Criminal Minds spoiler thread for "Today I Do" written by Alicia Kirk starring Joe Mantegna, Thomas Gibson, Paget Brewster, Shemar Moore, Matthew Gray Gubler and Kirsten Vangsness.
**Beware! There will be spoilers in the comments :)
Tuesday, February 15, 2011
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544 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 401 – 544 of 544Optika,
Cutting and eating disorders are very sensitive issues that should be treated with as much care and accuracy as possible. It is not implausible that some of the people watching the show have either suffered, are suffering, or know someone who is suffering from on of these issues, and thus, I feel that they should be treated as sensitively as possible.
What comes out of the character Seaver's mouth is a byproduct of what the writer's script out for that character. Yet, the very illogical nature of her character will create haphazard script writing, perhaps not all of the time with issues like cutting and eating disorders (hopefully not), but in relation to the other characters and scenarios in the show. For instance, as many have rightly pointed out, Seaver's presence on the team "dumbs down" Hotch in the sense that Hotch would never have allowed Seaver to join the team, no way. To write him as he would, undercuts him as a character, as the leader of the team. The other characters will also have to be written in one way or another in a sense that undercuts their role on the show. Adding a character should not lead to this type of occurrence, instead, the character addition should enhance the other characters on the show, not decrease them.
A friend and I were just discussing a little snippet of plot for Reid... Reid should get to tackle an UnSub! XD It would be awesome... he would keep failing whilst Morgan tried teaching him, then he'd be muttering to himself about 'trajectory angles' and the mathmatics and physics behind tackling - and he would take down the UnSub! XD Who else would like to see this? :P
I think the episode MGG is directing is "Valhalla" which airs March 2.
I think a fan made up the "TG was golfing" excuse for him not being in an episode. He may have simply been sick and since he tends to keep his privacy, no one connected with the show has discussed it.
And at the risk of being wrong again, I think Morgan trained with ATF, but wasn't necessarily an employee of that agency. I believe ATF trains law enforcement in other agencies just like the FBI/BAU does. (And remember for the truth, go to the actual episode, not wikipedia with its occasional errors.)
And my apologies, because I tend to deviate in response to other posters, but as someone mentioned earlier, this thread is to discuss this episode. The blog owner started an earlier thread for discussing "what's on our minds." (Just go to the main page to find it.)
My bad, MGG is directing the Mar 18 episode, not the Mar 2 one.
March 16
kat887,
TG was at the Ryder Cup (golfing tournament). Unless, I am going crazy, he himself said so and I think maybe Bernero. If I am wrong, sorry about that.
I just looked and there is nothing on Wikipedia about the character Derek Morgan simply just training with the ATF as opposed to him being a member of the ATF (there is no mention of the ATF at all), and from what I have sensed from Zagi's post he or she is a big Derek Morgan fan, so I would be surprised if that information is incorrect. Although, of course it could be. I'll just let Zagi answer for him or herself. *I looked under Derek Morgan in Wikipedia, not the episode, so sorry if there is something written about the ATF at Wikipedi for that episode.
Yes, this thread is to discuss the episode, but I have rarely seen where that sticks to the case. I'm sure the blog administrator will inform us if she no longer wishes to see discussions other than episode discussions in the episode thread; she can also delete the non-episode thread comments too if she'd like.
@RoseLaurel I would love to see Reid tackle an Unsub but I doubt we'd see it unless MGG used a stunt double. That knee of his would pop again. I'd like to see more of Reid being the only one with the smarts to solve the crime. I'm hoping that *Coda* will be like that. :)
I wanna say something here.
I think Seaver hasn't been on enough or given enough time to judge and hate her. She's had maybe 10 or so minutes of total air time. I remember when Rossi came on board - his first episode was ALL Rossi! At least we are being given Seaver in small doses, they aren't trying to make it the "Seaver" show. I think they are doing a good job of introducing her slowly to allow fans time to get used to her.
I do not see her as a replacement for JJ - Seaver is in a totally different position, a whole new character. JJ was the Media Liaison - Seaver is a Profiler, JJ wasn't.... there is no comparison for 2 very different characters.
RoseLaurel: As much as I think it would be entertaining for such a scene to be played out by Reid and Morgan, I cannot imagine it ever happening.
Like coadygirl said, his knee could go out again, for one. MGG has stated that the doctors that treated him for this injury (I believe it involved several different surgical procedures) that they had never seen a knee "explode quite like that." At least I think those were the words he used in an interview several months after the incident. During that same session, I seem to remember him saying something to the effect, that it was not going to be the same again, but that he was lucky to be walking at all. (He was dancing when it went out on him.)
But on top of that, it is just not in Reid's character to do anything like that - I cannot for the life of me picture him doing anything as aggressive as trying to take down an unsub using physical moves.
But it would make for a really cute scene, can you hear Morgan saying, "what am I gonna do with you, kid? Stop trying to use that big ol' brain of yours and put some body into it..." Hah!
See? Isn't it fun to talk about something new?
I like it! Nice goin', girls...
What happens at Home was almost exclusively about her Kimberly, and yes, she is not a replacement for JJ as JJ was the team's Media Liaison, but nor can she be a profiler for the reasons that have exhaustively discussed here again and again. The charactet is illogical for the show no matter how many times she appears on screen, no matter the length if time.
Reid tackling an unsub would be OCC, not to mention dangerous for Reid, yikes! Is MGG's knee something that still gives him problems?
Sorry trying to get used to touch screen typing. OOC, out of character
@kat 887
kat887 said
"And at the risk of being wrong again, I think Morgan trained with ATF, but wasn't necessarily an employee of that agency. I believe ATF trains law enforcement in other agencies just like the FBI/BAU does. (And remember for the truth, go to the actual episode, not wikipedia with its occasional errors.)"
Morgan said in episode 3 season 1: "I`m the only one with an ATF background". I`m not a native English speaker , so I don`t know how that can be interpreted. So maybe I understand it wrong and he wasn`t an employee with the ATF, but he still has an ATF background and not only a cop background. And as you can see, I went to the actual episode and not to Wikipedia or any other unreliable source.
In the episode Won't Get Fooled Again, Morgan stayed behind to examine the bomb because he'd been in the bomb squad. I think he also mentioned this to Cassie in Empty Planet. Maybe that's what he means by an ATF background. I could be wrong though.
Morgan said he stayed behind because he was the only one with an ATF background. Word for word from the episode Won`t get fooled again: "I`m the only one with an ATF background". The ATF is the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco , Firearms and Explosives. When he says he has an ATF background, I assume he either was with the ATF or trained with them. Why would he mention the ATF otherwise. If he didn`t have an ATF background he should have said , he was the only one with bomb quad experience, which he didn`t say in Won`t get fooled again.
zagi,
I'm sorry, I stand corrected!
Pat,
No problem!
Sounds a bit like rats deserting a sinking ship, doesn't it!
I hate to say it Reidfanatic, but I think that analogy may be true.
Or they're just responding to some of the fans wishes.
I haven't heard anything about people being displeased with Mirren. But I'll say this, if Bernero leaves, he needs to take the Seaver character with him, leaving the show with at least a shot to repair some of its credibility.
Also, I think this may be, may be, indicative of stuff that is going on behind the scenes that we are not being made aware of.
The scripts are approved by Mirren/Messer and Bernero. If you hate the writing, by default aren't you saying the exec prod/showrunners aren't doing the job you want them to do.
kat887 said...
"The scripts are approved by Mirren/Messer and Bernero. If you hate the writing, by default aren't you saying the exec prod/showrunners aren't doing the job you want them to do."
All I was saying is that most of the ire I've heard has been against Bernero, not Mirren. I feel the whole show needs a major overhaul. Beginning with bringing in better writers, ridding the show of the Seaver character, and in a perfect world, getting Andrew Wilder back.
Simon Mirren leaving is indeed very sad. I don't think there is a single Mirren episode I have not liked. Andrew Wilder, Chris Mundy and Simon have been my favourite writers since season1. Simon was the only one of the trio left and the episode he wrote this season "Reflection of Desire" was amongst the better season6 episodes. Whilst I like most of Erica Messer's episodes, especially "JJ", I loved that episode, I don't know if she's strong enough to be the showrunner all by herself.
I don't care about Ed either way. I'm sorry, he's as good as gone anyways. I just hope he does us all a favour and takes his master creation Ashley Seaver with him when/if he departs.
Thanks. It seems to me the majority of the angst has been directed at the writers vs Bernero in his role as showrunner. Maybe it's about equal now.
