Criminal Minds spoiler thread for "Valhalla" starring Joe Mantegna, Thomas Gibson, Paget Brewster, Shemar Moore, Matthew Gray Gubler and Kirsten Vangsness.
**Beware! There will be spoilers in the comments :)
*** Thomas Gibson donated two Valhalla scripts for our ACS auctions: http://shop.ebay.com/bigcmfan1/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=
552 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 400 of 552 Newer› Newest»My Two Cents, they showed JJ's first episode on ion last night. She came in right away saying what she was going to do, set up press conferences, call the police, etc, she even told Elle that she will usually not be in her office because she will be out taking care of all of the communication and media things that the team needs. She told Elle that the best way for her to reach her was on the phone. LOL, Elle's face was classic when she heard JJ say that to her, LOL Of course, JJ said that as she was rushing off to take care of business.
It's sad that the answer to a crappy character with a crappy start is time. Nothing else is approached that way, don't see why it has to start now. Also, people should not take for granted that what is up won't go down.
I hope that CBS and CM use common sense and use the time that they have wisely in trying to get AJ back, in praying that Paget returns, in building up the writing, and in removing a crappy character, or if Paget does not return, in developing one that doesn't have to be swallowed like a bitter pill.
Thank you Fedra, that is a classic CM scene.
Charlie, a character actually has to show what they are going to be bringing to the table in order to fit in. Characters dont just fit in and then show what they have to bring. That doesnt make sense.
Yes, Cm holds interest but becuase of the original cast, not Seaver. But apparently CM has lost many viewers since JJ left and since Seaver arrived to annoy the hell outta people.
On a side note, I think in the next episode JJ will be a pentagon rep for the joint task force. I cant wait to see how the next episode plays out but at the same time my stomeache is in knots over this twisted situation. Lauren will be a crucial episode in CM history.
Does anyone know exactly what job JJ was "promoted" too? It wasnt mentioned exactly. JJ is just too hard for me to watch.
I am still kind of rooting for a Reid and JJ relationship because that is something that could have been developed.
You know what's kinda ironic? The fact that this was Prentiss' penultimate episode, it was almost entirely focused on Prentiss, it was brilliant, emotional, dramatic, etc...
And yet, most of the comments are about every tiny thing Seaver did. She probably had 5 total minutes of screen time in this episode.
My suggestion? Make a decision to just get over it. You've missed the brilliance of this episode if you were so focused on Seaver that you had to come onto this thread and post a 10 page manifesto on how you slow-mo'd the Seaver scenes and impute laziness by the fact that she was bending over at one point. It's ridiculous. I'm sick of it. You're all digging yourselves further and further into irrationality. Maybe you should take a break for a couple of weeks and come back when you can handle a bit of change on a TV show.
I think it will be that too. They set that up with all of the different agencies at the office. Can't wait to see AJ/JJ again :)
My two cents
what are you talking about?
CM hasn't lost any viewers at all. it is still up in 14-15 million area
Anonymous.. people did mention Prentiss, but they are upset, do you get that, upset that when Prentiss leaves Seaver will be all that is left as a female agent. So no, they are not going to get over it and it doesn't take away from their love of Prentiss in this episode and as a character as a whole.
Plus, I hardly think that you are in any position, and neither am I, to dictate what people should focus on in an episode.
anonymous
you are so right this seaver hate is beyond ridiculous she isn't even a central character this is an ensemble cast. Let it play out because she isn't even slowing the show down
It has Charlie, it has lost about 2million viewers on average. This week it went up to 13, but on average it has been about 12. That is not a bad number, but it has gone down and that is something that they should keep in check before it goes down any further. You can easily check the ratings numbers over time on line by doing a search.
I could really care less whether the Seaver characters stays or goes, but to be fair, JJ and Prentiss were both badly written characters too, which is why the network decided they were expendable. With the exception of the last few episodes, Emily's never been given much more to do than Seaver has been given to do and neither has JJ for that matter. They've just been around forever and are familiar so their mediocrity was acceptable.
The show could've gone on just fine without axing those two characters, just as it's going on just fine even with the axing of the two characters. It's proven to be little more than a lateral move on CBS's part and I would guess would be considered a bad decision considering all the drama the decision has caused and did absolutley nothing to improve what really didn't need improving.
But that's the way business works. Sometimes the decisions are good and everything works out and sometimes the decisions are just a waste of eveyone's time. I think the show will be just fine next season whether they go with Seaver or whether they were to get Prentiss and JJ back. As long as the show runners get to work with some stability instead of the upset that's been going on all season, I think Season 7 will do okay.
Everytine you use the word hate, you just strengthen our arguments, so go ahead, use that word over and over because it reveals the lack if strength in your argument.
Fedra
American Idol has lost viewers to almost ALL shows lose viewers over time. Of course CM also will lose a little. But its not because of the stories on the show. It is mostly to increasing DVR and downloading
JJ and Prentiss were badly written characters????? Ah yes, that is why there is such an outpouring for those badly written characters to come back.. okay.... Perhaps the show will continue to do well but it will be degraded by a truly poorly written character, Seaver....
Ok whatever, people like Charlie wont have their minds changed because but neither will people like me when it comes to Seaver. And I agree with My tow cents, it has been mentioned beofre that viewrs went down by two to three million when JJ left and CM used to be at 16 million or something.
Words cannot explain how great paget's performance was in Valhaala, and yes, I do agree with anonymous to an extent becuase I know that I am one of those people but I also agree with Kathleen because I dont want to be left with Seaver. I dont really count Garcia.
I have mentioned in my previous posts how great Emily was and how I will miss her so much. Emily is also a great television role model and these past few epsidoes have made a lot more sense out of her character. JJ mentioned in Revelations in the second season how Emily was so calm, how nothing got to her and int the second season finale, it was mentioned by Strauss that Emily was thought to be too reckless to be in the BAU. I remember Emily's first episode. She was only in two scenes but she cemented her character in those two scenes. Emily gave a great profile, is a fast thinker and said she belonged in this unit. Emily proved that she is a fighter and she wont give up. In her next two episodes, she proved that she is practically a master of languages and she was so humble and grateful to be on the team. She wanted to prove herself and she did. In the next episode, she said she hated politics and it was implied that she has parental issues. There are still so many unanswered questions about Emily's past and the rest of the TRUE CRIMINAL MINDS cast from season 5. So much backstory needs to be explained. I am going to miss Emily so much!
I love how truly poised and sophisticated Emily is, how calm she is, how she really is looking out for the saftey of her team, the fear in her eyes about being in danger and putting others in danger. I felt so bad for her when she saw Tsia and I felt so bad for Tsia. Tsia was actually a very interesting character and it really sucked that she was killed off.
I wonder where Emily has been staying since she left her apartment and what was the significance of the gold necklace?
It has Charlie, it has lost about 2million viewers on average. This week it went up to 13, but on average it has been about 12. That is not a bad number, but it has gone down and that is something that they should keep in check before it goes down any further. You can easily check the ratings numbers over time on line by doing a search.
Actually the average for Season 6 to date is 13.83 million which is higher than the average amount of viewers for seasons 1, 3 and 5 and close to Season 2's average of 14.01. Season 4 was their highest ranked season with an average of 14.89 viewers. All in all the show has remained pretty steady over the past six years.
Where do you get that reasoning from Charlie? Yes, all shows lose viewers over time, that is just natural, but they lose viewers because people lose interest, because characters get axed, because story lines get weak, because people are no longer plugged into the show. Plus, DVR is also being used as a ratings mechanism, and you can't download episodes of CM unless you go onto a place like iTunes, or find a spot where you can, which is difficult for some as you are not really supposed to download this show unless it is via an authorized site like iTunes.
American Idol was bound to lose viewers there is only so many times people can see a singing contest. Over time, it will continue to lose more viewers because people will have moved on from a singing contest.
Yes, it has been steady, but it has lost viewers which is natural over time. The issue is to make sure that poor decisions don't continue to decrease numbers over time. It is by no means in trouble now, not at all, but they have to make sure that it stays that away, not make decisions that can lead to an unnecessary decrease because of poor choices.
JJ and Emily were both great characters and greatly written but they were shafted and occasionally given little to do. But they were beyond three dimensioanl and had great potential. If they hadnt then why would 50,000+ people sign a petetion for them to stay? Why are people still wanting them back?
By that logic, every character would be badly writeen on CM becuase they have all been shafted from time to time and given less to do than what they should. Right now it is Hotch. TPTB seem to be losing their minds becasue Hotch is a background character right now and he shouldnt be, neither should Reid.
Overall, CM has lost viewers but its been steady enough. Lets just focus on trying to get JJ and Emily back and maybe getting Seaver on the spinoff. If Seaver goes on the spinoff, its a win-win situation.
So long as Emily and JJ come back.
The fourth season was also the best season.
Lastly, what I am saying is that no show is immune from a slip (sometimes a drastic slip) and as such you have to be mindful of what you are adding in and taking out. Decisions are not made in a vaccum, and again, as such, should be made carefully and thoughtfully.
Lastly, what I am saying is that no show is immune from a slip (sometimes a drastic slip) and as such you have to be mindful of what you are adding in and taking out. Decisions are not made in a vaccum, and again, as such, should be made carefully and thoughtfully.
This is true, but it's not true for network television where a large majority of the decisions made appear to be knee-jerk reactions and of course there is always the danger of CM suddenly slipping in the ratings, but I think that's going to have more to do with how good the stories they're presenting every week are and less to do with which actors are playing the FBI agents. All of the actors/characters are probably expendable because it's not serial charcter driven drama. It's not Hotch's story or Reid's story or Rossi's story. They're just characters plugged in to tell the story of the week.
sf81387,
if Hotch, prentiss, Reid and company were just characters plugged int to tell the story of the week would you still watch?
Do you think that the show would be the same if everyone was replaced?
What about the Foyet storylines? That was personal for Hotch and 100 was a magnificent episode.
What about Frank Breitkopf in season 2? And the Prince of Darkness is seasno 5 for Morgon? What about the effect that these cases area having on the team members like Reid's mysterious headaches? What about what made them who they are?
Would thaey have added Aj Cook's pregnancy to the storyline if they were just characters plugged in to tell the story?
Thats very narrow minded. You might as well say that we are people plugged into the earth just to make the world go round.
The characters matter. Its how they intereact and handle what goes on in the show, all the cases and what not. Its the dynamic of the show. Characters always matter.
I'm just happy that the team is finally talking to each other about their personal problems instead of just giving each other puzzled looks.
It's ironic that it took CBS showing Paget the door to get her an episode that shows off her acting chops.
Lin from Ohio: TY for info re: Emily taking ring/necklace from safe & flushing. I'm sure this will be explained later as well as her relationship with Doyle. Hope??
Also am wondering what she was looking for in the desk drawer?
Loved all the Prentiss moments, esp the one with our baby boy Reid. He is so sensitive and sweet, I feel the need to hold him close and make all the hurt and previous life-trauma go away. So happy he is comfy talking to Prentiss and love that he notices her habit of biting her nails: poor thing has a BAD habit, in real life as well, and they have incorporated it into the show -LOVE it. Makes it more real.
Hard to believe that Prentiss and Morgan were left unscathed by the overkill, massive shoot-out with the bad guys using auto-weapons - a bit over the top but all in all, a very suspenseful epi again.
Many questions remain unanswered and I am willing to bet we will never know about some things, but I need to keep reminding myself, it's TV.
I will go find the place to give feedback to CBS later.
And, sorry, Charlie, but everyone is right: the character Seaver is NOT a fit, she is NOT going to get any better no matter how much time passes. This is a L---- and never gonna work. No hate here, just plain and simple facts and I didn't even call any names:)
It is the character's stories as much as it is the case itself and the story of the week. It may not be the Hotch show or the Prentiss show but the show works becuase its the BAU family and they do this together. Its an ensemble cast but lately its been segragated since JJ left...since Seaver arrived...I know I wouldnt continue watching the show if it werent for the characters.
If you want to watch for the story, watcha documentary or something. Fiction requires somekind of connection to the characters. Thats the point.
Sure the premise of Criminal Minds sounds interesting on its own without throwing the characters into the mix but at the same time, the characters are why we stay with the show. We all have a favorite.
gubegirl,
you just have to scroll to the bottom of any cbs page and you'll see Feedback.
I really hope it works and I totally agree with you.
Well here is one who have nothing against seaver don't see why there is such an uproar for one tiny character on a show that has always been made up from an ensemble cast lol. Its getting totally out of proportion
Can I just say that I am happy to figure out who Anderson is, LOL.. I kind of thought it was who sdwally said it was, but I wasn't sure. Sdwally, thanks for jogging my memory and the comparsion to Anderson and Seaver was spot on. Glorified gopher indeed!
I am as angry and sad that Paget is not only leaving the show (I don't think that she is coming back and I don't blame her) but that it took so long for them to highlight this gifted actresses talent. I thought that the moment between her and Reid was just truly splendid and her moment with Rossi reminded me when she told him "Don't Emily me." Morgan and Prentiss, that moment was like two old friends who don't really have to say much to one another, they just know, and to see Morgan reach out like that to Prentiss was wonderful. The moment with Prentiss and Garcia was a little bit bizarre to me, as was Garcia's moment in the coffee shop with the reporter. I too found it strange that there was no Hotch and Prentiss moment, not a romantic one, I do not like the idea of inter-team romances (please don't ever do that CM- these people are a family). For me, it was strange that there was no moment between these two because this is a relationship that grew from one of suspicion and having to prove oneself (Prentiss, despite being more than qualified for the BAU, unlike Seaver, had to prove her worth to be on the team, and prove it she did) to one of mutal respect and family connection.I do hope that something is written in the next episode, however, it seems like there maybe won't be an opportunity for that which is a shame. Also, I didn't quite like how Prentiss was snapping at people during the show, although I do understand, but wish she had confided in her family, Hotch, Reid, Morgan, Garcia or Rossi.
