Criminal Minds: "Honor Among Thieves" written by Aaron Zelman who was also the Co-Executive Producer and is pictured above. Criminal Minds starring: Mandy Patinkin, Shemar Moore, Thomas GIbson, Matthew Gray Gubler, Kirsten Vangsness, A.J. Cook and Paget Brewster. Please use this thread for episode comments and spoilers.
**This is the original thread for the episode. Please add your comments here***
89 comments:
Just one thing. Loving the episode and Garcia makes me giggle.
I saw Gina in the conference room holding the cooler. Great job Gina!!
I liked this episode. Not as much as the other though. But what got my attention was that it seem like Emily wasn't or isn't very close to her mother. I liked the ending, when she asked her mom to dinner.
This episode was a bit confusing to me, and to be honest I don't think it was as good as the previous. Can someone please fill me in on why the man was kidnapped in the first place, and what happend at the end.
It was no a good episode. It was boring. I am sorry but we waited so long and it was horrible.
I did like this episode, but I'm slightly confused by the plot. Why did they kidnap her father?
I really liked Morgan's interactions with Natalya; he opened up way more than we've ever seen him before (which is actually really sad, considering how things turned out).
As for Prentiss... She doesn't like her mother much, does she? And she was particularly affected by this case.
What an utter disappointment. To wait so long since Ashes and Dust for a new episode and then have it be this aweful is terribly sad. What the heck happened?
Looked hard, but I obviously missed both Gina and Kris. Don't know yet what to make of this episode; actually, it didn't impress me that much. But maybe you guys could shed some light.
IT seems everyone is as confused as I am. This was not a good episode at all really, easily the worst one to date. I didn't follow along on what happend towards the end, and I still can't figure out what happend.
I did see Gina but no Kris and it was horrible. Probably the worst Criminal Minds to date. Jackson was good but that was it. Horrible show. Not worth the wait and not worth the time.
Ah where to start? I suppose at the end and work my way back. Since that is what's fresh in my mind. I like how Prentiss and her mother reconnect at the end. It was sweet. The bit before that was so powerful. I just adored it. As I said before Garcia totally makes me giggle. Especially when she's talking to Reid. It was too cute. The son was disturbing and so was Nat. Loved Morgan. I'm thinking Reid looked a lot better in this episode. He seemed more coherent and put together. Much like our old Reid. And he looked just too cute. Slow episode but a good one. Over all I give it an 8.3. NOt bad.
There was an underlying feeling of discomfort among all the characters from the start of the episode. Emily Prentiss was uncomfortable around her mother. Hotch was uncomfortable around both Prentisses. Gideon and Reid were in a position they are not usually in: they had nothing to do without specific case information. Usually they have the investigation materials provide by local police. They were fish out of water. Morgan had a least something to work on which was the victimology. He got part of it, but not, apparently what he really needed. It was as if he profiled a non-existent of fake family.
Organized crime groups do not easily give up information. They are extremely difficult for outsiders to investigate. It is very frustrating for anyone, much less the BAU to step into an investigation and make any impact. This seemed apparent.
As for the character of the Ambassador, I can see where Emily would be slow to bond with a group. She did not learn much from her somewhat distant mother. Boo!!. That is all we got to find out about Emily!
Garcia rocks as usual.
My local news station rather ruined this episode for me by playing a constant scrolling bar at the bottom of the screen warning of severe thunderstorms in the area. No kidding buddy, I can hear em. But I couldn't read the subtitles for the Russian because of it so I was pretty in the dark for most of the episode. And at one point they just flat out busted into the middle of my dear show for a breaking news story about a tornado :/
However from what I did see of the episode, the team seemed completely superfluous in this episode. They... didn't do anything. The entire story was carried by the guest characters (although 3 cheers for bringing back in the same guy from Natural Born Killer to deal with organized crime) and the team did next to nothing. JJ was nonexistant, as was Hotch. Emily had a stunningly minor role given how much it was touted that this episode featured her mother. Reid does seem to be getting back to normal though.
Maybe it was because I didn't understand what was going on, but the episode just fell flat for me. It wasn't interesting and it didn't give any real insight into Emily's life beyond "Hey, she's not that close to her mommy".