I hope Messer can hold the fort or CBS brings in someone who cares about CM original or the show, as we know it, is definitely over.
What happened to the actual creator of the show Jeff Davis?
Robin,
thank you for all the insight.
Anonymous said...
What happened to the actual creator of the show Jeff Davis?
Yes, that is something I'd like to know as well.
Anonymous said...
I feel the whole show needs a major overhaul. Beginning with bringing in better writers, ridding the show of the Seaver character, and in a perfect world, getting Andrew Wilder back.
Absolutely if Ed leaves, even if he doesn't, the show should rid itself of the Seaver character. Stronger writers who are familiar with the show, who can write for a show like this are needed. Yes, yes, yes, it would be perfect if Andrew Wilder could come back to the show!
According to IMdb, it looks like he's been working on "Teen Wolf," a (possible?) new TV series.
I was referring to Davis.
kat887 said...
According to IMdb, it looks like he's been working on "Teen Wolf," a (possible?) new TV series.
Andrew Wilder? The article says that Simon Mirren is moving back to England.
Oh, okay.. my reply posted after you answered kat887.
Thanks!
How many new writers out of the total/season are there since Andrew Wilder?
Ed Bernero has royally scrwed things up. The actors, most of them, seem smart enough to realize that their characters are out of character lately. They must realize how soap operaish and unrealistic thier beloved show has gotten. Hopefully they do.
I havent heard or read anything, which is cool since they actually abide by the whole "my private life is my private life" thing unlike other actors who dont know when to shut up about themselves.
I digress, all the actors excluding RN, have been on for 4- 6 years now on the show, and they must know their characters really well. Do you think they've noticed the decline in the writing and the ratings?
That is a good question kat887. I think Rick Dunkle and perhaps Erica Messer, but I am not sure who else, or if even that is correct, Dunkle and Messer. I believe there were four or five writers let go at the same time Wilder was let go.
The thing with Wilder is that he was also the show's story editor and since he was such a strong writer and had a knack for these characters he basically made sure that the scripts were on point. And I truly, truly, doubt that a character like Seaver would have ever been conceived on his watch. I am sure he would have wrote in a strong, credible character.
Hope others answer as I may be wrong about the number of writers.
Writers let go at the end of season 4 were Andrew Wilder, Jay Beattie and Dan Dworkin, Debra Fisher. Chris Mundy and Oanh Ly left after season 5. All these writers were fantastic and gave us some of the best CM episodes ever, alongwith Simon Mirren. I may have missed some out. I'm nor sure.
Simon is twitting (sorry to bring the Twitter thing back up) that he is not moving back to England, but rather going to Culver City. This is what he said:
"Sony studios offered me the chance to broaden my horizons, so I am going back to Culver City, very close to where our CM journey began"
That will probably make it worse for the actors. Why were these amazing writers let go anyhow?
Also, jeff Davis seems to have left sometime during the first season after writing only a few eps. Very strange.
Wow! I was not expecting this one.
I liked most of the episodes Simon wrote and his contribution to the show. I wonder what were the real reasons prompted Simon to leave. Creative differences? Burned out? Wants to try something new? I wonder if they will bring in another showrunner or if Erica will be running the show herself. I like Erica and most of the episodes she's written (though she did write the egregious 25 to Life). I wish they would bring back Jeff Davis who created the show in the first place and wrote the wonderful pilot. Or if they bring in someone else, it's someone who understands this show and has a good, strong creative vision for revitalizing it back to the show we love. It's possible. You just need to get in some writers who can writing compelling stories AND good character interaction. I agree that I wish Andrew Wilder and all the writers that left after seasons 4 and 5 would come back.
And now the rumor is Ed might be leaving or at least cutting back. He doesn't seem to have that large of a presence on the show since he shifted over to the spinoff. If he goes, I agree with those that were commenting on the article that hope he takes the character of Ashley with him.
All these changes could revitalize the show if handled properly, OR could be the straw that broke the camel's back. More than ever the show needs to keep Thomas and Shemar and beg to have Paget back, so we at least have continuity with the characters if not the behind the scenes talent.
Assuming Criminal Minds is renewed (and I still believe that it will most likely happen), the next season will absolutely be make or break for this show. It could rise back to its former glory or devolve into a steaming pile of crap. I hope for the former. :)
My, oh my. So sorry to hear about the loss of Simon. He has been one of solid ones, someone to be counted on, who seemed to be truly and wholeheartedly involved.
It would appear that Ed's heart is no longer with CM and he is putting his energy into what he thinks are greener pastures or newer-cutting edge (?) stuff like CM:SB with Forest.
I would love to see Erica hire back Chris Mundy, Andrew Wilder and Debra Fisher or Rick Dunkle or Oahn. Who knows, they may have had "creative differences" with Ed way back, when we all start noticing the writing and continuity going downhill.
It's probably a good thing to have some changes take place because we all can see they are sorely needed. Someone who cares about CM and sees the potential for it to continue in its previous high-quality state (Seasons 1-4) would be the one for the job. Someone with a vision of getting it (& us!) back on track.
I think it was said that Jeff Davis, who originally created the show had some "creative diffs" during that first season and I cannot remember if he chose to or was asked to leave and maybe that's when Ed B. stepped in?
Anyway, as sorry as I am to see Simon go, maybe it is a sign and maybe, just maybe, someone with a strong hand to take the reins will grab hold and turn it back around. We can always cross our fingers and pray, can't we?
I don't want to think that this is the pre-cursor that CM is going down the tubes completely...I want to think positive and hope for the best.
Re: Mirren. It may just come down to creative freedom vs creative differences. Just checked out Sony TV and it looks like a smart move on his part, especially in light of his tweets. Sony execs may allow their producers/writers to create and write instead of just follow (CBS) exec notes. I may be wrong, just my opinion.
Now if we can just free CM from CBS and go with a cable production.
SIMON TOLD A GROUP OF US ON SET LAST YEAR THAT THIS WOULD BE HIS LAST YEAR. THIS IS ACTUALLY OLD NEWS.
Thanks for that note Criminal Minds Fan. I suspected that this wasn't a spur the moment decision on Simon's part.
I think there is an opportunity to turn things around for the show, but this will only happen if the show employs someone of Andrew Wilder's (if not Andrew Wilder)abilities. Diane, totally agree with your statement that,
"The thing with Wilder is that he was also the show's story editor and since he was such a strong writer and had a knack for these characters he basically made sure that the scripts were on point. And I truly, truly, doubt that a character like Seaver would have ever been conceived on his watch. I am sure he would have wrote in a strong, credible character."
Strong writers with a clear vision for CM are needed as well as a strong showrunner. Moreover, to LaShawna's point, now more than ever, efforts have to be made to keep Thomas and Shemar on the show, along with doing everything humanely possible to get Paget to return for season 7. Also agree, that the Seaver character is not something that the show should be saddled with come season 7. Season 7will be a critical one, in my opinion, for the show and it can't be the strongest and the best it can be with that character on board.
I hope that CBS and CM do the right thing and get CM back on track ASAP!
Wow was not expecting that and yes seems that there is a lot more going on than anyone is letting up LaShawna I totally agree with your comments, this most definitely will be the turning point for CM, I honestly think that if they are smart about it, CBS & those who care about this show can turn it around.
They have an amazing cast in TG, PB, MGG,SM, KV & JM (& wish AJ could be brought back) would certainly be a shame to see what they have built up over the past 6 years of the show go down the tubes.
Like you and some of the others say I hope they go back to the roots of this show and bring back some of the people that mattered and who did the amazing job that they did to get this show to where it was.
I’m watching season three again at the moment, watched Elephant’s Memory last night, unlike season 6 so far these are episodes that I will never tire of watching even though I have seen them countless times, and in my perspective that is saying something of the quality of these episodes.
As most have said I do hope that Erica can hold this together whether Ed stays or goes and I hope they can bring in some strong writers to take the show forward.
My biggest issues though is given what has happened recently with JJ & Paget, coming from the CBS angle I somehow don’t get the impression that CBS are doing anything to protect this show rather working completely to cross purposes.
I for one would love to see Andrew Wilder & Jeff Davis back together with some of the stronger writers we had in the earlier seasons, writers who knew how to write the amazing characters we all fell in love with, likely they have moved on and this may never happen but I guess one can hope.
I do fervently hope they fix things with the show and they go from strength to strength as I would love to see these amazing character grace our TV screens, especially Hotch/TG. & the rest of our regular cast.
