Criminal Minds: Please use this thread for comments and spoilers about Criminal Minds' episode "Doubt" starring Thomas Gibson, Shemar Moore, Kirsten Vangsness, Paget Brewster, A.J. Cook, Matthew Gray Gubler and Mandy Patinkin. Written by Chris Mundy. Directed by Gloria Muzio. Guest starring: Vince Grant, Anthony Diaz-Perez, Tyler Poelle, Angela Oh, Christina Haag, Amanda MacDonald, Kim Estes, Alexa Alemanni, Cole Moira Price, Elizabeth Hendrickson, Tori White, Shelly Cole,and Shawn Michael Patrick.
*** Screencaps and episode info are in separate posts below this one****
***Here is the original spoiler page for the episode*****
288 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 288 of 288I knew there was going to be something going on with that girl from the beginning. It was pretty obvious esp when they busted the security guard so quickly, but I think they did a decent job with the episode considering the fact that they had to kinda improvise due to Mandy.
I think the quotes def need to come back. I know it's only a small thing but....it was something unique to CM....
I've just re-watched the ep again...for the 4th time...and still not enough Reid moments! Thank heaven for the rewind button!!!
Overall last night's episode was pretty good. It wasn't as good as last season's season premiere but they had a few things thrown at them this time. I wonder if Gideon really goes through with it. I have to wonder if they are just leading us down a garden path. I am so excited for next week.
Lin,
I agree, I like our episodic formula. I do enjoy just a little carry over and I enjoy the once in a while 2 parter, but in general like it episodic. CSI used to be episodic and they started taking this really heavy soap opera path, kind of annoys me.
Otherwise I'm just really surprised to see people saying the guest stars weren't good on this episode. I think Tubbs did a great job as did the police guy. The teenagers were kind of sad though. And Strauss..well I hate her, and I think that because I hate her makes her an excellent actress.
lee :)
It was interesting how this episode worked with Mandy's departure. Having this episode already filmed provided a good foundation to begin to explain the situation. And poor Hotch! I hope he gets his credentials back ASAP! I'm really looking forward to next week and the rest of the season because CM's writers and actors are FANTASTIC!
Sorry for the double post, but I wanted to add that the episode didn't particularly enthrall me. As I said, I was pleased with how they intersected this episode with the Mandy situation, but the episode itself wasn't too thrilling. Though, I have to say that having the girl kill someone to draw out the killer to kill HER (wow, is that a complicated sentence) was a very interesting idea. The profile was probably "right" all along when the other guy (can't remember who) said it wasn't. But even having the profile didn't lead the team to the absolute truth of what had happened. And I also thought that it was sweet of Reid to go rushing to J.J.'s aid when the girl slapped her. I don't know that they really would or should date, but it's nice that they care about each other. And I do see Reid going to look for Gideon. If not Reid, I would have thought Hotch, but Reid is the the perfect guy for the job. I wonder how it will all go down ... though I don't see Gideon killing himself.
JJ getting slapped was a shocker to me. Gideon's intensity in reciting the letter got to me. I thought the whole episode was very good and lord help Reid next week because I think he is going to find a very dead mentor.
We loved it in our house. It held your attention the whole way through and the Gideon parts were terrific. I like how they worked it in. We thought it was pure genius.
I absolutely love this show! I can't imagine the show without Gideon! My initial thought was that with the letter and then the gun...that he was going to kill himself...like another poster said...he doesn't seem like the type to retire, however, I just don't see that! I'm hoping he was holding his gun in remembrance prior to turning it in before he leaves. That would also leave him available to possibly call and/or seek out advice from in the future??? Maybe...I do hope they develop Reid's character more...I adore how quirky cool he is!!! It should be an interesting season!
I rewatched it early this afternoon and I liked it more the second time around.
I think Prentiss is going to do the right and go up against Strauss. I was really surprised that Hotch was suspended. Doesn't this woman have to answer to anyone? Can she do anything she wants without any facts to back it up with?
No quotes really did suck. I agree with everyone that said that.I wonder what the reason was to do that.
I am ready for the rest of the season now. Bring it on!
This is toooo funny. I was just called by a major news outlet that wanted a quote from me on what I thought of the episode last night. They called me because of the blog. Now what did they think I would say? Before I answered their question I turned it on them and asked them what they thought of the episode? Hah! The reporter did not watch it. I told her to call me back for my quote when she had. Lame. Lame. Lame!
I know we are SUPPOSED to hate Strass and she's doing all the right things to make us hate her. However, I do think it is time to expose what this is really all about. There has to be a reason she's after his job. He's not above her, so he's no threat--unless she see's him as competition for the Head of the FBI job which has been aluded to as Hotch's ultimate goal and she's trying to knock out any future competion early.
