Criminal Minds spoiler thread for "Coda" starring Joe Mantegna, Thomas Gibson, Paget Brewster, Shemar Moore, Matthew Gray Gubler and Kirsten Vangsness.
**Beware! There will be spoilers in the comments :)
*** Thomas Gibson donated two Coda scripts for our ACS auctions: http://shop.ebay.com/bigcmfan1/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=
408 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 400 of 408 Newer› Newest»Michael, the show already came close to the shark when it introduded the Seaver character.
to Michael
I was only trying to say that I don´t care what way they could get rid of her, so she doesn´t come back in season 7. And if Paget decides to come back, Seaver is not needed anymore
Yes, Seaver, of course the autistic boy is probably the unsub. I'm sure he shot his father, tied up his mother and managed drag them away unseen in his wagaon and arrive in time for school. Sheesh!
I never saw any usefulness to this character before, and still don't, but her rudeness to Reid was what did it for me. Now I officially really dislike her.
I loved the episode.
To everyone thinking, and there are only a few pople, that its ok for Seaver to be rude to Ried because JJ and other team members have been rude to him since the beginning of the show...
FIrst off, not okay for Seaver for every reason already listed. Second, JJ and the team are always nice about it, or mostly and please remember that the team of Hotch, Reid, Morgon, JJ and Garcia was already a team for at least a year before the show actually started.
Get rid of Seaver
Sarah said...
"Suspect behavior went down by like 3 million viewers. If this trend continues, well.....
CBS and CM, are you done with your "creatively refreshing" project now? Can we get our show back?
Hotch
Prentiss
Garcia
Reid
JJ
Rossi
Morgan
Okay, I can understand that AJ and Paget may be a long shot because they may not want to return to the show, but please try. If they do not want to return, then go back to the character creation board, please.
You had a winning formula, a winning team. What the hell were you thinking????
While Seaver did not annoy me as much this week, minus the plane scene and some dumb conclusions, I don't want to have to watch this show cringing each time she appears on the screen at the horror or stupidity of what she may say. Come on, she is just not credible. Period. And to the acting, yes, the acting is not natural, there is no flow like gubegirl mentioned the others always had.
Please CBS and CM, please give us our show back!!!!!!!!!!"
God, yes Sarah!!! CBS and CM, can we have our show back, please!!!!
I loved this episode.
The case was really interesting and all the characters had good scenes and great moments (even if I’m still unsure about the Prentiss story with Ian Doyle).
The kid who played Sammy did a wonderful job. His acting was superb and heartfelt.
The music was also fantastic.
I loved the little scenes where we saw the team members in their off duty time.
I was glad they showed Reid with a book about migraines (and wearing sunglasses), which means they are not just dropping that storyline.
I also loved the scene with Hotch and the drawing ‘that’s a dog’. Seeing him with Jack was really sweet.
I loved all the geeky / nerdy references, and yes for Reid being a fan of ‘Doctor Who’ !
Yes also for Reid learning to play the piano (although, Reid, you might want to buy a real piano in the future - that is, if your finances allow you to and if you have the required space in your apartment, of course).
Loved the Rossi scenes, they were great. I wonder if the aunt saying to Rossi that he seems to be talking from experience (in regards to children with autism) is a clue to Rossi’s secret.
Him spending time with Seaver didn’t bother me. And she acted more like a cadet this time.
That doesn’t make me like her, but it’s better than her looking like a profiler.
On a side not, I really couldn’t call this episode a ‘Reid centric’ episode. For me it felt like an ensemble.
So the ratings for the spin-off have gone down--I knew that people are saying "This is crap." I think the high ratings for the pilot were really because people were either curious or seduced by the advertising. Now that the product is actually seen, it's gonna be a bomb.
Seaver- "They don't teach you this at the Academy," no Seaver they don't, that is why people get a little something called, umm, experience that proves that they have what it takes to be part of an elite and specialized team. Not "on the job" training where you are trying to track down unsubs and profile things that require that experience to ascertain. You know, like every other character on the show with the exception of Reid who is a genius to the 100th power.
I'm another one that will add, CBS and CM, can we have our show back, please!!!!
Despite this, I enjoyed the episode, especially the scenes with Reid and the boy. Those scenes were indeed priceless :)
Love this new character and see where she goes. Can't wait to see her being considered more like a friend for the team. io can see it happening soon. And the scene with Rossi and Seaver playing video game was great.
Wow why do woman hate this character so much did she steal your boyfriend or something
Seaver is great.. that was an incredibly sexist thing to say.
For your information, woman make up the majority of the people who watch this show. At any rate, that is of no consequence because the fact is that this character is weak in all shapes and forms (as has already been more than clearly stated on this blog and everywhere the show is discussed) and no amount of video game playing or new melodramatic story lines are going to change that.
Yes Nancy, whether it is women, men, or kids who are making statements about how ridiculous the Seaver character is, the fact is the character is ridiculous!
Also, because you wrongly believe that it is only women that are making these statements about Seaver, is it somehow less valid than if you perceived it were more men casting these opinions.
Give me a break! If you hadn't noticed, it is 2011!
I'm okay with people not liking her, just the HATRED for her character seems SO intense that people seem to user her as a punching bag and lash out at her over what's happening with AJ. I knew this was going to happen too as soon as they announced a new actress.
Every episode that Seaver is in she does something that makes me dislike her, at least one thing. Last week it was her explaining why a gril would cut herself very worngfully, and this week it was multipe scnes. The plane, the pseudo profiling, and yes, the rossi daddy thing bugs me.
I wrongly don't believe that at all you just have to take a look at the people here. Almost only woman and the disgusting petition to get rachel nichols fired because they don't like seaver is almost only if not all woman names.
Billy,
at this time, the AJ thing no longer factors in for the most part of people's dislike for Seaver. Seaver herself gives us a hundered and one reasons not to like her. Read all the comments. Few have mentioned AJ/JJ.
But I am a hardcore AJ fan. She was the reason I started to watch the show and I do want her back.
Still got nothing to do with Seaver, especially if she was a character already in the making.
Billy, I am not blaming her for AJ. AJ was a network dumb move. It is the character that insults my intelligence and I don't appreciate that. If they had written in a character like Prentiss, cool, but this character defies logic. And really, it is insulting me that people continue to use the "AJ card" to deflect how poor this character is, it is a poor character and that is something I would say if AJ were there and if Prentiss were staying.
Ok, so let's say that the majority of the commenters are women, so? Does that invalidate the reasons the have given as to why they think this character is ridiculous for CM? Are you seriously suggesting that women can't make an informed decision about a female character apart from some "jealously? Are you seriously saying that?
Seaver is great,
please explain how. Seaver is a caricature. She came off as a strong woman in her first couple of scenes when her first ep aired, but then she turned into a hysterical crybaby who cant keep a poler face. She wrongfully explained cutting like a few others have mentioned, she should not be profiling, she insulted Ried, her presence dumbs down other characters and the quality of the show, she has no chemistry with the rest of the team, there is always a pity angle with her, etc, etc.
Every episode gives new light to why Seaver does not belong there!
ANd I am a big fan of strong women. I loved JJ and Emily who are both strong women, I am a huge Buffy fan,etc. Strong women are great role models. Seaver is a weak, terribly written character played by a pretty but mediocre actress.
PLEASE COMMENT ON HOTCH HERE: http://criminalmindsfanatic.blogspot.com/2011/02/criminal-minds-what-do-you-think-of.html
Guys, it is not worth having a debate, if you will, with someone that has such a cave man mentality that thinks that women are not capable of generating opinions apart from some petty perceived jealousy. Obviously, this individual does not appreciate strong reasoned women, which is why they probably like the Seaver character, so I really wouldn't waste my time going there. They are going to carry those 1950's type thinking patterns no matter what the calendar reflects is today's date.
well i took a look at that petition and it seems like "Sever is Great" is on to something here. It really is only woman it is quite weird
Well i am a woman and i haven't really formed an opinion on her yet i think it is to early but i don't hate her i think she actually could become a great asset to the team in the future.
Camilla,
The point is that doesn't matter. So, because you are a woman you can't make a decision without some type of rivarlry going on? Ridiculous!
Plus, to Nancy's point, most of the people who currently watch the show are women, so it is only logical that an extension of the comments about the show and characters will be women. Anyway, Evelyn is right, people who have that mentality, both men and woman, will most likely never change.
Loved this episode.....Joe M. was superb. Liked the kid and Reid making a connection. Prentiss arc is interesting. The story about the unsub was not typical but very real, loved it and really felt bad about the circumstances that drove the man to total desperation. Loved loved loved the little scenes between Hotch and Jack. We saw more of Hotch than in recent episodes!!!!!
Great Job Rick Dunkle...finally someone who understand the characters and makes me remember why I love CM.
Whatever with the cave men....I am going to Sarah's point, CBS and CM, can we have our show back!!!!
Regarding this episode, I must admit that I didn't quite connect with the story behind the unsub, it seemed a bit contrived to me. But perhaps upon second viewing, that will change. I do love that Rossi and Reid were paired for this investigation. Those are two great characters ans well as two great actors and I am glad they both got to shine together for this episode. One character that hasn't shined in a long while is Hotch. I'd like to see the team's Unit Chief back at the helm. I don't know what this scaling back of the Hotch character means, I hope it is simply scheduling conflicts, but still, I'd hope those kind of glitches could be taken care of prior to shooting the episode. Oh, also loved that Reid seems like he picked up a new hobby :) Prentiss, I wish she would have shot Doyle, but the glock line was sufficient for now :)
Don't have much to say about Seaver that has't already been said, but what I would like to say again is that sort of goes along that characters line is, CBS and CM, can we have our show back!!!!!
Overall, maybe tied with the best episode of the season. Would have been my favorite except Seaver had far too many lines (probably more than Hotch), and why the heck is she profiling already, and her caught in the headlights deer look is annoying......and where does she get off saying that to Reid on the plane. She has not known him long enough to be that rude and it wasn't a joke.
But....I loved the Reid/Sammy moments, wish there had been more. The boy who played Sammy was superb. Reid was amazing with him. But, what happened to the Rossi line that was shown in the preview about two of the best minds?? Rossi had some good compassionate scenes too.
And Prentiss.....will miss her so much. The storyline is good and her acting as always is great. Just hurts that she only has 3 more episodes.
So CBS, what's new? Yeah, I heard about your shiny new project taking a nose dive this week. What shiny new project? Remember, the one that you tore CM to bits over; yes, CMSB, that project. Kind of a bummer that close to 3 million people decided not to come back this week to watch your shining glory. Guess, you'll have to wait and see if those people can be regained, or if more will defect.
In the meantime, a fellow CM fan on this here blog posed a couple of great question that I too would like to kindly ask you myself. CBS and CM, are you done with your "creatively refreshing" project now? Can we get our show back? It would be dandy if you could reply to this in deed not lip service. How you ask? Will again I will point to my fellow CM fan Sarah who suggested that you restore the show to what it was before you decided to commence this "creatively refreshing" project that has done nothing but sideline a show that didn't deserve to be sidelined.
Getting back to the how, the how starts by restoring to the show what should have never been removed. I think you know where I am going with this don't you. The, for you, dreaded character that you thought wasn't essential, that by now people would have forgotten, yes, that character, JJ. It should be all but clear to you CBS that people have not forgotten about the JJ character, and if anything, these ridiculous and short-sighted changes you have made to the show serve only to highlight people's angst over AJ Cook's dismissal, and fervor to get her back.
Second, Paget Brewster, yes, Paget Brewster. An amazing and talented actress who has poured her heart and soul into playing Emily Prentiss a character that you too believed would be no big deal to discard, but by now, must realize how foolish and short-sighted that sentiment truly was. Speaking of foolish and short-sighted, the new little jem you thought you'd insert into the show, the one that CM fans know shouldn't be there, not because of AJ Cook and Paget Brewster, but because this character is sub par at best, ridiculous at most.
Well, CBS, looks like you have some decisions to make prior to season 7. Do you employ every effort you can to restoring the team dynamic that has made this show turned this show into the roaring success that it is (Hotch, Prentiss, Rossi, Reid, Morgan, JJ, Garcia), or do you continue down the little brick road of denial and eventual sabotage? What was that? Yes, there is a concern that the actresses that you discarded like yesterday's news will reject your offer to come back. What to do? Well, just like you directed the creative powers that be at CM to scoot and insert a new character, go back to them and tell them to create a new character for the show. Hint, someone similiar to Emily Prentiss in strength and credibility will go a long way with the viewing audience, not a rookie that has to be constantly bended and twisted to try and make fit into a spot that no amount of twisting and bending will make fit.
Well, that is all for now CBS. We should do lunch some time, my treat.
"Sandy said...
Seaver- "They don't teach you this at the Academy," no Seaver they don't, that is why people get a little something called, umm, experience that proves that they have what it takes to be part of an elite and specialized team. Not "on the job" training where you are trying to track down unsubs and profile things that require that experience to ascertain. You know, like every other character on the show with the exception of Reid who is a genius to the 100th power."
No kidding!!!!! I couldn't agree with you more. As soon as I heard that line, I was totally thinking the same thing!! And that plane scene, don't even get me started. Yeah a 10-year old is gonna shoot his dad, and kidnap both of his parents...oh.my.god.
I'm with you, Evelyn, there are some comments on here that are just not worth addressing; I say just ignore them and if we don't pay any attention, They just do not get it.
There is no getting around it: Seaver behaving like that with Reid on the plane was WAY premature: she does not know him well enuf and he is SO superior to her, totally apart from his geekiness and infamous ramblings, she is is no position to speak that way. In a word, it demonstrates DISRESPECT and does not make serious fans feel any better about accepting her as a member of the BAU. If the writers felt that this was just another "Reid-rant and co-worker becoming abit impatient", they were off-base. It has had a negative effect.
Which brings to me to something else: Aside from this and her participating in presenting the profile (NOT!), Rick Dunkle did an excellent job and I ask you CMFANATICS once again,
DO YOU THINK THEY ARE LISTENING TO US? this epi was more like the old CM than any other this season, I think, and I want to know if the writers are at all influenced by all that they may have read here?
I would love to think so, because it would give me hope for the future of CM. On a side note, I hope YOU are reading this blog, PAGET BREWSTER, because you are AMAZING, we LOVE you and we do not want to see you leave! Please. Stay.
Patricia...your comments were just perfect! If you don't mind, I want to spread your words on Brazilian community.
Creatively speaking: I want JJ back and I want Prentiss to stay!!
Remove Seaver because a rookie can't never be at the BAU.
End of story!
Meant to say, "maybe if we don't pay any attention, they will go away and find another place to post their craziness." They just don't get it.
In my endeavor to edit for typos, I sometimes delete more than I intend to:)
gubegirl said....
"There is no getting around it: Seaver behaving like that with Reid on the plane was WAY premature: she does not know him well enuf and he is SO superior to her, totally apart from his geekiness and infamous ramblings, she is is no position to speak that way. In a word, it demonstrates DISRESPECT and does not make serious fans feel any better about accepting her as a member of the BAU. If the writers felt that this was just another "Reid-rant and co-worker becoming abit impatient", they were off-base. It has had a negative effect."
Not even that gubegirl, it has all but sealed her fate with the many fans I have seen write about her in this epsiode here and elsewhere (myself included). Many of them could not tolerate her character before this episode, but now, they are just done with her, to the point that some are saying that they'd prefer Jordan Todd to come back as a character than have Seaver remain as a character. No disrespect to the Todd character, but that character was certainly not a fit, something that I think the writers purposefully wrote that way since she was there only while AJ was out on maternity leave. The fans were certainly not crazy about her and made no bones about saying so, although, since that was temporary, I think people were content to know that she would not be there for long and that all would soon be restored on the show.
