Criminal Minds spoiler thread for "Valhalla" starring Joe Mantegna, Thomas Gibson, Paget Brewster, Shemar Moore, Matthew Gray Gubler and Kirsten Vangsness.
**Beware! There will be spoilers in the comments :)
*** Thomas Gibson donated two Valhalla scripts for our ACS auctions: http://shop.ebay.com/bigcmfan1/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=
552 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 401 – 552 of 552JML,
statistics are not quite as accurate either becuase many people still do not report ANYTHING.
As for nitpicking, I've noticed Seaver's less than professional behavior on little things like that as well. If it were a real life situation or even in comparision to the other characters, you should not lean around or anything. As for her face when Hotch told her to hang up, classic Hotch thank GOD and I found it amusing.
JML, hmm, not really because I have read in articles about other shows where they have changed things like the way people dress, talk, and interact with other characters based on viewer response. Not saying that is the case here, but it has happened with other shows.
My sense is that it is not "5 minutes" she has had on screen thi spast episode, but it is something collective about the character itself that is rubbing some people the wrong way. That is my sense from here and elsewhere.
Optika, have a great time viewing the episode!
JML
Yes you are on to something here. It is really nitpicking about Seaver. She is fine.
Wow. Just wow.
God forbid Seaver SITS DOWN OR ANYTHING. Good Lord.
Garcia plays games on her FBI computer and gets hacked. Reid goes off on his own and gets attacked. FORGIVEN. Seaver goes off on her own and gets attacked? SHE IS THE WORST.
Morgan makes a sarcastic comment toward Reid every day. BROTHERLY. Seaver makes a sarcastic comment toward Reid? INAPPROPRIATE.
JJ slumps over her stack of files. SUCH A HARD WORKER. Seaver bends over her desk? LAZY.
Prentiss all of the sudden has a secret Interpol background complete with IRA terrorists trying to kill her and all other BAU agents. HEART WRENCHING DRAMA. Seaver is a rookie cadet with a serial killer as a father? UNREALISTIC.
Anything I missed? Feel free to scrutinize further.
From Englsih CM fan to sf81387 I really apprecite your comments.
I am very saddended at JJ and Prentise leaving - I was sad when Fideon and Elle left but they chose to go so you move on. I would strongly like to see the team unchanged and the two characters back for season 7 but I do actually agree with your comments that their characters weren't always well written and soemtimes they felt like gap fillers which is a shame because they had so much more to offer. I might not agree with everything but I do appreciate how well thought out and balanced your comments are. I was really surprised when I found this blog how invested fans were in what goes on . It has been an eye opener and I have been floored at times by the strength of the comments and the depth of peoples thoughts and feelings I absolutely love it. It just shows how much people need a good show with investable heros to escape into. A Bit liek picking up a really great novel and being dismayed when the story ends. You dont get shows like that often and I get that thats the reason people have so much to say about this one. Every member of the team is someones hero.
JML, why are you getting so upset over a character that you claim has had only 5 minutes of screen time? The fact is that those actions bothered some people. Just as it bothers some people that Morgan took swipes at Reid, or that Garcia is presenting cases, etc. This is not unusual. Plus, nitpicking, huh? There have been numerous posts stating why the Seaver character is not a fit. Basically, there is nothing elite or specialized about her character to be part of the team. That is just a fact based on the way she is written- a cadet.
from English CM fan - P.S yes the ring was a Claddagh - it's an Irish friendship ring - so I am guessing she got it from Doyle and there was a relationship.
Thanks for that info English CM fan! I can't wait for the Lauren episode although it will be very sad.
JML,
pot calling kettle black much? Who is nitpicking now?
I said that the actual charterization of Seaver was unrealistic considering her father is a sk. Seaver should be written as a professional, tough girl who doesnt get held up and if she does then she should fight back and defend herself instead of waiting for a resuce and crying. And I really dont think that you are actually reading my comments or anyone else's. Please read them carefully.
If i were to nitpick, I would say something about how Seaver is being styled in the same way as JJ almost, but I'm not, aside form this instance. Seaver's wardrobe is something that I actually like and is the one thing I can relate to about her. Seaver has a cool wardrobe but thats all. As for people who think that RN looks like AJ Cook,I can understand that but at the same time they do look quite different and I wont spend any time on that.
Garcia is one thing but she gets the job doen and has a lot to offer even though I am pretty sick of her at this point.
And Reid went off on his own after a couple season. Please dont count the Big Game and Revelations episodes because JJ and Reid thought they were going to speak to a witness. Not saying that you are counting them but if that is one of the incidents you are referring to then...
And again, what makes Seaver special?
I agree with Belinda, Seaver as a whole is not right for the show and is rubbing people the wrong way, not just her amount of screen time.
JML and Belinda, sorry to butt in, but I believe that Rachel Nichols was added on as a series regular before her first episode aired. The episodes was supposed to air on 8th December, while the news of her being promoted was all over the internet by the 3rd or 4th of December. You can google it if you want. I think deadline was amongst one of the first sites to report it. You can also check Rachel's twitter during that time, she was replying to all the tweets and saying how blessed she felt and how she couldn't get back to shoot more episodes(I don't blame her for being happy and celebrating a promotion) but all this leads me to believe that her only being there for 3 episodes was a farce by CBS and Ed Bernero, they fooled the viewers, she was always supposed to be a regular irrespective of the audience reaction etc.
how she couldn't *wait*
heyya, your right about Deadline, it was one of the first news outlets to report on it. A deal was being struck from before, but they presented it as a 3 arc episode thing. Typical CBS move.
heyya,
I was actually thinking that myself because everything happened way too fast. I dont blame Rachel for being happy about landing a gig on CM too. Anyone would be over the moon but they should have waited and written her differetnly. But yes, the producers lied and are not being up front.
I agree, Dori. CBS can't get any more pathetic.
Agreed Optika, her storyline actually had potential, being the daughter of a serial killer and all..but did she have to be a cadet? An experienced agent could also have been the child of a serial killer. The cadet angle baffles me. This is the BAU, not a training school for cadets. Geez..she's an irredeemable character imho.
Lied about what? They filmed and produced 3 episodes with Seaver. They looked at the episodes to see how Seaver worked, MAYBE they used test audiences to gauge reaction, and then they signed her on full time. What is misleading about that?
i belive Seaver will shine soon enough on CM
heyya, yes, Deadline was one of the sources that one can find to discover that a deal was being struck prior to the arc airing. This character was always meant to be a series regular, it is was what Bernero et. al. wanted, something he himself has stated. It is just that it was put on a little bit of a hold. Also, had the character been put on hold to conduct some sort of test to assess viewer reaction, again, a deal would not have been struck after the airing of just one episode, but only after the arc completed.
Again, it is not uncommon that networks and producers take risks and gambles with shows. Some risks and gambles pan out, others don't.
JML.. do you have the dates of when those episodes were shot and when they would have exactly had a test group come in to view them and make some sort of assessment to that end?
There would have had to have been a good amount of time to complete all of this in, that is why I am asking for dates.
Also, this is not an inexpensive venture and for a show that has been stripped of writers, a show that hasn't given its cast a raise in 6 years, a show that claimed that it was firing AJ Cook over bugdet reasons, I'd find it personally fascinating that they would invest in the show in that way now. For pilots, a little more money is put up front because they want it to be picked up as a series.
Can we forget about the test groups angle since the show actually does have an audience and Seaver is already a regular and Emily is leaving? I really want to try to focus more on getting Emily and JJ back becuase then it would be a crowd with Seaver in the mix and they would have to ship her off to Bernero's beloved big oscar name and fame spinoff.
Test audiences are completely irrelevant at this point. Emily and JJ matter. Next episode is going to be crucial and may spell a return for both characters in season 7 if things go well.
Emily leaving is putting me in tears. She is so strong and desreves so much better as do Paget and AJ.