I am looking forward to JJ coming back for the Lauren episode but am so very sad that Paget, due to CBS' horrendus treatment of her, is exiting the show. She will indeed leave a big hole that Garcia and the men will have to hustle to fill as Seaver has no chance in hell of slipping even one toe into Prentiss' shoes, let alone JJ's. What comes next for Criminal Minds, I don't know. CBS has done such a thorough job at slashing this show to bits that I can't even think of what the show will look like moving forward the way it has been set up to, and for that matter, whether I will be able to stomach what the show may be reduced to.
Someone said it earlier, but it bears repeating again. CBS is the lowest of the low and I can say with certainity that it has not only lost me as a future viewer of anything CBS related, but that it has lost my trust, respect, faith and confidence in anything that has to do with the network.
Thats very narrow minded.
Optika, why do you feel the need to resort to personal insults just because someone sees something differently than you do? But since you brought it up, I don't think I'm the one who is being narrow-minded.
Oh, and just because you all seem to think that my open-minded approach to what's been going on is somehow a reflection of how I personally feel about the characters, I'll answer your question. No, I would not continue to watch Criminal Minds if Hotch left, but I know that the world does not revolve around me or my feelings and therefore have no expectation that the show would end just because I decided to turn the channel.
The point is that anyone at any time can sit down and tune into an episode of Criminal Minds without needing to know the background on the characters, whereas a show like Mad Men or LOST is all about the characters and the way their personal stories fold into the fabric of the main story being told. Case in point. It became evident by the end of Season 3 of LOST that the Jack character was the center of the story being told, which allowed for the actor playing Jack to ask for and get a very healthy raise during the hiatus because there was no way the story could go on without the character. Criminal Minds is not like that.
I did not like the decision to ax JJ and Prentiss, but I go along with it because it does me no good to be upset about it. It doesn't mean I hated the characters or don't care what happened, which I've been accused of because I can't seem to muster up the energy be all dramatic over it.
If CBS and Thomas Gibson can't reach an agreement, it'll suck for me, but odds are that the show would go on just fine without him and I have no delusions otherwise. I'm not being narrow-minded, I'm just being realistic.
Kelly, forgive me, but I will say what I darn well please about any character that I so chose to. And yes, that charater is totally insignificant and as such should be written out as the insignificant character that she is; Criminal Minds needn't shoulder any insignificant, useless characters.
A concerned viewer for all the hate on this new character.
I have something kind of important to say on a totally different note, also...Seaver.
Alot of people, myself included, have been hating on Seaver alot. I don't completely love her, but I was thinking about it, and she must be getting a lot of hate from hardcore AJ Cook/ JJ fans, and from some Prentiss fans, too. That must suck, you know. So I'm not saying you have to love her, but I'm suggesting maybe holding back on all the hating. And this isn't everyone hating on her, as you know.
Thanks, guys!
Kaitilin
I really enjoyed this episode.It was so intense. I loved all interactions between characters.
Again I must say I don´t like Seaver because I simply think she doesn´t belong there. I can block her now (I even close my eyes everytime she appears in opening credicts)but once Paget is gone, I´m afraid she gets more screen time and gets something to do, that I don´t think I can handle ... sad
Kaityln, can you define hating? Because if by hating you mean pointing out the obvious flaws of that character and why it isn't a good idea for the show, then I am sorry, but that is called criticism, and rightly deserved in my opinion. Of course, it is my opinion that is shared by others. Feel free to disagree, or agree, but I don't see that as hate.
I am not trying to be snippy, but I would really like to know what you mean by that.
Thank you.
All good dramas have a recurring internal story often called the mythology. X Files / abducted sister, Law & Order, CI/ Goren & Nicole, CSI Miami/Horatio & Resden, etc The emergence of Emily and her dark past has been hinted for some time. Almost teasingly the tension rose episode by episode until the chilling outdoors meeting. Now the story takes wings and flies as one by one her enemy kills all who knew her in her former life. Prentiss was superb - lots of subtlety and nuance. The only question is when does the rest of the team find out. Great episode. Unlike some shows, Prentiss and her story unknowingly became the "case" for the rest of the team - great integration of plot lines. Also to note Seaver doesn't bother me one bit the show is still great with her on it. Can't wait until next time.
Overall, I think it was a really good episode with lots of suspense. Prentiss did an amazing acting job. Loved the Reid/Prentiss moment, and that we are seeing a continuation of Reid's headaches, but it better not turn out to be anything really bad!! I like that Morgan is continuing with his softer side.
However, it still irritates the heck out of me that useless Seaver is still there doing nothing but taking camera time and lines away from the rest of the cast.
I also want Garcia to go back into her computer room. That is where I love her doing her computer magic, not being in on the profiling.
And to those that keep comparing Prentiss & JJ leaving to Gideon. Mandy Pitikin wanted out. Paget & AJ did not! It was a beyond stupid move of CBS to eliminate JJ and limit Prentiss' episodes....for what? to bring in another female character that does not fit in and has no credibility and only detracts from the BAU team.
That dialogue between prentiss and penelope was interrupted by seaver awkwardly running into the bathroom. I almost threw something at my tv since i wanted the scene to continue. but, seaver did allow me some relief :) from all that nonstop crying.
WHERE WAS HER SCENE WITH HOTCH? she has a laugh with morgan in the car, that sweet convo with reid, that emotional confession of nightmares etc with Garcia, a fun little dialogue with Rossi in the elvator and then she leaves WHAT ABOUT HOTCH..
sf81387,
I did not mean my comment as a personal insult and I really dont think it was written that way so I am sorry if you interpreted it as so. But I stand by my opinion and I got my answer. I have stated all my opinions with as much evidence that I can think of.
To clear up this matter, I thought you were being narrow minded in this instance and becuase I disagreed and offered up why I disagree. I understand people see things differently than I do, but that doesnt mean I wont try to change their mind. But I will back up what I say and if you still feel strongly about your opinion than thats you.
For the record, if TG didnt come back then yes, realistically he would be replaced but then that would be my final straw. I wouldnt watch anymore and I am still hoping for a permanemt reurn of AJ and Emily's characters.
Side note,
I really want to know what Hotch's reaction will be to Emily's secret. That was just unfair. Not having a momnet between the two of them but Hotch hasnt been having a moment with anyone lately and that should change asap.
There is an article confirming that RN will be in GI Joe 2. Hopefully itll take up a lot of her schedule and she'll have to leave CM cuz I dont like her one bit. She says she loves “playing women who have something extraordinary in their life.” SHe sure as hell doesnt know how to play them though. But its not completely her fault. They tend to be badly wirtten. RN should stick to movies. I actually like tv better and think tv actresses are better for the most part than movie actresses.
Keep Paget and AJ on. They were so great and they are strong women.Them and thier characters. They both had/have so much to offer on CM and the show isnt the same without AJ and it wont be the same with paget gone too and now Thomas Gibson and Shemar Moore.
Any word?
I thought this episode was poingant. We saw Emily slowly unravel over the episode as she investigated each new death, especially Tsia's.
Her snappiness towards Garcia was uncharacteristic leading to the explanation of the 'nightmare' so she could tell Garcia how she truly felt about her.
I loved her moment with Reid when she sensed something was wrong and he finally admitted to her about his headaches while he noted that she was picking at her nails, which she did when she was stressed. These people are family, they know each other so well.
The final moment when she looked around at each team/family member before she walked out the door was touching. I can't wait for Lauren.
Charlie,
About Seaver, everyone seems to think that it’s all because of losing JJ that we, at least I, don’t like her. It’s not true, but putting her beside AJ/JJ in this next episode is not likely to help us like her when we see what we’re missing. You keep saying to give her time. I didn’t have to give Paget or Joe time when they joined the cast. When Prentiss picked up that letter in her first case and started reading in Arabic, you just knew this girl had the goods to be there. Same with Rossi, he knew what he was doing from the get go and I just love the way he talks to “Erin”. You just have to love him when he’s in that debriefing in 100 and he’s looking at his PDA, “Gold’s still going up.” He cracks me up. They’ve garnered our love and respect, but Seaver, I just cringe whenever I see that she’s about to open her mouth. I think it's just that the character is so ill-conceived or inadequate for the part. Perhaps if I saw RN in another role that made sense I would like her.
Interesting article about Rachel Nichols. Here are some quotes c + p here:
PW: What was about it Ashley that clicked for you?
Rachel: There are a lot of similarities with us. I mean, obviously my father is not a serial killer. At least not to my knowledge [laughs]. I also love playing women who have something extraordinary in their life.
PW: And it's good to see a gun back in your hands!
Rachel: I would joke with everyone – I’ve played FBI, CIA, LAPD and it just feels right. I'm happy to be back fighting for freedom!
PW: Growing up, did you have any real law enforcement aspirations?
Rachel: No. I grew up in Maine and my dad always says that I was ready for college in kindergarten. So from a very young age I was very excited about school. I went to Columbia with visions of briefcase, powersuits and Wall Street. Like everybody else I had read the bible that is “Liar’s Poker” and being a banker sounded so cool, so flash. Obviously I’ve taken a very different path, but it was never going to be crime fighting. Even though one of my favorite movies of all time is “Silence of the Lambs.”
PW: Well there are shades of Clarice Starling in a lot of your roles.
Rachel: I think there’s some Clarice in me – "The Inside" was a lot like that, and I’m literally now realizing how much of her there is in my work [laughs].
She knows that she is constantly ripping off Silenece of the Lambs in one way or another... maybe she should stop since it isnt working out. SHe was ok in Alias, and she was ok in GI Joe. At least she had a lot more to offer in those tow things. SHe sucked on The Inside, but the show itself was badly written. And she sucks even more on Criminal mInds. Character wise I mean. I doubt she'll ever even be emmy worthy. I really want her off the show.
Here is a link to the original
http://www.nypost.com/p/blogs/popwrap/rachel_nichols_not_father_knowledge_yOq9pqj06mtuRvKrQICMWK
I cant believe she would actually joke about her father not being a serial killer...as far as I know.
Poor choice and bad form to be quoted on that too.
She basically sticks to the same type of stuff. Barely any range.
yeah we get you don't like her one bit.
Newsflash. somehere actually like her i know its hard for you to understand.
Nichols is a fine actress and she was great on the Inside. She will be good on Minds also in time.
And she actually sounds sweet in that interview. So what if she gets a little type casted. Many actors is being type casted it isn't their fault. Ever here of Zach Galifianakis he is also a victim of type casting.
Jacob,
please dont take my comments out of proportion and please dont make this about Rachel's sweet persoanlity. Thats what people have ended up doing to justify why she belongs on the show and she doesnt. You havent given a reason as to why Seaver is a good character either.
I only posted up those quotes because it shows that she has no range and knows that she plays a lot of SIlence of the Lamb wannabe roles. SHe may think about it differently but you cant get typecasted on a role you suck at.
If the Inside was so great, why did it get cancelled?
Rn was good enough on Alias and GI Joe though but she isnt good on CM. Not entirely her falut, her characters were both badly written though were interesting enough ideas. Notice that I am pointing out the distinctions here please.
RN may be sweet but she is not a fine actress in my opinion. If you think she is then whatever. i dont persoanlly care about if you think she's a good actress. I care about how she does not belong on the show because of her crappy character.
well all the great shows get canceled. Twin Peaks, Jericho, Millennium, Carnivale and the list goes on and on. The Inside was just ahead of its time
Jacob,
The Inside was a great idea but it was badly wirtten and the entire cast chemistry was off. Not all great shows get cancelled. SOme genuinly suck. Angel started off great but got cancelled in the fifth season becuase then it started to suck.
I agree that some great shows get cancelled, but not all. I have never seen the shows you mentioned but I have seen The Inside. Although I am upset that Terminator The Sarah COnnor Chronicles got cancelled. i really liked it.
I hope that Suspect Behavior gets cancelled. I checked it out. It sucks.
I can agree with you on suspect behavior.
But i can't agree with you abot The Inside being bad. It was a great show and many already considers it to be a bit of a cult show
Let me explain why I think that both Rebecca Locke and Ashley Seaver are badly written characters. Considering thier circumstances, RL was kidnapped for months and AS had a serial killer father, if I were to write them or any good writer, they should be tough badass strong women who dont take crap, dont get either consistely takenhostage or practiccaly run to a killers house. Both RL and AS were more cry babyish then they should have been. Neither character was strong or admirable and both were Clarice Starling ripoffs.
I do think that Rn was good enough on Alias and should have been allowed to see if she could at least carry the show. Not that her character on the show Rachel Gibson was a true badass but she had her moments and was more tolerable and better wirtten that Ashley Seaver. ALthough even Rachel Gibson was a ripoff of Jennifer garner. Still... Rn was interesting enough on Gi Joe.
I am open minded enough to find a middle ground. But I know that I will never beleive in Ashley Seaver ever belonging on CM at the very least, becuase of the way she has been written.
Ok Jacob, to each his own.
Like I said, it was a great idea but the overall cast wasnt working for me and it wasnt very well written in my opinion and the epsidoes werent that great overall.
Just so you know, I rewatched the entire thrieteen episodes before RN actually appeared on Criminal Minds. At first I wasnt exactly thrilled about her being on the show but I decided to give her a chance and she dissapointed me and many others. I think that she should stick to roles like Scarlett in GI Joe.
Let me ask this, if it wasnt Rachel Nichols playing Ashley Seaver, would you still accept the actual character of Ashley Seaver? If it was someone else playing her?
I wonder if JJ will somehow help Emily fake her death in next week's episode?
Check this RN article.
yeah i like Nichols always have. But i still think people are writing of Seaver way to early.
I am sure of that the writers have something up their sleeves for this character to make her more interesting, they always do.