Maybe he did something years ago that slowed her career (turned her in for something she screwed up?)and she's vendictive.
I don't know, but I think it's time to let us in on the real issue, otherwise it will get boring if she's just a witch with a "B".
I would like somebody to give us some insight into possible reasons Strauss is after Hotchner. It really makes no sense. Gideon is the one that constantly is screwing up so why is Hotchner being held responsible for it?
Also, even though it is obvious that Gideon has gone over the edge why is he going to let Reid be the one to find him? He must care deeply about Reid because I think the letter is to him. Why put Reid through that?
One of the things I really liked about the first encounter with Strauss was that Hotchner snapped off his lines so perfectly. He said "Yes, Ma'am" and the subtext clearly, "Kiss my a**, you arrogant b**ch." I missed that from this episode. He seemed a little less sure of himself. Maybe in keeping with the theme and title of the episode ... hmmm.
I was suprised to see that they edited Doubt to include Gideon's breakdown. I like the way it flowed into season 3, and I enjoyed the edits. I felt Gideon's breaking down and repetitive letter writing and commentary was a bit too much and took up too much of the episode. Or rather took away from the episode. I have to wonder what the episode was like and how much more indepth it was before the edits. I'm sure their would have been more cast interaction. I was suprised to see the commercials for next week and that Gideon will still be a focus. I think Reid is the one who finds the letter. He's calling out for him in the previews. Actually I think Morgan and Reid find it and they are probably both looking for him.
Totally off that subject - did anyone else notice when Prentiss was speaking with Strauss her hair looked odd? I think she got it cut but they had to add extensions to have it fit in with the rest of the episode. Not that that matters at all. I tend to notice these things.
I'm so happy they're back!
I missed the hair. Evidently I missed tons! I am going to go rewatch it and then come back and comment on the episode.
Just seen and I liked it. OK, it was difficult to rework an episode that was supposed to appear at at different time and in a different story, but I thought it worked well.
And yay! for Silversun Pickups making an appearance.
Hmm, letter is to Reid and Gideon will kill himself, I think. He said "Don't be scared" - that's what you say to a child or to someone you are a parent figure to. And if he just left, he knew Reid would try to find him. He is trying to justify what he is going to do to Reid by letting him find his body.
Of course, I am probably wrong *G*
And Hotch rocked. He always does.
I thought JJ was spit on, not slapped. And yes Anon, I did notice that Emily's hair was kinda...big maybe. Apparently I am the only one in this group that could give or take the quotes. They don't do anything for me so I did not miss them.
Lee
Lee - J.J. was spit on by the roommatre of the victim. Afterwards, Redi runs to her rescue and chastizes the police officer for not maintaining control of the scene.
Now that I have gone back and watched the promo for next week (my tivo cut off last night) on cbs.com, it does look like Reid goes looking for Gideon. *sigh* I really do hope Gideon leaves and doesn't off himself for Reid to find.
Also, I noticed a lot of people feeling that the character of Gideon wouldn't kill himself but we were told in the pilot that he has a history of at least one major depressive episode. I think it is consistent to think that someone with a history of clinical severe depression would be at risk for suicide. That being said, I really really hope the writer don't kill him just because of the ripple effects it would have on the other characters. Then again, that kind of drama does make for good TV a lot of times....
It looks from the preview of next week that Reid is the one to go to the cabin (he seems the most worried about Gideon's dissapearance). No way he traumatizes Reid by killing himself.
I agree that tv character death can make for good tv but these jobs require lots of assessments by psychological professionals. Gideon would have to have gone through sessions following's Sarah's death. I think they would have picked up on suicial tendencies.
I finally got to watch the episode and I loved it. I thought the fade ins to Gideon and back were perfectly orchestrated. There isn't anything about the episode that I didn't like.
The storyline of Hotchner and Strauss is moving along. Prentiss is showing a reasonable amount of discomfort with talking to the woman.
Gideon has melted down to goo but is taking the time to try to help Reid get through what he about to find in the cabin.
The case was interesting but maybe I was easily mislead because it took me awhile to catch on.
Reid, JJ and Morgan seemed centered and balanced.
I loved it. So glad the season has started.
I miss the quotes too, but I'm guessing that they only changed the way they do the quotes due to the unique problems this particular episode presented them. Hopefully once the whole Jason Gideon thing gets resolved they will revert back to the old routine and put the quotes back in where they belong.
With regard to the actress playing Strauss, I really like HER, it's the character that I don't understand or see the need for. The actress Jayne Atkinson was great on 24! I agree with a previous poster that said it's because we all hate her so much that proves how good an actress she really is. For me it was just the lines she had to say that didn't work, not how she said them.