No Belinda. Like I've said, I do not have this information because it is not made public. From my knowledge of how test audiences usually work, they film and produce an episode and show it to an audience WELL BEFORE it airs so they can make changes if necessary.
I am not sure why we are getting caught up on the test audience thing. I just mentioned it to make the point that producers have more accurate ways than forum response to gauge reactions.
Well, if they showed it well before it aired, then that does matter because from what I know about the show they usually tape episodes near to when they are going to air. So, if you are proposing that a test was done, then that is revelant information to have to assess whether or not what you are saying could be even remotely possible.
The results are not made public, yes, but if the timing doesn't fit, it makes no sense. Plus, as I have said, this would have had to have been based on the 3 episodes, not one. So, that means they would have had to shoot all 3 episodes before airing, get a test group in there, and make an assessment. These were the 3 episodes she was in prior to not being in I think 2 episodes after that.
Episodes are filmed weeks and weeks in advance of airing. For example, according to Gubler's Twitter, "Lauren" was filmed and edited at least two months in advance of when it will air.
Sorry, probably a month and a half.
Also, I would think a test of the first episode would be sufficient, not all three since most of Seaver's introduction as a character happened in Episode 1, and she did not play a big role in 2 and 3.
Seaver's hair is shiny but not much else about her.
JJ and Emily have shinier hair.
Hmm, interesting because I believe Joe tweeted some pictures from the set when they were shooting episodes with the Seaver character and the timing did not warrant such a test being done. I think there were actually 2 pictures that he sent out.
But even in the amount of time that they filmed Lauren, that is not enough time for 3 episodes, a test group and analysis from that group.
No JML, it would have had to have been the three episodes because the three episodes were carrying her story of why she was there, what she was supposed to be bringing, etc.. You can't expect reliable test data of one episode. For pilots, more than one episode is shown to a test group.
Paget Brewster was phenomenal in Valhalla. The fact that she could portray all those emotions with her eyes and how it tore my heart apart, its quite rare IMO. Sure, I've been heartbroken over movies and tv episodes, but the fact that all she did to make me start bawling was using her expressions as she looked around the bau at the end; speechless. She didn't have any dialogue but how she expressed what she was feelings, and the tears I could see forming it was an Emmy-deserving performance. Extremely nervous and excited for Lauren. It's going to be bittersweet.
No, you are wrong about that. Pilots are the only episode filmed, and then they get tested and shopped around before they get picked up by a network. After they get picked up, they film more episodes.
If you remember, JJ wasn't even in the pilot of CM. That's because they filmed the pilot way in advance, then made changes according to how the show tested.
I'm done talking about test audiences though, because honestly it doesn't even matter.
Had to have been the 3 episodes if your contention is that they ran a test, which I personally don't believe that they did. To even put things more in your favor, I'd even cut that down to 2 episodes, but certainly not one. But again, I do not believe this was done. Bernero made a creative decision that he ran through the network and they signed off on it, in my opinion.
Pilots are shopped around sometimes with one episode at upfronts yes, but for a test group, you have to present differnt episodes, different scenes, different characters. This is how you are gathering data. The reason they are presented that way at the upfronts is because they have done the legwork to sharpen it before hand.
But yes, let's leave it at that.
For an example of a pilot that was tested with audiences before filming the other episodes, look at NCIS: Los Angeles. The lead character (Macy) was only in the pilot, and then she was fired because according to Ausiello, "she did not test well with audiences." She was not in any episodes after the pilot.
Sorry, had to get in one last word because I think your facts are wrong.
I don't know anything about that character, and the example that you are using is for a pilot, right?
And by audiences what audiences does he mean. A controlled test group like you are implying for the Seaver character, or the general viewing audience?
You are saying that a test was run before the Seave character aired, correct? And that this test group, you are assuming went well, correct? And that to make sure they aired the episode to get further data to support their inital conclusion, correct?
Okay, so then when did they run the analysis on this as shortly after the episode ran she was confirmed as a series regular.
LET ME SETTLE THIS ONCE AND FOR ALL FOR ALL OF YOU!
THERE WAS NO TEST AUDIENCE.
THE ACTRESS WAS HIRED BY ABC AND CBS THROUGH THE NORMAL AUDITION PROCESS.
This was an enjoyable episode as long as I didn’t sit down and try and analyze the actual mechanics of this story. Then it just tended to fall apart under its own plot holes (in my opinion). I liked it more for the personal interaction Emily had with most of the team members, and not for the believability of the story itself.
Emily and Rossi’s scene in the elevator was cute, as Rossi finally noticed something was going on with her and encouraged her to take a vacation far from her mother or places with cell coverage.
I particularly liked Emily’s scene with Reid at the beginning. It was nice to see him finally confide in someone about his headaches. It’s about time, since he’s been going this alone for weeks now. It was a nice reminder of the big sister/little brother relationship the two of them have, and that the fact that Emily usually looks out for his well being. He seemed so vulnerable in confessing his headaches and he even brought up the fact that he is the baby of the team. Even though he’s older and wiser now, I still like the fact that Reid is still the innocent one, and the others are protective of him (even if he wishes they weren’t at times). It was also good to see Reid noticing Emily’s high stress level and commenting on it as well. He seems more attuned to her moods in these past few episodes.
Along those same lines, I really liked all of Emily and Morgan’s scenes together. His brief scene of “profiling” Emily got to the heart of Emily’s actions these past few episodes, and harkens back to the fact that she is a master at compartmentalizing her feelings. She spent this entire episode hiding the fact that she knew what was going on and the extent of the enemy they were fighting. She doesn’t trust anyone, which I guess is in keeping with her character, but it is still a bit disheartening to see that with the BAU after all these years. She alone knows just what Doyle is capable of and what makes him tick, since she was the closest to him. She is putting the BAU in danger by NOT telling them everything, because they don’t know what who they are fighting yet or why. Sure they know it’s Doyle, but Emily knows so much more about him. But if she didn’t go it alone, she couldn’t be captured by Doyle next episode and have her departure from the team so elegantly set up.
I also liked Emily’s interactions with Penelope. Even though she essentially snapped at Penelope, she had a nice moment with her at the end when Emily was conveying how much Penelope meant to her. There has got to be some significance to the dream Emily was detailing. It was just too detailed to be something thrown in for the hell of it. I wouldn’t be surprised that Emily had a child with Doyle, though this will make the second unwanted pregnancy in her life. Why would she give the child up if she felt that Doyle was safely behind bars somewhere? There would be no need to fear for her child’s life unless she didn’t want a reminder of Doyle around all the time. Oh well, I’m sure it will be mentioned again next episode.
(cont)...
(cont)...
As for the story itself, I felt there were many plot holes. First off, where were the official reps from Interpol in this task force? CWS may have been the security team that transported Doyle to a North Korean prison, but this sounds like it was an Interpol mission that took him down. Surely Hotch would have contacted them officially to find out who the team was that did that mission, because at the bare minimum they would be in danger. Clyde and Tsia seemed like they were doing some rogue operation designed to protect themselves, and not acting on official capacity of Interpol. Of course if Hotch did that, he would know that Emily was the central figure in this whole mess, and that would have ruined the impact of Emily leaving at the end of this episode. I also find it a bit convenient that Hotch knew about Emily’s Interpol past. Again, that needs to be explained. Was she a FBI liaison to Interpol, or did she work purely for them? Because if she worked purely for them, the vast majority of her FBI background was forged, since there were only two years after the end of the Doyle operation before she joined the BAU. Why would CWS drop some guy off at a rogue North Korean prison? It’s not like Doyle was bin Laden; he was a rogue IRA leader. The US government doesn’t make a habit of dropping international criminals like Doyle in some North Korean prison, particularly since we don’t have diplomatic relations with North Korea. If this was some black ops thing, they could easily have tortured him somewhere, or killed him. It doesn’t sound like he was subject to extraordinary rendition to learn intelligence. If this was an official international operation, he probably would have been dealt with officially and put on trial and in a real jail. It just does not add up for me, but maybe it will all be explained satisfactorily and realistically next episode.