It'd be interesting if they write her off; it is a horrible character, beyond any type of repair and insufferable to have to sit through and watch. People have said that they are able to block her out, please share your technique for doing that with me. I'm being totally serious about that, no joking.
Anonymous, that could be depending on what type of connections JJ has at the Department of Defense.
Still disagree with you Jacob, but like I said, to each his or her own.
If she had anything to contribute, something-snything would have shown at least in a shade by now. Or at least in her arc, after all it was designed for her being an "arc" and all but lets just leave it at that because I want JJ and Emily to come back forever and I want the cm cast of season 5 becuase it was perfect the way it was. Seaver can be a recurring character as long as JJ and Emily are here to stay but I want JJ and Emily back.
By the way, my feelings are separated from AJ and paget's situation about being fired. Nothing to do with Seaver just for the record.
ALso, Jacob,
you didnt actually answer my question about if you would still like Seaver if it werent RN playing the character. I get that you may not want to "betray" an actor you really like by disliking their character. I feel the same about certain actors sometimes.
But does an FBI cadet soon to be a rookie agent really belong on the supposedly elite and experience BAU team, especially given that Emily had to practically leap tall buildings to prove herself and Hotch's whole stance on it? Just try to separate Seaver from RN and let me know.
I am curious as well to find out exactly what JJ's position is as well. They never said and I really miss her!
Charlie said...
why does she needs to go. if the show is still good the episode yesterday was amazing, and Seaver did NOT bring it down.
So why does she need to go. It is still very good with her there.
Uhh, you REALLY need to learn what an opinion is - and how to learn to deal with the fact that yours is very much in the minority.
Lost was still good when Nikki and Paolo were on, and yet you might want to google the reactions about them - and ultimately happened to their characters because of it.
As to the "hate on Seaver is out of proportion" arguments, well I'll start listening to them when we start hearing the "Love for Reid is out of proportion" complaints, since it's the exact same issue.
Yeah, I know. I'm gonna be waiting a *long* time for THAT Reid "backlash." :D
I know this is not about Criminal Minds, but its about the lovely rachel nichols who is on CM.
She just tweeted the latest about the GI Joe 2 debacle.
""GI JOE 2 News Flash: The only characters to return in the JON CHU directed sequel will be SNAKE EYES, STORM SHADOW, and DUKE...""
Are they serious continuing this franchise without all the characters we know. Damn that director they got for the sequel got to be dumber than a bag of hammers.
I wish she had gotten picked up, then she could have possibly had a conflict and left CM, for good!
To Pat,
I love the way Rossi speaks to Erin as well! Cracks me up too :)
Kevin,
google RN because there are a couple of articles that imply she is in the sequel. Recent articles too. Its probably not a done decision yet. I think she has a contract.
Secretly I am hoping that she is in GI Joe and that they film for a long time so that RN has to quit CM becuase Ashley Seaver sucks.
But all the best to RN and hopefully she is in GI Joe, for her sake.
Not like I am wishing her outta every job, just the one on CM.
Go Blue Sunflower! You are right. People are still praying for JJ and Emily to come back fulltime and for some Hotch love and everyone else!
Got i am getting tired of this Seaver rant. Give her a chance to evolve as a character!
God, Anonymous, I hope you are right and it is not a done deal and that she is cast and there is some type of conflict so we can be spared of the Seaver character come season 7.
Hi, I read your comments on here a lot, but I don't usually post. I was just wondering if anyone else picked up on something I noticed last night.
The ring that Emily flushed is a claudaugh (I may have spelled that wrong) and is worn different ways to symbolize different stages of commitment between a couple. Many couples use it instead of a wedding ring.
That paired with Emily's dream of a 6 year old girl and Doyle lighting a candle for someone's birthday makes me wonder if she was so deep under that she was married and had a child with him?
I assume that she left her safe open so the team can access the files inside, but she flushed the ring because she's ashamed of just how far she went with him.
Did anyone else notice this or am I just so nervous/excited that my mind is going a little crazy? Thanks.
Chances, shouldn't have to give these many chances to a character. The character is horrible and needs to go bye bye immediately.
Belinda said..
"Chances, shouldn't have to give these many chances to a character. The character is horrible and needs to go bye bye immediately."
Yes, a million times yes!!!
ctls, hmm, not sure. Didn't she clean out the safe?
reidforever.. see My Two Cents post a few posts above yours..
"a character actually has to show what they are going to be bringing to the table in order to fit in. Characters dont just fit in and then show what they have to bring. That doesnt make sense."
Thank you for that My Two Cents, totally true. The character is a total zero.
Below is the direct link to the CBS Feedback Form for anyone who's interested:
http://www.cbs.com/info/user_services/fb_global_form.php
reidforever said...
Got i am getting tired of this Seaver rant. Give her a chance to evolve as a character!
Sorry but she's had around 5 episodes to establish her character by now. That's more than enough time to form an opinion about her.
When trying to convince me to start drinking coffee, my mom told me coffee is an acquired taste. My response: then why would I want to acquire it? That just means I have to spend time drinking something I still think tastes like mud. This is TV, not coffee.
I have no desire to waste my time watching a character I like. I certainly don't want the show to waste time on her particularly when it takes away from the characters I DO like to watch.
Time making people like Seaver = less time on ALREADY ESTABLISHED AND VIEWER CONNECTED characters people already like. Or even, y'know plot development, instead of the "let's stop everything so we can explain something to Newbie Know-Nothing."
So no. Criminal Minds needs to boot Seaver ASAP IMO. She's not needed, completely nonsensical, and takes away from the relationships the viewers want to see instead. Seaver = waste of precious CM time.
yeah you say that. But do you people that keep ranting on and on about her realize that there is viewers and people that like her. But you don't give a rats ass about them. That is selfish!
she has plenty of fans its just the negativity always shines more through it always has
Umm, isn't it selfish on your part to keep on trying to make people somehow accept Seaver when they don't and can't because of the nonsenscial and useless nature of her character?
When the character is taking away from the things that Blue Sunflower mentioned, the other characters people tune in week after week to see, plot development, etc., that is not a good situation for the show and certianly not the show. 5 episodes is more than enough time to establish if the character fits and makes sense in the grand scheme of the show. It shouldn't take more than that, or a whole season, that is ridiculous. The arc, if this was a half way plausible character, should have established some connection and need for this character on the show. It didn't, and so to keep dragging this on week after week is sheer torture and needs to stop.
I meant to write that it is not a good situatin for the viewer and certainly not the show.
I am certain that she has a lot of fans, but the majority of CM fans have largely spoken across the board and while she may be a lovely individual, for this show, the character she plays is not a good fit. If CBS and CM are wise, they will listen, for once to what the fans are trying to tell them. The didn't listen with respect to the writers, and look where that has led. They didn't listen about JJ, look where that has led. They listened about Paget too late, and look where that has led. They must start listening to us now, they simply must. Their track record when don't listen to us is not good.
It's obvious Seaver is here to stay as she is in the opening credits, so suck it up people.
Ranting and raving about her is not going to change the minds of the powers that be! Besides, there are plenty of other things in the world to get in a tizzy about! And it is just a TV show. It's not the end of the world as we know it!
No Anonymous, that is not true. Fan input, while not always taken, on many occassions, is taken. Even if it wasn't, people have a right to express their concern and displeasure with what is going on with the show. If we were simply to "suck it up," no one would bother commenting here. They would sions ia taken. imply accept everything that comes out of CBS and CM. We are the consumers and as such we should speak out no matter what the outcome.
Goodness, I am throwing out typos all over the place tonight. Sorry.. I meant to write "They would simply accept..."
Most definitely one of my fave episodes of the season. Paget Brewster was amazing and I've enjoyed her storyline, although I do NOT want her to leave the show. IMHO, her character is integral to cm as the strong, validated female lead agent.
I was disappointed though, that the writers deliberately allowed Emily to touch/talk to all of the team on an intimate, sharing basis EXCEPT Hotch! This is ridiculous. After Prentiss helped Hotch following Faceless/Nameless, it would only be natural for these 2 characters to share something! It doesn't have to mean shipping. Give the audience some credit.
Still not enough Hotch, although I enjoyed his actually being allowed to be Unit Chief at the profile briefing. But he needed no-one to go with him to question the secret agents, least of all Morgan. *rolls eyes*
Good job, Erica & Simon. You do Emily justice.
reidforever said...
yeah you say that. But do you people that keep ranting on and on about her realize that there is viewers and people that like her. But you don't give a rats ass about them. That is selfish!
"The viewers and people that like her" are just as entitled to their opinion as those of us who don't. I may not agree with you but you are totally entitled to your opinion, therefore I do not feel selfish in stating mine. Isn't that what this forum is for? Many of us who have explained ad nauseum why this character makes no sense on the show and is ill-conceived have asked those who are so eager to jump to her defense to give us some reasons why you feel she is so good for the show, other than the plea to give her time, and time and again we get no response. If a person takes a stand on something they should be able to back it up. The AS supporters don't seem to be able to do this, other than to bring up past roles of the actress and how good she was in them. I've never seen her in anything and she may have been excellent in all of them but she's not excellent here because the CHARACTER is so flawed the actress and the writers have a hard time pulling her over the viewers eyes.
reidforever said...
yeah you say that. But do you people that keep ranting on and on about her realize that there is viewers and people that like her. But you don't give a rats ass about them. That is selfish!
Hello, pot. Also, look up Q Scores.
Anonymous said...
It's obvious Seaver is here to stay as she is in the opening credits, so suck it up people.
Ranting and raving about her is not going to change the minds of the powers that be!
Again, I point to Paolo and Nikki as only one example.
Kirsten, I didn't get to see the preview for Lauren. Do they meet up with Prentiss there? Maybe that is when she will have her farewell with Hotch?
Mixed feelings about this one. Loved PB's performance and the progression of her story arc. Hated that Hotch was the ONLY one (way too obvious) not to seem to notice Emily's ooc behaviour and that they didn't get to talk. Very unhappy that Hotch continues to be shoved into the background so that Morgan can be the hero. TG is a stellar actor and deserves better. CM just cannot afford to lose AJ, PB & TG. No TG/Hotch, No CM 4 me.
I don't know what this trend is with causing Hotch to disappear in the background. It is really making me worried that it is somehow connected to his contract talks.
I've never commented about a TV show before but I have to agree with all the thoughtful comments about why Seavers does not belong on the team. Each of the others bring specific skills, strengths, and personalities to the "elite" BAU family. The show needs to return to the powerful characters that make it so great- more time for Hotch, and bring back JJ and Prentiss!
New poster here. Oh man oh man. I am defintely siding with the people that support Ashley Seaver now. Just watched the episode, and she was totally fine, she asked question any team member also ask.Wasn't dumb at all this time. I even spottet a little chemistry with Garcia there.
Yeah the hang up scene was a little fun. But not enough to dislike the character.
I am fully confident now, that the people that hate the seaver character, are really nitpicking now.
This episode really proved that. she is very fine and is beginning to click with the team.
That is my two cecnts on this matter. Oh and the episode was very good. The Prentiss arc is a little out there, but the episode was thrilling from start to finish.
in this ep (i know it aired last night), the gun war was my favortie scene!!!!!!! :)
ctis: I questioned the jewelry (ring on gold chain) being flushed and "Lin from Ohio" explained earlier in this thread the Irish significance of the ring's design, using a word close to what you called it.
It would appear that if it came from Doyle, she wants to separate herself from that which makes me curious as to why she has had it all these years.
Scene with Doyle lighting candle was disturbing also, with him addressing whomever as "Love." Hard to believe Prentiss actually ever CHOSE to be with him but maybe she POSED as his gf/lover years ago in order to get him captured?
And I believe she left all the other items in her safe there but did walk away leaving the door open. Maybe so that the team can read what's in the brown envelope that I think was still inside - maybe that will help them catch Doyle if she is captured and cannot help them. But then that brings us to the question, why isn't she sharing her knowledge about him and what's happening with her now with the others anyway? She has to know they are already in danger (after last wk's epi with Doyle listing the whereabouts of each one) and for her to share what she knows can only help certainly not hinder their search for him.
And guys: this epi was quite good, all about Prentiss with great interaction that we all love between her and all the team members (except for Hotch, darn it) and yet you are wasting all this time ranting about Seaver. I hardly noticed her in this epi, she is so insignificant in comparison to Prentiss and the others, kind of like a flea, if you ask me.
Please consider spending your time more productively and praise Paget Brewster for an amazing acting job and the desire that we all have for her to continue on CM. Pls?
MrHotchMan said...
I am fully confident now, that the people that hate the seaver character, are really nitpicking now.
It's not a nitpick if they're all stem from the exact same complaints. Which, they do.
I'd suggest you read the thread to find them. The main three are not that hard to spot.
As to *your* opinion of her fitting in? Again, seems to me like you're in the minority. I certainly didn't see it, and I even mentioned in my initial comment here I thought she didn't annoy as much as usual.
Do we know about what time we should know if Paget is returning to the show or not? She is a fabulous actress and I would love for her to return to CM. Hopefully, if she does, we'll see more of her in the forefront.
@Dierda:
I'm guessing at the very latest May upfronts. That's when Paget would know if one of her pilots got picked up.
Thanks Blue Sunflower! I didn't know that she had chosen one of the pilots that Fox offered her.
We are so so sad that Emily is leaving. I understand how upset she was when they let J.J. go. But I will have lots of tissues for the final episode..
I really don't think I can watch the show after she is gone.
Too many changes that we are unhappy
Although the whole secret spy Prentiss story is is a bit too silly for me and, imo, has been dragging on too long now I did nevertheless enjoy the episode. PB was fabulous. I especially loved the wonderful conversation she had with Reid. I'm extremely pleased that it looks like his headache storyline is going to continue, I do love me some Hurt!Angst!Reid and I loved that it was Prentiss who he confided in. I've always loved their friendship, I adore how protective she is of Reid. She looked so worried about him in their conversation. Plus I loved that we saw Reid's old insecurities bubbling under the surface in that scene. I can't wait to see how Emily's departure affects Reid.
