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- CRIMINAL MINDS: JOE MANTEGNA'S STAR
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- KIRSTEN VANGSNESS SHARES EXCITING NEWS!
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- CRIMINAL MINDS: BEST NEWS EVER!
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«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 400 of 644 Newer› Newest»Many thanks to the blog owner for publishing the transcript of TG's chat. It's not easy for overseas people to fit in with the timing of the chats so this was a real treat. It would be great if all of the CM chats could be published like this though I suspect it's rather at TG's insistence so as to spread further the message about kindness to Rachel Nichols. But I can hope and beg. Please do open them out this way, please, pretty please...
And big thanks to TG and JM too who have spoken out on behalf of their fellow cast member. Maybe people shouldn't need to be told to be generous by Hotch and Rossi (!) but if it works, terrific.
:o)
UK viewer
Does anyone know for sure if AJ is going to appear in the season finale? It seems like they are going to be wrapping up the final episode in a few days.
So excited that AJ is coming back!! I really hope Paget comes back too!!
I just watched my local CBS line up this morning (for tonight) and unless they've made some programming mistake, CM won't be shown here tonight!!!
I haven't watched much of the last two eps in protest but I was hoping to catch tonights episode to 'check back in'. Oh well...I'll get the highlights tomorrow.
Have a good day everyone!
Rambler warning -- I'm OD'ing on caffeine and TG - and it's a WONDERFUL feeling! Uh, not so much for the people around me 'cause i've been dancing (i have 300 left feet; so 'dance' is a strictly relative term), and faces and other body parts have tended to get in the way. Haven't stopped grinning since i read the transcript (have been kicked since i saw the twitpic of a third of his left foot on Sunday). Thank you, Jill, and thank you, TG! Nice 'fweet', too, on TTFT.
Would love to see transcripts of many/all of these chats if possible! Did i say thank you? and thank you?
Nanci:
Didn't we read in the TV Guide last week that this week and next (4/20 and 4/27) there are no new epi's?
Just checked: a re-run of "Into the Woods" about the killer trailing the kids on the Appalachian trail epi is on, from earlier this season and next wk's is the one about JJ helping the family find their daughter - JJ-centric:)
Last 3 new epi's of this season should be May 4th, and 11th with the finale on the 18th.
I cked and last year we learned on 5/26 that show was renewed. I would think since JJ is def returning, they feel CM is a shoo in or have been given the green lite on renewal early.
gubegirl - thanks, I guess I missed the tv guide comments. Like I said, I haven't watched the last two episodes in protest so I guess I wasn't paying attention.
I am, however, so glad that JJ's coming back and possibly Paget that I'll start watching even if it means skimming thru 'certain' scenes to get thru it. I love Criminal Minds - can't wait for Season 7.....
Thanks again!
I think it is great that TG called for people to basically not bash RN. Let's just be civil to one another and the cast. I think that is what he was asking people to do irrespective of how they feel about the character on the show. You can totally disagree with the character being on the show but still have respect for RN.
On another topic (please), I have also noticed that it seems like production is about to end soon for the season finale. I heard it here, or maybe read, that AJ was appearing in the season finale. Anonymous asked if that was confirmed. Is it confirmed? If so, I imagine she'd have to be coming in pretty soon to start filming her part in the episode.
Sameera,
Anna Fleiner, the makeup artist confirmed it on Twitter.
My guess is that it will be a brief appearance, maybe even just a phone call, to set up her re-entry in season 7.
Thanks Anonymous!
How old is Shemar turning today? Whatever age it is, he looks great!!!
Criminal Minds - 6:21 (clip)
Criminal Minds - A Taste For the Kill
http://www.buddytv.com/tvshow/page/criminal-minds-videos-1.aspx#state=s/500277106
Can anyone watch this and tell us what it says. Apparently my country is not good enough for the internet anymore.
I'm likely to get lambasted for this but here goes. Although I think it was kind of TG to stick up for RN and I'm sure the sentiment was genuine on his part, the fact that he brought it up when it was never even brought into the conversation almost reeks of towing the company line with their pleas to "embrace Seaver" and now this. The writers have almost been forcing her down our throats, begging us to like her and now this. I have nothing against RN, never have. I had never set eyes on her before this role. The only thing I have a problem with is the character she plays and I, and the majority of posters here, have made that abundantly clear on many occasions. So if we don't say anything, because now we have cast members pleading on the actress' behalf, will that give CBS the impression that we have now accepted this character? I have nothing against RN and as TG says, I'm sure she is a sweet and lovely woman but every actor/actress likely takes on a role that is just a lousy role. That is not her fault and I wholeheartedly defend that, but it shouldn't mean that we have to shut up and put up with a character that does not fit just to keep the actress happy.
Pat, I guess I will stand in line with you to get lambasted because I too don't believe that people who have issues with this character should not remain silent. I strongly agree with the fact that the actress should not be roasted for playing this character on CM. I have never had an issue with the actress, never saw her in anything before CM. It has always exclusively been an issue of the character for me, not the actress. In my view, there has been an almost exhausted line of different ploys to get the viewer to accept this character. None of which appear to have been hugely successful, most definitely not with me (personally, I've grown tired of them). Please read carefully, I am not saying that TG's statements were part of some ploy. I honestly feel that he was being sincere about what he said. TG is a class act. And like Pat, I wholeheartedly defend the fact that RN should not be roasted for playing this role on CM. I have no doubt that this actress is a nice person but that has nothing to do with the fact that she is playing a character that I believe does not fit on the show. This is something that I cannot remain silent about. I will always be respectful toward the actress, but for however long this character remains on the show, I must be upfront and honest about my feelings about the character.
Mary Lynn and Pat,
Count me in! I want this character gone and the sooner the better! I believe many of the fans do, too. It's been stated and re-stated zillions of time.
I have said this before and I'll say it again- I believe the 'die-down' of the Seaver-bashing is related to the joy of having AJ back. I don't believe the two are related - I just think people are commenting on their joy of having a capable character back on the show.
I, too, would HATE with a capital H to have the PTB think that because the fans have slowed down their insistence that she be removed that this is acceptance of this character. IT IS NOT! Not now or ever -
Thanks for taking up the banner! Count me in!
FWIW, Paget said that it took about 6 months for the fans to accept Prentiss. And Prentiss stepped into a far less volatile situation than Seaver did.
I, for one, stand with the entire cast and crew of Criminal Minds in supporting Rachel Nichols and the character of Ashley Seaver.
I don't doubt that lauren J., but Paget played a character that was within the realm of the show. The Seaver character is not such a character and that is my issue and will always be my issue with this character no matter how they try and serve it up.
I will never disrespect the actress, hugely respect the cast and crew at CM, but I can never accept such a character for CM. I must be honest about that as well.
Lauren,
You can stand for as long as you like, but you might get lonely! (I'm just teasing...) The entire cast and crew HAS to stand together - it wouldn't really look good for anyone to not support the other(s).
Not to dispute you or Paget for that matter but I don't ever remember there being such a back-lash on the Prentiss character. There may have been detractors in the beginning, just as there always are, but I don't remember this much 'hatred' (and I don't mean towards RN) with her character. Maybe she felt that but it certainly wasn't apparent from any message boards or forums that I remember.
I liked her right off, but then again, I had fallen out of 'love' with Elle - she just rubbed me the wrong way when she blamed Hotch for 'getting her shot'.....baloney!
I think I am going to be the third or fourth person to quote what LaShawna posted because I think it rings true when she wrote it, and apparently it still rings true now.
LaShawna wrote:
"I agree that Rachel should not be personally attacked for doing her job. And Thomas was right to tell fans to stop harassing Rachel. That is not the same as telling us to support the character of Ashley if we don't already like her. . The two issues are completely separate things. Just because Rachel is a nice, sweet person, that doesn't mean the Ashley detractors think she's a good fit for the show."
I can't say it any better than LaShawna did in her post.
I think Shemar is turning 40 or 41. I think?
Ana: I just spent ten minutes scrolling thru the website and altho' I can see last wk's epi (The Stranger) which is #21, it only contains clips from that epi and some maybe some previous. The finale video on there is from season 3 and I don't see a date but maybe this yr's finale will be up around May 1st since they are still filming next week.
Shemar is 41. Sigh...time's a flyin' girls, one of you young 'uns need to jump up and start chasing him...I hope you're fast and strong and can ride like the wind - just be careful if you're doing any bike stalking in his neighborhood that you don't get hit by a car like he did year before last:)
I still can't believe that man has not been scooped up yet. I need to dust off my bicycle :)
Gubegirl, yes, Patron, Margaritas, and I say a bottle of champagne are in order to celebrate AJ coming back to CM. Perhaps Blimey Limey could bring some tea to curb the edge off of the other beverages :)
Sorry for the long post, just found this article (and it's just a partial) on another site. It says some interesting things.
"After negotiations with Criminal Minds producers, former regular A. J. Cook has agreed to return for two more seasons. Her character Jennifer “JJ” Jareau will return to the show for season 7 this fall.
Speculation about Cook’s return began last week, after series executive producer Ed Bernero announced that he was leaving Criminal Minds. She won’t have been gone long – Cook only left the show last year, at the beginning of season 6. She signed on to play the JJ character for at least two more years after the writers and producers came up with new story ideas for her character.
The casting situation on Criminal Minds has been hectic (at best) these last few years. Cook left at the begining of Season 6 and co-star Paget Brewster left 6 months later. Joe Mantegna stepped in to take Mandy Patinkin’s spot in season 3, and Brewster herself took over Lola Glaudini’s spot as an SSA after season 1.
Rachel Nichols currently plays Ashley Seaver, pulling double duty covering the female roles for both Cook and Brewster.
Speaking of Nichols: it’s unlikely that she’ll stay on after Cook returns. While the plot of Criminal Minds certainly has room for another FBI agent, CBS’s budget probably won’t. Unless something happens behind the scenes, I wouldn’t be surprised to see Nichols make a graceful exit early next season.
Returning Cook to her normal role is a big win for fans of the crime drama. The constant casting changes haven’t sat well with viewers, or for that matter, cast members. And if certain conditions aren’t met, Cook may not be the only one coming back…"
Was this a typo on your part by stating:
"And if certain conditions aren’t met, Cook may not be the only one coming back…"
I'm thinking it should read
"And if certain conditions are met, Cook may not be the only one coming back…"
Is that correct? Otherwise it is confusing and makes no sense.
TG just tweeted this pic: http://twitpic.com/4na63n/full
I've seen this actress before but I can't put my finger on her name...anyone know?
She must be the head of the sex crimes unit from the finale description. Any possibility that she's a potential new team member for next season if Paget doesn't return?
She does look familiar but I have no idea???
I want to say that she used to have blonde hair?
OMG this is going to annoy the crap out of me until we figure out who it is.
Anonymous - I believe it was a typo, but not mine. I just copied and pasted...I think you're right, tho - it should have read that way.
I found the article, it was a typo on Nanci's part.
The line in the article reads:
"And if certain conditions are met, Cook may not be the only one coming back…"
Thanks for pointing that out anonymous - have a good day.
Pat, Nanci, Mary Lyn:
The same thought crossed my mind as I have expressed my desire to stop talking about Seaver. I can't believe that TPTB aren't well aware of our feelings; I think recent actions prove that they have heard us; I have been seeing signs of it for some time and JJ returning is a huge step in the right direction. Our dilemna will be how do we continue to let them know that we are still disatisfied if we stop talking about it?
I think that only time will tell but I would like to think that they have gotten our message loud and clear and the this article that Nanci found is right: there will be no room for her after AJ and poss PB return.