Here's to hoping that rewatching it without the pain-in-the-behind news channel interfering will raise my opinion of it.
I liked Kate Jackson and her scenes towards the end with Paget. I am in shock at the slow pace of this episode. It went on for a lifetime. I was counting the minutes until it ended. No way in hell that Aaron Zelman wrote this script because he is too good a writer to produce this flat an episode.
This episode was really slow. This is the first episode i have been disappointed with. Most of the guest stars were a letdown, and the team did nothing except stand around. They didn't interact much. Garcia's scenes were the best by far. They ended was a little surprising but weak. What happened to our normally solid and amazing CM?
I did not hate the episode. I liked it but it is not gaoing on my favorites list. Did the man lose his ear or what? That was confusing. Everyone in the unit seems so naive. How could they not be familiar with the Russian mob? Maybe I need to rewatch it again. I would give it a B-.
I did like Olga whose fan club has joined us in fandom friendship this week. She gave a good performance and Kate Jackson was very good. Paget was very good tonight. I saw Gina but I think I missed Kris completely.
Erin said...
This episode was really slow. This is the first episode i have been disappointed with. Most of the guest stars were a letdown, and the team did nothing except stand around. They didn't interact much. Garcia's scenes were the best by far. They ended was a little surprising but weak. What happened to our normally solid and amazing CM?
Just because the show had one off epsisode, doesn't mean it's the end of the world. The show is still good. The show can't have perfect episodes all the time.
Personally, I liked it.
I am sorry but I LIKED it. Not every show has to be high tense moving drama. I liked the pace for a change and I thought the subject matter with the mob was interesting. I thought Paget was great and Olga was very good. No wonder her friends love her so much. Sorry folks but I loved it.
Don't be sorry because I liked it too. I have some questions about the body parts and ears and the ending in general but I liked it. I thought Kate Jackson was wonderful too.
Reid was awesome tonight as was Prentiss. Kate Jackson turned out to be the pro we all thought she would be. I would give the show a C+.
Wow......thanks everyone for keeping an eye open for me. The show doesn't come on here in LA for another hour. I will have to watch it since I know exactly where to look for myself.
I'll be back after the show!
Oh. Dear. Listening to Jill chat this script up so much (I had no spoilers, just her total enthusiasm over it), I have to wonder wtf happened? I guess it goes to show that what's in a script doesn't always make it to the screen.
Because this ep was anything but exciting or suspenseful. In fact, as I posted on my LJ, I said something during the show tonight that I have never said during an ep of CM: "I'm bored". Yeah, I've had a couple of eps I was kinda *meh* about after...but nothing like this.
Garcia was wonderful tonight but really, she was the only highlight in what is a rather dismal episode. And I hate saying that about my favourite show, really, I do. Most times when I look at the clock during the show, I can't believe how fast the time has gone...not tonight.
I know they had to explain things, but normally, they do it better, integrate it into the story much better.
As for Prentiss and her mother? Well, I think Prentiss still feels (and acts) like a teenager around her mother. She's in her 30s and doesn't realise that her mother, like any other human being, is subject to doubt? Obviously there are issues on both sides of that relationship...but well. It has made me no more interested in Prentiss as a character. I thought Kate Jackson was great and that the character was interesting as well. I wonder if they'll ever bring her back?
I guess every show has it's bad eps, but usually with CM, even eps I'm *meh* on...I can rewatch. I doubt I'll rewatch this one very much.
Hopefully, the next new ep will be better. I live in hope...:D
I didn't love it and I didn't hate it. It was not one of our stronger episodes but that is okay. They can't all be "sit on the edge of your seat" episodes. We learned more about Prentiss tonight and her relationship with her mother. Kate Jacksson proved herself to be the huge talent we expected her to be. We had a few moments with our Gina as Agent Sharp. Olga was very good. I had never seen her before and I was impressed. All in all the episode gets a B from me. I am satisfied with it.
This episode was different than most of the others. The first half was slow, but the pace did pick up in the last 20 minutes.