If they do actually have Jason go off into the sunset, I don't think that it would necessarily mean that they are doing it for the sole purpose of leaving the door open for Mandy to come back in the future. However it is always highly recommended that one keep their options open. For me, even if Mandy never makes another appearance on the show, I just don't want my favorite character to go out that way.
Mark my words! Gideon kills himself and the only question is who finds his body. My guess is that it will be Reid.
I guess they needed to spread this out over two episodes for the sake of the ratings or it could be that they just had way too much footage to put into one episode.
I would love for the original to be in the season three dvds. That would be great. Maybe they can also include a recorded apology from Mandy to all the fans of the show for the f-ing he gave us. That would be cool too.
I really enjoyed having the CM gang back and I am looking forward to a great season and meeting Rossi.
Someone said that only cowards kill themselves but mentally ill people commit suicide everyday. I think Gideon is at that point. He is past despair in his own mind.
I loved it!
I loved it! Loved it! I thought it was great and I am so glad the new season has finally started.
I think Gideon just leaves. I think Bernero is smart enough to leave the door open for Mandy to come back like he did when Chicago Hope was in trouble with their ratings.
I'm so happy to have the show back and to have original episodes again. It's great.
Gideon worked a case while he was having a nervous breakdown. That is hard to believe even for tv. He is so torn up by Sara's death but she was not the woman in the cabin with him during Fisher King, One. He said he had not seen her in years. Okay so maybe she was a friend and he felt guilty. Gideon has always felt guilty about everything. He never tried to right the situations but he did feel guilt. Why would he all of a sudden kill himself?
I like the story with Hotch and I think it is going to be one of our better stories. Next week's promo looks really great. I would give the episode an A-.
There was really so little of Hotch or Garcia in this episode that it must have felt like a vacation for Thomas and Kirsten. That is really my only complaints about this episode.
I thought they spliced the stories together nicely. Someone said that it was not seemless. No but how could it have been. I liked it. I do think he kills himself. The letter is for Reid. His last bit of compassion and reason showing through his darkness.
I'm betting they're not killing Gideon. Because it's just not like him to do such a thing. And he wouldn't set it up so that Reid could find him: that would destroy him, and he should know that.
The episode on the whole wasn't as good as i'd hoped, but given that this was a last-minute do-over it's pretty good. But all of the other characters were barely in it, or so it seems. I like what they're doing with Hotch - his prosecutor line was brilliant as well as him taking the blame for what happened. And Pretiss evaded Madame Strauss' questions very well.
Ohio,
An experienced profiler like Gideon could have easily hid suicidal tendencies from a therpaist. There is no doubt in my mind that if Gideon DID want to kill himself he wouldn't be clear headed when he did it. He is the type of person who would have decided he was just done living.
Lee
To comment on AM's stupid "those stab wounds wouldn't be lethal" comment... That your girlfriend is supposedly a doctor and you're a "first responder", doesn't mean you know anything about traumatic injuries. People can die of stab or small caliber gunshot wounds that low in the abdomen easily if major arteries (ie. abdominal aorta, iliacs, etc) are severed. It's not the "stomach" they were stabbed in, that's actually fairly well protected by your rib cage. Please try not to be so pompous when you're talking about something you have no idea about. This coming from a trauma surgeon who watched a gang banger bleed to death internally like this within minutes just last week. People like you perpetuate the fallacy that medicine and first aid can save everyone.
To comment on AM's stupid "those stab wounds wouldn't be lethal" comment...
Anon, please keep your comments civil. Just because you disagree with AM's comment is no reason to call her stupid.
One of the few things we ask for on the blog is for people to be civil to one another. So, in future, please conduct yourself accordingly.
Lee
You think so? I know that these people are psych experts and can hidea lot but considering all they go through and the number of department evaluations they have to go through as well as the close working relationship with coworkers, I'd think someone would notice.
Then again, I have totally been off on plot lines so who knows. I guess only next Wednesday will tell.
I think his spiral downwards was slow and over time. I think he just fell in am emotional hole.
I liked the episode.
It is interesting that even if Mandy had not left we were probably at some point going to have to deal with Gideon's mental problems. Really all this did was speed it up and change the outcome. Part of the allure of the Gideon character for me was always his fragile brilliance. You knew he was struggling but he was so smart and so experienced. Gideon was a great character. The writers did such a great job creating him and I trust that however they end him will be equally wonderful.
On the lack of quotes issue: what about this . . . since this episode was kind of a flashack from Gideon's tortured perspective, maybe they decided to omit them for this one episode. I can't explain it well, but Ill give it a try. Since this wasn't a normal case-driven episode, but more like a memory Gideon is having while writing his letter, perhaps including the quotes, oh heck, I don't know!