Thank you Criminal Minds Fan!!! Sorry to have gone on about it, truly I am sorry.
Um, I don't think you can "settle it once and for all" by simply stating something in all caps, so forgive me if I maintain my conclusion. The audition process has nothing to do with what we were talking about...
Criminal Minds Fan is the blog administrator and is personally connected with the show and what goes on behind the scenes. Plus, writing in all caps is what she does.
If she says that the producers have told her they did not test Seaver's character, then fine, but from her comment it did not seem like she understands what the discussion was about. We were talking not about the process by which Nichols was hired, but rather the decision to keep her on as a regular character.
I'm not sure I buy the idea that the show's producers keep the administrator of a fan blog informed of everything that goes on with the show...
OMG, LOL, LOL, LOL, LOL, yeah, Criminal Minds Fan runs stuff here and she is super connected with the show, the writers, the actors, people at the network, she coordinates the charity stuff, gets photos, etc..
By the way, thanks for all of the stuff you put off here and the charity stuff CMF.
P.S. Thank you for maintaining the blog. I think it's a big reason why there is a core of fans that are so passionate about the show, as evidenced by this discussion.
I'll let Criminal Minds Fan speak for herself if she'd like, but if you think that she would not be privvy to that information, or if she were that would be some type of a secret, to what end who knows, then ok. She is not a mere blog administrator, not that there is anything wrong with that, but if you knew anything about her background you'd know that she would know this information.
I am aware of the background, I know she has personal connections and whatnot, which is why I said I would take her word if she claims to have personal knowledge from a source on the show.
But, like I said, her comment seemed to be talking about something else entirely...
Just out of curiousity, correct me if I am wornd but who is ROmy Skye? I thought she was the blog adminsitrator?
OKAY...SORRY BUT I DO CAPS. ROMY IS A SWEET LADY BUT NOT ASSOCIATED WITH THIS BLOG.
AGAIN, RACHEL NICHOLS WAS HIRED THROUGH THE NORMAL PROCESS.
AND, THE DECISION TO KEEP HER ISN'T GOING TO INVOLVE A FOCUS GROUP.
ALSO, WHILE I AM OPEN TO ALLOWING OPEN CONVERSATION AND BANTER PLEASE BE RESPECTFUL OF EACH OTHER.
AND LASTLY PLEASE REMEMBER THAT ED BERNERO, THE ACTORS, WRITERS, CBS, ABC AND MORE PEOPLE THAN YOU CAN IMAGINE READ YOUR COMMENTS. PLEASE BE RESPECTFUL EVEN IF WHAT YOU HAVE TO SAY IS NEGATIVE. NEGATIVE IS ALRIGHT AS ED HAS TOLD US IN NUMEROUS CHATS BUT ALL OF US HONOR RESPECT.
THANKS!
Yes, that is why people need to keep things in perspective and stop blurring the line between a character and an actor. Two distinct things and also to stop, please stop using disrespectful and inflammatory language against people who have a different opinion than yours for example haters. It doesn't advance any of your opinions or agruments for or against something it just cast a negative light on this blog and the discussion. People take the time to thoughtfully write reviews on episodes or discuss characters that they feel are right or wrong, but they do it in a respectful way.
Story aside, I really did enjoy Paget's performance in this episode, and it highlights why she is so necessary for this show. Emily is smart, tough, compassionate, kind and resourceful. She's a great character, and I imagine the team will not feel whole without her for the rest of the season. I do think that Emily got a good scene with most of the BAU team (with the exception of Hotch, but maybe that will be rectified in the next episode) to convey in words and action how much they mean to her individually. Yeah, it's probably because they're aren't any or many Emily scenes with the BAU in "Lauren." We figure she is probably abducted and tortured by Doyle. We also know that something happens to Emily to allow her to leave for the rest of the season. So "Valhalla" is really Emily's goodbye episode with the team. Or maybe not; we'll see next week. I just hope Paget decides to come back for season 7, because I don't think Emily can be easily replaced, certainly not by Ashley, a green and unqualified rookie agent (or she will be by episode 19 when she gets a gun).
Any thoughts as to why Seaver has blood spatter on her shirt in the promo picture?
There's really only one way to get that kind of blood on you- by standing near someone who gets shot.
yeah i think she stood next to someone who got shot.
Seaver is definitely growing on me. Really excited where this character is growing into. Will she become a tough girl like Elle, or will she be like Emily. Or will she become the soft girl on the show with a heart
Adam, it would really help if you could flesh out why you feel that way about Seaver. I think it is safe to say that a lot of people here and many of the other sites I go to have an issue with the Seaver character because of the nature of that character and what many perceive as an ill- fit for the team and the show. Pat or Pgunn, maybe both, sorry can't remember, have asked on several occassions for people who leave comments like yours to please explain further, not because you have to, only because it may help those of us that don't see any role for this character on the show perhaps see why you do. People have written what could be now volumes of why the Seaver character in their opinion doesn't fit and shouldn't return for season 7. For example, you said your excited to see where this character is going, okay, why. Is there a specific scene and/or episode that is sparking that excitement. Again, I'm not asking to be argumentative I just truly want to understand because for me this character makes no sense for the show, she slows down the tempo, and I personally don't see how she falls in line with the BAU being that there is really nothing extraordinary about her character that would explain her being on the team with np qualifications. The fact that her father is a serial killer, I don't believe can be used as a reason as it was stated that she didn't know that until he was arrested and that before that she lived an ideal childhood. Not to mention that it has nothing to do with being a profiler.
I enjoyed this episode very much and still love this show.I also love this blog because I don't live in U.S. and visiting here is the only way to get information about the show. I'm surprised at the blog under fire and sad about this mess.Mess,is this a right word?Umm,sorry my English isn't very good.
Anyway whatever happens whatever we think,we can't forget how hard making a show is. They all try very hard!!Let us watch a great show once a week.ONCE A WEEK is amazing.No offence, in my country,I can hardly find an exciting show like CM.So I think WATCH if you like DO NOT WATCH AND JUST WALK AWAY if you don't like it.I don't know I should post this but post this.
I think people have concerns and issues about what they feel has been transpiring with the show lately and are sharing them here. I would say that nobody really wants to walk away from the show but perhaps see a turn of events with regard to the writing, loss of 1 female character, the possible loss of another, and the addition of a female character that is in some people's opinion, myself included, not strong or adequate to be on the show character wise being that she is so terribly green and simply not qualified to be on the team, coupled with the fact that there really is no rationale as to why she should get a spot on the team above those who are qualified to do so (character wise). This is a sticking point for many because it is one that they and I feel will affect the dynamic of the show.
I think it is good that people are expressing that instead of just tuning out.
But it hasn't affected the dynamic of the show. It is still a very good show and Valhalla proved that.
In my opinion you can definitely see, that Seaver is slowly beginning to fit nicely in with the team, and she is also slowly gaining more that like her. There is even some youtube videos with her where there is reid/seaver shipping going on
She wasn't really featured in the Valhalla episode, so the concern, at least for me is moving forward when she is the only female field agent. As far as dynamic being affected, I think that was shown the most in the Coda episode where her questions were off, deductions were even worse, and there were instances where the tempo was stopped to explain things to this character which is what is going to happen often wityh this character because she is so green, unless, they go back to unrealistically writing her as being able to profile with the team. Also, as some mentioned in that thread, there was natural flow with that character as there has always been with the other characters in the posters and my opinion.
I meant to say that there wasn't a natural flow
Maribel,
I think Seaver will officially graduate from the academy soon, since RN tweeted recently that she was filming with a gun. I think after that happens, and once Prentiss is gone, she will be written as a much stronger character. I like her relationship with Rossi, and I think she and Reid will have a cute, platonic relationship.