The team was kind of non-existent in the episode, they didn't really work together and the hype about this being a Prentiss-centric episode didn't really live up to the hype. There was a really nice scene at the end with Prentiss and her mom which I thought went a long way to explain her character. Prentiss was genuinely shocked that her mother admitted to self-doubt, and her mother said she always had self-doubt, but never let it show, because diplomats didn't do that. It explains why Emily doesn't often show her emotions, be it shock, hurt, horror, etc., because she was taught to keep her emotions to herself.
Garcia was great--I loved her calling Reid "Junior G Man" and Reid repeating it back because he didn't know what it meant! She also rocked when she got the bank information and passwords.
Hotch and JJ were pretty non-existent in this episode, but Morgan got some development--much more than tackling unsubs and kicking in doors, although he did get to kick in 2 doors this time! You got to see him spend time with who they thought was a victim and explain about victimology and talk to her.
After Morgan, Gideon and Reid had the most air time talking to the local FBI agent and the Russian crime boss, and Gideon figured most of it out, you could see it in his eyes and when he smiled.
I like it when they are all working more as a team, but it wasn't a bad episode, just not what we are used to from CM.
I think that when we get spoilers and an episode really gets hyped, we are bound to be disappointed when the episode doesn't live up to those very high expectations. We have come to expect really great things from CM, and when an episode is merely so-so or good but not great, we feel let down.
I liked it and I thought Morgan was great. He is so smart and he played her like a violin. Of course she screwed him in the end but I thought he was great. The episode was alright.
I've thought about it a little more, and it isn't the "slow pace" that bothers me, it's the lack of real interaction between the team members. Yes, it's frustrating watching them standing around with their hands tied, essentially, and that's an interesting avenue to explore, how to solve a case when you can't get enough information to do your job. But Morgan and Gideon, with Reid as a side dish, are the only ones really working the case.
Garcia's playing her usual Tech Goddess role, and doing it well, but Hotch and J.J. are pretty much office-bound when they appear at all, and Prentiss is mostly having awkward interactions with her mother. I didn't feel an estranged or uncomfortable mother-daughter relationship there -- I didn't feel any relationship whatsoever. The two of them delivered their lines well, but I felt like they were acting outwards, to an audience, not with each other. It could have been splitscreen for all the connection I felt between them. Not having seen Kate Jackson act before, I can't judge her against any standard, but I'm not sure I could really tell you what I think of her now, either. I thought she was ok.
I liked Morgan's scenes with Natalya; those were the best parts of the episode. He nailed her profile in all the little ways, but he missed the really big picture.
I enjoyed this episode and the plot twists; it was an interesting look into the Russian mob. I loved how Gideon never did tell the mob boss his name and Garcia as usual was a scream. And Reid seems more like his old self, what a relief. I really didn't want to see high kidnap drama from him this week. I didn't expect to like Kate Jackson's character, but I did. All in all a better episode than I expected.
I liked the slower pace and I liked that the BAU members had to be educated about the Russian mob because frankly they can't always know everything. I liked the under the surface tension between the Ambassador and Hotchner. I really liked the scenes with Prentis and her mother. Prentiss went from being highly tense around her to almost feeling empathy for her in the end. I really liked the episode.
Someone please get me excited about seeing this episode. I messed up on recordning it, and have to wait till Sunday, when its on another station. Right now I dont know what to think, I was excited to see it but after the reviews, I am still excited as its new, but I not as excited anymore.
I would give it a B+. Instead of a head in a box this time we got a finger and a ear. I liked the slow pace. It can't always be rabid dogs and families on fire. I liked the characters and the guests were great.
love2teach, you should get excited for it because it does give us character insight. We get a nice look at Prentiss's interaction with her mother, and some really great scenes with Morgan. (Ostensibly, the episode was about Prentiss, but Morgan stole it.) And because really, sometimes continuity in the form of recurring guest stars is just awesome.
I really agree that Morgan owned the show. His insights on cases is so valuable and he is so good at sizing up situations. It reminded me of how important he is to the team. Garcia was also wonderful.