I too love the quotes and hope they are back next week.
If Gideon decides to kill himself that would be a total surprise and shock to me. The letter just didn't sound like a suicide note to me. I think it was more of letter explaining to Reid why he is leaving him so that Reid doesn't feel like he has been abandoned by his father again. Gideon did not have a real father and son relationship with his own biological son but he had a fatherly relationship with Reid.
I think that whether or not Gideon dies or leaves the whole team is going to grieve the loss. Hotchner and Gideon were very close. Reid will be devastated either way it goes down. Garcia and JJ thought a lot of him and Prentiss may not care. Morgan took awhile to warm to Gideon and trust him but then he respected him and he will grieve as well. Anyway it happens is going to be difficult for all of them.
Is the reason the title of the episode is "Doubt" because they have doubts as to who the real unsub was?
It was named "Doubt" before the Gideon part was added so that has nothing to do with it.
Frances Coleman
Great point!I was so focus on would he or wouldn't he that I never thought about writing the letter to Reid to minimize the abandonment issue. I'd like to think he might keep in touch with Reid in the future. Nothing big. Maybe just a birthday card or sending him a book he knows Reid would like. I have a feeling this will only be in the fanfic world.
This was such a good season opener. I love how they combined Gideon's narration with the action taking place. And the ending! It was so shocking!! I can't wait for the next episode. The preview looked amazing.
I was very pleased to see Prentiss shutting the Strauss woman down. Prentiss has such strength. She is a great character. I can't imagine what Strauss' problem with Hotch is. What is she after?
I thought about the episode all day and I have no idea what the supervisor's problem is with Hotch. Someone suggested that it is Prentiss' mom trying to get her a promotion but if memory serves me the Ambassador did not have very much power left at all and also did not seem that pleased that the BAU is where Prentiss wanted to be so I have ruled her out as a motive. One thing I have considered is that Hotch is ambitious and he is talented. Maybe she fears that he is a treat to her job or he did piss off that Congresswomen a few episodes back and maybe she is behind this.
Gideon has to die and that is sad but if the character doesn't end then all the Patinkin fans will forever wonder if he is coming back and I don't think that would ever happen. They need fans to like Rossi and some fans might not do that if they feel they are being disloyal to Gideon. Gideon has to cease to exist so the show can take it's next steps.
Reid has so much experience dealing with mental illness because of his mom and his job that I think he will actually understand what happened to cause Gideon to do this better than the rest of them will but I think he will feel true pain.
I was really proud of the show last night. It could have been a terrible bomb given all the things that lead up to the edits but they pulled it out and it was good.
I say bravo to the cast and crew. You are simply perfect and I cannot wait to see what else you have for us. Thanks.
As for what I think of Gideon's letter and how he leaves...
I see Gideon and the type of person who would go off into seclusion, somewhere he cannot be found and somewhere he will not see many people. Profiling is his life. No matter where he goes, he will always profile people. It is possible he'd kill himself but I think he cares to much about how those who care about him feel to do that to himself. He would especially care about the person who he expects to find him. But if he's gone off the deep end, maybe he would ignore those concerns.
The letter is unlikely to Hotch because he refers to Hotch in the letter. That would be odd, but there are always continuity issues with TV. It may be for his son but I also believe that is unlikely because he doesn't seem to be close to his son. Unless, that phone call back in season 1 (I think) started repairing their relationship. I think Reid or Morgan are more likely. Reid would be obvious because they are close but Reid is "fragile" so I don't think Gideon would put this on Reid . Morgan is less obvious but he may be the one who would go check up on someone before anyone else. He is a "tattler" :)
I'm a little confused about the timing of this episode in relation to the next episode and the season 2 finale. The letter starts out by telling the reader to remember the very first case after Sara, the one at the college. By qualifying which case, the letter seemed to imply there had been more cases after that one. If it is the only case they did between the finale and the letter writing scenes, the first line(s) of the letter would have been sufficient. The line I'm referring to is when he says he felt getting right back to work and dealing with her death later. The closing of the letter then says something along the point of this college case being the last straw to drive Gideon to this point. This part of the letter leads me to believe that there has been only one case. Maybe the next episode will clear this up for me.
Back to Gideon's leaving. The way Gideon holds his gun at the end led me to believe he was quitting and going away (not killing himself). It might have been his service weapon that he would be leaving with the letter. I think he was sorry to be letting down his team, especially the team member he left the letter to. In this case, I lean towards Reid (or Hotch if you ignore the reference to Hotch in the letter) being the letter's intended recipient.
So after re-watching the episode...I still really like the episode, I still have no clue what they are planning for Gideon's departure, and I cannot wait until next weeks episode (as usual).
