, eventually they'll get bored and move on to another show.
It's not an immediate reaction, it's just the start of the erosion - a weakness the show *didn't* have before said character came on board. The crack that just formed, where the only route left is for it to just get bigger."
I agree with Blue Flower. I think the ratings are going to drop, but not for a while. I had mixed feelings with this week's ratings--I felt good because the show would get renewed, but also fearful that it would imply acceptance of PASS. I still feel that the ratings are going to decline soon. When, I don't know.
Visual representation of the profiling thought process-adds visuals to explanatory dialogue. I get it and I do miss it.
One solid Hotch episode after nearly an entire season of him being in the background or nonexistent is not enough. I hope there is much more Hotch in the remaining four episodes; and I would prefer the season finale be Hotch-focused.
I'd like to see Rossi; but I don't see myself waiting with baited breath over the summer to see how a Rossi episode turns out. For me, it would be similar to the season 5 finale and the season 6 premiere; which weren't that good and were probably the lowest rated season finale and premiere in CM's history.
As was proved by Hanley Waters, you can't lose with a well-written Hotch episode--Oh by the way, did I say that I'm partial to Hotch.
The more times I watch thsi epi (I can say that of few episodes in S6, tbh), the more poignant and heartbreaking it is to me. I have made a note of the fact that it is a VERY bad idea to watch it early on a Monday morning. It’s a blue blue Monday. I don’t know how Hotch got Strauss out of the way for those sessions and what he did to convince her, but I fear he’ll 'draw' her when he has HIS session, because he will/should, right? Hmmmm, much to ponder.
sdwally - partial? hah, i wouldn't have noticed ;-) I, too, am 'slightly' partial to him.
And also, yes, more profiling, PLEASE. That must be the hardest parts to write, though; so that's where we're sorely missing the best writers. While the team lept to the conclusion that the unsub must have lost a child, they took an unnaturally long time to look for accidents involving children, huh?
I think 'Hanley Waters' was a great title - encapsulated the randomness and senselessness of so much that life throws our way. Heartbreaking. Also ties in with who gets the attention and who is accountable.
I finally got down to watching this episode... the team sessions with Hotch were brief but spot on for each character and I think the whole procession both with the team and Shelly were really a reflection of Hotch own grief, how he feels and how he deals with it. I've wondered why there's no 'aftermath' for Hotch and I think I've my answer now.
I like Rossi and Hotch pairing. They always have interesting things to say between them, like the wives' joke, LOL! and they know each other very well.
And it looks to me like Hotch's taking over Prentiss' place, at least for now. They're short of 1 mind so his input is needed more than ever now. Seaver's way down at the bottom of the ladder no matter what TPTB tried to have me believe.
I'm sorry, since she's the VIP of CM now, being the one and only female profiler, there's no way to talk about CM now without mentioning her. It's just too bad there's so much negativity surrounding her character. I'll confess I wrote down every line from her in this episode just to see if I'm doing her injustice for thinking she serves no purpose in this show other than an eye-candy.... well, it's worse than I thought. NONE of those lines were meant to help in anyway. They're either a statement to state the obvious or a question someone has to explain to her! In short, those lines were nothing more than to give her something to say and I think she's more lines than Rossi!
Personally I don't care if she's a cadet or what, a character will have my support if I feel he/she makes sense and likable. So far I can't say that for Seaver, but that's just me of course.... BTW, what's it with her and 'leg up', is that her trademark 'sexy-pose' or what?
Quote: "That's the creative process. It weakens when you let crowd-pleasing be your only guide."
Isn't 'crowd-pleasing' ensure fans/viewers tuning in? This is entertainment where no viewers means no show and viewers only watch what please them! JMO.
I'm thinking AJ/JJ will come back as a Profiler. She misses the team, is dissatisfied with her current job, and takes the test just as Hotch suggested in S5. She'd be senior and experienced enough to fill the gap on the team, since Prentiss/ Paget may or may not return. A bonus if P/P also returns, but can't wish her bad luck with her pilot.
"Anonymous said...
I'm thinking AJ/JJ will come back as a Profiler. She misses the team, is dissatisfied with her current job, and takes the test just as Hotch suggested in S5. She'd be senior and experienced enough to fill the gap on the team, since Prentiss/ Paget may or may not return. A bonus if P/P also returns, but can't wish her bad luck with her pilot."
I agree that the producers can bring JJ back as a qualified profiler. She can reappear having already taken the necessary classes off screen so that the audience doesn't have to go thru the redundant scripting of her going thru the classes and passing exams, which was done already with the Seaver character who has no skills.
I'm still holding out hope that Paget will also return; her pilot aside, she belongs on CM. If she chooses not to return, CM should still bring on a qualified profiler who is has a totally different look from JJ.
Seaver has more skills as a profiler then JJ. JJ never once learned profiling
Anonymous, are you watching CM??? Seaver has absolutely zero qualifications to be a profiler, let alone land a spot on an elite and specialized team liek the BAU.
JJ is not an official profiler, yes, that is correct, but her years serving on the team, at the FBI, as well as potentially being scripted as having taken the necessary courses to become a profiler would place her leaps and bounds over Seaver who barely graduated from the Academy and is a probationary agent for crying out loud. Seaver has ZERO, let me repeat that again ZERO experience or qualifications to be on the team. Anonymous, you can like the Seaver character, okay, but to try and make that argument is just ridiculous.
I think the "anonymous' poster(s), whoever or whomever they might be, just like to stir things up with phrases like 'Seaver is a better profiler than JJ ever", or "Seaver has potential, just give her time"...
This person(s) knows that we, the collective devoted CM fans, do not like, want or need Seaver on this show. It dumbs-down the other characters to have to wait for another castmate to 'grow up' and provide something useful to the rest of the cast.