Apparently, my last post came off a little harsh. So let me expand on it. The plot was good...the potential was just not fulfilled. There was also less "psychology of the crime" in this episode, and I missed that. There were moments when you'd be on the verge of really getting into the episode...and then the moment passed. I liked what they tried to do with Prentiss. I liked that Reid wasn't a jerk (that was getting a little old). Again, I was surprised by the ending (i.e. I was not predictable), which is a very good thing. Editing the episode together in a different way may have made the episode seem less slow. I still love the show, especially the characters. One disappointing episode doesn't knock CM from the number 1 spot on my favorite TV shows list. Occasionally you get an off episode. This one was that episode (at least for me). Maybe it seemed worse to me because I've really enjoyed the rest of this season so I have probably subconsciously set higher standards.
Back again.
I don't really think this was a bad episode, but it wasn't an on-the-edge-of-your-seat episode like so many have been. It was more subtle, not hurried.
Raphael0877--I loved it too that Gideon never told the guy his name! That was great!
One more thing to remember. I think that Andrew Zelman probably wrote a great episode, but as with most TV shows, things get changed as they are being filmed and scenes end up getting cut. That may be the reason so many were disappointed with the episode.
Just my two cents.
Garcia was wonderful. Morgan was sharp as a tack. Reid looked like his old self. Prentiss seemed so easy to like tonight. Hotchner and AJ almost didn't exist but Hotchner definately doesn't like Prentiss' mom. Kate Jackson and Olga were really wonderful. No sign of Kris anywhere which was so disappointing. We saw a little moment of Gina. The story was different than usual and the pace while slow kept moving. I liked it. Not going on my top 5 list but that is okay. I still liked it. I liked finding out the complex nature of the Prentiss' relationship. I feel as though I am justifying myself which I know I do not need to do with you guys. So simply put I liked it.
Sorry, one more thing... cedrine reminded me. I thought Hotch was going to go completely ape*!@% when, after he's had a conversation with Prentiss about her political connections and how he wants them to stay far away from the BAU office, her mother waltzes in and dumps a case in their laps. But no! It's "thanks a bunch" and "please use your connections to help us" and "yes, Emily, go help your mom." ?? What I think he should be saying is "I knew it!" and "we'll take the case because these people have nowhere else to go, but don't ever do this again." In a nicer way, of course; I know Hotch is as good a diplomat as Emily's mother is.
And P.S.: some diplomats completely hide their emotions, from foreign diplomats with whom they're negotiating something tricky in a volatile situation. But FYI, that isn't what most of them do on a daily basis. Diplomats are people just like any others, not some repressed alien race. They might or might not be emotionally distant. They tend to hide their emotions in the same situations in which other adults who have learned how to live in the world do. And often they can do it without distancing themselves from their children. They might work long hours, which could cause some distance, but actually, this doesn't shed any more light on the difficulties between Emily and her mother. My best guess right now is that the Ambassador was never there when Emily was growing up. She's probably never seen her mother doubt herself before because she's rarely seen anything at all.
And I'm sure that this doesn't just come from Emily's mother being a diplomat. The Ambassador mentioned that she was without any assignment at the moment and had been for a while, but she still seems to be in the same line of work, with all the same connections. This means to me that she's a political appointee, not a Foreign Service Officer who has worked her way up to Ambassador from the bottom. If she was ambassador to Moscow, that's a certainty. Which means she was probably a Congresswoman or close to the President in some other political position of power. So the problems probably began then, before she ever became a career diplomat.
I have to admit, unfortunately, this one is my least favorite ep to date.
It wasn't *bad* (even a "bad" episode of CM still tends to entertain me) but I was frustrated by a bunch of things--the lack of much development on the various character arcs (even Prentiss, and this seems like it would have been a good time for some clues as to her backstory beyond, she's lived all over the world, speaks several languages, and has a strained relationship with mom [we knew that already]--and PB is too good of an actress to have been limited to walking around looking big-eyed all ep), but I didn't connect with the victims at all.
That said, I *adored* the strained interactions between Hotch and the Prentiss family, and the conversations between Gideon and the thief-in-law.
I liked it but it would seem I am in the minority because I liked it very much. I liked seeing them not know everything for a change. I liked seeing them learn about situations they are not used to. I just liked it.