That's such a shame about Mirren going, I've always enjoyed his episodes. As for Ed B possibly going, I'm not so bothered there. I don't think he's been especially interested in the show for a while now anyway. All I hope is that if he leaves then he takes his creation, Seaver, with him.
The show is definitely in need of a kick up the backside these days so maybe these changes will be a good thing and the show can be turned around and can get back to it's former glory.
It would be awesome if we could get the old writers such as Andrew Wilder and Chris Mundy back but I know that's just wishful thinking on my part. *Sigh*
If Ed no longer cares about CM (and from this season its apparent that he does not), then let's have someone who does. I'm adding my voice to voting for an Andrew Wilder return!!! He always had great stories AND an appreciation for the characters.
Give TG a contract and bring back AW and PB! I'd be in CM heaven!
MKT, I agree!!!! Also, agree with LaShawna, Pamela, Holly M, and Meg.
Bernero can go, but he better make sure to take Seaver with him!!
TG, SM have got to stay and please, please work on a way for Paget to stay! Pretty please!!
P.S. If possible, bring AJ back.
Yeah, whatever about Simon, this season has been dreadful anyway.
Bernero can go too if he is going to keep bringing to the table characters like Seaver.
Can we have Jay Beattie, Dan Dworkin and Andrew Wilder back now?
yes, bernero, go work with your actor star oscar winner better than every other actor ever Forrest and take your child star daddy serial killer dummy carrier bad lines deliver Seaver with you.
Mal,
Geez...that makes me really sad.
gubegirl,
Rick Dunkel is still on CM, he is the one who wrote the next episode 'Coda'. The five writers who left in season 4 were: Wilder, Beattie, Dvorkin, Fisher and Holly Harold. Also first time writer Mark Brunner (Bloodline) decided to take a job on L&O : LA. Ohan Lee left after S5.
It is sad to see Simon go but that happen to every shows as writers want to move to new things. I will miss Simon's writing. Hopefully whoever will be CM showrunner will get writers that are fans and do know the characters and care about them.
CM fan
You people are really unbelievable. All of you are saying Seaver needs to go. WHY?
The show was bad before she came on and you know it isn't her fault at all.
The show is stuck creatively. Seaver got nothing to with the repetitive storylines they use for the episodes like the young serial killer couple or the perfume "remake"
You got no idea what you are talking about only blaming Seaver. When its the individual storylines there is something wrong with.
Yes, the show is stuck in a bad place so why make it worse with a character like Seaver.
This is an opportunity to restart the show, getting it back to what it used to be before. Can't restart when you got an anchor holding it down, an anchor called the Seaver character. They need to get rid of that character, get a showrunner who cares and will pay attention to the show, would be great if they could get some of the old writers back, and beg Paget to stay!
Thanks, CMfan. I may have gotten Dunkel and Dvorkin confused...hey, it's Sunday, and my so-called day off:)
I seem to remember Fisher, too, being one that wrote well, maybe in tandem with another? Who were the "terrible twosome" or something like that? Not that THEY were terrible - just they were able to write about terrible stuff? Or was it the "Gruesome Twosome?" I have no time to research this but I'll bet you'll 'member...
Oh, and if you noticed, people are also saying that the writing needs to get back on par, a showrunner needs to come on board that cares about the show, and that TG and SM should be shored up, while also increasing efforts to get Paget to stay.
Sheryl,
Seaver is the poster girl for what is wring with CM this season; some bad writing. btw if having a cadet in the BAU was not a bad idea then why was the character on the spin off who was also a cadet had a make over and changed into a SSA?
Also, CM always took it stories from real cases, it isn't as if they invented serial killers out of thin air...
CM fan
Gubegirl,
Yes Deb Fisher was one part of the 'gruesome twosome' the other half was Erica Messer.
CM fan
Exactly CM fan, poster girl is right!
I agree with Diane when she says that a character like Seaver never would've made it on CM had Andrew Wilder still been there. He would've inserted a strong and credible character for the show. I really wish there were a way for him the come back!
Seaver must go. I actually hope that Ed Bernero leaves and that Erica Messer is brought on a lot more. Plus hopefully, the old writers will be rehired along with the TRUE CM CAST: Thomas Gibson, Matthew Gray Gubler, AJ Cook, Paget Brewster, Shemar Moore, Joe Mantegna and Kirsten Vangness.
Not only is the character of Seaver a terrible idea for any good crime show, but especially CM, she is played annoyingly by Rachel Nichols! Seaver may have been a more tolerable personality for a few episodes had a better and more interesting actress played her, one who doesnt have any histrionic tendencies. I know its not CM Seaver Edition or anything but i just cant take the consistent pity and sympathy that keeps trying to be evoked by RN's acting ability. Why do we have to feel sorry for her every second? Why are we always reminded of her past?
As far as daughters of serial killers go, Seaver was lucky since she was never harmed and her father loved and protected her. There are many more talented actresses who could have played Seaver in a less irritating fashion without constantly going for the pity vote.
That said, the actual characterization does not belong on CM.
I really hope that next season sees the return of the true CM cast and that the characters go bakck to being written like their real persoanlites. The Seaver effect isnt helping the shows problems at all.
The writing and the quality and the misinformation are also major issues for the show.
I must agree with Optika and Robin on the cutting. I looked it up and they're right. Therefore it isnt actually my opinion but its an actual fact.
Thank you to the two of you for that enlightenment.
I also agree with LaShawna's statements.
CM Fan
Can you answer me why there only has been about 2 or 3 good episodes this year then.
Seaver first came in on ep 10 and has ONLY been on 4 episodes from the 15 episodes.
No Seaver has never been the problem, it is the writing of the cases they are on. All is quick to blame seaver when it isn't her fault at all she is fine and new and will develop Rossi did to.
The show has been bad from the last half of season 5. How is that seavers fault.
You really are running out of excuses to blame her for everything when it isn't even that characters fault it is the CASES they are sent to they have been seen before.
Sheryl, the problem is that Seaver can't develop like Rossi, there is no comparison between the two! Unlike Rossi who has the credibility to be a character on the show, Seaver has none of that. For the love of God, she is a cadet with ABSOLUTELY NO EXPERIENCE! Rossi practically wrote the book on profiling.
Plus, no one is blaming the Seaver character for all of CM's current woes, they, like me, are saying that she is an example of what is wrong with CM. Had CM not been where it is now, Seaver would have have been added as a character to the show.
never would have been added as a character is what I meant to write.
Lysa
You don't know that. You are just saying those things because you don't like. And that is why you can't see her develop.
Christ she has been on 4 episodes. That is whats wrong with you people that don't like her. You are afraid of changes.
What do you mean I don't know that? Have you been watching the show??? The show said that she is a cadet, the show said that she is in remedial training, as of the last episode whe was asking basic questions to the profilers that Reid, for example, answered on the plane. How is that indicative of her having any experience?
Sheryl,
I have never said that Seaver is the reason why CM had some bad episodes. Actually, I think season 6 is okay but not as good as prior season. That said the Seaver character is a bad one because she doesn't fit according to what was established on CM. You have to be an agent before you join the BAU. Reid got in because he is a genius, Seaver is not. Her insight as the daughter of a serial killer would help in very special case, where kids of serial killers are involved but nothing the BAU don't already know.
If the cadet idea was so good why did Ed change it on the spin off?
You are right, the problem is the writing, not the unsubs part, that the new writers got very well. It is with the BAU team they are not getting it.
btw I do not hate Seaver, I am pretty much indifferent to her but what I am not indifferent is how the team is written. Morgan is NOT the unit chief and i don,t like seeing him acting as if he is. Rossi don't much to do in most episodes. Garcia cheerfulness when briefing the team is wrong. I know that is garcia's nature but if her ability to giggles was impaired by looking into people,s life in 'House on fire' then why does she go and look at case files over case files to choose which one the team will work on? This would have been a great job for Morgan, he could have help Hotch with that job.
I have hope that the writers will do better. Randy Huggings is getting the characters, Alicia Kirk might also. Barrois need to work at it.
I still have hope that CM will do better, they just need to focus on the characters a bit more.
CM fan
The show wrote her as a cadet in training.. does someone in training have experience? No, they train to get experience, the problem is to have the type of experience to be on the team she'd have to come back about 7 to 10 years later.