In an effort to NOT open up this discussion for the millionth time - Seaver needs to go! She has nothing to offer and adds absolutely nothing to the show.
Definitely do not wish Paget failure on her having her pilot being picked up, but I too hope that she returns to CM not only because her character is a sure fire fit and she is greatly missed, but because NBC is a struggling network and the chances of a hit on that network are not that hot. I'm not saying that her pilot or any other show on NBC couldn't potentially become a hit, but the truth is that network is in dire straits and so as an actor I think that is something to be considered prior to taking a deal with them. This is not in any way saying that actors, including Paget, shouldn't sign with that network, just if they do that is something to bear in mind.
I have no doubt that whatever Paget decides to do will be something that fits for her in this time in her life, and if her pilot does get picked up by NBC and she signs on to it, I wish her nothing but success and will not only watch, but will be rooting that her show become the success that NBC needs.
In a sense, CBS should take heed from the mistakes made over the years by NBC. There once was a time when NBC reigned supreme. I'm sure had anyone told NBC then that now it would be in the position that it is now, I am sure that they would have laughed hysterically. But here they are today, and part of the reason that they are where they are at is because of foolish programming choices, which included getting spin-off happy. CBS had better take care of the hits that it has now like CM by properly casting the show, instead of eliminating characters that it made no sense to eliminate in the first place. Getting writers that know how to write for a show whose main emphasis is profiling is a must (you know, all of the writers that were fired at the end of season 4, yeah, they mattered) and valuing the talent that they have on the show that, with minimal support from the network, aided in making CM the success it is today.
I agree with sdwally that if Paget does not return to the show then a character should be brought on that is qualified to be a profiler, and please let's stop this stupidity and just get AJ/JJ back on the show.
Please ignore the anonymous posters who have nothing substantial to back up their ridiculous statements. Please, just pretend you don't see them, I know that it is hard, but they are just not worth our time or trouble.
We know the facts and so do the people who have the ability to do anything about this mess of a situation.
I said it before and I am with you, sdwally: JJ could easily be a profiler, even if her classes were taken prior to her return, etc. It goes without saying - the team would love her back in any capacity and no one would doubt her skills because she would do an exceptional job at whatever she does, because she is a quality person, not to mention an exceptional actress.
It would be an easy move to bring JJ back, should they choose to do so.
Anonymous 44
Nanci and Anonymous 44, I think that is the best thing to do. Nothing is gained from going over and over something that is so clear and obvious to see not only to the majority posters here and dang well near everywhere, but as Anonymous 44 said, to those who have the ability to do anything about the unfortunate mess that has been made with the show.
I just want to clear up that I am in no way pointing fingers at all the 'anonymous' posters. Just the one(s) who have nothing substantial to back up their claims of love and admiration for Rachel Nichols/Ashley Seaver except to come on this board and call the rest of us jealous or haters.
I agree with the Anonymous 44 - just ignore them. I'll try...but it's really hard! LOL!
And you, Raquel, I agree with you, too. You posted while I was still typing....
Honestly, I wish Paget the Best, and if she is done with this show and wants to try new things, so be it.
I do wish, though, that Emily would come back for at least one episode to wrap up her character of good.
But nothing like “let's find Doyle” again. Been there, done that.
I wish they would find and kill that SOB in the first 10 min, and that way she could come back and deal with the fact that the team thought she was dead. That would be golden.
And to keep being honest, I'm over the fact that Ashley Seaver is a cadet. Sorry, but I'm over it.
Don't care to complain about the character anymore and one character's discrepancy with canon won't be able to turn me down from the show.
I m getting used to her and my only complaint is the fact that I think she needs more spark. I'm watching Rachel Nichols on The Inside and she is good in it. More of that in CM.
But that serenity took me a while, so I understand if some people are still hanging on to that, or that some will never be able to let it go. Just because I change my mind, doesn't mean you all will.
Either way, my two cents.
Laura, two cents duly noted. Completely disagree, except for the wishing Paget luck and killing Doyle part, but appreciate the way in which you stated your opinion.
I hope that Paget comes back to CM, but if not, will support her at NBC or wherever she lands.
I'm with sdwally in that if Paget doesn't return, they need to create a role for a qualified and experienced profiler. Hotch put it out there, so I hope to God it is not something that is dropped. Am also with Gloria in that AJ/JJ needs to return to the show whether that be as the Media Liaison or as a profiler.
Is Strauss going to be in this week's episode?
gubegirl: just watching a rerun of What Fresh Hell and I don't know if When the Music's Not Forgotten by Deadman has been mentioned. It should be included.
I've been reading some of the posts and I agree: it is super sad without PB and AJ on the show. However:
(this part is really important) we shouldn't hate on Seaver. I mentioned this in another comment on another page. I'm not saying everyone does this and please don't hate me for saying this! Seriously, not everyone does it! But I was just thinking about how much it must suck to get hated on for something that isn't your fault. It isn't Rachel Nichol's fault that PB or AJ were taken off of Criminal Minds. People may not necessarily like her character, but we shouldn't be so quick to dislike her because of PB and AJ being gone. That's really important.
On a different note- Optika, I agree with your comment: 'Sometimes I feel that the quality of the writing was better in the first couple of seasons, especially with the consistency and the unsubs. There was more depth. Now its like the writers are trying to be more CSI like, more hip or something.
They should stop.'