Now I just hope that we might be lucky and PB will come back for S7. If she doesn't that will mean Seaver will be the only female profiler on the team and inevitably that will mean more screentime for Seaver. I'm sorry but I am not entirely sure I'll be able to watch S7 if that happens, not even Reid/MGG will be able keep me watching. Ideally I want S7 to be Reid, Hotch, Rossi, Morgan, Prentiss, Garcia and JJ but I'm not going to hold my breath for that one. CBS, please, swallow some humble pie, beg Paget and A.J to come back and give me back my show, please.
I loved most of the episode . It was suspenseful, had great Prentiss/Team moments, interesting twists and turns. I loved all the Prentiss/Morgan moments. I always loved Prentiss and Morgan working together. They make a great team. They always have each others back and they know when something is not right with the other. I wish she had confided in him though. The Prentiss scenes with Rossi,Garcia and Reid were nice too. Garcia was doing JJ`s job meeting with the reporter. At first I thought it was a little odd and it slowed down the ep, but I realised it would have been the same if JJ had met with him. She just would have approached him differently. The whole cast did a great job in the ep.
While the ep was great, I don`t like that Prentiss didn`t tell the team about her connection to Doyle. No matter that she is not allowed to talk about it or that she is trying to protect the team by not telling them. She should have told them. They are her team, they are the BAU, the elite unit of the FBI. Everybody is looking for Doyle since weeks, not only in the US but everywhere and she and her Interpol team know that Doyle is in DC . With not telling them they are slowing down the investigation. If they had told them from the beginning the lives of the two families might have been saved.
I know that the writers want the Prentiss/Doyle confrontation and that is why she doesn`t tell the team, but that is one of the reasons why I don`t like the Prentiss-Interpol-undercover-IRA story line story arc overall. The story line is also too far-fetched and has many plot holes. For instance Prentiss had been with the FBI 10 years before she joined the BAU and she is in the team now for 4 years. How can she have been with Interpol 7 years ago. Also how did Doyle escape from a Korean prison only shortly and still managed to have his killer team in the ready. How does he know about every BAU team members whereabouts. I hope the writers know what they do and don`t leave too many loose ends.
Valhalla is still a great episode.
"makes me wonder if she was so deep under that she was married and had a child with him?"
I think the child angle is very possible. The child may have been an unplanned product of the assignment, or she may have cared for Ian. Perhaps the child was given up for adoption, and that's who she is protecting. (If Ian is going to take the only thing that matters to her -- he said your life but could also mean the child.) There have been hints of Emily thinking about children -- when she was going to adopt that young girl and bring her to DC and JJ's comment to Emily that she could see her with kids, which had EP lost in thought. It's possible. Can't wait to see the resolution.
And there must be a big scene with Hotch coming. Too much left unsaid to exclude it!
I really enjoyed this episode. I just wish that Emily had opened up to her team instead of feeling the need to just leave. I so hope that Paget doesn't leave the show. I'm still ticked off about JJ!
Mama Bee, your profile picture is adorable! I had to say that :)
I am certain that she has a lot of fans, but the majority of CM fans have largely spoken across the board and while she may be a lovely individual, for this show, the character she plays is not a good fit.
Really? Can you please direct me to the place where the majority of the 14 million CM fans have spoken across the board?
If CBS and CM are wise, they will listen, for once to what the fans are trying to tell them. The didn't listen with respect to the writers, and look where that has led.
Where has it led?
They didn't listen about JJ, look where that has led.
Where has it led?
They listened about Paget too late, and look where that has led.
Where has it led?
They must start listening to us now, they simply must. Their track record when don't listen to us is not good.
What track record? What terrible thing has transpired because nobody is listening to the fans?
I don't know for sure, but I suspect that the networks do listen to the fans, but not JUST the handful who complain on an internet forum. I suspect they use a much more effective and scientific method to take the pulse of the 14 million viewers, and I suspect that if they're getting as much negative feedback as what is transpiring in here, there will be a bullet with Seaver's name on it in the Season 6 finale.
I don't know for sure, but I suspect that the networks do listen to the fans, but not JUST the handful who complain on an internet forum. I suspect they use a much more effective and scientific method to take the pulse of the 14 million viewers, and I suspect that if they're getting as much negative feedback as what is transpiring in here, there will be a bullet with Seaver's name on it in the Season 6 finale.
My thoughts exactly!
sf81837, okay, if not from the Internet, where do they get viewer feedback from? And how do you quantify that is only a handful of people? Did you do a count of all of the people on this site, on the various forums, fansites, etc.? networks do use Internet sites to assess what is going on with their shows, they would be fools not to because teh Internet provides a rich base of information without the cost of running a focus groups. Plus, focus groups in and of themselves are a controlled experiment with a far less number of people than what is represented on the Internet. There is a method behind choosing what people are used in focus groups, but again, that is a controlled group and there are used to assess speciifc things.
Focus groups are typically used when a show is in pilot stage, or the first to maybe second season, to find out what chracters are working, which are not, etc. These are pilots that are generally at risk for being pulled, not successful shows. Sometimes, sometimes, they are used with long running series that have taken a hit in the ratings and they are used as a way to assess why viewer interest has waned, and how it can possibly be re-sparked. CM was not suffering from any of these things. So, please, can you provide what scientific groups were used that led to the decision to drop AJ and reduce Paget's appearances because from what was reported this all had to do with aligining the show with the spin-off, if you have information to the contrary, please do share that with us here.
Also, to that point, the characters that other people mentioned from CSI Miami and Lost that were eventually axed were an outgrowth of fan displeasure with those characters. No focus groups were run there. Again, if you have information to the contrary, please do share.
Moreover, more and more, networks, businesses, PR firms, etc. are using the Internet to assess what people like, don't like, etc. Social networking has vastly increased and improved the way networks and businesses can monitor what is happening with their consumers. All teh networks, plus virtually every major business has a presence on the Internet and this is not solely to promote themselves, they emply people specifically to monitor those sites and they do use that information. If you will, the Internet has becoem the focus group.
Yes, sf81837, I too would also like to know how you are quantifying what a handful of people are? Do you have a specific number? Are you aware that scientific groups are just that, a handful of people? The Internet is a powerful tool for networks, not to mention cheap, and they are using them. This is whay they have such a presence on the net, not just for promotion, but for information gathering. They do hire people just for that purpose.
Valhalla was great and Seaver is staring to feel a little at home. By the way there is also love for seaver as you have seen. and on youtube
wow this hating is really getting tiresome. You hating on a secondary character like she is the lead. Pathetic
I am looking forward for her to become a family memeber of the team
ctis and gubegirl,
I am not sure if the gold ring was a claddagh ring exaclty. usually they have a crown over the holding hands and aheart between them somewhere, neither of which I saw. It could of course be a variation on the ring.
Was part of Emily's cover to be married to the guy? In the promo for Lauren, ( I grit my teeth over having to wait two weeks!) Ian looked like he was torturing her? Please tell me she wasnt tied up! I couldnt tell.
I also noticed that some people seem to know spoilers about episodes to come that arent posted on this site? Just out of curioustiy, where are they found? ALthough I may not want to spoil myself.
Also, exactly what is JJ's position at the Pentagon? Someone else wrote about it but I am curious about the same thing, if JJ will have a hand in covering up Emily's death perhaps?
I always that that JJ and Emily had great chemsitry, platonic I mean, not romantic obviously.
I really cant wait to see Lauren and I dont think we will find out about Paget's final fate with CM until after the season is over.
I encourage EVERYONE TO RAVE ABOUT NEXT WEEK'S EPISODE ABOUT HOW MUCH EMILY AND JJ ARE NEEDED BECUASE WE WANT THEM BACK! Most of us! ANd to fill out the cbs feedback form for the next episode too.
New tactic idea: maybe if we just bombard cbs and every other forum and tv review with how great and vital JJ and Emily are, they will both be asked to come back? Hopefully. Hardcore raving for Emily and JJ please! Just an idea!
@optika
they asked Paget. She didn't wan't to come back. So you can't accomplice anything, if the actress doesn't want to come back herself
Laura,
I think that paget does want to come back but she hated being screwed over so unfairly and is very hurt. But she has been quoted saying that she loves being on Criminal minds before this whole mess happened. Understandably there are mixed feelings. And I would not blame her if she decided not to come back but the option is still there.
The other thing is that I dont think she would come back without AJ though. i read somewhere they are best friends and that is also understandable. Hopefully Aj will be asked to some back too.
No garantees but maybe is all I am saying.
You know what, this hating on a character bit is so played out and ridiculous, it offers no reasoning, no logic, no nothing. So I say, keep on saying it because it shows there is no bite behind that hating bark.
Optika, I think that is a great idea!!! Ultimately, it is up to Paget if she'd like to return, but giving her some praise is always in order :)
I am one that hope the WHOLE team will be back in season 7
Moore
Gubler
Mantegna
Nichols
Cook
Brewster
Gibson
Vangness
love them all lets end all this hate and bickering if we can get them all back lets cut Nichols some slack. She is pretty cool
I just want to ssuggest that maybe we stop using the word "hate".
It may offend people more, such as myself who dont like Seaver, and lead to arguments.
Lets just try to stick to praising the hell out of paget/Emily and AJ/JJ when they come back next week. And remember to do it on the cbs feedback form. Hopefully it will do some good.
That is great that she is cool, no doubt she is, but the character is an epic fail, and that is what is at play here, not an individual actress. But you are entitled to that viewpoint, as I am to mine. But the cutting slack issue, Blue Sunflower covered that pretty well. No matter how much "slack," "time" or whatever other term you may want to use is going to repair the total zero that is that character. Unfortunately, she got saddled with a total dud of a character that is just a fail for this show. Sdwally covered that aspect in her comment as well. Sdwally, thanks for those insights.
Yes, using such inflammatory language is not good, and FYI makes your argument look really bad because if you have to reduce it to calling people haters then it makes you and the person/character you are trying to advocate for look bad, really bad.
I loved the episode. It was exciting, touching, sad, funny, suspenseful and sweet.
What I liked:
-Most of all I loved Pagets performance! I love what she can do with her face. It's all there. All the emotion. No words needed.
- I loved how Hotch was giving the profile and how in control of the room full of people he was.
- I loved how cute and sweet Reid looked. So adorkable.
- I liked that the headache storyline was back and addressed again
- I liked that Rossi noticed Prenitss behavior. I was disappointed that in the last eps it seemed like everyone but the two senior profiler of the team had'n noticed Prentiss different behavior
- I liked the guest stars. Great casting of Siena Goines, Sebastian Roché and Timothy V. Murphy.
- I liked the music. The composers did a good job.
- I loved the Emily and Garcia talk in the bathroom. Very sweet, but sad at the same time.
- I liked the subway scene, how you got a good feel of what Emily was feeling. Good directing here.
-Loved that Garcia spoiled the book for the journalist.
What I didn't like
Why on earth is Hotch the only one, who does not get a touching moment with Prentiss? The way she stood by his side after the Foyet attack (picking him up, driving him home and all), I thought the two were close! What happened there? I liked their friendship and I 'm disappointed that Hotch didn't notice her behavior and didn't get a good scene with her like the other characters.
And what I really don't like is that I have to wait two weeks for the “Lauren” now. Grrr.
I can only hope that CBS comes to their senses and sends Seaver packing and begs JJ & Prentiss to return next season.
Maybe use some of that Charlie Sheen money to lure them back.
It's been bad enough without JJ but can't imagine the rest of the season without Prentiss (after her last episode).
Looking forward to seeing JJ again but know this will be a very sad episode.
Optika, I think there are variations of the claudaugh--the typical on is Irish but it think the Scots and maybe even Brits have their own versions. I totally agree that the whole married with child storyline is a little out there, I was just wondering if anyone else saw what I did.
While I think it would have been more interesting to watch if Emily had told the team, I think I get why she didn't. In the briefing with the security firm Morgan said they know these crimes are personal because the team didn't spare the child.
I think Emily knows that if her team persues Doyle to protect her that he'll "make it personal" with them, meaning that they aren't just risking their own lives, but the people they care about too--especially Jack and Henry.
And I completely agree that we are owed some great Hotch scenes. While I a "shipper" thats not even what I'm looking for. They have a good friendship and Hotch isn't the cold boss who only cares about his team's professional lives.
As much as I adore her friendship with Reid and Morgan, lately (since end of S4) I have thought she was even closer with Hotch and Dave, and I don't think that was seen enough in this ep. Here's to hoping!
Lets show some more love for Emily Prentiss!
Okay everyone describe her in 5 words:
Emily Prentiss is badass, talented, feisty, geek-chic (technically two but whatever) and gorgeous!
I heart Prentiss! Best female profiler.
EMily and JJ are my two favoirtie fbi female characters and AJ Cook and Paget Brewster are my two favoirte actresses!