That said, we will need to revisit the subject at that time. I think for now, we need to follow our heads & hearts, listen to TG and most importantly, HAVE FAITH. I do, I really do.
We all know what long-term CM fans truly want and we needn't continue to go on about it because there is NOTHING left that has not already been addressed. So it can go unsaid for the time being and we just trust that the proper steps will be taken, SOON.
Now Michael, my dear, before you jump to her defense, I have no doubt the RN will have garnered so much attention and publicity by the time this is all over, she will have no prob finding employment elsewhere. She may end up being notorious: "the other woman" who almost de-railed CM by making CM fans absolutely nuts with her JJ looks, wrong-colored hair, top in her cadet-training class but short on qualifications;yada...yada...yada.
gubegirl - good post and I totally agree. I think, for sure, we've been heard and loudly!
From here on, I'll just wait and see what news the summer brings before we begin S7.
Take care!
We all know what long-term CM fans truly want
I really find comments like this disparaging, as if one isn't a fan if they don't feel the need to complain about this issue. I've watched this show religiously since the pilot episode aired and I could care less about this character one way or another and believe it or not, there are many who feel the same way.
sf81387,
Then they are the silent majority as the ones on this forum and many others are making their statements known.
As far as this character goes...it DOES matter re: the quality of the drama and how it affects those of us who watch is regularly. In my opinion, the disparating part of this is the character, not the comments.
If you don't care about the character one way or the other, then try not to allow the comments to get you down. I know it has to affect you, also, if you really enjoy the show and see that people are making negative comments.
Trust me, I love this show also, and the negativity is starting to wear thin - but I can't abide by one character ruining an entire show. And...it does happen.
Gubegirl...so much for my 'waiting for news this summer'....just can't help myself.
sf81387, perhaps gubegirl should have written "what it appears like most long-term CM fans really want." I don't think she was intentionally trying to lump everyone in the same boat, although, I am right there on that boat with her.
Instead of going through that again, at least for now, can we talk about AJ/JJ?
I'm not sure how JJ will come back into the fold, but what I am curious about is how they are going to deal with the whole Hotch and JJ knowing that Emily is alive story. If Paget returns, I think this will be key because it is something that will have to revealed almost immediately, I think. I can't imagine what effects this will have on the team. I know they had to leave an opening in case Paget wanted to return, but I almost wish they would have done something like her secretly saying goodbye, and upon a return, just write it as being safe for her to return. I think it is a delicate story line that is going to be tricky to write, not impossible, just tricky.
What do others think?
Nanci,
It's a fact that people who are angry are louder than people who are not. That doesn't mean there are more of them, it just means they are louder. I don't believe this character who is barely noticeable is ruining the show. I do believe she is ruining the experience for those who find her presence infuriating and upsetting and I do feel bad for those who are really that put off by her.
I'm just not sure how large the numbers are in either direction. It's hard to tell since the show really doesn't garner the attention of critics in the media and the ratings have stayed pretty stable, which considering all the upheaval is somewhat miraculous.
I am curious about is how they are going to deal with the whole Hotch and JJ knowing that Emily is alive story.
I think Hotch and JJ will be working alone in an office together and will be seated together alone at the back of the plane for awhile. ; )
Seriously though, I think all the normal emotions will play out and I think they'll be more angry with Hotch than JJ because he actually spent the days after with them watching them grieve and because he's the boss and she's one of them. She'll get forgiven quicker than he will.
Morgan will be angry and over-react at first and he might get so angry Hotch will have to send him to a time-out like he did in "LO-Fi", but he will come around once he cools off and realize the secret had to be kept.
Rossi probably won't be upset with them and will probably play mediator between the team and Hotch until they all settle down.
Reid is too logical to get all hurt and angry and feeling betrayed. I think he'll just be really happy she's alive.
Garcia's hard to gauge. She pushes the envelope at times with Hotch and to his credit he's allowed her to cross the insubordination line and have her tantrums because she's the type that needs to get that stuff out, as is Morgan. I suspect she'll have one of those angry moments with Hotch and he'll let her and then she'll forgive him.
I also think there is a huge element of Groupthink involved in this type of online forum. You can see it clearly in the progression of ideas through these threads. Forum members are a very small, and by definition, non-representative sample of the viewing population. I really hope CBS isn't making their decisions based off of the forums.
It would be great to have both of our ladies back, but it is a lost battle if TG isn't there too. I wish CBS would hurry up and sign him to a big fat new deal. The world and cm need more Hotch, certainly more than we've had this year. Thanks for the chat, Thomas!
Well considering that it was probably the ongoing angry reaction in CM fan forums, Facebook and other articles published about CM that made CBS change it's mind and bring JJ back, I can say they probably DO listen to the fans on occasion. Now if people don't care one way or the other about AJ's return I can see how they wouldn't necessarily want the show to base their decisions on the fan reactions. However, if you ARE happy AJ is, it's hard to say that the show should listen to angry fans with regards to JJ, but disregard angry fans when it comes to Ashley. These reactions and the show's response to them are flip sides of the same coin. I highly doubt if there was no reaction to AJ's departure, they could have asked her to return. They thought her character was expendable, and was probably surprised at the sheer outrage the fans had over her firing. What decision they make regarding Rachel's status is hard to guess. If she returns as a regular, there will be many people who are angry about it. However, if she leaves, there will be people angry about that. Either way, some group of fans are not going to get what they want with regards to Ashley and will be angry and disappointed. We just don't know what group of fans that will be yet.
The difference between AJ leaving and the Seaver character is that AJ's firing garnered some serious negative mainstream media attention. In contrast, the only Seaver negativity has been on the forums.
sf81387: I apologize to you and anyone that may have found my remark re: CM Fanatics. I should have said most.
I would like to say tho', that because we don't accept character of Seaver the way it has written, doesn't necessarily mean we are angry. Confused and frustrated are words that come to mind that many of us are feeling about the situation. We're not all angry and I have done my best in recent weeks to encourage posters here to use this forum for the purpose it was meant for: that it is to share ideas & enjoy each other's discussion; to have fun and treat each other respectfully.
I would venture to say that there are some angry people on the OTHER side of the Seaver fence also and every once in awhile you get a "hater" (I hate that word!) like the one that went off about Shemar the other day. Sounded like the same person who ended up with a nasty post on Shemar's b'day greeting, if you can believe that. I didn't notice it later so I think the administrator caught it.
Anway, my apologies again. I do not care to offend anyone here, esp a fellow CM fan. And Kathleen, thanks for trying to clarify for me:)
Yes, but the media attention surrounding AJ's firing died down shortly after she left the show. Why do you think CBS asked AJ to return to the show?
I think a big part of it has to do with the fact that the show seriously struggled with exposition after JJ left.
But I thought that Ashley was supposed to be the new exposition character with all her questions and learning? And Penelope doing the inbriefs? Though I agree, JJ's absence was glaring in those situations and I for one will be happy Penelope is not doing the briefs anymore. At least I'm assuming she won't.
I'm not much invested in JJ if honest. More interested in writers' problem integrating Seaver. So I'd prefer to see that carried thro. Plus it would aggravate me big time if the show starts taking direction from the backseat. The backseat shouldn't drive this.
All characters do a little bit of exposition. Seaver's questions in the first couple of episodes served in this capacity a little bit. However, there are certain characters whose main purpose for existing is exposition. JJ was one of those characters. Garcia and Reid also do a ton of exposition. You take away one of those characters, and you start having major exposition problems if you don't fill that role. Seaver was never meant to be a replacement for that.
I think they did mean for Garcia to fill that role a little bit. However, it didn't work. Garcia is a light-hearted character. You can't have her presenting cases about severed limbs and prostitutes and knife wounds. She's supposed to be the audience's relief from that.
Pat, I must agree with everything you said.
Noble of Gibson to ask, but respect for the actress and support for the character are two completely different things.
To be honest, I'm getting tired of this. The writers defending the character, the cast defending the actress, even the other characters defending this character on the show.
That seems like a lot of effort for a character that doesn’t bring that much (if anything) to the table. Sorry, Rick, but this team doesn’t need Seaver. And the show doesn’t need an exposition character to ask questions. Because this is a show about team work, so they are constantly exchanging notes and asking and answering questions between each other. Or they put the cop of the week to ask questions, but there’s no need for someone who knows nothing about profiling to be slowing this team down with questions.
And that’s when she is actually playing that role. Because since Paget left, it just seems to me like she automatically got all of the lines who were supposed to go to Prentiss. It was weird. One week she knows nothing, except “why families” and the next she is helping. And in this last episode, every time someone asked a question, she answered. I can’t handle the inconsistency of this character. But either way, as a no-nothing cadet, or am almost-profiler, I’m done giving this character chances.
Half a season seems like enough to me. I tried.
And now with AJ coming back, I see absolutely no reason for her to stay.
Yes, JJ is not a profiler, but she is always in the field with the rest of the team and let's be honest, she just fits. Watch the scenes in Lauren, her briefing and the scene with her, Garcia and Hotch. It felt like she never left, like she damn well shouldn’t have.
Honestly, I'm just beginning to question how much more will it take for either this character to be accepted (for me it will take forever, and that if they keep her mostly in the background), or for TPTB to understand that despise all of their efforts, this isn't working.
You tried, CBS and CM. You really did, but just like AJ, it’s time to accept.
And I hope that article is right and wrong at the same time. Right about Paget and right about Seaver leaving, but wrong about the timing. Please, let this character be gone by the end of this season. This way I'll be able to enjoy season 7 in its entirely, not like this season at all.
For those of you attending tonight's CHAT with ERICA MESSER, if you can't work the time difference, visit this website that gives you the exact Est time.
Be there before 9:00, though.
See you in there.
Did I forget to post the website? I did!
http://wwp.greenwichmeantime.com/time-zone/usa/eastern-time/
Anonymous said...
"Sameera,
Anna Fleiner, the makeup artist confirmed it on Twitter.
My guess is that it will be a brief appearance, maybe even just a phone call, to set up her re-entry in season 7."
This is what she posted:
"anna fleiner
On Monday 18th April 2011, @annafleiner said:
Not last minute at all RT @Auneb @annafleiner I saw that written also....probably a cameo though....just to show she is back...last minute write in!!"
Not last minute, huh
It is not just this forum that they base their decisions on. I think sometimes it is difficult for people to take that in as this is probably the main forum (or the only forum) they visit. I believe it is a collective sampling of reaction over different forums and mediums, and by and large, from what I have seen, there has been great anger and disappointment over AJ's dismissal and Paget's leaving, along with negative reaction to the Seaver character that has more to do with just the fact that she is there and JJ and Prentiss aren't. I believe that the reaching out to AJ gesture by the network was about appeasing fans who missed JJ. What they will do about the negative reaction circling the Seaver character is something I don't think can be said at this time. However, I do agree that the constant pushing to try and get acceptance for this character has grown weary and I don't see the benefit of continuing it any longer. Who knows what will ultimately happen.
For anyone still wondering, the guest actress' name is Amy Price-Francis.
Thanks for that information about the actresses name Anonymous.
Hotch is my favorite character. No Hotch, no CM for me. Don't make this fan wait in agony, please renew TG's contract.
lauren j.: It just dawned on me and I think you're right: the actress you found the pic of for the finale used to be blonde! I recognize her from "The Cleaner" Benjamin Bratt (another Hunka Munka-oh, yeah, are you guys seeing a pattern here?:) She was Benjamin's wife and was great. The show was really good but cancelled after only two seasons despite much critical acclaim. Bummer! But I have not seen her before otherwise.