In previous seasons, the unsub would have a seriously psychotic problem and they would be harder for the team and viewers to profile. There was one episode with Jason Alexander as the unsub and it was a really cool episode. I remember Reid using the Fibonacci sequence to figure out the location of the kids Jason Alexander's character was holding hostage. It was really interesting and the profile was really cool. This season, the episodes have sort of all been...dumbed down, so to speak. Hanley Waters for example, like many other episodes (not all in season 6, however) was just about someone suffering a tragedy and blaming others and have a psychotic break. I figured that out in the first 15 or so minutes!...
hmm....I love the show, I love the characters, but it's getting harder and harder to watch, however I will still support the actors and actresses of Criminal Minds because they deserve it, after all the hard work they put in!
Peace out cub scouts.
:)
Again with the hating business, OY! Look, for many, the Seaver character sucks, not because of AJ/JJ, PB/Prentiss, but because some feel that the character itself sucks and is a total joke for CM. Is that difficult to understand? Is it? Is it difficult to understand that some feel that this character is poorly- conceived and that not even the best actress in the world could pull of this crappy character.
I think it is important for people to actually take the time to read and analyze what people have said here for what seems like a million times already. It is really not that hard to understand. People don't like different characters for a whole slew of reasons. What is the big deal about that? What makes disliking a character on CM so different; happens on every show, CM is no different.
Kato,
With all due respect. I have not seen anyone on this blog post any sort of comment blaming Rachel Nichols for what happened to PB or AJ. That is not the reason why people dislike Seaver. The reasons for disliking Seaver have already been outlined numerous times and none have blamed RN for that decision. In fact, I have seen many posts that blame CBS/TPTB for making that decision, and people asking TPTB (NOT Nichols) to rectify their huge mistake and bring AJ and PB back. This would mean RN is out but that is the way the business goes. If one is ok with AJ and PB being out then one should also be ok with RN being out, should TPTB decide to listen to their fans and bring AJ and PB back.
It's ok CBS. Even people like Steven Spielberg create characters that are mistakes. Hello, Jar Jar Binks! If ever there was a character that was annoying and rejected by the fans, then it was Jar Jar Binks. Seaver is the Jar Jar Binks of Criminal Minds. Seaver Binks does not fit in with the rest of the team. Bring JJ and Prentiss back please.
Pat: I am still working on the CM soundtrack list but was hoping for some feedback from my post yesterday about 2 poss soundtracks: one for already used and memorable music and a second for future epis: music that we love personally: that we feel would well-represent CM and /or a CM character.
I suggested also that you fanatics go to CM music and google or Bing the epi song lists to refresh your "memories." It's quite complete and there are many that I had forgotten. You can also print it for future ref, as the anal person I am, did.
And tho' I really am trying to pass on PASS convo, I have to say I agree with Peggy: the best actress in the world could not make the Seaver character credible. It's the way she was written from the get-go: ILL-CONCEIVED is the most frequent and best way to put it. That's all on that subject.
Thanks for your work on the music, guys, I appreciate your input but need more about both and your feelings about whether we are talking TWO CDs: we have more NEW (not used yet) music mentioned than the old but we do agree on most of the old, but if you went back to the lists I refer to, you could help add to the list easily. Thanks.
Correction: It was George Lucas who created Jar-Jar Binks, not Steven Spielberg. But Jar-Jar and Seaver do have one thing in common--they are both scrappies, a character with an intense hatedom.
With the music, is this going to be something that we send to CBS, or is it something here for fun?
Betsy: There seems to be enough interest here in seeing a soundtrack which would include prev used music in CM epis S1-6. We need more input for this to give them (CBS?) extra to choose from:)
Many people here have made suggestions for FUTURE epis to contain music they find to be fitting for CM epis or characters. This has included new and old established artists and some have given actual titles for us to download and have a listen.
Heck, I dusted off my Kate Bush '85Hounds of Love CD when you mentioned "Running up that Hill"- that girl is AMAZING! and when Blimey Limey (I think!) sugg. Keane, I stuck "Hopes and Fears" in and, heck the entire CD could be used! Just go back and listen to "This is the last time " or "Bend and Break" (so lovely but painful-so CM) or the newer one BL mentioned, "Atlantic" for some examples. I must go dig thru the car to find Coldplay and have another listen to the Scientist that Marleny sugg: when I go to their concert, I take all their CDs and play their music all the way to the concert and back to get myself even more pumped up. As you can tell, I am a music freeq as much as I am a CM fanatic. Join in, please!
We have had fun talking about it but the more we listen/watch old, the more I think we would really love to have a soundtrack, much like they have done for Grey's etc. We do not know how feasible this might be, expense, etc. but we're going to submit a list of our favorites.
We then hope to sell enuf copies to rehire AJ, PB OR another experienced actress who makes a decent profiler.....nah, just kidding, altho' sometimes I'm beginning to think that might be what it takes:)
Connie its not the same thing with AJ/Paget leaving they were loved by everyone and got fired by the network and producers
With Seaver Nichols character the haters (yeah i said it) want her to be forced out. And that is just wrong can you imagine how Nichols feels about this.
I agree with Kato give this new girl a chance to proof herself i know she can and so can the writers with her from this great show
HI Kato,
I broadly agree with your post but with this one proviso. if we're comparing cases based on Fibonacci numbers to cases based on emotional trouble, I'll go with the dumbed down every time. Dumb is real and true. I love Masterpiece very much (for the interrogation more than for the complicated motivation/mindset of the white-hair guy) but as fascinatingly creepy as that unsub was, you would not meet a mind like that every day. A woman who can't bear the loss of her child on the other hand is horribly common. The hospitals are full of fresh cases tonight. They don't all crack of course but it's an understandable breaking point.
I would guess that Behavioural Analysis is just as useful with the ordinary emotionally sick people as with the super criminals. Perhaps more so. Ordinariness is a good place to get lost.