As to your question, I am hopeful that they are listening to us. I hope they are becasue we love this show and say things, sometimes forcefully, because we do love this show and want it to soar like we know that it can. There is no hate or disrespect, just a true concern and desire to see our show, our team, be the best that we know it can be, and when there is something amiss at CM, we are naturally going to come in and speak about that.
I'd also like to say, Paget please stay, we truly do think you are amazing and we love you! CM would definitely not be the same without you!
anonymous and other who think the question when seaver asked if the boy could have killed him.
I got news for you an autistic person can very well kill his parents. An autistic person does not feel emotions like normal people do so to think he could have done it isn't really to far of at all.
thought you should know that
Tom, a 10 year old autistic boy who would have had to have the strength and the wherewithal to committ a crime where not only he killed, but at some point, hide the body, esssentially kidnap them (his parents), and make it to school on time... Yeah.. OKAY...
Yes, they can be violent, but umm, yeah, OKAY
Seaver playing videogames with rossi. was really cute. She is starting to play more and more of on them in a very positive way.
The dynamic between her and the team will be great in future epiodes.
Just like Prentiss and rossi became a close friend to the team, it also took some time before the fans took them in, Especially rossi. I think Seaver is gonna be great with the team.
Really enjoyed this episode! I melted when Hotch smiled at Jack!Too cute! It was also great when Hotch was like it's a dog and morgan was just like "huh?". The kid playing Sammy was fantastic, wonderful acting.
I personally laughed at the "I'm sorry" "For what?" "Asking" part :D
Patricia what a great comment. It has all a true criminal minds fan would say
I´ve always had an impression, that CBS want sabotage CM to only keep the spinoff. And why would they want to adapt the original to the spinoff? Shouldn´t it be vice versa?
I can´t even imagine if they are able to somehow fix the mess they have done to CM cast?
And Tom, I would respond to your comment, but it s just so far out of field, that I will just leave it there. Dori, you did a great job.
Also, to Tomas and Estele's points, pleae add me to their comments. I will not be emotionally manipulated to like a character. CM the reverse is taking place, and like Stacy said, that characters fate has been sealed for me. End of story.
Patricia, love your wit and I concur! Would love to hear if CBS takes you up on that lunch date, :) But more important, I hope they take what you have written to heart and do something to restore our show back. I think they can, it is a question of will they or wont't they.
This episode was outside of the CM box as far as unsubs go, but I think that was okay. Most definitely enjoyed Reid, and was glad to see Rossi take center stage again on his own and with Reid, not as some fodder for Seaver. I also wonder if Rossi's secret has to do with the fact that he has a child.
The most memorable mention of the night, most definitely the glock :) Paget Brewster, we indeed love you and think you are an amazing actress and would truly be honored if you returned for season 7.
Just a friendly reminder to all of the people who praise the writer for an "excellent" episode, yet complain about the lines one CHARACTER (yes, not an actual person) recited: unless things in Hollywood have changed, ACTORS still give voice to the words the WRITER gives them.
If you don't like a character because they don't seem to fit, fine. But use a little thought before throwing out any reason to strongly dislike.
Unusual episode last night but a good one. Seaver is starting to feel more like home now with the videogaming he he :-)
Anonymous, I have to say I agree with the assessment that writers give voicce to a character, that is certainly true, but I think people can feel something is excellent without necessarily liking one aspect of that creation. Plus, the delivery of the actor makes a big difference.
Patricia, I forgot earlier to write that I love your post! Hope it makes a difference!
For anyone interested, the piano piece is NOT "Brother" by Road Hawgs. Or anything else for that matter.
It's an original composition from the production team.
http://www.cbs.com/primetime/criminal_minds/community/blogs/blog.php?key=0
Rick Dunkle "knows" CM better than any of the current writers.
Suprisingly I genuinely loved the episode while I was watching it, and reflecting back, I love it even more.
Reid and Rossi with that adorable little boy was just amazing. Got to see a vulnerable side of Rossi, and I loved the allision to his daugher Mia.
In other cuteness, Hotch and Jack just always make me happy. We need more of them.
I barely even noticed Seaver tonight, though her rude remark to Reid kinda rubbed me the wrong way.
"I have a glock pointed at your crotch..." THIS my friends, is why Emily Prentiss is a total badass. Paget Brewster delivers those smartass one liners so well, I'm gonna miss that a lot.
I love that Emily is finally getting some screen time, but I hate that the only reason she is is because she's leaving.
UGH! We finally get a good episode but the whole dynamic is gonna change soon because of Emily's fate. I would love to see PB in some comedy, and I hope whatever decision she makes is the best one for her, but damn the show sure is gonna change.
Thanks HasBeen, going to look that up!
I really did enjoy most of this episode. It was a good blend of story and character interaction, but I wasn’t too surprised, since I enjoy most of Rick Dunkle’s episodes. I liked the glimpses of the character’s personal lives at the beginning and end of the show, though I wish it was longer instead of just a few seconds per character. I was hoping for some dialogue or more action showing what the BAU members do in their personal time. It’s hard to know if the BAU would have ever gotten involved in this case. They play a big role in child abductions, which this obviously wasn’t the case this time, but I’ll accept the idea that their expertise in psychology and behavior warranted a call. It certainly wouldn’t be the first time that happened (e.g. Broken Mirror, Derailed, etc).
Not surprisingly, my favorite scenes were those with Reid. I felt this episode really highlighted his sensitivity and compassion in general and dealing with victims in particular, particularly Sammy. He has a very gentle and tender nature that is often not used on the team, particularly when Morgan is in his more brute force mood. I know it was never addressed and probably never will be on this show, but I still feel Reid is a high-functioning Aspie and he could relate on some level to Sammy. I really loved the whole piano scene, and it doesn’t surprise me that Reid would have hidden musical tendencies, because like he said, music is essentially math, and math prodigies often are very musical. It was a good show of Reid’s genius mind in action as he deduced what Sammy’s code was and discovered who was the unsub. That is the special genius I love who can contribute so much to a case. It was also nice to see some continuity with Reid’s headaches and see him happily taking up a new hobby at the end when he was carting his keyboard home for some practice.
I agree that Rossi definitely has some background and experience with autism. You could see it in his face when Lizzie asked him how he knew so much about it. Rossi is always compassionate when dealing with victims, but he was particularly so in this case. He seemed to want to answer her, but chose not to. However, he clearly has more than simple book knowledge on this subject, and I bet someone he loves or loved was/is autistic. It will be interesting to see if that idea is ever revisited in future episodes.
Overall there was some good profiling the different scenes and the unsubs. I liked Morgan and Hotch profiling the house and Emily and Ashley profiling the music store. And Penelope throwing in her technological genius to narrow down the unsub even further. I thought the profile presentation to the police was a throwback (in a good way) to earlier seasons when the audience would see the unsub’s motivation reflected in the profile given. It cuts down on too much unsub time, but gets the point across as to motivations and behavioral clues.
(cont)...
(Cont...)
There were some Ashley moments that definitely made me grit my teeth. Did she seriously suggest that a seriously autistic 10 year old boy was the unsub? Really? And again, why was she presenting the profile when she is not a special agent? Yes, I realize that isn’t a new complaint, but I will keep making it, as long as she is a cadet, because that is not her job to do that. Yes Ashley, there is a reason Emily mentioned that experience can be a huge benefit to this job at the BAU; because you don’t have any. And please buck up and stop looking like you are going to cry at every aspect of this job. The BAU deals with some of the most horrific cases around, and you can’t tear up at every one of them. While Ashley’s kiss off to Reid over Dr. Who wasn’t as mean as I feared, it did made me feel bad for the poor boy. He’s so sweet and earnest about his passions, but the people around him just don’t want to hear it. For all I know they indulge him at times off screen, but you never see it. You just see him getting blown off and ignored. Getting shut down like that over and over again has got to do a number on his self-worth as a person, if not as a profiler. That’s why he’s always alone when he’s not at work. I really don’t think he’s connected with his coworkers on a strong level as friends. Along that same line, I hope Rossi doesn’t get too paternal with Ashley. Right now he’s basically her boss, not her friend. Granted I have very strong boundaries when it comes to this subject, but watching them play video games at the end kind of made me uneasy. It’s one thing to mentor someone professionally, like Gideon did with Reid, but don’t cross the line and act like a surrogate father.
Then we come to the Emily story. I will admit as this story progresses, it is starting to feel way too unrealistic for me. It reminds me of one of those Jason Bourne movies, which in and of itself is not a bad thing; it just feels out of place in the Criminal Minds universe. Half the time I felt I was watching a sensitive crime drama, and the other half I felt like I was watching a spy thriller. Just who the hell is Ian Doyle and how is he commanding the loyalty of all these minions to conduct surveillance on the BAU? He must have some stash of money somewhere. What is his true endgame? It can’t be simply to kill Emily, because he could have easily done that in the last scene. He must want to psychologically torture her by threatening all her friends and her emotional well being first, sort of like Angel did to Buffy in season 2. Then he’ll come for her to kill her. Spoilers for “Valhalla” seem to bear this out as Ian Doyle finally seems to start targeting the BAU. I hope more light is shed on Emily’s background, as this operation was conducted seven years ago. Did she work with Interpol as a FBI liaison, because there is no way she could have worked her way up the ranks that quickly if she went from Interpol to the FBI. There were only two plus years after this operation until she joined the BAU, so she had to have been part of the FBI at the time.
Overall I felt this was an enjoyable episode, and one I will watch again. I hope Rick Dunkle writes more episodes as he can balance the unsub story with the characters on the team well.
on the seaver dissing reid a little because of his weirdness with Dr who. People have been here all of one second and said MUCH worse to Reid. And I recall Rossi and Prentiss having their own reactions to Reid. I am convinced that people are nitpicking now. I really am. Reading the comments, it seems like people WANT to be mad. They are LOOKING to be mad. I'm very eager to see what is wrong with the show next because I swear it gets weirder every week.
It is an overall problem with Seaver, Lisa, you can say people are nitpicking as you claim, but it was something that many people picked up on, not just the ones here. While you may not have thought it was as bad as others, the point is, it is just another thing that does not cast a good light for this broken character. The main thing is that she just doesn't belong on the team and that being the consensus whatever she does will be looked at more closely because people are still at a loss as to why she is there when she shouldn't be there.
Your darn tootin I am going to put that farce of a character under a mircoscope because no way, no how should she be on the team. There is no way! If CBS and CM want to convince me of that, just to let you know there is not a fat chance of that happening, then yeah, I am going to examine everything that comes from that character.
As for the other team members shutting down Reid, I don't like it when they do it either in a mean way. There can be a nice, even sort of funny way to cut off Reid, and then there are just rude and mean ways to do it. I've certainly seen most of the other team members treat Reid in the same abrupt fashion, and after a while, it just seems like the writers are using Reid as a comic relief punching bag. Because for some reason it's funny to treat the weird, sweet genius like he's some sort of freak that nobody wants to listen to. But you can bet he'd probably listen to them ramble about whatever they wanted to talk about.
My issue though LaShwana is that the other team members have that rapport with Reid, not saying they should cut him off, but they have that rapport. Seaver doesn't and I think it is just another way for them to try and force feed this charater as a legitimate team member to the viewing audience, when she is anything but legitimate.
Yeah, Linda, I think that was the heart of it, the fact that she hadn't been there long enough to establish that type of rapport to where that would be acceptable, so, it just came off as rude and annoyning. Also, it is sort of like what it is with that character, doing things in a fashion to where they are desperately trying to get people to connect with the character when that should be just a normal thing. However, the big negative is that she is not equipped for the team so that takes away from the respect portion, respecting that someone deserves to be on the team.
This was a very different episode for CM. The unsub wasn't really an 'unsub' as he was acting out of desperation - he didn't intend to kill or hurt anyone. He wanted his family back. This was nothing he'd done before, he wasn't a serial killer - he wasn't a killer. Charlie's death was an accident, he didn't intend to kill him. This whole episode had a very different feel to it.
I like the personal touches in the episode and the final team scenes together: Hotch kissing his son goodnight, Morgan and Garcia watching a movie together, Reid riding the metro and getting a keyboard and 'game night' with Rossi and Seaver. It was really cool to see them all interact.
I wouldn't want to see any team member killed off. As I've mentioned in another thread, they aren't 'shoving' Seaver down our throats like they did when Rossi came onboard, so I don't mind her. Doesn't make me miss JJ less, but Seaver is not a bad character. She didn't take JJ's job - Garcia is doing it and she's got a role all her own.
I like Prentiss' story arc - it has a lot of 'thrill' and excitement to it, even more than The Reaper storyline. I look forward to next week to see where it goes....
Curious, how did they shove Rossi down our throats? If anybody is being shoved, it is her. Not saying she is or isn't, but Rossi certianly wasn't. Also, again, to compare Rossi and Seaver is ridiculous because at this point, Rossi could be running the team, Seaver hasn't even graduated from the Academy, and even when she does, she will still be severely unqualified for a team of that nature.
When Emily, Morgan, and JJ tease Reid it's actually good humour fun
when Seaver does it, it seems more like an insult.
Just no.
Patricia, love your post!!!!!!!!! Please God, let someone over at CBS and CM read and take action on what Patricia wrote.
ragini,
Because he was supposed to replace Gideon and he was the lead. rossi became the lead with hotch
Excuse me if i like Seaver. And doesn't think she is a bad character
Hotchfan, I am not taking away the fact that you like the character, it is just that I didn't get that sense with Rossi at all. If anything, Hotch knocked him down a couple of notches on the first case when he tried to do stuff solo. Shortly thereafter, Rossi got the hang for the team working together situation, but he always had the qualifications to be there.
I guess I should clarify what I mean by "shoving a character down ones throats," to me it is when then is a major defect in the character that the writers, executive producer, show runner, etc. know exist, but otherwise try to camaflouge by bulidng up other things to distract the viewer from that defect. In Seaver's case, that would be the fact that she is severely unqualified to be part of the team. So, they, in essence, "shove" other things about her to the auidence to try and mask that. For example, a sympathy ploy because of her childhood, mentoring by Prentiss, and now what appears to mentoring by Rossi. Also, in the last episode, it was hinted that maybe she had an issue with cutting and/or an eating disorder, another sympathy ploy. There is nothing about this character that stands apart from these ploys, unlike Rossi, who came in with a decade or more of experience but had to learn how to work as part of a team, not solo. Rossi stood on his own merits.
Seaver is a rookie. Rookies should be seen and not heard. That's just how the law enforcement world works. They sure as hell don't make rude comments to veteran agents/officers.
All the others give Reid in a joking, affectionate way. Seaver doesn't know Reid well enough to do that yet.
The only thing I loved, loved, and loved some more about this episode was when Garcia was waiting at the elevator when the team stepped off and when Morgan walked up to her, he put his arm around her and they walked off together smiling. Then when she comes to his office with a bowl popcorn and a movie. I have rewatched that scene so many times. I just loved it!! is that a picture of Garcia on Morgan's desk? Please tell me yes.
BAU1919, absolutely! This is something that also leads this character to rub people the wrong way, this rude, arrogant aspect that shouldn't be there. No matter how quirky Reid may be, he is a superior officer in a situation where she is a cadet. Senior officers and do this to one another if they wish, and like you said, in the team it has, at least to me, not been done in a mind-spirited way. She is a cadet and as such should be seen and not heard. But the fact is someone of such a lpw rank should not be in the capacity that she is on the team. This invalidates them all. That is why she should not be part of the team, she just shouldn't, it was not a good character to add to the show. I hope they rectify this going into season 7.