I think I need to watch it again. I have questions that need to be answered about body parts. I liked the episode. Not my favorite but they all can't be my favorite. A bad night with CM is better than anything else on tv and this was not a bad night. It was just different than we are used to. I thought Kate Jackson was incredible and her scene in the beginning was very tense between her and Hotch. He was pissed off and still held his tongue. I love him for his self control. Prentiss was softer and showed much more empathy than ever before and I really liked that. I am really starting to like her alot.
The show start out slow, pick up in the last moments. I like morgan explanation of victumalogy(sp). That did it for me, I never catch all of the big word means before this one. Otherwise, it not the best ep this season but I guest having one not so good show a season is ok. I did not hate it though.
I wonder did they know that the russian killed the woman and man at the end. or does the fbi really egnore such things. Gideon had to know they were going to get rid of them.
I would have like to seen them try to save them, or stop the russian from doing business as usually. that chase would have been interest to me.
The daughter doing this to her father because she felt slighted by their mourning her dead brothers was cold. I loved how Morgan sized her up and knew she was trying to be something she wasn't. I was impressed that he knew the shoes and handbag were phonies. I liked the episode. I would have liked more depth to the relationship between Prentiss and her mother but they only have about 45 minutes so I guess they did the best they could in such a short time. Anyway I liked it.
I would have liked to see an more in depth analysis of the relationship between Prentiss and her mother. I agree there was a soft side to Prentiss tonight and I liked that. I would like more information on the history between Hotch and the Ambassador. Obviously he is not her greatest fan. I thought Morgan was outstanding tonight. Reid looked and acted like his old self again. That was a really big blessing to see. Garcia hacking the bank records was priceless. Gideon not being an expert on something was a breath of fresh air and made him more human. There could have been more plot exploration but all in all it was a decent episode. I would give it an A-.
I did something tonight that I have never done before. I channel surfed to see what else was on during the episode. I have watched the show since day one and never even been tempted to do that.
I wouldn't say this has been one of my favorite episodes so far, but I didn't hate it as some folks obviously did. It did move slower than other episodes and it seemed to lack the sense of teamwork amongst the characters that rest of the episodes have, maybe because they were all in different places and quite frankly, the characters didn't have alot to do but wait and use what little info they had to try and develop a profile.
There were some great moments. Garcia calling Reid "Jr. G-Man" was hysterical as was his reaction to the remark. I also love that Gideon never gave the mob boss his name; it reminded me of how dealing with unsubs is compared to a chess game. By keeping that info from the mobster, Gideon retained a sense of power over him--"I know who you are, what you've done, and all about your life but you don't even know my name."
And to try and answer the question about why the father was kidnapped for those that are wondering: The way I understand it, the mobster's son and the man's daughter hatched a plan to kidnap people, knowing that the mobster would pay the ransom from the mob fund in order to keep it quiet that he even had a son since having families was forbidden by the thieves code. The mobster also paid the ransom because he didn't want his bosses finding out he was losing control over his territory. The daughter resented her father for being so deeply involved in his grief for his sons that she seemed to no longer matter to him. As Morgan pointed out, there were no pictures of her after her brothers' death. It was if she didn't exist. She was was also angry because he had promised they would be prosperous in the US and they weren't as rich as she thought they should be. She wanted to give the impression of being wealthy so she wore the designer knock-offs that Morgan pointed out. The plan was to run off with the mobster's son and start a new life with all the money they had gotten from the kidnapping scheme but the mobster decided to kill her and his own son in order to regain control of his organization. The bags that were being thrown into the water at the end were probably the cut-up remains of the doomed lovers. Hope that helps!
If I had to grade this episode I'd give it a B minus--not fantastic but slightly above average.
Well everyone, I just saw the episode and I thought it definitely had a good ending. I didn't expect that at all.
I did see myself twice in the episode. It would have been very difficult if you didn't know where to look. Hopefully slashgirl can get a shot or 2 from the screencaps. We'll see.
Shout out once again to Scott David and Gina. This is the episode that got me may SAG eligibility.
Hi the show was good,but real slow. Kate Jackson was good, but what was wrong with her right hand it seemed to shake alot. Was that for real or just for the show?