Cindy: Missed your post before: You can count on me for the margaritas and I promise to use Patron or better! Need to give Blimey Limey enuf of a heads-up to get all the way over here from the other side of "the pond" to join us GFs! We'll have ourselves a great time celebrating JJ's return. BTW, why not invite PB? surely she would want to join us and she's only a couple hours away:)
P.S. You know where to go if anything goes awry here, right?!
This has been such a rocky season. I hope things can get back to normal with good character storylines and suspenseful cases.
I'm glad A.J. is coming back. I hope Paige comes back. But if Thomas or Shemar leave, it just seems like more of the same inconsistent storylines. It would be the end of the series for me if they leave.
Rachel... I'm sure she is a nice person, and I liked her in The Stranger, but her character just doesn't seem to fit. I'm not getting it.
I've been wanting a Derek/Penelope relationship, but as long as Shemar and Thomas get to stay, I'll be fine with no shipping.
Nichols should stay end of story.
She is now part of the family like TG said in his chat.
Anonymous, that is not what determines whether a character stays or goes or throughout the history of TV many characters would not have been eliminated/written of shows.
So, after the chat with Eric Messer, I must say I'm feeling better about next season. I feel like she really wants to listen to us and plans to make a lot of people listen to us.
More importantly, I feel like she knows and loves the show for what it was and wants to get it back there. I personally would prefer if Seaver was [nicely] written out because she doesn't fit with the show and its characters, however, I do feel that under Erica, even I could at least grow to tolerate this character.
Regardless, I am hopeful. And I, like Erica, am hopeful for Thomas Gibson's return and unless I'm told otherwise officially, I'll assume he'll be back.
So overall, I'm feeling much more hopeful about next season, and I think AJ's return is just the start of great things to come and most importantly, the return of the REAL Criminal Minds.
Any thoughts on the chat?
I got the sense that Erica is in a very tight position. There are so many what if's and don't know's that it is hard for her to say anything concretely. She is committed to the show and I do believe that she knows what the concerns are, but as far as characters coming or going, I believe her hands are tied.
It will ultimately rest with TPTB in how will go. All she can do is work with what she is given. I did get a little frustrated that the "Hard to deal with change" thing was said in regard to Seaver because it has way more than to do than just change, it is the character itself. A part of me thinks she knows that but at this point with so many things up in the air, that is all she can really offer up at this time. Again, she doesn't have control over the casting, TPTB do and my only hope is that they are paying attention to what is being said and realize that it isn't "Change is hard," but rather it is about a character change that is flawed.
I think from a writer's perspective, Seaver is a great character. Ultimately, this show is about entertainment, not realistic-ness. So the problem with bringing in yet another "experienced" agent is that it's just been done before. A rookie, realistic or not, opens so many doors for storylines. So I really understand why Messer likes the concept of the Seaver character.
And yet again more confirmation that the cast and crew seems to really have accepted Rachel Nichols into the family.
She may not have direct control over casting, but as showrunner she has a very loud voice. As was stated in the chat, across the board most fans dislike the character and want her gone.
They may try to keep her longer, which again, is even more doubtful with the return of AJ, but even then, I don't see it lasting very long if people continue to feel this way. And given that this isn't simply fans disliking change, it's a case of a poorly written character, I think at best they can only hope for the majority to "put up" with her.
I don't know what will happen, but again, I think Erica will do everything that IS in her power to bring the show back to how it was. That's enough for me right now.
Do TPTB really want to spend their money on a character that people will only, at best, "tolerate" or "put up with"? Doesn't sound like a recipe for success in my book. Better to invest the money in writers. Maybe get Andrew Wilder back.
I really enjoyed the chat. I thought Erica was sincere and she really does seem to care about CM. I thought she was a little diplomatic in a few answers but I really didnt expect anything else. I also believed her when she said she didnt want CM to just survive but she wants it to thrive. I wish her congrats and the best of luck.
Loren said...
I think Erica will do everything that IS in her power to bring the show back to how it was.
What makes you think Erica wants to put everything back the way it was? She's the showrunner now. Sounds like she wants to make a few changes.
I get what you are saying lauren J. but like Loren just said and I said, I think this is something that cannot just be brushed aside as a "okay, we'll try this and that new thing with this character," if people continue to feel this way about that character it is something that is going to be a potential thorn in a pile of thorns that she admitted she needs to clear up.
I don't think she is interested in having a character on the show that the majority (many) people will just "put up with." I think she does want to run with the show in the strongest possible light, bringing it back to where it was before. I like that the question stressed global, not just this forum, or other US ones. This is an issue.
Was rewatching last week's episode. I still feel that there is something off with the story-telling. The team narrative and the crime narrative don't seem to be well meshed - this despite the convo voice-over for the first murder. And Erin and Aaron (very interesting scene and superb acting all round) - i wish, though, that she HAD pushed that idiot to talk to someone. And even if he does know that Emily is alive, i doubt that he knows she is ok. Doyle is out there and it is clear and present danger. So obviously he is bottling up a 'few' things - if not grief, then anxiety.
And yeah i feel our dearest Morgan and Garcia could go postal on him when and if they find out.
can't wait to see AJJJ back. "...alone at the back of the plane..." - i like! not in a weird way - just that the actors do so well together.
Bring it on. i say!
Anonymous,
I'm pretty sure she made a few comments that resembled that. Either way, I was saying more so on the fact that she probably wants the feeling back. There have always been unhappy fans, but never like this. And there have been some winding roads on their end, but never like this. The show was doing exceptionally well before this season and again, they are bringing back JJ and trying to bring back Prentiss.
While I'm positive she will makes changes of her own, I personally feel like she wants the show back to normal, at least the atmosphere, because she has been with it since day one and that means something.
Again, this is how I perceived her comments.
Yes Loren, I got the same impression as you. She did make statements that resembled that and at this moment, being that things are still not concrete with TG, SM, or PB (whether she will return or not), I think she was kind of guarded in what she said because it is hard to say which is understandable given where they are at now.
http://criminalmindsfanatic.blogspot.com/2011/04/criminal-minds-exclusive-chat-with_20.html
Agreed,
And as far as her opinion on Seaver/RN goes...
I honestly have no clue, and as the showrunner, that's most appropriate. Whether she wants the character gone or not at this particular time is not really something she should discuss. She was very political with her answer: protected the writers but also said they are exploring all of the characters, which could easily go either way with the Seaver character. So, as expected of a woman in her position, she didn't not convey her feelings on the highly controversial character.
Actually, it sounded to me like she rather likes the actress and the character, but was being diplomatic about her answer so as not to rile the fans.
ALL COMMENTS ABOUT THE CHAT SHOULD BE POSTED ON THE CHAT THREAD WITH THANKS TO ERICA FOR HER TIME!!! I WILL DELETE ANY THAT ARE PUT HERE.
You're entitled to your opinion :)
And I didn't say she disliked the character, I said we couldn't really tell.
Quite possibly she does like the character but realizes it may not be possible to keep her as the overwhelming majority doesn't want her.
Again, really can't tell. Her answer was extremely political.
Yes, being that so much is still not decided, the worst thing to have done was to come out one way or the other. It is a highly controversial subject that one needs to be careful about and I think once the puzzle pieces start to come together there will be more clarity. I think she is fully aware of the issues, again, my only hope is that she realize that it is not an issue (at least for me) about the actress- never been that, or about the "Change is hard thing," which yes change is hard but change is made easier when something good and credible is put in its place. Basically, for me, and I think others, it is about the character who was ill-conceived and I think will continue to be a thorn in what could otherwise be a clear field.
Many things unknown yet, will have to see what happens.
Oh sorry, just saw that Criminal Minds Fan.
I think that the initital ideas and concept for Ashley Seaver was a great idea, it sounds great on paper, daughter of a serial killer who joins the FBI's BAU.
The problem is it didnt work becuase she was miswrtten very badly.
Yes Seaver was good in The Stranger, but one episode is not enough. I guess we will have to see.
JJ will have one scene in the finale.
Why was the Erica Messer discussion shut down? Did we do something wrong?
I don't know if keeping Seaver is now on Erica's hands.
Maybe it's more about Rachel Nichols contract with CBS.
At least that could be one of the takes on her answer about Seaver.
Which reminds me, remember when they were first saying that she was only there for 3 episodes? Then, all of the sudden, even without any of her episodes airing, she became a regular?
Maybe CBS is controlling this too, just like with AJ and Paget.
Either way, I tried with the character, but after 10 episodes, I'm done trying.
Bring AJ back, let Seaver go and let's start restoring this show from episode 7.01.
My favorite part of the chat was what she said about sitting staff and actors together to discuss the characters.
That says a lot.
And I hope it helps.
Topics I hope they discussed:
- Hotch being too much in the background.
- The secrets that went nowhere.
- Reid's headache that went nowhere.
- How to bring AJ back.
- What will happen with the secret about Prentiss (even if Paget doesn't come back)
- How about at least ONE, just one storyline for Rossi.
- The fact that Hotch has to deal with everything that has happened to him in the past 3 years already.
I cannot believe that Thomas Gibson and Shemar Moore still don't have contracts.
But I love that Thomas is saying to whomever wants to hear that he wants to come back, so if he doesn't, we will know whose fault it is. Again.
CBS, if you thought it was bad when Paget and AJ were let go (remember everybody accusing you guys of being sexists), what do you think it will happen if you let the lead actor go? What do you think it will happen if you let Shemar go?
Don't you see what keeps this show going?
Did you not get it yet?
There was a show called The Inside that was a lot like this one, didn't last.
The Spin-off is on the bubble, may not last after one season.
But this one is still going strong. You guys over there think it's because it’s a procedural? No, it's because of the characters and the cast.
If you don't believe me, take a look at the spin off and its number after only 6 episodes. If this is just about the procedural, that one should have our numbers, but it doesn't.
Validate what you have.
Respect your actors.
Earn our viewing and dedication.
Don't treat the audience as if it doesn't matter. No other network does it.
Criminal Minds is not a show that should be franchised, in my opinion.
I think that, like I said before, character development and storyline consistency is very important.
I really want to see more hand to hand and kickass action from all the characters, more espionage and CIA stuff, more about Rossi, a guest star from Gideon and Elle, but especially Gideon, more Hotch, some non cast member love interests for everyone that doesnt have one. Maybe Spencer can go out with Gina, the tech sharp? Just kidding but they deseve some love.
All of them.
I would like to know morea bout how all of them came into the FBi and how they all came to be in the BAU.
I would like to see another episode like Tabula Rasa, hopefully showing how JJ came onto the BAU.
I would like to see Rossi do something other than mentor because its honestly getting on my nerves alittle bit. I like how the team is there for each other but with Rossi, its a bit too much.
I would also like to see a CM soundtrack and some of our song suggestions playing in future episodes.
I would like to see how someone is doing after actually surviving a serial killer attacking you, maybe they can bring the girl from season 4's "Soul Mates" episode back, she did a great job.
I also want to see Jordon Todd return in some capacity, not as a replacement but as a guest star. Also, I like Keven and Garcia's sweet momnets together. I want to see what everyone else's homes look like as well.
In the end, whether or not Rachel stays on the show or not, is CBS's decision. It certainly wasn't the show's decision to fire AJ and Paget last summer. The network controls the contracts for the actors, so the actors are beholden to the network to pick up their contract option every year. And as we saw, sometimes they don't.
I wonder when the writers are going to show us Ashley's "unique perspective", because they certainly haven't so far. Or if they have, I am curious what they think they've written that's shown this side of her, because it's nothing that jumps out at me so far. Nothing Ashley has contributed can be attributed to her upbringing. It's all basic profiling knowledge anyone would pick up by reading the textbooks.
CMFan, I couldn't see any chat thread...? I hope my comment won't be out of place here.