I don't think Prentiss' mom would be in with Strauss to out Hotch. Obviously Strauss has something against Hotch and hopefully they will clarify it.
Lee, I didn't think about the option of Gideon going out in the line of duty not being offered,but it makes sense that it wouldn't be a possibility becuase that would make Gideon a hero - while the character is a hero, getting to play that out, the satisfaction of wrapping your character up noblely, is something MP probably doesn't deserve. No offense intended to his fans.
Keith -- you talked about the episode being a soap opera about Gideon, I disagree. I think the underlying theme is what every police officer, investigator, FBI agent, whatever branch of law enforcement must go through in the difficult cases -- doubt. Is this truly the person? Am I doing the right thing? What if we arrest the wrong person allowing the criminal to move on to another community to continue the crimes? The heavy psychological burden was the theme and I thought they did it all brilliantly.
B+ for the episode.
The episode left me with more quesions than the cliffhanger in the season finale.
I hate the Mandy is going and we are losing Gideon. It sucks.
Hotch is ambitious and wants to move up in the FBI. Could Strauss see him as a future threat to her? Or perhaps he is a threat to someone she wants to advance? I hate the fact she suspended him at the end of the epi.
There are too many comments to read so I am just going to write what I thought about the episode. I hope that is ok.
I liked it. It was sad for me since I am a Mandy lover but I also like the show. I think I will continue to watch it when he is gone. It depends on whether the stories stay fresh and exciting.
I think they are going to have Gideon take his own life and I am not as upset about that as I thought I might be. The actor is not the character.
Has anyone considered that the letter he wrote was to the fans? Mandy has hinted that the violence on the show was too much for him. Gideon talks about the same thing.
Could we have secretly have gotten our explaination on why Mandy left?
Zara: That is an interesting notion. Did Ed Bernero write Mandy's apology to the fans and use it for Gideon? Ed is very loyal to us fans and he is very smart. Maybe Ed gave us what Mandy wasn't willing or able to. If so then thank you Ed.
I loved the episode. I loved having a new episode and I did not think there were really any problems with it. Some minor editing but who cares under the circumstances.
Zara,
I don't think I even understand what you mean by the letter is for the fans. Can you elaborate. I mean, how would that work? Or did you just mean that him saying those things out loud was meant for us and us alone. Sorry this is confusing to me.
Debbie,
I do agree that MP doesn't deserve to be a hero but I think there are many people who would disagree adn say the character should have nothing to do with the actors personality, thats why it is called acting. I just don't want him to come back. Thats all.
Lee
No quotes in the epi was kinda a bummer. My favorite lines:
Prentiss: You are the best
Garcia: Word
We so need more Garcia. I'm excited she'll have some highlight episodes this season.
Lee,
Gideon spoke of the violence being too much for him and that he just could not do it anymore. He was able to be effective.
Mandy hinted at the same things during the few interviews he has given, like the one in Monte Carlo.
This could be Ed's way of letting Mandy explain and apologize. Most of my friends think this is more than a possibility since Ed is such a loyal person to the fans of the show.
I hope you have a better understanding of what I was saying now.
I was wondering whether they planned for Prentiss to go in to taunt Tubbs, or if she really did just bring in a file. But they sure did take advantage of it, she hung around a lot longer than it actually took to drop off the file, and Gideon jumped right on her being pretty as soon as she closed the door. Kind of neat, usually JJ gets all the "pretty."
LoraLee
I've seen others saying that Gideon survived Boston he should be able to survive this, but someone who has a major depressive episode are at a higher risk of sufering another one, and Boston never "went away" it just faded into the background. After a second shock, where he now blames himself for three new deaths, I can easily see him falling into a severe depression again.
And I didn't catch it the first time, but Stacy and others are right, Gideon mentions Hotch by name, but he's using "you" to talk to the person he's writing the letter for, so it can't be Hotch.
LoraLee
Loralee: I was thinking the same thing. He never really recovered from his first mental nutty and then he had the trauma of Sarah's death.
Zara: My whole office was saying exactly what you said. We all think the note he was reading was for the fans of the show. A sorta third party apology that also worked well into the storyline.
I really liked the episode. I am impressed more and more by Paget's acting ability. She is impressive.
I am thrilled that the new season is here and I look forward to another great episode next week.
I think Gideon wrote the letter to his ex-wife. Whether she's alive or dead, I don't think it really matters; if she's dead, it's just as feasible to me that he's writing it to get it all off his chest and give himself some peace, and he doesn't care who actually finds it.