I did not dislike the episode entirely but one does get the feeling that the out come of the story would have been the same whether the BAU team had been there or not.
I liked the episode. Didn't love it but I liked it. I thought Shemar Moore and Kate Jackson did great jobs.
I looked really hard to find Kris in this episode and missed him. But that's OK. I just excited about him getting the opportunity to work with some wonderful people and them offering him the chance for a start with his acting career. Thanks to people like Scott David, Jill and others who support Kris.
Sigh.
My power went off an hour before the show, and came back on ten minutes after I was over. That blue streak you may have seen in the sky over Lake Erie? That was me swearing.
It was slow, ill defined, void of any character development for the Ambassador and honestly just a real boring episode. Pains me to write that.
We all had very high expectations for this episode. Ashes and Dust was great and the entire before Ashes was stellar so we assumed that every other episode for the season would be that great.
Honor Among Thieves was not a ground breaking episode but it was a good episode. It was a normal episode that you would find on any other tv show. It was just "good". Was there more they could have done with Prentiss' mom....of course. Could they have explained Hotch's obvious distain for her....of course again and the list of could have could be very long.
That said it was what it was. It was an alright episode from an outstanding show. One clunker now and again is alright with me. It did have some shining moments. Garcia was outstanding as always and we had more of her in this episode than the last few. Morgan was also outstanding sizing the false sense of money and contentment in the household. The quotes were good. Reid looked great and seems to be back to his old wonderful self.
Glass half empty or half full?!
I must not have been watching the same episode as everyone else because I liked it. I liked it very much. Kate Jackson was wonderful as Prentiss' mother and I hope we see her again soon on the show.
I am still numb this morning from the episode being so bad. It was aweful. A really crappy episode and sorry to say it but a waste of an hour out of my day. It was the worst episode we have ever had and I would personally love to know what the hell happened.
I erased it from tivo since I would never watch it again in a million years. Very disappointed with CM for letting us down like this.
It was an okay episode. Not that bad.
It doesn't bother me to be in the minority with a few of the rest of you who have already commented.
I actually really liked the show. Kate Jackson was terrific. Our whole cast gave great performances. The storyline was interesting. I liked it!
I never agree with Maura but I am this time. I liked the episode and adored Kate Jackson. I loved the new and warmed up Prentiss. I liked the whole episode.
I missed the first ten minutes. I was stuck in traffic. I was okay with the episode. We have very high expectations which was already said in a previous comment.
You did not miss much Steven.
I would give the show a B if we are handing out scores, which it seems like we are.
Disappointing.
I didn't really enjoy this. The plot didn't seem to make sense and there was very little character development. I am warming to Prentiss, but we could have seen a bit more.
I think the main reason I didn't like this was that it was just way too static. Gideon and Reid spent most of it standing in the street pondering. It lacked the team interacting and the team is what makes the show.
Having said that, I really liked Garcia's sections (who doesn't?) and the scene in the restaurant. Reid - eat borscht, it has vegetables in it.
I just hope the next ep is up to the usual standards.
Garcia and Kate Jackson were the best things in the episode. I really liked having Kate Jackson on the show.
I did not love it or hate it. I just thought it was okay. Not sorry I watched it and they will be a better job next time. This one must have just gotten away from them.
Since there was a problem from the get go getting fans to adore Prentiss, I wish this episode would have at least given us more to her backstory so we had more reason to love her.
I kept waiting for that moment to come and it never did. Disappointing!
Reminder:
It's not that end of the world because of this one episode.
Not all episodes are going to be solid, they can't be top notch all the time.
Some people need to learn that.
I agree with anonymous. One bad apple doesn't ruin the whole bunch.
I enjoyed it knowing our Jill had been there...that made it very SPECIAL! I need to rewatch tape tonight, because I missed some of the context due to cleaning-up from my cats "upchucking" and emergency family call. TONIGHT IS TAPE REWATCH NIGHT!
Reminder:
It's not that end of the world because of this one episode.
Not all episodes are going to be solid, they can't be top notch all the time.
Some people need to learn that.
I agree.