LaShawna, A., Caridad, & others: thanks for making clear the distinction between giving the actress a hard time (something that's done more on other forums than here, I think) and disliking the character she plays.
Sameera said: "TPTB I'm sure at this point know what some people's issues and concerns are"
gubegirl said: "there is NOTHING left that has not already been addressed. So it can go unsaid for the time being and we just trust that the proper steps will be taken, SOON."
I am actually not so sure of this after reading the transcript of the Erica Messer chat. Her take on fans' disapproval of the Seaver character seems to trace it all back to bad feelings about & not accepting the change caused by JJ &/or Prentiss' departures. I guess there's just a finicky part of me that would like to feel certain TPTB understand that some fans' (mine, certainly) main concern about Seaver is her qualifications... That said, it seems CM will be in very attuned & capable hands under Messer, which can only be good for the show.
Thanks too to the blog admin for making the transcripts available!
Aloha :) I was wondering if there is an address where we can send fan letters too?? I live in Hawaiʻi and I would love to mail the Cast a box of pineapple or chocolate covered mac nuts or kona coffee???
If anyone has the address please let me know :)
LaShawna, I too would like to know when that "unique perspective" is that she said that Ashley has is going to be shown because thus far it has been things one can glean from a textbook, not anything from her upbringing which since she said was normal and happy I wouldn't know what if anything can come from that. More important, at this point, for some (forgive me, I would even venture to say many) it will be a case of a little too late or "yeah right." I think they have tried so many ploys with this character, tried to pull so many rabbitts out of the hat to get people to like and accept this character and to paint her in a way that she seems extraordinary and worthy of a spot on the team even though she has no experience or qualifications to do so, that yet another "show" of these "abilities," in the very least for me, will just be another one of those ploys, rabbits. Add me to the list of individuals who have grown weary of such tactics. With Prentiss and Rossi there wasn't a need for such tactics, they were thrown in with the experience and qualifications they had to be there, and sank or swam on that. It wasn't a barage of "Hey, you see what they can do," no it was "Oh, look what they are doing which is what they should be and can be doing based on their experience and qualifications." With Reid it was that "wow" factor because Reid is extraordinary, and his genius is something worthy of that "wow" and a spot on a team that delves into minds. The way it was worded by Erica was as something that has already shown itself, the "unique perspective" and if that is true, I think it has been a fail. If it hasn't, I think it is going to be another season of pouring it on thick but in a different way that is, again at the very least for me, going to be weary.
continued,
Asian Fan, I don't think you are being finicky. When she gave her take on the character my mind instantly flashed back to Ed B. What she said was almost identical to what he said "Change is hard," people don't like "change," which at that time he could have gotten away with saying because it was, I think, shortly after the characters first/second episode. Now to say that is to ignore the volumes of comments that people have given with regard to that character that stretch way beyond "change is hard." The overwhelming majority of comments that I've seen here do not even mention change, they go to the show's history, what the show has stressed, what would be needed to be part of the team, expectations placed on the other experienced female profilers that made it tough on them to be accepted by characters like Hotch and Gideon (that seemingly don't apply to someone who doesn't have any experience or qualifications), etc., etc., etc. It is all here to see, so, either she hasn't seen them which I don't believe is true, or that is really the only answer that she could give at this moment being that, as LaShawna pointed out, TPTB will make the final decision about that character and nothing is clear at this moment about that situation. As others have pointed out, it was a very PC answer which under the circumstances is more than understandable and expected. However, I think you are right, or maybe it was Loren who said it, if one has an issue with the character one cannot assume that TPTB have gotten it (and trust is not something I would grant to the network now after everything that has happened- in my case, that has to be earned back) or that there is nothing left to say. Silence is a way for them to equate, in some instances, that people have resigned themselves to a matter, don't care, or are okay with it; some have, others haven't. Bottom line, if you have an issue, you should voice it, especially if her comment at all reflects what some may feel is the issue with the character, the change is hard thing. Your also correct Asian Fan in saying that the attacking of the actress is rarely done here, but at other sites, whoo, it is done, along with bringing up the issues with the character. To be fair, more bringing up the character, but certainly nothing here rises to the levels I have seen elsewhere with regard to the actress herself.
Lastly, I was a little scared that she brought up whether people like the guest stars or not. I understand why she did, but I really wouldn't like to see a return to the unsub/guest star focus we have seen played out much of this season. Back when I believe the show's writing was at its strongest, the unsubs/guest star were not people that, I think, many would instantly recognize, but the writing was so strong that it didn't matter. The writing hooked you from the start and I wish there were a way to get some of the old writers back, or get people who can write in that way on the show.
I know a lot of people are focusing on what EM said about Seaver, but I think people should be more focused about reading between the lines of her question about the guest stars.
Using guest stars is a ratings trick. L&O:SVU uses this trick all the time. Why do you think they had AJ on? To bring over all the disgruntled CM viewers. It's a way to bring viewers to the show who don't normally watch the show.
CM has used this trick from time-to-time. Frankie Muniz, Gavin Rossdale, most recently Kelli Wiliams, etc. It's starting to get more frequent. The fact that EM is wanting to know how that's going over should be like a siren to you guys. Definitely be on the lookout for a season 7 chock-full of guest stars.
Okay folks, here's my hopes for season 7:
* Give TG & SM the decent contacts they deserve - Nuff said.
* More consistently good writing - Characters being in character, sub-plots affected individual characters resolved, etc.
* More whodunnit episodes - Rather than knowing who the unsub is literally from the first second.
* More Hotch - Both on screen and with his character development. He's burying a lot of stuff, that's not a healthy thing to do...
* More back story on Rossi - We don't really know *that* much about him.
* Reid's headaches - If it's not resolved this season then it needs resolving at the start of next season. Please let's not have a repeat of the drugs "Is he or isn't he?" thing.
* Come up with a decent storyline to explain JJ's return - I'm glad to see her back though!
* Prentiss - I'd love to see PB return - and the resulting fallout among the team if she does. And don't forget Sergio too!!
* Seaver - Tricky one... while I'm not keen on the character (in terms of being a realistic addition, rather than her personality) I'd hate to see RN get shafted by CBS. Move her to the spin-off?!
* Episode "locations" - It sounds silly, but while I appreciate many cases are based in LA, Washington, etc because they're big cities (so therefore you'd expect more crimes correlating with a larger population) it would be nice to see the team go to more "random" smaller places. I do appreciate the cost of actually filming on location, but they could at least pretend the LA neighbourhood they're filming in is a couple of time zones away! That's just one of my little whims, btw.
* A free bottle of Patron sent over if they use any of my ideas. ;-))
@ Gubegirl - only $15 for a bottle in your local shop?! It works out ~$65 per (silver) bottle over here if my mathS ;-) is correct. For the sake of my bank balance I'll stick to tea...
I personally would rather them go back to the way they used to write episode than trying to counterbalance it with huge guest stars. Don't get me wrong I'm not complaining about the guest stars. I'm just saying that I liked it even without the huge guest stars. They have a great story telling ability that I don't think it should matter as much who they bring in as a guest star. If they could do both (bring in huge guest stars and keep the same standard of writing) that would be perfect. I may be way off here but that's just something I found this season.
Also, I would love to see season 7 deal with all those loose story lines from this season. Especially Reid's headaches. I would love to see them catch Doyle even if Paget doesn't come back. They could even bring back Sebastian Roché. Just spit balling here.
I think I mentioned this in the thread from last episode and it's still going to sound pretty random. I think they should do a contest for the fans to create an unsub to be used on the show. I know it's a long shot but it could be fun!
Honestly...I liked JJ and Prentiss, but I was able to get over their departure pretty quickly. I actually like Seaver, and I think CBS should just stick it out. If they get rid of Rachel to bring back Paget and AJ, I think it makes CBS look really bad. Kind of like what NBC did to Conan.
I do appreciate the cost of actually filming on location, but they could at least pretend the LA neighbourhood they're filming in is a couple of time zones away!
All of the episodes are filmed in the Los Angeles area. Nothing is ever filmed on location so they consistently make LA neighborhoods look like they're filming a couple of time zones away.
I think the child rapist/murderer who got away this season needs to show back up next season.
I also think that they need more episode where they fail. I thought that "25 to Life" would've been so much more interesting if Morgan had been wrong about the guy that got paroled.
I also think that they need more episode where they fail. I thought that "25 to Life" would've been so much more interesting if Morgan had been wrong about the guy that got paroled.
This. Profiling is notorious for resulting in wrongful arrests. However, in the real world, it's usually the fault of the local misguided cops who basically use the profile as evidence of guilt (since the real BAU has nothing to do with the actual capture/arrest of suspects).
Anyway, sometimes I think this show does the characters a disservice by making their case record too perfect. Especially since profiling is not an exact science.
Lauren J,
I definitely agree with you about the guest stars. While it can be cool to have a name guest star every now and then, I don't want them to dominate over the main cast. Criminal Minds used more famous names in the early seasons on occasion, but the episode never focused on them to the detriment of the characters. As much as I love SVU, I do tire of the stunt casting where each episode is a showcase for some guest, but we get shafted when it comes to the actual stars of the show. This is the danger of having named guest stars. To justify their cost and to entice viewers, their part is so much larger. This is one of the ways we end up with unsub-focused shows, where it seems to be more about glorifying the unsub and his/her crimes rather than focusing on the methods of catching them. I would rather have them use guest stars sparingly like the early seasons and focus more on the psychological side and less on the actual unsub.
Couldn’t find the chat blog either, so sorry for addressing this here: Erica Messer’s question about how we liked the guest stars had me a bit concerned. It sounded like she wanted some kind of reinforcement to have maybe even more guest stars next season. I think CM has had many fantastic guest stars. Tim Curry, Mare Winningham, Kelli Williams to name but a few. It’s always interesting to see them, but one thing’s for sure. The bigger the guest star, the more focus they will get, which basically means less screentime for the team. I’m sure many fans and casual viewers like that, I personally prefer to have focus on the team and to witness them figuring everything out. Profiling the criminals. And I have the impression that most fans, at least most who post on this blog, see the show for the same reason. The team.
What I would like to see in season 7?
- More Hotch!!!!
- Our team from Season 3 thru 5 back onscreen. Come on give TG and SM their contract already.
- Team centric episodes with the occasional character centric episodes in between (but not to the detriment of the other characters)
- If they do character arcs, they should make sure to not drag them out too long and – first and foremost - to give them closure. We have already so many loose ties hanging around, IMO.
- Not too much focus on the unsub. Been there, done that for the last one and a half season. I don’t mind a well-made unsub-heavy episode once in a while, but that’s it.
- I agree with who suggested the child molestor from “Into the Woods” should be back
- I would love to see Clyde Easter again ;-)
- I always wondered what had become of Nathan Harris from season 2’s “Sex, Birth, Death”. Was he able to resist his urges or has he become a serial killer?
Did not get to participate in the chat so was happy to read the transcript. CMF: TY!
Erica made me feel better about some things. She seems to have her finger on the pulse of the characters & knows that consistency is important: i.e., writers conference. That's HUGE. Too bad no former writers likely to return. Bummer.
Contracts: if there was any reluctance on the part of TG to return to a show where so many good writers & 2 fellow actors who he cared about & worked with so long were shafted: that would give me pause. Does he really want to work for such fickle people despite the fanbase that loves him? Not to mention, the shortage of screen time he saw this year: how can he read that?
I agree with most of Blimey Limey's "Wish List." We would love just small peeks into our favorites' personal life: Reid's home, more on Kevin & Garcia - if they are even still together: why is Garcia hanging on Morgan and WTH is Kevin anyway? Home eating cupcakes while Garcia goes to the movies with Morgan? They need to explain that, if you ask me.