Seaver is a very weird character I dont know if its because of the way she is written or by the way shes being portrayed by the actress but sometimes she even looks mad or angry, arrogant? Dont know...
Also, is CBS probably worrying?, maybe: they want Paget back, why trying so hard to make us like Seaver, using Rossi f.e?
Deb i think they want 2 female agents in the field. So in season 7 we will have Prentiss(because i don't think she will leave) and Seaver. Along with the men Reid,Hotch,Morgan and Rossi
Seaver talk aside, I am so curious about how Prentiss will be written off. I'm happy next week seems to be fully dedicated to this storyline because quite frankly it's distracting me from the other cases.
Is there really a chance that Paget will come back?
Or is CBS just telling us they are gonna 'leave the door open' and shock everyone by killing Prentiss?
I HATE that everything is so up in the air!!
Gubegirl, if they are listening I hope they listen to Patricia.
Walter, I pray that is not true. Hotch, Prentiss, Reid, Morgan and Rossi are more than enough, of course with the aid of tech goddess Penelope Garcia.
If anything, they really should bring back JJ or at least someone to fill her role as it is distracting to have Garcia and Hotch present the cases. That person, being that she (I'm assuming that it would be a she) would be experienced enough to go out on the field with them. It has always been that group of agents, Hotch, Rossi, Prentiss, Reid, and Rossi out doing the profilng, so they don't need another person profiling should Prentiss return for season 7, especially one who is in no position to profile. This season, Sense Memory showed how perfectly the core team worked.
I mentioned Rossi twice, meant to say Morgan.
BAU1919,
I am both looking forward to but at the same time dreading the closing of this arc. I don't want Paget to leave, at all! She is key to the team and the show just wouldn't be the same without her. Additionally, I think things can be restored back to normal on the show if it os clear that she is coming back. As I said in my other post, they only need Hotch, Prentiss, Rossi, Reid, and Morgan to be the profilers, as they have always been, then they could get a media liaison which they really need. Would love it if that could be JJ, but if not, somebody else. I am growing weary of Garcia presenting cases. Love Garcia, but that role is just not a fit for our tech goddess. Also, it seems like Hotch has to pick up some the media liasion's duties, that should not be. He is the Unit Chief and should concentrate on being that.
I don't know how aggressively they are trying to get her back, if they are smart, they would be very aggressive in doing so. The thing is if she doesn't come back, we'll most likely know that before they start filming, so that will answer what type of ending it will be. That is what I think anyway.
Oh I totally agree that Ashley was out of line with Reid. Her comment just wasn't as mean as I feared based on the comments on this forum. I work in a very hierarchical organization, so am conditioned to respect the rank of those that outrank me, even if I don't like or respect the person. Ashley is a CADET, not a special agent, let alone a SSA, and she really needs to be more respectful when talking to them. She is not equal to them. I bet she would never consider talking that way to the other SSAs, so Reid merits the same respect, even if if he is a bit quirky. Her behavior is the equivalent of a military cadet disrespecting a field grade officer. Trust me, that sort of a** clownery is not tolerated.
Just saw the press release for the Lauren episode on the blog. It is a damn shame that AJ Cook is listed as a guest star; she should be a series regular! Never should have been kicked out of that status!
CBS and CM, read Sarah and Patricia's comments. We want our show back!!!!
Saeson 7: Hotch, Prentiss, Morgan, Garcia, Reid, and JJ!!
We want our show and team back CBS an CM!!
Season 7: Hotch, Prentiss, Morgan, Garcia, Rossi, Reid, and JJ
Left out Rossi, did not meant to leave out Rossi, definitely not.
We want our show back CBS and CM!!
On further reflection, yeah, okay, Reid was just talking about sci fi and not business. If it was case-related and she said something like that, it would be really bad. But we are talking about a woman who disobeyed a simple direct order from Hotch, El Jefe, on her first time out.
Season 7: Hotch, Prentiss, Morgan, Garcia, Rossi, Reid, and JJ
YES!!!!
CBS and CM give us back our show and our team!!!!
LaShawna, I still think she was rude and she can be very annoyning, but yeah, what can you expect from someone who couldn't even follow orders from El Jefe, I like that, El Jefe.
Yes, no more games and "creatively refreshing." We want our show back CBS and CM!!
Season 7: Hotch, Prentiss, Morgan, Garcia, Rossi, Reid, and JJ
Nice episode.
And I have to admit Seaver doesn't look that displaced she did in the episodes before.
She is going "along" with the team and gets mentored by Prentiss. Seems quite ok for me.
Just to say this, I'm not that big a Seaver-fan and I see the Mary-Sue-thing in her character - but I really loved the scene in the plane, when she stops Reid in his flood of words. Everyone else would have done that, just state that this was too much. And the hidden smirks from the rest of the team. At this moment everyone seemed to be right "in character" :)
I'm with the rest who say, CBS and CM, give us our show back!!!
It is ridiculous that AJ Cook is going to be a guest star on a show she helped your network make into a success. Listen to the fans CBS and CM, please and just give us our show back!!!!
Season 7: Hotch, Prentiss, Morgan, Garcia, Rossi, Reid, and JJ
Before I finish reading the comments here and go off to bed, I too want to say that it is high time that CBS restore what it should have never taken from CM. It is indeed a crying shame that AJ Cook who never should have been fired is going to be a guest star. I love that she will be back for teh Lauren episode, but she should be coming back as a series regular, not a guest star. CBS, you must restore and not continue to take away and place fool's gold in the gaps that you leave.
So, I too will say,
Season 7: Hotch, Garcia, Prentiss, Reid, Morgan, Rossi and JJ
Do everything on your power to get Paget back CBS. If you do not, you will regret it because she is a wonderful actress and has proven that she is a hard worker willing to put a 100% into her job. She is part of what helped make this show a success.
Loved the plane scene with Reid and Seaver. And the smirk she gave Morgan and the others after walking away from Reid. She is really coming into her own and her and the team is starting to feel more like a family now
Season 7 Reid, Hotch, Rossi, Morgan,Garcia,Seaver,Prentiss(JJ is of the show) she is not coming back get over it people with your wishful thinking
the show is the team i said for season 7 now
Not sure it will help anything, but I just heard some recent news--CBS has just dropped Two and a Half Men for the rest of the season due to Charlie Sheen's radio rant. Guess his antics went way too far. Talk about poetic justice, as the spin-off is now sinking in the ratings.
Like I said, I don't know if it will help anyone, but karma has definitely caught up at last.
Oh Carol, wishful thinking or not, that is the stuff that CM fans are made of and that's why.....
Season 7: Hotch, Rossi, Garcia, JJ, Prentiss, Reid, Morgan
On the flipside of wishful thinking was CBS and CM's wishful thought that no none would notice or care that AJ and Paget were being pushed out and that we'd accept the ridiculous Seaver character as anythging sort of ridiculous. So to end, I'll say, CBS and CM, we want our show back! Restore what should have never been torn apart.
I hope that Ashley is part of Season 7. Intrigued to see what the writers will make of her professional inexperience together with her personal too-much-experience. She's fitting in nicely and her relationship to Rossi could be interesting. He's a character who watches and keeps his thoughts to himself a lot of the time so it would be good to have someone to unlock him a little.
I know she's unpopular here but I think it's a well-acted role. Look at the little physical details. It's the first thing I noticed with her in the conversation with Rossi back in her first episode, the puppy conversation in the jet. Watch her eyes when he calls her 'kiddo', the miniature response. The acting isn't just on the surface with that one. It's up to the writers now to make something of her in the BAU.
Thought that the Prentiss arc really hotted up in this episode. It has been a bit drab till now and pushed to the edges of the hour (which is a shame if she's really going) but it's starting to sizzle.
Loved the scenes with the autistic lad -- beautifully acted by all concerned. Nicely balanced stuff with Reid, boy, Rossi and aunt. All of that mixed distance and closeness. Good writing and a great opening sequence with the boy at the piano with the violent abduction going on silently behind him.
Garcia's backward time, 'Hello', was gorgeous.
UK viewer
Actually Pamela, the wishful thinking as Carol so "sensistively" brought out is on the part of CBS who wished that people would have forgotten about the JJ character, that her role on the show and what she did for the team would be forgotten and dismissed, but you see it hasn't and it never will as long as CM is on the air. What her absence showed is how very integral her role is to the team because having Garcia, and to some extent, Hotch do them is not working.
While I would love AJ to come back, if she can't or doesn't want to return, to Adrienne's point, I think it is a role that they should nonetheless fill so that Garcia and Hotch could get back to dedicating 100% to what it is they do on the team. As for Paget, yes, CBS should actively seek to get her back for sesaon 7. Surely by now they must realize the impact of Paget on the show. But like AJ, if Paget desires to move on, then CBS via this blog and anywhere they may go must realize how important it is not only to the show, but to the fans, to have strong, credible characters on the show. To Sarah and Patricia's earlier comments, if need be, CM should go back to the character creation board and develop characters that can successfully and credibly integrate into the show because of the validity of the character like Prentiss (experienced SSA) and Rossi (experiend SSA, one of the original BAU members).
And I would be remiss not to address the wishful thought that somehow Seaver is coming into her own, was that the phrase. This character is doing anything but that as they first tried to anchor her to Prentiss, now they are anchoring her to Rossi. When Prentiss and Rossi came, they stood on their own because they could stand on ther own, they had what it took from the first day they stepped foot on the team. That is the essence of a strong, credible and successful character on this show or any other show.
Wishful thinking you say Carol.. bah humbug.. Call me and thousands, if not millions of others, dreamers then,
Season 7: Hotch, Reid, Morgan, Garcia, JJ, Prentiss and Rossi
CBS, please pay good attention to Patricia's awesome post upthread.
"Season 7: Hotch, Prentiss, Morgan, Garcia, Rossi, Reid, and JJ
YES!!!!"
^^^
A big YES!! to this from me too.
I'm going to jump in and say that yes for me too..
season 7: Hotch, Rossi, Emily, Morgan, Reid, JJ & Garcia.
I did not address Seaver in my comment about the episode because it felt worthless. She's like the dumbest character in the history of the television. I managed to block her out in "Coda", because it was a brilliant episode and I didn't want to let her ruin my enjoyment of it, but I'm dreading the moment Emily's gone. She'll be the only female field agent which will lead to increased screentime :(
Please CM, CBS, TPTB- get rid of her and restore CM to its original glory. The show was perfect with Hotch, Rossi, Emily, Reid, JJ, Morgan & Garcia. No tinkering was needed. I'm hoping against hope that the main cast for next season will include these characters.
The spin off can crash and burn for all I care.
Please CBS and CM, enough is enough. Sarah said it, you had a winning formula, and a winning team. There was no reason to tear that apart. Ever since that was torn apart, the show has felt off, like a piece is missing that you know should be there but somehow it isn't, and that piece is JJ. She is the piece of the puzzle that is missing. CBS and CM, do you think it is a coincidence that people always say "Bring JJ back," no, it is no coincidence, she is needed. The writers have done their best to write in the Garcia and Hotch characters doing JJ's job, and also Morgan with thr press conference, but this should not be. This is a dedicated role, for a dedicated person and that person is JJ.
My heart is going to be happy when she comes back for episode 18, but it will soon thereafter break when she leaves again. Please CBS and CM, if you can work something out with AJ Cook to come back, please do it, please. This is the same for Paget, please get her back. She is an amazing actress and her character on the show is amazing, please fight for her to stay, as well as be fair with Thomas Gibson and Shemar Moore with their contracts. CBS and CM, these actors have always delivered success to you with nowhere near the promotion that the spin-off got, this should tell you something. No disrespect to the Seaver character, but all you have to do is see comments everywhere, not just here, to know that isn't working out. It isn't anybody's fault, it was just an idea that wasn't good for the show, you tried it, but it is not working and to keep on trying to make it work wil turn people off to the show. It feels to forced when before watching the show felt natural with all of the characters that were on it.
If none of the ladies want to come back, which will be sad, then please work on characters that will not have a back story that make people not believe that the character is a fit. Creating people like Rossi, Prentiss, or JJ would be good becasue people will accept that, may take them time to accept it, but they will because those characters will come in with the necessary experience for an elite and specialized team like the BAU. This is not the case with the Seaver character and that is why many people have a problem with the character and are not accepting it for the elite BAU team.
But my first hope is that AJ Cook and Paget Brewster will return. Please CBS and CM, please, season 7
Hotch
Garcia
Prentiss
JJ
Reid
Morgan
Rossi
I finally managed to figure out why the introduction of Seaver makes me deeply uneasy.
Cousin Oliver.
"The Brady Bunch" brought in a cute new character to try to save a dying show. It was an epic fail, enough so that it became a meme as big as "jump the shark". There are other examples, but Cousin Oliver is the icon.
But CM isn't in any kind of ratings trouble. Its cast members aren't aging out of cuteness like the Bradys were. There is no shortage of new fresh material. So bringing in Cousin Seaver at this point makes me as a fan go, "Huhhhhh?"
And it scares the crap out of me for the future of the show. In the well-written words of Jason Gideon, folks, "Trust the profile, trust yourself." Don't fix what isn't broken.
I would also like to say that I want the show back, please. CBS and CM, you indeed had a winning formula and a winning team. A thousand suns could have set and I will still not understand why AJ was fired and Paget's appearances on the show were reduced. CBS and CM, we do not need fancy guest stars and big budget car explosions, what we need is the team that we all fell in love with. That is what people looked forward to every week, seeing those characters together at the BAU and on the field.
CBS and CM, I am not just asking you to restore the team, but also to restore my faith and confidence in you, a faith and confidence that has diminished with all of the recent changes and additions. This was not the correct course for CM, by now, I have to believe that you know this, and you can be certain that the fans have always known this, from day one. Do everything in your power to get AJ and Paget back and be fair to Thomas Gibson and Shemar Moore when it is time to renew their contracts.
CBS and CM, do the right thing for the network, the show, and for the fans who you rely on for the continued success of this show. Please give us our show back for season 7, Hotch, Morgan, Prentiss, JJ, Reid, Garcia and Rossi.
Emily's plot is so ridiculously over the top that I'm actually wishing it would be over sooner.
So she is face to face with the guy, gets no back up from her so-called former team members and lets him walk away after telling her he will kill her?
She wouldn't make to her car if she shot him?
He said he will kill you anyway. Shoot him and be done with this far-fetched 24-borrowed eye-rolling drama.
And now she is officially putting all the team's lives at risk.
Do you think Haley had clearance? No, she and Jack had their lives threatened and were send away on Protection.
If she continues to pretend nothing is going on, or "sacrifice" herself by the next episode, I don't even think I'd care to see what happens next.
Seriously writers, 18 episodes to come up with an Exit for Emily and this is how you do it?
You handled Mandy's suddenly exit a thousand times better than this.
Lin from Ohio said...I finally managed to figure out why the introduction of Seaver makes me deeply uneasy.
Cousin Oliver.
"The Brady Bunch" brought in a cute new character to try to save a dying show. It was an epic fail, enough so that it became a meme as big as "jump the shark". There are other examples, but Cousin Oliver is the icon.
But CM isn't in any kind of ratings trouble. Its cast members aren't aging out of cuteness like the Bradys were. There is no shortage of new fresh material. So bringing in Cousin Seaver at this point makes me as a fan go, "Huhhhhh?"