I didn't see it yet, but I'm still excited to see it. Not all episodes are going to be super fantastic-full of drama (although yes, most have been till now...*G*...but there are other shows in which people didn't "do" a whole lot either, and they were still great eps).
It seems that while it wasn't full of action, there were a lot of great moments in it, and a lot of character development, so IMO something has been achieved, regardless of what was left out. :-P
Actually, character development was minimal, the story was confusing and rudimentary, and the cute moments, although present from time to time, cannot make a good episode out of a bad one. There was more exposition than usual, which as someone has already said would have been ok if it had been more subtle and better integrated into the story, instead of sitting there like a Greek prologue. The team had very little to go on, but except for Gideon, they seemed to be wandering around in the dark. Not the astute and efficient profilers we know. And yay for Morgan the Only Profiler. What happened to the team, guys? It seems the forces of evil have mastered the art of Divide and Conquer.
It's true that every episode can't be like The Big Game/Revelations. But that doesn't mean the show has license to suck. They set the standard themselves; they should hold to it.
I do not even usually post comments but I will today but just to say that I agree with what Lisa just said. You can sugar coat it any way you want to but the show sucked last night. It was really bad. Worse than bad. I almost feel like we are all owed an apology. I still love the show and I will always watch it but it was just bad last night.
I guess we will all need to agree to disagree since there seems to be a wide difference of opinion with this episode. I thought it was okay.
I am going to rewatch it tonight and then figure out how I feel about the episode. Maybe I missed something. Maybe it was too subtle for me. I love our show so I will sit through it again.
anon said:
It's not that end of the world because of this one episode.
Not all episodes are going to be solid, they can't be top notch all the time.
Some people need to learn that.
And some people need to learn to leave a name with their comments.
You know what? I do know that. But when I've watched a show for almost two seasons and they have an episode that tanks and badly? I am going to comment on it. They say they want feedback, good, bad or ugly. I give the kudos when it's a great show and I give my honest opinion when I think it wasn't a good ep.
Up until this ep--I've enjoyed every ep as I watched it broadcast--some I'm not as fond of after rewatching, but this was honestly the first time I've had any sort of issue with watching an ep during its first broadcast.
To my mind and sensibilities, CM didn't meet their OWN established standard of quality for this ep. Others may disagree with that. But just because I, or anyone else for that matter, think it was a not so good ep? Doesn't mean we think it's the end of anything, let alone the world.
And I haven't noticed anyone saying it's the end of the world--some folks hate it, others love the ep.
When you come to expect a certain level of quality from a show, when they don't deliver (for the first time in, um, 42 eps?) you tend to be a little shocked and disappointed. To me, this is the weakest ep of CM to ever air.
But I'll be tuning to catch the last four eps of the season, no worries there!
Congratulations Kris on getting your SAG eligibility! No matter what's said about the episode, it will always be special to you for that.
Another thing I found interesting that I forgot to mention is something Emily said. When Hotch mentioned her mom thought she could cut through the red tape to get the Russian bank records, Emily said, "Well if anyone can do it, Ambassador Prentiss can" not "my mom can." She seems to have compartmentalized her relationship with her mom: there's the Ambassador and then there's just mom. Maybe that would explain Emily's hatred of politics and what she said to Hotch in "Sex,Birth, and Death". Her mom may have done some things as part of her job that Emily hated and couldn't accept that her mother would do so she began to think of that political person as "the Ambassador", not "mom". I hope Kate Jackson comes back and we get more insight into their relationship.
I'm sorry so many people dislike this particular episode so intensely. Like I said before, it's not one of my favorites but I didn't hate it either. I think the problem might be that it felt like the characters and therefore the actors weren't used to their fullest potential. Hotch really didn't do anything, JJ was barely in it, Reid just kind of stood around and memorized a list of tattoos and their meanings, and they basically gave Garcia a "cheat sheet" to get into the Russian banking system instead of having her solve it on her own. Morgan had the most developed scene with his victimology profile and Gideon had a couple of good scenes with the mob boss. Prentiss' scenes with her mom showed there's tension between the two but we figured that out from SBD; there was nothing about why there's this tension. There also a feeling of a lack of teamwork; in "Lessons Learned" even though the team is split up between Cuba and DC, they still felt like a team because everyone was doing something while in this episode, it felt like some of the characters were just left hanging.