I think her background will open up some interesting possibilities for future plots, so I for one am interested in seeing how she develops.
Carol said:
Just give her a break. All new characters is hard to accept. she will be accepted soon
That is not necessarily true. I accepted Rossi and Prentiss from the moment they came on my screen. I had no difficulty accepting either of them because they belonged there. When the character is so far outside the realm of the show, and beyond the bounds of common sense, that makes accepting him/her difficult
I am just glad that we find out more about Prentiss' past life & careers. Just because JJ Cook left doesn't mean you have to bring a blonde that has no character to the show. It will be so much better without her. She doesn't add anything to the show at all. Eliminate the baggage.
Graduating from the Academy and getting a gun in no way makes this character qualified to get a spot on a specialized unit. All that will occur when she graduates is that she will move from being an unqualified cadet with no gun on a specialized unit, to a rookie agent who has graduated from he Academy and received a gun but still does not have the qualifications to be on a specialized team like the BAU. The core issue is that this is a specialized unit, if it weren't fine, but it is so the fact that she is not qualified to be there regardless of whether she has an Academy diploma and a gun matter.
from English CM fan - CRIMINAL MINDS FAN - thank you. I love this forum, I live in England and we are a few months behind on the episodes airing so I watch them online. i love how passionate fans are about the show and as I said I have been floored by the strength of some fans posts. since your comment the posts have become more sensitive. It is possible to take the aggression out of an argument and still have the same volume of passion for what you feel. We wont all agree because we have different favourite characters and look for different things in storylines. But that's what makes this blog work so well (when we aren't being over defensive). I have no idea how the FBI works or the CIA or the difference between a state trooper, a sherif or a "cop" so I watch the show with an innocent naivity and rarely spot holes in the plot. I rely on this forum to point out the holes but I will already have watched and enjoyed the episode so it doesnt put me off. But what I have found since I came across this forum is how much more attention I have paid to characters other than my favourite and this has enriched my enjoyment of the show. I do get anxious that there wont be a season 7 when I read all the posts aobut how bad the writing is etc but then as it has been pointed out there are between 12 and 14 million viewers still tuning in in America every week and it is way popular over here and this is just one blog of passionate fans who want to share - so I'm reassured. There will always be a episodes we dont get - then you get a storyline like this and it wows you and fills you with confidence ther ecan be more great storylines. Not one person I have spoken to here has lost any faith in CM - even if we don't get jurisdiction and when the FBI can be invited in etc - we dont care so long as we get an hour of good tv. One of our most popular shows is a tv series about a man over 900old years who travels through time in an old 1960's wooden policebox!! (trust me it's great Saturday teatime tv) English fans are very sad about JJ leaving, they haven't got to this storyline yet so at the moment they haven't caught up with Paget leaving as well, so for now, even though AJ is missed, it's still an hour of great tv.
English CM fan, where are you guys in the series over there?
From English CM fan- Maribel, they have just aired into the woods.
Can I ask a question? What exactly DOES qualify one to be in the BAU?
I'll look for it Anonymous. LaShawna wrote something a while back. Basically, I think it is 7 to 10 years of relative experience, education. I'll look for what LaShawna previously posted. Reid was the exception of course because of his genius. Morgan and Elle were both police officers prior to coming into the FBI, with a few years I believe as FBI agents prior to joining the BAU. Prentiss I think was written as having 10 years experience as an FBI agent, but as we are seeing now, some of that was in Interpol (hope that gets explored more in the Lauren episode).
From English CM fan - by the way, how do I actually sign up to this blog if I want to stop signing in as anonymous?
Just click on "Name" under "Choose an identity" and enter a name.
It would seem that Hotch joined the BAU right out of the Academy.
No, Hotch was a prosecutor for a time before joining the BAU. Although they do have a loopy time frame for some of the characterss overlapping time wise, basically, they have been written to be able to be there. LOL, it is funny though with the Hotch/Prentiss time frame, LOL.. But that I think is a function of not paying careful attention of timing, but again, they were written with that experience.
Still looking for LaShawna's post.
Being a prosecutor doesn't change the fact that he joined the BAU right out of the Academy. And no, prosecution is not relevant experience. (speaking from personal knowledge)
Huh? Hotch most certainly did not go straight from the Academy to the BAU, most certainly not. And yes, being a prosecutor is considered as law enforcement, so yes, that does count as relative experience.
Not sure what Hotch did after the prosecution stint, not much up on Hotch. Hotch fans would know, I am a Hotch fan bit not up on his time line.
to Maribel
you say 7 to 10 years experience. Then how can you guys justify Reid being there. Yeah i know he is a genius, but he did not have 7-10 years experience before joining BAU. So he shouldn't be qualified either then by your statements you made.
If you can justify Reid, you can certainly justify Seaver also. She is also a rare case for them like reid, and that is why they hired her to be on the team. I got no doubt in my mind they will soon show that to us, that she can contribute to the team with her unique background and childhood she have. she has only been on 5 or 6 episodes right now. And she will soon show she belongs on the team like the rest. Just have to have patience. She will do fine
Ugh, LaShawna, if you log back on can you please post what the qualifications are. Sorry to ask that of you, I know you posted it before, but I don't remember when and there are about a billion comments in each of the threads.
:(
In the episode "Poison," JJ asks Hotch why he chose the BAU out of all the other departments he could have chosen after becoming an agent, and he replies that he wanted to stop crimes before they happened because it was always too late when he was a prosecutor.
This indicates that his entire time in the FBI has been spent in the BAU, and we have no other indications to the contrary.
Prosecution is considered "law enforcement" in the broad sense of the criminal justice system, but what they do pretty much has nothing to do with the skills required by the BAU.
Adam, I would encourgage you to look at earlier posts to see why Reid was exempted. Goodness, it has been written here about a million times, but basically, Reid was handpicked by Gideon because of his genius, IQ 187, Eidetic Memory, Reads 20,000 words a minute, has 3 doctorates, he is extraordinary. As Elizabeth, I believe, once wrote he is a one in a billion genius. Not an average person by no stretch of the imagination. Seaver has none of that. The serial killing father thing, major fail, and if that is what makes her special then the Coda episode pretty much destroyed that specialness once and for all when she suggested that the unsub was the 10 year old autisitic boy- please go to the Coda thread where that was discussed ad nauseum. Not to mention that the questions and conclusions she comes up with don't lend to her being like Reid in that she warrants an exemption.
Just testing.
No, I think Adam has a good point. The point is that there really are no baseline educational or experience "qualifications" as the show has been written. They pick and choose whoever they want if there is something about the individual that can add to the team. In Seaver's case, she has some unique experience and insight into the families of killers. This was proved in her first episode where she was able to provide several insights that led to the completion of the profile.
To quote Gideon "With a little tutelage and some field experience there will be nothing Agent Reid will not be able to accomplish with this team." The same is true for Seaver. Her knowledge just needs to be leveraged.
thanks Mirabel
Please it would help if people could read through the posts, please. It has been said that from the very beginning the show has taken pains to show why Reid was a special case and deserved to be exempted into the BAU. Right from the start, the viewer knew that there was something extraordinary about Reid and thus their acceptance of him on the team. As others wrote, fro the begininng til today, one can see why Reid would be picked to be on the team despite his lack of years of experience. Seaver has been on for 5 episodes and nothing. If there had been something, it would have been revealed, or should have been revealed by now so that the viewer can make sense of her being there; that is what the arc should hav eaccomplished, then build from there, not the other way around, that doesn't make sense.