I'm doubtful about suicide; in spite of his depression he's not that type. He could have done it after Boston, but he kept going because he knew he still had this purpose. He came back to the BAU despite all the stuff that constantly destroyed him because he knew he could still save lives, and because maybe his peace of mind, his ability to sleep at night, wasn't as important as a helpless person who needed him (especially the children). Yeah, he's lost even more now, and he didn't beat Frank, but he cornered him; he made it so Frank can never hurt anyone else. And I think that does matter enough to him that he won't kill himself to get rid of the kind of pain he's lived with for so long, even if there's more now because Sarah was his friend. What about when Reid was kidnapped? If he'd died, Gideon would have blamed himself, just like Hotch blamed himself. (Gideon only seems to lose it over the dead ones.)
But I do think Gideon is the type to just vanish off the face of the earth, somewhere quiet where he can focus on gaining some things back and taking some time away from all the ickiness. That dude has some major healing to do :)
Zara I totally get what you are saying and its a very intelligent idea. I guess my question is who will the letter actually be for in teh show. Obviously it won't say "To the Fans" so that is where I was confused. I think you may be correct though, the symbolism screams louder than words.
Lee
The letter would be addressed to whoever finds him and they are meaningful to that person but they also serve when spoken by Mandy as somewhat of an explaination to the fans. Our writers are top notch and it bothered Ed that Mandy never apologized to the fans so I can easily see him slipping it in for us. Nobody is more fan friendly than Ed and he was not happy with how Mandy walked away.
Zara: If I did not explain that correctly please correct me.
I haven't commented yet on the episode. I liked the case. I liked seeing our young ones becoming more confident and assertive. I do not like the storyline with Hotch and the witch.
All in all it was a solid episode.
It was a good episode, but I really wish it hadn't been the premiere. it didn't feel like a premiere.
I agree with what someone else said that this isn't the kind of episode that brings in new viewers.
The writters were in an impossible possition. They have to deal with and actor leaving, to have an un-aired episode from last season, and to make everything work. They did a great job considering the situation. I just wish they would have been able to not have this as the first episode back.
As far as the lack of hotch and Reid i love the characters but understand why they did this.
As far as the ratings go new shows almost always drop in ratings in their second week and with how over promoted Bionic Woman was it will probably drop big time.
I just wish minds was doing a more new viewer friendly episode
Our show is back, our boy is back. Reid had a (too) short part, but he enlightened the screen...Gideon is going, Hotch is suffering, Prentiss too. The big game starts, the cliffhanger is bigger in this episode than it was at the end of season 2...
let's wait and see...
I've finished all my NAILS!!!
I agree with Evie, I think Bionic Woman will drop way off next week. Most of the talk I'm hearing about it is, "What the heck was that?" Also, this CM episode was kind of a strange puppy -- it was a new episode, but not exactly the season premiere. I think anyone who wasn't an involved fan was likely to be confused.
Zara, I love your idea about the apology to the fans. I can totally see Ed and the crew saying to themselves, "This is that MP should have said to the fans. Since he won't, put it in the script and have him read it." Apology by character proxy. But as Hemingway said, "Isn't it pretty to think so?"
I think the comment made by Zara about the letter Gideon was writing being 'for the fans' is quite an interesting one, and when looked again, is quite plausible.
Guess I'm going to rewatch the ep again....this will be number 6 now!!!
CM usually hires some pretty good people, in my opionion, but the police officer in this episode was not very good. A bit too stiff.
People keep mentioning that Mandy should have written an apolgoy note to his fans explaining why he left. Maybe he couldn't say more than he left due to "creative differences," which is what was already said. How would CBS react if one of their stars in a top rated show came out and told everyone he left because there is too much violence on the show and even though he has suggested for years toning the violence down, the network has not responded. That would not put CBS in a great position especially since early criticism of the show was that it was too violent. I am sure CBS made it clear when they let him out of his contract that it was not to be discussed. Gideon is a great character and Mandy did an exceptional job with the role. Both will be missed.
as most of you know i´m from germany, that´s why i was very sad, because they just started to show season 2!(of course i have seen season two already^^) but i´ve found a why to watch it! i was so excited about that episode!not only because of reid but also because gideon!and the big question is of course:for which person is the letter????i think it is for reid!i can´t wait to see the next episode!
(the original) gubes_girl (mel)
I just finished watching the episode and I was neither disppointed or happy with it. It it had been a middle of the season episode I would be writing that it was a good one. I expected more from the premiere but we had issues that prevented them from giving us a really exciting premiere episode.
I want more info on the Hotch story but I am assuming that will come in time. I loved seeing our team again. I am glad the show is back and I look forward to next wed.
When Mandy is gone then I am gone. If they had given him more scenes and air time he would not have left. I think they relugated him to the cheap seats in favor of the younger actors.