Emily rocks!
sdwally,
Thank you for posting the feedback link. I did go there and make a comment. I hope it helps. This is what I said:
I am a fan of Criminal Minds and have been since its debut. I loved the profiling aspect of the story as well as glimpses into the lives of the profilers and the toll the job takes on them. Lola Guadini left in the second season and I hardly blinked. Paget Brewster was far superior in every way. In the third season the show lost Mandy Patinkin. That was scary to some who worried about the show’s survival. They needn’t have. The great writing and the addition of Joe Mantegna to the, already stellar, cast made the transition less painful. However, suddenly many of the terrific writers were let go and we have been left with writers that don’t seem to know the subject matter of the show or the characters. In one episode Garcia says she’s an only child. What happened to the four brothers she had in P911? The inconsistency of the writing was starting to take its toll. Then the wisdom decided that the show no longer needed its two strongest female stars. AJ Cook was let go and Paget Brewster’s time was cut down. This is an affront to women everywhere. In season six the show has seemed to flounder. AJ Cook was more important to the equation than anyone thought. All the characters seem out of balance without her. And now we face losing Paget Brewster. I understand the show has offered her a contract for season 7, but considering the way she’s been treated, I don’t blame her if she doesn’t accept. It may be a case of too little too late. The show, and the viewers who love it, will be the big losers. Then we come to the character of Ashley Seaver. We are expected to swallow that a cadet, plucked off the obstacle course, could come into the BAU, a specialized unit, I think Hotch told Prentiss in The Last Word, where not just anybody could give it a whirl. We are expected to believe in this grossly ill-conceived character. The writers don’t even appear to know what to do with her for God’s sake! That is because she doesn’t belong. It’s like fitting a square peg in a round hole. She adds absolutely nothing to the show but a pretty face. That’s setting women’s issues back decades isn’t it?
But, this wonderful show that I, and so many others love, can be saved. Make Ms. Brewster and offer she can’t refuse. Beg Ms. Cook on bended knee to come back. If Ed Bernero leaves, get a show runner who knows the characters and the subject matter and writers who are committed to a quality product without holes as big as the Grand Canyon. I am on the Criminal Minds forums every day, because I love this show, and I hate to see something I love being so badly treated. You can change this and you have to before faithful viewers, who once planned their evening around this show, start turning away. Then it will be too late. Then this very talented ensemble of actors, Thomas Gibson, Joe Mantegna, Paget Brewster, Shemar Moore, Matthew Grey Gubler, AJ Cook and Kirsten Vangness, who we have invited into our home every week while they invited us into the lives of the characters they portray so brilliantly, will be lost to us. Don’t let this happen! Don’t try to fix what was never broken to begin with!
Emily Prentiss is intelligent, badass, witty, compassionate, and clever!
Love her!
I am one that hope the WHOLE team will be back in season 7
Moore
Gubler
Mantegna
Nichols
Cook
Brewster
Gibson
Vangness
That's too many. You've already got people constantly complaining that "so-and-so" didn't get enough lines, or disappeared, or has gotten pushed into the background. Giving that many people something to do every episode would result in a bunch of them standing around saying something stupid and not the least bit necessary to solving the crime.
Pat that was maginificently said!
Prentiss is courageous, smart, badass, funny, clever.
May I add, loved, very much loved!
I hope Paget returns! And AJ too :)
Great job, Pat; now explain to me how I can reiterate all that you said to CBS by cutting and pasting in the right place, because you covered it all, GF, and I can't think of one thing to add. Yours could just be a petition we all sign!
Re-watched the epi last nite and could not help but tear up as Emily kept scanning the room toward the end...you could just feel all that she was feeling for each member of the team and she showed just the right amount of emotion. I thought the tortured expression of her face was perfect. She was brilliant and I do not want to see her go. Please, Paget, STAY! We need you! The team needs you! and if you can get AJ to come back in your negotiations, I say, go for it - we miss her and love her too! Power to the ladies! (the ones with experience!)
Emily is funny, charming, kickass, strong and realteable and empathetic.
JJ was maternal, nurturing, supportive, accepting and badass.
Lets add JJ to the mix!
Opika, yes, let's add JJ too!
JJ is tough, tender, compassionate, smart, supportive.
Love you AJ!!!
Describe Emily and JJ in five words each please. We gotta show them some love. Otherwise, by the end of Lauren, we will all be more guilt ridden then we should be.
GO EMILY AND JJ!
This is going down the thread for now.
Emily is badass, creative, poised, sisterly and smart!ANd funny!
JJ is strong, elegant, sophisticated, kickass and loved!
This is for all of you asking what Seaver's character adds to the show.
First I will tell you what JJ added to the show, which was exposition. Since JJ was not a profiler, she was the one who would know the actual case file really well and fill in the factual gaps while the profilers were theorizing.
This is exactly what Seaver does. It is an important role for the movement of the show, but one that largely goes unnoticed by viewers who are unfamiliar with how writers structure shows like these.
Also, the fact that she is a rookie gives her the chance to legitimately ask questions, sometimes even dumb ones, which allows the senior characters an excuse to spell it out for the audience without the exposition just coming out of nowhere.
Furthermore, Seaver came into the show right at the end of JJ's arc, and right at the beginning of the end of Prentiss' arc. This is a rough spot to be in. She was filling the vacuum of JJ that had a lot of bad blood regarding the manner in which AJ departed. The diehard fans were not predisposed to like her, as was the case with Prentiss and Rossi. Since Seaver was first introduced, the writers have been distracted with Prentiss' story, and have left Seaver with almost no development after her first episode.
What I see in Seaver is a hard worker, naturally talented, a little naive but at the same time with more life experience than most, and eager to please but thrown into a dynamic and quickly changing environment in which she is trying to tread lightly. She is perhaps a little bemused by Reid, but has come under the wing of protection of Rossi.
So there you have it. If you disagree, fine, but please stop saying that the Seaver supporters have not articulated how the character has contributed to the show.
Agreed with here it is.
Seaver will become a great character these people that don't like her will just wait and see.
Here it is,
Totally disagree with EVERYTHING! JJ WAS NOT EXPOSTION! She was the media liason and communications director for the unit. JJ talked to families, took care of all the media inquiries and handled a lot more than she was given credit for. She was the go between, the coneection for the team to the outside world and she also chose the cases the team went on, knowing full well that there were always consequences of not taking other cases and having to know about the end reults about the cases that the team could not take. Yes, she started out as a background character, but her function was always clear and she fleshed into the den mother of the show and humanized a lot of the shows aspects in ways that are intangible and too hard to describe in words sometimes. JJ's absence is sorely felt and the show is simply not the same without her.
"Since JJ was not a profiler, she was the one who would know the actual case file really well and fill in the factual gaps while the profilers were theorizing.
This is exactly what Seaver does. It is an important role for the movement of the show, but one that largely goes unnoticed by viewers who are unfamiliar with how writers structure shows like these."
Yes JJ helps fill in a lot of gaps but Seaver does not. you did not explain how Seaver "fills the gaps" because she doesnt. When Seaver does try to explain something, she tends to be off the mark. First off, in Today I do, everyone with eating disorders has varied but sometimes similar eating patterns. " Carrots and hot sauce" is not the only thing and should not have been assumed. Then she said that cutting is about no control! I will explain it myself, cutting is about release and regaining control in a self destructive way. One would cut themselves to block out the emotional pain by controlling phyical pain. Seaver was blatantly wrong about this especially.
Yes, Seaver is a cadet/rookie whatever and she is allowed to ask questions, even dumb ones but the BAU is not a training gorund and until she came on the show, there were some strict and elite standards for entrance into the BAU as per both the rela life BAU and the fictional BAU. Remember s2- The Last Word when Prentiss joined the team? Remember Jordan Todd? The BAU is not for experiment and not for the faint of heart and you must prove you have what it takes in order to actually be let into the BAU and Seaver has none of these. She has no unique insight. She is a Mary SUe character who should be graduating to a desk job. As a one off, Seaver was tolerable, but not as a regular!
Also, JJ did not get an arc. She got a hastily explained, but still plausible enough exit story which still leaves many unanswered questions about her past that could have lead to some great stories as well. And Seaver did not come into the beginning of Prentiss's arc. She came into the beginning of her own, very poorly written arc, with no satisfactory explanations as to why she was allowed to stay.
Seaver may be a hard worker, but she has shown no talent and nothing that says she has more life experience than most people. If she did, her character would not be so naive and stupid.
continued...
continued...
Also, Reid is not a "bemusing" character. Reid is a gifted, cerbral human being who has a lot more to offer to the BAU than Seaver does.
"Furthermore, Seaver came into the show right at the end of JJ's arc, and right at the beginning of the end of Prentiss' arc. This is a rough spot to be in. She was filling the vacuum of JJ that had a lot of bad blood regarding the manner in which AJ departed. The diehard fans were not predisposed to like her, as was the case with Prentiss and Rossi. Since Seaver was first introduced, the writers have been distracted with Prentiss' story, and have left Seaver with almost no development after her first episode."
Seaver cannot fill the void left by JJ's departure becuase she does not have the training to be a media liason either, which is a real and elite job in itself which was mentioned in season1 dvd special features somewhere.
Seaver is a different character than JJ and Emily but despite being a foolish character, there is no bad blood becuase of Emily and JJ's departures.
Also, Emily may be leaving forever, so yeah the writers are going to pay some attention to giving her the farewell and the story she deserves!
As for Seaver's character development, there were still things that writers could have shown but obviously, they dont know what to do with her either.
That said...thank you for explaining your side.
Here it is, thank you for that. Based on what you offered, i ahev some questions.
To your first point that Seaver adds to the movement of the show because the character fleshes out things that viewers who are unfamiliar to the show may not know. But, weren't we all unfamiliar to the show at one point? The way the show was written was all the explanation needed. I didn't know what an unsub was, but by watching the skilled profilers, I learned. I didn't know what victimology was, but again, by watching the show and seeing how the skilled profilers went to work, I learned. I didn't need for them to break down every point for me, the writing did that itself. So, why after 5 and 1/2 years does the show have to start doing what it has never really done before. Sure, theer are instances when the show breaks down facts to police officers who may ask, but that is done by one of the profilers and it is something that is done quickly and surely doesn't require the addition of a character to do. Also, that doesn't address how a cadet with no qualifications or exceptional abilities like Reid can get an exemption to be on the team.
2. How does Seaver asking dumb questions, as you said, and having to take time from the tempo and movement of the show to have one of the profilers explain these things to her moving the show forward? Again, they have never had to do this and they have been quite successful. People seem smart and adept enough to pick up what is going on without the need to have things broken down to them.
3. Peopke were predisposed to hating this character because of JJ. While you can perhaps say that for some, this is an overgeneralization and really shouldn't be used as an argument as there is no way for you to prove that point on a whole. I hated what happened to AJ, but I was willing to give the new character a shot until I saw that it was a woefully ill-conceived one for the show. It had nothing whatsoever to do with the JJ character.
4. Seaver is hard working- can you provide specific scene examples.
5. Naturally talented- in what way? Can you provide examples.
6. More life experience than others- how? Can you provide examples? By what the show said, she had an ideal chldhood in what appears to be a suburb, she had no clue that her dad was a serial killer until he was caught.
Lastly, how does Seaver being on the show not trample on what the show itself claims to be about:
"CRIMINAL MINDS revolves around an elite team of FBI profilers who analyze the country's most twisted criminal minds, anticipating their next moves before they strike again.. Each member brings his or her own area of expertise to the table as they pinpoint predators' motivations and identify their emotional triggers in the attempt to stop them."
Sorry for the typos :(
Seaver is a "Winning" comnbination for the team. In the words of Charlie Sheen.
Prentiss is intelligent, sassy, badass, compassionate, and witty.
JJ is compassionate, intelligent strong, nuturing, kickass.
They are both loved!!!
Paget, please don't leave!
CBS and CM, please get AJ back!
I'll respond to Cindy's post because it's easier to answer the numbered questions...
1. I'm not referring to general concepts like "unsub" or victimology that are just sort of a part of the show, but rather things referring to the specific episode that need to be explained. For example, when Seaver asked if the autistic kid could be the unsub. People thought that was a dumb thing to say but honestly, that was one of my first reactions and I'm glad she asked the question so the others could explain why that wasn't so. These things have been explained in other ways in the past, but some of those ways involved JJ. They are currently explained in other ways besides using Seaver, but Seaver also helps fill in some of the gaps left by JJ.
2. I don't think these answers break the momentum of the show. Exposition by its nature tends to be clunky, but it's also necessary. See answer to #1.
3. I know you might not remember this, but a number of people on the forums before Seaver's first episode were saying that she could never replace JJ and they would boycot the character no matter what. For those who didn't come out and say that, I think the sentiment still applied, but you're right, there's no specific "proof."
4. Hard working- the fact that she basically memorizes all of the details of the case they're working on. Also the ending montage of one of the past episodes where Rossi sees that she's the only one still working at her desk, and because of that he gets her to play video games with him.
5. Naturally talented- Best in her FBI class, no one else figures out the obstacle course, etc. Plus, she has insight into the families of the killers. This insight comes from her personal experiences, but once it's honed by classes and field work it will make her a good profiler.
6. More life experience- I was referring to the serial killer father. The fallout of having her father get caught is plenty, even if she didn't "know" before then. Plus, like the puppy story, I'm sure she experienced a lot of effects of having a psychopath father, even if she didn't know he was a killer.
7. Everyone gets caught up in the "elite team of FBI profilers" language without realizing that there are and have always been members of the team who are not elite profilers. JJ was a media liason, and Garcia is a computer tech. They add things other than profiling. See #5 for what Seaver will bring to the table, once she has a chance to grow a little bit.
Seaver is a "Winning" comnbination for the team. In the words of Charlie Sheen.
LOL!!! These days this blog reminds me of the Jerry Springer show. It's so bad and so ridiculous and you know you shouldn't watch, much less participate, but you just can't help it.
Anonymous wrote..
….Besides, there are plenty of other things in the world to get in a tizzy about! And it is just a TV show. It's not the end of the world as we know it!....