Inconsistent writing again.
Maybe Reid can suffer such a bad headache he misses a day of work and we get to see him lying on a couch he inherited from his grandfather, re-heating his coffee, watching sci-fi movies... maybe with Sergio on his lap? I could dig it.
Haven't seen Morgan's place either; for all the hints as to his "player" reputation, I wouldn't mind seeing him on a date or even on the phone with a date, just give us a little glimpse into reality, ya know? We don't need all the details or see him getting serious with anybody.
Hotch: just who is taking care of Jack ALL the time & how are they getting by? Has he had any therapy? I could totally see him covertly attending the occas counseling session & then maybe we will have some truly attractive and wise therapist make a move on him...it could happen, where else is the guy gonna find anyone?
Rossi: I would love to know more about any of his former marriages, if he has any kids, anything.
We got to see more during the first couple years of this kinda stuff: Elle & Morgan going on vacation & interacting with the opposite sex. Gideon & his date that he cooked for in the epi where each one received a pkg that was a clue to the case delivered to them personally. Reid trying to get JJ to go to the Redskin game with him. Hotch and Haley cleaning the garage, finding the hat or costume piece he kept because joining the drama class was a way to meet her...I could go on and on. I just want bits and pieces that aren't necessarily a storyline: just a look into the REAL character when not at work. May them seem more like real people to me. I'm sure you are getting that down deep, I am a true romantic, but hey, I say A LITTLE COULD GO A LONG WAY! Just tease us a little bit, OK? It's LIFE. They see enuf death, they need some life sometimes. JMHO.
Finish the open, unresolved storylines 1st, tho', like Reid's headaches. Needn't be a big deal, just not another "swept under the rug" like his drug storyline was.
Guest stars have been wonderful. I loved Keith Carradine, Tim Curry and Kellie Williams.
But many memorable epi's have featured excellent actors that we have never seen before so if this is where mucho money is going, Erica, I say, save some! Go with fewer big names. Your tried and true fanbase will tune-in and watch, believe me! We don't care who else is on the screen with our beloveds as long as they can act. Am I right, guys?
BL: I think I shall resort to packing a pitcher of Patron margaritas in dry ice & sending it "cross the pond" to you. Do you have a blender? Shall I include the salt? Do you get good limes over there, Limey girl? :)
LMK! You need to save your bucks for your trip...the one NOT to Mexico...
"Honestly...I liked JJ and Prentiss, but I was able to get over their departure pretty quickly. I actually like Seaver, and I think CBS should just stick it out. If they get rid of Rachel to bring back Paget and AJ, I think it makes CBS look really bad. Kind of like what NBC did to Conan."
Totally not the same on any level, not even close. The decision to keep the Seaver character is not one that Erica will ultimately make, that is up to TPTB. But keeping a character or not is about what the character brings to the show, what it contributes. Sorry, but I don't see that in this character, not alll, and at this stage of the game I think it is apparent that it is time to move on from that "experiment." I have nothing but respect for the actress, but the character is badly flawed, and at the risk of sounding like a skipped record, I too am tired of all these efforts to integrate someone who if they had the qualifications and experience to be there wouldn't require so much heavy lifting. First, there was the Prentiss mentoring her, thing the Rossi surrogate father type angle, then the whole TV Guide she is "Stepping up" article, none of this has changed for the most part what I've seen in terms of the perception of this character. And no, it is not about change is hard. Change is hard, but it can be valuable, in this case, I'm sorry it is not. The question that was posed a while ago in this thread is one that I too will pose, how much more pushing, scenarios, episodes, etc. are going to be done in effort to gain acceptance for this character. It is my hope that we just move on with lessons learned about what to do character wise.
Thank you Erica for making yourself available to the fans! Good luck moving forward :)
Add another thing--finish off Reid's headache story arc. What is causing them? Are they physical or mental? Is Reid headed towards a breakdown? Is the Job getting to him? What is going on?
Don't leave it hanging, like the drug addiction subplot-that's my only gripe with the show, the starting and stopping of character-based storylines.
Valeria, lauren J. and LaShawna, agree completely on the guest star point. A guest star here and there okay, but when the whole season, or a good majority of it, is guest star driven, the team gets kicked to the curb and we have an episode almost half full of the guest star. Instead of seeking all of these guest stars, I think more focus should be placed on strengthening the writing to get back the psychological aspect that LaShawna brought up. I would rather much watch that, and would be more engaged watching that then some name brand guest star that is going to be thrown into the mix far more than he or she needs to.
I don't know how much it costs to get these guest stars signed on to doing episodes, but I think if that money were used to hire strong write staff a world of difference can be made. Don't know how possible if at all it would be to get some of the old writers baack, but if that is at all possible I think it should be at least explored, imo.
When is the absolute last date that TG and SM can get contracts? Sheesh, you'd think they'd learn not to screw around with the cast.
I agree about the guest star thing. Firstly, they can detract from the team (if cast too frequently) and secondly, you can't tell me there aren't talented up & coming actors who could do just as good a job. It's like chocolate - too much of a good thing isn't always good!
I thought they filmed "The Fight" actually in San Francisco? Although I could well be wrong about that - throw in a couple of "borrowed" shots of a world famous landmark and I wouldn't have a clue if the suburbs are out of character with the actual city/town.
@ LunaM - I've often wondered about Nathan Harris. If he went on a murder spree I wonder if Reid would struggle to cope with the associated guilt I'd imagine he'd feel? Hmmmm...
Yeah, the occasional snippet of "off the clock" for each team member would be good. Not so much it eats into cases, but it's interesting to see what they're like away from work.
@ Gubegirl - not a fan of limes (oooh, the irony) unless I find a slice in my Crabbie's! And the closest I'll probably now get to Mexico is our local Mexican restaurant...
I always assumed Nathan Harris was locked away in a mental hospital. He on his way to being committed when he tried to kill himself wasn't he? I guess he could've gotten out though and went on a killing spree and Reid could blame himself for not letting him die, but geez then he would've had to live with the guilt of letting him die. I think it was a no-win situation. :b
I have an idea how to deal with the guest star problem:
If you must have guest stars, have them play other roles besides Unsubs--maybe as detectives, police officers, or victims, people related to victims, or other FBI agents.
That way, the unsub won't always hog the show if you diversfy the guest star spots to other roles.
How's that as a compromise?
So, so glad the Cook is coming back to the cast!! BUT I think that the whole thing with Gibson's charactor taking some of the responcibility might be an excuse to make his charactor less importent and less often on screen, which would be a BAD thing. Just a little hunch o mine, but I keep trying to come up with a reason behind that whole plot point.
David, do you mean the responsibility about knowing that Prentiss is alive?
I like everyone's ideas for the new season, especially less focus on the unsubs. I've never found that a big name guest star has made an episode any better for me and using them as characters other than the unsubs is a great idea.
When EM has her meeting, I think she should supply her new writers with DVDs of the early seasons especially, so they get to know who the characters are. The characters just haven't been written like they used to be, and I don't mean that every character should be. The Reid of season six is a far cry from the Reid of season one, he's grown, become more mature, but I think the writers, as with Frank, have to plot the evolution of these characters and maybe the writing won't seem so wrong.
I agree that the Seaver experiment was a failure and needs to be rectified. It's not about change, change is often good, but aside from not adding much to the team, I think this character detracts from it because many viewers, for whatever their reasons, find this character irritating and just don't pay attention to anything she does. What good is someone like that to the show. Again, this has nothing to do with RN, only Seaver.
Dori, I think the responsibility David was talking about was the responsibities Strauss has asked him to take on in her absence.
Anonymous:
I have always felt that the guest stars we have seen on CM are thrilled to do so because they are getting to play "the bad guy" (unsub) if not a psycho, and have not such an opportunity to do so before and it allows them to "stretch" their skills to do play someone not usual for them. We have seen a few interviews of guest stars and they have come across to me that way. So, I don't think being part of a family, the local LE's (even the head person) would appeal to a big start wanting to get a "fresh" experience to show their creative "psycho" chops.
What do you guys think about this? Erica's question about what we thought lends the impression that TPTB are pretty proud of having snagged sev. BIG names and are wondering if we have noticed, what we think, etc. I see this kind of thing as attracting NEW viewers, maybe following the work of that actor, not the die-hard CM fanatics that make up US.
But I do worry that hiring such big names is a drain on the budget and that doesn't even touch on the fact that they are getting more screen time than our dear ones and that never feels good. Not even if it is James Van der Beek or Eddie Cibrian or Alex Loughlin: you get what I mean.
Next chat, maybe get that addressed?
Sorry, typo, 1st paragraph: should say "would appeal to a big star" not big start! That would be TTF
(typing too fast...)
Please stop trying to make changes on the show!!! Keep ALL of the cast members and go back to profiling and not worrying about how "Hollywood" the episodes can be! I love Criminal Minds and I thought this season has been good so far but definetly not nearly as good as any of the past seasons!
In response to gubegirl's comment on my guest star solution, I was thinking more on the lines of "unsubs hiding in plain sight" or "wolves in sheep's clothing"--seemingly innocent from the start, but later turn out to be the unsub of the episode--kinda like with George Foyet/the Reaper and that professor in Corazon.
You can show the actions of the unsubs, but you don't show their FACES, to preserve the mystery of the whodunnit. I like that technique--the first time you watch, you're just watching the episode generally, but on the second go, when you know the outcome and the unsub, you can try to find the signs and clues the writer has been dangling in front of you the whole time, but you missed them on the first viewing. That's clever writing IMO.
Thanks very much for posting the Erica Messer chat. Another interesting read, which I find encouraging.
For me, and I know this isn't the majority view, I'll be glad to see the writing team work out how to answer the objections to Seaver and continue to develop the new character. There's a lot in the original conception that remains to be explored both in terms of her own development and in intra team ways too.
How many varied reactions in the general population would there be to someone whose father had been a serial killer? From a horror-chasing glamour through to moral distaste; from pity to fear or mistrust; from self-defensive resistance to wrong-headed sexual curiosity. Growing up she will have met protective warmth, rational distance, gibes and humour, those suffering guilt because they failed to defend the child, others full of recrimination because she failed to warn society ('how did she not know?'), she will probably have been asked about her father's sexual appetite (not a matter that would come easy to a daughter)...
It would be hard to be neutral to the child of a man who had been killing women for kicks all the years of her childhood. You'd expect something off her. To see something there.
Of course the BAU team is psychologically aware and not 'general population' but they are people and in whatever way those reactions are distilled by training and clarity, you'd expect to see some of them played out. In some sense perhaps heightened because these are the protectors of society. It's not a random association. It would be revealing and insightful to at least get some range of response from amongst the team. Would Garcia respond the same way as Hotchner? How about Morgan -- his father was the victim of violence, her father the bringer of it?
For this reason, I'm hoping the writers will continue with Seaver in the next season, and also because I believe it's healthy to take your own risky course.
UK viewer
PS Hey, did we ever get Rossi's secret?
We DON'T delete comments, any comments, on discussion threads. We had to close the open thread for EM's chat though due to HORRIBLE comments.
OK, thanks for the reply. But my comment wasn't horrible. I honestly don't get why it should have been removed.
There was nothing personal in it or even about existing CM episodes. I was trying to think more widely about the ways in which people in the general population would respond to the daughter of a serial killer. And then suggested that the range of response could be interesting in character terms if we saw hints of it within the BAU team. It would be hard to be neutral towards the woman's background and that could be revealing of the different outlooks of the team members. For me, there's something here that's worth developing that would enrich the show.