Yes Anonoymous, but Gideon was saying that with the base being Reid's brilliance, cultivating that into something stronger. Also, how could there be no baseline education or experience??? Hotch asked JJ if she wanted to take the profiling classes to become a profiler, JJ who had already been at the FBI for years already and by that point was an SSA. Also, in Prentiss' second episode Hotch told Gideon to take Prentiss with him to Guantamo Bay only because of her language skills, but because she was well versed in the behavorial sciences. Moreover, the very fact that it is an elite and specialzied unit as written by the show necessitates some baseline, if not, what then makes it elite or specilaized.
Your welcome English CM Fan!
I have read the posts and I know that people are saying Reid was let into the BAU because of his genius. What I am saying, is that the show does not provide a definition for education or years of experience. What we do know, is that they can choose to let people into the unit if there is something they can add. Reid added his book smarts and general intelligence. Seaver has very specific and firsthand knowledge about killers' families, along with her advanced test scores.
I don't think any of them have psychology-related degrees (maybe Rossi?), and it would seem Prentiss and Rossi are the only one with any sort of FBI experience before coming to the BAU. Morgan, Hotch, Reid, and Elle for all we know joined right out of the Academy. I remain to be convinced about the validity of the qualifications argument. It just hasn't been established convincingly.
Maribel
We just have to agree to disagree. I still say that Seaver will soon show her worth. The writers on this show has never been stupid, when writing for the characters. I think the people that don't like her now, will get an awakening when she shows what she is made of, and how tough she will become when she is more fitted in with the team.
There is a reason the team picked her, and it will be revealed. Of course after only 5 episodes they can't just do that. They need time to make the character feel at home with the team. I remember rossi when he first came on, and how he had his beef with morgan, and the whole church thing and priests. He also didn't approve of reid or even Garcia at first he thought they were a bit weird. He needed to know them first and they needed to know him. The viewers didn't like Rossi at that time. But when he began to feel more at home with the team, the viewers warmed up to him. And it will be the same with Seaver. You just wait and see
Anonymous, the show is based on the Behavorial Science Unit of the FBI. They have tried to stay relatively close to that except with the creative license of writing in Reid and of course other creative things- no one would watch a show that was strictly based on the FBI BSU. They have stated that the BSU was their model for the show and from day one highlighted the experience, skill and knowledge of each of the team members, not just that they had it, but they had to have it to be on the team- of course, Reid being the extraordinary case because of his one ina billion genius. Gideon knew that a team that had to delve into the minds of criminals could enefit greatly from a mind like Reid's. What episode has shown that with Seaver?
Advanced test scores in what? All they have said is that she mastered the obstacle course?
No Morgan and Elle did not enter straight from the Academy to the BAU. Elle's first episode shows that not to be the case, and in a previous post I believe Zagi said that Morgan was an SSA from the beginning episodes, you can't be an SSA straight out of the Academy. Rossi was one of the founders of the BAU, got out of the field for a while, wrote some books, then came back.
We will have to agree to disagree Adam.
I think the same agree to disagree will need to be the case for me and you Anonymous, the last Anonymous that I addressed. Just wanted to make the distinction between the Anonymous'
On another note, did they delve into how Hotch knew that Prentiss was in Interpol?
I don't remember about Elle.
But why couldn't Morgan have achieved SSA while in the BAU?
And Seaver was referred to several times during the first episode as having "impressive academy scores." Not to mention pretty much completing the obstacle course the fastest the supervisor had ever seen.
Also, the real BSU requires a master's degree or higher in a psychology-related discipline, plus you have to be an SSA. I don't think any of the team with the possible exception of Rossi meet both of those requirements, so let's not pretend that the BAU is the same thing. Others have made it clear that they are talking about the "internal logic" of the show regarding qualifications, which frankly, there is none.
Ok truce
Anonymous, Morgan came in as an SSA. Plus, what does the obstacle course have to do with profiling?
No internal logic with regard to qualifications, I just don't even know where you are getting that, but I think this should just end here because I think that we are going to get nowhere with this conversation.
Also, I want to find out if anyone has any answer with regard to the Hotch/Prentiss Interpol questioned I asked.
Maribel, I think we are just supposed to assume that Hotch knew all along.
LaShawna, I enjoyed reading your review and observations :)
Unit Chief Seaver will be running things by the end of next season. CBS is pushing her and the other characters will have to take a back seat. CBS doesn't care what you think. The writing was good for this last episode and probably the next one because it is the Prentice arc and it will return to mediocre once the arc is finished. Remember the episode 100 was really good but the other episodes were poor?
I've been thinking about this episode for a couple days now. There was a lot to like about it. Beautiful scenes with Prentiss and Garcia, with Morgan, with Reid. I agree that there should have been one with Hotchner too, but I could almost explain that away -- he, of all people, would have known something was up. But the whole time I was watching, I was rooting out loud for Prentiss to tell them what she knew. She's worked with these people for years; she clearly loves them. And she knows that they're in danger because of her past. She needed to tell them.
Because honestly, now I think they've written themselves into a corner. Even if by some miracle PB returned full time to the series (And I'm really torn between wanted her to have a successful pilot and wanting to keep her for us!), exactly how would that work with the characters? Prentiss withheld critical information and put the team at risk. How exactly does she apologize for that when the truth comes out? How does Morgan, with his well-established trust issues, ever turn his back on her again? How does Hotch let her come back? (We do remember what he's like when he's really angry, right?) I just don't see any way that isn't totally OOC for this to work out.
As for Seaver -- it is not a good thing when my husband, who rarely watches the show, takes one look and says, "She's not hot enough to be that useless." Um, yeah, he's a pig, but for someone who isn't at all invested in the show to see no point to the character is pretty damning. And again, I don't see where the writers can go from here. She can't, as written, replace Prentiss as Morgan's action-guy backup, which means that they're going to have to bring in yet another new character. If she was supposed to function as the Dr. Who equivalent of The Companion -- someone the leads can explain things to so the viewers can understand them -- she's unnecessary. The team explains things every week to the assorted local police, to Garcia, to the victims' loved ones, and they discuss things among themselves perfectly well. We don't need a Companion character; we're smart enough to keep up. So, yeah, I don't get it.
Yeah and we are supposed to believe your husband said that about Rachel Nichols. Oh give me a break.
Every straight man i know thinks Rachel Nichols is a fox.
She got applause by the men when watching GI joe in the theater.
You lost all credibility here just because you don't like her, you don't have to come up with a lie that your husband also thinks she is useless.
No Tom, I think who just lost all credibility here is you.
Wow....
I'm a little lost as to why people think that Prentiss and Doyle may have had a child? I know when she was a teen she had an abortion, so are people thinking that she had a baby later on. If so, where would that child be now, or is the child dead?
anonymous said
No Tom, I think who just lost all credibility here is you.
Wow....
Yeah whatever. if you are going to believe are man says Rachel Nichols is not attractive then you can't be helped at all.
And it just shows you also jumped on the hate bandwaggon of this character. Damn this is getting old now. Just change the record already jezz
How about we all go back to our season 1 CM dvds and re watch. Then we can be on the same page as to how this team came to be. Once we can somewhat agree, we can move on to season 2 and so forth. *psuedosarcasm* ;)Everyone is so all over the page I get the feeling that some of you are hit or miss on episode watching. The bickering has gotten out of hand and quite irritating to those of us who want to talk about the episode or have questions regarding character development. ie. Reids career in the BAU,(which has been discussed frequently thru the years) I'd just like to add that it's damn embarrassing to me to know that our ADMIN on this blog is just as frustrated with some of these threads. Lets all be friendly and thankful we have a great site to chat. I really appreciate free expression but abhore the nasty verbage of late. Thanks and if any of you are on Twitter join us at #criminalminds on Wednesday nights to live comment on the shows as they air. Sort, sweet and funny comments.
All I can say is wow Tom, wow....
Thanks coadygirl for your plea and invite to the live Twitter discussion, but somehow I think it may just fall on deaf ears as evidenced in the post before yours with regard to veribage. Although I am hoping that it won't and that we can get back to discussions as usual.