You’re right…but - and I do respect your input and thoughts – it is more than that. Try being away from home for a year, far away trying not to have you’re a** shot at and the only thing that keeps you sane and a part of “home” is having a group of people share in something common like CM – sitting in the desert and talking about Prentiss or Reid is quite refreshing! -and if one is lucky enough to get in front of a computer, read blogs like this and watch snipets of your favorite show; it takes your mind away from troubles. Yes, the world is on fire and life goes on after 42 minutes of TV, but talking about episodes, story ideas, characters we love, has a way of making the day a little better when it’s not going well. As fans we sometimes feel like we have a say and a stake in what happens – without us a show will never get off the ground. Fans generate a ton of money for shows like CM, by ratings and merchandise, so I think we all have a right to be passionate and take a stand to have the show we enjoy be successful for a long time, with the characters we know and love. I imagine if the executive producers of CM (and Nina Tassler) put the people on this blog in one big room and listened, they would hear more passion and ideas(more good than bad) then any President of CBS would ever have!
As far as the episode goes. I though PB’s performance was excellent, as were all the scenes with the “family.” I am hoping too that Hotch has a presence in “Lauren” and that they have a moment together, but I think that may not happen person to person, who knows. I think “Lauren” is going to be violent and have an OMG moment toward the end. I can’t even imagine what the season finale will hold….what do you possibly come up with to end Season 6? I’m hoping the TPTB give the fans a whammy, were we are all caught of guard and Season 7 will begin with the return of PB and (maybe AJ)…I was going to stop watching after “Lauren” but will be curious to see how the team reacts to Emily’s departure/Tv-Land coma (or whatever they are going to do) and if the remaining episodes will make any reference to her, or just go through life as business as usual.
con't...
Con't...
I’m also curious to see the flux in ratings during “Lauren” and after. It’s going to be very odd seeing just the men deal with profiling and maybe this gives more time for storylines with them. I have a hard time seeing “Garcia” doing the briefs at the roundtable and am trying to adapt to the subtle character changes. As far as Seaver goes, well, I think there would have been room for AS if they had done what they originally planned, have her only in three episodes than maybe bring her forward after the Academy – for little bits here and there. But throwing the whole ‘Silence of the Lambs’ character in full-time was manipulative and foolish. Give people time (especially respect the long term fans of this show) to absorb JJ’s departure and Emily’s demise. Make reference to AS periodically and maybe bring forth a story that encompases her after FBI Academy training where Hotch can aprove a brief stint with the BAU for training…even in TV land- (where it’s okay to stretch a bit for action sake)- I can deal with a newbe being present. But jeez, what agnecy lets a cadet leave active academy training and go to an elite unit before being assigned to a field training office and gaining experience. Not the FBI! It’s like being in a police academy and going straight to SWAT and joining that team- learning as you go. It was too fast for AS to be presented to us like it was and the backlash of the decision is evident. I am not looking forward to the opening credits and seeing the photo of PB gone! March 16 is going to be sad. Whatever PB does – I will miss her and wish her all the best.
Good lord, sorry for the long post. Oh, where is Sergio? Maybe at the end Hotch will walk in with the cat and give him to Jack and say that they need to take care of him for a very special, good friend until she comes back. I think Jack would like a pet.
obarrLOL, I wouldn't take it to Jerry Springer land, but yeah, quoting Charlie Sheen, yikes!!!!
I hope that quote was meant in a sarcastic way because if that was meant as an argument for the Seaver character that is just sad.
I'll respond to Cindy's post because it's easier to answer the numbered questions...
1. I'm not referring to general concepts like "unsub" or victimology that are just sort of a part of the show, but rather things referring to the specific episode that need to be explained. For example, when Seaver asked if the autistic kid could be the unsub. People thought that was a dumb thing to say but honestly, that was one of my first reactions and I'm glad she asked the question so the others could explain why that wasn't so. These things have been explained in other ways in the past, but some of those ways involved JJ. They are currently explained in other ways besides using Seaver, but Seaver also helps fill in some of the gaps left by JJ.
2. I don't think these answers break the momentum of the show. Exposition by its nature tends to be clunky, but it's also necessary. See answer to #1.
3. I know you might not remember this, but a number of people on the forums before Seaver's first episode were saying that she could never replace JJ and they would boycot the character no matter what. For those who didn't come out and say that, I think the sentiment still applied, but you're right, there's no specific "proof."
4. Hard working- the fact that she basically memorizes all of the details of the case they're working on. Also the ending montage of one of the past episodes where Rossi sees that she's the only one still working at her desk, and because of that he gets her to play video games with him.
5. Naturally talented- Best in her FBI class, no one else figures out the obstacle course, etc. Plus, she has insight into the families of the killers. This insight comes from her personal experiences, but once it's honed by classes and field work it will make her a good profiler.
6. More life experience- I was referring to the serial killer father. The fallout of having her father get caught is plenty, even if she didn't "know" before then. Plus, like the puppy story, I'm sure she experienced a lot of effects of having a psychopath father, even if she didn't know he was a killer.
7. Everyone gets caught up in the "elite team of FBI profilers" language without realizing that there are and have always been members of the team who are not elite profilers. JJ was a media liason, and Garcia is a computer tech. They add things other than profiling. See #5 for what Seaver will bring to the table, once she has a chance to grow a little bit.
Here it is said,
You make some very excellent points. I have no opinion of the Seaver character. Keep her or don't, I don't care at this point, but don't really get the complaint that Seaver isn't qualified to be on the team. Is it really that big of deal?
The door leading into the BAU has the word "Training" painted on it. The real BAU allows for internships. Three years ago Hotch wasn't interested in allowing just any seasoned agent who wanted to give it whirl a shot, but whose to say that three years later they aren't okay with the idea of actually training and grooming a cadet to become one of them. Things change so why not just sit back and see how it plays out. If it falls flat it does, but so far, I don't even really notice her.
I will miss Paget to, but it seems like she is the one, that wanted to leave in the end.
AJ i really miss more because she wants to return but got fired.
But i also like seaver. she will be a great addition in the future, when she has been more intergrated into to the team.
I'll respond to Cindy's post because it's easier to answer the numbered questions...
1. I'm not referring to general concepts like "unsub" or victimology that are just sort of a part of the show, but rather things referring to the specific episode that need to be explained. For example, when Seaver asked if the autistic kid could be the unsub. People thought that was a dumb thing to say but honestly, that was one of my first reactions and I'm glad she asked the question so the others could explain why that wasn't so. These things have been explained in other ways in the past, but some of those ways involved JJ. They are currently explained in other ways besides using Seaver, but Seaver also helps fill in some of the gaps left by JJ.
2. I don't think these answers break the momentum of the show. Exposition by its nature tends to be clunky, but it's also necessary. See answer to #1.
3. I know you might not remember this, but a number of people on the forums before Seaver's first episode were saying that she could never replace JJ and they would boycot the character no matter what. For those who didn't come out and say that, I think the sentiment still applied, but you're right, there's no specific "proof."
4. Hard working- the fact that she basically memorizes all of the details of the case they're working on. Also the ending montage of one of the past episodes where Rossi sees that she's the only one still working at her desk, and because of that he gets her to play video games with him.
5. Naturally talented- Best in her FBI class, no one else figures out the obstacle course, etc. Plus, she has insight into the families of the killers. This insight comes from her personal experiences, but once it's honed by classes and field work it will make her a good profiler.
6. More life experience- I was referring to the serial killer father. The fallout of having her father get caught is plenty, even if she didn't "know" before then. Plus, like the puppy story, I'm sure she experienced a lot of effects of having a psychopath father, even if she didn't know he was a killer.
7. Everyone gets caught up in the "elite team of FBI profilers" language without realizing that there are and have always been members of the team who are not elite profilers. JJ was a media liason, and Garcia is a computer tech. They add things other than profiling. See #5 for what Seaver will bring to the table, once she has a chance to grow a little bit.
For some reason, when I post my response to Cindy's questions, my post disappears after a few minutes. Here it is again:
I'll respond to Cindy's post because it's easier to answer the numbered questions...
1. I'm not referring to general concepts like "unsub" or victimology that are just sort of a part of the show, but rather things referring to the specific episode that need to be explained. For example, when Seaver asked if the autistic kid could be the unsub. People thought that was a dumb thing to say but honestly, that was one of my first reactions and I'm glad she asked the question so the others could explain why that wasn't so. These things have been explained in other ways in the past, but some of those ways involved JJ. They are currently explained in other ways besides using Seaver, but Seaver also helps fill in some of the gaps left by JJ.
2. I don't think these answers break the momentum of the show. Exposition by its nature tends to be clunky, but it's also necessary. See answer to #1.
3. I know you might not remember this, but a number of people on the forums before Seaver's first episode were saying that she could never replace JJ and they would boycot the character no matter what. For those who didn't come out and say that, I think the sentiment still applied, but you're right, there's no specific "proof."
4. Hard working- the fact that she basically memorizes all of the details of the case they're working on. Also the ending montage of one of the past episodes where Rossi sees that she's the only one still working at her desk, and because of that he gets her to play video games with him.
5. Naturally talented- Best in her FBI class, no one else figures out the obstacle course, etc. Plus, she has insight into the families of the killers. This insight comes from her personal experiences, but once it's honed by classes and field work it will make her a good profiler.
6. More life experience- I was referring to the serial killer father. The fallout of having her father get caught is plenty, even if she didn't "know" before then. Plus, like the puppy story, I'm sure she experienced a lot of effects of having a psychopath father, even if she didn't know he was a killer.
7. Everyone gets caught up in the "elite team of FBI profilers" language without realizing that there are and have always been members of the team who are not elite profilers. JJ was a media liason, and Garcia is a computer tech. They add things other than profiling. See #5 for what Seaver will bring to the table, once she has a chance to grow a little bit.
I want to say a little bout wonderful Dr. Reid. He is a genius but being a genius will not get you in the FBI. Earlier this season he was asked how long he had been an agent of the FBI. He said something like five years and many months. I believe that he did not become an official agent until his twenty-third birthday even though he was a part of the team for two years before then. He was not brought on as an agent but as a cadet brought in by Gideon because of his intelligence which I believe was discovered by Gideon when he was a guest lecturer and met the young man. Gideon brought the young man but he still had to prove himself to become a full agent and still needed to meet the age requirement before becoming a full agent. I think it was wonderful of this but it does show that this elite unit of the FBI does protege cadets who they see as having great potential in becoming good profilers.
sf81837, she is not there on an internship, she is there, right now, to complete her remedial training based on the fact that she had some injury. Nothing was ever followed up on that, but oh well. Second, Hotch changing his mind like that would be such a far departure from his character, way too far in my opinion. Nothing else in his character as presented to date would even hint that he would have that sort of change in mind. Seaver slipped back in when Hotch was gone and to a point that LaShawna wrote before the fact that the writers didn't create a scene where Hotch would be fine with this is because there is no way that he would be; it just would not be a credible scene. Plus, she has been there for 5 episodes already, when are we going to get an explanation, after the 8th episode. Come on. This should have been something that if it were credible should have been explained from the very beginning. If it were credible, it would have been more than easy to do. It shouldn't require this amount of time.
christy, where do you get that Reid was a cadet. He wasn't a cadet when he joined the BAU. He was already out of the Academy. Plus, Reid was an exemption because he is brilliant; his qualifications have been listed here time and time again. Seaver is not a genius, she is your ordinary, garden variety cadet. Nothing special, just like anyone else at the Academy. There is nothing in her that would warrant her getting any type of exemption, certainly not jumping over people with yeaars of experience who are more qualified for that position. When you see someone like Reid you can see someone saying "Wow, we have got to get that guy exempted to be on the team?" What about Seaver would provoke that kind of response, again, being that she is not a one in a billion genius like Reid, nor does she have any other quality that would explain an exemption.
Clarissa,
I didn't say that she was there on an internship only that the real BAU provides them. I'm sorry, but I don't have a problem believing that Hotch would be willing to change things up once in awhile. His beef with Emily had nothing to do with "agents wanting to give it a whirl" and entirely too much emphasis has been placed on that one line of dialogue. Hotch didn't trust that this agent just showed up out of nowhere after one of his agents was invovled in a questionable shooting and that is why he was rejecting Emily initially.
I have no idea if this will work, but it's not a big deal to me. If it doesn't work they'll get rid of her, but right now she's not affecting my enjoyment of the show. She's barely featured.
I am sorry but you are wrong. Reid was not exempted when he joined the team as an agent. He did not become an agent until he was twenty-three years old and yet was a part of the BAU prior to that. In Tabula Rasa, Hotch brought Reid on the case and introduced him as a new agent. The case was in 2004. In 2005 the show began with Reid as an agent of the team and he turns twenty-four in the fourth episode. In L.D.S.K., Hotch says that he had been 'suffering' with him for three years. This shows that when he first joined the unit, he was not an agent.
Unlike you, I do have a problem with it not just solely because of the Seaver character but because it is symptomatic of how the characters have been written OOC lately, more so than before, something that will undoubtedly increase to integrate this non- credible character into the show.
You have said that you are not invested in the characters and that you watch the show basically for the psycho of the week (please correct me if I am wrong) well I would venture to say that a number of people here are invested in the characters. So things like that Hotch line are a big deal to us and cannot be easily skirted under the table for us because they go to the essence of that character for us.
Christy, he was exempted because he didn't have the requiste number of years or experience to be part of the BAU.
The exemption goes to him being able to join the BAU.
Oooooh, I loved this episode!
Paget Brewster was amazing; the emotions playing on Prentiss's face, especially during the briefing before she walked out... I'm struggling to find words to adequately explain how convincing her acting was. As usual, by the time I get here (thanks to my source!) everyone else has summed it up quite nicely for me. I really hope Paget Brewster stays, but I'd certainly understand and respect it if she chose to leave permanently.
As for the Claddagh ring: It's an Irish thing (not always denoting marriage, it can show just romantic involvement) although the Scots have something similar. You can also get Celtic design wedding rings in Scotland which I think are beautiful (I often buy myself silver Celtic jewellery when I nip across the border). When it comes to wedding rings us English are boring - just a plain band seems to do the trick! Not too sure about the Welsh - my cousins have the plain English style rings, but their Dad is English.