Bottom line, her character is a fail! No amount of episodes that shw appears in is going to change that.
sorry, I posted before I reread myself :(
CM fan
Sheryl,
Let me say this again, I.Do.Not.Hate.Seaver. Is she a credible character? No, will she ever be? Yes, if the show jump ten year in the future and she re-apply as an experience agent. Will I stop watching CM if she stays? No, I will just live with her on the show. She is NOT making me want to change channel when she is in a scene.
CM fan
Oh, and to address your last point, I, and I think I can speak for some people here are not afraid of changes as you so casually tacked on at the end of your post. If the change makes sense for the show, if it aligns with the premise of the show, then fantastic! Example, Prentiss and Rossi.
This is not the case with this character.
I don't want to have to "live" with a character on a show that doesn't fit as one who have to live with a stain on a carpet that won't come out. What do people in that situation do? Well, if they can afford to, they get a new carpet. CM either needs to write a new character and get rid of this "stained" one, or else, if Paget decides to return, just work with the characters of Hotch, Prentiss, Garcia, Reid, Morgan, and Rossi.
They for sure need to get new writers on board, or if they can, get some of the old writers back on board. Whomever the showrunner will be has got to give a damn about the show and what it has always stood for, aligning everything with that, including characters.
This season has been dreadful for the most part. Aside from a few good episodes, this season will probably go down as the worst in CM history; not only because of the incoherent writing and meaningless direction; but because of the decimation of the characters and the firing and diminishing the actors who play the roles. The introduction of the Seaver character with an unrealistic justification and no forethought left many scratching their heads wondering what the ulterior motives really are for what appears to be an undermining of our favorite series. None of it has made any real sense.
From the day we were notified of AJ’s firing and Paget’s role-reduction, we have searched for conclusive evidence as to why this was all happening. We were privy to a few tweets from AJ and Paget; but no official word was forthcoming. Much of what went on with our two favorite ladies was cloaked in mystery with no official word coming from CBS or Ed about what was happening and why. We waited for weeks and months and were never given an explanation; however, we were reassured by Ed and some others, that it had nothing to do with the spinoff. Neither Paget nor AJ would or could offer anything official because this was being done to them; and I’m sure to this day, they have been kept in the dark about the behind the scenes maneuvering that led to their departures just as much as we have.
When Nina Tassler made her comments at the TCA on January 14, 2011 about AJ’s firing and Paget’s role-reduction, more than six months had passed from the time the public was first informed. During the void, most of the spin by Ed and others was designed to reassure us that the spinoff had nothing to do with what happened to AJ and Paget; and that the move was made for creative, some said financial reasons. Then Tassler dropped the official bomb that it was in fact the spinoff that caused executives to reevaluate the original team to see where changes could be made.
Most people were angered by Tassler’s comments; I guess because she confirmed what most of us suspected. I for one was appreciative that someone was finally telling us the truth about the matter and owning up to the mess that was being made of our beloved CM. My anger was directed toward Ed who on more than one occasion said the spinoff had nothing to do with what happened to AJ and Paget, because we believed him. My anger was also at Tassler and CBS who believed this successful show needed tinkering with in the first place; and then decided the tinkering should be to undercut our ladies.
There are always two sides to every disaster; and I’m still not completely sure how these decisions are made and what actually happened. I do know that what has transpired with CM since the changes began has not reflected positively on the series or the cast.
Now Mirren is leaving, whether this was planned or not, his parting words do not resonate like the words of a happy man. And some of the hidden messaging in his comments can be interpreted and reinterpreted in many ways. I have enjoyed many of his episodes; but I have not enjoyed the direction he and Messer have taken CM this season.
They’ve pushed characters like Hotch to the background, mishandling Thomas Gibson’s talent and his years of dedicated service to CM. He should be in the forefront like the leads of other CBS shows, not misused and diminished as he has been this season. They have inexplicably elevated Morgan in a direct attempt to undermine Hotch, causing fans to turn against the Morgan character, when both characters were loved for the roles they played...
cont...
They’ve driven Garcia down our throats while Prentiss was relegated to sidekick status; only to have Prentiss receive increased but still limited screen time a month before her exit. And I too find the Seaver character unjustifiable and weak; and I deplore the writers’ attempt to give her credibility and legitimacy by tying her training/mentoring to Prentiss or any other character. The character should be able to stand on her own and have the requisite knowledge, experience and training to justify a position with the BAU.
The fact that her return was done off-camera in an episode that Hotch wasn’t even in is a telltale sign that the writer, director and the producer could not legitimize the scripting of the event; “when in doubt, leave it out.” It’s a character that was ill-conceived from the start; and no amount of time will legitimize a character that’s built on a premise that is false and illogical.
As many have already said, maybe Mirren’s leaving isn’t necessarily a bad thing. In my mind Ed has already left the building and is focused on his new spinoff and pilot deal. Simon apparently has not had the freedom or flexibility to explore his true desires and Sony apparently will offer that. Messer has done some really good episodes, although 25 to Life was an all-time low. I’m not sure if the direction of the season was Mirren’s and Messer’s responsibility or if they were following some roadmap that had been laid out for them. Hopefully, with Mirren’s exit, Messer will throw out whatever guide they were using and start to put the pieces of the original CM back together.
I’m with the growing sentiment who would love to see Andrew Wilder take over the helm as showrunner. CBS would derive much benefit by strongly recruiting Wilder; and it would establish the network’s true commitment to ensuring that CM survives and thrives.
I was watching CM Season 1 DVD’s while reading the blog and thought I really ought to re-watch last week’s episode before making a comment. I switched over and found that my channel was already on A&E and “Mayhem” is on and I couldn’t stop watching it to go watch “Today I do.” Next up “Angel Maker” which is full of Hotch too, why would I go watch an episode with so little Hotch/TG.
While I was reading through the posts I noticed some questions about “25 to Life” and scene with Hotch and Jack; there was only 1 page of scene with a note, omitted.
I’d like to respond to Annie’s questions:
Why do you guys still watch the show? I watch because I’ve come to care about the characters and most especially Hotch.
What is the reason why you tune in every week? ENTERTAINMENT, for me is a good thriller with interesting characters.
Why do you still turn on your tv to watch it every Wednesday? There are only a few of this year’s episodes that I found unworthy of my DVR’s attention, most notably “25 to Life.” I tune in every week to hoping to enjoy the show I’ve come to love.
What would be the one thing that could happen that would make you stop for good?
NO HOTCH=NO CM 4 ME!!!
Happy Sunday everyone!!
Criminal Minds Fan, please, if you can, print out sdwally's comment and give to someone, anyone at CBS and/or CM. Otherwise, I am hoping that they are truly still reading these comments because sdwally said it all!
Thanks sdwally!
I feel so sorry for Rachel Nichols. She is one of sweetest celebs out there. and some people can't separate Seaver and her. It is just wrong. I really want to give her a chance and i think you all should do that to. It is not fair to the actress to get so much hate when her character is in the background. This is an ensamble cast it always has been like this Give her a half season of episodes. Then we can judge her character. Because put yourself in Nichols shoes she only took a job. Thats all she should not get so much hate because of that.
I've been dying to cut and paste this comment, and Michael, you gave me the rationale to do so:
""Ad hominem attack (also called personal abuse or personal attacks) usually involves insulting or belittling one's opponent in order to invalidate his or her argument, but can also involve pointing out factual but ostensible character flaws or actions which are irrelevant to the opponent's argument. This tactic is logically fallacious because insults and even true negative facts about the opponent's personal character have nothing to do with the logical merits of the opponent's arguments or assertions."
So your continual assertions that people are "haters" falls in line with this logical fallacy and holds no bearing. What it does is negates your agrument. Moreover, it does not address the specific points and/or reasoning that people have addressed in their comments."
This was originally targeted towards another commenter, but it fits with your comment as well.
Please read sdwally's comment because sdwally nailed it like no other with regard to the Seaveror you character. Here, I'll even cut and paste it you:
" And I too find the Seaver character unjustifiable and weak; and I deplore the writers’ attempt to give her credibility and legitimacy by tying her training/mentoring to Prentiss or any other character. The character should be able to stand on her own and have the requisite knowledge, experience and training to justify a position with the BAU.
The fact that her return was done off-camera in an episode that Hotch wasn’t even in is a telltale sign that the writer, director and the producer could not legitimize the scripting of the event; “when in doubt, leave it out.” It’s a character that was ill-conceived from the start; and no amount of time will legitimize a character that’s built on a premise that is false and illogical."
I don't have anything against Nichols, rather, the character she is portraying and sadly that character is not a fit for CM. Above all, I put CM's interest over any actor or actress.