On the other hand, I think the writing did use to be sharper in the sense that it gave more time to the process of thought in the team, and all that good confusion. Now it's like clickety click: here's your answer. Some of the time it's like that, anyway. But this is my argument for more dumbness really. Let's see the team toiling for the truth and battling with each other over the right ways to go about it, getting caught up on wrong details etc.
UK viewer
I thought that was the ebst episode thsi season so far. Finally we see the team dealign with what happened in " 100" and "Lauren". Especially loved that it was a Hotch Centric episode. We need more of those!!!! TG's acting skills have been wasted thsi season so far.
Michael,
How do you think AJ and PB felt after working on the show for FIVE YEARS and then being let go for no good reason? At least with the Seaver character there are valid reasons for the character to go. So if you ask me who is more deserving of the spot, my vote as a fan goes to AJ who had the original spot for 5 years and carried it off beautifully instead of Nichols who is not as good an actor. And if you ask me who I feel more sorry for then I would answer AJ again because AJ has a son to provide for and Nichols doesn't. Those are my opinions. Not hating. Sorry if you can't accept it.
With all due respect Michael, you missed Connie's point by a mile, but yet, you've missed many points by a mile when it comes to this subject/character.
People are declaring that they have a preference over one or more characters over the Seaver character. If TPTB decided to eliminate the Seaver character from the show will that mean that RN is out of a job, yes, it will, but as Connie said that is the nature of the business. If, as you have repeatedly stated, RN is an accomplished an actress as you claim, then this will only have been but a blip on her resume, or do you not really feel that way as you continue to use words such as "haters" that, might I say, really hinders the ability for anyone, let alone anyone in a position of authority at the network, to take with any grain of seriousness. For not only is it a base thing to revert to saying in lieu of anything substantive, but it has a very juvenile sounding ring to it and after all this is CBS not Nickelodeon.
At the end of the day, the network and CM has to do what is best for the show as a whole. What they will decide to do is something we all can only guess and provide input on for their consideration.
Thank you Evelyn! My point exactly!
Michael,
Firstly: I do not "hate", as you say, the character or the actress. The character has really done nothing to make me dislike her, other than pretty much tell a superior officer to shut up. The character doesn't fit and that's the problem I have with her. For example, House, he's a jerk, can't stand him, but I love the show because he fits and Hugh Laurie's terrific acting brings this jerk to life. He's a great character. So hating or liking the character has nothing to do with the actress. RN was given a substandard character. That's not her fault, but are we all supposed to pretend that we want to embrace this character just because of the actress? That's unrealistic; actresses and actors are changed all the time because of lack of chemistry. It's just the way it goes.
Secondly: How long are we supposed to give someone to prove themselves? She's been on what, eight, nine episodes now. That should be enough to prover herself to the audience. I started watching CM because I loved the work of Mandy Patinkin, but after the first episode I was invested in the other characters as well. They drew me in right off the bat. If it took nine episodes for characters to prove themselves in shows, a lot more would be cancelled. The same with PB and JM, I was impressed right off the bat. I think after nine episodes you can say we've given the character and actress a chance and she has done nothing to better her impression, for me at least.
gubegirl: Sorry about the music thing. I don't have much to add with new stuff. I'm not one of the young ones and I don't know who all these people are you're mentioning. I'm a CM girl, Criminal Minds and Country Music.
There is a new clip up for "The Stranger." Looks like Strauss is meddling again.
Thanks for the heads up, lauren j.
'...speaking of horror'. Rossi always has a good word for Strauss and doesn't much care who hears it. I love it when Strauss is included in an episode -- especially now there are so few women on set.
I wonder did the secrecy about the fake death go up as well as down the hierarchy?
UK viewer
Lauren J, is the clip on the CBS website or You Tube?
UK viewer, I have been thinking the same thing with the secrecy regarding Prentiss death. If Strauss is not in the loop, there will mpost likely be hell to pay if it is ever revealed that Prentiss death was faked and she was not informed. I'm also looking forward to seeing some sparks between Hotch and Strauss and Rossi and Strauss.
I saw the clip on IMDB, but I'm sure it's on CBS.
My understanding of witness protection is that nobody is told who does not absolutely have to know. I'm not sure why Hotch was even told. It's almost certain that Strauss does not know.
I find Strauss to be an interesting character. I think she means well? But when she sees trouble, her way of showing that she "cares" is by micromanaging things...which doesn't help.
For Strauss I think micromanagaing helps her feel in control as does being a stickler for the rules. It is a way for her to feel in control and to lord control over others.
The point of her assigning a probationary agent to the team is way out of character for someone like Strauss, way out of character. Strauss is a bureaucrat to the core and would not do this, she simply would not, unless there were not some nefarious reason behind it. I would hate to see Strauss also being written out of character because of the Seaver character so I am hoping that there is a nefarious reason that is in line with Strauss character, a reason that will be resolved by the end of the season so as to make room for the experienced profiler Hotch said the team needed and that he seemed determined to fill.
I hope Hotch makes it clear to Strauss, as he did to Rossi, that Seaver does not cut it experience wise for the team and as such they need to find someone who can fill that spot. Hotch made it more than clear that they need an experienced profiler on the team and I don't want another out of character moment like the 25 to life episode where Hotch magically accepted that the cadet, after the disastrous first case, complete her remedial training at the BAU, via e-mail of course.
Whether that profiler be JJ or not, an experienced profiler needs to step in. I'm hoping that it will be JJ. If Prentiss and JJ were to return, fantastic! I love Garcia, but she just simply must stop presenting the cases, not that she can't do it, just that it doesn't come across well, at least not to me. JJ needs to come back as a profiler or Media Liaison, doesn't matter, she just needs to come back ASAP!
Probably should have posted that comment in the next thread.. will cut and paste.