And it scares the crap out of me for the future of the show. In the well-written words of Jason Gideon, folks, "Trust the profile, trust yourself." Don't fix what isn't broken."
Lin from Ohio, it scares me too, very much. Please CBS and CM correct this matter before the show hits a wall by restoring the team and the writing.
Over all, I really enjoyed this episode. There was some good team interaction and a very interesting victim (the autistic boy), and I learned something about what a family with an autistic child has to deal with every day. My heart goes out to all such families. I especially liked seeing the way Reid's character was developed in this episode and his connection with the boy.
I would have enjoyed the episode much, much more if I didn't have to cringe almost every time Seaver was on screen. This week, not only did she make stupid remarks, display her inexperience and almost start crying again, she was rude and disrespectful to one of her superiors (Reid).
As many, many, many others before me have already stated, an inexperienced cadet without the extremely special qualifications of "the genius Dr. Reid", to quote JJ, does not belong on an elite team such as the BAU.
I'm sure that the video game scene with Seaver and Rossi was intended to make me bond to her more because Rossi was bonding with her. Well, it had quite the opposite effect on me. I felt manipulated and annoyed that TPTB were resorting to cheap tricks to get me to like a character. If you want me to like a character, then make them credible. On CM, this means that the character has to be smart, experienced and an expert in some area that is hopefully complementary to the team. That is, make it obvious that it was their credentials that got them the job, not some cheap ploy at sympathy.
When Rossi and Prentiss each joined the team, many fans initially disliked these characters, but a lot of those fans grew to like them because over time, we could see that each character had years and years of experience that made it credible for them to be there. This is not the case with Seaver, and as each week goes by, those fans who were inclined to hate the new character initially are now hating her even more, and many of those fans like myself who were neutral and willing to give the new character a chance, have started to really dislike her.
The team was perfect before CBS messed with it:
Hotch, Rossi, Prentiss, Morgan, Reid, JJ and Garcia
PLEASE bring JJ and Prentiss back!
But even if you can't, please, please, please at least get rid of Seaver!
GW, you, Sarah, and Patricia have said it all. I really couldn't agree more! Lin from Ohio, your Cousin Oliver, Cousin Seaver analogy was perfection and on point. Reina, yes, this is a call not only to restore the team (and may I add the writing, although, with a few exceptions, I did enjoy the Coda episode), it is a call to retore faith in the network and in the CM showrunner, and Executive Producer.
I don't know how many different ways it can be said but the fact is that you did take a beautiful, functioning team that worked so well and shredded it for no reason. Yes, the "creatively refresh" reason was given, but what has been "creatively refreshed" that has worked. This show didn't need refreshing, except perhaps to tighten up the writing. The writing is where you should have "creatively refreshed" if that is what you were truly seeking to do. Refresh it back to what captivated so many people to love the characters and the suspense of the cases. Instead, you went in with a saw and chopped everything that was good about the show to pieces.
CBS and CM, the fans of this show have tirelessly voiced what it is that they want. At this point, the "Bring JJ back" chant is something that you probably hear in your sleep, and you better believe that it is something that you will continue to hear. So please, stop trying to placate us with writing that is not up to CM standards and characters that GW ad so many others here and everywhere have said why doesn't work. Stop betraying the support that we have given the network and please start showing us the respect and consideration we deserve as fans of this show.
Please listen to Sarah, Patricia, Lin from Ohio, Reina, GW, me, and so many countless others and give us our show back!
For me it would be great Seaver turned out to be a criminal murderers whose instincts have remained hidden , and nowc onfronting all those scenes of murders , the inspirationto get the ax .
That the BAU has to go behind a UNSUB that is on your team casue would give logic to that character.
Jessica, Costa Rica
I think the entry list of Paget and Joe Mategna was different from that of Nichols. Remember that the output of Lola Glaudini and Mandy Patinkin was on personal business, a decision they made. In addition, Rossi and Emily are characters that had some sense: both are of great character with strong personalities who contribute to the team. The entry of these characters rich in history and was surprised though at the time to Elle and Gideon, at the end was best for the program output.
But the departure of AJ and Paget's now been a total disrespect to the actresses and the same fans.
However, if at least fill the new character, not one, two spaces as important, at least give time, but simply RN is not necessary nor the character personality lends itself to a good performance.
Jessica, Costa Rica
I feel sorry for her, but honestly there is no way to save a character so poor, and is not flashy. And besides, come to replace two beloved characters of the program, just RN's have all opposed.
Come on people, give Seaver a chance. Of course, the circumstances she is joining in are awkward and she can't replace JJ and/or Prentiss.
But I can't understand the way you are going off on the characters credibility. Seems kind of advanced and overreacting to me.
Honestly, how credible are charakters like Reid, Garcia or Prentiss on closer inspection?
Garcia - the nerdy, overstyled tech-godess, that snipps with her fingers an the world of edv-indicated trouble shrinks to peanuts.
Prentiss - sooooo experienced and badass, speaking like every foreign language that occours on the show, so overdosed self-concious on her effect on men. Too much for my taste.
And Dr. Reid. Please, I ask your pardon. In comparison with Seaver he is displaced in the same way you are stating that she is. Not mentioning his "unbelievable genius", but he came to the BAU because Gideon mentored him. Nobody in this place said: oh my god, half a kid with absolutely no self-confidence and nearly no social skills. Let him come back in ten years when he has gained experience and learned how to deal with people.
Don't get me wrong, I really like this show and all of it's characters. Each of them in it's very own way. I just can't understand the reaction to the new introduced character and it's credibility. Even if she is a rookie. Let her get part of the team.
Call me a biggot. But i am really starting to enjoy Rachel Nichols as Ashley Seaver.
she needs some love here, so i am gonna give her some. she needs it
Sammy, sorry, the Seaver character is beyond repair and honestly should have never been introduced to Criminal Minds. You say that this fan reaction is advanced, no Sammy, it is not advanced it is something that instinctively Criminal Minds fans know, and for that matter, so does the show. Why do you think they have gone through pains to try and cajole the audience into having some sort of emotional connection with this character, something that if anyone were to just take a glance at here or anywhere will know beyond the shadow of a doubt is not working, but rather having the opposite effect. It is because there is no other way to explain this character on the show, simply no other way. Want to know what the most common adjective I have seen associated with the Seaver character here and everywhere I go, useless, yes, useless.
Dr. Reid, genius, IQ 187, eidetic memory, has 3 doctorates, reads 20,000 words per minute, this is why Jason Gideon rightly tapped into Reid, only a fool would let that kind of genius slip away from teh team- Credible for the BAU where the best minds have to come together to profile cases. From day one, the show has taken great pains to show why Reid more than deserved an exemption to be on the team. Hell, this past episode did that as well. The character is beyond excellent in his brillaince and is a definite assest to the team. Jason Gideon was no fool, he brought in the best of the best with Reid.
Honestly, your agruments regarding Prentiss and Garcia are laughable and really make me question just how long and what type of attention you have been paying while watching Criminal Minds. Garcia and Prentiss have more than illustrated that not only did they have waht it took to be part of the team in their respective roles, they still do, and always will. Seaver doesn't. Seaver is a cadet, soon to be rookie, with absolutely not one hint of a clue and no merit, none to be on the BAU. Every episode that goes by painfuly shows this, and I emphasize painfully because the viewers have to sit through her chattering to get through the nitty gritty of the show, the real profilers, their experience and knowledge that lends to the case, not some random cadet that warrants absolutely no special treatment, and absolutely merits no spot on the team.
Julie hit on soemthing else that is going on with this fictional character and it is a campaign to try and say that Rachel Nichols is not getting any love, poor Rachel Nichols, and on and on. That is having about the same effect as the pity ploy the show is trying to use in effort to incorporate this character on the show. It is having the opposite effect Julie and others because this has absolutely nothing to do with the the Seaver character. Ashley Seaver could be being played by Natalie Portman, one of my favorite actresses, I love her, but you know what even Natalie Portman could not salvage this ill-conceived character. This attempt to morph the chaaracter and the actress is just as sorrowful as the show trying to use some pity ploy or now some father-daughter mentoring angle with Rossi and Seaver.
Bottom line CBS and CM, we want our show back! Do what you have to do to get AJ Cook and Paget Brewster back! Don't try and hustle Thomas Gibson and Shemar Moore out of the contracts they fully deserve. But in the words of GW, even if you can't get AJ and Paget back, please have some respect for the viewers of Criminal Minds and replace the Seaver character with someone who is up to snuff. Please CBS and CM, we want our show back!
Loving all these voices asking for tolerance with Ashley. She's taken a beating on these forums (and elsewhere) but how can the actor/the writers fight back against a thousand faceless attackers?
Seaver needs a chance to grow and the team needs to find ways to get the best out of her. That's interesting development that affects all the continuing characters, and maybe we should welcome it. The show can't stagnate.
Anyway, that's my plea for generosity!
yep Seaver is starting to get better. Have definitely not written her off and neither should others do
The character is taking a beating with good reason here and in every forum. We are no fools, and we certainly aren't stupid. You cannot pull the wool over our eyes with this character, no way, no how.
Have some respect for your viewers CBS and CM, remember us, the people that support the show and bring in the revenue for your network, yeah, us. Restore what you robbed from this show.
Katia,
what I'm tryint to point out is that I was taking a step backwards and look at the characters like they were scripted. You know, looking at the show and its protagonists as a concept. That's why all this "they have proved" and "they were suffering"-talk is of no interest for me. Because this characters suffering and proving and having skills etc. is part of the script. I'm trying to take a distant look.
And with this perspective some of the old characters of the show are just as "over the top" for my personal taste like Seaver is. But the actors and characters had the luck of better circumstances when they where delivered to the audience. That's all I'm trying to say. Nothing more and nothing less.
And by the way, you may doubt whatever you want - if it makes you feel better I say: do it.
Let me get this straight, you can funnel in a bunch of money into a spin-off, that if continues at this current rate will spin-off the air, but you can't restore and respect a show that has consistently brought in ratings for your network. You rob have robbed from Peter to pay Paul. WTF????
CBS and CM get it together, invest in the writing and get the team back in order.
Sammy, the show is over the top because of this ridiculous Seaver character. Look, you have a right to your opinion as I have to mine, but when you position a comment as saying that people are being advanced in their judgment of that character, then yeah, look for some replies. Over and over people have written well- thought out reasons why this character should not be on the show, so to say that this is some advanced judgment, sorry, but that is unacceptable to me based on the comments I have seen here and elsewhere.
Again, feel free to have your opinion and state it as such, but don't make it seem like people haven't taken the time and thought as to why they feel the way that they feel about this character.
Katia,
I wrote that it seems advanced and overreacting to me.
That includes the possibility that I'm wrong.
I'm respecting your opinion and I don't want to change it. I just wanted to point out my point of view. And even if the whole theme here is full of well-written posts that state an opinion opposite to mine I would still feel free to state why I see it with other eyes.
Yeah, but how can you say 'We are not stupid', Caridad -- I might be! I'm a CM fan and I've liked Ashley from the very beginning. I like what she brings. She has a different energy to any of the other regulars.
She's not the hard-nosed expert (yet), she's not quite the victim. On CM people tend necessarily to be organised into three groups: killer, victim, Cop/BAU. But the real world that the team is fighting to protect doesn't work on those terms. It's muddier, more naive, and gentler. Ashley goes into that gently middle because she belongs tangentially to all three groups. It's not that she's an ordinary member of society -- her early experience won't let her be that -- but she's interestingly hard to place. In plot terms, she's interesting. On a plant, she'd be one of the growing points.
It's always easier in any analysis to find the negatives than to create the fresh ground. That's what the writers are trying to achieve and what the new character may bring. Look at how Rossi expanded the show. The new girl might open it up in unexpected good ways.
UK viewer
Anonymous,
since Ashley is none of those things in the three categories you mentioned, she STILL has no businees being on the ELITE AND EXPEREIENCED
BAU TEAM. And Ashly doesnt add anything but a pretty face to the show. She's not BAU family matierial. She just doesnt fit in with the cast and eache episode she's on, she does something worng.
Also, not everyone fits into those categories, all the characters have more to them then just being part of the BAU.
I'm saying that we are not stupid enough to believe that a cadet can just stroll on into the BAU when year after year this show stressed that this just can't be. Hotch even said it to Prentiss who is infinitely more qualified at that time, and now, to be on the team. He said the BAU is not a place for people to give it a whirl, that is what she is doing, giving it a whirl, so we are now supposed to erase what Hotch, the Unit Chief, said and just accept that now he would change that for a cadet.
Sorry, not buying it UK viewer.
I don't know if I'm saying this right, but I hope it's understandable.
When Elle left, I didn't miss her for a moment. I hadn't liked her character that much and with Prentiss' knowledge of language and cultures, you knew she was going to be an asset to the team.
When Gideon left, I, like others wondered what would happen to my show. I had begun watching for MP, but had stayed due to the wonderful MGG. The first couple of shows without Gideon seemed to go okay and then they got JM, a terrific actor. He, like Prentiss, had an interesting back story.
It didn't take me long to accept these two as part of the family.
Then the news came that AJ Cook was being let go. I knew as soon as I heard that this would be a problem. Although JJ was low man on the totem pole, rank wise, she was the glue that held everything together. She was the bridge between the team and LEOs, victims, families and the public. And she did it all with a grace and compassion that were admirable. She was everyman. She asked the questions we wanted to ask because she wasn't a profiler. But, when called upon, she could kick ass in the field as well as any man.
Her role would be almost impossible to fill. They had tried when AJ had gone on maternity leave, not that Jordan was a bad character, just that she was not as good as JJ. They have tried again now with Garcia, but that always seems so contrived, a woman that could never look at the ugly things unsubs had done to their victims is suddenly standing up and presenting the cases and even making jokes beforehand, absurd!
So, they invented the role of Seaver, as if another pretty blond would make us forget about JJ and cure all their woes. This blond, a cadet no less, one that definitely doesn't fit with the unit, with a weak backstory and even less knowledge. They are trying so hard to make us like her when she is not likable, manipulating us if you will. Show her disrespecting Reid and she'll seem like one of the family. Show her playing video games with Rossi and it'll be like little sister playing with daddy. Please!! The audience that has loved this show for the first five seasons is not, and never has been, stupid. We learned to profile too. We learned from the best.
Then the possible exit of Paget, I hope she decides to stay, but I understand completely if she wants to leave. If she does decide to stay, I hope she sticks it to them good at contract time.
The writing had been less than stellar this season. I'm not sure if that's due to poor writers or the fact that, with all that's happend, their at as much of a loss as we are.
I hope TPTB and CBS realize that this show is loved, not for the fact that it stars oscar winning actors, or actors with two million dollar a show salaries that don't even show for work. We love this show because, although it can sometimes horrify or sicken us, it is brought to life by incredible actors dedicated to their craft, who show us that beyond the horror and violence there is something to learn. They show us that blood ties are not necessary to be family.
CBS may be reading this? Good.
How to fix what wasn't broken until you decide to "fix it":
1 - Hire AJ Cook back.
2 - Beg, and I mean BEG Paget to stay.
3 - Give the producers more money to hire more writers, if possible, the old writers, like Andrew Wilder and Jay Beattie & Don Dworkin back.
4 - Start treating the lead actor like a lead actor.
5 - Stop meddling. We know you don't watch this show. You know nothing about it, so don't come giving your opinions on it.
6 - Fire Nina Tassler, because in one year, not only she seriously hurt a very loved, perfect show, based on a badly planed, unnecessary spin-off, she also gave Charlie Sheen a raise.
PS: Did you all know Two & a half men is probably gone for good?