UK viewer
YOUR comment was not removed. I have been the moderator all morning/US evening and haven't done anything but close down the Erica Messer chat thread. Again, did NOT delete your or anyone else's comment on this thread.
OK. Computer gremlins. It was there and then it was not there. Darn computer.
:o(
UK viewer
Uk viewer, I didn't see your comment, but I'm thinking that it was not your comment that is being referred to. There seemed to be comments from before that may have led to that decision.
Do you realize that there are two pages of comments? Check page two or repost it
No, I read it here, second page, post 312, wandered off, came back and it was gone. Back to post 311.
:o(
Love the idea of re-posting!! If I could remember the gist of what I'd said from one moment to the next, let alone recall a long long rambling post, you could call me Reid!
Hoh well!
UK viewer
Ha ha.. You had a Reid stream of consciousness moment Uk viewer :)
It's Garcia I need, Anon!
Honestly, I love my luvverly macbook pro, as much as a person can love a luvverly macbook pro, but it's not to mangle posts. Or I shall take a claw hammer to its sleek lines.
But just to say here to the blog owner and the mods -- I really do appreciate this blog. The whole range of stuff you do, and the discussions you allow -- it's terrific and I'm very happy you're publishing the chats too. Interesting reading.
UK viewer
We DON'T delete comments, any comments, on discussion threads. We had to close the open thread for EM's chat though due to HORRIBLE comments
I read all of those comments. Unless I missed something, they didn't seem HORRIBLE to me. She asked fans how they felt about the guest stars and the story arcs in the chat and people were just giving her honest answers as well as comments about what they didn't like about Season 6. I doubt she is too delicate to handle some honesty and if she by chance might've actually read the comments she would've been given the opportunity to see exactly what it is about the show lately that has the fans so unhappy, most of which had nothing to do with the new character they introduced. However, it's your blog and even though I don't agree with your decision, I'll respect it. Thanks for all you do. : )
I'm dying to get a mackbook pro (too expensive right now). Are they as lovely as I imagine?
(Re macbook, I don't have one of the new ones, unfortunately. Mine is full of dog hairs and crumbs. But still going strong after three years. (Despite dog hairs and crumbs, and crucially despite me. First week I had it, I dropped it in the train station...)
UK viewer)
Wow! Just checked in and realized all the posts for the Erica Messer thread have been removed. sf81387, I read your comment and agree with you, I thought the feedback in the thread was what EM had asked for: honest, insightful and direct. I hope she's not so thin-skinned as to take all the comments personally; but would glean info she could use and dispense with the stuff she couldn't or didn't agree with.
I appreciate having the opportunity to speak freely about my favorite show; and it is not my intent to offend anyone. I believe that is the case with most who comment on this blog; but sometimes passion and strong feeling about a subject make some come on a littlel stronger than others.
I'm really looking forward to EM's tenure and took the time to let her know that. I don't know if she even cares to read the comments that we make; but it's disheartening to know that when we take the time to show our appreciation and concern; with the click of a button, it can be wiped away. Oh well...
Many of my comments were deleted, so many times that I actually started to be surprised when they weren't.
I don't see the point to open a thread free to comment, if you are going to do that, may as well just start screening the comments before they are posted.
Or just make a warning that says: if you don't agree with us or have any criticism, don't bother posting, because it will be deleted.
Congratulations to Joe Mantegna - Joe receives his star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame next Friday, April 29th and 11:30 a.m.
Well deserved and long overdue...
Yay for Joe!!! I hope there will be pictures of the ceremony posted up on the blog.
Absolutely! I never tire of seeing Joe/David Rossi....am very glad for him.
I agree with Anonymous. The amount of deletion that happens on these threads is overzealous. I'm all for censoring profanity or personal attacks on other posters, but certain viewpoints receive very rigorous scrutiny that is not applied evenly across the board.
In retrospect, Seaver being a useless character would have been less aggravating. I think what was really irksome about her is the way when she had stuff to do, it wasnt postive in anyway or it was unrealistic or rude, ie, disobeying orders and almost getting herself killer, her first scene indicated that she was a strong kickass woman but her final scene at the end of her first ep, she breaks down in public?, also, telling Spencer off, delivering profiles when she has no business doing so, all these things did not help her case.
I know that its been mentioned already but my point is, she probably would have been more accepted if she was just a background "meh" character.
Awesome that Joe M. is getting a star! He is a wonderful actor and seems to be a kind, loving, and generous person whom adores his family. I wish there were more individuals such as Joe in the industry. He is truly a class act!
I saw those pics of AJ from the season finale. SHe looks so gorgeous! I wonder if she will be replacing Strauss or anything?
I think the writers were hoping to get AJ back all along and never gave up hope like many of the fans becuase it feels like some of the past episodes, starting with Lauren were set up for an AJ return.
Obviously at the end of JJ it was set up that way, but it became more obvious once Lauren aired that AJ may be coming back full time. And she is. Very happy!
Since I was not home the nite of the chat, I did not post there but I made a point of reading the transcript and I think I checked back a least a couple times to read comments. It's hard to keep track when there are two threads open at once and I posted my thoughts about the chat on this thread.
I do not recall seeing anything that I would describe as horrible unless there was a flurry of activity immed after the last time I checked. It seemed people liked Erica and her ideas and were quite caught up in "brain-storming" with some new ideas, feeling she had invited us to do so. She certainly did seem appreciative and attentive to the fandom and thanked us for tolerating the mess that was this season.
What I'm saying is, I don't get the deletion of all the posts either. Glad this thread is still open, because the countdown to the next epi has begun: 12 more days til the next new one and 26 days til we get to see JJ again! Whoo-hoo!
I love the way the one media person put it after making comparisons of CM being like Grey's "behind the scenes" and went on to describe the re-hire of AJ and poss Paget a U-turn."
A U turn. That's all we have been asking for for months, this entire season. And looks like we're finally getting it...and least the BEGINNING of a U turn. Who knows how complete it will be?
Lovin' it, appreciate every little step in the right direction and enjoy all of you who feel similiarly.
CM and good music: Rock on!
(congrats also to JM:big smooch to you!)and CM Fanatics: pls work hard to keep this threa open; we may not get another one another 10 days or so...)
Has anyone ever seen a picture of Rachel and Paget together? I have only ever seen one, the one with the two of them and Joe Mantegna and I think berneros in the background doing a goofy, guns up style pose. Nothing other than that.
Please let me know if there are any links to any Paget and Rachel photos.
Ashley Seaver will develop into a great character, got no doubt in my mind.
Because RN is a teriffic actress,and the CM writers is awesome.
Congratulations Joe! Well earned and well deserved star!
Hi I like CM
There was a great clip on youtube but can't find it anymore.
Shemar is giving Rachel a big kiss, and Paget is laughing next to them. If anyone can find that clip it will be greatly appreciated
THE THREAD FOR ERICA MESSER WAS FOR PEOPLE TO THANK HER FOR COMING TO CHAT AGAIN. IT WAS NOT OPENED FOR GENERAL DISCUSSION OF THE SHOW, COMPLAINTS OR THE REALLY NICE ONE WHICH STATED THEY HOPED I DIED FROM MY CANCER SOON.
IT WAS TO THANK HER FOR HER TIME!
Oh my God!!! Criminal Minds Fan, I am so sorry that was said to you, that is unspeakably horrible. WTH is wrong with people!
There's another thing I'd wondered about Hotch. Surely whenever he takes his shirt off, etc he can't help but see the scars he got when Foyet stabbed him - and then remember what subsequently happened to his wife? I'm not phrasing it very well, but with such a vivid visual reminder EVERY day, there can only be so long he can bury everything that's happened to him over the past couple of seasons.
This is something I'd like to see dealt with next season; I think Rossi managed to get Hotch to show a glimpse of how he's really feeling when they talked in the office a couple of episodes back. However, I'm assuming Hotch feels that because he's the chief he's got to stay strong for the rest of the team? I'm not saying I want him to go into meltdown, but I think it would be interesting to see Hotch actually deal with his grief/guilt, rather than compartmentalise in a way which puts Prentiss to shame. ;-)
Fabulous news about JM getting his star - I'll visit that instead of going to TJ (been doing more research), so as to keep Gubegirl off my case ;-))
Hi UK Viewer - Hope you're enjoying the weather?! Haha...
Jill, I'm truly sorry that you have to deal with that kind of small-mindedness; and I hope you know that your efforts to make this blog, the chats and all things CM available to us are greatly appreciated.
You are a blessing to us and your graciousness knows no bounds. Please know that are hearts and love are always with you; and those who would show such cruelty usually wind up reaping what they sew.
Stay strong!
CMF - Bloody hell, that's terrible. Is there any way you can get the IP address(es) of anomymous people who post such nasty things and block them? Spineless tossers...
I'd like to thank you for hosting this blog (a source of mostly civilised conversation) and providing the chat transcripts - as well as thanking cast & crew for taking the time to participate.
Kimberly i think this is what you mean
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31jfIRlg0NI
That is sick CMFB. can understand you deleted that. Just horrible
Jill,
That is an absolutely awful thing for someone to say to you. I'm sorry you had to read something like that. I hope you have a wonderful weekend and I wish you good health and happiness.
It's unfortunate that someone chose to post such a thoughtless comment. I'm sorry and I hope you didn't let it hurt you.
Criminal Minds Fan,
like previous posters, I am sorry that someone saide that to you as well. I hope all the best for you. My mother has cancer and i know that its different for everyone and how their life is.
Thank you for this site and this blog.
Love the phot of AJ,Kirsten and Paget on the site under BEst News Ever. It really is the best news ever in tv show land.
Where is that phot from?
Jill, Let me apologize for the selfish, immature ignoramous who would venture to such a thing. I hope you know how much we appreciate all that you do and the majority of us here are doing all we can to maintain good sense and decorum. While sometimes we spot an insulting or truly detrimental remark and can't resist commenting to put the guilty poster down or in their place, it can incite more negativity as I believe these kooks are looking for attention. Bad attention is better for them than no attention at all and they are truly messed up people.
Out thoughts and prayers are with you. I have several friends with cancer currently and knowing what they have to endure would be enough to put these sick minds in their place. Again, please accept our sincerest apologies for this bad situation. We totally understand and trust that when you have to take these steps, that it is necessary.
It's really a shame, because it's these kinds of incidents that ruin it for all of us. We do not want to have this blog become like others that the ranters go nuts on. We will do our very best to encourage good behavior and to IGNORE idiots like the ones you have had to deal with when you are trying to do a good thing here.
Hugs to you:)
Thanks for hosting the chat and posting it for us! Thanks to Erica and Thomas for taking the time to chat with us!
Really great news for Joe M well deserved sir.
Just read that Season 7 for CM has been confirmed…way to go everyone involved in making my favorite show. Congratulations to ALL!!
Now, let’s get the contract negotiations for TG and SM resolved; we want our guys back for S7 and beyond!
Thank you CM fanatic for the transcript of the chat with Thomas and Erica ! Do you post the one with Paget too ?
And also thank you for this site and this blog, I really love the new picture of the girls they are so beautiful, where did you find it ?
How sad that someone would say something so incredibly foolish and sickening to you Jill. I hope that those words did not hurt or dampen your spirits. I think I can speak for many here when I say that we are so very grateful for everything that you do here. I'm sure that you do so much more than we can even imagine. Thanks to you and all the people who help you for creating such a wonderful site and for setting up the various chats that you do. You are in our thoughts Jill.
Take care and be strong. Hugs!!!