Most people who like Rachel Nichols as an actor dont hate her. Some do think she is a terrible actress, and I am one of them. I also think Seaver is a horrible character.
I am more than capapble of separating the three different entities here and most are more than capable of separating RN and Seaver so please dont twist people thoughts and comments.
Rachel Nichols as a person may be one of the sweetest celebs but that doesnt mean she cant be a bad actress. She may have taken a job but...she can get another job. She has GI Joe 2 lined up and a few others jobs. She has a burgeoning career in movies. She doesnt belong on CM as Ashley Seaver. Her character is too butchered to be fixed, and its messing with the show's whole dynamic.
What is this boo-hoo stuff with Rachel Nichols? She is an actor just like any other actor. When you take a job as an actor on a TV show, there is no guarantee how long you are going to have that job for.
My concern is Criminal Minds and where it is today and where it will continue to go if the writing continues as it has. The Seaver character is an illogical character that was beyond poorly conceived and as such needs to be written off. That is not a Nichols thing who I don't have anything against, this is solely about the character that she is playing on the show that is not a fit for CM.
Agree with Michael here..
If they got rid of Seaver as you say. It would still suck storywise.
Just saying getting rid of seaver, will not solve any problems this show has. It has to do with the cases they are on, its the same stories over and over again, and they steal from movies now also.
So, what is your solution Sheryl, keeping on a character that is beyond wrong, illogical and poorly conceived for CM? Is that going to work? You can't fix a house if the foundation is all off.
The show needs to infuse better writing, get a showrunner that gives a you know what, and work with credible characters, not one that defies all logic and convention.
Sometimes I feel like people purposely don't read what people have posted, or they just chose to hone in on what they want.
Here is what I have read in a nutshell:
1. Show needs to get writers that know how to write for CM, preferably by getting back some of the old writers
2. Get a showrunner that can exclusively pay his or her attention to CM. A showrunner who is aware of how the show would run script and character wise, preferably someone like Andrew Wilder.
3. Make sure that TG and SM's contracts are renewed to where the actors get what they deserve
4. Try and convince Paget to return for season 7
5. Write out the Seaver character that doesn't fit with the show, a character that never should have been written into the show in the first place
With that being written, I don't get how some people are saying that people are only focusing on getting the Seaver character off of the show. Umm, what?? Everything has been written by some people as having to happen all together, not one or two, but all together. That is not hard to get if one reads the comments.
To Sheryl:
If they got the wrongly fired writers back, there would be no more ripping off from movies because those writers knew how to write creatively, and come up with their own ideas based on real life cases. And Seaver would also automatically have to go since she, too, is a rip off from a movie.
BRING BACK ANDREW WILDER!!!
no tg no cm for me in s7.
Oh, and I forgot to add: No Hotch? No CM 4 me.
I don't think I am asking much just that the writers pay attention the the CM characters. Get TG and SM a contract and get a show runner that care about CM. Wish that was Ed but it is obvious now that he only care about the spin off and his new show. Too bad as both are no sure things next season.
Like most have said, 'No Hotch, No CM!'
someone who doesn't care about Seaver
The Shimmering Sky said...
"To Sheryl:
If they got the wrongly fired writers back, there would be no more ripping off from movies because those writers knew how to write creatively, and come up with their own ideas based on real life cases. And Seaver would also automatically have to go since she, too, is a rip off from a movie."
OMG, The Shimmering Sky, this is brilliant! I hadn't thought of that as a response, but it is so true. As a byproduct, that character would automatically have to be out under the reasoning given by the poster.
I really hope Ed Bernero does not leave the show. He writes like a proper writer -- his stories have shape and energy as well as character. People aren't really judging the thing fairly.
It's easy to do the little dialogue-y bits of writing -- look how many indifferent hobby writers manage to pull off characterful fanfiction. They get the voices right; but how many of them are able to produce a good story, control the tension, or balance one idea against another? For that you need someone with a larger view of how event, idea, character and image fit together.
A lot of folk on this forum are into whining, it seems to me, I'm sorry to say, and you're underestimating the talents of the writers behind the show.
I'm sorry to come on strong, but I like our Ed.
UK viewer
CMSB Ed Bernero has as its priority. CM is not. CM Bernero left tend ago when "love " of FW, so it is better that it be made official.
I think that Wilder is the best option, yet still the problem of presenter best scripts and to change the character of RN.
I do not think the remove request is real, it is a fact that we will see Seaver in the plot, but at least improve on something that fateful character, give it personality, at least one story that goes beyond being the daughter of a serial killer.
And give more focus to the interaction of team as family, especially Morgan, who seems to be tired, I do not like that character have been performing this season, it seems Superman, not the superpowers but because he works alone.
This is ridiculous! Why doesnt CBS just cancel the show and put the cast and fans out this misery!!!
This show has never been marketed like the spinoff...the cast is under-appreciated.....
Heres hoping Paget and the rest of cast find a place of happiness....
FED-UP OF THE CM SPIRAL!!!
Aside from the Seaver character I love this season. I don`t see a problem with the writing. I enjoyed most of the episodes so far and I love the more darker tone of the episodes. I also like that the characters have become darker. The darkness of the subject matter of the show and the dark serious characters are what attracts me to Criminal Minds. And that is why I still love the show after five and a half years. And this season is great.
Zagi, I agree completely with you. I'm loving this season as much as I have loved any CM season -- and far better than Season 5.
I'm kind of sad to see so many people unhappy with it. For me, they've got the balance between plot and team just right.
UK viewer
This season is not a bad one. I have liked most of the episodes except for 25 to life. What I haven't like are a few things; Morgan acting as the unit chief when he isn't, way too much of Morgan this season. Morgan is at his best when he is supporting Hotch. Hotch being in the background. Stories that focus too much on the unsubs. The team, at time, feels like strangers to each others, that is more notable in episodes written by some of the new writers.
What I do love this season; interesting unsubs, The Prentiss storyline, when I watch an episode I feel like I am watching a movie.
So far I am neutral about Seaver, I will wait and see before forming an opinion on her.
As for Ed, his episodes are among my favorites and I wish he would stay but only if he still has an interest in CM. CM should be his first priority, not the spin off or the new show as those are not picked up shows, yet. What is happening with Ed, well as far as us fans can judge, is that he is giving too much attention to other projects. This has happen to other shows which had spin off. Mark Harmon of NCIS made the same complain about the showrunner when NCIS:LA came out.
Unlike some here, I do not think all is as dark as some like to repeat over and over. CM is still a very good show that just need some adjustments to be once again a great show.
Debbie
I have to respectfully disagree with the assessment that this season has been okay thus far. While I do not feel that every episode has been horrible, it has been difficult for me to think of two or three episodes that I would watch again. This has never been an issue for me in the past. There are episodes from past seasons that I've watched numerous times. Nowadays, whenever I watch a season 6 episode, I feel like I am playing be "I wonder what movie they will using to base this week's episode on." Don't get me wrong, I understand that shows get inspiration from movies and books. However, the use of this of this inspiration should not be so noticeable that right away you can name the movie or book that the episode is using as a guide for their script. Inspiration from movies or books should serve to enhance an original idea, it shouldn't be the idea itself. In the past, CM did a good job in creating episodes that were centered on completely original ideas, and when they did use movies or books as inspiration, it did so in a way so as not to outshine the original concept for that episode.
On that note, that is why I feel that characters like Seaver are a fail because there is truly nothing original about this character aside from the whole her father is a serial killer angle which really doesn't further the character, the other team members, or the episode. Character additions like Prentiss and Rossi were original concepts for characters and as such have the potential to grow in that original way, not be tied to a movie concept that doesn't work for CM as the show has been presented and has evolved for the past 5 years. That is why for me, I think they need to go back to the mold and either create a new character, or if Paget Brewster decides to come back to the show for season 7, work on rebuilding the original team.
I hope that CM takes this latest departure as an opportunity to get back to a place of originality. Again, they don't necessarily have to abandon being inspired from movies or books, just do that in a way where that enhances the best of what CM has always offered.
It's not a tragedy for writers and producers to move on, especially if they're feeling tapped out; sometimes fresh blood can rejuvenate a series. Look at the great job Randy Huggins did with Sense Memory...a new or occasional writer can create an amazing episode provided he/she immerses himself/ herself in the back story.
And, no offense, but I'm wondering how qualified the person who questioned Erica Messer's qualifications to run the series is to judge?