Hello CM Fans:)
I had wanted to post earlier but had not had the chance to, and was so pleased to see all the oppinions on here:)So I will probably be repeating a lot of what has already been said, but here it goes! First I would like to congradulate the cast and crew of CM for handeling this story with fairness and dignity, you all did a wonderful job and I'm sooooooo excited for season 3!!:)Secondly I would like to thank everyone on this Blog for well just being awesome! Now for the episode, I think is was a good episode but noe a great one. It seemed a little choppy at first but then eased into a good flow. The story line was great, creepy and shocking all at the same time. I missed seeing a lot of Hotch and Garcia though, they hardly had like 10 lines throughout the whole story, but I liked when Hotch said "I was a prosecuter, I can hold him up for days", that made me laugh. I'm hopping mad about Hotches suspension considering it was not his fault, and not just because it was Gideons but because in the situiation they were in he couldn't have acting any differently I think. But oh well, that makes a better story I guess. I think Prentiss is handeling it well and is resigning next epi because she is appauled about what happend with Hotch and dosn't want to be part of it!
With the whole Gideon commiting sucide, I hope they don't do it! I think it would be shocking and something they have not really done on TV thus far, but I think it will shatter so of the characters. Espically if he is leaving that letter for Reid. Reaid already has abondonment issues, with his father walking out, his mother being in the mental hospital, the kidnapp, and the drugs, that if he found the only father figure he knows dead in a cabin, he will never recover. That and the whole team will suffer and all be saying what if we could have sone something! But I trust the writters, and I agree with what has been said earlier that he was just setting his gun down and taking off never to be seen again. Plus Gideon wrote that having Hotch be suspended was the last straw was kind of funny, why didn't he just go in and tell that devil of a director that he was to blame then do whatever he is going to do. That would be the honourable thing to do! Oh, well thats my 2 cents, all in all I am just so happy to see CM back on and all of our beautiful cast and wonderful crew.
Sorry that was so long:)
I feel confident that we probably do have a winner at this point. I am going to ask two independent moderators to go through all the comments to eliminate the ones that did not meet the contest requirements and figure out who won. I am the only person that knows the number on the script so this is a double blind to make sure that all three of us come up with the correct winner. I will report the results as soon as we have all had time to work on the thread. Please continue to comment about the episode. The contest is only one reason to talk about an episode. :)
Jenn - Your reasoning on why Mandy hasn't said anything about why he left Criminal Minds is the exact same thing I have been thinking, especially after having seen the interview he gave in Monte Carlo last July. I don't think CBS would be too thrilled to have him reaffirm the critics remarks about the show being too violent. Since they were nice enough to let him out of his contract, it's only right that he not go around badmouthing the show in any way. So maybe his silence is strictly due to an agreement he made with CBS, and people should stop trying to make him speak out about it or demanding that he make some kind of public apology. Maybe if he actually did say what is really on his mind, it would actually be even more detrimental to the show's image and cause even more controversy, than having him just leave the show quietly.
The BAU team did a great job as always. I don't want Hotch to be in trouble and have to leave, though! I love how Reid jumped in there for JJ!!! I thought that was the sweetest!
Gonna miss Gideon... Big time... But at least he's going to be happy with whatever project he does next. That's the important thing!!!!!!!
I don't know what to think of this entire episode. I truly believe that Gideon is going to end up comitting suicide- and I feel so terrible for Reid as it seems that he is writing the letter to him! Reid just got over a drug addiction (well maybe- right?)... isn't this just going to hurt Reid more? I want to hurt the woman for making Hotch be suspended.
Okay it's ovbousley Reid, because in the preview for the next epiosde you see Reid in the cabin calling out Gideon's name, also in the preview I also heard Reid say "I keep calling Gideon but he never answers".
I looked at the name that was written on the letter and I am almost certain it said Spencer or Reid
it can't be Hotch because he mention's Hotch's name in the letter, it can't be Pretiss becasue she's quitting (Yes that stupid bitch is FINALLY leaving WHOOT!), it's not J.J because she's not close to Gideon, it's not Garcia (Do I have to tell you why?), it's not it's not morgan because he apoligised in the letter and he's got reason to apoligise to Morgan, but the apolagie is for Spencer becasue he knows Reid has abandonment issues and he promised to protect Reid.(Reid and gideon have a father/son thing going on) So becasue he's leaving Reid he wan't to give him an apology for breaking that promise.
Also I think there is a chance that 1 of 2 things will happen.
1. Reid finds Gideon dead on the floor, then as he cries he spots another letter addressed to him and inside of the envelope he fids a necklace or something that was very special to him that he's giving to Reid.