Jill,
I'm sitting here bawling because you had to read something like that. I'm so sorry you were subjected to something so horrible and, yes, you had to shut it down. Please realize that it was one thoughtless person and that we all so appreciate what you do for this site and our enjoyment. We treasure you.
Best wishes and prayers Jill.
I've only posted once before but have read a lot of the comments. Does that make me a lurker? I started watching CM early last summer at the suggestion of a freind. She now says that she's created a monster. I got totally caught up, via ION and DVD's from the library, before Season 6 started. The first 4 seasons were so good, I still enjoy watching the episodes. Season 5 was mostly good: just quite a few episodes that were not quite so compelling. My favorite characters have always been Reid and Garcia but I have a huge thing for TG. Partly, it was realising that this was also Greg Montgomery that got me so hooked. But what was really compelling was the storylines, the team interaction, the profling, the ensemble cast.
Then came Season 6. I have been in mourning thinking that I will not be able to continue watching. I have not enjoyed the Seaver character and resented the manipulation I felt to accept her as part of the team. In spite of TG's request for that acceptance I just can't; I may love you Thomas but I do have creative opinions.
I'm happy that AJ is coming back but have to admit to being conflicted. Is this truly a good, creative decision or just keeping fans happy? That may not necessarily be for the best. Hate to even think this never mind write it, because I hated that they got rid of JJ and Emily. However one reality I have to face is that if they come back it may be because they didn't get anything else. I would love to see them as successful actors who could get parts.
This brings me to TG. Am I the only person who wonders what it means that Hotch will be "supervising other units" according to his conversation with Strauss? Might this mean a reduced role for Thomas? I know I often get the wrong end of the stick so would love to hear from others on this subject. I know he says he wants to come back but perhpaps he knows more than he's letting on. He's good at deflecting, a skill I actually admire given the public nature of his life, but I can't help but wonder...... Would I watch if he wasn't there all the time? Not sure, the writing would have to be very compelling.
OK, sorry for going on. I'll call a halt.
Oh, how awful. Thank you for giving us this forum to have such fun as CM fans. Sending you good energy
That last Annonymos comment was from me. Once again thank you for this forum
I disagree about silencing anti-Seaver sentiments. Silence = consent. It's telling CBS you're adjusting to her, since they can no longer hear you complaining. I plan on continuing to let my voice be heard. No way do I want to give CBS *any* reason to justify keeping Seaver for any longer than the S6 Season Finale.
lauren j. said...
FWIW, Paget said that it took about 6 months for the fans to accept Prentiss. And Prentiss stepped into a far less volatile situation than Seaver did.
I'd be really shocked if this was a comparable situation. Prentiss may not have been received well initially by fans on the fan boards, but that's not the same as what's going on with Seaver. Not only is the anti-Seaver sentiment completely universal no matter where one seems to go in regards to CM, but more and more "casual" viewers are voicing their opinions via twitter, facebook, etc. than they did when Paget premiered.
And it's the sentiment of the casual viewer that's gonna make or break Seaver, not the fringe of the fringe diehards that post at fan forums. And so far? The casual viewers seem to either hate her with a passion, are completely bland on her, or still confused as to why she's on the show in the first place. Not a good position for her to be in.
lauren j. said...
I think from a writer's perspective, Seaver is a great character. Ultimately, this show is about entertainment, not realistic-ness. So the problem with bringing in yet another "experienced" agent is that it's just been done before. A rookie, realistic or not, opens so many doors for storylines.
Personally, I think you'd have more of a point if they weren't currently writing all of Seaver lines and actions as things that could easily be given to Paget, AJ, or pretty much any other character on the show . So Seaver's "uniqueness"? Not so much IMO.
And oh, so sorry about the horrible comments you got Jill. I hadn't read up to that point yet when I made my last comment.
Sorry again, and thank you very much for all you do.
Teresa H. said...
Might this mean a reduced role for Thomas?
I'm starting to get worried about that too. The only way a reduced role for TG would be acceptable to me is if he was involved in the show some other way, like director or producer or writer or what have you. Otherwise, reduced Thomas screentime would piss me the hell off!! Just like they did to Paget, reduced her episodes!!! What the hell. And Teresa, I agree about all the other stuff you said too.
Blue: I have the same concern but see things going in the right direction and am willing to be patient. But not silent. It's time for a different approach, though, to say what we're trying to say. I think it can be very simple. We don't need to go on and on and on, using lengthy paragraphs citing specific, albeit petty, comments, actions, expressions, etc. that RN may make as Seaver. I can't even imagine coming up with more things to complain about and it has become very tiring.
I'd like to look forward to and discuss the upcoming new epi's as they air, praise what's great about them, make as many remarks as we like about our fave team members, plotlines, etc. as usual and then, MENTION that we still do not accept Seaver. Period. Any chance we can do that? We have run into much negativity amidst ourselves on this blog and I truly wish we could find a way to preclude anymore of that. How about doing a "U-turn" here and go back to being nice. Honest. But nice.
Any other ideas? Anyone? Anyone?
I can understand what lauren j said about entertainment over realness, and of course, this is true. Artistic or dramatic license is used all the time. If this show centered on total realism, it's doubtful that Reid would be a part of the team either. I think the difference is that MGG was able to pull the role off so brilliantly that he made us believe it. So far RN hasn't. Although I appreciate and respect TG's plea for support of RN, I also realize that we have all probably been in situations where we have a co-worker who is very nice, yet isn't getting the job done but you stick by them anyway because you like them. I resent ploys by the writers and pleas by the cast to try and guilt me into accepting a character I don't think fits the show and has no chemistry with the team.
I agree with Bluesunflower and others who say that if we lay off RN/AS that CBS will look at this as acceptance and I don't want that to happen.
Believe me gubegirl, I'd love to never have to bring up this character again and if CBS gets the message, perhaps we won't have to and we can go back to loving the show and the characters like we did for the first five seasons.
I personally believe a character like Seaver would have worked well for more conventional shows like NCIS or CSI, but not for CM where a set of 'rules' had been established since the beginning due to the unique method they used and the extreme nature of the cases they deal with..... those 'rules' are neccesary to ensure effectiveness and safety of the team.
I can only say that "The Stranger" actually reinforced my belief that the Seaver character is not working for this show.... Hotch risking more lives bringing Seaver in to do a job he's an expert at after the unsub agreed to let HIM in, alone, was the latest glaring result of trying to make her looks useful!
I think the writers pretty much wrote themselves into a corner with Seaver. 10 episodes in and they still need to step up their effort to justify her place in the BAU.... what does that say about the character? They never need to do this with Prentiss and Rossi.
All you do Blue Sun is complain, and i myself is getting tired of it.
It is really getting very old now. Lets just see how she does in season 7. I have already accepted her, and i got no problem with her, and in the stranger episode, she showed her progesssion is on the right way.
I like her.
Lone, Blue's post is in reference to the points that another commenter poster brought up. This is a discussion thread to talk about different elements of the show as well as to speak on, if one cares to, the points that others brought up. As long as the discussion is done in a respectful way, there should be no problem in bringing this or other matters up.
Blue, Pat and the most recent Anonymous (above Lone) I agree with you and you've stated what I would in a much better way.
Although I appreciate and respect TG's plea for support of RN, I also realize that we have all probably been in situations where we have a co-worker who is very nice, yet isn't getting the job done but you stick by them anyway because you like them.
I have been in that situation, and usually you try to find vague and ambiguously nice things to say about that person. Something like "Oh we just love her and she's such a great person to be around." You don't say that that person is doing her job "with professionalism and talent" if you don't think it's true. It's clear to me that TG thinks RN is doing a great job, and I agree with him.
Criminal Minds Fan, I also wanted to say that I was shocked and disgusted to know that someone would write something so terrible to you. I hope that you are no taking to heart what that individual wrote so callously to you. What you do at this blog, for the fans, for the show, is incredible and very much appreciated.
Thank you very much! Best to you, take care.
lauren j., can't speak for Blue, but maybe Blue was speaking about what he or she perceived of the situation. Don't know if that is the case, but I suppose Blue will respond to that. Also, the fact that TG believes one thing in no way goes to what others think or should think just because he said that. I know that is not what you meant, I just wanted to clarify that. Like Teresa H., I too love TG, but I have my opinions about this character that I do not think is a fit for the show and that is what I have to go by although I respect him very much and appreciate that he took the time to make those and other statements in his chat.
Next week is definitely a new episode, right?
Deandra,
That's fine that you have your opinions. I wasn't talking about that. I was talking about the motivation that Pat seemed to be imputing to TG, which, given the wording of his comment, just is not really true.
I would also like to comment on Blue Sunflower's point that the anti-Seaver sentiment is "universal" anywhere you go. Frankly, online forums are a fairly small universe. Basically, we have this site, IMDB, TWOP, and CBS...am I missing any? And I would venture a guess that most members of one forum are members of another. So what you have are the same couple of hundred people posting on all the different forums. I'll be really generous and even go up to a couple thousand. Out of 14 mil viewers? That's nothing. And people who are unhappy are statistically the loudest. I have seen no indication that the "casual" viewers are unhappy, because by definition they are the ones who are not involved in the online CM universe, so how do we know what they are thinking?
I think there are forums in other countries, not sure about that, but given the wording of the question posed to Erica, I would suspect, and wouldn't be surprised that there maybe are forums situated in other countries.
For me, I think the fact that the network sought AJ back does go to the online communities, petitions, etc. that are done by a certain subset of the viewers. On some level, the voices of these individuals does make an impact and is important to the network. How they capture the "causal" viewer, I don't know. Perhaps in some way these communities represent what some of the casual viewers feel. Sample groups are just that, sample groups but there is almost always something in the sample group that can be used to link the general sample as you cannot do a sampling of the whole of the general; sort of like the census- don't know if that makes sense. However, when I read the latest article that was put up on the blog from the LA Times, it said that the network is trying to put the team back together. Why are they trying to do that if everything is fine? Also, the displeasure with AJ's firing, where are they getting the sense of that displeasure? More important, I think, why are they putting so much credence into that displeasure if it is not comng from what they would consider an important and maybe representative sampling. I believe the article, I think it was that one, said that they are trying to make a preemptive strike by attempting to restore the team to what it once was. There has to be something motivating that from somewhere to cause that, you just don't make preemptive strikes if not neccesary in my opinion. I think it said that in this article, if not a different one I read about the show.
AJ's firing had enormous backlash in the mainstream media. It was very, very bad press for CBS, especially once it started to venture into allegations of sexism.
On the contrary, the Seaver character has gotten basically no press at all.
I actually agree with Blue Sunflower that Twitter might be a more representative sample of casual viewers. In fact, if you search for "Seaver" on Twitter there are some negative comments (a couple of them made by recognizable members of this forum), but actually the positive comments outnumber the negative.
Yes, it did receive bad press in the main stream media, but my point is, that if everything moved along as they had planned, having the Seaver character come in and "fill" if you'd like the gap left by JJ and now Prentiss, there wouldn't be a need to seek AJ out. The show would have gone on as it is now. Sure, you may have had some people say things about sexism, there will always be people saying something about that, but that still would not have driven them to seek AJ out; and to some extent, the sexism allegations would have died down as they did with CSI.
Also, by interview that RN did with TV Guide, the network and the show know that the viewers have not received this character well. A good portion of the issues, certainly not all of the issues, with that character were outlined in that article and were supposedly to be tackled in "The Stranger" episode (I personally don't believe they were and like others am sick of the ploys). That interview spoke volumes to me because they know there is something amiss and had to address it in that interview regarding that character. How do they know things are amiss? Why the need to address it if this group is not representative or important?
I assume they are looking at things like Twitter, I guess, but there must be other things that they are taking into consideration that I believe don't bode well for that character.