Let's hope for the best :)
For those of you who think CM has gone downhill: The Hotch/Morgan relationship hasn't changed from Season 1. Season 5 was excellent. And Season 6 has so far been an amazing body of work. EB has been in charge from almost day 1. Get rid of him and you'll suddenly love the show again? Really? Maybe you've just outgrown the show. Move on.
Getting new blood is a good thing, it gives a new perspective on things. I'm not worried that Mirren is moving out, every shows lose writers and ex-producers all the time. I like his writing and I wish him well at Sony.
I hope we can get another good writer as Randy Huggins, I really liked his last episode, a solid effort that reminded me of past episodes.
Erica was a deception with '25 to life' but she has written some good CM too, 'retaliation' was good. As for her work as showrunner, difficult to judge since we had 3 showrunners this season. that said she does share blames with Mirren and Ed on the writing decline seen in some episodes. When it comes to Seaver that is Ed doing. When you look at how well Prentiss and Rossi were integrated to the show, you have to wonder what was Ed thinking. can this character be salvaged? Only way I can see is if she gets to be a SA and is assigned to the BAU as a junior agent and ACT as a junior agent. What gets to me is that she is suppose to be this newbie agent but she never act like one. She gives profiles as if she's been a veteran profiler!
That said, I still loves CM, I'm still watching, only thing that would make me stop watching is if Thomas Gibson was to leave. CM without its one and ONLY unit chief, Hotch, is just not acceptable to me!
Veronica
kat887
If people think that what has been served up thus far for season 6 has for the most part been garbage, then they have outgrown the show and must move on? Excuse me, but who are you are to make that detrmination. It is wonderful that you think that what has shown thus far season 6 has been great. That is your opinion and I am sure that others who feel the same way you do appreciate you sharing that opinion, but for you to say that others who don't feel the same way that you do is out of line.
I think this season thus far has not been good, a trend that I believe started from mid season 5. My hope is that the rest of this season will be strong and I am looking forward to how they piece together next week's episode.
As for Ed, he hasn't been much on the CM scene lately anyway, so whether he is completely gone will, I think, not rock the boat but provide an opportunity for someone who can dedicate 100% to the show a shot to work with it. Additionally, the contribution of the Seaver character by Ed shows me that maybe it is time for him to give the CM reigns to somebody else. Of course, that is my opinio, but I would never say that those who don't agree with me should move on.
kat887,
I will move on when I decide to move on not when you decide I should.
CM fan
Anyone ever read Blink by Malcolm Gladwell? Or heard of the term thin slicing? Thin-slicing is a term used in psychology and philosophy to describe the ability to find patterns in events based only on "thin slices," or narrow windows, of experience.[1] The term seems to have been coined in 1992 by Nalini Ambady and Robert Rosenthal in a paper in the Psychological Bulletin.[2]
This is one explanation of why we as audience members have formed opinions about our beloved characters on CM or any other show. SOme people can effectively thin slice very well. Thin slicing is also how many first impressions are formed, like Ashley Seaver and/or Rachel Nichols.
Just a thought, that is interesting, except, when it comes to Ashley Seaver (I am not addressing Rachel Nichols because seriously I think it is beyond stupid that people are linking those two up as if they were one), the fact that she is a cadet is really all one needs to know about her to determine that this is just an insane character addition for the show.
To borrow from a comment I say elsewhere,
"For 5 seasons it has been emphasized that the BAU is an elite team of specialized agents who had to work to earn a place on that team. This character is a CADET. She hasn’t worked her way up the ranks to earn a spot in any specialized unit. It completely undermines everything the unit stands for."
That is all the information I need to know about this character to determine that it is a wrong fit. My question is why would the show want to take these steps back, as others have said, instead of moving forward with strong characters that make sense for the show, that add the experience and credibility that not only make it flow, but what make it stand apart from other shows.
My assessment of this character is not being done on an emotional level, or based on just the 4 episodes the character has appeared in; it is being based on the fact that no matter how you slice it (sorry for the pun) her character is not a fit for the show. This is something that will remain true no matter how many episodes the character appears in.
I thought Simon Mirren had already left! Woops!
Also interesting that he's Helen Mirren's nephew, didn't know that.
@ Alison, I knew he was still there, but I didn't know that he was the nephew of Helen Mirren.
It will be interesting to see what projects he works on next.
Shannon,
I completely agree with you. I only offered up the thin slicing to those who are judging us and coining u as "Seaver Haters". For some who are still waiting to see how the season progresses in terms of Seaver, thin slicing is just one way of judging a character. It is not purely emotional though. It has to do with our adaptive unconsicous, the part of our brain that processes information so quickly we barely register that we've given it a thought.
I read somehwere that someone thinks that Rossi and Seaver's reltaionship is reminiscent of Gideon and Reid's relationship.
ITS NOT! Seaver is one of the most major setbacks the team can have and she is beyond irritationg and seems to be misinforming the BAU about certain issues such as cutting and eating disorders. Seaver must go!
Just a thought, sorry. Thank you for replying and clearing that up.
Again, sorry and thanks for bringing up that perspective.
To Just a thought,
Or our slicing has to do with the fact that this is just a TV show.
kat887, yes, it is a TV show that you apparently don't care if they add a Leprechaun to profile. We get that, we get that...
But I personally find insights like Just a Thought's interesting, oh, and by the way, so do the networks because it is part of what they do with focus groups.
kat887,
tv land moves fast and writers and creators are always saying that they want things to be based in reality.Thin slicing has a lot to do with tv and movies. You are given between half an hour to 2 and a half hours or more, depending on the medium to decide if you like the plot, storyy and the characters. Short amount of time leads to quick decision making.
Thank you Fedra and Shannon.
Also, I dont understand what exactly you are trying to say.
I actually didnt know that about the focus groups but it makes sense.
Btw, the audience doesnt like to be treated as stupid. So we dont want stupid characters on a tv show that was known for being an underrated great program like Criminal Minds.
just a thought,
I took your comment to mean that we are slow witted if we are curious to see where the creative impulse takes the writers, whether they succeed or not.
Do you have a reference for producers/writers in TV land wanting things to be real? Because IMO every procedural is so far off the mark, they must be dreaming.
Fedra,
You're mistaken. I didn't even know leprechauns had been profiled on the show. What did Reid say?
kat887,
What I meant is a Leprechaun as a profiler, not to be profiled.
And networks do want a slice of reality in crime procedurals which is why they consult police officers, district attorneys, etc. Bernero, being an ex-cop, has been sought after because he has that background (10 years as a Chicago police officer).
Shows like the one that used to appear on NBC many moons ago "Proflier" consulted people like Robert Ressler, an FBI profiler, to consult on the show.
You're welcome Just a Thought.
Fedra,
Oh, I see. Just reread your previous post. (I'm laughing.)
But only a slice of reality. As noted in the Season 1 DVD set. There is no way Reid would be a member of the FBI.
Yes, of course, a slice of reality. I doubt they would be able to maintain an audience with a show that point for point goes in line with the real FBI or police department.
However, the problem with characters like Seaver being thrusted onto the show is that not only does it violate any slice of reality, more importanty, it violates the "reality" the show created for itself and that is not acceptable.
By the way, doesn't the actor who played the guy who poisoned the town look like the profiler who wrote Mindhunter. I don't think the profiler was Ressler, first name is John I think. Every time I see that episode, I think he's guest starring.
Fedra,
I understand your comment.
John Douglas.. hmm, got to look at that episode again. Haven't seen it in a while.
If anyone watches fanvids on youtube, you may be interested in this:
a compare and contrast vid The Inside/Criminal Minds about Rachel Nichols' characters Rebecca Locke and Ashley Seaver. you can see how similar they really are and the little tweaks for yourself.
I am not a fan of Seaver or RN fan but one CM fanvid led to another and I can see why some people dont like RN either.
Oh my God Anonymous! Seaver wasn't a rip-off of Clarice Starling, she was a rip-off of Rebecca Locke on the Inside!!!!
I've never seen the Inside, so I can't say if what the clips showed that were comparing and constrasting both Seaver and Locke were how the Locke character acted throughout the Inside series, but wow, yeah, the same type of acting between both characters. The same "Mary-Sueish" scenes, tragic family background (Locke was apparently taken as a young child and held by a child predator for 18 months), both are Rookie FBI agents, and even one of the male characters in one of the Inside clips made a sarcastic comment about Locke trying to act as if she is some sort of Clarice Starling.