Based on Doyle lighing the candle in church and Prentiss flushing the ring down the toilet I'm wondering if a child was involved in some way. Maybe she gave birth and the baby died (although that wouldn't explain why he's after her) or she got pregnant and had an abortion (if he's been brought up Roman Catholic, despite being a killer, this would definitely not sit well).
I agree about the lack of Hotch this season, although I hope it means they're saving him for a big explosive storyline to cap off the season. What that will be I have no idea, although I speculate (based on what TG said in an interview about Hotch not going through the grieving process properly after Haley's death) whatever happens to Prentiss will bring it bubbling to the surface. However, that would be too similar to what I speculate will happen with...
Reid. I loved the scene between him and Prentiss. He seemed to notice more than the others how tense she's been and the fact that he confided in her about the headaches suggests they have real trust in each other (purely platonic). I thought she wanted to open up to him, but something stopped her and she fobbed him off that she was fine.
I think this means when whatever happens with Prentiss actually happens Reid is going to feel incredibly guilty that he didn't do anything to help her (although what he could have actually done??) or tell Hotch. I've said before that I reckon a combination of losing a good friend & colleague, as well as the stresses of the job & his life in general (his mother's illness, lack of social life, lack of ladyfriend, etc) will all culminate in him having some sort of breakdown.
I think his physical symptoms are definitely stress related. We've had government inspectors in at my workplace this week so I've had to do some twelve hour days (it's usually 8-9) and everything has had to be "perfect". I was sat in the canteen with some colleagues on Wednesday and we were all complaining we each had a headache. Not a wanting to tear your head off headache, but like a narrow band of pressure which lingered all day despite copious quantities of paracetamol and tea! Inspectors gone + Good result = No headache.
Yeah, I've said enough now. The two week wait for "Lauren" is going to kill me though...
I agree he was given an exemption to join the unit, but he did originally join as an agent is all that I am saying. He still needed training and mentoring by Gideon, who brought him into the agency. He did not become a full agent until he turned twenty-three. There was not an expemtion is this case of becoming a full agent. Like many geniouses, the top agencies and companies go out of their way to recruit them. This is how Reid was recruited into the unit.
Seaver is different in that she was recruited out of high school or college to join the unit. But I am sure that the units keep track of the trainees in the academy who excel in the classes and then choose to mentor or protege those that they feel may become a good addition to the unit. Not all trainees will get this because most are unremarkable and average and will become regular agents in the field offices. It is possible that because of her 'background' Rossi saw something in Seaver to impress him enough to want to bring her into the unit. We haven't been given a lot of information yet about her.
Just as when we first learn of each of our agents, we learn of their qualities a little at a time.
Reid is remarkable and was recruited because of that.
A few typos. I forgot a few nots in the above comment. Seaver was not recruited and Reid did not join as a full agent.
What that her father was a serial killer? That didn't pan out to well, did it. Look, she could be eager and wanting to learn, that is great, but what the Reid character extraordinary qualities one has to have to be considered as an exemption to get on the team. Something that was demonstrated from his very first epiosde. What extraordinary features does Seaver have? If she has them, they are covering them up really well. And to another commenters point, why should it take more than 1 or 2 episodes to delve into whatever this extraordinary feature is? Sorry, but that is just nonsenscial. If she had it, it would have been something unmistakable and undeniable.
I still think Reid was arookie agent when he joined the team, LDSK showed that he hadn't passed the gun test to be able to carry a gun, but he eventually did, not that he was in the Academy. He said that they made a lot of exemptions for him to become an agent, again, because of his brilliance.
If I am wrong about the cadet thing, sorry, but I do really think he was a rookie agent when he started at the BAU.
You have said that you are not invested in the characters and that you watch the show basically for the psycho of the week (please correct me if I am wrong) well I would venture to say that a number of people here are invested in the characters. So things like that Hotch line are a big deal to us and cannot be easily skirted under the table for us because they go to the essence of that character for us.
No, I never said I wasn't invested in the characters just that a large portion of the 14 million viewers probably aren't all that invested in them. Hotch is my favorite character and I remember the line well. My point is that when Hotch said it and within the context of the scene and the situation, it probably had nothing to do with how he really felt about who he did or didn't let onto his team, it was an excuse he was tossing out because he didn't trust why the woman standing in front of him was there. I don't think it was meant to be cemented as Hotch's rules for admission into his world or to become some unbreakable rule. The statement was critical to the situation at hand, not to the entire future of the any potential BAU hires, but that's just my my interpretation of the scene.
I meant to say, that what the Reid character showed was just how extraoridnary one has to be to be exempted onto the team, but also, how extraoridnary the team is. Not so much with Seaver there.
A lot of typos here too.
sf81387,
You are my hero/ine.
Yes, the situation at hand did cause him to be suspicious because she came without his knowledge but he made that statement to an experienced agent who would otherwise qualify to be there and would not be giving it a whirl because she had the requirements to be there. Why would a cadet not be in a more tenuous position than an experienced agent? Then to your point of 14 million, how many of those 14 million are or aren't invested in the characters? Shows that have had more viewers than this show have crashed and burned, albeit slowly, but sometimes quickly, because a character left. Networks shell out big money to certain actors because they know if he/she leaves, the show is in serious problems. I can't say how many of the 14 million are invested in the characters, I just pointed to what it seems like here but neither can you say 14 million unless ther is some specific percentage of those 14 million. For all you or I know, it could be 8, 10, or maybe just 1 million. I don't know, do you?
Please keep Prentiss on the show. She is great!
Who is this new agent? She needs acting lessons!
Don't take Prentiss out of the show. Bring her back.
Why do writers and show execs always ruin a good thing????
I haven't watched 'Valhalla' yet, not sure I will after reading what CM fans say here -- thanks for the hints, guys. Perhaps the Change-is-Bad crew have got a point about Seaver after all. I apologise for thinking your reactions over-the-top or hysterical in the past. It's terrible that the new girl stopped them giving Prentiss a decent send off. Was she on screen all the time? Poor Paget.
:(
Hmm
Anonymous,
Don't let these people fool you with their hysterics. Seaver had almost no screen time in Valhalla.
No Anonymous, thankfully she wasn't on screen a lot for this episode. I think people are just upset because of the mess that CBS created in that now Paget wants to leave, of course the whole firing AJ thing, and being left with a ridiculous character to fill in the gaps. Also, I think people are feeling a sense of dread of what is to be with that character once Paget is no longer there. The Prentiss character was a strong credible character, Seaver is not.
From English CM fan - haven't posted for a while because I was finding that I was getting down with all the distressed comments about the writing and the character lack of bonding and had gone from totally defending CM and being loyal to a season 7 to totally agreeing with all the comments and being doubtful of a half decent season 7 - although I would most likely still watch it.
...This episode..WOW. It is right up there as one if not the best ever. Pacey, well written, full of suspense, well acted and the relationships with the characters starting to show their real strength again. Whoever first mentioned the blossoming bond between Emily and Reid over the last few episodes - I totally agree. It has been lovely to see that mature - mature being the operative word because there was an equality about it - as if they were on the same playing field maturity wise rather than Reid being the "baby" and a thread back to the forgotten headaches. If Emily wasn't one of my favourite characters before she so is now. Yeay JJ is in next weeks. We don't get the CBS gossip over here and rely on internet and blogs to find out what is going on and it isn't always reliable. If Prentise does get to stay then maybe she will do it for the fans. I loved this. It was a redeeming episode for me. I know people are disheartend with the writing this season but there have been a couple of real gems and some real gem moments. This episode - most excellent!
I really enjoyed this episode.
I loved the team interaction and the case.
I have to say that the Prentiss exit storyline lacks some credibility, at least for my taste. But it was still really interesting and this episode left me rooted to my seat.
All those nice little moments between the team members were extremely well done and felt so true to the characters.
I loved all of them, if only because it was so them.
The last scene had such a touch of finality. I'll miss Prentiss, and it was a really touching and emotional scene (even if it was one-sided since the whole team didn't notice Prentiss leaving).
Speaking of Emily's moments with the team, I love the fact that Reid's health problems are not forgotten.
I hope to see more of that in the future. I also hope the writers won't simply tell us it was just related to stress.
After carefully implanting that storyline slowly during the whole season, that would be a real disappointment.
I hope something more will come out of that storyline, like a real health problem (preferably a physical problem) that will make the team stick together.
But I suppose the only thing we can do now is wait and see.
The show is not the same without JJ. She was the heart of the show and there is now a distinct lack of compassion. If Emily goes the show will be devoid of all strong, independent female characters, and I find watching a show about male FBI agents catching killers to be less than appealing. Frankly speaking the new young blonde is lacking. Lacking in cohesion with the rest of the group, and lacking in relate-ability, which would lead viewers to care about what may happen to her.
If it is true that CBS is has done away with JJ and may very well dispose of Emily as well, due to financial issues, such as to fund a terrible spin off, then they are clearly uninterested in the success of Criminal Minds. Anyone who would willingly disrupt the functioning of a successful show in order to direct focus and funds on a sub-par spin off should have their ability to run CBS programming called into question. If I were in the employment of CBS I would cut my loses with Suspect Behavior and turn my attention back to the profitable show, Criminal Minds, and hope that AJ Cook would give CBS another chance.
Howdy you guys great episode this week. Gonna be a rollercoaster the next episode.
Wanna tell you i miss JJ a lot. hope she returns in season 7. But Seaver is actually alright in my book. Don't get the hysterics either. she hardly has any screentime. And she is totally fine on the show. We just need to let her grow as a character. I am sure she will become very interesting down the line
Anonymous said...
"The show is not the same without JJ. She was the heart of the show and there is now a distinct lack of compassion. If Emily goes the show will be devoid of all strong, independent female characters, and I find watching a show about male FBI agents catching killers to be less than appealing. Frankly speaking the new young blonde is lacking. Lacking in cohesion with the rest of the group, and lacking in relate-ability, which would lead viewers to care about what may happen to her.
If it is true that CBS is has done away with JJ and may very well dispose of Emily as well, due to financial issues, such as to fund a terrible spin off, then they are clearly uninterested in the success of Criminal Minds. Anyone who would willingly disrupt the functioning of a successful show in order to direct focus and funds on a sub-par spin off should have their ability to run CBS programming called into question. If I were in the employment of CBS I would cut my loses with Suspect Behavior and turn my attention back to the profitable show, Criminal Minds, and hope that AJ Cook would give CBS another chance."
Criminal Minds didn't have to have so many thing sextracted from it in order to create this spin-off. Writers were fired and shuffled, AJ was fired, Paget's appearances on the show were reduced, and now, we get a character that is simply not in line with Criminal Minds. It is my hope that a complete turn around can be done for Criminal Minds saeson 7. If the network decides to keep the spin-off running, fine, that is their decision, but they should not do it at the continued cost of the original show.
I hope that Paget Brewster decides to stay, but if not, Criminal Minds needs to write in a character that can blend in with the show, not one that is not in line with the ethos that the show created. Creating such a character would help to ease the potential loss created by the character that Paget may leave open. Also, it is important to either try and get AJ Cook back who was wrongfully terminated from the show, if not, then someone to fulfill the role on the show that she left, but I sincerely hope that it is AJ Cook. It is also vital that the show get back to the writing that gelled together and made people clamouring for more. Moreover, Thomas Gibson and Shemar Moore should not become additional sacrifices.
LOL, I realized that I wrote sextracted, it should be extracted. Think I need to go to sleep now, LOL :)
I hope that did not take away from what I was trying to convey in my post.
Fantastic episode! Paget's performance was outstanding! She made me tear, damn!
Paget, honey, why would you want to make me cry, girl?
Loved the whole episode. It was so intense and kept me on the edge the whole time. I could feel Prentiss' tension and her moments with Reid, Garcia and Morgan were beautiful! But I'm still waiting for a scene with Hotch.
Prentiss was trending on Wednesday night. Pure awesome and I was very proud!
Can't wait for "Lauren" but at the same time I don't want it to happen. We need Prentiss, we need Paget on Criminal Minds. End of story.
FUCBS!
JJ: compassionate, witty, beautiful(inside&out), multi-tasker, and persuasive. Damn, she knew how to do her job well. How they could get rid of her, I'll never understand.
Emily: distinguished, sarcastic(I love her sarcasm), gorgeous, knowledgeable, and a fighter.
The very epitome of how a woman should be. Most definitely one of my favourite TV characters ever.
Why did CBS do this...just horrible. I hate CBS.
I can't say how many of the 14 million are invested in the characters, I just pointed to what it seems like here but neither can you say 14 million unless ther is some specific percentage of those 14 million. For all you or I know, it could be 8, 10, or maybe just 1 million. I don't know, do you?
No Clarissa I can't accurately say how many of the 14 million fans are as invested in the characters as many in here are. What I do know is that for every loud disgruntled fan there is a quiet content fan sitting out there completely unaware that they should be up in arms over the state of the show. People who are unhappy are louder than people who are content and I just think it's presumptuous for those who are upset to conclude that because they are upset "everyone" is upset, when that may not be the case at all.
Sf81837 said..
"People who are unhappy are louder than people who are content and I just think it's presumptuous for those who are upset to conclude that because they are upset "everyone" is upset, when that may not be the case at all."
When did Clarissa say that in her response to you, that because people are upset here everyone is upset? By that I mean that you are throwing out the 14 million out there, okay, but you don't know, as I would guess most people here don't know, how many of those people are upset. Unless you have a number that you can point to, you too are being presumptuous as are the people you are saying that are thinking that just because they are upset everyone is.
When people are speaking here, they are speaking for their experience and maybe what they envision other people's experience are. That is all they can really do as they can't possibly know the total number of people out there that are upset now, or who may become upset. Also, how are you basing that those who are unhappy are louder than those who aren't? How did you come up with that conclusion?
Sf81836 said...