They wanted a new character with seaver, they want to try new things thats why they brought in a character like Agent Seaver.
This show is trying new things, i see nothing wrong with making the show fresh with new ideas.
Hotch also said that Seaver has potential, so i see them getting a new profiler, but also keeping seaver.
I see nothing wrong with them teaching a new agent to become a profiler. She already almost has the hang of it. Like you could see in the last episode
PASS,
great nickname!
Also, I have seen a few of Rachel Nichols movies just to give her a chance as an actress, she's not so bad in the movies. And I've said before, I think, she was alright in Alias.
But on CM she sucks! Its her acting style with the character and the wayt the PASS is written, as for The Inside, there is a reason the show got cancelled beyond the lack of viewers. Becuase it sucked. Great concept for a show and for the character of Rebecca Locke, terrible writing and overall cast chemistry and terrible casting. RN fancies herself as a Clarice Starling type a bit too much and goes overboard with the acting when it comes to the The Silence of The Lambs ripoffs.
Michael,
seriously, stop calling us haters! Read and understand what we are saying.Please!
Placebo's Running up that Hill was also great for CM, David Bowie's Heroes, Passive by A Perfect Circle, Godsmack's Whatever, The FCure's Watching Me Fall and Papa Roach's Time is Running Out.
Seaver does not have the hang of it and Hotch was saying a line completely out of character for him written by someone who should know Hotch better.
Also, she was put on the team as a probie, not as a profiler becuase she cant be one.Like I said,PASS does strange mental backflips, the second she starts making sense, she says or does something to cancel it all out, all within the span of 45 minutes no matter how much screentime she has. People who think logically can see that.
Also, Id ont care how JJ comes back, I just want her to come back. ANd please stop trying to get us to feel sorry for RN. She will be fine. She has friggin Conan! The writers try to get us to feel sorry for PASS and that ain't working either. AJ and Paget were sweet too! How do you think they felt about losing their jobs out of the blue and their families away from a family? Thomas Gibson said that it was like losing a limb when asked how it felt about losing AJ and Paget.
What they wanted was to get a cheaper replacement for both AJ and Paget.. and like the saying goes, you get what you pay for..
Bring AJ and Paget back!!!!!!!!
I know it is up to Paget, but God, I am hoping that she comes back so that this will all be but just a bad dream and that come season 7 the team, a team that should have NEVER been torn apart, comes back together!!!
They wanted to try new things with Rossi and Emily too. Emily was quirkier than the rest of the BAU family and Rossi was dramatic, is technically and both those new characters worked. They can continue trying new things...so long as it makes sense. Right now, its not making sense.
Alter Bride's Rise Today is a creat CM cast song
I don't remember if anyone has mentioned this song or not so my bad if its a repeat! but hurt by johnny cash from elephant's memory is a pretty good song. Not sure if it'd belong on the CM soundtrack but it reminds me of Reid a little bit.
Michael: Pls take a minute and read before you send. Read how you repeat yourself and that
you "see nothing." Not being mean, just trying to get you to stop and think. That would be AFTER you read/listen to so many people here saying the same thing - I can't imagine that you want to continue to invoke illwill from serious CM fans in your defense of someone who is just not working out. Simple.
Anonymous 44
Karen: yes, we have the JC songs - everybody seems to have liked them. Thanks!
Optika: pls save me a few and LMK if your song sugg are from prev epis or ideas for new? Thanks.
Pat: Don't apologize and I'll bet you are not old! Thanks for your ideas. (I LOVE Keith Urban BTW; what do you think of him?? I can hear that sweet voice singing in CM's future...sigh...))
Michael,
I don't think it's that we hate change or the thought of freshening the show up as long as the change or freshening stays within the premise that the show was built around. PASS is NOT A PROFILER. She should not be giving the profiles since she hasn't had the classes, or the required seven years experience. If a new agent absolutely must be part of the team, she should be treated as such, doing the grunt work for a while and learning by watching the team. Hotch or perhaps Rossi should be going over cases with her, showing her how they're chosen like JJ did with Jordan. JJ was there for almost seven years she said and she didn't give the profile. Someone who could suggest that a ten year old autistic boy shot his father and carted him and his mother off somewhere and still was in time for school is not ready to be a profiler. That's my problem with it, the total ridiculousness of it all. That's why I can't take this character seriously, because the situation is so totally inane.
As I said before, I agree that a rookie should not be a member of an elite unit like the BAU. But I made my peace with it and accept her as a probationary agent who is asking questions and learning from the experienced agents. I also started to like Seaver. She seems to have has a sweet personality and she did not do anything yet that made her unlikeable to me.
So if Prentiss/Paget does not come back , I want the team to be in season 7: Garcia, Seaver and the four guys. I do not want them to add an experienced older female profiler to the team. Seaver does not change the team dynamic for me. She is the young newbie and that is what every team member sees in her. She does not change the relationships between the team members. A new more older agent would change the realtionships between the team members because she would automatically be more friends with, or have a better connection with some of the team members but not with others. Like when Rossi (whom I love ) became a member of the team, Hotch`s relationship with the rest of the team changed because he now "had Rossi". Since then we hardly saw any scenes between Hotch and Reid for example.
I do like the team dynamic as it is now and it was perfect when Prentiss was still with the team. Rossi and Prentiss were the perfect addtion to the team. So maybe they would find another perfect new team/cast member. But I doubt that. We were very lucky that we got Paget and Joe as replacements for Lola and Mandy. We might not be so lucky with another new member. Also I`m afraid when they bring in a new female agent (who no doubt will be beautiful), they might eventually hook her up with one of the men (Hotch or Rossi maybe).