I only found one video, but that video, wow, it shows how the characters are very similiar and the acting is almost identical as well. Wow, that is really bad! Come on Criminal Minds, let's get an original character on this show, please! A character that is strong, credible, fits, and makes sense for the show. Not some character that is a rehash of a show that was cancelled, or some character in a movie.
1. Renew TG and SM's contract. Do not continue to shortchange these guys, they more than deserve a raise for all of the hard work they put into making CM success. The same goes for MGG insofar as the reported raise that he is seeking.
2. Shore up the writing by getting people who were able to write CM in a suspenseful psychological manner. The type of way that kept many viewers on the edge of their seats because the storyline was psychologically thrilling, intelligent and clever.
3. Whomever of the show runner will be, I hope that it will be someone that will commit 100% CM's success.
4. Do everything in your power to convince Paget Brewster to come back for season seven. I know this is largely out of your control to the extent that it is ultimately her decision, but I think a good faith effort on your part as well as a raise may help. I think it is important for actors (or really any employee) to sense that they are appreciated and valued.
5. Please do not continue the Seaver character going into season seven. One million times over this has nothing to do with the actress who plays the role, but rather the ineffectiveness of this character on the show. Most people, say that they will either block her out, or just plain what her character says because of the lack of believability and credibility this character brings to the BAU table. How is this helpful for the show? Doesn't the show want the strongest and most credible characters it can utilize to strengthen the content delivered on the show? I would think that the answer to that question is yes, and if it indeed is yes, then that would necessitate that this character be eliminated from the show.
There is a chance for CM to come back stronger than ever for season seven but I am afraid that if the above things are not done then CM will grow weaker. The fans love CM and want to see it be the strongest it can be.
Those who say RN character in CM is the same as the inside must be on drugs or never seen The Inside.
They are not the same at all. On the Inside she was kidnapped as a child and held prisoner by a madman. Seaver is a child of a serial killer and didn't have a disturbing childhood because her father was actually good to her.
She is more Clarice Starling then Rebecca from the Inside. Because as Clarice she is also a cadet that comes to work for the FBI. But from the spoilers she will soon be an agent and not a cadet anymore. So there goes the cadet issue you all have
Peter it was me that said it and I did not say that there were identical, what I said was almost identical was the acting. Both of those characters are similiar in, well, let me put it in number form to make it simpler for you since it seems that paragraphs may elude you:
1. Mary Sue quality- you can look up what a Mary Sue is via Google
2. The both had tragic backgrounds
A. One was a daughter of a serial killer
B. The other was kidnapped by a predator as a child and held for 18 months
3. Both are rookie FBI agents
And for the love of God, even newly graduated from the Academy she will still (Seaver) not be qualified to be part of the BAU.
Have you read any, and I mean any, of the posts here Peter? From your comment that Seaver will be qualified to be a part of the BAU as an Academy graduate, I will say no. Please, please, please, read the many, many, many comments that DETAIL why that would not be the case.
I forgot to add one more
4. The acting of these two characters as shown in the video is virtually identical, except, as Anonoymous mentioned a few tweaks.
Peter, I have seen The Inside and I am so not on drugs thats its pathetic!
Rn acts virtually the same in both CM and The Inside and both Seaver and Rebecca Locke are virtually the same sappy Marry Sue, badly wirtten, movie rip off characters. They are of the same cloth. Afew tweaks but neither is original.
Btw, The Insaide got canceleed for a reason. Great premise, bad lead actress and bad episode writing.
AS for the cadet thing, Seaver will graduate into a ROOKIE which still translates into NOT BELONGING ON THE ELITE AND EXPERIENCED BAU TEAM!
SO PLEASE STOP TAKING OFF EVERYONE'S HEAD EVERYTIME SOMEONE SAYS THAT sEAVER SUCKS OR IF THEY VOICE THAT RN'S ACTING SUCKS. ITS STILL HOLLYWOOD. ACTORS GET ATTACKED ALL THE TIME! IT IS PART OF THEIR JOB!
Please read Optika and Robin's comments as well. They were very insightful as were the last 15 comments.
Yes I have an Opinion said...
"AS for the cadet thing, Seaver will graduate into a ROOKIE which still translates into NOT BELONGING ON THE ELITE AND EXPERIENCED BAU TEAM!"
Thank you!!!! This is exactly why I said that I believe he hasn't read the comments which time and again have pointed this out. It is really not that hard to get. A rookie is a rookie and does not belong in a specialized unit. It is specialized for a reason.
Acting, writing, drawing, painting, etc.. are all creative endeavors and as such are open to public scrutiny. Some may like the work produced, some may dislike it, others may feel indifferent. The main point as the Anonymous writer stated is that as a creative person in a creative field you have to be prepared to receive appraisals of your work, whether the apprasial be good or bad. As such, I find it ridiculous and quite unfortunate that people are attacking other people for their appraisals of a creative persons work, keywords being "their appraisal." In this case, people's apprasial that the Seaver character is a poor one for CM, and still others who do not appreciate the acting coming forth from the actress who portrays the Seaver character.
It is helpful to note at this point that not everyone who dislikes the Seaver character for CM also has an issue with the way the actress who plays the character is coming through on the screen. However, for those who have an issue with the character and the actresses portrayl of the character, that is something that is completely normal. On this website, it is being done by fans of the show, in Hollywood, it will be done by paid critics. Whatever the case, as a creatiive person in a creative field producing work for mass consumption, both good and bad will be thrown their way, and I see no reason why people are reacting in a way that the creative person him or herself would not react to bad appraisal of their work. It is part of their job to take in good and bad criticism and I see no reason why people can't voice that type of criticism here without themselves being attacked. If an actor did that type of attacking, I assure you, they would not be in the business for very long for they are expected to suck it in and move on.
Does anyone think that AJ and Paget look kind of alike with different coloring?
AJ is very wholesome looking with gorgeous eyes and I bet she can do the whole blonde bombshell/ Hitchcock thing if given the chance. Paget is very classically beautiful, very darkly beautiful.She's got stunning doe eyes and full lips.
I think that they can pass for sisters almost.
Sdwally I tip my hat to you … very well said, and Tia your summary is perfect.
I hope that Sdwally’s comment is one that CBS, and those who care about getting this show back on track do read …all very valid points, especially …
This season has been dreadful for the most part. Aside from a few good episodes, this season will probably go down as the worst in CM history; not only because of the incoherent writing and meaningless direction; but because of the decimation of the characters and the firing and diminishing the actors who play the roles. The introduction of the Seaver character with an unrealistic justification and no forethought left many scratching their heads wondering what the ulterior motives really are for what appears to be an undermining of our favorite series. None of it has made any real sense.
They’ve pushed characters like Hotch to the background, mishandling Thomas Gibson’s talent and his years of dedicated service to CM. He should be in the forefront like the leads of other CBS shows, not misused and diminished as he has been this season. They have inexplicably elevated Morgan in a direct attempt to undermine Hotch, causing fans to turn against the Morgan character, when both characters were loved for the roles they played...
They’ve driven Garcia down our throats while Prentiss was relegated to sidekick status; only to have Prentiss receive increased but still limited screen time a month before her exit. And I too find the Seaver character unjustifiable and weak; and I deplore the writers’ attempt to give her credibility and legitimacy by tying her training/mentoring to Prentiss or any other character. The character should be able to stand on her own and have the requisite knowledge, experience and training to justify a position with the BAU.
The fact that her return was done off-camera in an episode that Hotch wasn’t even in is a telltale sign that the writer, director and the producer could not legitimize the scripting of the event; “when in doubt, leave it out.” It’s a character that was ill-conceived from the start; and no amount of time will legitimize a character that’s built on a premise that is false and illogical.
I’m with the growing sentiment who would love to see Andrew Wilder take over the helm as showrunner. CBS would derive much benefit by strongly recruiting Wilder; and it would establish the network’s true commitment to ensuring that CM survives and thrives.
Looking forward … Coda is looking promising and I’m hoping that this will be a stand out episode, most of all I’m hoping that we have our team back, the characters we love back and more than anything that we have our Unit Chief back.
And as someone asked earlier in the thread why do I come back? why do I watch this show?, I watch for the characters, I especially watch for Hotch/TG, CM for me is Hotch/TG.
I watch for the true to life intelligent, attention to detail stories this show has brought us in it’s many forms, and the profiling of these unsubs by the amazing characters, this ‘Elite’ Group of BAU profilers, who make this show tick. I watch for the team dynamic, for the interactions, for the interplay, for the impact they have on peoples lives with the work they do, the impact they have on each others lives through the work they do. (and so the exclusion of the Rookie AS character!).