Susan, I think it may have to do with the ring that Prentiss had. Some seem to think that it has to do with an initimate connection between her and Doyle, and that maybe the reason that he hates her so much has to do with possibly a child that she either hid from him or died and he is blaming her for that.
That is what I think some people were leading to, but I personally think that maybe they did have some kind of personal relationship and that he found out that she was in Interpol and felt betrayed. However, I do think that there is something beyond that, not sure if it is a child, but something more for him to hate her like he does.
Call me crazy, but I think Charlie, JML, Adam, and Tom are the same person who is very in love with Rachel Nichols. Don't mean this in a mean way, just a crazy unfounded theory. lol
Paget Brewster said she isn't allowed to tweet for a while...apparently CBS have given her the chance to now stay on in the show....coincedence? Maybe Prentiss wont die! The latest episode was great :) Its good when they focus in on certain characters for a while...however what's with Reid's headaches..they've barely brought it up again!
Also,I think there may have been a bit of a relationship going on between Prentiss and Doyle. Who was he lighting the candle for in the church?
One of the Anonymouses said: "Being a prosecutor doesn't change the fact that he joined the BAU right out of the Academy. "
No, he didn't. In the very first CM episode "Extreme Aggressor" Hotch states that he has spent two years at the Seattle Field Office. That would have been before he joined the BAU, which is solely working out of Quantico.
Nicole, I am hoping that Paget comes back so that they can follow up on the Reid headache storyline with her there. I think the set-up was great between him and Prentiss and that it could really develop into something great in terms of some more scenes between them too (big sister- little brother type of thing). I especially thought that scene was great between them two considering the bumpy road they had after the Reid/Tobias storyline. It is great how they have evolved as friends/coworkers.
I absolutely loved the episode. I thought it was very well written. It touched on everything that had been missing this season with team "family" interactions. It incorporated past episodes as in Reids headaches. And it brought out emotions in me (fear, excitement, thought provoking, sadness etc)where past episodes this season had not. Paget is an incredible talented beautiful actress. I cant say enough good things about her and what she brings to CM. First time this season that I literally cant wait until the next new episode.
I would like to address those posters that say to give it a rest with the Seaver character. The reason I mention my dislike of the character with each episode review is so no one would mistakes the non mention for acceptance of the her.
I think its important that if there are those from CM reading these reviews that they see that there are those of us that are not warming up to this character and the reasons why, just as I think its important for them to see there are those who are.
There is a thread to wish Paget a "Happy Birthday," let's make sure to wish her a happy birthday there and show her some love :)
to cheeto
So we are the same person because we like Seaver, can't you come up with a better answer then that. I say that is just mental.
I guess all those people that like her, is the same people as well. Wow just wow.
Adam,
I never said that was the reason why (just because you like her). But like I said, it was just a fun conjecture because the things you say and words/phrases you use are the same. But I suppose the same could be said about the Seaver haters, although they generally have more things in their posts that are distinct. Whereas pro-Seaver posts are just all pro-Seaver. No need to jump on me, I am of the live and let live camp. But just a lil note, take some of the pro Seaver posters' advice and chill - it is just a tv show ;)
Can you put up a birthday card for Matthew, Criminal Minds Fan? I would like to send him wishes, too, and I think his b'day is the day before Paget's - the ninth, right?
And WTH is Susan Traylor and why does MGG have his arm around her???
Hah! We Gube fans must know these things...
Cheeto, I don't think you are off, been thinking that for a while myself, but in the end it doesn't matter. We all just have to be respectful and just take in the opinions set forth here for what they are, opinions. If you agree or disagree fine, but there is no need to get so emotional, really, just chill.
Ha ha, gubegirl was thinking the same thing about a birthday thread for MGG and I was about to start investigations on Susan Traylor, LOL LOL
Just kidding :)
but in the end it doesn't matter. We all just have to be respectful and just take in the opinions set forth here for what they are, opinions. If you agree or disagree fine, but there is no need to get so emotional, really, just chill.
Exactly. But I can totally understand how frustrating it can get sometimes. Sometimes you just have to accept the fact that you're not gonna be able to change someone's opinion and they are not gonna be able to change yours. But I admire the pro-Seavers who are rallying against hate. I'd love to have a guy who defends me so staunchly. Take heart, proSeavers. Maybe she will be back In S7 and you can continue having the beautiful Ms. Nichols on your TV :)
I don't like the use of the word hate because I think that is being to carelessly and flippantly used here. People do not care for this character for many reasons, reasons that I don't need to comment on here because people can go to just about any thread to see what the concerns are with that character.
I think the character is a horrible addition to the show because I believe that it is an ill-conceived character that doesn't fit within the frameowrk of the show and never will. I am not going to run down all of the reasons why because really they have been gone over again and again here. But just cause I think that the character is a horrible addition doesn't make me a hater. Seriously, what does that even mean. It sounds like something a tweenager would say to someone who doesn't like Justin Bieber or one of the Jonas brothers. It is, in my opinion, a lame and simple "counter agrument" against people who don't like this character and don't want the character to return for season 7.
But what should the people that like Seaver call those who don't like Seaver then?
Because some of it really does come of as nitpicking with this character for you. It doesn't matter what she do you don't approve of her actions. What can she do that will be ok?
What can the Seaver character do that will be ok? Answer- in my opinion, be written off the show as maybe transferring to a unit that is more in line with her lack of qualifications and lack of experience. The BAU is not a training camp and viewers shouldn't have to be put in a position where they have to see the show dumbed and slowed down to cater to this inexperienced addition.
The character should have been written as being experienced and qualified enough to be on the team. I don't know why the character wasn't, but that can't be changed now and in my opinion, for the sake of the show, that needs to be resolved.
People there is now an MGG birthday thread, so you know we have got to give MGG some birthday love, but also don't forget about the Paget birthday thread that is up here too. Got to give Paget some birthday love too!
Going to leave my birthday love for MGG now, already showed my girl Paget some birthday love :)
Adam, it is simply that they don't like the character for the show. "Haters" sounds like something that they would say on MTV to be extreme or like I said earlier a tweenager would say to someone who doesn't like Justin Bieber or one of the Jonas brothers. It is an extreme and seriously lame thing to say, and it is not an argument it is just an attempt to caste people in a negative way because they don't like a character. It is a way to deflect the argument away from the substance of what was said against the character onto to the person who made the comments against the character.
Bottom line, they and I just don't think the character is good for the show and shouldn't return, that is all. No need to use language like haters against people, there really isn't a need to take it there.
Nobody knows why there is still no information on the next chapter after "Lauren"? I have days to seek and find not the smallest detail.
„Valhalla“ made it on the TV Gudie Top moments list. If you have the time, why not leave a comment about how great Pagets performance was? It's not about, if TV Guide cares or anything, it's just about showing how much we love Paget. Link is http://tinyurl.com/6jftz6n
Here you go, direct from the FBI website concerning the BSU team makeup:
Who makes up the unit.
Supervisory special agents and veteran police officers with advanced degrees in the behavioral science disciplines of psychology, criminology, sociology, and conflict resolution. The unit also includes a criminologist, clinical psychologist, research/crime analysts, and management analyst.
I maintain that Reid IS an exception, and that was made patently clear from the get go from this show. That's why in the pilot Reid specifically said why Gideon insists on everyone calling him "Dr. Reid". Ashley has been on this show for six episodes now, and there is STILL no indication why she deserves to be there. In the past when a new member joined the BAU, it was made obvious in their first or second episode what they could contribute. Elle was a sex crimes expert with the highest solve rate in the Seattle field office for three years prior, Emily had the street smarts, culture knowledge, language skills and myriad of other talents. Rossi was an original BAU so clearly he knows what is going on. As of right now, Ashley seems so USELESS as a character with nothing to contribute to the team. You could literally take her lines out of "Valhalla" and it would not affect the show in the slightest. I'm sure she will get more focus starting in episode 19. It's just that those of us who don't like her character dread how her story will expand and if it will seem credible in any manner.