As for JJ coming back as a profiler or in any other job, I would not like to see that. I adore AJ Cook, but in "Lauren" I had an indifferent feeling towards JJ. She was somehow distanced, impersonal. I did not feel her belonging to the team anymore. Just my opinion or better my feelings of course.
Songs I would like to hear in CM: anything from the earlier years(the eighties) of English band "And Also The Trees". Their dark sound would fit great into the show.
Zagi, if you see the promo for this week's episode they do not have her as a newbie asking questions, which again, is completely inappropiate for that type of team, she is sitting there acting as if she is an experienced profiler when there is no way in the world she could be. As many have stated, this is not a starting point team, this is an elite and specialized team. Something that is elite and specialized is unique, special, and as such should include people who are unique and special enough experience and qualifications wise to be there, not people who are there learning and asking questions, which again, they don't even have this character doing at any great length.
As far as the team dynamics, for me they have absolutely changed. It changed when JJ left, and it has changed even more with Prentiss' absence. Something is amiss with the team and I don't believe I am alone in saying that. As far as them hooking up characters with one another, I am in agreement with you, I would not ever want to see that, but that is not up to us, it is up to the show and if it is something that they plan to do, they will do it. I don't think it would be a good idea at all, but that is out of are hands and to accept a sub par character for fear of that happening is not in my view acceptable.
In regard to JJ, she was, unfortunately, barely in the Lauren episode and to say that the vibe that you got from that one episode where she barely apppeared will be what she will be like if she returns is jumping the gun. I want JJ to return and would adore if Paget returned. If this is not possible on either end, then they must simply create a character whom merits a spot on a team that is elite and specialized.
Speaking for myself, I sure am not watching CM for the making of a profiler, which has never been and should never be the job of the BAU in the first place!
It's ironic that people were complaining there's been little proper profiling and too many leaps made..... well, I can see where they've been spending their precious time on.
For me, seeing AJ in "Lauren" only highlighted how much I miss JJ's presence on the team. She is sorely missed and the team dynamic is off without her. AJ Cook conveyed more in her few minutes of screen time than PASS can in an entire episode.
According to her file, Prentiss was not experienced in profiling when she first joined. In the show Outfoxed, she said that he was the first case that she had studied, which was less than a year before she joined the team. She was put on the team by Strauss and a FBI background was created for her rather than telling her supervisors (Hotch and Gideon) the truth, that she was a former CIA operative. As Gideon said when they went to a CIA office to profile that team. CIA agents are the best LIARS in the world. Prentiss was put on the team as a mole to return information to Strauss. She is the one who chose not to spy for Strauss but she was an FBI trained profiler when she joined. She asked questions and many time said weird things in the first year she was on, but she did get better and was able to be more informative as she learned how to interact with the team.
I agree that a more seasoned agent should join the team and that a probationary agent is not what is needed but Strauss has her own agenda when it comes to this team and Seaver.
Right now we will have to wait and see.
My fingers don't always work fast enough but I meant to say the Prentiss was NOT a FBI trained prolier when she joined the team.
Christy, I don't recall any of the "weird things" that you say Prentiss asked in her first episodes with the team. Could you point to specific examples of that because for me she has always shown experience in the profiling arena. As far as asking questions, some team members have more experience and expertise in one area than others which adds to them all being able to contribute something as their collective experience and expertise adds to the creation of the profile. Also, as the whole Prentiss arc revealed, there are things in her file that were omitted, plus, it is clear that she had some sort of training and/or experience to be able to contribute on the level that she did. Yes, Strauss did advance her application to the BAU so that she could spy on the team and report back to her, but that doesn't change the fact that Prentiss had the experience and expertise to be there, that just shows that Strauss is underhanded and desperate to get Hotch out of the way.
Glenda,
I can't give you examples of what I think was weird because I seldom remember what Prentiss would say in an episode. It just never IMO helped to do much so I didn't pay much attention to her or what she says in the briefings and such. The few episodes that I enjoyed her in I can count on one hand. I agree that she had the 'knowledge and attributes' for the position however her files did not show that and her profiling abilites did not always shine through the other abilites that she had. I enjoyed her language skills and in many ways her diplomatic skills better. They were abilities that really promoted her best. That she chose not to be the mole did improve her in my eyes but I still never really saw that she contributed in profiling the unsubs. She was good in other ways but not in profiling.
Okay, needless to say that I disagree strongly with that assessment. Prentiss played a key role in helping contribute to the creation of the profiles, to say otherwise, well, I just don't know where that would come from. But that is your opinion so we should probably leave it at that as well as the file that was shown to have omitted key facts with regard to Prentiss past experience as Hotch brought up in the Lauren episode, and what is clear being that she had to have had some sort of experience and expertise other than what her file reflected to be able to contribute on the level that she did.
Tia said : "As many have stated, this is not a starting point team, this is an elite and specialized team. Something that is elite and specialized is unique, special, and as such should include people who are unique and special enough experience and qualifications wise to be there, not people who are there learning and asking questions, which again, they don't even have this character doing at any great length."
Tia , I know all that. I am aware that the BAU is an elite unit and that a rookie should not be there. I know that they are special and unique and that an agent needs years of experience to be accepted to the BAU. I was as opposed as everybody else to the idea of a "Clarice Sterling" typ character joining the team. And I voiced my unhappiness with the character not only on here, but on several other boards. But as I said , I made my peace with the situation and the character. Others haven`t and I`m fine with that. I was just voicing my opinion.
Zagi, you said exactly what I feel.
I know, I know, I know everything about Seaver, I know everything about the show, but I don't care anymore, I just want to enjoy it.
Late to the party, but I agree with Optika.