Loved the MGG video just posted. Towards the end of the video, he hinted at the fact that in the episode he directed "maybe" a team member was leaving, so as foolish as it maybe, I am holding out hope that Paget will return for season 7.
He also said that maybe someone is coming back, which I am hoping would be AJ; that would be awesome! He said maybe death, but from what all of the reports have been lately, they are leaving Paget's exit open for her to possible return season 7 (I hope she comes back!).
Who I don't hope comes back for season 7 is Seaver!!! Ugh, I am dreading the season 6 episodes where Prentiss will be gone and Seaver will be there, a rookie agent. God, that is so stupid!!!!! I don't know how many of those episodes I will be able to watch.
I just found this and decided to copy and paste it
by Michael Ausiello Categories: Ausiello TV, Comic-Con, Criminal Minds, Criminal Minds: Suspect Behavior, Scoop
If you thought Criminal Minds scene-stealer Kirsten Vangsness was suffering from a case of survivor’s guilt in the wake of costar A.J. Cook’s high profile dismissal, well, you’d be right. Making matters worse, Cook’s departure coincided with the announcement that Vangsness’ character—kooky computer tech Penelope—would be featured on both Minds and its spin-off, Suspect Behavior. While Vangsness maintains that her promotion had “nothing to do with” Cook’s exit, she concedes the timing of the two events was unfortunate. “It was a galvanizing experience—[they] just fired my friend,” Vangsness sighs. “It was a total shock. It absolutely affects morale. It sucks.”
Source: Well goddamn that is infuriating. I guess I have to seek out a new show to view. As much as I adore actress Rachel Nichols as the sexier replacement ( actually I kinda hate her dumb as a brick character in this show) I just can not see myself supporting a show that is so lacking in casting POC’s as well as offing their female cast.
No CBS NO!
I think that Vangess' promotion did affect things with AJ Cook and Paget Brewsters dismissals, obviously through no obvious fault of her own though but why promote her when the spin off character Gina Lasalle was supposed to be ac omputer nerd as she was in The Fight ep?
Anonymous, what does POC stand for?
Not only that Anonoymous, but they upgraded Gina LaSalle's character from a rookie agent like Seaver is in CM, to a Supervisory Special Agent (SSA).
Great, so CM gets stuck with the ridiculous and implausible character, ARGH!
Lysa,
I believe POC stands for proof of concept but I'm not sure.
And yeah, I agree. I'm getting less and less fond of garcia as it is with her overdosing on the episodes but I think even Vangness feels that she inadvertantly contributed to AJ Cook's firing since she's so vocal and guilt ridden about AJ and everything else. I love AJ. And she is sexier than Rachel Nichols because AJ has more class and is a much cooler person and much more talented and versatile actress!
If she doesnt come back on CM then i hope to see her on a new crime show or her own show. SHe can lead and she makes a badass FBI agent too.
Thank GOD for Emily prentiss/ Paget Brewster!
Thanks Anonymous! I'll leave the who is sexiest commentary to the guys :-) But I will say that AJ Cook is beautiful and absolutely did not deserve the treatment that she got from the network. It is evident by the feel of the show season six that there is something lacking, missing, from the show since the JJ character was removed.
The decisions that have been made with respect to the show are inexplicable to me; not one of these decisions has been good, not one. Firing excellent writers, firing AJ Cook, pushing Paget out of the door, and adding on the most ridiculous and insulting character addition ever are things that I just don't understand. If they want to kill the show, they should just do it all at once instead of this slow drawn out painful death. I'm not hoping that the show dies but if they continue making these types of decisions I don't see how that's not going to happen.
Like others, I am hoping that Simon's departure as show runner will be something that will eventually be positive. This is an opportunity for CM to get its house in order. Season 7 could be one that starts off with strong writing and strong character representation. Of course, that will necessitate that TG and SM return for season 7, this is something that CBS can guarantee by giving these actors what they deserve for all the hard work they have put into making the show a success. CBS also has to invest in hiring strong writer's that are familiar or can become familiar with the show to the point where that is reflected in all, if not, the majority of the episodes. Tied into that is making every effort possible to get Paget to return for season 7. If Paget were to decide not to return for season 7, which I hope she doesn't decide that, then they have to take the time between season 6 and season 7 to write in a strong and credible replacement for the Prentiss character. Attempting to carry the Seaver character into season 7 will only undermine any effort to strengthen the show; this is just not an acceptable character for the show, a character that will only serve to continue to undermine the rest of the character's on the show. This will occur because this character's presence on the show is so nonsensical that it will force the other characters to be written out of character so as to attempt to excuse this character's presence on the show.
Please CBS and CM do not do this to CM fans who support this show and care about it succeeding in the future.
Re: M. Ausiello's comment: in the elec/mfg world, POC used to stand for "point of contact" or "percentage of completion" but here, in his usage, I am scratching my head. Could he mean "piece of cake?!" That doesn't sound appropriate, does, it?!
Maybe something - something - "character" since the word casting precedes it. Hmmm...plus it sounds like he is making a negative comment, as tho' their /previous/remaining cast choices were not good ones...we all know that THAT is NOT true - they have all been great until recently. Oh, well, I'm sure that one of my fellow fanatics will figure it out and LMK.
On the lighter side, the top spot here for the day goes to our beloved MGG, looking and sounding so damn cute and so down-to-earth and modest (those last 2 qualities are what I love the most about him, even more than his amazing acting and art-he is just so genuine!What a sweetheart he is!)
Hard to ascertain anymore about the upcoming storyline for Prentiss given his comments but I do believe AJ is returning only for this episode (going away for Prentiss? not her funeral, I hope) but since there are rumors they are leaving the door open for Prentiss to return, I still don't get it because it would have to be something really big and serious for JJ to return to be in the epi, plus what's with the blood splattered on Seaver that someone mentioned? This may have been a photo on someone's Twitter and I don't tweet, so I'm clueless.
But curious. And anxious. Can hardly wait but am apprehensive. And how ironic that they are showing a rerun on March 9th - isn't that MGG's B'day? Without checking, I seem to remember that.
We have alot at stake here, with the opening for a new showrunner, contract negotiations for two of the male leads, poss new writers (hopefully OLD ones returning!) key female agent likely leaving, sharing our only other experienced female agent with the spin-off...damn, is there enough going on or what?
gubegirl, thanks! I have been checking periodically to see if anyone else would offer an insight into POC. The way I read that comment was that the Anonymous person was referring to the casting of the Seaver character. I say that because of this sentence:
"Well goddamn that is infuriating. I guess I have to seek out a new show to view. As much as I adore actress Rachel Nichols as the sexier replacement ( actually I kinda hate her dumb as a brick character in this show) I just can not see myself supporting a show that is so lacking in casting POC’s as well as offing their female cast.
No CBS NO!"
The offing of female characters has got to be JJ and Prentiss, and the way Anonymous blended in the Seaver character when leading into the POC discussion leads me to believe that Anonymous meant Seaver. Unless Anonymous was also referring to Rossi in addition to Seaver, although, I don't think so though.
MGG was absolutely adorable in that video!! How is it that he gets more adorable everytime I see an interview with him? He is just a doll :)
All indications point to them leaving the door open for Paget to return, let's hope she does. Also, let's hope these contract talks with TG and SM go well. At this point, nothing would surprise me concerning CM. If TG and/or SM do not return, I think that will be a personal decision of their's based on the misery that CBS will most likely try to offer them in terms of pay.
Okay, I looked up POC and the only two that I sort of thought applied were "proof of concept" or "petty officer cadet". I think both could apply to Seaver. The show needs to offer proof why they think this insane concept will fly and the other speakes for itself. It'll probably end up being one of the other POC's I looked up, "pile of crap," I'll say no more.
Pat and others: Go to the new blog to see what I'm pretty sure Ausiello means when he refers to
POC's!
LMK what you think!
Pat said...
"Okay, I looked up POC and the only two that I sort of thought applied were "proof of concept" or "petty officer cadet". I think both could apply to Seaver. The show needs to offer proof why they think this insane concept will fly and the other speakes for itself. It'll probably end up being one of the other POC's I looked up, "pile of crap," I'll say no more."
LOL, :) Totally agree!
I actually copy and and pasted that entire comment including the dumb as brick line.
It was funny...
Anonymous, I didn't see the cut and paste in the other thread??
LOL, Pat, love your last acronym and I personally feel like it is the best fit, :)
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