PPS: Party in my house this weekend. Because it's good to know that in the end, CBS got what deserved.
Laura
Seaver is great and the family dynamic is beginning to show with her. Next season she will be one with the team. She is no doubt getting better and better with experience
Season 2 Episode 9 and I quote, "Profiling is a specialty. You just can't let anyone try it who wants to give it a whirl!" So how come its ok to let a cadet who blatently disobeyed orders, almost got herself killed and put the team in danger is able to join this elite unit?
If you can get past that, then why is it she was chosen without taking any of the specialized profiling classes that JJ would have needed to take?
If you can get past that, then why is someone whose biggest asset is she can excel on an obstacle course be more qualified than someone who has years of experience with the FBI or those who hold higher education degrees in psychology etc.
If you can get past that, why would the team allow a cadet to travel with them to unknow scenes when the risk of harm to her or themselves having to protect her is high (they are chasing the worst of the worst)as well as allow her to give the profile with the team?
But what really makes me angry, besides the fact that this character is ridiculous, is that in order to get this character they had to fire the only two strong, highly qualified women, 1 of which was equal in profiling with the 4 male profilers they decided to keep. Do they not think women are capable of being highly qualified on Criminal Minds. Do they think all should be interns/cadets and or designated to a desk job?
What the TPTB did was insult everyones, especially women, intelligence and delegated females back to being weak, damsel in distress, baywatch beauties profilers!
The Seaver character is the worst addition ever. CBS needs to take Sheen's paycheck and re-hire the cast we all love and that has giving them 5+ years of excellent ratings! Every time I see the Seaver character I think of everything above...there is no way I will be able to like the character.
The "Dapper Don" and his show are probably off the air for good, well, that is smashing news Laura! I too think I shall have a party to celebrate the disastrous decision making that led to the possible removal of that show and its outrageously overpaid actor. I bet there will be no parties at CBS as the ad revenue that will be lost as a result will be no pretty sight.
CBS, all is not lost though. If you go by the recommendations of Laura and Patricia, you can in some measure recoup what has been lost monetarily, but most important, in the respect of the viewers of this show. You have tarnished your name with the CM audience by slashing and burning every vestige of integrity and quality this show once had in abundance.
Take heed and repair what you have erroneously pilfered from this show.
It seems like the way you become incorporated into the BAU family is to be snarky and sarcastic to Reid. Everyone on this team has done it (though Penelope not nearly as much as the others-it certainly helps that she is just as geeky as he is), and more and more, it's not as gentle, light hearted or fun loving as it was in the past. Whether that is intentional on the writers' part or just poor storytelling, I can't figure out. Witness Emily and Rossi in "Devil's Night" or Morgan in so many episodes this year. Since everybody sees things differently, I interpreted the Reid/Ashley exchange as she swiftly shut him down with no hint to him that she was joking, and then turned around and shared a smirk with Emily and Morgan. Yep, she's one of the "family" now, because she's rude to the baby brother of the team. Granted I have a HUGE bias towards Reid, but that sort of behavior doesn't endear me to any of the team members that do it, but particularly not a newbie who doesn't have that previous tight bond with Reid the others have had.
Yes LaShawna, they need to stop doing that across the board. Reid is someone worthy of respect, regardless of how quirky he may be at times. Your also correct, Seaver, who basically just got there and is a cadet, is the least indicated to act that way towards Reid or any of the other members of the team. It was not endearing and quite frankly was the straw that broke the camel's back for me in terms of that character.
Raven, thank you for beautifully and concisley highlighting what are indeed the issues with this character, as well as correctly pointing out the sexist nature on the part of CBS in removing two strong female characters from the show.
In most workplaces what was said to Reid by Seaver would have been overlooked, but the FBI is one of those entities that is rank driven. You respect and obey your superiors, even when you don't want to. We know from her first episode that Seaver can't obey. It would appear she hasn't got the respect part down either. Even though she may have been sorry she asked, she should have kept her mouth shut and listened. She is a cadet after all and he is an SSA.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EH62omSUxcg
I loveed this episode. It was so cute with reid and sammy/ And sammy wouldn't touch anyone but he grabbed reid's hand that was cute. Reid is so good with kids, he should have kids! And they didn't completly drop the headaches because the book he was carrying when it showed him walking in from the metro said Migrane on it. So he probably still has them but he's just doing better at hiding them, and it will probably resurface after all of the things with Ian doyle end. I heard that the episode Lauren is going to be a bloodbath. I loved this episode. it is definately one of my favorites. And I really kind of like seaver, she looks to Rossi as a father figure its cute. Can't wait for next weeks!
reidforever said...
"And I really kind of like seaver, she looks to Rossi as a father figure its cute."
If she needs a father, let her go to the prison that her dad is stashed at and get her off of this show!! The BAU is not "Daddy Camp," UGH!
I just read this and I had to post it here:
"We've been posting over and over and over again about how we feel about the direction that CM has taken lately and apparently you guys just aren't getting the message so I'm going to lay it out real simply: WE WANT QUALITY, NOT QUANTITY. You have something great in this show and you're mucking it up by removing and limiting loved characters such as JJ and Prentiss, inserting flimsy ones like the paper-thin Seaver, and flinging out episodes that are just plain substandard. And please, quit trying to force feed a whole new show down our throats. This isn't an instance of where you can just 'insert cast here' and make it work.
So stop with the cast changes, cancel CMSB, hire some good writers for CM - you know, the ones that actually do their research - and get back to work. Or, keep doing what you're doing and you guys can write a book titled "How to Kill a Top Ten Show in Less than One Season!".
CBS are you out there, hellooooo! People have been posting over and over here and, damn it everywhere, about this. What, are you invested in killing every sign of life in this show!!!!!! I can't remember when was the last time that a show has had its fans appeal so much on its behalf. But it is like you are not getting it and will not get it until this show completely crashes and burns. Just for once, damn it, for once, listen to what the fans have been telling you guys for what seems like forever!!!
Coda was just so damn cute. Reid with Sammy, Hotch with Jack, Morgan&Garcia, Rossi&Ashley playing video games. Did you guys notice that Rossi actually winked at Garcia when they returned?
Speaking of Rossi, I wonder if his secret is somehow related to autism or children. Just crossed my mind.
I loved the opening and closing montages and the directing was great in general. I would have liked to have even more Reid though. It's a shame they cut out Dave's line from the promo clip ("you're looking at two of the most fascinating minds I've ever encountered").
Rick's writing was great as well, and even surprising at times. I did not expect Sammy's father to die and I did not expect Sammy's mother to shoot the unsub.
I'm so glad they didn't just drop Reid's headaches.
The guy who played the unsub wasn't all that convincing, but the kid who played Sammy was amazing.
I'm really liking Ashley, I think she's kinda adorable.
FYI, that comment was taken from your website CBS!
I think that everything that needs to be said about Seaver has been said. We only have new things to contribute now with each passing episode.
I really hope that Hotch and Reid have more storylines coming up soon. Thee writers said that this seasons theme will be secrets but its really only been Prentiss and some hints about Reid and Rossi. I would like to find out more about how Garcia ended up in the BAU though. That was hinted at but never fully explained.
Paget Fan said....
"I think that everything that needs to be said about Seaver has been said. We only have new things to contribute now with each passing episode.
I really hope that Hotch and Reid have more storylines coming up soon. Thee writers said that this seasons theme will be secrets but its really only been Prentiss and some hints about Reid and Rossi. I would like to find out more about how Garcia ended up in the BAU though. That was hinted at but never fully explained."
Yes, I am positive that because of the nature of that character there will be more to add with each episode. OY! With regard to your comment on the secrets, yes, I would like to know what Hotch's secret may be, and yes, it would be great to find out what were the circumstances behind Garcia's entrance into the FBI.
As an aside, the Thomas Gibson videos posted on the blog are wonderful!
Sorry for the multiple posts but also wanted to say that I'd like our show back CBS and CM.
there are vintage CM episodes on at the same time, A&e and a channel (canada). Different episodes. Whcih do I watch?
So conflicting.
The dilemma.
with each passing moment, I miss more and more of the other episode.
What do I do? Oh the agony!
Shut the tv off.
I have every season on dvd and can watch both episodes one after the other, commercial free at my convenince in whatever order I want however many times I want.
Thats the solution. That way I can decide which Hotch episode i want to watch first.
Ugh, did not like. Too much jumping to conclusions without adequate background explanations, and IMO a ton of characters were *out* of character - especially Rossi and Reid. The Prentiss thing? No. Particularly from Man...Who...Talks...Like...This... I'm pretty sure the writer didn't quite mean to insinuate that A) there's a mole in the BAU; B) that after being in a Siberian prison for 7 years somehow Doyle could *get* a mole in the BAU (or conversely, he had a mole in place before prison who's been there the entire time even though Emily only joined about 4 years ago); or C) Prentiss' teammates are idiots for immediately finding Doyle, and then immediately losing him so he could have a convo with Prentiss all alone. Only good parts were opening montage, closing montage, and Reid playing the piano.
Agreed with the argument Seaver has not been established enough with either the team - or the viewing audience - to be able to be a jerk to Reid and get away with it. Whenever we see Morgan's teasing, we know he and Reid have an established friendship, plus we also know they've been working together a great many years.
And TBH, nothing else about Seaver in the episode helped put her little "sorry I asked" comment in a better light. First off, she's so stupid she doesn't realize that uhh, maybe there's a reason the local PD didn't question the boy directly and asked for the BAU instead. That they weren't just being complete morons who ignore protocol. Second, WTF, the kid is the unsub? After being told everything about him and the crime? At the very least, how does she think a 10 year old got rid of two adult bodies? Is she thinking his autistic symptoms (which she's undoubtedly been told about since they had to call in the BAU just to try to talk to the kid) have been an act all his life? Third, "there's a lot they don't teach you in the academy" when it seemed the concept Prentiss was getting at was pretty obvious. Sorry, you're not 3. Ignorance is not a cute look on you. And fourth, WORD to the person who pointed out how often the storyline had to be stopped so we could have our obligatory "explain everything to Seaver" moment. The Morgan/crowbar scene was all kinds of dumb. Just go away Cousin Oliver.
I also personally don't like the current Rossi/Seaver father/daughter vibe. But that's just because I really like the Rossi/Reid bonding, and Seaver takes away from that.
And the scene with Rossi and that aunt about how a father wants better for their child really annoyed me. At first I thought maybe this was a hint to Rossi's "secret" that's suppose to happen this year, even if it's already been established he doesn't have any kids. But what really annoyed was that, while yes, I know Joe Montegna has an autistic child, the go-to person on stats was *him*. Personally, I'd think it would come from the other (main) character with KNOWN autistic traits (whether or not he's actually autistic) - or at least watch Rossi thinly veil his comments about him. The promo for this episode far exceeded the overall product. At least in that the advertisers acknowledged something's off about Reid, even if the show doesn't. "You're watching two of the most fascinating minds I've ever met."
That no mention, or odd eye for that matter, was ever thrown at Reid during this whole episode really bugged. Particularly when all the traits they were assigning to Sammy belonged to Reid as well (doesn't handle touch, thinks logically and in patterns, etc etc). It's like how they ignored the elephant in the room when Reid was telling them all about the support groups in "13th Step".
Honestly, if they go with Rossi-has-an-autistic-or-otherwise-differently-abled-sibling-and/or-child instead of going with the character-who-screams-it-in-nearly-every-single-episode-that-they-already-HAVE will not go over well with me.
You know what would make for a great Season 6 finale?
KILLING OFF ASHELY SEAVER!!!
Love this addition of seaver. its great to see a new agent being developed. The hate for this character is unjustified
Blue Sunflower, does "TBH" stand for "To be honest?"
Caroline, it is not a point of justified or unjustified, it is people's feeling and opinion of a character that they've formed based on different factors, many of which have been stated on this thread and other threads, Raven's being one of the most clearest. Raven, that was very well written out, thank you.
Just as you have a right to your opinion, so do they and so do I. Whether you believe their opinion or mine is correct or not, it is their's to have and thus it is not correct to state that how they feel towards a character is unjustified. Would you like if someone said that your feeling toward Seaver is unjustified; I'm guessing no.
This ep reminded me of an ep of Fringe season 1, where a kid is kidnapped because he can play a piano piece that contains some kind of unsolved equation or something (I don't remember, Fringe is too convoluted for me sometimes). The song even sounds similar.
I didn't understand why the BAU had to come in though. Could have been a believable reason but wasn't clearly established.
The opening montage was great, and something different from the usual.
Much as I love Emily, the am-i-watching-24-instead storyline is getting annoying. Why does she bait him into meeting her and then let him walk away? It seems out of character for her. And why not involve the BAU? They're also federal agents, they would be able to help, or at least take care of themselves. It's getting illogical. At least show us more of why she would be so afraid of this guy, instead of just giving us shots of her smelling some flower and then getting shoved in a car. Seriously?
It was good to see bits of the BAU's private lives, but actually it can get irritating too - it's as though the writers can't decide how much they want to tell us about the characters. Some crime dramas, like Law and Order SVU, focus on the crimes more than the characters, and yet those characters are well fleshed out with credible backstories. In CM the backstories seem to be tossed from one writer to the next, each of whom decides to write something different. It's a bit lame when the fans seem to know the characters better than the writers themselves.
That said, I'm not out to slam the CM writers, esp those who might be new to the whole series (I'm not sure, can't assume). They're probably doing their best - it just seems now that their "best" isn't really enough.
Oh and. While I didn't appreciate Seaver's insolence to Reid on the plane, I didn't get why they were talking about Doctor Who. Granted, a reason might not be necessary, but it seemed oddly placed. Just like the mention of Reid's socks, though that makes sense on hindsight. Nice socks, anyhow.
Still, a big improvement from the previous ep.
Gubegirl, you posed a question that no one has answered and that was "Do you think they are listening to what we have been saying here?" Ultimately, I have to say no, not only have they not been listening to us now, they didn't listen to us with AJ, they marginally listened with Paget (too late), and they certainly aren't listening to us about Hotch and Seaver. The brass tax for CBS and CM is ratings, as long as the ratings can justify the slop that they have largely been serving us this season, then they will continue on with that. I'm not trying to be negative or say that people shouldn't voice their opinion, but CBS and CM could give a rats behind what people on the net are universally saying. And what they have universally been saying is that they want the writing back to the level it once was, that they want JJ back, that they want them to fight for Paget to stay, that they want to see more of Hotch as the Unit leader and that they want them to get rid of the Seaver character. These are things that have continually been voiced on the Internet to the point that only a complete moron would not sense the displeasure of those who voice their opinion on the Internet regarding season 6. However,unless this displeasure translates into a ratings dip, prepare for much of the same come season 7.
The show needs to show a debt of gratitude to the male leads of the show because they are the ones that are making it tolerable for people to stick around when Prentiss is out and Seaver is unfortunately still there, and when the majority of the writing will most likely be hit and miss like this season, again, they will see no need to change the writing because the numbers will justify them to continue writing as they have, numbers that will be largely driven by the presence of the male leads. They know that the male leads will keep people around no matter how degraded the show gets. I'll say this, if TG, SM, and/or MGG leave they had better turn off the lights and send everybody home because the show will crash and burn quickly. It will be interesting how many will defect ratings wise when Paget leaves.