"What I do know is that for every loud disgruntled fan there is a quiet content fan sitting out there completely unaware that they should be up in arms over the state of the show."
My last question goes towards this statement. What are you using to base this conclusion? Is it because 14 million are viewing? If so, how do you know if the people who are viewing aren't disgruntled but just don't share that online? Maybe they send letters to CBS, maybe they call the networks, etc.?
Also, the people who are disgruntled here and on other forums, plus those who don't go online (could be a lot of reasons for that, maybe they don't have computers, are unaware of these types of sites, etc.) make up part of the 14 million on average that are viewing. How many of that 14 million is something I don't think has been established, at least I have never seen anything.
There are people who are disgruntled who continue to view for a variety of reasons. Maybe that one actor who they love is still on the show, maybe they like the content of the show, it could be other things or none of these things. Yet still, there are people who are disgruntled but keep viewing because they believe that no matter what they do or say nothing will be changed. This is just from my own personal experience, I know many people that watch CM who are extremely unhappy about the changes that have happened with the show lately. However, these people that I am mentioning don't go online to voice that displeasure. Unfortunately, these are the type that will stop watching all together and some of them are Nielsen viewers. Are there other people out there like my friends? I would imagine so, but I can't say that for sure, nor could I say that for everyone of them there are those who are content. Maybe that is true, but I can't conclusively say that, all I can do is share my opinion that I believe that there are. That is all that anybody here can do no matter what side they fall on, whether that be the belief that there are many that are disgruntled, or that for every one disgruntled there is one content.
Over time, it will be known what side the pendulum is swinging.
Belinda,
Unlike the majority in here, I'm not presuming anything. All I've ever done is try to keep an open mind and assume that everyone doesn't feel the way I do about things and that everyone doesn't feel the same way as many in here do. Read the comments and how they assume that all hell is going to break loose because ZOMG EVERYONE is so sick of the writing and the axing of JJ and Prentiss and ZOMG EVERYONE HAS SPOKEN and Ashley Seaver is never going to fit on this show so get rid of her.
I have no problem with people expressing their personal feelings on things, but I have a problem when those people presume that everyone shares their point of view and if they don't it's because they just aren't true Criminal Minds fans, haven't been watching from the beginning and are just to stupid to see how wrong all of this is. I have no idea what Clarissa's personal feelings on the matter are. My comment wasn't directed at her personally, but in general. She just happend to be the one questioning me.
My last question goes towards this statement. What are you using to base this conclusion?
I base that conclusion on my own circle of friends and co-workers who watch Criminal Minds. I haven't run across one yet that is freaking out over the evil Ashley Seaver and while, like me, they wish JJ and Prentiss hadn't been cut, they aren't freaking out over that either so that tells me that there really are fans of the show out there who aren't aware that they are supposed to be freaking out over the doom that is about to hit their favorite television show.
I have no idea how the masses feel about any of it and don't presume to. I'm content to sit back and watch what happens. If the ratings take a plunge the final six episodes of the season then I'd think that Paget Brewster has CBS right where she wants them. If the ratings don't take a plunge then I'd think that Paget Brewster can come back at whatever terms were offered to her or choose to move on. Either way, I'm fine because I've never been under the impression that my feelings about what I watch on television matter to anyone but myself. I have no power unless I have millions on my side so stomping my feet up and down and declaring I'll never watch again for months on end does no good. When things don't appeal to me any longer I turn the channel. Sometimes millions also turn the channel, but most of the time the show moves on just find without me.
First of all, has anyone noticed they put Seaver in the opening credits? I fliped out!!! I like the team just the way it is, or was I should say because JJ is STILL gone. I dont care how many times they bring her back for an episode, shes still gone!
Second, does anyone else see the possible striing of events occuring with all the characters. Here's what I see...
JJ leaving was just the tip of the ice burge. Prentiss is next to go because of Ian Doyle. Then something similar to tis will happen...
Reid's Headache's could be one of to things in thi sceenario: Asperger's syndrome (google it), or Schizophrenia like his mom, which will take him off the show (which would kill me). Hotch will leave because he needs to take care of jack and Straus is trying to fire him STILL. Rossi will leave for his books. Garcia will ahve to choose between the red cell tea (suspect behaviour) and the offiiall BAU (Criminal Minds), and she'll choose the red cell...
Morgan Will get that job offer he almost got when hotches friend kate Was killed (Season 3 finale saeson 4 priemere). nd Seaver will get called back to FBI academy whre she was before she came here.
Well thats my prediction, thanks for taking the time to listen to my rant. If you have input on what I said just address me in the comments. GO TEAM REID!!!
sf81837, I have been waiting for your reply. Yes, my point in all of that was to say that all you can do is base what you feel on your feelings and perhaps those around you. I have read the comments here and the people are speaking from what they feel and what others around them feel. So, just like you are content to sit back and see what is going to happen, as are your friends, coworkers or whomever else, other people here are expressing the direct oppoiste which to them is just as valid in their circle as yours is in your circle.
I don't quite get your angst if what they feel, if what their opinion is that the show is going to hell, that Ashely Seaver is a mess, that the ratings are going to go down, that the writing stinks. That is their opinion as it is yours that none of these things are going to happen, or that there is a slight chance of them happening, or that everything is fine. Perhaps their repeating of these things is their frustration that nothing is changing, and that too is okay, just as it would be for you to say that no one should worry.
Maybe I am taking your tone out of context but I just don't see what the issue is if people share an opinion 1, 2, 10, or 1000 times.
Belinda said:
"Also, how are you basing that those who are unhappy are louder than those who aren't? How did you come up with that conclusion?"
Actually, this is a well-known statistical phenomenon. It even has a name: the "negative response bias." It means that people who have a negative reaction to something are much more likely to report their reaction than those who have a neutral or positive reaction.
It's also the reason why I pretty much guarantee you that the producers are paying absolutely no attention to the reactions on the forums, or even website and phone call feedback.
More likely, they use controlled data like test audiences and viewership levels to determine which characters and plot lines are working. Since they waited until after Seaver's first episode aired to bring her on full time, I suspect that the ACTUAL (i.e. statistically significant) reaction to her was not nearly as negative as you guys are making it seem.
JML, it had been reported that they were planning to add on the Seaver character all along but they axed that idea because people were still upset over JJ. She was never intended to be a 3 arc episode character, but rather, a series regular that was put on the back burner because the flames hadn't gone down with regard to AJ. You can Google to find those articles. Also, to my knowledge, there were no tests run. This was an idea for a character that Ed Bernero had and presented to CBS. If there is information to the contrary, I have never seen it. Have you?
CBS/CM said right after AJ was fired that they intended to add on a female character.
I am sure CM always intended to add another female character after JJ left.
However, they left the option open as to whether the specific SEAVER character would be the one to fill that spot.
The fact is that they didn't sign Nichols on as a regular until after her initial episode had aired. That is a very strong signal that they didn't want to commit blindly without seeing what the reaction would be.
TV shows are constantly using test audiences, especially when there are big changes to the show. You don't hear about them because the results aren't meant to be public.
JML, if that were the case, they ould have waited until her arc was over not right after one episode. That doesn't make sense if one is running a test.
I just watn to say as an avid reader and Criminal Minds fan,
I have noticed that writers base characters on themselves, parts of themselves, other people they know, other characters they like or dislike (archtypes I guess) and writers also write characters in a fnatastical fashion somtimes,, by that I mean you may write a character in a way that you want to be like. Writing is in a way, living vicariously through fiction and dreams.
All the characters are an incarnation of the writers.
There are people who are similar to Hotch, Morgon, JJ, Prentiss, Rossi, Garcia, Ried( one in a million with hime though unless you watch the big bang thoery which I also love!) and they are all relateable to some extent whether you are like them or want to be like them.
Seaver is obviously based on clarice Starling but with a twist. The problem is with her and whith all characters, the inconsistency of the writing. When it comes to SEaver, her actual personality does not fit the perosnality of someone who finds out thier father is a serial killer,IMHO, and the character is just inconsistent in a lot of different ways. Everything after the first five minutes of Seaver being intorduced onscreen cancels out those five minutes becuase she has not lived up to the kickass, confident persona many were almost expectin or hoping for her to be.
Other characters have.
These things are taken as a whole, not one piece of a whole. If there were indeed a test being run, it would have taken place after her arc finished, with the news coming later that she would be signed on if the results proved favorable. This gives them enough time to collect and sort through that type of data, not after one episode.
I read in several articles that Rachel Nichols was added on as a regular becuase the producers liked what they saw. Theyre was no mention of a test audinece and they usually only have test audiences or anything like that when the show is in pilot mode. Criminal Minds was already established so the prodeucers probably assumed that the audience would like Seaver as much as they did.
ALso, I read that Rachel Nichols was a big fan of the show and that added to Bernero wanting to add her as a regular.
The whole nature of an arc, if one is using it to see how a potential character will fare, is to wait until the arc is over, not after only one piece of the arc is over. The arc is supposed to flesh out the character to the extent that it will tell the viewer who the character is, what that character is expected to bring, how that character will fit into the show, etc.
Belinda, I'm not really sure why you are denying the existence of test audiences? Just go Google it or something...I'm not sure what else to tell you other than TV shows do use test audiences to gauge responses as a more accurate measure than forum feedback. It's just a fact.
Yes, Optika, that is what I have read as well, minus the part that she is a big fan of the show. Not saying she is or isn't, I have just not read anything to that effect.
The producers of the show took a gamble on this character, hoping that she would be well recieved as is the case with other shows. Some people here have mentioned CSI Miami and Lost, those were instances were the show gambled on characters that in the end were not well received. But that is not uncommon, shows take creative risks and gambles all of the time. Some win, some lose.
Optika, test audiences are not only used for pilots, they can also be used when the producers want to introduce changes. This is such a case.
I don't have specific knowledge of any test audiences used for Seaver's episode, because like I said, they're not made public. But this is exactly the type of scenario where test audiences are used.
JML, I am not denying it. Did say that? Please read over my posts. What I said is that it has been reported in various media outlets and by Bernero himself that he and some of the other writers on the show had this idea for a Clarice Starling type character that they wanted to introduce, not that they had this idea, they tested it out with a controlled group, then put it on air.
Also, if you are saying that the results of these test aren't meant to be public, how do you know they were even conducted in this case or what the results of these tests may have been? Again, if you have a source for that, I would like to know.
Anyway, since we will probably never resolve whether a test audience was used, the point is that the producers are certainly not taking the forum hysterics as representative of the CM viewership.
I like Seaver i am sure she will prove herself soon on the show, you just wait and see ;-)
She is beginning to get more people that like her some places and on twitter.
Just give her a break. All new characters is hard to accept. she will be accepted soon
If people disagree with what has happened with respect to the writing on the show, characters being removed and the latest one being added and are communicating that here and at other online CM communities that is hysterics? I don't quite understand that, but that is your opinion and you have a right to communicate that here.
Maybe they are or aren't listening to what is being said here or elsewhere, time will tell I suppose. In the meantime, people should feel free to express whatever comment, or I suppose in your neck of the woods hsyterics, that they feel are important to communicate as many times as they so feel it should be communicated.
JML and Belinda,
I did not know that test audiences were used for beyond pilots but like you said, we wont know if there was one used for Seaver. I for one highly doubt it. I think Bernero just had to go and turn Clarice Starling into a cliche character type and its not going over so well. He did not plan it out also he seems to have done it twice, the other being on the spinoff the character of Gina Lasalle. DOnt watch it , just going by what I know from The Fight Episode.
Also, we dont know for certain if producers are reading the forums or not. I've read that they have in the past and its been implied by some of the actors on CM that they read the forums occasionally.
ALso, the people who do voice an opinion on forums, any of them, can represent a voluntary sample size of the audinece as a whole, if that makes sense. I'm going by what I remember from psych 101 but even people who I know who dont go on the forums say that basically, they dont like Seaver or are not responding to her or find her stimlating in any way.
I don't quite get your angst if what they feel, if what their opinion is that the show is going to hell, that Ashely Seaver is a mess, that the ratings are going to go down, that the writing stinks. That is their opinion as it is yours that none of these things are going to happen
Geez, I feel like I'm beating my head against a wall so I'm bowing out. But don't suggest that it is my opinion that none of the aforementioned horrors will happen because I've never said that I believe they won't. We aren't communicating so I think it's best to just call it a truce and move on.
Optika, I never said that they used a test for the Seaver character and I am not sure with what frequency, if at all, those types of tests are still being conducted beyond the pilot stage. I can't say for certain.
What I did say is that I have never read anything reported that they used that type of test for this charcater. Were they to have used that type of test for this character, they would have waited until the completion of her arc to fully compile and assess that data, not after one episode.
sf81837, I never claimed that it was your opinion, but I think you are correct, bowing out and calling it a truce would be good at this point.
Optika- The producers and writers may very well read the forums. We know that they regularly interact with this blog. However, I highly doubt that they make major decisions based on what they read. Forum posters are not a representative sample- that is Statistics 101.
Belinda- the reason I use the word "hysterics" is because Seaver had about 5 minutes of screentime in this episode, yet a huge number of comments on this thread dedicate paragraphs to the sole purpose of nitpicking every move she made. I read one comment earlier on that said Seaver is lazy because at one point she was leaning against the desk or something like that. Someone else paused the screen and commented on the face Seaver made after Hotch told her to hang up the phone. I mean, really? That kind of thing to me implies total irrationality.
sf81837, The last line was used as only a contrast to what I had said previously, not that this is what I think you feel. Just wanted to clarify that before bowing out.
Belinda,
I agree with you.
Anyway, I am about to rewatch Valhalla to wathc the magnificent Paget Brewster in action becuase her performance was hypnotic! I was glued to the screen, though my eyes tend to wander or roll around when a certain cadet appears. But I am going to support and follow Paget in her career as well as AJ Cook. Really cant wait for next episode.
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