I have debated since the show finished airing last night about what to say about it and I still am at a loss for words. We have several more episodes this season and the season as a whole has been fantastic. :)
Now I am very confused, who was in Cuba or DC? I thought they were in Baltimore and Quantico. Did I watch the wrong show or did I miss something?
Lisa: She was referring to a different episode as an example. I thought the show was alright.
this might be a bit random, but did anyone else notice how reid kept following every sentence he said to morgan with "man"?
it felt so akward both times, but it made me giggle also.
I had a little time to think this over. I don't think the subject matter would be exciting no matter how it was done. Russian mobsters are unfeeling and cruel. They don't respond to any type of emotional pleas, and one thing our team is good at is getting people to respond using an emotional connection. Like the guy said what they know about profiling in America does not apply to them. It is very telling of how we must deal with the mobsters in the US, but it did not make for interesting TV.
I seem to have missed the explanation as to why Natalya contacted the Ambassador. Just because Natalya knew someone who knew the Ambassador does not make sense to me. Especially since she was in on the killing and torture. Why would Natalya draw attention to the criminal activity since she must have known where her father was?
I will watch again, and maybe I will see more detail. Who knows?
Did he lose his ear or what because in the end I saw two ears?
Lisa:
I want to ask a favor of you. Since I'm already Lisa on here, and it might get confusing, could you be lisa __. Initial, number, something. Please?
You betcha, Jill, the season has been fantastic! Not many series can claim as many excellent episodes as we have been blessed with in "CM". (Fiction or real life isn't IN HIGH DRAMA every minute; or I would have been dead way before my 66 years!!)
From you, I mainly look forward to hearing your comments (when ready) as to how the actual airing compared to what you saw being filmed. Responses to some of your "check list items" from yesterday.
Personally, I did enjoy the episode--especially our cute Garcia! I love just seeing each and all of our BAU Team in various forms. THEY ARE GREAT JUST TO LOOK AT! I look forward to viewing it again tonight and may have further comments.
Happy evening!!!
Back again:) I'm trying to express what disappointed me about the episode and what I liked about the episode (basically, I'm trying for constructive criticism).
I've now watched the show 3 times. It has grown on me slightly. There are some really nice subtleties throughout the episode, which make the episode more intriguing the second and third times I watched it. Unfortunately, there are also a lot of continuity problems. Again, the story had potential but it just was presented poorly. The flow was slow and choppy. I loved Gracia's scenes and most of Morgan's. I did find it odd that Gideon and Reid never assisted with the victimology. Instead, they just stood around waiting for what? I also thought it was odd that the wife was never profiled. She was a victim also. I still think the ending was a nice surprise. I do however think it was strange that they had apparently kidnapped several men for 100+ K before they took her father. Or did they demand less money from the others? I'm still confused about that part of the ending. Maybe, if I watch it a few more times, I'll figure it out.
Also, let's not get mad at each other because we disagree. We all have different opinions and that is no reason to be rude.
I rewatched it too and I still give it a C but that is okay. I have been really enjoying the show this season and I did last season too. This episode had some things I liked in it but just moved too slow for my personal taste. I agree with the people who commented that the show has to try different things now and again and so they tried this type of story and it just wasn't for me. No harm and no foul. I am still going to be glued to my tv for all the rest of the new shows. I love the show.
After having a few days to diget this episode I have a couple of more thoughts.
1. Kate Jackson was great in this episode. She always was my favorite "Angel" and she hasn't lost her acting acumen one bit. She also looked fantastic.
2. I found it very sad that Natalya was basically forgotten by her family after her brothers died as children. It shows in many societies how much more male children are valued than female children.
3. In the episode, Natalya said that she did this to get more money so she could have the things that she wanted, but I think underlying all of that was that she really wanted her parents love and acceptance not as a second class citizen but as their cherished daughter.
This is a sad comentary on the idea that money can buy happiness and that she felt devalued because she was not born a boy.
does anybody remember the name of the bank?
I loved this episode, and I've analyzed it a lot. But does anyone even read these comments anymore?;-;
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