The problem is that it has become less and less enjoyable with that character on it :(
Hi, Connie,
I read your comment and under stand. I seriously didn't mean to offend any one by saying give Rachel Nichols and Seaver a chance, and not hate on her. I didn't mean to say that people on this blog specifically, but I have seen hate on her in other places and I assumed that people on this blog might notice it too. (my bad for assuming)...I reread my comment too and i guess the way i worded the comment was bad. I'm sorry. I didn't mean to say people on this blog. And Peggy: Sorry about all the hating business. Really I am! Its okay not to like a character or actor/actress. I'm not telling anyone who to like or not to. I have no right to that (obviously). I was just mentioning that some people say they hate her.
So I'm gonna stop talking now, but I guess what I was really trying to say and I screwed up in my wording, was that if you see people hating on her, mention to them to give her a chance?
Maybe that's what I was trying to say. not exactly sure....
But anyway. Sorry to cause any problems if i did.
Anonymous said...
"The problem is that it has become less and less enjoyable with that character on it :( "
But not for everybody :)
I tried to read through all the comments but I had to skim in the end …anyway my two cents … finally an episode that is worth a second & third viewing and I have watched it four times already mind you more for the team interaction than the storyline. Finally we have our Unit Chief where he belongs and in his glory, it was great to finally see Hotch front and centre & TG’s awesome acting skills on display.
Overall the story line was good, and well presented & I thought Kelli Williams did an amazing job as the distraught mother, still a little too much unsub focused for my liking but I got the team moments that I’ve been hanging out for so this worked for me.
Absolutely loved Hotch doing the team interviews, and the range of emotions displayed by the team & Hotch himself something we have missed pretty much throughout season 6 with it’s heavy unsub focused episodes.
Sdwally I’m in total agreement with you and enjoyed reading your comments and insights, yeah I can see how you are partial to Hotch … the same here!!
I’m hoping that this is the turning point for CM and it will only get stronger from here on.
And @Marleny I’m not sure if anyone else mentioned or responded to your comment on "The Scientist" by Coldplay, it has featured on CM was used at the end of the Tribe (season 1) when Hotch goes in to mend fences with his brother (one of my favourite episodes!), the music used on the DVD is different though, which is “When All is Said and Done” by Tyrone Wells. Gotta say I love the music on CM I got hooked with “The Riddle” by Five for Fighting.
gubegirl:
You'll be sorry you asked. I sort of always think of songs in relation to my favorite character. I thought when Reid was overcoming his drug problem or even overcoming his present issues, they could use a song like Stand by Rascal Flatts.
Also I could see them out having a drink one night when they've come to acceptance of Emily's death and strains of (remember I told you I was old) Johnny Rivers' Into the Mystic playing.
I am a Criminal Minds fan, a long-time follower and person who cares about the show. Therefore, I do not support the nonsensical addition of a cadet to the BAU. It demeans the credibility of the BAU and THAT I reject.
Rachel Nichols is pretty and probably a nice person. I have no problem with the actress.
But a CADET is not qualified to join an elite unit of psychological profilers, regardless of life experience/fresh eyes, whatever.
It seems as though executives who care more about demographics/their ideas/ratings than story forced the show runners into a corner and the writers messed up. In explaining Seaver's youth they introduced a character who is not a credible addition to the BAU team.
I am sorry, Criminal Minds Fan, that it was necessary to shut the other thread down - sometimes I think that's the only way. I wish people could monitor themselves better...sometimes it feels like elementary school. Back in parochial school as a kid, that kind of behavior would get your knuckles rapped with the pointer!
Hah!
gubegirl, what happened on the other thread? I just noticed it was shut down.
Cindy: Guessing it just not too nasty went down late yesterday, I think or early last nite PST, can''member exactly. Not nec the very last posts, but several further up were getting pretty carried away - as usual these days. Such negativity seems to breed contempt and then even nice people start to get riled up! Spoils it for the rest of us, huh? Somehow, I feel that it is getting to be more of a battlefield than the fun place to talk about our show and the characters the way it used ot be. Sigh...:(
Don't you love the way we are the only die-hards to be so desparate as to look here? Hah? Keep smilin', it's gonna work out just fine. I have a good feeling about the show:)
Ha! Mine was the last post, so I'm feeling slightly "Oooops", even though it wasn't me being arsey further up.
I posted circa 11pm BST last night so that would make it ~6pm on the East Coast and ~3pm on the West Coast (if that helps).
Have a good weekend, ladies...
p.s. I googled that Patron stuff - going to get a bottle this summer, methinks!
Blimey Limey, Cindy,
BL: what was your last comment on the other thread for? about warning them to be nice or something like that as if you got the heads-up that the thread was going down? Like, maybe, a text??!!
Watch out for that Patron, GF, drinking it straight like "poppers" is not for the faint of heart! But if you are serious, get that or some other good quality tequila and I will send you my margarita recipe - you need to get ready for Mexican even if you only make it to southern Cali! 'Course I could throw the makings in the blender and we could start planning our next Girls' Nite (only time I make these at home - usu have them out with Mexican food.) I'll leave that offer out there just in case.
How long do you think we can go here before Optika and LaShawna find us here? Don't you just feel like little kids sneaking around here? I love lurking like this - Hah!
Let me just tell you right now: if any of the ranters show up, I'm outta here. Don't care to spoil my wkend or get my BP up even a tiny bit.
Someone had suggested a "design an unsub" competition, so I dug out my most twisted ideas. I don't think that got the thread closed down, but you never know. :-/
The warning was in reference to my Mum's observation that both myself and the unsub line up bottles, etc in the kitchen cupboards and fridge with all the labels facing forward. My excuse is that it makes the labels quicker and easier to read! She suggested I must be a budding sociopath (charming...), hence my warnings for people to be nice to me. Read & heed!