CBS and CM don't care and they will continue not to care as long as they feel they have a right to do so. Personally, one Paget leaves, I'm gone. I love the male leads but I do not watch solely for the male leads, or for that matter, any one specific character. I watch for what once was a wonderful ensemble cast that clicked (Hotch, Prentiss, Garcia, JJ, Reid, Rossi and Morgan), I watch fir what was once amazing writing that made me watch episodes over and over to the point where I could recite lines word for word, I watched for the care that the show use to put into replacing characters (Gideon and Elle- who unlike AJ and Paget left voluntarily, completely different) with characters that the viewers could respect and felt like the show was respecting them with. That is not the case today.
I feel so disillusioned and disrespected by CBS and CM that they would destroy CM the way they have, and that they would insert a character with no depth, no sense, who is nothing more than a last minute attempt to placate viewers with a female face.
Should CBS and CM ever begin to genuinely care to implement the changes and restoration that individuals like Sarah and Patricia brought up in this particular thread, and that others have brought up in recent threads here and throughout the Internet, then I will look to CBS and CM with respect and appreciation. Until then, once Paget leaves I will leave and I will never again watch any show aired on CBS.
Ada, I am afraid you may be right. I have seen this happen to other shows, the belief that the show is invincible and that it will sustain itself with continued poor decisions and writing. Every show has its day, but it is like CBS and CM are trying to move that date up for CM by doing what they are presently doing. Yes, people may continue to view the show because one or more of their male leads is still on the show, but those characters will increasingly become degraded. I hope not, but again, I've seen this happen to other shows.
On another note, I just read this comment on another forum regarding the last scene of Coda, the confrontation with the unsub. The comment was around how crazy it was that Ashley was at that scene, wearing a kevlar, unarmed. WTF?? Hotch would never have allowed that! Anyway, here is what the comment said,
"I think that scene is yet another demonstration of how the other characters are being compromised as a result of her being there. Specifically, why would Hotch ever allow a cadet to place themselves in that type of situation, an unarmed cadet at the scene of a potentially dangerous confrontation with an unsub??? Nevermind that Hotch would have never allowed this unqualified cadet to be on the team in the first place.
I just don't see how the rest of the team won't continue to written in these ways to accommodate the presence of this unqualified cadet, soon to be unqualified rookie junior agent."
adrift posted:
"Oh and. While I didn't appreciate Seaver's insolence to Reid on the plane, I didn't get why they were talking about Doctor Who."
Because she asked. She says so: I'm sorry I asked."
And instead of listening, she goes all sarcastic on him.
Seriously, I don't like when the rest of the team, who knows Reid and have all been through a lot with him, show no respect or want to listen to to what he wants to say.
Is it too much to ask to have another nerd around to discuss these nerdy things with him? Hell, I'll do it.
I just find it really sad that these are the (apparently) only people in his life. And none of them share the same interests and don't give him the time of the day.
If this show gets canceled some day, I wish CBS transfers Reid to The Big Bang Theory.
Amanda
I think they may have Reid in that position because it highlights how different he is from the rest of the team, really, from most people in the things that he is interested in and knows about. His brilliance puts him in sort of a league of his own, it is what distingusihes his personality from that of the rest of the team. I think he connects with the team in different ways, just not that way, yet, there is still a connection between them.
I do think they need to tone down the disrespecting him. It is one thing to do it in a playful "kid brother" way, but sometimes they go a bit too far. This was done better in the earlier seasons than now. As others said, the fact that Seaver did this on the plane to Reid was flatly unacceptable, disrespectful (considering her position) and rude.
Yeah, to that, if the writers have seen the negative reaction that people have shown towards Seaver's rude behavior to Reid on the plane, I am just certain that they are going to do a 360 and try and turn her into his best friend because of the "oops" in this episode. Of course, that will be obvious and feel fake and forced, but I would bet a zillion dollars that they are going to try and do that.
I quiet don't understand, why there is so much bewilderment on Seavers reaction at the plane. Yes, I like Reid and ok, his rank is much higher than hers. But the conversation appeared private to me - or was Dr. Who part of the acutal case?
And in private conversation its absolutly up to her to show that it's been just enough explanation on the question she asked.
To be honest, I had a co-worker with this kind of behaviour myself. At every simple question asked he started an endless recitation of facts and blabla, that nobody had asked for - as if he had had an encyclopedia for breakfast and needs to spit it out now, in this kind of "i-know-more-than-you-do"-voice. That might be funny when you are just watching the whole scene - it isn't when you are in it. At this point, Seaver seemed really sympathetic to me and I understand her reply.
Sammy, SHE was the one who asked about Dr. Who so he was merely responding to her question.
And I don't think Reid was trying to prove to her that he's smarter than her. He's never been arrogant about his intellect. That's just the way he is. He loves learning about about new things and sharing his insight with others. It's also a part of his nature to give detailed explanations about everything, especially if it's something he's passionate about.
At the end of the day, Seaver's reaction didn't sit well with some of us, some found it funny, and some were okay with it. However, I didn't find her response "sympathetic" in the least bit. Arrogant, sarcastic, rude are some of the words that come to my mind.
She sorta rolled her eyes and totally cut him off! That was just plain mean. I felt bad for him. And then that nasty smirk at Morgan.
The writers surely are not doing this character any favours by the way they're portraying her. Every week she does something stupid and mind-boggling. The bottom line is, she doesn't deserve to be there, and shouldn't be there. She's slowing down the flow of the show, bringing down the integrity of the other characters as well, and she's just a bad fit. Others may disagree, and I can accept that.
Phew...it felt good getting that off my chest!
Sammy, they are in a situation where she is a cadet and he is superior. Yes, the conversation was about a sci-fi movie, but the point is her reaction was out of line because of her rank, but also because she hadn't established the type of rapport with him that would warrant that type of reaction on her part to him. It was rude, nasty, and arrogant. If someone acted towards me the way she acted towards Reid, the first word that would pop into my head would be one that starts with a B and ends with an H.
She is at an elite and specialized unit as a cadet, she really has no business being there because she has not worked up threw the ranks to be there and has zero experience to do so. But somehow she feels it is correct to basically shut down a converstion and walk off. If an intern (which is what she basically is) did that at my office whether it be that the conversation was about work or Ronald McDonald, trust me, that would not fare well for that person. Her reaction shows that she has zero common sense and the fact that they wrote in Morgan and Prentiss sitting there smirking in agreement is unfortunate but yet another way in which they are trying to mask the fact that she shouldn't be there. I forget who said it here, but that scene was another example of the smoke and mirrors they are trying to use to distract viewers from the obvious reality that she has no business there. What because she is rude and plays video games with Rossi that somehow makes up for the fact that she has no rank or experience to be there. It doesn't and no matter how many of those scenes they try to write in it doesn't change that fact.
They'll keep writing in those types of scenes, but they just simply won't work.
heyya, I saw your post after I posted mine and am in total agreement! Every week, a bigger and bigger hole is dug for this character, and really at his point, people are done. She could catch 10 serial killers, rescue puppies from drowning, and help old ladies cross the street, that won't help, from what I've seen across the board at the different forums I go to people are done with this character.
Not only doesn't she deserve to be there because she hasn't worked up threw the ranks to be there, but she does stop the pace and the flow of the investigation because instead of the pro's getting in there and getting it started investigation wise, now it is "Seaver, what do you think that is, why is that, etc?" What the hell? Look, I don't watch this show to see people get trained, I watched to see those who are trained, with the experience and knowledge to be there work it out. It is BORING to have to sit through "Profiling 101 with Seaver." Come on, they are dealing with dangerous criminals, usually short on time, and now they are trying to sell tha they have the time to train some clueless cadet. And train her exactly for what because she'd have to be there 7 or more years to in reality get a spot on the team. The whole thing is just so stupid! Oh, and for sure she is and will continue to bring down the integrity of the other characters. For instance, that scene that Brianna brought up, the final scene. Okay, so they are trying to say that Hotch would be cool with taking some cadet with no gun to God knows what type of situation with the unsub. The rest of the team had their kevlars on and guns drawn, they were not there to have tea with the unsub. No Unit Chief in his or her own right mind would have sanctioned that, but Hotch would. Come on!
Basically, anytime they have her close to doing anything that the show has always stressed that only these seasoned pro's could do like give part of the profile to the police, that brings down the integrity of the characters and invalidates what the show always stressed made ths unit elite, specialized, and stand apart, a unit not just anyone could get on. But I guess qualifications and experience count for nothing anymore on this show. They have just made a joke and a mockery out of this team, the once elite and specialized BAU.
I loved the episode! I've got to admit - I wasn't thrilled about Seaver, but she doesn't bother me any more. Yep, she doesn't have qualifications for the job, no experience but it's similar to the time when JJ was replace due to her pregnancy - we can see that being profiler is not about reciting descriptions of behaviors while you present a profile, it's about understanding the person who acted in this particular way. And you don't get this kind of knowledge just from the books - that's when Seaver comes and shows us that her conclusions are wrong most of the time and that she doesn't really know, what the hell is she talking about. I find it very refreshing. And the joke in the plane? "Rude", really? I thought it was funny just like I did when in one of the episodes (season 4 I think?) after Reid's lecture Prentiss touched his chick and said "he's so life like". Every team member did a little bit of mocking Reid, chill out people.
I liked at the end of the episode the flashes of what our profilers do after closing up the case - great team interactions, but it also made me miss Gideon and Reid's scenes a bit.
Didn't really feel the lack of Hotch in the episode, but I wouldn't be against to see him on the screen more than 3 minutes and 5 facial expressions.
The kid portraying acoustic child - amazing job. Can't wait for rest of "you sound like you're talking from experience", more Rossi!
And the scene when Prentiss meets with two of her buddies to talk over the cell phone in the park or so - seriously? ;) Seemed kind of ridiculous of them to come to one place - yeah, mr. Bad Guy we make it so much easier for you to shot us. Don't waste your money for fuel, we'll all come to you.
Reid & piano = yay!
Seaver's asinine conclusions, stupid remarks and rude behavior are not refreshing. They are trite, boring and a complete waste of time. Yes, profiling is a combination of book learning and experience. But this is years of book learning and experience. If this weren't the case, there would be no standard to get on the team, but there is, or at least there was before they thought to "creatively refresh" the show in this most stupid way. Characters like Reid showed us just how extraordinary an individual had to be to get be exempted to get a spot on the team. Reid, a one in a billion genius, was exempted because of that genius; if it were not for that genius, he would not have been exempted to be on the team. A team that it takes genius to be exempted into now just allows some cadet with nothing to be exempted onto the team in. Good grief!
Maribel, I agree with you. They have basically turned the BAU into a joke and a mockery. Now they are some sort of intern, cadet, rookie junior agent training camp instead of a team that is prepped and ready to take care of business with team members that are up to snuff to do so. It is just a joke.
Heyya and Maribal,you are so right. If they wanted me to like Seaver,then they failed miserably by her treatment of Reid. She asked the question and couldn't handle the answer. She was probably mad because Reid called Bill and Ted's excellent adventure a "ripoff". I love Reid's so called rants and can listen to him talk for hours. I could see the others cut him off when they are in the middle of a case,but this was a relaxed situation. She could have just listened. I'm not thrilled when Morgan cuts him off too,but as others said, he knew Reid longer. Heck,Reid even gets back at him sometimes(such as when Morgan freaked out in the elevator with him and Reid made sure the others(esp. Garcia) found out.
Seaver, on the hand, had no right to act like it was a rite of passage to insult him. She doesn't realze how lucky she is to have someone like Reid on the team.
It's too bad that Zoe from Zoe's Reprise had to get killed on the episode. I would rather have had her being a trainee than Seaver. First,she seemed to be a born profiler. Second, she looked completely different than JJ.Third,I can totally see Rossi mentoring her. Fourth,she seemed to be someone who would listen to what Reid had to say and would have devoured the info. It's a shame she had to walk right into a murderer's hands.I would have accepted her better than the JJ clone. I miss JJ and I will miss Emily. I will never warm up to Seaver,whom I think of as the Jonas Quinn(from Stargate)of CM. Someone who should never have been added to the team aand being tols we should love them.
Certainly one of the better episodes this season, I enjoyed the balance of this episode for the most part, the team dynamic was certainly a lot better than it has been through season 6 so far, I still don’t like the inclusion of Seaver and the character doesn’t do anything for me but after all that has been said on this todate I’m not going to pursue this, other than to say that Rick Dunkle did a better job to integrating her into this episode.
The connection of the team to their real life & tying into the case was nicely done in the beginning & the end, the highlight most definitely being the Hotch / Jack scenes, would have loved to have seen more of the two, I felt like we were teased with Hotch & Jack scenes that really didn’t go anywhere, hopefully we will see more of them in future S6 episodes.
A little more presence from Hotch in this episode but he seemed to disappear in the second half of the episode, still missing our Unit Chief … can we please have him back. Was good to see Hotch paired with Morgan and his father insights written into the case profiling Sammy’s room were a nice touch.
Reid’s connection with Sammy were some of the great scenes of this episode, their connection and special moments they shared came across very nicely throughout the episode, as did Rossi and the pairing of Rossi & Reid in this instance.
There was a line I missed in this episode, in the promo when Rossi is speaking to the Aunt he says something to the effect ‘you are watching two of the greatest minds’, I’m not sure if anyone else noticed that this was not included in the episode, I saw this as a validation of Reid & a recognition of his special talents & skills which I missed in the episode.
Emily was very strong in this episode, although the confrontation with Doyle left me perplexed, if she was sitting out there for two hours surely there were others watching her. Smart move from Emily not to trust anyone & trust her instincts, but I would have hoped that she would have confided at a minimum with Hotch on what’s happening with her. As much as I understand the dangers associated with her involving the team into this situation, the non-inclusion I think could be even more devastating.
Some aside points…somethings that I noticed with Seaver & yes this might be because the character grates at my nerves and I have to shut her out … but I didn’t like the way she spoke to Reid, & did she actually ask if Sammy could be the unsub? I guess that points to the Rookie of the team, & then when they were discussing the case she stood there with her knee on the desk/table … I’m not sure how the FBI and generally law enforcement works but this is not something a junior/rookie agent would do in the presence of higher ranked agents & your Unit Chief. as I said I might be nit picking but this annoyed the hell out of me!!
And again I might be wrong but if I’m not mistaken that was not Emily getting out of the SUV at the unsub’s house!!
And completely trivial, Emily looked amazing in the black and white in the second half.
ps …posting late & I haven’t had a chance to read through the 340 posts!!
Maribel, Nadine, Kasey- I am in complete agreement with you guys. Seaver is one of the poorest and most illogical characters ever conceived in the history of television. I love CM because the main female characters were strong, independent, professional women who could hold their own in a man's world and still retain their femininity. Seaver, on the other hand, is the exact opposite. It's quite insulting for the female viewers that they replaced two much loved role-models for such a weak, wishy-washy character. She looks like she's about to start crying any minute! I don't like her. She's basically there because her father was a serial killer, and they consulted her to get her "unique insight" this so-called insight, imho, was non-existent. She didn't do anything in that episode apart from disobeying Hotch and almost getting herself killed. I was actually praying that the unsub kill her then and there. She shouldn't even have been consulted in the first place..she's useless and she's destroying the dynamics of the group too. I noticed her standing with her knee on the table- it annoyed me even more, she's unprofessional. Everything about this character is all wrong and I'm going to stop now because I can go on and on about why I think she's a bad fit, and it will all be repeated because most of the posters here and on various other threads have very eloquently pointed out why this character's inclusion beggars belief and why she is such a fail.
All I can do is hope and pray that CBS, CM, TPTB come to their senses, for once listen to their fans' pleas and rehire AJ Cook, convince Paget Brewster to come back, get Thomas Gibson and Shemar Moore onboard for season7, and fulfill all of MGG's demand. I know it's been said many times but perfection shouldn't be messed with. Hotch, Rossi, Emily, JJ, Reid, Garcia, Morgan worked. Why mess with a winning combination? Get this cast back for season7, they were one the best and certainly my favourite ensemble cast since "Friends".