RN is here to stay- Like Gibson said she is part of the family now,and has been welcomed as such
Turned on the radio at 7 AM and what's on but Tom Petty's, "Here Comes My Girl." Took me back immed. to the CM epi, "Soulmates" with the 2 sicko neighbors using this song to signal each other when they had captured a new girl. Probably will always think of CM when I hear this song..there are many like that: Lifehouse's "Broken" from Damages where we see all our team going home to empty places; "The Riddle" from Five for Fighting, played in both Fisher King II and Profiler, Profiled (Morgan's best epi, I think.) Then there was "Home" by Daughtry - love his voice, and Ray LaMontagne's "Let it be me" from the epic "JJ" from earlier this season - makes me tear up just thinking about it.
I wish I could help to choose the music for CM. I would work for free...
Anon: unfortunately, we do not have a new epi until 5/04, but then the rest are new: 5/11 and the 5/18 finale that they are finishing shooting next wk to squeeze JJ back in there:)
Guys, do you think we could at least agree that complaining about Seaver's character be done in a more brief, perfuntory manner? You know, the facts, just the facts, not all the heat and emotion and strong words that get the RN fans calling the rest of us "haters?" I really do dislike that and find it offensive and I don't think I'm that thin-skinned.
I think getting AJ back is HUGE and they ARE listening. And I think that from here on out, they will pay better attention. Maybe we won't have to yell so loud? Just be honest and frequent on this blog?
Go ahead, let me have it. Lambaste me if you must.
RN herself can't confirm if she is coming back or not. There are a lot of things still up in the air with the show. There are a lot of things for the network to consider in deciding whether her character returns or not. I'm hoping that it doesn't bring back the character for all the reasons people have said here, but that is a wait and see thing with the network. They are the ones that have the final say.
I'm estastic that AJ is coming back!!!!!!!! MGG, JM, and KV will also be back because their contracts are not up yet. Well, KV's was, but she re-signed earlier when she signed onto the spin-off. We are not even clear about what is going on with TG and SM. I hope they will be back, but will not start clapping for joy until I get confirmation about that which I really hope will be soon. They better come back!!!
Hope that Paget comes back, but support her all the way with her pilot :)
gubegirl, I think that is a good idea.
Wow, no new episode until 5/04. Why such a gap? I feel like there have been a lot of reruns this season. Maybe that is just me though.
I wonder if the season finale will somehow tie in JJ returning. I'm thinking that it will and that is why she will be in it, even if briefly.
Before some other detail-oriented Fanatic catches it, let me correct myself: "Broken" by Lifehouse was in the S3 epi, Scared to Death. There is an epi named Damaged, also in the same season, and I always put the song together with that epi because they sing "I am damaged at best...as you've already figured out..." Sigh.
I would rather talk music. Can you tell? If you guys don't jump in here with some more ideas, I guess I will have to be making the remaining choices myself in order to send off our request for a CM soundtrack. I would love to do it by the end of this season. Maybe CBS is in more of a listening mode right now?
What is on the list now gubegirl?
I think no new durin pre-Easter and post Easter week...think it's kinda standard. Will pull my notes and get back to you. Maybe it's time you see what we have on it? I will only get the already used songs for you - I'll be back in a little bit. Must go have coffee with a friend!
Criminal Minds Fan we love everything you do here!!! Block out the cruelty said to you and know that we wish nothing but good health and success for you.
The proposed songs list for CM soundtrack so far:
Doctor my Eyes-Jackson Browne: S1x3&20
Illabye-Tipper: S1x7&8; S5x16
The Scientist-Coldplay: S1x16
The Riddle-Five for Fighting: S2x1&12
The Funeral-Band of Horses: S2x15
Make a Memory-Bon Jovi: S3x2
Broken-Lifehouse: S3x2&3
The Moment I said it-Imogen Heap:S3x5
When the Man comes Around and Hurt by Johnny Cash: S3x16
Rock N Roll Train by AC/DC: S4x1
here Comes my Girl-Tom Petty: S4x12
Let it be Me-Ray LaMontagne: S6x2
These are the ones I have noted; my apologies to an I may have missed: refresh me! For those of you who want to offer any more, pls do so. You may go to criminalmindsfanwiki.com for complete list of songs acc. to episode. DVD's in many cases do not always contain same song as original - probably due to issues like copyrights or residuals/royalties or whatever.
Rock on, people!
How about "I'm going home" by Chris Daughtry from the About Face episode.
Lone said...
All you do Blue Sun is complain, and i myself is getting tired of it.
If you don't like my comments, then learn to scroll past them. Scanning's a skill they taught you in school.
lauren j. said...
Deandra,
That's fine that you have your opinions. I wasn't talking about that. I was talking about the motivation that Pat seemed to be imputing to TG, which, given the wording of his comment, just is not really true.
I would also like to comment on Blue Sunflower's point that the anti-Seaver sentiment is "universal" anywhere you go. Frankly, online forums are a fairly small universe. Basically, we have this site, IMDB, TWOP, and CBS...am I missing any? And I would venture a guess that most members of one forum are members of another. So what you have are the same couple of hundred people posting on all the different forums. I'll be really generous and even go up to a couple thousand. Out of 14 mil viewers? That's nothing. And people who are unhappy are statistically the loudest. I have seen no indication that the "casual" viewers are unhappy, because by definition they are the ones who are not involved in the online CM universe, so how do we know what they are thinking?
We have twitter, facebook, friends, etc etc.
But by far and away, the casual viewer posts on the news articles - and they are decidedly anti-Seaver. I used to see this all the time with Charlie on Lost. The forums hated him, but when you went to the news sites, they were full of love - which was reflected in the media as well. TVGuide, E!Online, Deadline Hollywood, TVLine, independent papers and smaller sites, etc etc. If there's an article that mentions CM, you can be sure it's full of anti-Seaver comments.
lauren j. said...
lauren j. said...
AJ's firing had enormous backlash in the mainstream media. It was very, very bad press for CBS, especially once it started to venture into allegations of sexism.
On the contrary, the Seaver character has gotten basically no press at all.
Actually, in the scheme of things, AJ's firing really didn't. Her rehiring certainly isn't. AJ's firing really didn't seem to get out there to the general public, and AJ's rehiring has made only about a little over a dozen main media articles. While yes, the reporters know about it (and hammered Nina Tassler), it really wasn't picked up all that much.
CM in general isn't written much about - although when it is, it tends to be full of comments. Entertainment Weekly was apparently surprised by the 20 pages of comments it got when it finally reviewed an episode (the one with Adrienne Palicki). So I'm not surprised they're not mentioning anti-Seaver hate - especially since they pretty much ignore the fact she's on the show at all.
lauren j. said...
In fact, if you search for "Seaver" on Twitter there are some negative comments (a couple of them made by recognizable members of this forum), but actually the positive comments outnumber the negative.
First off, your search probably only yielded about 10 results max. Second, most comments about Seaver don't mention her name. They're mainly "new girl" or worse. And it's pretty much ALWAYS worse. Trying following criminal minds or #criminalminds - particularly when an episode with Seaver in it airs.
Deandra said...
Also, by interview that RN did with TV Guide, the network and the show know that the viewers have not received this character well.
Oh yeah, that's another indication. Like I was saying about Charlie - the general public love was reflected in the media. So if a big place like TVGuide can comment on it, that shows that the ones who *do* have their pulse on the fans has picked the anti-Seaver sentiments up as well.
Sorry for the many posts, but for some reason I'm doing things oddly today.
My last point is this: it's also estimated that for every 100 commentators, approximately one person writes in a letter to the network. I know I have. And *that* is a major indicator as well.
Anon: Mentioned the Daughtry "Home" song in my prev post this AM but forgot to add it to the list. Thanks.
Also will add "Heroes" by David Bowie from S3x9, Penelope, when Kevin and Garcia meet.
On a sidenote, I think that there is less fanfare about JJ returning and more about illwill toward Seaver because it is the nature of the beast: people gravitate toward bad news rather than good news. Sad but true. But WE are all ecstatic that AJ is returning and we're the ones who matter - we're the ones who clamored for her her re-hire. I'm happy.
I no longer care if RN stays or not. I am just glad that AJ is back becuase she is symbolic of the BAU family and I am really excited to see what her new stryline will be.
I am not too worried about TG and SM becuase I believe they will come back for sure and that CBS ppl just never grew out of high school.
AJ is back and she deserves to be back more than anything. If Seaver stays, then just make her character less annoying, recurring status would be best for Seaver.
AJ is back though and once TG and SM sign their contracts officilally, all is well.
Gubegirl, the cm soundtrack could still use a few more songs.
Make tomorrow by Peter Gabriel should be one of them.
Yeah seaver can stay
she is actually pretty good.
I believe she will only get better in time. JJ is coming back yeah also to that!
IMO they should just move past Seaver and work with what it looks like they are setting up JJ's return and maybe Paget's. It just seems to me that the Seaver character is just more trouble than its worth and that it is time to move past this and get back to the roots of the show. If a new character is needed because Paget is not returning, then keep in my mind the roots of the show in the creation of that character. I am not the one in charge so just that is just my two cents.
Shouldn't the soundtrack idea go through Messer as she would probably be the one that would choose what from that list would be best to spotlight the show? Maybe she has ideas herself, would be interesting to find out if she does.
Is there any possibilty of the blog putting up pictures of MGG's movie premiere?
gubegirl I'd love to help on the music thing but, like I said, old here. I only know about three of the artists on that list. One song I really love was I think at the end of Aftermath, Hallelujah by Jeff Buckley.
If Paget doesn't come back, one song I thought might be nice at the end of an ep, when they've finally accepted their loss and have a drink to toast Emily is (remember I'm old) Johnny Rivers' Into the Mystic.
You've got a good list there though.
My opinion stands on how Seaver is never going to be a good fit for this particular show, she has no chemsitry with anyone other than MGG, her character is basically a fool and has nothing to really contribute.
That said, AJ/JJ is back and i dont really want to mess with Karma again. Beisdes its not up to us really. We tried and we tried and AJ is back thankfully.
But I think there would be too much guilt involved.
Right now, I am hoping for Thomas Gibson and Shemar Moore to be officlaly signed and I really hope that Erica Messer revitalizes CM to what it used to be and beyond.
Donald: I had suggested that someone ask Erica (in the chat) her thoughts on a soundtrack for me the other nite: do not think anyone did. Hope that Jill or someone in the know will help guide us with this to the best person. We are serious. CM has had some great music and we would love to have it made into their own soundtrack, like Grey's or one of the other shows; like maybe music from Seasons 1-5 or 6 whatever.
Pat: will add Hallelujah (Jeff Buckley, S2x5), you or someone had sugg that before, and Optika, will add Make Tomorrow (S1x10) because anything by Peter Gabriel rates in my book.
Yes, we need more suggestions: there will be some that don't make the cut with:
1.) bloggers/voters here?
2.) CBC/Erica/TPTB/ Fantini music guys?
3.) $$: Royalties, residuals, licensing, etc.
So, I think we need at least twice if not three X what we have here to make it worthwhile.
So, pls go to the CM wiki website I mentioned before and check it and post your faves here! Mention the season and epi if you do that to save me a minute, would you? Am busy doing early prerp on tomorrow's dinner...:)
And Pat: stop calling yourself old, GF, turn on your radio and start jazzercising! It works for me! Right now, I have the cable adult alternative on in the fam rm (seeing it on screen keeps me in touch with artists/titles) while the local FM station playing in the kitchen. I crank up whichever when I hear one worth dancing to (it's called "multi-tasking" and we women do it well.) Makes my recipes more exciting, too...:)
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