Anonymous said:
Being a prosecutor doesn't change the fact that he joined the BAU right out of the Academy. And no, prosecution is not relevant experience. (speaking from personal knowledge)
I don't believe that's true. In the first episode in Seattle, Hotch is introducing the team and then he says something like, "After two years in this office, I hope you all remember me." (not the exact wording) So, we know that Hotch worked in Seattle for two years and we also know he was part of Emily's mother's security detail, one of his first posts, he said. So I don't think he went into the BAU straight from the academy.
LaShawna,
Please keep in mind that while the show does try to stay as realistic as possible (even going so far as to have the real BAU come in and consult) it is, nonetheless, still a FICTIONAL show. Not a documentary. So you have to give them a little leeway from reality to be able to bring in interesting ideas/storylines/characters etc. Of course, "interesting" is completely subjective and what one may find interesting, another may find boring or upsetting.
I think the point that Charlie/Adam/JML/whoever else was trying to make, is that yes the Seaver character so far has been useless. But only because, with Paget's possible exit from the show, the focus has been mainly on the Unsub of the week and Prentiss' super sekret spy drama. All the other characters, including Seaver, have pretty much taken a backseat for now.
I personally think that there are too many characters on the show. I would actually not mind if, should Paget choose to leave, both Prentiss and Seaver were gone from the show. Character-wise on the episodes, this would give more time for character development instead of having to split time between 7 or 8 characters. Of course, that is a hard thing to say since people's jobs are attached to these characters and I would not wish for anyone to lose their job. But character-wise for the show, I would actually be ok with just Garcia and the guys. That may not be a popular or likeable opinion, but it is not meant with any malice towards any of the other actors. I wish them all the best. I could never cut it as a manager or executive because I would hate to have to make the decisions about hiring and firing people. LOL.
New here. Call me a bigot but i really like Ashley Seaver and looking forward to her progression on the show.
LaShawna said...
"You could literally take her lines out of "Valhalla" and it would not affect the show in the slightest. I'm sure she will get more focus starting in episode 19. It's just that those of us who don't like her character dread how her story will expand and if it will seem credible in any manner."
LaShawna, I didn't even think of that but that is true, if one were to take out her lines from Valhalla it woudn't alter the show in the slightest, not at all. Another good point is the one that you wrote afterwards whether her character will be credible in any manner from episode 19 on. I say no for two reasons:
1. Either they will continue writing her as the newbie fresh out of the Academy albeit now with a gun which doesn't add to the profiling aspect that the show is based on, who regardless of that will not have the qualifications and experience to be there, so whatever she says or contributes will not be, can't be, of any substance. Certainly not anything that any of the other characters wouldn't have come up with or for that matter need that character to come up with for them.
2. They may go the other way and start writing this character as having inormation and making contributions that are just not credible being that she lacks so many of the qualifications and experience to be there. Hence, we will start getting more Corazon type profiling to the police deaprtment type scenes that are just far beyond the realm of credibility for this character and for the show.
She will either be writen as learning, which adds nothing to the show, or will be written as being able to jump in and swim with the rest of the profilers which is simply not credible. People have brought up Rossi and Prentiss but the thing with Rossi and Prentiss is that they had a purpose to be there, that is, they had the qualifications and expereince to start contributing in a credible way from the very beginning and that added greatly to the show. It kept in line with what the show was about. The fact that some may not have liked Rossi and/or Prentiss when they joined the team is not relevant to the point that whether liked or not they had the qualifications and experience to be there so their characters could be scripted as being a credible asset to the team and to the show. It is not a question of a popularity contest, but rather, of what fits in the scheme of the show. Going back to the two points I listed, Seaver just can't fit into that scheme for the show.
Point number one would just continue adding to the uselessness of this character being there, and of truly just being a filler character. Number two would just be so far out of left and right field that it will bring down the credibility of the foundation that it takes something special to be on that team; experience, qualifications, and in the case of Dr. Reid's brilliance blending together to make it the elite and specialized unit that sets it apart from all other units.
Who would call you a bigot??? Sorry, but that is just silly and makes no sense.
Cheeto, yes, this is fiction, but fiction based on a unit of the FBI, fiction that the show itself has stated they try to keep as close to the vest of reality as possible. Of course, some of it is not reality, it couldn't be. But when you base a show on anything like a police deaprtment, a branch of the FBI, a hospital, anything real world related, to some extent you have to operate within the realm of those worlds. Now it doesn't have to be too close, or exact, but that does have to be there to some extent. And like I said, the fact that they positioned this unit as being elite and specialized cannot in any real world or fictional basis include someone who does not have one iota of what it would take to come close to that description, not at all.
Cheeto,
I understand that this show isn't a documentary about the BAU. If it were, there would be no private jet, not nearly as much travel and a whole lot of paperwork that would be boring to watch. :) However, every show does establish its own universe and rules of that universe from the get go. So these unrealistic aspects of the BAU were there from the start. The reason so many people are emphasizing Ashley's lack of qualifications, is that up until her entry onto the show, it was mentioned over and over again that the BAU was an elite place with people highly trained and skilled for this type of work. They all either had amazing amounts of education (Reid) or the requisite number of years of experience elsewehere (Elle, Morgan, Emily). I personally feel that the show is violating the rules of their own universe by saying a cadet (and soon to be rookie special agent) deserves to be there, when there hasn't been any reason WHY she deserves to be there.
As for your comment about Penelope and the boys, I have to say, if Paget doesn't return to the show and if lightning doesn't strike and AJ is asked to return, yeah, I would prefer it just be Penelope and the dudes, because then the show could focus more character time on the smaller team. I would miss a lack of a female profiler, but since I don't feel that Ashley will be a strong profiler anytime soon, I would rather have no female than a weak female. But that's just me. :)
Me too LaShawna. I would prefer it be Garcia and the men alone rather than to try and fill the female agent role with someone who is not up to snuff to take that role over due to the nature of that character.
I agree LaShawna and Roberta, I too would prefer only Garcia and the guys. I hope CBS can work out a deal with Paget for season7. I also pray that they rehire AJ...she is the missing piece of the puzzle. Although the writing took a downward slope beginning of season5, it didn't bother me much because to me CM has always been about the characters. I enjoy the profiling aspect too. But it's the characters that keep me coming back every week. The cast was so perfect in season5 that they could even take a mediocre script and transform it into magic on screen. Such was their understanding and chemistry. To have such an amazing family torn apart angers and saddens me at the same time. With AJ's "JJ" gone in season6, the holes in the writing have become more apparent now. There is sense of emptiness about the show this season and I can only attribute it to JJ's departure. I can't even imagine what the show will look like once Emily's gone. It's going to be super weird. I don't know how things are going to turn out, what I do know is that the character of Ashley Seaver fill never be able to fill JJ's and Emily's shoes, you can give her how many ever episodes you want, it's just not working, the writers have screwed her up beyond repair.
Therefore, if there's no chance of JJ and Emily returning, I'd prefer the cast to be only Garcia and the guys. That way we can get more screen time and storylines for the characters we already know and love, instead of wasting valuable screen time and storyline on the annoying Seaver character, who has no place in the BAU to begin with.
Ehh..sorry for the typos in my previous post. I always forget to proof read before publishing my comment :P
Yeah, if they are not going to get AJ back for season 7 and Paget is not coming back, then they should just keep it at Garcia and the boys, or if they get AJ back but Paget doesn't return then it should just be JJ, Garcia and the boys.
Once Prentiss is off the show, really, Garcia and the boys are the ones that are going to be carrying the show.
I am dying for it to be time for the Lauren episode to air. I am going to be really sad though because it will be Paget's last episode. Ack, I don't even want to think about that now because I am going to start getting mad at CBS all over again.