You know what, because of Seaver, I started to long for a scene with Strauss, coming down on this entire team and asking them what the H is a cadet doing in there.
And just plain telling Hotch that he cannot do JJ's because he has enough to do and that even considering Garcia doing is too silly to do.
Look, I love Hotch, but this is too weird."Not replacing JJ" as if she will ever come back and letting Garcia help with the cases, since she can barely look at pictures and now, allowing Seaver to stay and even give away profiles, I'm starting to question him.
And now he is always left at the stations doing JJ's job, is an absurd.
So I'm begging for a writer to make Strauss the voice of the fans and put this team back together.
I don't care, just make things right.
Let Strauss be the "bad guy" who ends these ridiculous chain of events.
I'll even start...
"Look Aaron, I understand that this has been a very difficult year for you and your team, and I know it takes some time for things to get on track, but enough is enough...
There, go from there, make some sense, stop making the fans mad and assuming we are too stupid to remember things you have been saying for 5 years and get the show back on track.
"An autistic person does not feel emotions like normal people do so to think he could have done it isn't really to far of at all."
Okay this Tom person whoever you r (the 230th post on this thread) u have seriously pissed me off!!!
Do you actually have any experiance with autism from whence you can validate this?? Because the comment of yours i've pasted above is, FYI, 100% inaccurate !!!!!
Individuals with autism DO NOT LACK EMPATHY, and certainly FEEL LOVE, LOSS, SCARED AND NERVOUS just like the "average" human being!!! The very essence (and one of the many behavioural keys) of autism is that and autistic individual does not express his/her emotions "normally".
Kudos to the actor who played Sammie - absolutely perfect! I'm sorry Tom, did you not notice Sammie express fear, fustration, and love???
And you know what Tom... my younger brother is autistic and the 1 thing he struggles with the most is far-off misunderstandings made by people like you!
(Issue aside, and now for what this thread is for...)
Loved Sammie, Reid, Rossi
Loved Hotch with Jack
Think Seaver highlighting in book and asking stupid questions suited her character.
Loved the scene when Prentiss met her interpol pals and whole cellphone switching and dumping.
Loved the writers letting us know they haven't forgotten Reid's migrane problem
Loved Reid buying a keyboard
Loved the "it's a dog" scene with Hotch and Morgan...
...but they didn't appear again until the end :(
Honestly I am unsure whether I dislike Cadet Seaver or RN's acting.
What I mean is that a writer and the director can only create so much of a character, and the make or break is left up to the actor. If TG JM SM MGG PB PG AJ , plus mandy Patinkin in Lola were not cast on the show as their characters the essence of the characters just would not be the same.
While Seaver being a cadet (even in the finishing stages of training or having just finished)in the BAU is just plain and simple not believable or logical, I can see the character being, umm, compationately acceptable IF and only if Seaver were a strong woman like Elle, JJ and Emily before her, and not seemingly on the brink of tears.
I cannot tell if this is the way Seaver was written or if RN is a poor actress.
On a positive note I do think if Seaver is supposed to be a softly-spoken stupid-question asking cadet then everything in this episode involving her was bang on target!!!!
Except for insulting Reid. Other team members have rolled their eyes, walked away or nodded their head while not really listening but never have they actually dissed him like that!
Enjoyed this episode overall. Thanks, Rick Dunkle! Reid/Sammy scenes were captivating. MGG has beautiful chemistry with children; his being, as AJ describes him, a "Big Kid" himself probably helps!
Think RD had a huge challenge covering SO many plot lines in one ep and trying to further integrate Seaver. As a junior team member, she seemed appropriately respectful to Sr. Special Agent Reid at first and now she's suddenly dismissive of him; not a great enhancement of an already very forced and lame character who really has no place on this team.
As always, relished the flashes of the team's personal lives ante- and post- closing of the case. Would love to see more of little Jack: his interactions with Hotch are always highlights of any ep.
Also loved that Morgan wasn't just the angry action figure here, as he has been in too many eps.
Hope RD writes more eps in the future. Well done!
I got news for you an autistic person can very well kill his parents. An autistic person does not feel emotions like normal people do so to think he could have done it isn't really to far of at all.
Tom,
This boy is ten years old. He doesn't like to be touched. Yet you can conceive of him shooting his father and then dragging him, seriously injured, and his mother off somewhere. You could plainly see the blood spatter was on the right side of his body, indicating that his father was beside him when he was shot, not in front of him as he would have been if Sammy was facing him pointing a gun. The whole thing is absurd.
Just saw the promo pics on the website for the Lauren episode. Can't wait to see AJ bask as JJ for this episode! But I am upset that it will be Paget's last episode. Not to mention that it irriates the hell out of me that AJ Cook is being listed as a guest star. Come on CBS, she should have never been kicked out of series regular status!!!
CBS, you need to get AJ Cook back as well as Paget Brewster!!!!
Season 7, Hotch, Rossi, Garcia, Morgan, Prentiss, Reid, and JJ. Make it happen CBS because we want our show back!!!!
Plus, bringing Andrew Wilder back would complete the package!
BRING JJ AND PAGET BACK!!!!!!!!!
Season 7:
Hotch
Garcia
Reid
JJ
Prentiss
Morgan
Rossi
Iris said it, make it happen CBS because like her I want my show back!!!!!!!!!
OMG! The promo pics of Lauren are heartbreaking for me knowing that this is the last episode for Paget/Emily and defineitly the last episode for AJ/JJ. The phot with them on the team, I know Emily is awol at that point but seeing Seaver there makes my blood boil! God I hate her! I have a huge lump in my throat because this is not how CM should be!
Does CBS read our comments?
Because the dislike for Seaver is growing by the week.
And Averil,
i agree that the actor makes or breaks a character and i cant stand RN either. Never have been able to stand her whimpering acting and her constantl pity pleas. Bring JJ and Emily back permanently! Get rid of Seaver!
OMFG! Please cbs and ed bernero! Just look at what the fans are saying. Feedback is important is it not?
But if you want your show to keep sinking then by all means, death by Seaver is the way to go!
oh just shut up with the bickering already. it is getting so tiresome.
Seaver is a great addition and it is cool to see a new agent evolve into a profiler and befreind the team
Martin you have absolutely no right to tell anyone to shut up. Your opinion is no more, or no less than anybody elses's opinion. And guess what, you will not like mine because I think this character is beyond horrific not to mention that the delivery is flat and boring. This character adds nothing to the show except to add an element of dumbing down the show that is tragic for a show that was once so intelligently written.
What anybody can see as fantastic in this character is beyond me, but I would never tell anyone to shut up and not express that. Hmm, how about if someone told you to shut up about your opinion? You'd consider that rude and uncalled for, right. So, don't do it to anyone here.
Also, if this character is such a great addition in your eyes, what do you care if people voice an opinion contrary to your's? After all, if this character is wonderful, well, then, that will be reflected here and everywhere, right? The voices against this character should mean nothing to you Martin because if she is so great, well, then, that will come through and nothing that is said opposite to that will matter. Why are you getting upset to the point where you are telling people to shut up? You see Martin, that reveals a lot more about you than the people that have voiced why they take issue with this character. None of them has told anyone who is for the character to shut up.
Betty, it is called fear. People who fear other people's opinions resort to demanding that they "shut up." They try to insult or bully people into silence because they have nothing but intimidation ti stand on. The thing is, no matter how loud these bully's bark, they will never silence what is true.
Averil, thank you for sharing that about your brother.
Lysa, that is what I figured as well and is why I said something immediately upon reading that comment. There is no need to call for people to silence what they are feeling and what they'd like to share. That is bullying and that is not acceptable on any level.
So what you are doing, you do not call bullying??
I have seen some of these posts here, and they are not kind to Rachel Nichols.
All she did is took a job and try to get by as an actress on a tvshow she likes. And you are bullying her to get her off the show, by calling her a bad actress and not liking her for looking like AJ. Which is ridiculous, yeah she is also a blonde woman big deal. So i guess you think all blondes look like AJ then. Just because you don't like the character you say these things. I definitely call that bullying also!
Martin, people are sharing opinions about a character, opinions about the quality, or lack thereof, of the actress who is playing the character, these are called opinions and people have a right to share them. What is not correct, ever, is someone such as yourself stepping in and telling them to shut up because you dislike that opinion. How is that okay? Do you find that acceptable? That is where the bullying comes in because people have every right to share those opinions and not be told by you or anyone else that they shouldn't have them.
By all means share your opinion, but when you say things like "shut up," stop "bickering," things of that nature then you are creating an environment where people, will be reluctant to share their opinions because of what you have verbally stated. That IS bullying.
Furthermore Martin, I have never said anything about AJ and Rachel being blondes and potentialy looking like one another. I don't know where on the world you would even get that from based on what I wrote.
Yes, I stick by my OPINION that I think Ms. Nichols is doing a poor job acting out this role. I don't believe she has any range in this role. In my OPINION, her delivery is flat, bland, and boring. Of course, the writing plays a role in her delivery.
Ms. Nichols is acting out a role on a television show and should thus not be a stranger to either people liking her acting, not liking her acting, or being indifferent to her acting. She is an actress in Hollywood, reviews of her acting are par for the course, they go hand in hand.
Wow...Betty, I couldn't have said it better myself. She is an actress, so it is only fair to judge her based on her acting skills. Nobody personally attacked her in any way.
Onto CM and "Lauren" so I saw a promo pic with Rossi and Seaver. He seemed agitated and she had blood all over her clothes and it looked like she was crying again...her eyes were all red. Her inclusion in the BAU doesn't make any sense to me, and I don't think it ever will. She's too emotional, too needy. Hotch would never have accepted her.
Seeing all those promo pics, I'm scared..what's going to happen to Emily? I have mixed feelings regarding the episode. I really don't want Emily to leave :'(
It is more than this role. I've seen her act out other roles and I don't think she is a strong actress, not at all from what I have seen. Yeah, and the writing for this character is off the charts because the character is off the charts for the show. This character is hella bad for CM, simply hella bad. But hey, that is what I think and I am sure it is not the first time someone has said that they don't think her acting is good or specifically, that this character is hella bad for CM.
Don't understand why people are getting upset over a review of an actor acting. Umm, hellooooooooooooooooo that is what happens, actors get reviewed on acting, just like people get reviewed at whatever job they do. This is not something new.
"Onto CM and "Lauren" so I saw a promo pic with Rossi and Seaver. He seemed agitated and she had blood all over her clothes and it looked like she was crying again...her eyes were all red. Her inclusion in the BAU doesn't make any sense to me, and I don't think it ever will. She's too emotional, too needy. "
Erm... She's covered in blood and she's 'needy' for feeling upset. No, she's h-u-m-a-n. One strong reason why Rossi and Prentiss would want her onto the team is that she carries this quality. I'm really interested to know what's behind this scene. Think the Rossi / Seaver relationship could be good for the show and take them both further in character terms. We're used to seeing Rossi being hard-nosed. Fatherly Rossi is more rarely seen. And at this very early stage, anything with Seaver is new.
The promo pics for "Lauren" are all interesting and really making me keen to see the show.
Btw, to be blunt, I think Martin's right when he talks about 'bullying'. Naughty Martin for saying 'shut up' but even so I can well understand your perception that there's some kind of campaign going on... all the slogans and the repeated exhortations to toe a party line. It's a mob!!!! The Hotchnerites on the march. Bet it's amusing to TG though.
UK viewer
Anonymous, oh no, I don't think she's needy based on that picture alone. Ever since she's been on the show it looks like she's going to crack any minute (can't speak for others, but to me it does). And I'm not implying that people who cry a lot are needy. Maybe needy wasn't the right word to use, but I just get the feeling like she doesn't have what it takes to be in the BAU. I get that she is human, they all are, but it doesn't look like tears are going to start flowing from their eyes any moment. Again, maybe it's just me, probably, it's only me who notices such things, I really don't know...all I know is that I don't like Seaver, and never will. Best to just make my peace with it :(
uhh..best to make peace with the fact that she's there for good and probably not going anywhere soon so it's better to just accept her and move on, even though blocking her out is going get more and more difficult with every passing episode.
Heyya, I over-analysed from your comment. Making peace with it sounds good. Hard to do though (eh, I'm a Scorpio, so I know).
Seaver was upset in her first episode, naturally, especially after her impulse to apologise put her in danger. But has she been tearful since? She seems sometimes a little lost. It must be a learning curve suddenly seeing all the gruesome stuff close up and then, procedurally, having to imagine the minds behind it. (Especially for someone with her past.)
As a viewer, I find it useful to have an intermediary there who remembers this stuff is terrible. It keeps perspective. But that's a personal reaction. If people watch CM and are interested in the methods and the analyses and all that, and strongly connected to the established team, perhaps her inexperience is a bane and an interruption. WIth luck, she'll get there.
Anonymous, are you kidding me? Check out the epiosdes since she's been there. She hasn't cried, but ah hell, she looks weepy like she is about to cry. Heyya isn't the only one that has said that; I think zagi and LaShawna and I am not sure who else. Well, now you can include me.
The thing about her being human, and rah rah, this is a place to be stopping and reassuring people "that everything is gonna be alright." Had this been the pilot and she was introduced along with the other team members, alright. But it is has been 6 seasons, and yeah, the majority of the viewers of the show are long-term viewers so we want to see development of characters that are strong and credible from the get, not some cadet that, ah man, the whole back story is weak and the going through every single step with this character is boring.
Thumbs down.
Heyya, the whole point of watching a show is for enjoyment. What I've seen repeated about this character is that people are just blocking her out, that she is useless, that she adds nothing to the show, etc. etc. Why as a viewer should you or anyone else put up with that?
I love how people paint this critique of this character as a "mob." Excuse me, but if people have an issue, some serious issues, with a character on a show are they just supposed to not say something. Have you ever thought that the fact that people are making repeated comments about this character is based on the fact that there are repeated problems with this character?
Just like the writing, which people have made repeated comments on, if this character continues to present issues, then people should make comments about that, or would people suggest not commenting on anything and simply saying that they saw the episode and move on.
I will continue to make comments on anything and everything that I find an issue with the show.
Carlos, Really, I think it's you guys who look all weepy!
Seaver has looked occasionally pensive. That's natural and it's right for a novice to listen, ask questions, find her way...
Here's a question. If Ashley had come in all guns blazing, knowing everything, battle scar on cheek, super-competent (or even with different colour hair), do you think she'd have got any better reception?
"this is a place to be stopping and reassuring people "that everything is gonna be alright." Had this been the pilot and she was introduced along with the other team members, alright. But it is has been 6 seasons, and yeah, the majority of the viewers of the show are long-term viewers so we want to see development of characters that are strong and credible from the get, not some cadet"
I strongly disagree with this. The world doesn't stop with one generation. New people come along (both to watch the show, and within the show, into the BAU) so 5th, 6th or 7th season is no argument. For the established characters, Seaver's naivete is going to have consequences. But Prentiss/Rossi must have thought it was worth while drawing her into the group. The writers must have something in mind. Do we want to give up before we find out what it is?
To be honest, I think part of the reason I am glad of her presence is that Hotchner probably wouldn't have chosen her. I'm a rebel against Hotch's rule and enjoy the characters who bring in more diversity. He would of course want someone to fit in from the get go. Any team leader would. Someone with the experience, who knows all the procedures by heart. There's room on CM for more than that and it's to the good of the show as whole that there is, IMO. Would it be so good without the alternative energy of Strauss, for example?