I'll have to go easy on the Patron, I've turned into a total lightweight these days. My cousin is in Vegas for a wedding (not hers!) two days before I land, so she's staying in town and taking me out on "the lash". Should be a cheap night out, two drinks and I'll be on the floor and begging for my bed before midnight. Feeble.
I've noticed Jack's going to be in "Out of the light", according to the cast list - wonder if we'll get to know Hotch's secret (assuming it's not just that he knows Prentiss is alive)? I've kind of given up on Reid's headache storyline, so will divert my attention to Hotch.
Can't believe how long it is until the next episode, just as standards are picking up.
gubegirl, I don't know if you'll see this, but I hope you do. The other thread was shut down before I could reply to your post and I just wanted to thank you :) I didn't realize I came off as a 30yr old in these posts! It's quite ironic actually because when people see me they have a hard time believing I'm 19, they think I'm 13/14 :D!
Anyways, I may have come across much older than my actual age is because I've always been an avid reader, and I love the English language and literature. It's one of the main reasons why I love Reid so much. He knows 16th century ballads, and Arthurian literature and stuff like that. He's like my ideal guy. I would listen to his rambles on these subjects without interrupting him ever. He's just such a gem.
And JJ is back for real! AJ Cook signed a 2yr deal! I couldn't be more ecstatic! I'm so happy, I even cried a little :') I've missed her so much. I hope this means it's the end of PASS.
heyva,
I just KNEW you would find us - we geeks need to stick together!
Was thrilled to see JJ signed back on - felt it was going to happen and I tell you, TPTB are listening, and the ranters need to stop with all their hagging!
It's cute that you say people take you to be younger by your appearance because I always had trouble with that, too! But now, when I am taken to be ten years younger than I am, I don't complain! Hah! It's when my son reminds me, "but you're such a MOM..." then I feel my age.
Geeks and Geek luv'rs! Rock on!
Have a good day:) Who else do you think might find us lurking here, heyva?!
Ooooooh! AJ Cook returns!! Fabulous news for a Saturday afternoon. I really hope Paget Brewster also returns, but don't want to send bad vibes to her new show. *Dilemma*
Wonder that the future holds for the Seaver character? While I certainly wouldn't miss Seaver, I'd feel bad for Rachel Nichols if she's given the boot - it's not her fault she got caught up in CBS's pathetic little games. *Another dilemma*
Glad to see that this thread hasn't been hijacked, LOL.. I am sooooo happy that AJ is coming back to the show. I can't wait to see her in the opening cerdits again!!!!!! I am curious how she will ne integrated into the season finale; the article stated that she will make a guest appearance in the season finale.
Blimey Limey, I agree with you that it is sad that Nichols got the short end of the stick with regard to the whole AJ/PB nightmare that the network created. That being said, I do think that the best thing to do is to move on from the Seaver character and try and get the show back to some sense of normalcy. For various reasons, the Seaver character hasn't fit into the show and to try to keep making that work, I think, would be a mistake. Not to mention the whole people thinking that JJ and Seaver are basically twins.
On some level, I think Nichols must have expected the resistance to her character and I don't think can be terribly shocked that the Seaver character has yet to be well received with the majority of the fan base. Of course, she must have been holding out hope, but I think she must have to admit that by and large it is not working.
I am desperate for Paget to return. I would sooooo love to see the season 7 opening credits with the originals. With that said, I too do not want to wish bad vibes on her pilot. Paget has expressed excitement over that project and so if it is something that she is still excited about, gets picked up, and she wants to pursue, then I will make sure to tune in.
Oh, Patron, 2 thumbs up :)
Count me with the geek lovers gubegirl, I found you too, and I thought I was being sneaky! Was missing my daily dose of the blog.
cindy, BL, heyva and pat,
So WTH are the others? Off on holiday or something?!
Are we excited about AJ or what?Are you thinking she will return in her former role or as a profiler? I think this will increase PB's likelihood of returning IF her pilot fails (hope not for her and Jack Black's case!) and she chooses to come back - we would certainly be waiting with open arms, huh?.
Missing the discussion and the joking but not missing the rants and all that anger. Pls Criminal Minds Fan, leave this thread here a little longer so we can get our proper "blooging/CM" - not nec in that order - fix!
Now why can't we find a way to have it be like this each week: no crazies, just nice people who love CM? Too much to ask?
It's wine time and almost time for the Killing. Getting me by the meanwhile...:)
TTFN, GFs!
I think it is interesting now that Seaver has graduated from the academy Hotch has taken more of an interest in her experiencing life as a profiler. It was like when she was a cadet she wasn't worth his time to train as a profiler. Hotch is an excellent profiler trainer, he is patient, tolerant and very open to helping his rookie and newbie agents gain experience under his watchful eye. It was good of him to take Seaver into the house and give her the opportunity to gain experience. He did that with Reid, he did that with Prentiss, and I am sure that when Morgan first joined the team he did that with him. None of our current profilers began in the BAU with nothing more than knowledge, no experience as profilers. They gained that experience in the BAU under the watchful eye of Hotch or in Rossi's case Hotch gained it under him. I like that there is a newbie and rookie profiler needing experience to become a profiler.
What happened to the new discussion thread put up early today, 4/27?
Was away most of day and was looking forward to reading everyone's ideas, hopes, etc. and now it looks as tho' it never existed!
Cindy, Blue, Optika, Pat, BL, heyva, LaShawna: somebody clue me in! I hope no one got mean and rude again - pretty soon we won't have this to talk on at all let alone have a super dry summer coming up...:(
Doesn't seen appropriate to write on Shemar's b'day card....so here I am...
Remember to watch "JJ" rerun tonite! Such a memorable episode!
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