Dori, it literally makes me want to cry :'( I cried during "Valhalla" too. I don't know what I'm doing to do when "Lauren" comes around. It's all just so stupid. Why did CBS have to go and mess with something that was already perfect?? It just beggars belief. The CM cast of JJ, Garcia, Hotch, Morgan, Reid, Emily and Rossi was amongst the best ensemble casts on TV. They just fit so well together, it didn't even look like they were acting. Everything was just so natural, they all connected beautifully, and then for CBS to tear them apart like they did..gosh, it's so unreasonable. I'll never be able to understand it.
I hope they pay heed to our comments, I know it's mostly wishful thinking, but a girl can dream. Bring back JJ and Emily, and give the show and cast(MGG, TG, KV, SM, PB, AJ & JM) the recognition and respect they so richly deserve.
heyya, yeah, everything just clicked with all of them there and until this day I don't get why someone, anyone, thought it was a good idea to mess with that cast. Sometimes I can't even watch some of the old episodes because it makes me so sad and mad at what happened to the cast and to the show. I just keep on asking myself why, why.
I'm starting to think that everyone over at CBS, ABC and CM are permanently out to lunch. Then there is another side of me who feels that one day I will wake up and this would have all turned out to be a bad dream and that on my screen will appear Hotch, Garcia, Reid, Prentiss, JJ, Morgan and Rossi.
Count me in as one who would prefer the boys and Garcia if Paget and JJ do not return. It will be hard enough to watch the rest of this season after Paget leaves.
I THINK FOR THE MOST PART I HAVE BEEN FAIRLY GOOD AT LETTING YOU ALL EXPRESS AND VENT OVER THE CHARACTER OF SEAVER BUT I WANT TO STEP IN FOR A MOMENT TO ASK THAT WE ALL AGREE TO DISAGREE.
I will go and ahead and take the deletion of my post as confirmation of my suspicions.
If cbs, bernero and cast and crew and writers are reading this post, it doesnt seem like it.
Happy birthday Paget Brewster!
Happy Birthday Matthew Gray Gubler!
I wanted to say that the writers need to get a lot more consistent on this show since its not a soap opera and it used to be a great show!
Also, I noticed that when JJ became a more central character and they started to show more of what she can contribute, though it was evident from day 1, the show really started to get the family feel going and when Emily came, the family feel and the friednships became more apparent. By the middle of the third season with Rossi on the show, the BAU family was solidified and complete.
\i really liked how JJ's pregnancy was added to the show, it was an interestin and organic idea and it flowed great plus made way for some interesting oppurtuinties and showed how vital JJ and her role on the team are. I also really liked how JJ chose not to get married and has been painted as a contemporary and strong woman on the show. I really liked how Emily has storylines where we get to see her outsider past. I wish we saw more with other characters as well. \these little things show how great the show can be and how great the writing can be.
I think that making Reid the exception to the BAU and even bothering to introduce Ashley at all is leeway enough. I will never accept how horribly Seaver is written. I would rather the show just be an all male cast then keep Ashley if Paget and AJ are truly not coming back.
I will not watch a sausage fest.Just because you don't like a character that is minimal.
Nichols is a regular and should remain. There is no reason to mess it more up just because she has some people that don't like her.
Besides she haven't even had time to prove herself after only 5 episodeso or 6 can't remember. You are writing her off way to early. What is not to say that in the coming episodes they will show us why she belongs here. You don't know that.
Optika, did you go to the threads for Paget and Matthew to wish them a happy birthday? There are threads for them on the blog.
Adam, I disagree completely with what you just wrote, but like Criminal Minds Fan just said on the blog we'll just have to agree to disagree.
I DON'T FOLLOW MANY PEOPLE ON TWITTER NOR AM I OBLIGATED TO FOLLOW ANYONE. I DON'T FOLLOW MOST OF THE WRITERS EITHER. WHAT DIFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE WHETHER I FOLLOW HER OR NOT?
AND FOR THE PERSON ASKING ABOUT RACHEL'S PICTURE.......SHE HAS BEEN INCLUDED IN THE PROMO PICS. I ALWAYS KEEP ONE OUT TO USE FOR AN EPISODE SPOILER THREAD AND IF YOU READ THE BLOG ON A REGULAR BASIS YOU WOULD KNOW THAT ALREADY....BUT
AGAIN, WHERE EXACTLY IS MY OBLIGATION TO DO ANYTHING?
I FOLLOWED HER UNTIL HER TWEETS ON PAGET'S LAST DAY OF SHOOTING ON THE SET. MY PERSONAL DECISION AND IT DOESN'T EFFECT ANYONE ELSE.
Someone mentioned psychology in their post and who had qualifications - wasn't reid studying it in season 4? Not sure if it was at degree level though. Seaver or no Seaver - and by the way some abrasive comments on the difference of opinion around her - The fact is the dynamics of the BAU crew has worked up until now and the audience has bought into their skills and relationships and that's why they've stuck with it for 5 seasons. If you're a doctor or a nurse watching E.R or General Hospital, or a fireman watching backdraft, or a prosecutor watching I dunno Petrochelli or ironside (can't think of a modern one), you will find holes - it's like taking a busman's holiday. The truth is the uninitiated in those given fields generally aren't bothered when it comes to dotting i's and crossing T's as long as it's reasonably easy to believe. It would appear for the majority of people that they can accept the justification for the majority of the team being in the BAU regardless of what the FBI rules of employment are except for Seaver whose character hasn't been strongly written or given the impetus needed to be accepted as a sensible addition to the team. Others have hoep for the storylines her character might bring and its the storylines that matter. The untimely exists of Prentis and JJ and the circumstances behind them is raw to most fans so the introduction of Seaver which it almost looks like they are trying to keep low profile for now - is going to hit those raw nerves. I guess for the majority - and I apreciate not all - the long run depends on our ability to heal.
A Claddagh is an Irish friendship ring - not sure about the whole baby thing - bit too far fetched but who knows, I think Doyle was either lighting a candle for Prentis and it was her birthday or their anniversary of sorts, or for someone they both had in common who died - perhaps at Prentis hands Perhaps not - the story will unfold and it looks like not even Prentis knows everything and has been kept in the dark!
Adam,
I needed less than 6 episodes to be in love with Prentiss and Rossi. That's why I think 6 episodes are enough to make an statement about Seaver. My opinion is that she should be off. She just doesn't suit, and apparently most people can feel it. She is like an onion between apples.
Thanks for explaining. I didn't know about the promo pics.
Was there something about the tweets that was upsetting?
The reason I bring it up is because I consider this blog to be something of a media outlet regarding CM news. If it was a personal fan blog, that would be one thing, but it has become something more and I think with that comes a certain duty to be fair with the coverage. There are Seaver fans out there, so if she is going to be omitted from the blog that's fine, but let's be up front about it so we can go elsewhere for our Seaver news.
Out of curiosity, have you seen the recent interviews with MGG and RN? I ask because they contain info I think a lot of Reid fans would be interested in knowing...
wait, so the picture that's going to be used for the "Lauren" spoiler thread is going to be the Seaver picture? seems like one of Prentiss would be more fitting
WE HAVE SOMETHING SPECIAL PLANNED FOR PAGET FOR THAT DAY. SHE IS A PERSONAL FRIEND AND SHE WILL BE THE STAR OF THE DAY FOR SURE!
I SUGGEST THAT PEOPLE MAKE THEIR OWN JUDGEMENT ON CHARACTERS AND ACTORS AND ALSO REMEMBER THAT THIS IS A TV SHOW.
ANYMORE ATTACKS ON ME AND I WILL CLOSE THE THREAD. I DON'T WANT TO BE DRAWN INTO THE BACK AND FORTH THAT IS GOING ON HERE.
I RESPECT THAT YOU ALL HAVE STRONG OPINIONS REGARDING SEAVER BUT MY OWN OPINION IS PERSONAL.
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