UK viewer
PS though it's interesting. Hotch presumably wouldn't have chosen to take Seaver onto the team but he's shown no reaction against her, not even a raised eyebrow. Have there even been any scenes between the two?
Where is Hotch's head these days??? To that extent, you folk are perhaps rightly responsive to something coming loose at the centre. Interesting though...
UK viewer
Lysa, I hear you and I agree with your comment whole-heartedly. Viewers must not have to block out certain characters, but every time she opens her mouth, I feel like slapping her. I'm sorry if this is rude, but that's how I feel. I'm just tired of getting all worked up and annoyed at everything she says and does. During her 1st two episodes, I literally cringed when she was in a scene. I love CM and don't want my enjoyment of the show to be ruined by this character, because as much as I despise her, I love the others. It's just easier to pretend like she's non-existent. It's actually easier to see the show that way.
People on various threads have been expressing their opinions on her and most of them are negative. But the CBS people just won't listen. I still hope they come to their senses and give us what we want. Season 7 can be the best ever, just bring back JJ and Emily. And get rid of Seaver. Gosh, I've said this so many times I'm starting to sound like a broken record. Not repeating it again.
Sometimes pensive look.. dude, rewind the taoe, she looks like she is going to cry and like a deer that has been caught in highlights.
Ed Bernero wanted this character on the show, that is why all of the characters are dancing around this one to make it seem like Ed's idea was a good one.
The fact is that the number of old viewers far outweighs new viewers. The question is if the old viewers will want to stick this cadet rookie thing out for a long period of time. If this goes on like this, I know what my answer is, CBS and CM will just have to see how this all pans out for them if they continue with this character.
Hi again Carlos,
I didn't know that. I like Ed Bernero. Good writer. For my money, the best on CM. So even if we don't know fully what the idea is yet, I'm happy to trust him through to finding out more.
Gotta go now. But it's good to have an exchange of views, not to all think the same thing.
Heyya, I know what you are saying. It is like rinse, lather and repeat. Damn, yesterday, someone photoshopped a picture of Seaver on a spray bottle and called the product "Seaver be gone" and on the bottle it says "Not enjoying Criminal Minds because of Seaver? Then spray this specifically designed compound and watch the brainless FBI agent vacate your TV! Active ingredients: No intelligence or complete moron, idiot writers, no common sense, acting skills not required."
Heyya, it was placed right there for CBS to see. At first I was laughing, but then I thought, damn, this is crazy, this is a character on a show that always had such a great track record with characters. Yeah, not everybody vibes with all of the characters, but this character, like I said is just hella bad and that sentiment seems like it is growing beyond me, you and this forum. But like I said, I know where I stand if things don't change writing and character wise. All I can do is what is best for me like all you can do is what is best for you.
Ha ha.. Anonymous, lol, casting the Bernero life vest at this point is probably not a good idea right now, but anyway, check you out.
Oh, and only cause I can feel it brewing, the fake product is an extension of what people, at least the person who created it and those who commented on it, feel about the character. More than that, I see it as their frustration rising to the surface. Anyway, it is an opinion about a fictional character and the acting of the actress that portrays her and the last time I checked that isn't off tune to to critique Hollywood stuff like writing and acting. You may not like what people have to say, or the style in which they say it, but that's what it is. Again, maybe you don't vibe with the spray bottle way of expressing an opinion, a review, but people have different ways of expressing stuff. Like or don't like, it is what people feel and one way or the other they are going to get that feeling out there.
Heyya, I hope you didn't feel as if I were trying to pressure you to speak out with regard to your issues with the Seaver. I completely understand and share your frustration. At this point, all that can be shared is one's opinion about the episode and each individual character's role in those episodes. If there is a issue with the Seaver character in an episode, I will say so, but not expecting that anything will change with regard to steering this show back to a place where it had strong and credible characters.
It is more than abundantly clear that CBS, and for that matter CM, care little it at all what people are repeating here and elsewhere. It is apparent that we are speaking to a wall, or better yet, a computer screen. As Carlos said, it will come down to individual choices people make about whether to continue watching or not. I don't know where I will eventually fall within that continum, although I strongly suspect that I will soon know.
Please accept my apology if I in anyway caused you any additional stress.
Lysa, no apology needed! You didn't pressurize me to express my issues with this character at all. No worries :)It actually feels good letting all the frustration out.
Basically CBS and CM don't respect viewer concerns about anything, turn around and insert flat-lined characters that make no sense, well, then I am not going to care either. Once Prentiss is out I am swicthing off not because I think that my switching off will make any sort of significant dent, it won't, but because I am tired of being disrespected by CBS and CM and in turn me giving them my time and input. If they should ever give an "F" an right what they haved wronged, then I'll come back for the sake of the show that once truly grabbed me. If not, then, whatever, I'll be done and I'll be out.
Even though I don't like Seaver in any way, I feel rather bad for RN - it's got to suck knowing so many fans of the show you're on hate your character to the core. It's a job, yeah, but in acting - especially if you're passionate about it - you put some of your self into the character you play. So it wouldn't be easy to not feel like the hatred's directed at you personally, even though it isn't.
Still hate Seaver though.
Heyya, thank you for answering back. I'm glad that you did not feel pressured by my comment to you.
Since we talk about Seaver again:I don`t mind her asking even stupid questions all the time. I would have been more annoyed with the character if she had come into the team as a all-knowing super profiler even though she still is a cadet or a rookie. That would have been an offense to the characters who have been with the BAU for many years.
I don´t like however that the writers somehow play the pity ploy with Seaver to get the viewers to like her. Serial killer dad, hints at cutting herself or eating disorder, that is too much drama for my taste. I am not a fan of too much personal drama stuff for any of the characters.
As for Rossi and Seaver. I love Rossi. He and Morgan are my favorite characters on the show. That`s why I hope not all of Rossi`s future story lines will be connected to Seaver. I want Rossi`s story lines to be about Rossi.
To the people who said , Hotch would never have chosen Seaver for the team. Why did he accept her then? He could have rejected her , but still she is there and he even allows her to be part of the team delivering the profile to the local detectives.
My biggest concern about Seaver is that the team does not need 6 profilers. And if Prentiss is back in season 7 they are 6 profilers. There is hardly enough to do for all the characters most of the time already. So I really hope Seaver will be asking questions and studying for a very long time and not become a full fledged profiler any time soon.
If Prentiss comes back, then Seaver should go and they should look at filling the position that JJ left on the team because I am sick to death of seeing Garcia and sometimes Hotch presenting the cases, also, Hotch staying at the police station doing Media Liaison stuff is pathetic!
This team obviously needs a Media Liaison. Would love to see AJ Cook come back for that, but if not, then they need to move on and get someone else to do that.
Plus, I don't trust that they won't try and make Seaver into some profiler, they already have her doing that stuff. As for the asking dumb questions thing, I really don't have the patience for that. The show has 42 minutes to get a story going not taking time for dumb questions.
Let me amend what I said, Seaver should go regardless even if Prentiss doesn't come back. They should write a role for a credible character and fill teh Media Liaison position.
people, lets not feel bad about RN. The criticism goes with the acting! Also, why should I feel bad for a woman who is beautiful, used to be a model, and gets steady jobs in tv and MOVIES, HIGH PROFILE MOVIES TOO(GI JOE, CONAN). She has a steady income. She has stuff lined up. She's pretty but she's got nothing on Aj or Paget or the rest of team's characters or acting ability. Rachel Nichols is terrible, flat actress blessed with attractive looks and a sweet nature. Now please get off the show.
And check out the youtube video someone took the time to do called THe Inside/Criminal Minds. a comparision and contrast between RN's two characters on the shows. Notice anything similar?
I also agree with the overwhelming majority that Seaver is a terrible adition to the team and is killing the show! And it doesnt matter who plays her becuase the character doesnt make sense. The only difference would be that they could have gotten a less annoying actress to play her who can actually hold the viewer's attention span without us gritting our teeth...
Why in the hell should the show be dumbed down to accommodate
some Bernero character protege? Ship this character off to the spin-off if it is that great, hell, looks like the spin-off could use all the help it can get now, just don't further dumb down CM for the sake of this ridiculous character.
Yes, ship this character off to the spin-off but don't dumb down CM to keep this character on there. Besides, if RN is such a fabulous actress like some claim, then she should be working with Oscar winners like Whittaker. Her fabulous acting then would compliment those of the Oscar winner.
Ship the character off to the spin-off, write the character off, kill the character off, I don't care, I just want this character erased from the CM map come season 7. Haven't CM viewers taken their fair share of blow thanks to CBS? Enough already!
I applaud the people here that is willing to give the new girl a chance.
Yes there is more negative opinions of her, but that is because the negativity always shines more through, and the unsatisfied people is also always those that keep on nacking about this.
I fid it quite selfish of those people that don't like her, keep on and on about how they don't like her. While there is actually people that do enjoy this character, and want to give her a chance. But can't get through because of all the hostility towards her.
I am definitely giving her a chance, she is a regular cast member, and i know the writers will give her a great storyline on this show.
Caroline, please tell us why you think she is such a great new edition to the show becuase no one else can. They just accuse us of hating and not giving a chance but we have listed MULTIPLE resons as to why she does not belong on the show with THE ELITE BAU TEAM.
So please, tell us exactly what you think she adds to the show.
Thank you
I meant new addition...not edition.
Caroline said: "I am definitely giving her a chance"...
The problem is, the chance the Seaver character will be getting will almost necessarily result in further dumbing down of and out-of-character actions on the part of the other BAU team members. Because as the character is written now, a fresh FBI Academy graduate, the only credible character development will be in the direction of being mentored/guided/assisted by the other team members. Which will further slow down the profiling back-&-forth that highlights the expertise of this so-called elite unit. As many have said on this forum, the BAU is not a training ground & the viewers don't watch CM to see "Profiling 101." Even TPTB saw the weakness of Seaver's qualifications because they made the fresh graduate in the spin-off (in the episode where the spin-off team was introduced) an SSA by the time that the spin-off premiered. The only alternative seems to be Seaver falling into a time machine & later emerging with years of experience & skills behind her. (She'd possibly be more self-possessed by then too.) But that would be a different kind of show.
two cents
why should i tell you. You already made up your mind about her and on top of that you think Nichols is a bad actress.
And for your information she must be a good actress she has been in more movies the the wholse CM cast. You just don't like her because you think she is a bad actree
two cents
why should i tell you. You already made up your mind about her and on top of that you think Nichols is a bad actress.
And for your information she must be a good actress she has been in more movies the the wholse CM cast. You just don't like her because you think she is a bad actrees
Well, I had some time to think about Seaver and all the dislike she earns lately.
I must admit that the conception of her character has been far from fitting with the claims for the team, which were so often mentioned. I think it was also not the greatest of ideas to choose an actress who is that close to the look of AJ.
But I honestly think all of this could have been compensated by a good and consistend story-writing. If the cases were good written (what they are actually not) and the build of tension in an episode was even and increasing (what the show actually totally lacks of), it would have been able to let Seaver go along with the team as an observing and learning rookie/cadet and give her the possibility to develop as a character and teammate.
But as the realationship of the team and the distribution of tasks amongst them seems totally disordered even without her, her chances of being accepted and integrated are on the lowest level, because of this constitution every little action of her seems absolutely nonsense and displaced. How shall the team manage an new teammate (unfortunately with the lowest level of experience), if they aren't able to reorganise in general. At this point Seaver gets hit by a phenomenon that can be noticed (in real life too) whereever an intense liked teammate HAD to leave: whoever follows after him or her steps into big footsteps and shall work up to a lot of expectations. And at this point of unwanted replacement the newbie can try whatever he or she wants - he can't fill the void the predecessor left. And earn a lot of displeasure that would not have occoured that much if he or she would have joined a harmonizing team.
That's my opinion so far. I hope I could express what was on my mind :)
Cassandra said..
"If Prentiss comes back, then Seaver should go and they should look at filling the position that JJ left on the team because I am sick to death of seeing Garcia and sometimes Hotch presenting the cases, also, Hotch staying at the police station doing Media Liaison stuff is pathetic!"
I don`t mind Hotch sometimes presenting the cases and Hotch staying at the police station doing Media Liaison stuff. He was the one who did not want to hire someone to replace JJ, so it is only fair that he does most of her job.
I'll have a crack at saying what Ashley brings or what she might be able to bring in the future/why her presence on the show makes sense:
1. Following procedure and protocol, Seaver doesn't belong in the BAU. So clearly she's not there by procedure and protocol. She's not a by-the-book appointment. To me, she fits Rossi's sorrowful relationship to the past, the way he kind of overinvests in people. You remember when she's being introduced in the bullpen and Reid says 'Rossi, you solved that case' [Seaver's dad's case]. Rossi immediately says, 'Hotch was also on that team'. Rossi's not usually a modest chap. Reid's not usually an inaccurate guy. It's a deflection. I think there's something in that past that matters enough to Rossi that he wanted to get the woman on the team. Pure speculation. The fact that Seaver doesn't altogether belong in terms of experience, wouldn't stop Rossi going ahead with the idea. He's not that guy. Any hoo, that's one motivation for her being on the team.
2. They spend their working lives imagining the minds of the killers they pursue. Seaver has got experiences that can help. She might not know how much or little she knows, but it's there. I get that a lot of people are simply impatient of this aspect of the character's past but it's a given and it stands. She's there because she might add something to the range of enquiry. Same as tech girl. Same as geek. Same as Kick Doors Down guy. etc
3. They used to have a susceptible character in Reid, but Reid's done a lot of growing up. In simple tonal range and plot terms, the show had a space in its heart for a vulnerable team member. She's It. Emotional susceptibility is a talent, people, or at least it's not good if you start to lose it. Maybe in the callous world of serial killers, what an untried girl like Seavers might feel is hard information that can be put to work.
4. Two wrongs do not make a right, but I have to ask, how well does (the wonderful) Garcia fit into the standard FBI model, either in character terms, training or frankly anything.
5. How far off finishing her training is Ashley? It's not like she was working in a coffee shop. She's part-way inducted into the process, enough to know that she has to learn and there's plenty of evidence that she's keen to do that (not just the book study, also the questions).
6. The show can't stagnate.
7. 'Criminal Minds is a family'. I seem to remember reading that. It's thematically good the way this 'daughter' is the child of a serial killer. At the moral/imaginative level, it's important for the team to believe that good can grow out of bad.
8. Freud would have a field day. All that patricidal stuff - except daughters aren't supposed to want grow up to join the FBI and hunt down their 'daddies'. We're supposed to want to supplant mummy. Psychologically, is she there to look for her father or to fight him?
I'm running out of steam. Anyone who starts talking about Freud, is running out of steam!! But you don't have to think hard to come up with justifications for her presence. The question that remains is how involving this character will be and we simply haven't seen enough of her to be able to tell. She might seem intrusive to some here, but really, she's hardly said a telling word.
Sure, when Rossi came in, he came in strong and was immediately great. I had loved Gideon but Joe is Joe. As soon as I saw his Rossi, I was delighted the old guy had gone. It's not like that with JJ/Seaver. But then, it's fair to say that most people weren't keen on Rossi back in the day (incredibly). There was a stink about him on the fora and in some ways I think those old-complainers are authors of this new character's more graduated entry into the show. The writers were perhaps wary of creating someone too grand and great for fear of a backlash.
Uh-oh!
Sorry for the long post (above). Didn't realise it was that long. Boring git!
Also, sorry for not signing.
UK viewer
aka boring git
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