2. Reid finds Gideon just in time and fights for controll of the gun.
(or)
3. as they fight for the gun Reid get's shot and passes out, Gideon, freaks out about what has happened and shoots himself. Reid then wakes up and cries after seeing his mentor dead, he then whispers in his dead mentors ear "good bye"
Prentiss is not really leaving, at least not permanently. I am very glad she'd rather quit than betray Hotch, though. Way to go, Emily! We knew you were a stand-up girl.
If I was writing this show, Strauss would find herself NEEDING the BAU to save her precious son. But I'm evil like that.
And somehow that phrase, "I keep calling Gideon but he never answers," strikes me as about the saddest words in this whole series. So far, anyhow.
The case may have been dry and lagging, but the letter made this an acceptable episode. I think my favourite line was: "I knew it would be you who came to the cabin to check on me. You must be frightened - I apologize for that."
Right then, I was like, 'It's a letter to Reid." And of course, my mind immediately went to it being his suicide note. But now, I'm not sure. I think he might just be leaving, and the focus on the gun was him leaving his gun and badge behind (and, thus, his old life). I think it would be a better story if he died, though, and Reid found him. That would be a terrifically sad piece of television, and make something useful out of Mandy Patinkin's annoying tantrum.
I was so happy to see Reid coming off the plane at the beginning - I felt like I was seeing an old friend from college that I hadn't seen in YEARS! I liked it - the changes and tweaking they did to Doubt were detectable if you knew what to look for, but pretty darn smooth - I swallowed it all hook line & sinker, with no coughing or gagging. Two thumbs up to Ed Bernero & Co. :)
And I THINK I know what is going to happen, but it was a bit too obvious - that's what they WANT us to think, so it will probably be a surprise, but since it was maybe a rush job, maybe what will happen is exactly what we think will happen, or they know we know they wouldn't do something that obvious and so they go ahead and do something that obvious because we wouldn't expect it . . . I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT TO THINK!!! ARGH! ACK! YEEP! (you know it was a good episode when it gets me YEEPING)
I thought the episode was great and while I was incredibly sad throughout all of it I am happy with it. Losing Gideon. I don't know how I feel about him killing himself but finding him sure does give the Gube a chance to act his tiny ass off. I think next week is going to be super.
Anonymous said...
3. as they fight for the gun Reid get's shot and passes out, Gideon, freaks out about what has happened and shoots himself. Reid then wakes up and cries after seeing his mentor dead, he then whispers in his dead mentors ear "good bye"
No offense, but oh, yak. Gag me with a spoon. Romeo and Juliet much? as Buffy might say :) I know our writers will make this tragic without being banal or overdone, whatever happens to Gideon.
I'm starting to change my mind; I think maybe suicide might be a better way to go. The team really needs new beginnings right now, after Frank, after Rafael and his two freaky pals, etc., etc. We've had it with people goin' nuts, and we've had it with people walking away. What we need now is a slate wiped down, something that brings the group together instead of splitting them up and making trust issues leap up all over the place like popcorn. Especially with this Strauss @^$!&* trying to axe Hotch and morph Emily into a Trojan horse.
--the first Lisa, changing her screen name after being succeeded by two other Lisas
I've been thinking exactly like you frogdawn! Gideon committing a suicide and Reid finding him would be too obvious! But then again... the more i think about it the more i get confused. I liked the start of the new season anyways!
One thing that I really did not like about this episode was the scence where the second killer is stabbing her victim. I know it was a short scene, but it seemed to go on and on. It made me uncomfortable. One or two stabs would have been sufficient. It just seemed too much. We got the idea long before the scene ended.
Lee,
Re: the hero thing... my comment wasn't about acting or even the character's end.
While it's hard to know people's motives, I was thinking of it from the persepective of Mr. B or whoever wrote the episode. If I were in their shoes, I think I'd have a hard time letting Gideon die a hero because it would give Mandy a satisfying conclusion for his final performance. That sounds spiteful, but I don't think Mandy deserved to have that satisfaction and wondered whether CM execs felt the same and that's why there was no hero's ending option. Just a thought. Plus I think the suicide fits with what has happened to Gideon in the past.
gideon killing himself is not at at all consistent with his character he had a breakdown
thats not the same thing as being a suicide risk
Did anyone else notice that there was a lot more use of music in this episode than those of the past? I wonder if there was a particular reason for that.
hmm perhaps the music was meant to invoke a somber mood?
nice catch dani
I'm torn between suicide and just disappearing.
The first impression is of course suicide. But then, when does CM make things so obvious? Very rarely does that occur.
But I do see him as somebody who would have gone over the edge with everything he's been through and go through with it. He is a sick man inside, a broken soul. So I could see it coming to that.
But my initial reaction personally was that he would just leave his gun and badge and disappear, without a trace. And that the letter was simply a goodbye. I also thought Reid as the person to find the letter, regardless of the circumstances of its find.
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